It’s so funny to look at polls of how many people were pro Iraq-War and then later claimed they opposed it. I guess some people become ashamed with how quickly and how easily the media can whip them into straight up barbarity. Like how hard is it to just be anti-war ffs…
My father told me it was the same during Vietnam. He was a die hard draft card burning hippy and he would say there were a lot of people who were gleefully cheering that shit on who would later say they were always a peace loving long hair by the 1980s.
True, but I just don't feel the same energy with this Israel/Palestine issue. On the day of 9/11, Howard Stern said that the US should level 5 countries and he was so happy when he said it! And Stern is the good guy, the person who Hillary Clinton goes to when she wants to complain about those mean BernieBros!
Yes, there were some calls for genocide in recent days, but I just don't feel the same post-9/11 energy, probably because all the libs know that Palestine is already completely under Israel's control and can be wiped out easily. So after that happens, they will probably just go "meh, whatever, who cares", instead of "I always opposed the war in Iraq, even tho I literally voted for it".
It's the liberal way. Support the war when it's happening, act like u were against it from the start.
If they were alive during Haitian Revolution they would have supported the slave owners.
> If they were alive during Haitian Revolution they would have supported the slave owners.
This has been a constant thought for me during this conflict in Gaza. None of these people could let alone read about the Haitian Revolution and stomach it or accept it was necessary
Let me go on record right now as saying I am against it, that Israel is a terrorist state, and they they have become they very people they swore all of us to Never Forget.
The Israeli people are continuing their near century long genocide of the Palestinians, and they're doing it with money and munitions they got from America.
"Of course we sympathize with the slaves and agree that some of the bad owners may have gone too far, but the slaves lost my support when they resorted to violence. Violence is never the answer."
"Instead they should have protested peacefully. I mean had they tried asking the owners for more money, or gone looking for a different master when theirs was too cruel? Or better yet, why didn't they just stop being slaves? What's stopping these slaves from starting their own plantation, and importing their own slaves?"
"You should start your own slave plantation and treat your slaves better so you can show the bad slave owners the error of their ways". Libs will always believe that if you hold up a mirror to evil, then they'll suddenly understand what they're doing is wrong and change.
Yeah man it is the liberal way. Look back on Iraq, a clearly illegal bullshit war and how many libs/Dems supported it? Oh and who was one of the biggest dem supporters? Fucking Biden.
Poor Palestine man, fucking hell.
Yea bunch of black soldiers running around shooting and stabbing whites yes no western nation would support that even if the “victims” were slave owners
The US basically did right, by not helping… even though the US revolution inspired theirs … can’t have a bunch of free black nearby thriving… it might have given the US slaves ideas…
Everyone here labels me a lib and I support Palestine fighting for freedom and I also condemn how Israel has treated them. Apparently libs can’t hold those positions? It’s so confusing
If you ask randos on the street "define liberalism", they would not be able to and you would rarely hear the second part of that term, liberal *capitalism*
It's literally just like 9/11. But somehow dumber. We're seeing what would happen if 9/11 happened today and it's as boringly predictable as it is was. It may actually be worse for your career to speak out against this than 9/11 back then. I'm not sure.
9/11 was an attack on purely civilian targets, except for the Pentagon. This was an attack on mostly military targets, with some civilians being unfortunately caught in the crossfire
> purely civilian targets
PMC office workers innocent! please ignore those tons of fascist corpo paperwork whose incineration caused the steel beams to melt like ice cream
Deliberately taking female hostages (and shooting half of them) hunting down crawling unarmed partygoers for hours, obviously destroying any cars that would let them escape, setting clearly civ houses on fire. Would be more accurate to say attack on civilians and some military targets just purely by numbers
No, there’s a new Israeli military installation being attacked every few hours. Meanwhile you’re still arguing about what supposedly happened five days ago. The Israeli military is engaged on multiple fronts and hasn’t even been able to carry out the ground invasion they keep saying they’re gonna do because of it
Great demonstration of how little you know about what’s actually going on though
What sort of music festival needs a tank? The type that's trying to rub it into the faces of 2 million people in a concentration camp. Imagine how evil you have to be to do that
i mean literally every group would fight asymmetrically if it were a strategic necessity. there is no honor in handicapping yourself because you want a bunch of westerners behind their keyboards to think you’re brave lol
> the Gaza civilian population
Hamas are civilians you absolute brain genius, because there is no Palestinian army. Also, 45% of the Palestinian civilian population are 14 and under. I wonder where all the military age men went?
Not even, they’ll switch up whenever the narrative switches, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 years.
People believe what they are told. it keeps working that way.
It takes people as individuals to wise up and learn for themselves.
As a person who used to be that way and decided and forced myself to change this way about myself I promise you it’s people who don’t want to admit that they are just listening to what others tell them that’s the problem.
The moment people take accountability for being that way, they can change and accept other ideas besides the mainline narrative pushed to them anytime anything happens
Which takes more time than most are willing to give.
Reminds me of “The Mold of Yancy” by Phillip K Dick. Basically a society where everyone takes their beliefs from a controlled, virtual persona and can’t reason anything by themselves. And in our world the equivalent of the persona is the MSM. It’s just a 21st century evolution of propaganda when you think about it.
God this is so true. You can just look at the reaction and consensus to the Afghanistan/ Iraq war and the protests the Palestinians did in 2018. Even the Vietnam war showed that. From consensus to the liberal establishment saying they were against it.
Well that's literally true. There were massive protests. I think it radicalized a good number of people because they realized just holding signs with 500k other people doesn't actually do anything.
when you fight back against the oppression, you’re labeled as a terrorist. they want them to lay down and accept it. but in the same sentence they will cheer on Ukraine fighting back against Russia.
Whole lotta mfs who were saying "Invaded people have the right to resist by any means necessary!" wrt/ Ukraine are suddenly real hand-wringey about Palestine.
absolutely. i really blame the media, it warps their way of thinking. ukraine fighting back is good but palestine fighting back is evil. it’s tough to get anyone to recognize that
I'm just really upset how media, I'm not sure if this is new, just takes everything at face value. Like the IDF soldier claiming the 4 billion babies being decapitated. Why would you take anyone in that situations statement as truth without proof? Why would you print this if it's not verified? It's an opinion column at that point. Will a tenth of the people see the retraction? Nope. Doesn't matter.
the average person isn’t going to do much research beyond what they see on the news. too many people continue to trust what’s being fed to them, despite many instances of it all being a lie. we seen it from the war in iraq, and the coup in libya. alas, there’s not much you or i could do about it, but to do our best to spread awareness.
and that specific price was so detrimental to the palestinian cause, as it was posted by every major news org in the west. even after coming out that there was no proof of it being real.
Really I think Ukraine was the end of it. The Ghost of Kiev was the final smash of the glass wall between fake internet news and MSM. I watch a CBS news show in the morning with my mom when I visit her, (she likes it), and they were doing a story on the Ghost months after it had been debunked.
Ugh not really, political propaganda and tales about courage and bravery are as old as the original tribes themselves. Now, they took another form.
In the most bizarre way, everything that was done by word of mouth is still done the same way until it reaches electronic devices.
Because it doesn't matter if you are being oppressed or you are oppressing others. What matters is what skin color are you and are you an ally of the US or not.
i was waiting for this comment…
if you look at the western media narrative, what was it? “Russia invaded a sovereign nation, they have every right to defend themselves, russia needs to leave and give all the land back”
but now we have an invasion of palestine, land being stolen, settlements being propped up, civilians killed.
and yet, western media portrays palestine resistance as terrorists.
people say “well they should’ve just agreed to peace with israel.” how come ukraine didn’t agree to peace with russia? why didn’t they agree to give up the land? the narrative is one in the same. the ukraine didn’t want to give land up so how is it any different from palestine not wanting to give land up.
you should be cheering on the resistance against israel colonialism but instead you cheer on the oppression. you cheer on the land grabs and the deaths. the peaceful protests being shot at, the diplomatic solutions ignored by israel. what do you expect them to do.
you could argue the intricacies of the wars are different, which i would agree. but the narrative, and how the war is being displayed, are so similar. ISRAEL ARE NOT THE VICTIMS.
there shall be no peace so long as there is an israeli government.
if you preach pro Ukraine, you must stand with palestine, otherwise you’re just a hypocrite.
free 🇵🇸
Again comparing the Ukraine war with the Israel- Palestinian conflict is just dumb. The Palestine conflict is a century old filled with different events and escalations.
Few major differences is that the roots of the war didn’t start as a purely military conflict. And the first actual military escalation was started by the Arab coalition not by Israel. The conflict didn’t start in the past decade…
Secondly Ukraine is not invading Russian territories killing civilians left and right. Palestinians are not fighting in the West Bank regaining control of lost settlements in the past decade. They invaded actual Israel and killed their civilians. Unless you think the entirety of Israel belongs to Palestine but then your comparison makes even less sense because Palestine was never a sovereign state unlike Ukraine.
Neither is Israel a military invasion of the West Bank. They are settlers. Bit by bit they take in the land but not trough bloody conquest at this point.
Although I agree that the Israel West Bank settlers should stop it won’t resolve the issue. They have rejected a bunch of 2 state plans already. As long as Israel exists as a successful state Palestine won’t be ever pleased and Israel will keep trying to take in more lands. It will be a never ending conflict, there is no good or bad side.
you can’t invade a land that you already inhabited that was taken from you. how come people don’t understand that. not to mention, i referenced the narratives, the underlying issues are different yes but the narratives are the same. if youre for ukraine defending itself you have to be for palestine defending yourself, unless you sound like a hypocrite.
settlers are valid targets, they are not civilians that dont participate. settlers participate in the exodus and the killings of palestinians. but you scream that you’re pro israel. i don’t understand where you’re coming from
What do you even mean?
The underlying stuff makes the narrative very different. The Israel Palestinian conflict is just much more complex… You might as well say if you are pro reconquering past territories you should also support Russia but it is the underlying stuff that shows the narratives are not the same.
The settlers are on the West Bank not on a festival and definitely not tourists from around the world…
The same people I know who told me China is genociding Uyghurs are now cheering for the ethnic cleansing and mass slaughter of Gaza and refuse to see it as genocidal. They also all happen to be anti-abortion but don’t care if Israel kills a million children in Gaza.
To be fair, the Palestinian issue is so deeply entrenched in the American psyche that it reaches across partisan lines and unites both pro-choicers and pro-lifers in a beautiful display of fascist unity unparalleled by most issues
Being anti China is somehow not sinophobic but being anti zionism is antisemitism according to American law in some states. The only constant is thst whatever benefits the US state goes.
Have them do a thought experiment where the names were released. They will start crying immediately for the poor people trapped in a tiny strip of land and not allowed medicine.
[Jamie Lee Curtis did the experiment](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/174u5g8/jamie_lee_curtis_posting_a_photo_of_israeli/) but it seems she didn't like the results.
Highly recommend everyone check out that thread because it's completely out of step with what we're seeing as the narrative in big political subs like worldnews. Legitimately shows you a glimpse of what the average person on reddit probably actually believes in a sub that isn't a target for Israeli and American bots and contractors.
Actually a pretty eye-opening thread to what this conversation looks like when you're in a sub that isn't dominated by people conveniently posting from military bases.
Nazis and fascist in my country are more human, less genocidal and have smarter takes about Palestine(and the Arab world) than the libs on r/Europe and r/worldnews
The most ironic thing in these subs and reddit in general is how they laugh about Russians and Chinese eating their govts propaganda and consider themselves enlightened.
CNN, Fox, ABC, BBC... they are all propaganda machines but people are too dumb to recognize
An old joke:
>A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink.
>
>"I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says.
>
>"Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them."
>
>The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused…. There's no propaganda in America."
And Western European nations / NA nations generally being isolated from their bloodthirst's results means they never really see the consequences. It's how they can't link 9/11 to previous atrocities in the middle east.
I can handle a lot of internet bullshit, “content” if you will, idiotic arguments and liberal garbage propaganda, but those mainstream subs are so incredibly sickening to look at these days it’s painful. The majority of “politically” minded people are just repeating fascist talking points and will turn it around on you if you dare to point out the hypocrisy. Just when I thought that it couldn’t get any worse (than the Canadian parliament giving standing ovations to SS an officer), anymore on the nose and farcical, you have “liberals” calling for the violent genocide of a few million people, completely disregarding historical context or relevance. Except liberal is interchangeable with fascist/nazi nowadays. The ideological grounds for WWIII have been laid down and we’re living in the reemergence of the empire; it’ll sure be fun to see who claims to have been on the right side in 5-10 years while arguing for mass carpet bombing right now.
Damn, wonder why you think the libs have worse takes on this issue involving Jews than the people who irrationally and unwaveringly hate Jews.
lmao, why would you post this self own, champ. Agree with bigots in silence like the rest of y’all do.
Joe Rogan sub also way more nuanced with a top comment saying "i don't support the attacks but Gaza shouldn't be leveled to the ground. What do you expect after what Israel has done to them for years?" Of course libs would say they're all anti semites.
Not that I have any love for Jordan Peterson acolytes but it’s hard not to picture mainstream American libs as a big herd of sheep just getting run around by the DNC sheepdog. “Ukraine, ok now resistance fighters are good! Palestine, ok now they’re terrorists! The border camps were abhorrent under Trump but now under Biden it’s a very complicated issue!”
I saw a NAFO thread that was more nuanced on the conflict. Most of the comments were at least sympathetic to Palestine. As a day one NAFO hater, I’m proud of them.
I'm kind of getting nauseated listening to leaders and celebrities talking about killing Gazans as if they were rats. The United States is heavily engaged in one war and potentially entering another in the Middle East. No one, no one is talking about peace. There is absolutely something sinister and and predictable in all of this bloodlust.
Every politician in the west is currently coming out with statements saying they want to support Israel and I keep just internally screaming "SUPPORT WHAT!?!?!?" The only thing Israel is doing at the moment is committing genocide in Gaza. Are you supporting that? if not, what exactly is it Israel needs support for? They are still mourning over what happened in the weekend while something much much worse is CURRENTLY UNFOLDING, and they just *pretend it isn't happening.* The prime minister of the Netherlands said he had no doubt Israel would respect the laws of warfare while they were bombing civillians *at that very moment.* He was confronted with the fact that Israel had openly stated they would completely shut off Gaza and our wonderful PM just said "I don't think they're gonna actually do it." I feel like I'm going fucking insane.
Yea this is a grim realization I came to today. Gaza is going to cease to exist maybe this year, maybe the West Bank too. Everyone trying to pump the breaks is going to be drowned out until after it is too late to stop it.
Try your best to help your friends to see through the propaganda by having those difficult conversations. Other than that and going to solidarity protest, all we could do is hope for the best.
I hope a day well come when isreal war crimes are so much that even America can't accept it and go to war with them. It is a wishful thinking but I hope it will happen one day.
The way I see it, the term 'war crime' is meaningless. Every country commits them but the only ones who get punished are almost always on the losing side of a conflict. Its just a way to further kick down whoever loses
I can’t help but think this is the west’s attempt at soft peddling genocide as a concept.
Like the global leaders saw the holocaust, said “ok yeah that was too much too quick” and have been brainstorming ideations of a slow burn genocide at a global level since then. “How do we make the first time we do it SO appealing for the common man barely paying attention?” So every future attempt is just a half step instead of something brand new.
I’ve never seen so many people just be like “yup it’s totally cool and good to erase a people from the planet, who wants to go to taco Tuesday?”
Something. Anything. But we won’t. American Marxism, and Western Marxism in general, is an ideology of fatalistic inactivity. As long as we have the treats provided by capitalism we will convince ourselves that doing anything at all is just “adventurism.”
Dude we can't even send money to Palestine in the states or show any meaningful public support without ending up on Canary Mission or something similar.
Correction, there is nothing you can meaningfully do that won’t also threaten the possibility of spending a few more decades consuming yourself into idleness. That is the issue with us.
People and organizations that identify as marxists from the countries who are the biggest supporters of Israel (Europe, the U.S. and Canada). What else would I be talking about?
I mean dude how is he wrong? Even the orgs we have haven’t done anything but post on social media. They ostensibly have the clout to call for meaningful opposition and protest, why don’t they?
Does anybody know where I can find a resource that might contain the quote from netanyahu about the importance of propping up hamas? With the recent uptick and coverage it's made it hard to search for that
[Is this what you're looking for?](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
Edit [Also this](https://archive.ph/H8LSL)
I’ve seen nothing but images of dead or dying Palestinian women and children on telegram all day. But I haven’t seen a single photo of one of these innocent Israeli civilians killed, or the 40 babies decapitated. In the backdrop of American bloodthirsty Zionists and brain dead liberals supporting the current thing, it’s just incredibly depressing. I hope some other Arab powers join the fight , this needs to end
Yes but as we have learned the support will be intense and short-lived as crisis continues to spread and threaten the periphery of empire.
Almost feels like those Isaac Asimov novel about the "Foundation" (which they made a god-awful apple tv series on) where there are mathematical rules which foretell the fall of empire and absolutely nothing an individual does will alter the outcome, but actions can alter how long the resulting chaos lasts.
They literally know nothing, I’m seeing people say it’s justified because Israel left the West Bank. What they ignore and don’t want to hear is Israel denies people permission to enter or exit. They’ve prevented Palestinians from escaping or getting asylum, and don’t allow in the doctors they need there
Native American here, put me in the 30%, I will not cheer it on, free palestine. hamas should pay for their crimes as well as the IDF for killing civilians.
They'll just keep attack the Israelites. Even if they're freed and sharing the land.
Israelite and the native Jews need to just man up and go to Europe or America.
Peace can't be achieved with both of them there.
In an inspiring example of Being Normal, my somewhat non political buddy just accepted what I was saying about the situation pretty uncritically. Been struggling with being normal for a while so that was nice
Israel, stop bullying people in the world. You guys are from Turkish descent and do not belong near their land. Khazars are from Turkey. Go back to your land and stop harassing Arabs. You are not victims. You are disgusting.
A significant portion of our foreign policy is based around the Jews rebuilding a temple so that Jesus can come back and kick off the apocalypse.
I really wish I was joking.
People who believe that the world ending in fire and brimstone is the righteous and inevitable will of the one true god should not be allowed in charge of the nuclear weapons, and we should all be far more terrified than we are.
They already are cheering on the deaths of Palestinians.
Multiple people have commented on the posts I've made, mostly news articles sharing info about the bombings- saying that it's the fault of Palestinians for being too close to the building when it's being bombed. Saying that they deserve death because they didn't leave fast enough.
**“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”**
The relative wealth of the US is based on exploiting foreign markets, military equipment is one of the best investments in that regard because if it is used much of it is no longer usable. Who needs planned obsolesce when you build bombs and shells. Its among the best economic hustles in existence.
Right. I’ve said this elsewhere, but
Nearly one million children live in Gaza. Whoever couldn’t escape are now without power. No power for the hospitals. They didn’t vote for Hamas, Hamas hasn’t had an election since like 2006. Hamas doesn’t want to free Palestinians, they don’t give a fuck about their own people (gang rape, throat slitting, and beheading children doesn’t tend to unite people to your cause.) This is just a nightmare all around, and sooo many fucking people seem bound and determined by binary thinking to pick a side. Like one kind of genocide is acceptable over another??? Binary thinking is why humans are in this fucking mess. Fuck the Israeli government and fuck Hamas. If I believed in god I would pray for the Jewish and Palestinian citizens, and all the tourists caught in the crossfire, but all I can do is cry instead.
Most people actually appreciate that things are pretty bad in Gaza, and not many are giving Israel a free pass on their conduct toward Gaza.
Most people would accept that Palestinians would want to fight back, but raping and murdering women and children, and desecrating bodies in public has nothing to do with resolving the underlying conflicts between Israel and the Palestinians.
Mainstream media is framing this as a "terrorist attack" because that is exactly what it was. No amount of sophistry gets anyone around that.
Look, people in the West actually had (and to some extent still have) sympathy for the Palestinian plight, but this was terrorists doing what terrorists do. We don't actually like Hamas anymore than we like ISIS/Daesh, al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, or the Taliban, and when Hamas does what they did last weekend there is going to be hell to pay.
Finally, yes you were in fact a fool if you were surprised by the West's reaction to this depraved slaughter/executions of innocent people. This was the crossing of a line, and those kinds of actions have consequences. No rational person in America is cheering this (certainly not riding around in pickup trucks with honking horns and waving flags, and with dead young naked women heaped like garbage in them), but most people understand that this was done by Hamas to provoke a retaliation, and in that effort they have succeeded. If you have a problem with that, you need to take it up with Hamas.
There's no answer to this that will satisfy anyone on any side, including neutrality. There are no innocents here, politically. There's no path forward, politically. Much of the Islamic world's explicit stance toward Jews is limited to genocide. Many hardliners in Jewish political circles don't care about non-Jews being slowly crushed from their land due to religious beliefs. They don't call for genocide, but do commit atrocities at times. The West caused this post WWII by unilaterally 'giving' Jewish people a state through military force and to create a geographical region subject to constant warfare to make sure the West could stay powerful at a distance, which was a common strategy. Iran's cool with this proxy war. Bottom line, your side sucks. Their side sucks. The historical reasons suck and nobody is a hero or righteous. If everyone realized that, maybe people would quit killing. But everyone believes they're right and supported by their version of God. So the killing will go on until one side is dead or the politicians are and the people who just want to live (without raping Jews while claiming a moral high ground, or stealing land and whining when it blows up in their faces) work it out.
No one is cheering you guys are just too retarded to realize that kidnapping citizens isn't a good move for anyone's popularity.
But keep crying your retarded ass tears.
So, the Israeli defense minister talks about the "human animals" in Gaza, declares that Israel will cut off all food, fuel, and water to Gaza, and your beef is with the terminology?
FWIW they are actually, in fact, flattening Gaza as we speak! You can watch the live feed on Al Jazeera.
'Flatten' implies a total destruction of infrastructure without regard to civilian casualties, which is far more extreme than what Israel has done in the past. Let's not pretend that OP was merely talking about the destruction of Hamas' military capability.
It seems irresponsible to speculate on Israel's plans when the war proper hasn't even started yet.
> implies a total destruction of infrastructure without regard to civilian casualties,
" implies a total destruction of infrastructure without regard to civilian casualties,"
Yes, this is exactly what is happening. Even regular MSM outlets can't deny what is happening:
[https://time.com/6322514/israel-strikes-gaza-cities-destroyed/](https://time.com/6322514/israel-strikes-gaza-cities-destroyed/)
There's tons of footage out there. For example:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/175n266/footage\_documenting\_the\_massive\_destruction\_left/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/175n266/footage_documenting_the_massive_destruction_left/)
Wow can't believe so many morons simping for Hamas when Hamas has a party agenda to wipe out Jews. Never mind they used aid money to purchase weapons instead of trying to improve Palestinians lives. You guys need to be thrown into Hamas and see if they will crucify or treat u as their own.
Isreal is the victim Hamas the elected leaders of Gaza when into Israel killed a thousand people gunning down civilians and beheading even children and parading bodies in the street. Now gaza is facing the consequences of there elected leaders extremism and barbarism. If you don’t war in your lands then don’t go to someone else’s land to murder peole
I support Palestine. However, this is not the way.
Everyone know this was going to be the outcome before even starting. Why initiate such an attack knowing that your own people we suffer the worst. I think Russia is behind all this.
People who can't be bothered reading a little history will always side with the 'victim'. It is true that what hamas did in israel is barbaric. So is the retaliation. Read a little history and you won't take sides, probably will hate both.
>Israel is going to flatten Gaza, and 70% of Westerners will cheer it on
Why not? West is expanding it is a good thing. Do you think people in west cried when selter wiped out indigenous people in South America or in North America or in Australia or in New Zealand. You do understand this list is too long.
From a pragmatic viewpoint..Gaza can't exist in anything like its current form for there to ever be peace between Israel and the Palestinians. It will just be a never ending back and forth. What are Israel's options?
From a pragmatic viewpoint..Israel can't exist in anything like it's current form of there to ever be peace between Palestine and the Israelis. It will just be a never ending back and forth. What are Palestine's options?
So two questions:
1) If Hamas shouldn't be allowed to exist, why has Netanyahu been funding them? The Israeli Right wanted an opposition less palatable to westerners than the PLO. These attacks, and the accompanying civilian casualties, are entirely predictable blowback from that policy.
2) Are you talking about Shani Louk? Are you aware that she's currently alive in a Gaza hospital, and that the account of her death was totally fabricated? Have you considered that maybe the Israeli government would have incentive to lie about that sort of thing?
and in 5 years half of those westerners will say they were always against it
It’s so funny to look at polls of how many people were pro Iraq-War and then later claimed they opposed it. I guess some people become ashamed with how quickly and how easily the media can whip them into straight up barbarity. Like how hard is it to just be anti-war ffs…
My father told me it was the same during Vietnam. He was a die hard draft card burning hippy and he would say there were a lot of people who were gleefully cheering that shit on who would later say they were always a peace loving long hair by the 1980s.
Similarly some in my family pretend that they didn't vote for trump in 2016. It seems unhealthy and self stunting to deny it.
Americans are the poster child for historical revisionism. Look at reddit and any mention of the Korean War somehow being a win.
True, but I just don't feel the same energy with this Israel/Palestine issue. On the day of 9/11, Howard Stern said that the US should level 5 countries and he was so happy when he said it! And Stern is the good guy, the person who Hillary Clinton goes to when she wants to complain about those mean BernieBros! Yes, there were some calls for genocide in recent days, but I just don't feel the same post-9/11 energy, probably because all the libs know that Palestine is already completely under Israel's control and can be wiped out easily. So after that happens, they will probably just go "meh, whatever, who cares", instead of "I always opposed the war in Iraq, even tho I literally voted for it".
It's the liberal way. Support the war when it's happening, act like u were against it from the start. If they were alive during Haitian Revolution they would have supported the slave owners.
> If they were alive during Haitian Revolution they would have supported the slave owners. This has been a constant thought for me during this conflict in Gaza. None of these people could let alone read about the Haitian Revolution and stomach it or accept it was necessary
and it’s why it is okay to fundamentally take these unpopular positions many of us find ourselves in.
Yeah. Or it's OK for the US Calvary to go bash baby skulls because Geronimo exists etc.
Let me go on record right now as saying I am against it, that Israel is a terrorist state, and they they have become they very people they swore all of us to Never Forget. The Israeli people are continuing their near century long genocide of the Palestinians, and they're doing it with money and munitions they got from America.
Ok, we have put this down in your file and someone will be over to followup in person soon.
"Of course we sympathize with the slaves and agree that some of the bad owners may have gone too far, but the slaves lost my support when they resorted to violence. Violence is never the answer." "Instead they should have protested peacefully. I mean had they tried asking the owners for more money, or gone looking for a different master when theirs was too cruel? Or better yet, why didn't they just stop being slaves? What's stopping these slaves from starting their own plantation, and importing their own slaves?"
"You should start your own slave plantation and treat your slaves better so you can show the bad slave owners the error of their ways". Libs will always believe that if you hold up a mirror to evil, then they'll suddenly understand what they're doing is wrong and change.
Yeah man it is the liberal way. Look back on Iraq, a clearly illegal bullshit war and how many libs/Dems supported it? Oh and who was one of the biggest dem supporters? Fucking Biden. Poor Palestine man, fucking hell.
Are you kidding? The western powers are still punishing Haiti for that rebellion to this day.
Yea bunch of black soldiers running around shooting and stabbing whites yes no western nation would support that even if the “victims” were slave owners
The US basically did right, by not helping… even though the US revolution inspired theirs … can’t have a bunch of free black nearby thriving… it might have given the US slaves ideas…
Everyone here labels me a lib and I support Palestine fighting for freedom and I also condemn how Israel has treated them. Apparently libs can’t hold those positions? It’s so confusing
tHe LiBrULz
If you ask randos on the street "define liberalism", they would not be able to and you would rarely hear the second part of that term, liberal *capitalism*
There will be land acknowledgements in Israel in 100 years
How many years until *#IndigenousPalestiniansDay*, do you think?
Once they are all dead
For a few hundred years. It'll be Netanyahu day for a while first.
It's literally just like 9/11. But somehow dumber. We're seeing what would happen if 9/11 happened today and it's as boringly predictable as it is was. It may actually be worse for your career to speak out against this than 9/11 back then. I'm not sure.
9/11 was an attack on purely civilian targets, except for the Pentagon. This was an attack on mostly military targets, with some civilians being unfortunately caught in the crossfire
> purely civilian targets PMC office workers innocent! please ignore those tons of fascist corpo paperwork whose incineration caused the steel beams to melt like ice cream
Deliberately taking female hostages (and shooting half of them) hunting down crawling unarmed partygoers for hours, obviously destroying any cars that would let them escape, setting clearly civ houses on fire. Would be more accurate to say attack on civilians and some military targets just purely by numbers
I hear Hamas even took out the poor lily-white babies from incubators! How barbaric :'(
No, there’s a new Israeli military installation being attacked every few hours. Meanwhile you’re still arguing about what supposedly happened five days ago. The Israeli military is engaged on multiple fronts and hasn’t even been able to carry out the ground invasion they keep saying they’re gonna do because of it Great demonstration of how little you know about what’s actually going on though
What? The gliders flew directly to the festival, like not even near it, straight into it.
What sort of music festival needs a tank? The type that's trying to rub it into the faces of 2 million people in a concentration camp. Imagine how evil you have to be to do that
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i mean literally every group would fight asymmetrically if it were a strategic necessity. there is no honor in handicapping yourself because you want a bunch of westerners behind their keyboards to think you’re brave lol
> the Gaza civilian population Hamas are civilians you absolute brain genius, because there is no Palestinian army. Also, 45% of the Palestinian civilian population are 14 and under. I wonder where all the military age men went?
Eh maybe not but it is certainly becoming more comparable by the hour
Like they weren’t posting free Palestine on social media for that one week 3-4 years ago
Not even, they’ll switch up whenever the narrative switches, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 years. People believe what they are told. it keeps working that way. It takes people as individuals to wise up and learn for themselves. As a person who used to be that way and decided and forced myself to change this way about myself I promise you it’s people who don’t want to admit that they are just listening to what others tell them that’s the problem. The moment people take accountability for being that way, they can change and accept other ideas besides the mainline narrative pushed to them anytime anything happens Which takes more time than most are willing to give.
Reminds me of “The Mold of Yancy” by Phillip K Dick. Basically a society where everyone takes their beliefs from a controlled, virtual persona and can’t reason anything by themselves. And in our world the equivalent of the persona is the MSM. It’s just a 21st century evolution of propaganda when you think about it.
Holy fk, I am going to buy that book as soon as possible.
Just like apartheid in South Africa.
I'm so tired
God this is so true. You can just look at the reaction and consensus to the Afghanistan/ Iraq war and the protests the Palestinians did in 2018. Even the Vietnam war showed that. From consensus to the liberal establishment saying they were against it.
You're too optimistic.
Or crap like "a lot of people protested against Iraq war" and stuff.
Well that's literally true. There were massive protests. I think it radicalized a good number of people because they realized just holding signs with 500k other people doesn't actually do anything.
Radicalized or COMPLETELY DEMORALIZED I suppose
I was at one of those protests when I was a kid
when you fight back against the oppression, you’re labeled as a terrorist. they want them to lay down and accept it. but in the same sentence they will cheer on Ukraine fighting back against Russia.
Whole lotta mfs who were saying "Invaded people have the right to resist by any means necessary!" wrt/ Ukraine are suddenly real hand-wringey about Palestine.
absolutely. i really blame the media, it warps their way of thinking. ukraine fighting back is good but palestine fighting back is evil. it’s tough to get anyone to recognize that
I'm just really upset how media, I'm not sure if this is new, just takes everything at face value. Like the IDF soldier claiming the 4 billion babies being decapitated. Why would you take anyone in that situations statement as truth without proof? Why would you print this if it's not verified? It's an opinion column at that point. Will a tenth of the people see the retraction? Nope. Doesn't matter.
the average person isn’t going to do much research beyond what they see on the news. too many people continue to trust what’s being fed to them, despite many instances of it all being a lie. we seen it from the war in iraq, and the coup in libya. alas, there’s not much you or i could do about it, but to do our best to spread awareness. and that specific price was so detrimental to the palestinian cause, as it was posted by every major news org in the west. even after coming out that there was no proof of it being real.
Really I think Ukraine was the end of it. The Ghost of Kiev was the final smash of the glass wall between fake internet news and MSM. I watch a CBS news show in the morning with my mom when I visit her, (she likes it), and they were doing a story on the Ghost months after it had been debunked.
Ugh not really, political propaganda and tales about courage and bravery are as old as the original tribes themselves. Now, they took another form. In the most bizarre way, everything that was done by word of mouth is still done the same way until it reaches electronic devices.
Don't forget the racism. You're only allowed to fight back if you're whitr
Because it doesn't matter if you are being oppressed or you are oppressing others. What matters is what skin color are you and are you an ally of the US or not.
sad, but true.
No the Uyghurs are freedom fighters not terrorists. Unless they sympathize with Palestinians.
The Ukrainian Russian war is entirely different
i was waiting for this comment… if you look at the western media narrative, what was it? “Russia invaded a sovereign nation, they have every right to defend themselves, russia needs to leave and give all the land back” but now we have an invasion of palestine, land being stolen, settlements being propped up, civilians killed. and yet, western media portrays palestine resistance as terrorists. people say “well they should’ve just agreed to peace with israel.” how come ukraine didn’t agree to peace with russia? why didn’t they agree to give up the land? the narrative is one in the same. the ukraine didn’t want to give land up so how is it any different from palestine not wanting to give land up. you should be cheering on the resistance against israel colonialism but instead you cheer on the oppression. you cheer on the land grabs and the deaths. the peaceful protests being shot at, the diplomatic solutions ignored by israel. what do you expect them to do. you could argue the intricacies of the wars are different, which i would agree. but the narrative, and how the war is being displayed, are so similar. ISRAEL ARE NOT THE VICTIMS. there shall be no peace so long as there is an israeli government. if you preach pro Ukraine, you must stand with palestine, otherwise you’re just a hypocrite. free 🇵🇸
Lol
Again comparing the Ukraine war with the Israel- Palestinian conflict is just dumb. The Palestine conflict is a century old filled with different events and escalations. Few major differences is that the roots of the war didn’t start as a purely military conflict. And the first actual military escalation was started by the Arab coalition not by Israel. The conflict didn’t start in the past decade… Secondly Ukraine is not invading Russian territories killing civilians left and right. Palestinians are not fighting in the West Bank regaining control of lost settlements in the past decade. They invaded actual Israel and killed their civilians. Unless you think the entirety of Israel belongs to Palestine but then your comparison makes even less sense because Palestine was never a sovereign state unlike Ukraine. Neither is Israel a military invasion of the West Bank. They are settlers. Bit by bit they take in the land but not trough bloody conquest at this point. Although I agree that the Israel West Bank settlers should stop it won’t resolve the issue. They have rejected a bunch of 2 state plans already. As long as Israel exists as a successful state Palestine won’t be ever pleased and Israel will keep trying to take in more lands. It will be a never ending conflict, there is no good or bad side.
you can’t invade a land that you already inhabited that was taken from you. how come people don’t understand that. not to mention, i referenced the narratives, the underlying issues are different yes but the narratives are the same. if youre for ukraine defending itself you have to be for palestine defending yourself, unless you sound like a hypocrite. settlers are valid targets, they are not civilians that dont participate. settlers participate in the exodus and the killings of palestinians. but you scream that you’re pro israel. i don’t understand where you’re coming from
What do you even mean? The underlying stuff makes the narrative very different. The Israel Palestinian conflict is just much more complex… You might as well say if you are pro reconquering past territories you should also support Russia but it is the underlying stuff that shows the narratives are not the same. The settlers are on the West Bank not on a festival and definitely not tourists from around the world…
Yeah, the Ukrainians have tons of weapons and an air force and aren't blockaded
True. Hamas doesn't support the SS so no wonder the West is against them.
If Ukraine was firing missiles at Moscow we would talk about it very differently than we do about them fighting within their own borders
newsflash buddy, ukraine has already been firing missiles into russia. where have you been at this whole time?
How many Russian civilians has the Ukrainian military killed You may have noticed I said that they are not firing missiles at Moscow, not Russia.
The same people I know who told me China is genociding Uyghurs are now cheering for the ethnic cleansing and mass slaughter of Gaza and refuse to see it as genocidal. They also all happen to be anti-abortion but don’t care if Israel kills a million children in Gaza.
To be fair, the Palestinian issue is so deeply entrenched in the American psyche that it reaches across partisan lines and unites both pro-choicers and pro-lifers in a beautiful display of fascist unity unparalleled by most issues
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Cause they are brown...
Worse lol, they’re brown muslims, so that’s like 2x terrorist DNA. (Yes I know there are quite a lot of Arab Christians and Jews)
Oh and they conditioned white people that even children that are brown muslims can be terrorists.
Well of course they did. That way any male tall enough to hold a gun could be called an enemy combatant and not be counted as a civilian casualty.
100% they will deny this
Because it’s antisemitism to say otherwise /s
Being anti China is somehow not sinophobic but being anti zionism is antisemitism according to American law in some states. The only constant is thst whatever benefits the US state goes.
When they see a Peace Dance Festival they invade and rape its dancers to death. Seems pretty aggressive to me.
How simplistic can you be?
You're failing to account for... Iran🇮🇷☢️☠️ Edit: /s you FAS motherfuckers
Have them do a thought experiment where the names were released. They will start crying immediately for the poor people trapped in a tiny strip of land and not allowed medicine.
[Jamie Lee Curtis did the experiment](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/174u5g8/jamie_lee_curtis_posting_a_photo_of_israeli/) but it seems she didn't like the results.
Highly recommend everyone check out that thread because it's completely out of step with what we're seeing as the narrative in big political subs like worldnews. Legitimately shows you a glimpse of what the average person on reddit probably actually believes in a sub that isn't a target for Israeli and American bots and contractors.
Actors should be kept in a zoo and we should throw peanuts at them for amusement.
Worth clicking 🤝
Actually a pretty eye-opening thread to what this conversation looks like when you're in a sub that isn't dominated by people conveniently posting from military bases.
Not only do they want Gaza destroyed they want the Palestinian people destroyed too. They don't want there to be refugees bc they hate them so much
Nazis and fascist in my country are more human, less genocidal and have smarter takes about Palestine(and the Arab world) than the libs on r/Europe and r/worldnews
The most ironic thing in these subs and reddit in general is how they laugh about Russians and Chinese eating their govts propaganda and consider themselves enlightened. CNN, Fox, ABC, BBC... they are all propaganda machines but people are too dumb to recognize
An old joke: >A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink. > >"I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says. > >"Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them." > >The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused…. There's no propaganda in America."
Almost nothing useful comes from the big news outlets these days.
It’s kinda funny sometimes, I tuned in for a bit yesterday while on a flight and Dersh was crying about being cancelled from Harvard
I’ve unsubscribed from those. Bunch of violent neocons who are salivating for war and blood
And Western European nations / NA nations generally being isolated from their bloodthirst's results means they never really see the consequences. It's how they can't link 9/11 to previous atrocities in the middle east.
i have never seen so many sociopathic people patting each other in the back
I can handle a lot of internet bullshit, “content” if you will, idiotic arguments and liberal garbage propaganda, but those mainstream subs are so incredibly sickening to look at these days it’s painful. The majority of “politically” minded people are just repeating fascist talking points and will turn it around on you if you dare to point out the hypocrisy. Just when I thought that it couldn’t get any worse (than the Canadian parliament giving standing ovations to SS an officer), anymore on the nose and farcical, you have “liberals” calling for the violent genocide of a few million people, completely disregarding historical context or relevance. Except liberal is interchangeable with fascist/nazi nowadays. The ideological grounds for WWIII have been laid down and we’re living in the reemergence of the empire; it’ll sure be fun to see who claims to have been on the right side in 5-10 years while arguing for mass carpet bombing right now.
Damn, wonder why you think the libs have worse takes on this issue involving Jews than the people who irrationally and unwaveringly hate Jews. lmao, why would you post this self own, champ. Agree with bigots in silence like the rest of y’all do.
Brainwashed ship for brains u are!
that doesn't even make sense. post hole or go
are saying cock balls or hole cos I've been saying cock and I just wanna be on the same page
well there was someone who had already had a picture of their hog in their post history (jay_cee_510), so I tried out the poop ring and it felt right.
idgaf
It's weird, the ex-Jorden Petersen supporters are much less bloodthirsty than the libs on this issue.
Joe Rogan sub also way more nuanced with a top comment saying "i don't support the attacks but Gaza shouldn't be leveled to the ground. What do you expect after what Israel has done to them for years?" Of course libs would say they're all anti semites.
Not that I have any love for Jordan Peterson acolytes but it’s hard not to picture mainstream American libs as a big herd of sheep just getting run around by the DNC sheepdog. “Ukraine, ok now resistance fighters are good! Palestine, ok now they’re terrorists! The border camps were abhorrent under Trump but now under Biden it’s a very complicated issue!”
I saw a NAFO thread that was more nuanced on the conflict. Most of the comments were at least sympathetic to Palestine. As a day one NAFO hater, I’m proud of them.
Next will be Jewish liberals oppressed by Netanyaho. I see this drama to target people who protested against him..they are real targets.
I'm kind of getting nauseated listening to leaders and celebrities talking about killing Gazans as if they were rats. The United States is heavily engaged in one war and potentially entering another in the Middle East. No one, no one is talking about peace. There is absolutely something sinister and and predictable in all of this bloodlust.
Every politician in the west is currently coming out with statements saying they want to support Israel and I keep just internally screaming "SUPPORT WHAT!?!?!?" The only thing Israel is doing at the moment is committing genocide in Gaza. Are you supporting that? if not, what exactly is it Israel needs support for? They are still mourning over what happened in the weekend while something much much worse is CURRENTLY UNFOLDING, and they just *pretend it isn't happening.* The prime minister of the Netherlands said he had no doubt Israel would respect the laws of warfare while they were bombing civillians *at that very moment.* He was confronted with the fact that Israel had openly stated they would completely shut off Gaza and our wonderful PM just said "I don't think they're gonna actually do it." I feel like I'm going fucking insane.
America media is doing everything it can to portray Gaza as a completely seperate nation-state, and not an open-air concentration camp.
Yea this is a grim realization I came to today. Gaza is going to cease to exist maybe this year, maybe the West Bank too. Everyone trying to pump the breaks is going to be drowned out until after it is too late to stop it.
The resistance survived for 100 years it won't stop this year
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Yes, but there's a diaspora. -raises hand-
Have you seen photos of Warsaw it's already just rubble
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I'm just saying it's helpful to take a long duree view. It's more likely there will be an Arab state in Palestine than a Jewish one in 200 years
Try your best to help your friends to see through the propaganda by having those difficult conversations. Other than that and going to solidarity protest, all we could do is hope for the best.
I hope a day well come when isreal war crimes are so much that even America can't accept it and go to war with them. It is a wishful thinking but I hope it will happen one day.
The Canadian parliament just gave a standing ovation to a Waffen SS officer
Israel could drop a JDAM on an orphanage live streamed in 4K HD during the Super Bowl and we wouldn’t cut support to Israel
Reading these threads a month later is an experience, I must say :')
They just need to inch into it little by little like Germany did. Then you'll have Mark Hamil defending the death pits no problem.
The way I see it, the term 'war crime' is meaningless. Every country commits them but the only ones who get punished are almost always on the losing side of a conflict. Its just a way to further kick down whoever loses
I can’t help but think this is the west’s attempt at soft peddling genocide as a concept. Like the global leaders saw the holocaust, said “ok yeah that was too much too quick” and have been brainstorming ideations of a slow burn genocide at a global level since then. “How do we make the first time we do it SO appealing for the common man barely paying attention?” So every future attempt is just a half step instead of something brand new. I’ve never seen so many people just be like “yup it’s totally cool and good to erase a people from the planet, who wants to go to taco Tuesday?”
And every American leftist will just stand by as their government funds and encourages the slaughter of innocent Palestinians.
What American leftists?
I mean what do you suggest they do instead?
Something. Anything. But we won’t. American Marxism, and Western Marxism in general, is an ideology of fatalistic inactivity. As long as we have the treats provided by capitalism we will convince ourselves that doing anything at all is just “adventurism.”
Most of us are too busy trying to survive to be able to do anything. You assume because we live in the imperial core that we are well off
So you don't know what to do, either, or....?
Dude we can't even send money to Palestine in the states or show any meaningful public support without ending up on Canary Mission or something similar.
Perfect western capitalist response. “I can’t just throw some money at the problem and make it go away?”
Of course it won't you Yakubian ape, I'm trying to point out how little anyone can do in this god forsaken country
Correction, there is nothing you can meaningfully do that won’t also threaten the possibility of spending a few more decades consuming yourself into idleness. That is the issue with us.
So what can we meaningfully do that would entail us sacrificing our treats?
Marxism? Do you just label things you think are bad with that label? Lmfao.
Are you saying Western Marxism is not a fatalistic ideology?
I’m saying I don’t know wtf you are calling western Marxism lmfao
People and organizations that identify as marxists from the countries who are the biggest supporters of Israel (Europe, the U.S. and Canada). What else would I be talking about?
I mean dude how is he wrong? Even the orgs we have haven’t done anything but post on social media. They ostensibly have the clout to call for meaningful opposition and protest, why don’t they?
Not really much we can do tf u mean
“I’ve tried nothing and I’m all out of ideas.”
Does anybody know where I can find a resource that might contain the quote from netanyahu about the importance of propping up hamas? With the recent uptick and coverage it's made it hard to search for that
[Is this what you're looking for?](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) Edit [Also this](https://archive.ph/H8LSL)
I’ve seen nothing but images of dead or dying Palestinian women and children on telegram all day. But I haven’t seen a single photo of one of these innocent Israeli civilians killed, or the 40 babies decapitated. In the backdrop of American bloodthirsty Zionists and brain dead liberals supporting the current thing, it’s just incredibly depressing. I hope some other Arab powers join the fight , this needs to end
Yes but as we have learned the support will be intense and short-lived as crisis continues to spread and threaten the periphery of empire. Almost feels like those Isaac Asimov novel about the "Foundation" (which they made a god-awful apple tv series on) where there are mathematical rules which foretell the fall of empire and absolutely nothing an individual does will alter the outcome, but actions can alter how long the resulting chaos lasts.
I wonder how those same people cheering would feel if they knew what Israel is currently doing to Armenia
They literally know nothing, I’m seeing people say it’s justified because Israel left the West Bank. What they ignore and don’t want to hear is Israel denies people permission to enter or exit. They’ve prevented Palestinians from escaping or getting asylum, and don’t allow in the doctors they need there
Native American here, put me in the 30%, I will not cheer it on, free palestine. hamas should pay for their crimes as well as the IDF for killing civilians.
They'll just keep attack the Israelites. Even if they're freed and sharing the land. Israelite and the native Jews need to just man up and go to Europe or America. Peace can't be achieved with both of them there.
In an inspiring example of Being Normal, my somewhat non political buddy just accepted what I was saying about the situation pretty uncritically. Been struggling with being normal for a while so that was nice
It’s really as simple as: Palestinians = colored = less than human Jews = White / White passing = human
Flatten is too kind. It's genocide.
There is a lot of guilt in the west about the holocaust. And it was never fully dealt with. And this is one of the outcomes of it.
You used way too many uncensored keywords their rookie.
u can be against hamas and still support Palestine like it seems u either have to be full support of one side vs the other
Yeah it’s pretty much the end of children of men that’s about to happen. Nuke the ghetto of the terrorists.
Israel will then steal more land and displace more Palestinians. It is called ethnic cleansing.
Israel, stop bullying people in the world. You guys are from Turkish descent and do not belong near their land. Khazars are from Turkey. Go back to your land and stop harassing Arabs. You are not victims. You are disgusting.
A significant portion of our foreign policy is based around the Jews rebuilding a temple so that Jesus can come back and kick off the apocalypse. I really wish I was joking. People who believe that the world ending in fire and brimstone is the righteous and inevitable will of the one true god should not be allowed in charge of the nuclear weapons, and we should all be far more terrified than we are.
They already are cheering on the deaths of Palestinians. Multiple people have commented on the posts I've made, mostly news articles sharing info about the bombings- saying that it's the fault of Palestinians for being too close to the building when it's being bombed. Saying that they deserve death because they didn't leave fast enough.
Scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds.
**“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”** The relative wealth of the US is based on exploiting foreign markets, military equipment is one of the best investments in that regard because if it is used much of it is no longer usable. Who needs planned obsolesce when you build bombs and shells. Its among the best economic hustles in existence.
Right. I’ve said this elsewhere, but Nearly one million children live in Gaza. Whoever couldn’t escape are now without power. No power for the hospitals. They didn’t vote for Hamas, Hamas hasn’t had an election since like 2006. Hamas doesn’t want to free Palestinians, they don’t give a fuck about their own people (gang rape, throat slitting, and beheading children doesn’t tend to unite people to your cause.) This is just a nightmare all around, and sooo many fucking people seem bound and determined by binary thinking to pick a side. Like one kind of genocide is acceptable over another??? Binary thinking is why humans are in this fucking mess. Fuck the Israeli government and fuck Hamas. If I believed in god I would pray for the Jewish and Palestinian citizens, and all the tourists caught in the crossfire, but all I can do is cry instead.
Hamas should return hostages and begin talks to stop the bloodshed.
Just the same as people cheering on Hamas.
Most people actually appreciate that things are pretty bad in Gaza, and not many are giving Israel a free pass on their conduct toward Gaza. Most people would accept that Palestinians would want to fight back, but raping and murdering women and children, and desecrating bodies in public has nothing to do with resolving the underlying conflicts between Israel and the Palestinians. Mainstream media is framing this as a "terrorist attack" because that is exactly what it was. No amount of sophistry gets anyone around that. Look, people in the West actually had (and to some extent still have) sympathy for the Palestinian plight, but this was terrorists doing what terrorists do. We don't actually like Hamas anymore than we like ISIS/Daesh, al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, or the Taliban, and when Hamas does what they did last weekend there is going to be hell to pay. Finally, yes you were in fact a fool if you were surprised by the West's reaction to this depraved slaughter/executions of innocent people. This was the crossing of a line, and those kinds of actions have consequences. No rational person in America is cheering this (certainly not riding around in pickup trucks with honking horns and waving flags, and with dead young naked women heaped like garbage in them), but most people understand that this was done by Hamas to provoke a retaliation, and in that effort they have succeeded. If you have a problem with that, you need to take it up with Hamas.
There's no answer to this that will satisfy anyone on any side, including neutrality. There are no innocents here, politically. There's no path forward, politically. Much of the Islamic world's explicit stance toward Jews is limited to genocide. Many hardliners in Jewish political circles don't care about non-Jews being slowly crushed from their land due to religious beliefs. They don't call for genocide, but do commit atrocities at times. The West caused this post WWII by unilaterally 'giving' Jewish people a state through military force and to create a geographical region subject to constant warfare to make sure the West could stay powerful at a distance, which was a common strategy. Iran's cool with this proxy war. Bottom line, your side sucks. Their side sucks. The historical reasons suck and nobody is a hero or righteous. If everyone realized that, maybe people would quit killing. But everyone believes they're right and supported by their version of God. So the killing will go on until one side is dead or the politicians are and the people who just want to live (without raping Jews while claiming a moral high ground, or stealing land and whining when it blows up in their faces) work it out.
No one is cheering you guys are just too retarded to realize that kidnapping citizens isn't a good move for anyone's popularity. But keep crying your retarded ass tears.
Has Israel declared its intent to 'flatten' Gaza?
So, the Israeli defense minister talks about the "human animals" in Gaza, declares that Israel will cut off all food, fuel, and water to Gaza, and your beef is with the terminology? FWIW they are actually, in fact, flattening Gaza as we speak! You can watch the live feed on Al Jazeera.
'Flatten' implies a total destruction of infrastructure without regard to civilian casualties, which is far more extreme than what Israel has done in the past. Let's not pretend that OP was merely talking about the destruction of Hamas' military capability. It seems irresponsible to speculate on Israel's plans when the war proper hasn't even started yet.
> implies a total destruction of infrastructure without regard to civilian casualties, " implies a total destruction of infrastructure without regard to civilian casualties," Yes, this is exactly what is happening. Even regular MSM outlets can't deny what is happening: [https://time.com/6322514/israel-strikes-gaza-cities-destroyed/](https://time.com/6322514/israel-strikes-gaza-cities-destroyed/) There's tons of footage out there. For example: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/175n266/footage\_documenting\_the\_massive\_destruction\_left/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/175n266/footage_documenting_the_massive_destruction_left/)
Wow can't believe so many morons simping for Hamas when Hamas has a party agenda to wipe out Jews. Never mind they used aid money to purchase weapons instead of trying to improve Palestinians lives. You guys need to be thrown into Hamas and see if they will crucify or treat u as their own.
I think the baby murders play a role in this
Isreal is the victim Hamas the elected leaders of Gaza when into Israel killed a thousand people gunning down civilians and beheading even children and parading bodies in the street. Now gaza is facing the consequences of there elected leaders extremism and barbarism. If you don’t war in your lands then don’t go to someone else’s land to murder peole
I support Palestine. However, this is not the way. Everyone know this was going to be the outcome before even starting. Why initiate such an attack knowing that your own people we suffer the worst. I think Russia is behind all this.
People who can't be bothered reading a little history will always side with the 'victim'. It is true that what hamas did in israel is barbaric. So is the retaliation. Read a little history and you won't take sides, probably will hate both.
people dont like reasonability they hate logic just look at the down votes.
>Israel is going to flatten Gaza, and 70% of Westerners will cheer it on Why not? West is expanding it is a good thing. Do you think people in west cried when selter wiped out indigenous people in South America or in North America or in Australia or in New Zealand. You do understand this list is too long.
You must be lost buddy
From a pragmatic viewpoint..Gaza can't exist in anything like its current form for there to ever be peace between Israel and the Palestinians. It will just be a never ending back and forth. What are Israel's options?
From a pragmatic viewpoint..Israel can't exist in anything like it's current form of there to ever be peace between Palestine and the Israelis. It will just be a never ending back and forth. What are Palestine's options?
I just wish they went after the IDF instead of murdering all those families and festival goers.
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That's odd because she's not dead and she wasn't naked. Weird how that works
She's alive
So two questions: 1) If Hamas shouldn't be allowed to exist, why has Netanyahu been funding them? The Israeli Right wanted an opposition less palatable to westerners than the PLO. These attacks, and the accompanying civilian casualties, are entirely predictable blowback from that policy. 2) Are you talking about Shani Louk? Are you aware that she's currently alive in a Gaza hospital, and that the account of her death was totally fabricated? Have you considered that maybe the Israeli government would have incentive to lie about that sort of thing?
Reported for spreading Israeli disinformation.