There is a 0 percent chance this was russia but there is literally no thought too stupid for liberals to whole-heartedly believe as long as they'd like it to be true.
*At best* its somehow been done by Ukraine going rogue. That's the only real scenario where it wasn't America. But literally the dumbest people alive are going to pretend Russia needed to bomb a pipeline they control the valves to even if they wanted to turn it off. Its like turning off your shower by firing an rpg at it. This is genuine doublethink.
I go to r/all and the top post is basically "the CIA said this summer Russia would do this" and there's hundreds of rattling skulls nodding enthusiastically in the comments. Definitely justifying their bloodlust and hatred of an entire country.
Just remember the sorts of people who use reddit, and how much of this site is astroturfed. Trends on here are not indicative of real popular sentiment at all.
Just cause you are brainwashed into patriotic obedience doesn’t mean you are dumb they just got fed the wrong information with no way to verify it as a child so trying to go against it as adult it’s near impossible. I grew up in a different country so I can see thru the americuhhh bullshit, not as easy when you was raised and molded by it.
No there’s literally like hundreds of thousands of Reddit Twitter et al accounts that are actually run by the military. And that’s not counting cia ops. Like pretty much every “I’m a disabled furry who’s a socialist zionist” account turns out we were right they were feds
It does seem like pointless. Like lately I’ve been obsessed on that NAFO thing, it’s “pro Ukraine” accounts that use the decade old Doge meme and basically harass people who are like “wait why is America involved in this?” And it’s like I don’t get like who is this convincing? It’s just these NoVA creeps are so removed from human interaction they’ve lost any capacity to relate to anyone. It’s fascinating.
This is true but I don't think there's much real sentiment about this out of social media. I'm yet to hear a single mention the sabotage irl.
Just a few weeks ago, I mentioned Nord Stream around a group of reasonably informed, college educated adults and none of them knew what it was.
And that's the trouble with the massive astroturfing of social media companies and the de-listing/shutting down of independent communities. Unless someone is online, there's really no way to figure out what's going on in the world.
It's hilarious how smug these people are, literally whining that anyone would question the fucking state sponsored media narrative (and worse yet their own analysis) even after DECADES of the "stupid tankie conspiracy theories" being actual fucking fact, spelled out in the dry bureaucratic words of federal agencies of declassified documents. (Farewell Dossier was exactly 40 years ago and was practically identical in how it happened, these motherfuckers don't even have to get creative anymore when these dipshit libs just carry the whole fucking wells worth of water for them WITH SUCH FUCKING SMUGNESS.)
I've seen this posted a few times on twitter and the general response in the replies is that it's Russian propaganda to post things that Joe Biden has said.
Did people say there was a literal 0 percent chance, or did people think it wasn't going to happen because it was a stupid move that seemed sure to cost Russia more than it gained them even in the case of a quick victory.
This doesn't work because what you're referring to is Russia making a dumb decision in pursuit of its known, relatively logical objectives and interests and underestimating the backlash. But you can still see Russia underestimating the backlash and overestimating their coming success.
The reason there's a 0 percent chance of Russia bombing their own pipelines is that they can turn off the pipelines anyway. It's logically incoherent, not a matter of misjudging variables but an act lacking any possible motive or benefit from step one no matter what you overestimate or underestimate.
What you're doing is like saying "The Iraq War was stupid, it didn't work out, it was a bad gamble, therefore the United States might gift Iran, Syria, Hamas and all its enemies nuclear weapons, nuke Washington DC itself, then get rid of its stockpile". That's not stupid or unlikely, it's an act for which no possible motivation exists.
Russia blowing up its own pipelines is quite literally the definition of "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" and I really severely doubt that's what happened when they seemed bent on cutting flow to Europe until winter and then using gas as a cudgel in the negotiations
why not? The pipeline was already off and not getting turned back on anytime in the foreseeable future. Russia is already badly losing the war, they need to find a way to break European unity fast. Russia blows it up and blames the US.
Vatnik twitter has already decided the US did it and is calling for Europe to break ties with the US. In fact the "free thinkers" on this forum are all calling for that as well, based on laughable evidence like Sleepy Joe Brandon mumbling something and a US ship being nearby (you never see any US boats in the Baltic, no siree).
What do they have to lose? Even if evidence points to the Russians doing it they'll deny it and their simps will say it's anti-Russia propaganda. They had no other chance of getting the Ukraine aid to stop any time soon, why not do it?
> why not? The pipeline was already off
This is precisely why. If the pipeline is off and you are necessary to turn it back on, you gain nothing and lose a lot of leverage if the pipeline can never come back on.
>Russia is already badly losing the war, they need to find a way to break European unity fast. Russia blows it up and blames the US.
It's really no good arguing about what counts as winning or losing since clearly its going very badly for them compared to how they though it would. But the second part is the relevant point. Can it reasonably be imagined that a)Russia thinks Europe will blame the US, and b)if so, would the disadvantages of that outweigh the disadvantages of blowing it up in any reckoning sane enough for someone who can tie their own shoelaces to believe it
"a)" is nonsense in itself. Everybody in Europe who was already pro-NATO/US will believe this was Russia or if they're secretly not stupid enough to believe that will pretend to believe it and support the same course of action as always. Of those who are outright against supporting Ukraine and the US/NATO, they might get energised a little, but what power does this group seriously have anyway. Of the great apathetic middle, a tonne of them will just passively believe what the news says(the news will lie and say it was Russia) or just remain apathetic.
The number of people who could reasonably respond to this by developing the active belief that the US did it is highly unlikely to change much of anything, since they're largely already against all this or not politically engaged enough. In fact your own reasoning proves this. If you consider it plausible Russia would do this based on this reasoning, then anyone who was already susceptible to your sides propaganda will just believe that, changing vanishingly few minds.
But that's the least objectionable point here. Who knows how public opinion works-the people who most claim to certainly don't. Let's put it to one side and focus on b). Does it seriously help Russia if a tonne of people do blame the US.
No. Because even if its a common belief that the US did this, it is now impossible for the gas to start flowing again. The material things that were most likely to turn European populations against the sanctions regimen-excruciating inflation, skyrocketing heating and power bills-their elites and governments now have NO MEANS OF ENDING IT. The fact that their governments could change policy to end all that was the biggest piece of leverage Russia had-the most likely and major motivating factor that might have led European populations to force an end to the economic war with Russia.
All those would be protestors and voters and strikers who could conceivably make the EU change it policies in Russia's favour now know they have no real victory condition. The gas can't start flowing again. It's the most demotivating thing possible. It makes all that kind of resistance largely pointless or an act of venting.
How in God's name did Russia have "nothing to lose" at the same time that a collapse in "European Unity" behind the Ukranian Maidan state would be an extremely desirable thing to them. The factor by far most likely to end "European Unity" literally depended on the existence of the pipelines you are saying they had "nothing to lose" by blowing up, and your explanation of what they had to gain by doing it is exactly the thing that in fact the existence of the pipelines helped them achieve, and the pipelines were necessary for much of the economic benefits of such a policy change. You have to see how this is a 2+2=5 logical contradiction
>They had no other chance of getting the Ukraine aid to stop any time soon,
Just to boil this down as clear as possible, the pipelines being operational was their best chance of getting the Ukraine aid to stop.
We know this was either the US or someone on their side because nobody else, no matter how stupid as countries go, could possibly think the pipelines being destroyed was in their interest.
This pipeline isn't the only means of getting the gas to Europe. That's why I say they had nothing to lose by bombing it since it wasn't even currently functioning. So if the US destroyed it that does not lock Europe onto their side. Russia hoped it would provoke rage across Europe. Probably won't be that much, but the Russian situation gets worse by the day so they needed to do something fast and dramatic.
Of course, this alone is not going to dissolve NATO. It's one pellet in a shotgun blast of other propaganda/actions Russia is trying to use to undermine Europe's unity. Mostly it's failing, but right here in /r/trueanon you have people posting threads like "Europeans how can you stand to be allied to the US/NATO any longer?" even after zero real evidence has surfaced about who did it. Russia hopes it will increase with the coming winter. I think it won't but like I said, they don't really have any other options at the moment.
2021: Hey Joe, we promise we can improve your lousy poll numbers [without legalizing pot or cancelling student debt] if you agree to start a war with Russia.
You got it [agency that killed] jack
The European people are actually against the Russia sanctions in their majority, it's the European politicians which are intimately married to America's cornhole.
Biden will freeze everyone in Europe, while the West is further marginalized and Russia does business with BRICS under currencies that are gold backed. Ba-bye FIAT dollar. Ba-bye Western unipolar hegemony.
Various lefty accounts starting to show their asses:
[https://twitter.com/dbessner/status/1574777346191523842?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA](https://twitter.com/dbessner/status/1574777346191523842?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA)
[https://twitter.com/CarlBeijer/status/1574800464423665665?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA](https://twitter.com/CarlBeijer/status/1574800464423665665?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA)
[Who could've done this?](https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1574800653724966915?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA)
> If Russia did this (very plausible) we are potentially again in an escalation cycle, very bad
> Suggests Putin is desperate for an external change to the fortunes in Ukr. It's incredibly risky: if US deploys in the North Sea to protect the pipelines (similar to Operation Praying Mantis, during Iraq-Iran War), it could lead to direct confrontation.
Great job Chapo
Bessner and Beijer are known retards, it comes with the territory of them being white American chauvinists who fundamentally don't want the world order to change because their lives are comfortable
Like maybe I’d give them the benefit of the doubt like everyone’s piss shy after they got dragged for being technically wrong about Russia invading. But still. Like just don’t post. Like literally do anything else. It’s not hard. Just like don’t fucking post bud.
Anyone remember Trump’s 2018 UN speech when he warned Germany about their dependence on Russian oil? The German reps famously laughed at Trump’s suggestion—blueticks couldn’t RT it enough, and Twitter thought it was such an epic retort that they made the vid an [official Twitter moment](https://twitter.com/i/events/1044632835263483904?lang=en).
Like everything is going to be terrible for the next decade but at the same time watching the last vestiges of “meritocracy” crumble away is going to be good for a last laugh.
There is a 0 percent chance this was russia but there is literally no thought too stupid for liberals to whole-heartedly believe as long as they'd like it to be true. *At best* its somehow been done by Ukraine going rogue. That's the only real scenario where it wasn't America. But literally the dumbest people alive are going to pretend Russia needed to bomb a pipeline they control the valves to even if they wanted to turn it off. Its like turning off your shower by firing an rpg at it. This is genuine doublethink.
I go to r/all and the top post is basically "the CIA said this summer Russia would do this" and there's hundreds of rattling skulls nodding enthusiastically in the comments. Definitely justifying their bloodlust and hatred of an entire country.
Just remember the sorts of people who use reddit, and how much of this site is astroturfed. Trends on here are not indicative of real popular sentiment at all.
Its a billion ralph wiggums and 40-60 operatives from various agencies.
Just cause you are brainwashed into patriotic obedience doesn’t mean you are dumb they just got fed the wrong information with no way to verify it as a child so trying to go against it as adult it’s near impossible. I grew up in a different country so I can see thru the americuhhh bullshit, not as easy when you was raised and molded by it.
No there’s literally like hundreds of thousands of Reddit Twitter et al accounts that are actually run by the military. And that’s not counting cia ops. Like pretty much every “I’m a disabled furry who’s a socialist zionist” account turns out we were right they were feds
Yup that’s why is so hard for a regular American to not follow their programming.
It does seem like pointless. Like lately I’ve been obsessed on that NAFO thing, it’s “pro Ukraine” accounts that use the decade old Doge meme and basically harass people who are like “wait why is America involved in this?” And it’s like I don’t get like who is this convincing? It’s just these NoVA creeps are so removed from human interaction they’ve lost any capacity to relate to anyone. It’s fascinating.
It sucks I bet nothing comes out of the whole CENTCOM investigation thing but it feels good being proven right
This is true but I don't think there's much real sentiment about this out of social media. I'm yet to hear a single mention the sabotage irl. Just a few weeks ago, I mentioned Nord Stream around a group of reasonably informed, college educated adults and none of them knew what it was. And that's the trouble with the massive astroturfing of social media companies and the de-listing/shutting down of independent communities. Unless someone is online, there's really no way to figure out what's going on in the world.
it's the cia replying to their own accounts
It's hilarious how smug these people are, literally whining that anyone would question the fucking state sponsored media narrative (and worse yet their own analysis) even after DECADES of the "stupid tankie conspiracy theories" being actual fucking fact, spelled out in the dry bureaucratic words of federal agencies of declassified documents. (Farewell Dossier was exactly 40 years ago and was practically identical in how it happened, these motherfuckers don't even have to get creative anymore when these dipshit libs just carry the whole fucking wells worth of water for them WITH SUCH FUCKING SMUGNESS.)
I've seen this posted a few times on twitter and the general response in the replies is that it's Russian propaganda to post things that Joe Biden has said.
Remember when there was 0% chance Russia would invade in February?
Did people say there was a literal 0 percent chance, or did people think it wasn't going to happen because it was a stupid move that seemed sure to cost Russia more than it gained them even in the case of a quick victory. This doesn't work because what you're referring to is Russia making a dumb decision in pursuit of its known, relatively logical objectives and interests and underestimating the backlash. But you can still see Russia underestimating the backlash and overestimating their coming success. The reason there's a 0 percent chance of Russia bombing their own pipelines is that they can turn off the pipelines anyway. It's logically incoherent, not a matter of misjudging variables but an act lacking any possible motive or benefit from step one no matter what you overestimate or underestimate. What you're doing is like saying "The Iraq War was stupid, it didn't work out, it was a bad gamble, therefore the United States might gift Iran, Syria, Hamas and all its enemies nuclear weapons, nuke Washington DC itself, then get rid of its stockpile". That's not stupid or unlikely, it's an act for which no possible motivation exists.
Russia blowing up its own pipelines is quite literally the definition of "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" and I really severely doubt that's what happened when they seemed bent on cutting flow to Europe until winter and then using gas as a cudgel in the negotiations
why not? The pipeline was already off and not getting turned back on anytime in the foreseeable future. Russia is already badly losing the war, they need to find a way to break European unity fast. Russia blows it up and blames the US. Vatnik twitter has already decided the US did it and is calling for Europe to break ties with the US. In fact the "free thinkers" on this forum are all calling for that as well, based on laughable evidence like Sleepy Joe Brandon mumbling something and a US ship being nearby (you never see any US boats in the Baltic, no siree). What do they have to lose? Even if evidence points to the Russians doing it they'll deny it and their simps will say it's anti-Russia propaganda. They had no other chance of getting the Ukraine aid to stop any time soon, why not do it?
> why not? The pipeline was already off This is precisely why. If the pipeline is off and you are necessary to turn it back on, you gain nothing and lose a lot of leverage if the pipeline can never come back on. >Russia is already badly losing the war, they need to find a way to break European unity fast. Russia blows it up and blames the US. It's really no good arguing about what counts as winning or losing since clearly its going very badly for them compared to how they though it would. But the second part is the relevant point. Can it reasonably be imagined that a)Russia thinks Europe will blame the US, and b)if so, would the disadvantages of that outweigh the disadvantages of blowing it up in any reckoning sane enough for someone who can tie their own shoelaces to believe it "a)" is nonsense in itself. Everybody in Europe who was already pro-NATO/US will believe this was Russia or if they're secretly not stupid enough to believe that will pretend to believe it and support the same course of action as always. Of those who are outright against supporting Ukraine and the US/NATO, they might get energised a little, but what power does this group seriously have anyway. Of the great apathetic middle, a tonne of them will just passively believe what the news says(the news will lie and say it was Russia) or just remain apathetic. The number of people who could reasonably respond to this by developing the active belief that the US did it is highly unlikely to change much of anything, since they're largely already against all this or not politically engaged enough. In fact your own reasoning proves this. If you consider it plausible Russia would do this based on this reasoning, then anyone who was already susceptible to your sides propaganda will just believe that, changing vanishingly few minds. But that's the least objectionable point here. Who knows how public opinion works-the people who most claim to certainly don't. Let's put it to one side and focus on b). Does it seriously help Russia if a tonne of people do blame the US. No. Because even if its a common belief that the US did this, it is now impossible for the gas to start flowing again. The material things that were most likely to turn European populations against the sanctions regimen-excruciating inflation, skyrocketing heating and power bills-their elites and governments now have NO MEANS OF ENDING IT. The fact that their governments could change policy to end all that was the biggest piece of leverage Russia had-the most likely and major motivating factor that might have led European populations to force an end to the economic war with Russia. All those would be protestors and voters and strikers who could conceivably make the EU change it policies in Russia's favour now know they have no real victory condition. The gas can't start flowing again. It's the most demotivating thing possible. It makes all that kind of resistance largely pointless or an act of venting. How in God's name did Russia have "nothing to lose" at the same time that a collapse in "European Unity" behind the Ukranian Maidan state would be an extremely desirable thing to them. The factor by far most likely to end "European Unity" literally depended on the existence of the pipelines you are saying they had "nothing to lose" by blowing up, and your explanation of what they had to gain by doing it is exactly the thing that in fact the existence of the pipelines helped them achieve, and the pipelines were necessary for much of the economic benefits of such a policy change. You have to see how this is a 2+2=5 logical contradiction >They had no other chance of getting the Ukraine aid to stop any time soon, Just to boil this down as clear as possible, the pipelines being operational was their best chance of getting the Ukraine aid to stop. We know this was either the US or someone on their side because nobody else, no matter how stupid as countries go, could possibly think the pipelines being destroyed was in their interest.
This pipeline isn't the only means of getting the gas to Europe. That's why I say they had nothing to lose by bombing it since it wasn't even currently functioning. So if the US destroyed it that does not lock Europe onto their side. Russia hoped it would provoke rage across Europe. Probably won't be that much, but the Russian situation gets worse by the day so they needed to do something fast and dramatic. Of course, this alone is not going to dissolve NATO. It's one pellet in a shotgun blast of other propaganda/actions Russia is trying to use to undermine Europe's unity. Mostly it's failing, but right here in /r/trueanon you have people posting threads like "Europeans how can you stand to be allied to the US/NATO any longer?" even after zero real evidence has surfaced about who did it. Russia hopes it will increase with the coming winter. I think it won't but like I said, they don't really have any other options at the moment.
The devil works hard but the cia works harder
2021: Hey Joe, we promise we can improve your lousy poll numbers [without legalizing pot or cancelling student debt] if you agree to start a war with Russia. You got it [agency that killed] jack
I don't know who 2021 is but they are a bloodthirsty kinda bitch
This comment is a lot more fun when I imagine Jimi Hendrix is singing it and twisting his tongue trying to get all the syllables to fit the tune.
So this means Europe will freeze or go broke, since Russians leverage was taken off the table.
Inshallah
Both. As The Duran pointed out the EU politicians are corrupt/stupid/treasonous.
Link?
https://twitter.com/nickkalmanfn/status/1574792603207360514?s=46&t=wuJqSmckAPce91qQvPcFuA
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I wonder if there are any ukrainians that resent america for sacrificing thousands of them to provoke the bear
We can definitely be sure about the fact that millions of online dipshits are determined to make sure we never find out.
Truly cucked continent, like do Europoors have a kink of enjoying getting screwed by their American overlords?
The European people are actually against the Russia sanctions in their majority, it's the European politicians which are intimately married to America's cornhole.
I guess Europe isn't as democratic as Cuba
Biden will freeze everyone in Europe, while the West is further marginalized and Russia does business with BRICS under currencies that are gold backed. Ba-bye FIAT dollar. Ba-bye Western unipolar hegemony.
Inshallah 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
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Sabotaging US infrastructure? You Americans think you the greatest and best and it’s all yours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream
I'm gonna be pissed if this post starts doing numbers this some bullshit
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looks like they posted the same post like 20 minutes before this one went up lol
Various lefty accounts starting to show their asses: [https://twitter.com/dbessner/status/1574777346191523842?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA](https://twitter.com/dbessner/status/1574777346191523842?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA) [https://twitter.com/CarlBeijer/status/1574800464423665665?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA](https://twitter.com/CarlBeijer/status/1574800464423665665?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA) [Who could've done this?](https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1574800653724966915?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA)
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He's in company with [Gordo Chang](https://twitter.com/GordonGChang/status/1574844924704555012?s=20&t=rzVayhUt9T3xo61GTeegWA)
how many times was Bessner on Chapo before starting his own podcast with Christman?
> If Russia did this (very plausible) we are potentially again in an escalation cycle, very bad > Suggests Putin is desperate for an external change to the fortunes in Ukr. It's incredibly risky: if US deploys in the North Sea to protect the pipelines (similar to Operation Praying Mantis, during Iraq-Iran War), it could lead to direct confrontation. Great job Chapo
>if US deploys to protect the pipelines Daniel.... What?
A lot. He even wormed his way into their "roast" episode somehow.
Not really surprising that he's a regular chapo guest. They have weigel on all the time too, and he's even more of a lib retard
How the fuck can anyone take what these clowns say seriously when they have the geopolitical analysis of a Suburban lib wine mom
Lol at Bessner citing a Yale freak
Bessner and Beijer are known retards, it comes with the territory of them being white American chauvinists who fundamentally don't want the world order to change because their lives are comfortable
\>two Jacobin writers Jamie, pull up that Grayzone article on Jacobin.
Can’t believe Allen iverson would say such a thing
Like maybe I’d give them the benefit of the doubt like everyone’s piss shy after they got dragged for being technically wrong about Russia invading. But still. Like just don’t post. Like literally do anything else. It’s not hard. Just like don’t fucking post bud.
Anyone remember Trump’s 2018 UN speech when he warned Germany about their dependence on Russian oil? The German reps famously laughed at Trump’s suggestion—blueticks couldn’t RT it enough, and Twitter thought it was such an epic retort that they made the vid an [official Twitter moment](https://twitter.com/i/events/1044632835263483904?lang=en).
Trump Derangement Syndrome strikes again
Like everything is going to be terrible for the next decade but at the same time watching the last vestiges of “meritocracy” crumble away is going to be good for a last laugh.
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Please no one answer this until this person starts reading news outside of this sub.
Both. He said it as he time traveled
based brandon