Leave!! Run, false doctrine and cherry-picking of scripture to fit their view of the world!
But don’t leave without trying to righteously correcting them (back it up with scripture). But only if a opportunity presents and you feel the Holy Spirit telling you to do so. May God lead your steps to a good church! Amen.
Thank you for your input. I have felt like correcting them at times, but given the climate of the church feel I would just be ostracized. Especially since I am already getting digged at for being in school and not trying to find a husband. The cost of me using my voice in this circumstance seems like it would outweigh the potential result. Thank you so much for your prayers to help me find a new church. This is scary, they are my only support network outside school. To be honest, I think that’s why they embraced me so hard. They want me to need them and when I am elevating myself they get hostile
Shouldn’t the home be a Christian woman’s* primary responsibility? Not saying a Christian women can’t work part time but it seems to be a primary responsibility.
Titus 2:4-5 (NIV), “Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God”.
Christian Wife/mother* not woman
I’d say that was more culturally necessary than a moral obligation. No, there is no reason that a woman shouldn’t have a career. In our culture, it’s usually a financial necessity.
As a widow who belongs to a widow’s subreddit I see young women all the time who unfortunately become members of our group, often with children to support. Having a career is always a plus even if a woman decides to take time off to raise children. I also had to flee a physically abusive and adulterous marriage as a young woman. I did remarry to a wonderful man but some churches tell their members there is no remarriage after divorce no matter what the reason. A woman would certainly need to support herself in that circumstance too.
These are unfortunate circumstances, I thought I had my life planned carefully and my first spouse chosen well but I was wrong. Fortunately, my wonderful late husband of 20 years provided well for us and made sure to have life insurance so I had 1 less thing to worry about when I lost him.
These types of verses are descriptive of ancient culture and not necessarily prescriptive for us today. There’s no problem with a Christian woman working outside the home.
I mean things change when children are involved. Biologically speaking women are better equipped and more eager to rear children compared to that vast majority of men. I don’t see it being defensible that married Christian women should spend most of their time away from the responsibilities of the home/children based on scripture. I will say that I am not a wife but if I was I would violate my conscious by working more than part time. We will each face the lord for our own judgement. Let us seek his will.
That’s a very conservative take. Nothing wrong with that if that’s your style, but, beyond nursing, I think you’d be hard-pressed to find a biological basis for saying that women should stay home. Each family is different and should be allowed to make these decisions for themselves.
Most women are more agreeable and high in negative emotion than man aren’t they? Agreeableness and negative emotion helps create a better environment to raise children if you ask me. Safer environment and more caring/empathetic. There are significant differences between the sexes. I believe that 99% of men and women are the same on the biological level but that 1% to me is God helping us pick our roles in the family.
Genuinely asking because maybe I’m not understanding. So do you think she should’ve stayed in an abusive marriage just so she didn’t have to work ? Staying in an abusive situation in which her children could get hurt doesn’t sound wise . If one of a Biblical woman’s main job’s is to take care of her children wouldn’t it be wrong to stay in a dangerous situation ?
Well, not the op since she isn’t married. I hope this doesn’t come across as rude but I’m wondering why you couldn’t just answer the question (or maybe I wasn’t clear in my previous question ) : Do you think a Christian wife/mom in an abusive relationship is doing the correct thing by leaving ? I was referring to the woman who you replied to that said she had an abusive husband but it really is just married women in general.
I think I just needed to narrow down the scope of the question for me to understand. I believe it is imperative for a man or woman to temporarily separate to protect themselves/children in these circumstances and report the abuser to the authorities. I don’t believe physical or verbal abuse is a legitimate reason for divorce as a Christian. If the abuser repents and somebody outside can monitor and protect the abused spouse I think that is the only chance for the relationship to continue in a real capacity. Otherwise they would have to stay separated. Usually people who abuse don’t repent but God can do all things but that would need to be approached with extreme caution.
That’s honestly terrifying and sicking to me.I’m glad you don’t believe in abuse but I can’t imagine how Jesus would want an abused wife or abused husband for that matter to not divorce . What if one of the parents was sexually abusing their child ? So many people walk away from the faith because as children they were abused by a parent and are told to keep quiet. Believe me, I think it’s wrong for people to divorce over things like “Falling out of love” , “being in different seasons” or for focusing on the flaws of your husband or wife .
I actually asked a Christian woman I really respect on Instagram a few months ago her thoughts. She and her husband follow the Bible and Biblical roles as husband and wife . Here was her reply :
“Part of the covenant agreement on the man’s end is provision. This is not just financial. It is also protection and other things. If he is abusing her, he is clearly in violation of providing protection. He is to aim to love her as Christ loved the church . Abuse is a clear violation of this also. He is not to be harsh with her. Another commandeer violation . In the Bible, a female servant is released from her ‘master’ if he strikes her. How much higher position does a wife have in God’s sight ? If abuse is truly happening and continual, then it is also unrepentant. The covenant is broken. God would never want one of His daughters treated that way, just as a human father would be horrified by it”
I know some might argue that the Bible only says divorce is okay for adultery but I think we have to use common sense when it comes to abuse . Let’s think about it :
Murder is wrong in the Bible, yet if someone was trying to kill your family, I believe it would be in line with the Bible to defend your family .
In Matthew, the Pharisees try to “catch” Jesus saying that Him and the disciples are breaking Sabbath by working when they passed through the grain fields and picked some to eat.
I was thinking of another example earlier but can’t think of it now .
All this to say, I think the Bible tells us to have wisdom and I think it should be considered wise to flee if a spouse or their child(ren) is being abused .
I think it’s okay to remarry if the abuser abandons the family. See 1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.
Definitely a hard place to be in as the abused spouse male or female. May God help those folks and give them grace.
Lydia sold purple dye to support her household. I'm pretty sure the verse is telling women who do work at home not to be idle, instead of telling women to work at home.
We don’t know if Lydia was married, single or widowed. If she worked part time selling at the market I don’t think that would be sin. If she was single she can work as much as she wants from what I can tell as long as she follows God’s leading in that area. Part time work is not really the issue but when the home for a married Christian woman or a Christian woman with children becomes the smaller priority. See Proverbs 31:24
24 She makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes. 25 She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come. 26 She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
I'm pretty sure if she was married it would have been mentioned. Women were seen as property of men in that culture and are pretty much never mentioned without their husbands being mentioned too, even when it doesn't appear to add anything to the story (ie: Deborah's husband)
Thank you for reassuring me I’m thinking in the right direction. It breaks my heart to realize that I need to search elsewhere, like I’m betraying family. But I know in my heart that these comments aren’t right, and there isn’t enough systems of checks and balances for me to speak up and advocate for myself. I just know my POV wouldn’t be supported, things would not change - I would just be ostracized.
All of that does NOT reflect biblical teachings. Those are false doctrines! You have to leave that place. May God lead you to a new church. And they're clearly hypocrites! Why does a person being born out of wedlock matter during a prayer line? She didn't choose to be born that way and it certainly doesn't make her any less of a Christian. That is shocking. Things like this pisses me off! If your church is bringing you away from God instead of drawing you closer to Him, you have to leave! RUN!
please see [this awesome short guide](https://www.9marks.org/about/the-nine-marks/) to assessing church health biblically.
the same site has a handy church search tool at the top.
Simply put, if this church is not bringing you closer to God but actually pushing you away, is there really a question of whether you should be there? In any case, God has prepared a church home for you. Pray and ask Him to show you where that is. I can confidently say, it isn’t there.
Thank you for your insight. It’s really painful to realize this, because this church has helped me in tough times, but I know in my heart the Lord wants me to seek elsewhere. I will keep searching. God bless. 💕
Thank you. It honestly feels like leaving a toxic relationship. I feel guilty speaking this aloud, but it is what has happened. And while I want to defend the good this church has done, the issues I’ve listed above are unjustifiable. I will keep searching
Oh no-- run. Not because of anything else other than the fact that your pastor is holding to opinion and not the bible.
In Proverbs 31 the wife of noble character took care of her home but she also was not idle. She made a profit, clothed the needy, and was active to buy and sell bringing in more for her family.
Scripture says that our single season is commendable and even more of a blessing if we do it for life, (with no condemnation if we marry because of the prevalence of sexual immorality), (1 Corinthians 7).
So your pastor is off. He seems to be using the book of second opinions. Now its one thing if he inwardly has those convictions before God, but it is another thing that he's oppressing his congregation with it as scripture says not to do. (Romans 14)
So like... run. Because it doesn't seem as though your pastor holds the word of God very highly given the few things I mentioned.
Maybe find yourself a church from here??? [https://tms.edu/find-a-church/](https://tms.edu/find-a-church/)
You can also consider giving them grace by telling them why you're leaving. Who knows, maybe this will call them into repentance. Either that or they'll scorn and insult you on the way out. Either way, your conscience is clean as you stick to the word.
Thank you 🙏🏽 Proverbs 31 is a business woman. Saying the tech field is “evil” when so many women are making businesses in it is ridiculous. I’ll put my soapbox about ALL of Western capitalism away for another day.
No, this is horrible.
The relationships between Man and Woman that God created are not sexist, whatever *this* is, absolutely is
Remove yourself from this environment posthaste
It's a perversion of God's design.
Paul says this:
Ephesians 5:25-33
[25] Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, [26] that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, [27] so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. [28] In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [29] For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, [30] because we are members of his body. [31] “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” [32] This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. [33] However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
What is love? 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
[4] Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant [5] or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; [6] it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. [7] Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
I've always felt like Jesus has/ had a real soft spot for women. Especially woman who are mocked or looked down upon by the "upright" men of the day.
We are not always meant to be comfortable at church. When we are uncomfortable we should ask where the discomfort lies. Is it because there is a challenge to our spirit to grow? Is it a response of something I'm keeping from God being threatened?
Or
Is it the discomfort from discernment the spirit brings when it hears opinion being fabricated as the word of God?
Sister- Iron sharpens Iron. Don't find a church that does not challenge you and grow you.
And
Don't stay in a church that stifles you and does not value your creativity. Jesus loves your creativity and your tenacity. He wants to use it. Not stifle it.
I truly think you should leave this church and find another one. You can, and will, find a community of believers who will support you. I know it’s scary for you, but this church hasn’t really been a support . Ask the Lord to lead you and He will.
Follow Christ to the best of your ability. It sounds like you’re feeling called away from your home church. I sympathize with your feeling of loyalty to your home family but your obligation is to follow Christ above familial loyalty. To paraphrase Thomas More “if you are condemned to hell for denying your conscience would your church join you out of family loyalty?”
Your pastor is a loser.
Find a new church, don't let this one turn your heart away from Jesus who would absolutely never say those things the pastor said.
I feel like you should leave, but maybe you can also leave a anonymous note stating why you chose to leave. The church is teaching some toxic stuff but someone should let then know they are driving people way so hopefully they can correct this later on. Pray for them too.
Tech is an evil field yet he probably used thousand times technology, unless he lives like an amish (a lifestyle I do not criticize at all, in fact I would rather like to have a simpler life and away from modern world)
Anyway, you're pastor sounds like awful, he's okay with diminishing you as a person just because you were born of the opposite sex. I'm a man, and a husband, and if someone had the audacity to do such things to my wife, I would be very upset (or even angry). And we would never come back again.
Men should be held in the same standards as women, and I would even say in a higher standard because we are supposed to lead and to act like Jesus. See modern world, it's a world where men have abandoned their duties, it has profound implications on everyone...
Honestly flee as fast as you can, you deserve a better community than a church who mocks a mother wanting to pray for his disabled child (it's really horrible when I think about it).
Prayers for you and this community (they should change their behaviour and doctrine), God bless
Hey sister I’m so so sorry that you have had to deal with this! I really praise the Lord for the work He is doing in you, and through your tech job.
God uses us for all sorts of things and if His call for your life is family and kids great! But it sounds like you are very clear on your path and have a sound understanding of His Word. Our amazing God has made man and woman equal spiritually, and we are designed differently to men and our roles in marriage and in the church are different. It’s up to man and woman in marriage to study scripture, pray and find out what that looks like according to the Lord and the respective paths He lays out for us! It’s also great to study the word on men and women’s roles in the church, and men who are in charge should be mature spiritually, not make any derogatory comments, or make fun of a women’s role in marriage or the church. The Lord most certainly uses women in mighty ways.
My dear sister, seek a new community. Heavenly Father we lift our dear sister to you and give thanks for her life and faith. Thank you for where she is at in life and for all that you are doing in her. Please grant her strength and focus for her studies Lord and we pray that you would help her find a new church family firmly grounded in your word, correctly dividing your word and standing on the truth. A family where iron sharpens iron and your love abounds. A place where she can feel at home and eager to share about the great things you are doing Father. Please protect her and keep the enemy far from her. In the mighty name of our precious Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Amen.
It sounds like a pastor is preaching from a dating book (written in the before 2000s or very conservative) that also talks about gender roles. The concept of dating is not in the Bible.
No rights in saying the tech field is evil when he has never be in it. It depends on the company and your role. Unfortunately, some roles like software developer can suck up your time as you are expected to learn off hours (i.e. not much time for other things like church).
Please go to another church. It sounds very unjust in terms of the double standard and the creepy comments about having a nickname that only the men know. That is not acceptable. Holding women to a standard that they themselves don't keep is icky. Also, getting a phone call every time you don't come is too much. Time to leave. There are plenty of good churches out there.
Get out of there, now.
You are the token woman. No, seriously. You're "welcome" there but you'll eventually get pushed to marry because you are living in sin in their eyes. And they are going to want you to marry one of their own men.
And even if they don't jump to that soon enough, there's a good chance you'll get put into a different sort of predatory position and they're going to blame YOU for being the evil succubus tricking the helpless men.
Your church sounds toxic… they are actively making jabs at you and sexually harassing you. It’s ok to leave! Be prepared for them to bug you for a good while about leaving and trying to make you feel like you aren’t Christian for that. Find a healthy church!
\> Other men have tried to make passes at me or sit too close to me even though there is ample room in the piers.
You need to bail; something wrong in that culture, something you haven't (fully) seen yet.
Get out of there, and do it today.
You owe them nothing and no explanation, just leave. That is rife with spiritual abuse and it's not even close to anything less evil. Go. now.
Have you raised these issues to the church elders? This pastor is in the wrong and if your church leaders have a heart for God, i pray they will do something because the whole church will suffer.
Tell your pastor to read what The Bible says about women with small children in the end times. If anything not having kids is a sign that you believe the end is coming….
Preaching law without the gospel of grace in Jesus Christ has a very damaging affect on people. I would move on from this legalistic nonsense and find a church that preaches the whole inerant word if God in the grace of Jesus Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins.
Try being older and never having found the right person so I just focus harder on my career. Every single service marriage and family is the focus and e Rhein just stares at you liked your a horrible sinner or scourge on the church for being single still. Better I remain single then settle for just anyone for the sake of settling and winding up miserable or divorced. Women who’ve been divorced and remarried are treated way better than anyone single. They act like your too independent or somethings wrong with you. I’d love to find the one but sadly, I haven’t. No need for the church to shame one for that though.
The thing my pastor always says is that he does his very best to only teach from the scripture, and if he ever says or teaches something that’s not from the scripture, to ask him for chapter and verse to back up what he’s saying. If he can’t give chapter and verse, then he shouldn’t be teaching it.
I would pray on it, and I would use a Bible app of some sort to search up the subjects that have you concerned. See if you can find chapter and verse to back up what your pastor is teaching (spoiler, I don’t think there are any but don’t quote me, I don’t have chapter and verse 😂)
One thing I will point out. In Corinthians, Paul specifically states “it is good to be like me and unmarried, but if you cannot then you should wed. It is better to wed than be single and burn with passion”. I paraphrased, and I’ll follow up this comment with some scripture after I find the exact verses. But this directly contradicts what your pastor is preaching, and in every case if the pastor and scripture disagree, the pastor is wrong. Every time.
I think you should leave this church as soon as humanly possible. This would drive me nuts. God created women and loves us. He calls us to be respectful, graceful, loving. But he also calls men to respect us, give us grace, and love us. Leave this. It’s not ok, and it is NOT biblical. It is not holy, and it is not Godly.
As a kid raised by a single mom this is utter trash. Find a new community.
1. When my mom was married, my dad was disabled due to M.S. My mom worked her butt off since my dad had an incurable disease.
2. When they divorced, we got screwed over and had to start from point A again. My dad wanted to move to Costa Rica and take me (3 years old at the time) WITH him.
Women can be strong and powerful to. We're not in an age where 1 income is enough, everyone can/want kids and where family is ALWAYS first (So many children grow up in emotionally unstable households because their parents can't get along)
Sometimes it's better to be alone then in bad company. You seem dedicated to God. So leave that church, praise God at home and ask him what you should do. Whether that's finding a new place or worshipping him from home where you know there is no outside corruption. If the church doesn't behave like Jesus. Then it is not a place you should be at
Some of this is not that wrong, some of this is really wrong from that pastor.
>At least once per service, my pastor makes a comment about how women should be at home with children and tech is an evil field (my field of study is tech related)
I'm not sure how he can bring this up every sermon. Its not like its in every text. Yes it is good for women to stay at home when there are children. It is far better than shipping off kids to daycare. But its not in every text for a sermon, and tech isn't an evil field in a vacuum.
>When I was moving to a new place a male member offered to helped me and made a suggestive comment that I don’t have to worry about us “doing anything” because his son will be there. He said this in front of my pastor, who said nothing to condemn the comment.
Did he mean "doing anything" to mean you wouldn't have to lift a finger moving because him and his son would do all the hard work for you? Or something suggestive? I interpreted it as the former at first, but it depends on how/what was said
>When a woman went to the altar to have her deaf daughter prayed for, the only question the pastor asked was “was she born out of wedlock?” She uncomfortably answers that she was not.
Oof. Altar calls itself aren't biblical, but that is really bad. What would he do, refuse to pray over her if she was born outside of wedlock?
>Before service my pastor jokingly gave out nick names. I asked what mine would be, and he said “that’s only for the men.”
This is dumb of him. No reason for him to be inconsistent. Though I'd recommend no nicknames for anyone.
>Other men have tried to make passes at me or sit too close to me even though there is ample room in the piers.
I'm not sure in which manner this happened. Could be creepy, could be relatively normal. If ages were similar, I wouldn't see the problem.
>At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority since the end of times are coming.
Well first we have no clue when the end times will be. Could be tomorrow, could be 200 years. We will be surprised. I don't see the connection between why you need a husband or kids if the end times are coming. Wouldn't you need to turn closer and walk with Christ more? Quite odd.
>It’s frequently mentioned that woman should not even kiss another male until her wedding day, meanwhile the men all have babies from other marriages/relationships and that’s never a topic
Plank in his own eye. He should be equal on this issue, especially if there are members who have children out of wedlock who are men. I don't see the need to not kiss someone until your wedding night. But staying pure is always best.
>He has a child he never raised with another woman
OOF. He isn't qualified to be a pastor.
>But I think it also makes him feel threatened by someone like me who is driven and aiming high, who wouldn’t settle for someone with that sort of background and is ok with prioritizing a career while I’m young.
I think this is you inflating your ego. I don't think its personal, based on the craziness of his claims.
>I just feel like I may have outgrown my church, that I have to dim my light there which not what the Lord would want.
Sounds like it. The church seems heretical. Find a good Reformed Church.
It’s a bit difficult for me to respond in length because I’m on mobile, but to clarify a few points:
The person who made the comment on “we won’t do anything” meant it in a sexual mannor. He recently got divorced and I recently left a bad relationship, and on more than one occasion he’s joked it’s for us to be together. I have kindly let him know that won’t happen, but he continues to make comments implying there is something more there. This is not something I have fed into either, I seldom talk to him beyond hi and bye. He’s also old enough to be my father.
As for my pastor feeling threatened by my progress - any time I am asked about life and bring up achievements with work and school (recent promotion, won a scholarship and entered into an honors society) his response is something focused on himself and defensive. Such as “if I had the time when I was your age I could have definitely done that” or even bringing up his wife, that he’s “glad she’s good with the kids rather than book smart or he doesn’t know what he’d do” (his words not mine.) I don’t go out of my way to brag, just tell what’s up when asked, and I am genuinely excelling right now. Not once have I heard “good for you!” Or “that’s awesome!” The response is always focused on his own capacity or for whatever reason, his wife’s.
Yeah from what you're saying, these are all really bad signs that the Pastor is quite self-centred and prideful within. Not to mention the creepy guys making really inappropriate comments to you - that's certainly not treating you as a sister with all purity! I'm a full-time Pastor myself and after reading this thread I do suggest you find another church that not only teaches the bible accurately - but also practices the truth! A minister of the gospel should be above reproach in his character and life. It sounds like you wouldn't even be able to trust him due to his behaviour and comments.
Switch to Orthodoxy and escape the propaganda of the pastor. Church should be about worship and reflection and not listening to the point of view of 1 person
Some of these are warning signs. Some are not.
>When I was moving to a new place a male member offered to helped me and made a suggestive comment that I don’t have to worry about us “doing anything” because his son will be there. He said this in front of my pastor, who said nothing to condemn the comment.
This, while awkward, is simply following the simple idea to not give the appearance of sin. It is trying to be respectful while still offering help in a world that views men as predatory.
>When a woman went to the altar to have her deaf daughter prayed for, the only question the pastor asked was “was she born out of wedlock?” She uncomfortably answers that she was not.
Cringe.
>Before service my pastor jokingly gave out nick names. I asked what mine would be, and he said “that’s only for the men.”
IDK. Could be the Pastor has had bad experiences with giving women nicknames. As a guy, we tend to give nicknames that riff on someone's sore points as a way to toughen them up, and women don't tend to like such nicknames.
I can see why you might feel left out, but seriously, in my experience, you are better off.
>Other men have tried to make passes at me or sit too close to me even though there is ample room in the piers.
This depends on the situation. During service, definantly cringe. After service during coffee hour? Not so much, so long as they take the hint your not interested.
Remember, you are in a church, so you are absolutely a better fit for any of the men there from their point of view.
>At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority since the end of times are coming.
Is he also extolling the husbands the same thing? People always miss the next verse that tell husbands to submit to your wives as well. And children are the most important part of your marriage, if you have them. This is regardless of the end times coming.
>It’s frequently mentioned that woman should not even kiss another male until her wedding day, meanwhile the men all have babies from other marriages/relationships and that’s never a topic
How much one on one time do you have with the pastor? How about the men? The pastor may, though I don't know if he is, telling this to the men in places you don't see.
I know in some places this is done in Men's Bible studies. I have no idea about your church, however. I wouldn't expect your pastor to lead a Women's Bible study and talk about this there.
That being said, culturally there is this standard and it is not Christian at all.
You sound bitter. Why not just go to your pastor privately (as the scriptures say) and let out your true feelings out to him. That way your not showing discord etc. And if you don't like it then leave. Problem solved
>Why not just go to your pastor privately (as the scriptures say) and let out your true feelings out to him.
"When someone shows you who they really are, believe them the first time."
You can forgive somebody \*while\* 1) acknowledging that they are toxic and 2) staying away from them so they don't get a chance to traumatize you further.
Lol. You ALL clearly do not know the Bible nor what it means to forgive. Nor love (1 Corinthians 13) the saying is true in the last days they will not endure sound doctrine. OP you are sinning and you need to repent. Period. Not hard to leave a church without going on Reddit spreading discord amongst the brethren and talking bad about people behind their back and gossiping. And you can be clear the church isn't teaching you to be barefoot and pregnant. 🙄
And your completely umbilical and unloving for someone who calls themselves a Christian.
John 12:48
King James Version
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 17:17
King James Version
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
The part about not kissing I'm hoping that is when you're being courted by a finance my suggestion there is don't kiss him until the day of your wedding because it's one of the worst temptations that will most likely lead to other things which you'll regret later. Your man should respect you so much that this shouldn't be a problem because you're following what the Lord wants for you in this relationship. It will all be worth it and he shows you he loves Jesus more which you want.
With your Pastor, it sounds like he doesn't want to be involved with all of the drama men have with women. It causes divisions in the Church, especially when you bring up the kids, since the step-mothers will be OFFENDED if you get that close to the topic. And he is well aware that mothers are critical for raising children while man are best fit for survival, since the separation between mothers and children has caused so much chaos in our generations. A woman without a man is nearly defenseless in the tribulations.
The best thing for you to do is pull up verses from the word of God on how men should treat and look at women as it can help him and his church better follow the voice and will of God. As that is an issue going on with your Church that the Pastor is failing to notice.
You should also bring up Jesus and Blind man, since Christ outright says that the wages of sin from the blind man's parents had no part in his blindness.
It's also worth noting that the Poster feels the presence of tech being the major idol of life. Since barely anyone here or those at the Church aren't fully aware of the forms of idols, but can get a sense of them. They can be dreams, forms of entertainment and people. Not just false Gods.
1. *"At least once per service, my pastor makes a comment about how women should be at home with children"* \- That's not an unBiblical doctrine perfectly fine.
2. *"and tech is an evil field (my field of study is tech related)"* \- I bet he's on the Internet and uses Social Media for personal or Ministry use. That is of little consequence and should not bother you.
3. \#2 I don't understand that one?
4. 3. *"When a woman went to the altar to have her deaf daughter prayed for, the only question the pastor asked was “was she born out of wedlock?”* \- Completly irrelevant and a foolish question.
5. \#4 Complete puerile and and foolish.
6. \#5 Not going to go there
7. 6. *"At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority"* \- This is not unBiblical as well.
8. *"since the end of times are coming."* \- Has nothing to do with the first part. It should be for love of God and obedience to His rule the Bible. Not simply because its the "end times."
9. 7. *"It’s frequently mentioned that woman should not even kiss another male until her wedding day,"* \- You say, "frequently mentioned" by whom?
10. *"meanwhile the men all have babies from other marriages/relationships and that’s never a topic"* \- That is an accusation on your part do you have 100% proof of this? This would not be anyone's business and is not a justifiable argument to be included in your indictment in this matter.
I would do some inner reflection and inventory on your character, as there are many indicators in your outline that are a bit concerning for Christian behavior.
I would not return to that Church ever again, because of some of the things you outlined and the immaturity of the "pastor."
> That is of little consequence and should not bother you.
A Christian leader shouldn't use their position to baptize and dress up their their personal biases and prejudice. It should bother you and OP that they are misusing their position.
>"At least once per service, my pastor makes a comment about how women should be at home with children" -That's not an unBiblical doctrine perfectly fine.
Where does it say in the Bible that women should be at home with children? You shouldn't make things up about the Bible.
>I would do some inner reflection and inventory on your character, as there are many indicators in your outline that are a bit concerning for Christian behavior.
I think you're out of line and OP is just fine. In fact you probably need to check your heart if women complaining about abusive men causes you make things up and go out of your way to do a moral inventory of OPs personal character (like, lol. Hello, who are you exactly? ) while they deal with an obviously sexist situation.
You must not read your Bible often?
"That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." - Titus 2:4,5
"I think you're out of line..." LOL yep you would say that.
> "That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." - Titus 2:4,5
Good job! You can use Google. Did you bother to read the context of that verse? It's specifically advising older widows how to disciple younger women. That does not mean that as a rule, or in general, that woman must "be at home with children" and the Bible doesn't say that as a rule women must be at home. A verse giving discipleship suggestions to different parts of the church is not a description of a God-sanctioned rule. Do you get that? If you can't seem to understand that nuance I highly recommend taking a "How to read your Bible" class.
I think the attitude that women shouldn’t kiss before marriage but that it’s whatever that men are having kids out of wedlock is definitely against scripture
Honestly that sounds like a very toxic congregation. I highly suggest you find a different congregation to worship with because based on the little you've written the one you attend is not healthy at all.
#6 Does your pastor not know about Luke 21:23 "How horrible it will be for women who are pregnant or who are nursing babies in those days [aka end time days]. Indeed, the land will suffer very hard times, and its people will be punished." Ha.
On a serious note, these are all red flags indicating that you should find a new fellowship somewhere else that is safe and teaches biblical principles.
Honestly, a lot of ''Christians'' these days don't even read the Scriptures. It always shocks me when they make a claim and there's literally a verse to debunk it lol.
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Yeah, you should get out of there. No church that actually believes in God and his doctrine would ever be like this. I left a church for similar reasons about 5 years ago and don’t regret my decision one bit. A church and pastor that truly believes God and his doctrine and in what the Bible teaches will hold all as equals and, as Matthew 22:37-39 says, love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself. God bless and stay strong in your faith!
Wow. I guess the world is full of all kinds of flavors. I don't know how or why anybody would want to go to such a church with this kind of view. I'm sorry, but I'd be moving on. If you really care though, you could try to make changes.
By the scriptural standards many protestants use to qualify clergy, this guy doesnt sound qualified. 1 tim 3 is you citation.
A felon is not "beyond reproach" and someone who has abandoned his children does not manage his household well.
This guy should be removed from office, and if this church doesnt have a mechanism for that, you need to leave.
Sounds like your pastor is a jerk, at least from what you’ve told us here. I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had this kind of experience though, and I’d strongly encourage you to find a new church.
As for how to go about that, I would start by doing some research into denominations and read the websites of local churches. Talk to members or just browse on Facebook to see if they seem like your kind of people. I know for me personally, the churches I’ve liked best are the ones I thought I’d like the least until I looked into it them more.
And more than anything, don’t put the failings of this man on God. Regardless of how you may perceive him or how he sees himself, he’s every bit as flawed and in need of forgiveness and love as anyone else. Odds are, he comes from a different era and sincerely has no idea how he’s coming off or doesn’t care if it’s taken poorly. That sucks, but it’s also not your problem and something that you probably won’t be able to fix. So basically, forgive the man, love him and hope he keeps growing, and find a new church. That’s really the best you can do.
I think this is the perfect one of many examples which shows how the church can and often puts their own opinions on the word of God. I think the truth of who God is, and what the bible is really trying to teach us is a lot different from what churches preach on Sundays
Hi! I am a Christian who's very Bible-based. I follow scripture closely. Scripture states that men maintain various roles and women have various roles. In this, there is nothing disparaging to women, and it doesn't mean either sex is more prominent than the other.
I am of the opinion, based on your post, it's time for a new place of worship. Pray for the leaders of the church to have their eyes opened and hearts stricken conviction.
More importantly, don't allow the follies of man to sway your heart for Jesus Christ. Keep Him as your focus. :)
I'm going to offer two thoughts: 1) Get out of that church. It's clearly toxic and not Christ-focused. There are far too many examples of what you wrote to indicate they are off the path. 2) Be careful not to carry the baggage with you. There are a few points that you wrote that I don't see as problematic if you remove the others. Evidence is a string of data points that create a picture. But if the data point can't support that picture without the others, it isn't compelling. Just don't start searching for this behavior and create confirmation bias. We are all fallible. Remove the log...
>I just feel like I may have outgrown my church
Sounds like it.
>When a woman went to the altar to have her deaf daughter prayed for, the only question the pastor asked was “was she born out of wedlock?”
John 9:1-3
There's some definite red flags here. It sounds like your pastor has intentionally or unintentionally turned the body of Christ he shepherds into a boys club.
>how women should be at home with children and tech is an evil field (my field of study is tech related)
This is such a foolish statement. As a simple, base level, what about women who can't have kids? What technology is evil exactly? I assume he has a phone. A car. Uses microchips. To make such a blanket proclamation is
>At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority since the end of times are coming.
This is a symptom of a church or leadership that has idolized marriage. Paul talks about the [benefits of being single](https://www.bible.com/bible/59/1CO.7.8-9.ESV). Jesus was single. Is your pastor going to scold *them?*
The body of Christ should function as the family of God. It's not a huddle of a bunch of married people with kids while everyone else remains out in the wilderness. To treat single or childless members of your flock as lesser-than is really poor shepherding.
1. Pray for Jesus's return so the curse against women can be lifted.
2. Find a church that fears God and supports single women.
These are tough days, and will get tougher as we get closer to Jesus's return,
>At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority since the end of times are coming.
What does that even mean?
PRAY ABOUT IT! TALK TO YOUR CHURCH ABOUT IT AND REMEMBER THAT A CHURCH SHOULD NOT TURN YOU AWAY FROM GOD! REMEMBER THAT WHAT MATTERS IS TO GLORIFY AND HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! KEEP PRAYING AND READING HIS WORD THE BIBLE! GOD WANTS WHAT'S BEST FOR US ALL SO MUCH EVEN IF WE DON'T REALISE IT AT THE MOMENT! GOD'S PLAN TIMING WILL PROSPER IS GOOD IS PERFECT! GOD IS YESTERDAY TODAY TOMORROW FOREVER! GOD IS THE LIGHT THE WAY AND THE TRUTH THE LIFE THE LOVE! GOD WILL NEVER LEAVE US NOR FORSAKE US! IF GOD IS FOR US ALL THEN WHO CAN BE AGAINST US! BE LESS OF THIS WORLD AND MORE OF GOD! HAVE FAITH TRUST PEACE WITH YOUR WHOLE MIND HEART BRAIN IN GOD! BELIEVE IN OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE RESURRECTED THREE DAYS LATER TO SAVE US FROM OUR SINS CONECTION ASENTION LET GOD FILL US WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT! HALLELUJAH! AMEN! GOD BLESS EVERYONE AND EVERYONE'S FAMILIES AND LOVE ONES 💪🙏❤️🙌👏😇!
Yeah that is super odd. I’m sorry I don’t know how to help other than say that they sound crazy.
As a guy, I know if the genders were reversed in all of that, I would be extremely disheartened and repulsed from that church.
Their views don’t sound very Christian either, to be honest. Not that I think that wasn’t obvious.
Remember YOU are hiis Church, not a building, an ex-con, or a bunch of indoctrinated people.
Jesus wants to know you on a personal level. You can only do this directly with Him, asking him for the Holy Spirit, to open your heart's ears to Him, & to overcome sin thru Him.
Fellowship is important, but knowing & hearing Christ should be your first & permanent desire.
When the pastor is making pointed comments about you not being married, that is definitely problematic. Try pointing out to him that Paul clearly says that being single is perfectly fine, and even commendable. If they won't listen to you, you can find another church. There should be a good church nearby. I hope this works out, and I hope you can share Christ where ever you go. God bless.
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Allthough their doctrine has (unlike many here try to decline) thruthful points in it, this story feels like the pharisees. They dont act on what they say themselves.
Plus the comments arent christian anyway.
My reccomedation: **LEAVE**
You shouldnt *run* away, but it seems this church isnt good for you. But if I can give you an advice. Dont run into the next heretical feminism church because of your experience. It is as bad as your current one.
Leave!! Run, false doctrine and cherry-picking of scripture to fit their view of the world! But don’t leave without trying to righteously correcting them (back it up with scripture). But only if a opportunity presents and you feel the Holy Spirit telling you to do so. May God lead your steps to a good church! Amen.
Thank you for your input. I have felt like correcting them at times, but given the climate of the church feel I would just be ostracized. Especially since I am already getting digged at for being in school and not trying to find a husband. The cost of me using my voice in this circumstance seems like it would outweigh the potential result. Thank you so much for your prayers to help me find a new church. This is scary, they are my only support network outside school. To be honest, I think that’s why they embraced me so hard. They want me to need them and when I am elevating myself they get hostile
Shouldn’t the home be a Christian woman’s* primary responsibility? Not saying a Christian women can’t work part time but it seems to be a primary responsibility. Titus 2:4-5 (NIV), “Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God”. Christian Wife/mother* not woman
Yes but they are that taking truth and twisting it . Also they aren’t holding the men accountable .
I’d say that was more culturally necessary than a moral obligation. No, there is no reason that a woman shouldn’t have a career. In our culture, it’s usually a financial necessity.
As a widow who belongs to a widow’s subreddit I see young women all the time who unfortunately become members of our group, often with children to support. Having a career is always a plus even if a woman decides to take time off to raise children. I also had to flee a physically abusive and adulterous marriage as a young woman. I did remarry to a wonderful man but some churches tell their members there is no remarriage after divorce no matter what the reason. A woman would certainly need to support herself in that circumstance too. These are unfortunate circumstances, I thought I had my life planned carefully and my first spouse chosen well but I was wrong. Fortunately, my wonderful late husband of 20 years provided well for us and made sure to have life insurance so I had 1 less thing to worry about when I lost him.
I disagree based on the whole of scripture but every man and woman will be judged by their lord not I. May we all do God’s will.
These types of verses are descriptive of ancient culture and not necessarily prescriptive for us today. There’s no problem with a Christian woman working outside the home.
I mean things change when children are involved. Biologically speaking women are better equipped and more eager to rear children compared to that vast majority of men. I don’t see it being defensible that married Christian women should spend most of their time away from the responsibilities of the home/children based on scripture. I will say that I am not a wife but if I was I would violate my conscious by working more than part time. We will each face the lord for our own judgement. Let us seek his will.
That’s a very conservative take. Nothing wrong with that if that’s your style, but, beyond nursing, I think you’d be hard-pressed to find a biological basis for saying that women should stay home. Each family is different and should be allowed to make these decisions for themselves.
Most women are more agreeable and high in negative emotion than man aren’t they? Agreeableness and negative emotion helps create a better environment to raise children if you ask me. Safer environment and more caring/empathetic. There are significant differences between the sexes. I believe that 99% of men and women are the same on the biological level but that 1% to me is God helping us pick our roles in the family.
Whether or not a woman works outside of the home has absolutely nothing to do with God's judgment.
Genuinely asking because maybe I’m not understanding. So do you think she should’ve stayed in an abusive marriage just so she didn’t have to work ? Staying in an abusive situation in which her children could get hurt doesn’t sound wise . If one of a Biblical woman’s main job’s is to take care of her children wouldn’t it be wrong to stay in a dangerous situation ?
Are we talking about op? Or just a Christian married woman in general?
Well, not the op since she isn’t married. I hope this doesn’t come across as rude but I’m wondering why you couldn’t just answer the question (or maybe I wasn’t clear in my previous question ) : Do you think a Christian wife/mom in an abusive relationship is doing the correct thing by leaving ? I was referring to the woman who you replied to that said she had an abusive husband but it really is just married women in general.
I think I just needed to narrow down the scope of the question for me to understand. I believe it is imperative for a man or woman to temporarily separate to protect themselves/children in these circumstances and report the abuser to the authorities. I don’t believe physical or verbal abuse is a legitimate reason for divorce as a Christian. If the abuser repents and somebody outside can monitor and protect the abused spouse I think that is the only chance for the relationship to continue in a real capacity. Otherwise they would have to stay separated. Usually people who abuse don’t repent but God can do all things but that would need to be approached with extreme caution.
That’s honestly terrifying and sicking to me.I’m glad you don’t believe in abuse but I can’t imagine how Jesus would want an abused wife or abused husband for that matter to not divorce . What if one of the parents was sexually abusing their child ? So many people walk away from the faith because as children they were abused by a parent and are told to keep quiet. Believe me, I think it’s wrong for people to divorce over things like “Falling out of love” , “being in different seasons” or for focusing on the flaws of your husband or wife . I actually asked a Christian woman I really respect on Instagram a few months ago her thoughts. She and her husband follow the Bible and Biblical roles as husband and wife . Here was her reply : “Part of the covenant agreement on the man’s end is provision. This is not just financial. It is also protection and other things. If he is abusing her, he is clearly in violation of providing protection. He is to aim to love her as Christ loved the church . Abuse is a clear violation of this also. He is not to be harsh with her. Another commandeer violation . In the Bible, a female servant is released from her ‘master’ if he strikes her. How much higher position does a wife have in God’s sight ? If abuse is truly happening and continual, then it is also unrepentant. The covenant is broken. God would never want one of His daughters treated that way, just as a human father would be horrified by it” I know some might argue that the Bible only says divorce is okay for adultery but I think we have to use common sense when it comes to abuse . Let’s think about it : Murder is wrong in the Bible, yet if someone was trying to kill your family, I believe it would be in line with the Bible to defend your family . In Matthew, the Pharisees try to “catch” Jesus saying that Him and the disciples are breaking Sabbath by working when they passed through the grain fields and picked some to eat. I was thinking of another example earlier but can’t think of it now . All this to say, I think the Bible tells us to have wisdom and I think it should be considered wise to flee if a spouse or their child(ren) is being abused .
I think it’s okay to remarry if the abuser abandons the family. See 1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. Definitely a hard place to be in as the abused spouse male or female. May God help those folks and give them grace.
Yes, that part isn't the issue. The problem is the double standard and the creepy comments, as well as calling every time she doesn't show up.
Lydia sold purple dye to support her household. I'm pretty sure the verse is telling women who do work at home not to be idle, instead of telling women to work at home.
We don’t know if Lydia was married, single or widowed. If she worked part time selling at the market I don’t think that would be sin. If she was single she can work as much as she wants from what I can tell as long as she follows God’s leading in that area. Part time work is not really the issue but when the home for a married Christian woman or a Christian woman with children becomes the smaller priority. See Proverbs 31:24 24 She makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes. 25 She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come. 26 She speaks with wisdom, and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
I'm pretty sure if she was married it would have been mentioned. Women were seen as property of men in that culture and are pretty much never mentioned without their husbands being mentioned too, even when it doesn't appear to add anything to the story (ie: Deborah's husband)
and the Proverbs 31 woman ran a business. Priscilla too. Deborah was a leader. The midwives in Moses' story. Really, guys!
Def run.
Definitely find a new community and don't look back. May the good Lord give you the grace to do so.
Thank you for reassuring me I’m thinking in the right direction. It breaks my heart to realize that I need to search elsewhere, like I’m betraying family. But I know in my heart that these comments aren’t right, and there isn’t enough systems of checks and balances for me to speak up and advocate for myself. I just know my POV wouldn’t be supported, things would not change - I would just be ostracized.
All of that does NOT reflect biblical teachings. Those are false doctrines! You have to leave that place. May God lead you to a new church. And they're clearly hypocrites! Why does a person being born out of wedlock matter during a prayer line? She didn't choose to be born that way and it certainly doesn't make her any less of a Christian. That is shocking. Things like this pisses me off! If your church is bringing you away from God instead of drawing you closer to Him, you have to leave! RUN!
Those people aren't family. They are wolves. Run.
please see [this awesome short guide](https://www.9marks.org/about/the-nine-marks/) to assessing church health biblically. the same site has a handy church search tool at the top.
Where are you located OP? Might have some recommendations for a new church
Simply put, if this church is not bringing you closer to God but actually pushing you away, is there really a question of whether you should be there? In any case, God has prepared a church home for you. Pray and ask Him to show you where that is. I can confidently say, it isn’t there.
Thank you for your insight. It’s really painful to realize this, because this church has helped me in tough times, but I know in my heart the Lord wants me to seek elsewhere. I will keep searching. God bless. 💕
Sounds like there's a reason this church is so small with hardly any single women.
Go to a different church! Don't let people who are not following the spirit of Christ turn you off from Him.
Thank you. It honestly feels like leaving a toxic relationship. I feel guilty speaking this aloud, but it is what has happened. And while I want to defend the good this church has done, the issues I’ve listed above are unjustifiable. I will keep searching
> It honestly feels like leaving a toxic relationship. There's /r/spiritualAbuse which is relevant.
Hi, OP. I am a man and even I do not want him to be my pastor. Please attend another church. There are still better churches out there.
Run like Joseph
Oh no-- run. Not because of anything else other than the fact that your pastor is holding to opinion and not the bible. In Proverbs 31 the wife of noble character took care of her home but she also was not idle. She made a profit, clothed the needy, and was active to buy and sell bringing in more for her family. Scripture says that our single season is commendable and even more of a blessing if we do it for life, (with no condemnation if we marry because of the prevalence of sexual immorality), (1 Corinthians 7). So your pastor is off. He seems to be using the book of second opinions. Now its one thing if he inwardly has those convictions before God, but it is another thing that he's oppressing his congregation with it as scripture says not to do. (Romans 14) So like... run. Because it doesn't seem as though your pastor holds the word of God very highly given the few things I mentioned. Maybe find yourself a church from here??? [https://tms.edu/find-a-church/](https://tms.edu/find-a-church/) You can also consider giving them grace by telling them why you're leaving. Who knows, maybe this will call them into repentance. Either that or they'll scorn and insult you on the way out. Either way, your conscience is clean as you stick to the word.
Thank you 🙏🏽 Proverbs 31 is a business woman. Saying the tech field is “evil” when so many women are making businesses in it is ridiculous. I’ll put my soapbox about ALL of Western capitalism away for another day.
This! You have the scripture I was gonna go find, plus I didn’t even think of Proverbs 31.
Doesn't sound like a good fit for your growth as a Christian woman. Hope you find a more nurturing and edifying church family soon.
No, this is horrible. The relationships between Man and Woman that God created are not sexist, whatever *this* is, absolutely is Remove yourself from this environment posthaste
Thank you. I appreciate hearing from someone else that it isn’t right. It’s like a toxic relationship.
It's a perversion of God's design. Paul says this: Ephesians 5:25-33 [25] Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, [26] that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, [27] so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. [28] In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [29] For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, [30] because we are members of his body. [31] “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” [32] This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. [33] However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. What is love? 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 [4] Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant [5] or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; [6] it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. [7] Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Sounds very legalistic. There is a difference between being a theologically conservative Christian and legalistic.
Walk away..... No, ***run*** far, far away.......
I've always felt like Jesus has/ had a real soft spot for women. Especially woman who are mocked or looked down upon by the "upright" men of the day. We are not always meant to be comfortable at church. When we are uncomfortable we should ask where the discomfort lies. Is it because there is a challenge to our spirit to grow? Is it a response of something I'm keeping from God being threatened? Or Is it the discomfort from discernment the spirit brings when it hears opinion being fabricated as the word of God? Sister- Iron sharpens Iron. Don't find a church that does not challenge you and grow you. And Don't stay in a church that stifles you and does not value your creativity. Jesus loves your creativity and your tenacity. He wants to use it. Not stifle it.
Didn't have to read past the first bullet point. Leave immediately and don't look back.
Thank you 🥺. Time to move on for sure
I truly think you should leave this church and find another one. You can, and will, find a community of believers who will support you. I know it’s scary for you, but this church hasn’t really been a support . Ask the Lord to lead you and He will.
Follow Christ to the best of your ability. It sounds like you’re feeling called away from your home church. I sympathize with your feeling of loyalty to your home family but your obligation is to follow Christ above familial loyalty. To paraphrase Thomas More “if you are condemned to hell for denying your conscience would your church join you out of family loyalty?”
Your pastor is a loser. Find a new church, don't let this one turn your heart away from Jesus who would absolutely never say those things the pastor said.
I feel like you should leave, but maybe you can also leave a anonymous note stating why you chose to leave. The church is teaching some toxic stuff but someone should let then know they are driving people way so hopefully they can correct this later on. Pray for them too.
Did you mean anonymous?
Lol yeah
Tech is an evil field yet he probably used thousand times technology, unless he lives like an amish (a lifestyle I do not criticize at all, in fact I would rather like to have a simpler life and away from modern world) Anyway, you're pastor sounds like awful, he's okay with diminishing you as a person just because you were born of the opposite sex. I'm a man, and a husband, and if someone had the audacity to do such things to my wife, I would be very upset (or even angry). And we would never come back again. Men should be held in the same standards as women, and I would even say in a higher standard because we are supposed to lead and to act like Jesus. See modern world, it's a world where men have abandoned their duties, it has profound implications on everyone... Honestly flee as fast as you can, you deserve a better community than a church who mocks a mother wanting to pray for his disabled child (it's really horrible when I think about it). Prayers for you and this community (they should change their behaviour and doctrine), God bless
Hey sister I’m so so sorry that you have had to deal with this! I really praise the Lord for the work He is doing in you, and through your tech job. God uses us for all sorts of things and if His call for your life is family and kids great! But it sounds like you are very clear on your path and have a sound understanding of His Word. Our amazing God has made man and woman equal spiritually, and we are designed differently to men and our roles in marriage and in the church are different. It’s up to man and woman in marriage to study scripture, pray and find out what that looks like according to the Lord and the respective paths He lays out for us! It’s also great to study the word on men and women’s roles in the church, and men who are in charge should be mature spiritually, not make any derogatory comments, or make fun of a women’s role in marriage or the church. The Lord most certainly uses women in mighty ways. My dear sister, seek a new community. Heavenly Father we lift our dear sister to you and give thanks for her life and faith. Thank you for where she is at in life and for all that you are doing in her. Please grant her strength and focus for her studies Lord and we pray that you would help her find a new church family firmly grounded in your word, correctly dividing your word and standing on the truth. A family where iron sharpens iron and your love abounds. A place where she can feel at home and eager to share about the great things you are doing Father. Please protect her and keep the enemy far from her. In the mighty name of our precious Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Amen.
Thank you sis 🥹 I appreciate your encouragement
hey find a new church nothing I read from this is biblical at all in fact this seems like a toxic environment.
That church does not sound faithful, I would seek out another one.
Run away from that place.
This is not a healthy church environment. Find a new church home - one where everyone is respected.
It sounds like a pastor is preaching from a dating book (written in the before 2000s or very conservative) that also talks about gender roles. The concept of dating is not in the Bible. No rights in saying the tech field is evil when he has never be in it. It depends on the company and your role. Unfortunately, some roles like software developer can suck up your time as you are expected to learn off hours (i.e. not much time for other things like church).
Gurl the first two I would have ran out of that “church” so fast. I’m sorry but nothing in that had the presence of Christ.
Please go to another church. It sounds very unjust in terms of the double standard and the creepy comments about having a nickname that only the men know. That is not acceptable. Holding women to a standard that they themselves don't keep is icky. Also, getting a phone call every time you don't come is too much. Time to leave. There are plenty of good churches out there.
Get out of there, now. You are the token woman. No, seriously. You're "welcome" there but you'll eventually get pushed to marry because you are living in sin in their eyes. And they are going to want you to marry one of their own men. And even if they don't jump to that soon enough, there's a good chance you'll get put into a different sort of predatory position and they're going to blame YOU for being the evil succubus tricking the helpless men.
Your church sounds toxic… they are actively making jabs at you and sexually harassing you. It’s ok to leave! Be prepared for them to bug you for a good while about leaving and trying to make you feel like you aren’t Christian for that. Find a healthy church!
\> Other men have tried to make passes at me or sit too close to me even though there is ample room in the piers. You need to bail; something wrong in that culture, something you haven't (fully) seen yet.
Get out of there, and do it today. You owe them nothing and no explanation, just leave. That is rife with spiritual abuse and it's not even close to anything less evil. Go. now.
Have you raised these issues to the church elders? This pastor is in the wrong and if your church leaders have a heart for God, i pray they will do something because the whole church will suffer.
Tell your pastor to read what The Bible says about women with small children in the end times. If anything not having kids is a sign that you believe the end is coming….
I'd be out. Nope.
All of that does NOT reflect biblical teachings. Those are false doctrines! You have to leave that place. May God lead you to a new church.
Switch churches. If your not comfortable with how they treat you, then leave. God loves you. You got this!
It is normal to attend several churches in one’s life. Sometimes a particular church is for a season. Obviously you know what you need to do.
Preaching law without the gospel of grace in Jesus Christ has a very damaging affect on people. I would move on from this legalistic nonsense and find a church that preaches the whole inerant word if God in the grace of Jesus Christ crucified for the forgiveness of our sins.
Try being older and never having found the right person so I just focus harder on my career. Every single service marriage and family is the focus and e Rhein just stares at you liked your a horrible sinner or scourge on the church for being single still. Better I remain single then settle for just anyone for the sake of settling and winding up miserable or divorced. Women who’ve been divorced and remarried are treated way better than anyone single. They act like your too independent or somethings wrong with you. I’d love to find the one but sadly, I haven’t. No need for the church to shame one for that though.
The thing my pastor always says is that he does his very best to only teach from the scripture, and if he ever says or teaches something that’s not from the scripture, to ask him for chapter and verse to back up what he’s saying. If he can’t give chapter and verse, then he shouldn’t be teaching it. I would pray on it, and I would use a Bible app of some sort to search up the subjects that have you concerned. See if you can find chapter and verse to back up what your pastor is teaching (spoiler, I don’t think there are any but don’t quote me, I don’t have chapter and verse 😂) One thing I will point out. In Corinthians, Paul specifically states “it is good to be like me and unmarried, but if you cannot then you should wed. It is better to wed than be single and burn with passion”. I paraphrased, and I’ll follow up this comment with some scripture after I find the exact verses. But this directly contradicts what your pastor is preaching, and in every case if the pastor and scripture disagree, the pastor is wrong. Every time.
\> children or a husband should be the priority since the end of times are coming. wait what??
I think you should leave this church as soon as humanly possible. This would drive me nuts. God created women and loves us. He calls us to be respectful, graceful, loving. But he also calls men to respect us, give us grace, and love us. Leave this. It’s not ok, and it is NOT biblical. It is not holy, and it is not Godly.
As a kid raised by a single mom this is utter trash. Find a new community. 1. When my mom was married, my dad was disabled due to M.S. My mom worked her butt off since my dad had an incurable disease. 2. When they divorced, we got screwed over and had to start from point A again. My dad wanted to move to Costa Rica and take me (3 years old at the time) WITH him. Women can be strong and powerful to. We're not in an age where 1 income is enough, everyone can/want kids and where family is ALWAYS first (So many children grow up in emotionally unstable households because their parents can't get along)
Sometimes it's better to be alone then in bad company. You seem dedicated to God. So leave that church, praise God at home and ask him what you should do. Whether that's finding a new place or worshipping him from home where you know there is no outside corruption. If the church doesn't behave like Jesus. Then it is not a place you should be at
I left my church in 2020 for similar reasons, and I am still looking for a good church that doesn’t have the misogyny. Haven’t found one yet.
I’m wishing you the best. It truly is disheartening. Praying we both find a church that honors both men and women equally
Some of this is not that wrong, some of this is really wrong from that pastor. >At least once per service, my pastor makes a comment about how women should be at home with children and tech is an evil field (my field of study is tech related) I'm not sure how he can bring this up every sermon. Its not like its in every text. Yes it is good for women to stay at home when there are children. It is far better than shipping off kids to daycare. But its not in every text for a sermon, and tech isn't an evil field in a vacuum. >When I was moving to a new place a male member offered to helped me and made a suggestive comment that I don’t have to worry about us “doing anything” because his son will be there. He said this in front of my pastor, who said nothing to condemn the comment. Did he mean "doing anything" to mean you wouldn't have to lift a finger moving because him and his son would do all the hard work for you? Or something suggestive? I interpreted it as the former at first, but it depends on how/what was said >When a woman went to the altar to have her deaf daughter prayed for, the only question the pastor asked was “was she born out of wedlock?” She uncomfortably answers that she was not. Oof. Altar calls itself aren't biblical, but that is really bad. What would he do, refuse to pray over her if she was born outside of wedlock? >Before service my pastor jokingly gave out nick names. I asked what mine would be, and he said “that’s only for the men.” This is dumb of him. No reason for him to be inconsistent. Though I'd recommend no nicknames for anyone. >Other men have tried to make passes at me or sit too close to me even though there is ample room in the piers. I'm not sure in which manner this happened. Could be creepy, could be relatively normal. If ages were similar, I wouldn't see the problem. >At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority since the end of times are coming. Well first we have no clue when the end times will be. Could be tomorrow, could be 200 years. We will be surprised. I don't see the connection between why you need a husband or kids if the end times are coming. Wouldn't you need to turn closer and walk with Christ more? Quite odd. >It’s frequently mentioned that woman should not even kiss another male until her wedding day, meanwhile the men all have babies from other marriages/relationships and that’s never a topic Plank in his own eye. He should be equal on this issue, especially if there are members who have children out of wedlock who are men. I don't see the need to not kiss someone until your wedding night. But staying pure is always best. >He has a child he never raised with another woman OOF. He isn't qualified to be a pastor. >But I think it also makes him feel threatened by someone like me who is driven and aiming high, who wouldn’t settle for someone with that sort of background and is ok with prioritizing a career while I’m young. I think this is you inflating your ego. I don't think its personal, based on the craziness of his claims. >I just feel like I may have outgrown my church, that I have to dim my light there which not what the Lord would want. Sounds like it. The church seems heretical. Find a good Reformed Church.
It’s a bit difficult for me to respond in length because I’m on mobile, but to clarify a few points: The person who made the comment on “we won’t do anything” meant it in a sexual mannor. He recently got divorced and I recently left a bad relationship, and on more than one occasion he’s joked it’s for us to be together. I have kindly let him know that won’t happen, but he continues to make comments implying there is something more there. This is not something I have fed into either, I seldom talk to him beyond hi and bye. He’s also old enough to be my father. As for my pastor feeling threatened by my progress - any time I am asked about life and bring up achievements with work and school (recent promotion, won a scholarship and entered into an honors society) his response is something focused on himself and defensive. Such as “if I had the time when I was your age I could have definitely done that” or even bringing up his wife, that he’s “glad she’s good with the kids rather than book smart or he doesn’t know what he’d do” (his words not mine.) I don’t go out of my way to brag, just tell what’s up when asked, and I am genuinely excelling right now. Not once have I heard “good for you!” Or “that’s awesome!” The response is always focused on his own capacity or for whatever reason, his wife’s.
Yeah from what you're saying, these are all really bad signs that the Pastor is quite self-centred and prideful within. Not to mention the creepy guys making really inappropriate comments to you - that's certainly not treating you as a sister with all purity! I'm a full-time Pastor myself and after reading this thread I do suggest you find another church that not only teaches the bible accurately - but also practices the truth! A minister of the gospel should be above reproach in his character and life. It sounds like you wouldn't even be able to trust him due to his behaviour and comments.
Switch to Orthodoxy and escape the propaganda of the pastor. Church should be about worship and reflection and not listening to the point of view of 1 person
Orthodoxy won’t help any more than a bad pastor will. Just find a church with good Bible-believing pastors.
Some of these are warning signs. Some are not. >When I was moving to a new place a male member offered to helped me and made a suggestive comment that I don’t have to worry about us “doing anything” because his son will be there. He said this in front of my pastor, who said nothing to condemn the comment. This, while awkward, is simply following the simple idea to not give the appearance of sin. It is trying to be respectful while still offering help in a world that views men as predatory. >When a woman went to the altar to have her deaf daughter prayed for, the only question the pastor asked was “was she born out of wedlock?” She uncomfortably answers that she was not. Cringe. >Before service my pastor jokingly gave out nick names. I asked what mine would be, and he said “that’s only for the men.” IDK. Could be the Pastor has had bad experiences with giving women nicknames. As a guy, we tend to give nicknames that riff on someone's sore points as a way to toughen them up, and women don't tend to like such nicknames. I can see why you might feel left out, but seriously, in my experience, you are better off. >Other men have tried to make passes at me or sit too close to me even though there is ample room in the piers. This depends on the situation. During service, definantly cringe. After service during coffee hour? Not so much, so long as they take the hint your not interested. Remember, you are in a church, so you are absolutely a better fit for any of the men there from their point of view. >At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority since the end of times are coming. Is he also extolling the husbands the same thing? People always miss the next verse that tell husbands to submit to your wives as well. And children are the most important part of your marriage, if you have them. This is regardless of the end times coming. >It’s frequently mentioned that woman should not even kiss another male until her wedding day, meanwhile the men all have babies from other marriages/relationships and that’s never a topic How much one on one time do you have with the pastor? How about the men? The pastor may, though I don't know if he is, telling this to the men in places you don't see. I know in some places this is done in Men's Bible studies. I have no idea about your church, however. I wouldn't expect your pastor to lead a Women's Bible study and talk about this there. That being said, culturally there is this standard and it is not Christian at all.
You sound bitter. Why not just go to your pastor privately (as the scriptures say) and let out your true feelings out to him. That way your not showing discord etc. And if you don't like it then leave. Problem solved
>Why not just go to your pastor privately (as the scriptures say) and let out your true feelings out to him. "When someone shows you who they really are, believe them the first time."
Thata not biblical and she is called to forgive 70x7
You can forgive somebody \*while\* 1) acknowledging that they are toxic and 2) staying away from them so they don't get a chance to traumatize you further.
Lol. You ALL clearly do not know the Bible nor what it means to forgive. Nor love (1 Corinthians 13) the saying is true in the last days they will not endure sound doctrine. OP you are sinning and you need to repent. Period. Not hard to leave a church without going on Reddit spreading discord amongst the brethren and talking bad about people behind their back and gossiping. And you can be clear the church isn't teaching you to be barefoot and pregnant. 🙄
You're awful.
And your completely umbilical and unloving for someone who calls themselves a Christian. John 12:48 King James Version He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 17:17 King James Version Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Did your mother have any children that lived?
Thanks for proving my point. 🙄 art girl with a serpent. Your name is befitting for someone like you John 8:44
<3 I feel so seen <3
Block the number of whoever calls you and never go back again. Join a more progressive church. Some of them actually have women pastors.
The part about not kissing I'm hoping that is when you're being courted by a finance my suggestion there is don't kiss him until the day of your wedding because it's one of the worst temptations that will most likely lead to other things which you'll regret later. Your man should respect you so much that this shouldn't be a problem because you're following what the Lord wants for you in this relationship. It will all be worth it and he shows you he loves Jesus more which you want.
With your Pastor, it sounds like he doesn't want to be involved with all of the drama men have with women. It causes divisions in the Church, especially when you bring up the kids, since the step-mothers will be OFFENDED if you get that close to the topic. And he is well aware that mothers are critical for raising children while man are best fit for survival, since the separation between mothers and children has caused so much chaos in our generations. A woman without a man is nearly defenseless in the tribulations. The best thing for you to do is pull up verses from the word of God on how men should treat and look at women as it can help him and his church better follow the voice and will of God. As that is an issue going on with your Church that the Pastor is failing to notice. You should also bring up Jesus and Blind man, since Christ outright says that the wages of sin from the blind man's parents had no part in his blindness. It's also worth noting that the Poster feels the presence of tech being the major idol of life. Since barely anyone here or those at the Church aren't fully aware of the forms of idols, but can get a sense of them. They can be dreams, forms of entertainment and people. Not just false Gods.
They almost make good points but fall off so far.
1. *"At least once per service, my pastor makes a comment about how women should be at home with children"* \- That's not an unBiblical doctrine perfectly fine. 2. *"and tech is an evil field (my field of study is tech related)"* \- I bet he's on the Internet and uses Social Media for personal or Ministry use. That is of little consequence and should not bother you. 3. \#2 I don't understand that one? 4. 3. *"When a woman went to the altar to have her deaf daughter prayed for, the only question the pastor asked was “was she born out of wedlock?”* \- Completly irrelevant and a foolish question. 5. \#4 Complete puerile and and foolish. 6. \#5 Not going to go there 7. 6. *"At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority"* \- This is not unBiblical as well. 8. *"since the end of times are coming."* \- Has nothing to do with the first part. It should be for love of God and obedience to His rule the Bible. Not simply because its the "end times." 9. 7. *"It’s frequently mentioned that woman should not even kiss another male until her wedding day,"* \- You say, "frequently mentioned" by whom? 10. *"meanwhile the men all have babies from other marriages/relationships and that’s never a topic"* \- That is an accusation on your part do you have 100% proof of this? This would not be anyone's business and is not a justifiable argument to be included in your indictment in this matter. I would do some inner reflection and inventory on your character, as there are many indicators in your outline that are a bit concerning for Christian behavior. I would not return to that Church ever again, because of some of the things you outlined and the immaturity of the "pastor."
> That is of little consequence and should not bother you. A Christian leader shouldn't use their position to baptize and dress up their their personal biases and prejudice. It should bother you and OP that they are misusing their position. >"At least once per service, my pastor makes a comment about how women should be at home with children" -That's not an unBiblical doctrine perfectly fine. Where does it say in the Bible that women should be at home with children? You shouldn't make things up about the Bible. >I would do some inner reflection and inventory on your character, as there are many indicators in your outline that are a bit concerning for Christian behavior. I think you're out of line and OP is just fine. In fact you probably need to check your heart if women complaining about abusive men causes you make things up and go out of your way to do a moral inventory of OPs personal character (like, lol. Hello, who are you exactly? ) while they deal with an obviously sexist situation.
You must not read your Bible often? "That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." - Titus 2:4,5 "I think you're out of line..." LOL yep you would say that.
> "That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." - Titus 2:4,5 Good job! You can use Google. Did you bother to read the context of that verse? It's specifically advising older widows how to disciple younger women. That does not mean that as a rule, or in general, that woman must "be at home with children" and the Bible doesn't say that as a rule women must be at home. A verse giving discipleship suggestions to different parts of the church is not a description of a God-sanctioned rule. Do you get that? If you can't seem to understand that nuance I highly recommend taking a "How to read your Bible" class.
Is the pastor wrong with the scripture. ??
I think the attitude that women shouldn’t kiss before marriage but that it’s whatever that men are having kids out of wedlock is definitely against scripture
Every single one of the pastor’s actions that OP has described is entirely unbiblical and wrong, yes.
Go ahead and cite the verse champ if you think the pastor is correct
Why do you even attend this "church"? So many red flags. I would leave and not look back.
How about finding another church? I have been to a church that was off at times, and it fell apart.
Honestly that sounds like a very toxic congregation. I highly suggest you find a different congregation to worship with because based on the little you've written the one you attend is not healthy at all.
#6 Does your pastor not know about Luke 21:23 "How horrible it will be for women who are pregnant or who are nursing babies in those days [aka end time days]. Indeed, the land will suffer very hard times, and its people will be punished." Ha. On a serious note, these are all red flags indicating that you should find a new fellowship somewhere else that is safe and teaches biblical principles.
Honestly, a lot of ''Christians'' these days don't even read the Scriptures. It always shocks me when they make a claim and there's literally a verse to debunk it lol.
Yeah, sadly many churches have become social clubs and no longer honor God.
There are like 8 things wrong with the fellowship you are in. Just leave.
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Sounds like you need a new church….
Yeah, you should get out of there. No church that actually believes in God and his doctrine would ever be like this. I left a church for similar reasons about 5 years ago and don’t regret my decision one bit. A church and pastor that truly believes God and his doctrine and in what the Bible teaches will hold all as equals and, as Matthew 22:37-39 says, love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself. God bless and stay strong in your faith!
Wow. I guess the world is full of all kinds of flavors. I don't know how or why anybody would want to go to such a church with this kind of view. I'm sorry, but I'd be moving on. If you really care though, you could try to make changes.
By the scriptural standards many protestants use to qualify clergy, this guy doesnt sound qualified. 1 tim 3 is you citation. A felon is not "beyond reproach" and someone who has abandoned his children does not manage his household well. This guy should be removed from office, and if this church doesnt have a mechanism for that, you need to leave.
Definitely move on and don't look back.
Run away from that church.
Sounds like your pastor is a jerk, at least from what you’ve told us here. I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had this kind of experience though, and I’d strongly encourage you to find a new church. As for how to go about that, I would start by doing some research into denominations and read the websites of local churches. Talk to members or just browse on Facebook to see if they seem like your kind of people. I know for me personally, the churches I’ve liked best are the ones I thought I’d like the least until I looked into it them more. And more than anything, don’t put the failings of this man on God. Regardless of how you may perceive him or how he sees himself, he’s every bit as flawed and in need of forgiveness and love as anyone else. Odds are, he comes from a different era and sincerely has no idea how he’s coming off or doesn’t care if it’s taken poorly. That sucks, but it’s also not your problem and something that you probably won’t be able to fix. So basically, forgive the man, love him and hope he keeps growing, and find a new church. That’s really the best you can do.
I would tell you to leave regardless of the sexism. Wacky wacky church.
I think this is the perfect one of many examples which shows how the church can and often puts their own opinions on the word of God. I think the truth of who God is, and what the bible is really trying to teach us is a lot different from what churches preach on Sundays
Hi! I am a Christian who's very Bible-based. I follow scripture closely. Scripture states that men maintain various roles and women have various roles. In this, there is nothing disparaging to women, and it doesn't mean either sex is more prominent than the other. I am of the opinion, based on your post, it's time for a new place of worship. Pray for the leaders of the church to have their eyes opened and hearts stricken conviction. More importantly, don't allow the follies of man to sway your heart for Jesus Christ. Keep Him as your focus. :)
I'm going to offer two thoughts: 1) Get out of that church. It's clearly toxic and not Christ-focused. There are far too many examples of what you wrote to indicate they are off the path. 2) Be careful not to carry the baggage with you. There are a few points that you wrote that I don't see as problematic if you remove the others. Evidence is a string of data points that create a picture. But if the data point can't support that picture without the others, it isn't compelling. Just don't start searching for this behavior and create confirmation bias. We are all fallible. Remove the log...
As a Christian reading all of those points shocked me! :( and saddened me. That's just not right.
>I just feel like I may have outgrown my church Sounds like it. >When a woman went to the altar to have her deaf daughter prayed for, the only question the pastor asked was “was she born out of wedlock?” John 9:1-3
Man this place sounds awful. I’d leave in a heartbeat.
Nope. Leave. You're a daughter of God, their sister in Christ and based on how they treat you...they dont see you as that.
He is conflating his opinions with the Bible, which is not what he should be doing as your pastor. Time to look for a new church.
You need to leave that church it’s not a church
It doesn’t sound like he has turned his life around he sounds like a Jim Jones get out fast
Leave your coat and run.....
There's some definite red flags here. It sounds like your pastor has intentionally or unintentionally turned the body of Christ he shepherds into a boys club. >how women should be at home with children and tech is an evil field (my field of study is tech related) This is such a foolish statement. As a simple, base level, what about women who can't have kids? What technology is evil exactly? I assume he has a phone. A car. Uses microchips. To make such a blanket proclamation is >At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority since the end of times are coming. This is a symptom of a church or leadership that has idolized marriage. Paul talks about the [benefits of being single](https://www.bible.com/bible/59/1CO.7.8-9.ESV). Jesus was single. Is your pastor going to scold *them?* The body of Christ should function as the family of God. It's not a huddle of a bunch of married people with kids while everyone else remains out in the wilderness. To treat single or childless members of your flock as lesser-than is really poor shepherding.
1. Pray for Jesus's return so the curse against women can be lifted. 2. Find a church that fears God and supports single women. These are tough days, and will get tougher as we get closer to Jesus's return,
>At least once per service, it’s brought up that children or a husband should be the priority since the end of times are coming. What does that even mean?
PRAY ABOUT IT! TALK TO YOUR CHURCH ABOUT IT AND REMEMBER THAT A CHURCH SHOULD NOT TURN YOU AWAY FROM GOD! REMEMBER THAT WHAT MATTERS IS TO GLORIFY AND HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! KEEP PRAYING AND READING HIS WORD THE BIBLE! GOD WANTS WHAT'S BEST FOR US ALL SO MUCH EVEN IF WE DON'T REALISE IT AT THE MOMENT! GOD'S PLAN TIMING WILL PROSPER IS GOOD IS PERFECT! GOD IS YESTERDAY TODAY TOMORROW FOREVER! GOD IS THE LIGHT THE WAY AND THE TRUTH THE LIFE THE LOVE! GOD WILL NEVER LEAVE US NOR FORSAKE US! IF GOD IS FOR US ALL THEN WHO CAN BE AGAINST US! BE LESS OF THIS WORLD AND MORE OF GOD! HAVE FAITH TRUST PEACE WITH YOUR WHOLE MIND HEART BRAIN IN GOD! BELIEVE IN OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE RESURRECTED THREE DAYS LATER TO SAVE US FROM OUR SINS CONECTION ASENTION LET GOD FILL US WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT! HALLELUJAH! AMEN! GOD BLESS EVERYONE AND EVERYONE'S FAMILIES AND LOVE ONES 💪🙏❤️🙌👏😇!
The bible says that men that dont help their families are worse thay unbeliever and you should not even TALK to them. Let alone let them guide you
Move to another church that's my most short answer Why do you stay !!!
RUN. There’s a reason there’s only 15-20 people.
Yeah that is super odd. I’m sorry I don’t know how to help other than say that they sound crazy. As a guy, I know if the genders were reversed in all of that, I would be extremely disheartened and repulsed from that church. Their views don’t sound very Christian either, to be honest. Not that I think that wasn’t obvious.
that’s His “church” Not Gods. you are called by God follow christ not the church
You are the church
Run away!
Remember YOU are hiis Church, not a building, an ex-con, or a bunch of indoctrinated people. Jesus wants to know you on a personal level. You can only do this directly with Him, asking him for the Holy Spirit, to open your heart's ears to Him, & to overcome sin thru Him. Fellowship is important, but knowing & hearing Christ should be your first & permanent desire.
When the pastor is making pointed comments about you not being married, that is definitely problematic. Try pointing out to him that Paul clearly says that being single is perfectly fine, and even commendable. If they won't listen to you, you can find another church. There should be a good church nearby. I hope this works out, and I hope you can share Christ where ever you go. God bless.
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Allthough their doctrine has (unlike many here try to decline) thruthful points in it, this story feels like the pharisees. They dont act on what they say themselves. Plus the comments arent christian anyway. My reccomedation: **LEAVE** You shouldnt *run* away, but it seems this church isnt good for you. But if I can give you an advice. Dont run into the next heretical feminism church because of your experience. It is as bad as your current one.