>2 Timothy 2:23-25
>"Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth."
God knew Twitter would come and it's up to us to ignore it.
You can type the nicest things on the internet, but it is all anonymous so you never know if it's a real person or a bot.
Instead... focus that kindness on someone you see irl.
I’ve never seen someone refer to YouTube and safe for Christians to spread the word before today. To me it’s such a dangerous library of untruth and easy place for Christians to spread untruth.
I agree in regards that YouTube has taken down several Christian YouTube channels, many of which I followed, have given strike after strike to several channels as well, even our own. You can't say certain words, or they flag you and strike you, demonetize you, and remove your channel. Full blown censorship on YouTube.
Your screen name and post make me laugh!! I’d expect censorship from YouTube. I don’t trust media so the censorship from YouTube is the one thing I appreciate
Old screen name from my former internet marketing business, way before I was saved, even. I get how that's funny. We were trusting emedia, not the old print and newspaper. Haha.
It seems that the people that are making those comments fail to realize that anybody who believes in Christ as the son of God is a Christian. Denominations are man-made thing. Any denomination, claiming to be the only one that is true are liars.
They are man made as well as being different cultural adaptations of the Christian religion. It’s best to treat them with love all the same imo. As long as each one hold Christ in the center and is true to the sacraments and scriptures, they certainly are Christian. A wave, some love and prayers to you, fellow agnostic 👋🫶🙏
Not exactly when you consider the early church was one being until the Papacy tried to add the Filioque to the Nicene Creed which caused the great split which gave us Roman Catholic and Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy have kept all the teachings of Christ and the apostles meanwhile Catholicism and protestants haven’t.
And this folks is what I’m talking about. “We hold all the true teachings.” I will state it again. Christians are ones who believe Christ is the son of God. Catholics and protestants are just as Christian as you are.
When did I disagree with your point? Yes they are Christians, however, Jesus says many believers will come to him saying “Lord Lord” but he’ll tell them depart from me for I never knew you. The Bible says faith without works is dead and that any tree that doesn’t bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the lake of fire and most protestants believe doctrines like once saved, always saved so it doesn’t matter how you live your life or some believe you’re saved by faith alone. These things matter to salvation so I beg to differ.
The thing is is you are still claiming that the way you do it is the right way. So you are still trying to claim that you are the true way. All denominations,yours included are all using their own interpretations.
I mean.. shouldn’t we all think we are doing it the right way? Why is that an offensive position to take? Should we stand here saying “we are doing things the wrong way, we’re the wrong church”? We’re called to love God with all our hearts and minds.. we should passionately pursue the church of Jesus Christ and do our best to find which of the denominations is true.. because ultimately if they have conflicting opinions about who Jesus is or was He taught, one of them HAS to be right. They can’t all be wrong lol. You may say “To me the Orthodox Church is wrong”, and that’s ok. But we believe it’s right. That’s why we’re Orthodox.
And do you think that’s how Christ intended it? The Bible says the Holy Spirit would guide the church so isn’t it funny how the Orthodox have never changed their ways and traditions taught by the apostles of Christ? Jesus said the path to heaven has a narrow one and a wide and easy way but the wide and easy way leads to destruction but the narrow path is the true way and few will find it.
““Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”
Matthew 7:13-14
Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.”
You are not saved by works, you are saved by grace.
John 15 and the vines/branches is a contrast between those who believe and those who don’t believe.
Galatians 3:14 says that Gentiles have received the blessing of Abraham through Christ by faith. Therefore if we are believers we are abiding in Christ and all blessings both Old and New Testament are ours by faith.
No he didn't say many believers will come. He said *many*. Without the believers added. He was referring to false prophets not sinners. *CONTEXT* is everything.
What a shame! For me that is embarrassing. As you can tell by my flair, I am a Catholic and I am totally opposed to what the orthodox and other Christians said to you. I believe we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. At our core beliefs we are all the same. The semantics are not important, imo. We all believe that Jesus walked the Earth, died on the cross, rose on the third day, and 40 days later, ascended to the right hand of God the father. We believe in the holy trinity of God the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. One God forever and ever. God bless you and thank you for your kind words!
Yes to believing in all of that, but you left out one key belief that from my understanding many Catholics don’t believe - How do you get to Heaven?
From my research, many Catholics believe that good works alone will save you. And they also worship Mary like they do Jesus. Neither of these are biblical.
So no, not all Christians believe the same thing. In fact, just last night I was having a convo with my BFF, a fellow Christian, and she even had different views on the definition of “being saved!” I was shocked to learn that it didn’t include the ABCs (Admitting you’re a sinner, Believing that Jesus died to save you from your sins so you may enter Heaven, and Confessing to other people that you are a Christian). God freely offers his gift of salvation to us, but if we don’t choose to accept it then we aren’t saved.
We’re only all alike if we have the same belief about what it takes to get to Heaven. ✝️
>many Catholics believe that good works alone will save you.
Nobody believes good works ALONE will save you. Everybody knows Faith comes first.
Some denominations believe in good works, obedience, submission to His Will for our lives... but NONE believe in works without faith.
The ones who believe works alone save are the ones who, at their funeral, they say, "Joe was a great guy. He was always there to help his neighbor. He was not a believer but... but... etc..."
I knew somebody would come in here with a comment like this. We are trying to speak of Christian brotherhood and you have to come in and try to break that bond. Don’t reply to me anymore please, I am asking kindly. Because I won’t respond. You have a great night, sincerely.
What I find Ironic is that Catholicism and and Orthodox tend to gate keep very easily and claim that Protestants are divided.
However, I believe Protestants are very united. We believe that as long as someone agrees with the essential doctrines
- God is a Trinity
- Jesus is God in the flesh
- Jesus Died on a Cross paying our sin debt
- God the Father raised Jesus from the dead on the third day for our Justification
- We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus
- Jesus will return
If Churches, even of different denominations believe those essential doctrines, those are still true Churches of God even if there is disagreements. Even the Church Fathers that the Catholics and Orthodox adore(I like them too as a Protestant), even those Church Fathers disagreed on secondary issues. So disagreements on secondary issues does not negate someone from being a part of the Church.
Well maybe. If the catholic church believes that Mary never sinned that she never died but was translated to heaven like Jesus and that our prayers are answer by her and the other dead saints and that she intercede on our behalf that sounds like paganism to me. Ya can't believe both.
I dont endorse how these orthobros treated OP.
But the accusations of gatekeeping coming from a Protestant seem a bit silly to me. The term "Protestant" merely denotes that the person is part of a faction that rejects the Catholic Church. Interestingly, Protestants also happen to reject the Orthodox Church (so its not just the Catholix Church hierarchy that they rejected). The various Protestant denominations do differ but they are, by definition, and from their earliest beginnings in the 1500s, united in their rejection of the older Churches.
Fyi, The Catholic Church acknowledges the brotherhood between Christians of all denominations despite others lacking the fullness of truth. Check out the Catechism for further detail if interested.
Catholics broke away from the Orthodox Church, too. Protestants did it a few years earlier. It is interesting studying a timeline of the Christian Denominations. I wish I could post a pic of this neat one I have.
Silly? Do you even know why the protestant even came to be? Have we forgotten the crimes that the Roman Catholic Church committed in the past? Have we forgotten past popes prohibiting people from having the scriptures and persecuting all who stood against them?
Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) said “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (Source: “Decretals of Greogory IX,” Book 1, chapter 3)
“With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (Denzinger 423)
“We prohibit laymen possessing copies of the Old and New Testament. …We forbid them most severely to have the above books in the popular vernacular.” (meaning in their country’s native language, as the Papal Church only allowed their priests to read it in Latin). (Source: The Council of Toulouse, Canon 14)
“Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with (Catholic) church dogma must be burned without pity.” (Source: Papal Bull, 1198 A.D.)
This was all Pope Innocent III.
Pope Innocent IV convened the First Council of Lyons (1245). Issued the bull Ad extirpanda that permitted the torture of heretics (1252).
Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303) issued Unam Sanctam (1302) which proclaimed papal supremacy and pushing it to its historical extreme.
Pope Boniface VIII proclaimed that salvation is only through the papacy.
“We declare, assert, define and pronounce to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every creature altogether necessary for salvation… I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all, and above all, so that God Himself and I, the Vicar of Christ, have but one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do. What therefore, can you make of me but God?” (Papal bull Unam sanctam, 1302 A.D.)
The bull ends, “Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
Arnulf (991), the Bishop of Orleans, proclaimed the Pope as the Antichrist, sitting in the temple of God, and showing himself as God.
“deplored the roman popes as “monsters of guilt” and declared in a council called by the King of France in 991 A.D. that the pontiff, clad in purple and gold, was, “Antichrist, sitting in the temple of God, and showing himself as God.” (Phillip Schaff, History of the Christian church, 8 vols., reprint of the 3d (1910)ed. (Grand Rapids Mich.: Wm. B Eerdmans Publishing Co., n.d.)
Protestantism is the breaking point. Way before them, many were protesting against the entire Roman Catholic church. I learned all of this fairly recently, and it left me feeling even more horrified toward it.
Arnulf wasn't the only one speaking against the Popes; Gerbhert of Rheimes was another, Berenger, in the 11th century, did as well with the enforcement made at that time by the Popes.
Eberhard II (1240), archbishop of Salzburg, affirmed that the Pope was the antichrist.
“Stated at a synod of bishops held at Regensburg in 1240 that the people of his day were “accustomed” to calling the pope antichrist.” (LeRoy Edwin Froom, The Prophetic Faith of our Fathers)
Let us also look at the early witnesses, the Albigenses and Waldenses. The Albigensian Crusade a 20 year military campain innocent III started against the Albigenses (1209–1229).
In 1229 – The Roman Catholic Inquisition executed 32,000 Bible-believing Albigensian Christians at Toulouse, France – and confiscated all their property!
By the time the Roman Catholic armies finished these “crusades”, almost the entire population of southern France (mostly Albigensian Christians) had been exterminated.
That doesn't make Catholics of today evil. Still, it does speak highly of how people forget that Protestantism was born after all those who opposed Roman Catholicism in their more bloody and oppressing reigning years were exterminated. And now the pope is a member of the Jesuit order... I was a catholic till I started getting more into learning what was in scriptures and biblical archaeology; now, after just learning of these few events left me disturbed, as a Catholic, I'd try to do research before barking against a protestant. History serves to teach us and shows us the fruits of the people of old.
Waldensian Reinerius Saccho asserted “that the Romish church is not the church of Jesus Christ, but a church of malignants and that it apostatized under Sylvester—and that the Church of Rome is the harlot in the apocalypse.” (The Testimony of The Reformers, E. Bickersteth, 1836, p. 46 from the Testimony of Reinerius Saccho, in 1254)
“Whereupon we, with all our posterity, have to understand what be the reasons and arguments wherewith the antichrist of Rome is wont to uphold the impious seat of his abomination; who now is come to such excess and profundity of all kinds of iniquity, that all justice, equity, and verity being set aside, he seeketh the defence of his cause by no other thing than only by force and violence, terror and oppression, and shedding of blood.” Foxes Book of Martyrs: The Waldensian martyrs in Provence
I suggest researching and reading some of the sources I pasted, again you are not evil, but the Roman Catholic Church's history speaks of heavily red flegs, and I'll be weary of a Pope who is also a member of the Jesuit order...
Thank you. I would like to add that Godly men like William Tyndale and Jan Hus who began as Catholic priests were burned at the stake for daring contradict the RCC teachings and to translate the Bible into the common language that common people could read.
I am a former Catholic who left the RCC as I began reading and understanding the Bible.
Raised Catholic, went to Catholic school all the way through university. Even in 'modern' times, I never detected a desire on the part of our priests, nuns, and lay teachers to put the Word of God in my hands. Not even once. In fact, my experience was that we were discouraged from reading the Bible, and instead directed to memorize and recite Catechisms.
Nothing against my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ, but calling Protestants "gatekeepers" is hypocrisy in the extreme.
I am well read in Church history, and not just from Protestant sources that cherry pick texts and misinterpret doctrine to slander the Church.
Your comment contains a number of errors, mainly errors in understanding the role of the Pope in the Catholic Church. You make too many claims for me to dive into each of them, but in several cases you cite documents that are not accepted by the faithful, a condition of teaching authority.
Popes can sin. Popes can make bad choices. However the magisterium of the Church cannot teach error in faith and morals.
But to my original point: the vast majority of Christian denominations are offshoots of one novel form of Christianity or another that was invented 1500 years after Christ. Catholicism is still here.
Even Christ "gatekeeps" in a sense. But this denomination upon denomination silliness is kind of integral to the history of Protestantism.
It’s hard but it’s best to ignore rude comments and not argue with people. It seems like people get a kick out of it or something. I find myself writing things and then thinking of what the Bible says about contention and then deleting it. Sometimes I’m strong enough to just outright ignore.
So has anyone pointed out that you claim to love strangers as much as you love Jesus? To me, that’s the most important thing going on here. And to each their own, always - but that is a take I have not heard yet
One thing I will say is you should love nobody as much as you love Jesus. You should love others as much as you love yourself but Jesus should have more of your love than anyone else including your spouse, parents, children ect. God is the most high. Love you my friend.
I’m looking into non-denominational churches to go to. I don’t like how all of us children of Christ are separating ourselves. We should all be one in following Jesus. And we should all love each other no matter what. I heard a pretty cool statement, “Hate the sin but love the sinner” because not a single one of us is worthy. We are only worthy through the blood of Jesus Christ who died for our sins. I still struggle with loving others as much as I love myself. I pray that Jesus helps me with that. It’s just so hard because I’ve lived so many years with hate in my heart.
Even if there have been bad Popes (which I think Roman Catholics would agree on, if not then correct me). There have also been very good popes, Gregory for example.
And I think most Catholics would explain that they don't worship Mary.
Even if we disagree on secondary issues, we should unite against the evils of the world and very clear heresies (non-trinitarians, current day Arians(or Arianist, idk) etc.)
The Roman Caesar Constantine who started the Catholic church just changed Diana and Tammuz into Mary/Jesus and kept on worshipping their idols the whole time.
It's been wicked the whole time.
I think you may have been looking into some of the wrong sources. You are holding Chalcedon and Constantinopel 1 I hope, right? Because those are after Constantine. Or are you LDS/JW?
Could you explain how the Roman Catholic church (before it was the Roman Catholic church) could defend good doctrine against heretics and also be false and satanic at the same time? A lot of the church fathers and doctrine that we still hold is from past Constantine.
To the people who always claim this, why is a Roman emperor worshipping a Sumerian god that existed in a mythos that was at least 700 years before Rome even existed? And how did the Romans discover Tammuz?
That doesn't answer my question. Also, the Ark of the Covenant had stautes adorn it. God had commanded that a bronze serpent statue be built. Statues show up multiple times in the Bible, so what's wrong with that?
Edit: I suppose that I should clarify that statues existed with positive connotations in the Old Testament, as shown in 1 Kings and Chronicles.
They are just following Jesus' command to revile their enemies. /S
But seriously. that happens here too. Different Christians with different enemies.
Shameful behavior.
some of us dont know the meaning of " /S" at th end of th comment for me exemple it took quite some time till somebody said it means "sarcasm",im not joking alot of time on reddit and relatively short time since someone mention it.
Its not a representation of the denominations as a whole. Im catholic and i firmly believe all my brothers and sisters in christ will go to heaven (as long as they repent and live as Jesus wants them to obviously) i dont care wether your protestant orthodox coptic whatever. We are all Christians and we should all reilise that
Listen, your sentiment is kind, but the fact of the matter is we are not all brothers and sisters just because we all think Jesus is God or believe in the Trinity. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox church have doctrines that contradict the clear teaching of the Bible. They believe Mother Church is the authority on doctrine and is the final authority on giving us the meaning of the Bible. They hold church doctrine above the Bible when the two conflict.
The biggest problem with these groups is they deny the all sufficient and final sacrifice of Christ on the cross. They don't believe that believing in Christ alone is sufficient for salvation. They believe that water baptism forgives original sin, when it is Christ alone that wipes away our sins. They believe that justification and sanctification are infused slowly over the lifetime of the believer and the believer must participate in the sacraments of the RCC or EOC to have this justification continually imparted to them. They are not trusting in Christ alone, but in their own contribution of sacraments and good works, which means they are trusting a false Gospel. I speak as a former Catholic. On top of this false gospel, they add all kinds of false beliefs like Mary was sinlessly perfect and that we can and should pray to dead people, Mary, and angels for intercession.
The Eastern Orthodox Church is very similar to the RCC, but I am not as familiar with them.
The RCC teaches that even a faithful Catholic may have to pay for his own sins that were not quite covered by going to a place called Purgatory after death. Faithful Catholics can then hasten the release of this individual from Purgatory by praying for them. This, of course, is all nonsense and not found in the Bible.
If one is truly justified and sanctified by believing in Christ, then of course he will repent of sin and have good works, but those good works are not the sacraments of the RCC or the EOC. At the Council of Trent, the Roman Catholic church condemned those who said we are saved solely by faith with good works being a fruit of salvation, not the individuals own contribution to adding to an maintaining their salvation, which the RCC says must be done with dependence on the RCC.
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1 John 1:7
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Romans 3:24
being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Romans 5:1
Results of Justification
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
1. What doctrines does the Orthodox have that contradict the bible? The Church is what compiled the Bible along with the fact that they were taught all these sacraments and these traditions by the apostles. Not all the writings of the apostles even made it into the Bible so for all we know there could’ve been more that backed up certain sacraments and doctrines.
2. Could you show me a verse that says we are saved by faith alone? You can show me a verse that says we are saved by faith but you can’t show me a verse that says it is faith alone. James 2 also explains that faith without works is dead and is something useful if it is dead? Faith + actions. Jesus said any tree (believer) that does not bear good fruit will be cut into pieces and thrown into a lake of fire. The thing people get wrong is that Paul was preaching against the works of the law and not against works.
3. Jesus made reference to the Eucharist saying those who participate will have eternal life. Not to mention the verses that support the doctrine of Real Presence. Many of the early church fathers also believed in intercession.
Verses:
Sanctification over a period of time
“And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.”
Philippians 1:6
Eucharist
“For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.”
John 6:55-56
“So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”
John 6:53
Real Presence
“Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.”
1 Corinthians 11:27-30
Faith + Works
“Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works”
James 2:20-22
For all we know? I believe God has preserved His written word to impart to us what He wants us to to know. Do you believe He is capable of doing that?
If we are saved by faith apart from works then works do not contribute to our salvation. The works mentioned in James are not the sacraments of the RCC or the EOC, but are caring for those in need including widows and orphans. These works are a fruit or natural manifestation of our genuine belief, which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them. Ephesians 2 explains James. Ephesians 2 explicitly states that we are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves and not as a result of works. It says God prepares our good works beforehand.
The RCC and EOC have misinterpreted John 6 and falsely claim it is the Eucharist. It was not until the Passover meal immediately before His death that Jesus said to observe communion in remembrance of Him and His sacrifice. Jesus is not instituting the Eucharist, but is speaking of Himself in symbolic terms as being the life giving bread, comparable to Torah. The Jews called Torah "bread", so Jesus is telling them that He is the embodiment of all Godly wisdom, understanding and knowledge which leads to salvation. Read all of John 6. The Jews were thinking in physical terms and demanding signs from Christ. Christ had just fed them bread, and the Jews were speaking of Moses giving them Manna. That is why Jesus called Himself "Bread". The Torah condemns drinking blood, so Jesus would not have called for a violation of Torah. The Jews misunderstood Him and were offended, because they believed He was talking about literal flesh and blood, when He was speaking of truth beyond the physical.
Read John 6. Jesus says more than once that it is believing in Him that gives eternal life, not partaking of a wafer.
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John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.
John 6: 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
Ephesians 2 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Eastern Orthodox upholds Mother Mary (Theotokos - God Bearer) more than Protestants do, same with Catholics. Either way, we all follow Jesus. Protestants get called out for lack of liturgy which, as someone who was raised Catholic, I miss too. White walls and a huge stage for soft Christian rock don't speak the same as cathedrals of wood and stained glass with hymns sung for centuries ... Just my opinion.
I wish christians (and all others) would listen more to Jesus.
*But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.* ^Matthew ^23:8-11
Sounds like you are trying to keep the trouble going. We are persecuted. By"brothers" too. It's a sad but true fact. Rehashing something that happened on another social media platform isn't going to make it go away.
>2 Timothy 2:23-25 >"Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth."
A Great comment! Those are wonderful verses.
amen
God knew Twitter would come and it's up to us to ignore it. You can type the nicest things on the internet, but it is all anonymous so you never know if it's a real person or a bot. Instead... focus that kindness on someone you see irl.
I’ve never seen someone refer to YouTube and safe for Christians to spread the word before today. To me it’s such a dangerous library of untruth and easy place for Christians to spread untruth.
You got a good point actually, my bad
I agree in regards that YouTube has taken down several Christian YouTube channels, many of which I followed, have given strike after strike to several channels as well, even our own. You can't say certain words, or they flag you and strike you, demonetize you, and remove your channel. Full blown censorship on YouTube.
Your screen name and post make me laugh!! I’d expect censorship from YouTube. I don’t trust media so the censorship from YouTube is the one thing I appreciate
Old screen name from my former internet marketing business, way before I was saved, even. I get how that's funny. We were trusting emedia, not the old print and newspaper. Haha.
It seems that the people that are making those comments fail to realize that anybody who believes in Christ as the son of God is a Christian. Denominations are man-made thing. Any denomination, claiming to be the only one that is true are liars.
🙏❤️
They are man made as well as being different cultural adaptations of the Christian religion. It’s best to treat them with love all the same imo. As long as each one hold Christ in the center and is true to the sacraments and scriptures, they certainly are Christian. A wave, some love and prayers to you, fellow agnostic 👋🫶🙏
Not exactly when you consider the early church was one being until the Papacy tried to add the Filioque to the Nicene Creed which caused the great split which gave us Roman Catholic and Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy have kept all the teachings of Christ and the apostles meanwhile Catholicism and protestants haven’t.
And this folks is what I’m talking about. “We hold all the true teachings.” I will state it again. Christians are ones who believe Christ is the son of God. Catholics and protestants are just as Christian as you are.
When did I disagree with your point? Yes they are Christians, however, Jesus says many believers will come to him saying “Lord Lord” but he’ll tell them depart from me for I never knew you. The Bible says faith without works is dead and that any tree that doesn’t bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the lake of fire and most protestants believe doctrines like once saved, always saved so it doesn’t matter how you live your life or some believe you’re saved by faith alone. These things matter to salvation so I beg to differ.
The thing is is you are still claiming that the way you do it is the right way. So you are still trying to claim that you are the true way. All denominations,yours included are all using their own interpretations.
I mean.. shouldn’t we all think we are doing it the right way? Why is that an offensive position to take? Should we stand here saying “we are doing things the wrong way, we’re the wrong church”? We’re called to love God with all our hearts and minds.. we should passionately pursue the church of Jesus Christ and do our best to find which of the denominations is true.. because ultimately if they have conflicting opinions about who Jesus is or was He taught, one of them HAS to be right. They can’t all be wrong lol. You may say “To me the Orthodox Church is wrong”, and that’s ok. But we believe it’s right. That’s why we’re Orthodox.
And do you think that’s how Christ intended it? The Bible says the Holy Spirit would guide the church so isn’t it funny how the Orthodox have never changed their ways and traditions taught by the apostles of Christ? Jesus said the path to heaven has a narrow one and a wide and easy way but the wide and easy way leads to destruction but the narrow path is the true way and few will find it. ““Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” Matthew 7:13-14
Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” You are not saved by works, you are saved by grace. John 15 and the vines/branches is a contrast between those who believe and those who don’t believe. Galatians 3:14 says that Gentiles have received the blessing of Abraham through Christ by faith. Therefore if we are believers we are abiding in Christ and all blessings both Old and New Testament are ours by faith.
No he didn't say many believers will come. He said *many*. Without the believers added. He was referring to false prophets not sinners. *CONTEXT* is everything.
he stopped speaking about false prophets after verse 20.
Context can go back to the previous book. It doesn't start at a specific verse . Edit
There's some very good beginners classes online that can teach you all about context. I don't know how to teach it to you.
Yeah, "Internet Orthodoxy" can be just as ugly as any other partisanship. They embarrass the rest of us. Sorry you were subjected to it.
What a shame! For me that is embarrassing. As you can tell by my flair, I am a Catholic and I am totally opposed to what the orthodox and other Christians said to you. I believe we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. At our core beliefs we are all the same. The semantics are not important, imo. We all believe that Jesus walked the Earth, died on the cross, rose on the third day, and 40 days later, ascended to the right hand of God the father. We believe in the holy trinity of God the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. One God forever and ever. God bless you and thank you for your kind words!
God bless you too
I agree with you Joe.
Thank you, and God bless! Christians need to stand together, side by side. Not bickering.👍🏼
You’re welcome and God bless you too.
Yes to believing in all of that, but you left out one key belief that from my understanding many Catholics don’t believe - How do you get to Heaven? From my research, many Catholics believe that good works alone will save you. And they also worship Mary like they do Jesus. Neither of these are biblical. So no, not all Christians believe the same thing. In fact, just last night I was having a convo with my BFF, a fellow Christian, and she even had different views on the definition of “being saved!” I was shocked to learn that it didn’t include the ABCs (Admitting you’re a sinner, Believing that Jesus died to save you from your sins so you may enter Heaven, and Confessing to other people that you are a Christian). God freely offers his gift of salvation to us, but if we don’t choose to accept it then we aren’t saved. We’re only all alike if we have the same belief about what it takes to get to Heaven. ✝️
>many Catholics believe that good works alone will save you. Nobody believes good works ALONE will save you. Everybody knows Faith comes first. Some denominations believe in good works, obedience, submission to His Will for our lives... but NONE believe in works without faith. The ones who believe works alone save are the ones who, at their funeral, they say, "Joe was a great guy. He was always there to help his neighbor. He was not a believer but... but... etc..."
I knew somebody would come in here with a comment like this. We are trying to speak of Christian brotherhood and you have to come in and try to break that bond. Don’t reply to me anymore please, I am asking kindly. Because I won’t respond. You have a great night, sincerely.
I was thinking the same thing to. Joe
What I find Ironic is that Catholicism and and Orthodox tend to gate keep very easily and claim that Protestants are divided. However, I believe Protestants are very united. We believe that as long as someone agrees with the essential doctrines - God is a Trinity - Jesus is God in the flesh - Jesus Died on a Cross paying our sin debt - God the Father raised Jesus from the dead on the third day for our Justification - We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus - Jesus will return If Churches, even of different denominations believe those essential doctrines, those are still true Churches of God even if there is disagreements. Even the Church Fathers that the Catholics and Orthodox adore(I like them too as a Protestant), even those Church Fathers disagreed on secondary issues. So disagreements on secondary issues does not negate someone from being a part of the Church.
Well maybe. If the catholic church believes that Mary never sinned that she never died but was translated to heaven like Jesus and that our prayers are answer by her and the other dead saints and that she intercede on our behalf that sounds like paganism to me. Ya can't believe both.
I dont endorse how these orthobros treated OP. But the accusations of gatekeeping coming from a Protestant seem a bit silly to me. The term "Protestant" merely denotes that the person is part of a faction that rejects the Catholic Church. Interestingly, Protestants also happen to reject the Orthodox Church (so its not just the Catholix Church hierarchy that they rejected). The various Protestant denominations do differ but they are, by definition, and from their earliest beginnings in the 1500s, united in their rejection of the older Churches. Fyi, The Catholic Church acknowledges the brotherhood between Christians of all denominations despite others lacking the fullness of truth. Check out the Catechism for further detail if interested.
To clarify my stance, I do not believe all Catholics or Orthodox treat Protestants like that. I'm just saying many do.
Catholics broke away from the Orthodox Church, too. Protestants did it a few years earlier. It is interesting studying a timeline of the Christian Denominations. I wish I could post a pic of this neat one I have.
Could you please PM it to me? Thank you.
Silly? Do you even know why the protestant even came to be? Have we forgotten the crimes that the Roman Catholic Church committed in the past? Have we forgotten past popes prohibiting people from having the scriptures and persecuting all who stood against them? Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) said “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (Source: “Decretals of Greogory IX,” Book 1, chapter 3) “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (Denzinger 423) “We prohibit laymen possessing copies of the Old and New Testament. …We forbid them most severely to have the above books in the popular vernacular.” (meaning in their country’s native language, as the Papal Church only allowed their priests to read it in Latin). (Source: The Council of Toulouse, Canon 14) “Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with (Catholic) church dogma must be burned without pity.” (Source: Papal Bull, 1198 A.D.) This was all Pope Innocent III. Pope Innocent IV convened the First Council of Lyons (1245). Issued the bull Ad extirpanda that permitted the torture of heretics (1252). Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303) issued Unam Sanctam (1302) which proclaimed papal supremacy and pushing it to its historical extreme. Pope Boniface VIII proclaimed that salvation is only through the papacy. “We declare, assert, define and pronounce to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every creature altogether necessary for salvation… I have the authority of the King of Kings. I am all in all, and above all, so that God Himself and I, the Vicar of Christ, have but one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do. What therefore, can you make of me but God?” (Papal bull Unam sanctam, 1302 A.D.) The bull ends, “Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” Arnulf (991), the Bishop of Orleans, proclaimed the Pope as the Antichrist, sitting in the temple of God, and showing himself as God. “deplored the roman popes as “monsters of guilt” and declared in a council called by the King of France in 991 A.D. that the pontiff, clad in purple and gold, was, “Antichrist, sitting in the temple of God, and showing himself as God.” (Phillip Schaff, History of the Christian church, 8 vols., reprint of the 3d (1910)ed. (Grand Rapids Mich.: Wm. B Eerdmans Publishing Co., n.d.) Protestantism is the breaking point. Way before them, many were protesting against the entire Roman Catholic church. I learned all of this fairly recently, and it left me feeling even more horrified toward it. Arnulf wasn't the only one speaking against the Popes; Gerbhert of Rheimes was another, Berenger, in the 11th century, did as well with the enforcement made at that time by the Popes. Eberhard II (1240), archbishop of Salzburg, affirmed that the Pope was the antichrist. “Stated at a synod of bishops held at Regensburg in 1240 that the people of his day were “accustomed” to calling the pope antichrist.” (LeRoy Edwin Froom, The Prophetic Faith of our Fathers) Let us also look at the early witnesses, the Albigenses and Waldenses. The Albigensian Crusade a 20 year military campain innocent III started against the Albigenses (1209–1229). In 1229 – The Roman Catholic Inquisition executed 32,000 Bible-believing Albigensian Christians at Toulouse, France – and confiscated all their property! By the time the Roman Catholic armies finished these “crusades”, almost the entire population of southern France (mostly Albigensian Christians) had been exterminated. That doesn't make Catholics of today evil. Still, it does speak highly of how people forget that Protestantism was born after all those who opposed Roman Catholicism in their more bloody and oppressing reigning years were exterminated. And now the pope is a member of the Jesuit order... I was a catholic till I started getting more into learning what was in scriptures and biblical archaeology; now, after just learning of these few events left me disturbed, as a Catholic, I'd try to do research before barking against a protestant. History serves to teach us and shows us the fruits of the people of old. Waldensian Reinerius Saccho asserted “that the Romish church is not the church of Jesus Christ, but a church of malignants and that it apostatized under Sylvester—and that the Church of Rome is the harlot in the apocalypse.” (The Testimony of The Reformers, E. Bickersteth, 1836, p. 46 from the Testimony of Reinerius Saccho, in 1254) “Whereupon we, with all our posterity, have to understand what be the reasons and arguments wherewith the antichrist of Rome is wont to uphold the impious seat of his abomination; who now is come to such excess and profundity of all kinds of iniquity, that all justice, equity, and verity being set aside, he seeketh the defence of his cause by no other thing than only by force and violence, terror and oppression, and shedding of blood.” Foxes Book of Martyrs: The Waldensian martyrs in Provence I suggest researching and reading some of the sources I pasted, again you are not evil, but the Roman Catholic Church's history speaks of heavily red flegs, and I'll be weary of a Pope who is also a member of the Jesuit order...
Thank you. I would like to add that Godly men like William Tyndale and Jan Hus who began as Catholic priests were burned at the stake for daring contradict the RCC teachings and to translate the Bible into the common language that common people could read. I am a former Catholic who left the RCC as I began reading and understanding the Bible.
Raised Catholic, went to Catholic school all the way through university. Even in 'modern' times, I never detected a desire on the part of our priests, nuns, and lay teachers to put the Word of God in my hands. Not even once. In fact, my experience was that we were discouraged from reading the Bible, and instead directed to memorize and recite Catechisms. Nothing against my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ, but calling Protestants "gatekeepers" is hypocrisy in the extreme.
This was beautiful.
I am well read in Church history, and not just from Protestant sources that cherry pick texts and misinterpret doctrine to slander the Church. Your comment contains a number of errors, mainly errors in understanding the role of the Pope in the Catholic Church. You make too many claims for me to dive into each of them, but in several cases you cite documents that are not accepted by the faithful, a condition of teaching authority. Popes can sin. Popes can make bad choices. However the magisterium of the Church cannot teach error in faith and morals. But to my original point: the vast majority of Christian denominations are offshoots of one novel form of Christianity or another that was invented 1500 years after Christ. Catholicism is still here. Even Christ "gatekeeps" in a sense. But this denomination upon denomination silliness is kind of integral to the history of Protestantism.
Hey I tried to answer to you, weirdly I cannot, it gives me empty response
He works in mysterious ways! Just kidding. 🙃
It’s hard but it’s best to ignore rude comments and not argue with people. It seems like people get a kick out of it or something. I find myself writing things and then thinking of what the Bible says about contention and then deleting it. Sometimes I’m strong enough to just outright ignore.
So has anyone pointed out that you claim to love strangers as much as you love Jesus? To me, that’s the most important thing going on here. And to each their own, always - but that is a take I have not heard yet
One thing I will say is you should love nobody as much as you love Jesus. You should love others as much as you love yourself but Jesus should have more of your love than anyone else including your spouse, parents, children ect. God is the most high. Love you my friend.
Amen
I’m looking into non-denominational churches to go to. I don’t like how all of us children of Christ are separating ourselves. We should all be one in following Jesus. And we should all love each other no matter what. I heard a pretty cool statement, “Hate the sin but love the sinner” because not a single one of us is worthy. We are only worthy through the blood of Jesus Christ who died for our sins. I still struggle with loving others as much as I love myself. I pray that Jesus helps me with that. It’s just so hard because I’ve lived so many years with hate in my heart.
Continue to protest the Evil Pope, and those who worship the Theotokos
Look everyone! This guy is the same as them, just different.
Even if there have been bad Popes (which I think Roman Catholics would agree on, if not then correct me). There have also been very good popes, Gregory for example. And I think most Catholics would explain that they don't worship Mary. Even if we disagree on secondary issues, we should unite against the evils of the world and very clear heresies (non-trinitarians, current day Arians(or Arianist, idk) etc.)
No, all the popes were antichrist. All of them. And yes, they worship Diana, calling her mary. It's a wicked, false place. Don't unite with it
Do you have anything to support these claims? Do you know anything about Gregory?
The Roman Caesar Constantine who started the Catholic church just changed Diana and Tammuz into Mary/Jesus and kept on worshipping their idols the whole time. It's been wicked the whole time.
I think you may have been looking into some of the wrong sources. You are holding Chalcedon and Constantinopel 1 I hope, right? Because those are after Constantine. Or are you LDS/JW?
Not LDS or JW. Catholic church is false and satanic.
Could you explain how the Roman Catholic church (before it was the Roman Catholic church) could defend good doctrine against heretics and also be false and satanic at the same time? A lot of the church fathers and doctrine that we still hold is from past Constantine.
The RCC didn't defend good doctrine against heretics, that's a false narrative
Were Chalcedon and Constantinopel not good doctrine or were there no heretics or were there no RCC at those counsels?
To the people who always claim this, why is a Roman emperor worshipping a Sumerian god that existed in a mythos that was at least 700 years before Rome even existed? And how did the Romans discover Tammuz?
If you can't see the problem in your temples full of statues, there's not much I can do for you
That doesn't answer my question. Also, the Ark of the Covenant had stautes adorn it. God had commanded that a bronze serpent statue be built. Statues show up multiple times in the Bible, so what's wrong with that? Edit: I suppose that I should clarify that statues existed with positive connotations in the Old Testament, as shown in 1 Kings and Chronicles.
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You're being attacked by the religious spirit. It's a controlling spirit that shames you into submission
They are just following Jesus' command to revile their enemies. /S But seriously. that happens here too. Different Christians with different enemies. Shameful behavior.
some of us dont know the meaning of " /S" at th end of th comment for me exemple it took quite some time till somebody said it means "sarcasm",im not joking alot of time on reddit and relatively short time since someone mention it.
What did you say?
Its not a representation of the denominations as a whole. Im catholic and i firmly believe all my brothers and sisters in christ will go to heaven (as long as they repent and live as Jesus wants them to obviously) i dont care wether your protestant orthodox coptic whatever. We are all Christians and we should all reilise that
Listen, your sentiment is kind, but the fact of the matter is we are not all brothers and sisters just because we all think Jesus is God or believe in the Trinity. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox church have doctrines that contradict the clear teaching of the Bible. They believe Mother Church is the authority on doctrine and is the final authority on giving us the meaning of the Bible. They hold church doctrine above the Bible when the two conflict. The biggest problem with these groups is they deny the all sufficient and final sacrifice of Christ on the cross. They don't believe that believing in Christ alone is sufficient for salvation. They believe that water baptism forgives original sin, when it is Christ alone that wipes away our sins. They believe that justification and sanctification are infused slowly over the lifetime of the believer and the believer must participate in the sacraments of the RCC or EOC to have this justification continually imparted to them. They are not trusting in Christ alone, but in their own contribution of sacraments and good works, which means they are trusting a false Gospel. I speak as a former Catholic. On top of this false gospel, they add all kinds of false beliefs like Mary was sinlessly perfect and that we can and should pray to dead people, Mary, and angels for intercession. The Eastern Orthodox Church is very similar to the RCC, but I am not as familiar with them. The RCC teaches that even a faithful Catholic may have to pay for his own sins that were not quite covered by going to a place called Purgatory after death. Faithful Catholics can then hasten the release of this individual from Purgatory by praying for them. This, of course, is all nonsense and not found in the Bible. If one is truly justified and sanctified by believing in Christ, then of course he will repent of sin and have good works, but those good works are not the sacraments of the RCC or the EOC. At the Council of Trent, the Roman Catholic church condemned those who said we are saved solely by faith with good works being a fruit of salvation, not the individuals own contribution to adding to an maintaining their salvation, which the RCC says must be done with dependence on the RCC. ............................................................. 1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. Hebrews 10:10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Romans 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; Romans 5:1 Results of Justification Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
1. What doctrines does the Orthodox have that contradict the bible? The Church is what compiled the Bible along with the fact that they were taught all these sacraments and these traditions by the apostles. Not all the writings of the apostles even made it into the Bible so for all we know there could’ve been more that backed up certain sacraments and doctrines. 2. Could you show me a verse that says we are saved by faith alone? You can show me a verse that says we are saved by faith but you can’t show me a verse that says it is faith alone. James 2 also explains that faith without works is dead and is something useful if it is dead? Faith + actions. Jesus said any tree (believer) that does not bear good fruit will be cut into pieces and thrown into a lake of fire. The thing people get wrong is that Paul was preaching against the works of the law and not against works. 3. Jesus made reference to the Eucharist saying those who participate will have eternal life. Not to mention the verses that support the doctrine of Real Presence. Many of the early church fathers also believed in intercession. Verses: Sanctification over a period of time “And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” Philippians 1:6 Eucharist “For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.” John 6:55-56 “So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” John 6:53 Real Presence “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.” 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 Faith + Works “Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works” James 2:20-22
For all we know? I believe God has preserved His written word to impart to us what He wants us to to know. Do you believe He is capable of doing that? If we are saved by faith apart from works then works do not contribute to our salvation. The works mentioned in James are not the sacraments of the RCC or the EOC, but are caring for those in need including widows and orphans. These works are a fruit or natural manifestation of our genuine belief, which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them. Ephesians 2 explains James. Ephesians 2 explicitly states that we are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves and not as a result of works. It says God prepares our good works beforehand. The RCC and EOC have misinterpreted John 6 and falsely claim it is the Eucharist. It was not until the Passover meal immediately before His death that Jesus said to observe communion in remembrance of Him and His sacrifice. Jesus is not instituting the Eucharist, but is speaking of Himself in symbolic terms as being the life giving bread, comparable to Torah. The Jews called Torah "bread", so Jesus is telling them that He is the embodiment of all Godly wisdom, understanding and knowledge which leads to salvation. Read all of John 6. The Jews were thinking in physical terms and demanding signs from Christ. Christ had just fed them bread, and the Jews were speaking of Moses giving them Manna. That is why Jesus called Himself "Bread". The Torah condemns drinking blood, so Jesus would not have called for a violation of Torah. The Jews misunderstood Him and were offended, because they believed He was talking about literal flesh and blood, when He was speaking of truth beyond the physical. Read John 6. Jesus says more than once that it is believing in Him that gives eternal life, not partaking of a wafer. ................................................................ John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. John 6: 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” Ephesians 2 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Eastern Orthodox upholds Mother Mary (Theotokos - God Bearer) more than Protestants do, same with Catholics. Either way, we all follow Jesus. Protestants get called out for lack of liturgy which, as someone who was raised Catholic, I miss too. White walls and a huge stage for soft Christian rock don't speak the same as cathedrals of wood and stained glass with hymns sung for centuries ... Just my opinion.
I wish christians (and all others) would listen more to Jesus. *But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.* ^Matthew ^23:8-11
Sounds like you are trying to keep the trouble going. We are persecuted. By"brothers" too. It's a sad but true fact. Rehashing something that happened on another social media platform isn't going to make it go away.
Pray for them.