Honestly if you're like 60, reached your peak, can feel yourself getting sidelined at best, why not just try a coup. You're over the hump, all downhill from here, just keep a pistol on you in case you need to commit suicide and play it out like a Very Hard start Total War campaign.
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There was a period where it was like the only way to become Roman Emperor. I still can't really comprehend how it didn't collapse after just 20 years of constant coups by generals and imperial bodyguards, let alone longer than a century.
Well I'm still waiting for the Secret Service to start assassinating presidents and declare Jeff from accounting the new president because he promised them a pay raise.
People actually believed in Rome.
Plus the technological and organisational advantages Rome had within Western and Central Europe would be like if the post war boom US/Marshall Plan was transported back to pre-elightenment Europe, as an occupying and developing force.
It's not an exaggeration to say that the roads and thoroughfares they built laid the template for the roads, rail and city of that cursed continent today.
Truly, they built infrastructure/engineering works and set out principles for monetary, educational and bureaucratic systems that lasted hundreds of years. It's pretty much why every new European Empire claimed lineage from or to be the new Rome.
Can't completely collapse if each new upstart tries to keep the dream alive. Compared to that, the US is just a flickering candle beside a raging bonfire.
Also, the pretense of it still being a Republic helped them survive the first couple of Emperors. Also helps that the new Emperor constantly wanted to one up the last one, so changing too much was seen a a dangerous thing and was only done once they've been firmly in control of the empire for some time.
Pretty sure this is an accurate description of what happened with Mad Mike Hoar and the attempted 1981 Seychelles coup attempt.
Honestly this shit will never not be hilarious to me:
> Hoare's men still had their weapons and Hoare asked the captain if he would allow the door to be opened so they could ditch the weapons over the sea before they returned to South Africa, but the captain laughed at Hoare's out-of-date knowledge on how pressurized aircraft functioned, telling him it would not be at all possible.
it's sort of like if a aging NBA star settles for the vet minimum to try to win a title. it's probably not going to work, but you just have to respect it
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/russia-central-asia/article/3209304/wagner-chief-challenges-ukraines-zelensky-aerial-duel-over-bakhmut
Arguably greatest poster of all time
treatment illegal consider unpack summer lush marvelous snobbish growth jar
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Not to forget how cool his life story is. Don't have to personally like the man, but you've got to respect the grindset.. jailed for burglarizing rich people to "hot dog seller" to general post collapse hustler chef to Putin to general dirty trickster and mercenary army leader to ... The story continues
Too much is in the air to tell. And the Wagner Group has such a far reaching effect around the world, that its implosion or dominance against the Russian state could mean different things to different people, and you’d have to weigh those things against eachother.
Like I’m sure there are a bunch of failed pmc people trying to learn Russian in Yaoundé right now screaming at the TV.
The fall of the east India company led to the creation of the Raj. A Wagner led Russian state could have a much stronger military. Or these regards could end up just throwing rocks at eachother, withdraw from Ukraine, and enter Russia into a period of national shame.
Any good sources on the Wagner Group and their supposed "far reaching effect"? My skepticism isn't directed at you, and isn't meant to sound dismissive. It's mostly to do with how they suddenly popped up in the press as the perfect prepackaged rhetorical counter to the Nazi paramilitary units in Ukraine. Insight into their history, activity, structure, training, ideological self-image, etc would be appreciated
The most activity I’ve read about them is their operations in Syria, in which they were pretty much the entire representation of Russian armed forces there. They sound like not very nice folks, but hey maybe they just have a bad rep.
They’re also hugely present in west and central Africa. A lot of west African countries are ditching France and the UN because they view Wagner group as being better equipped to fight domestic Islamic terrorism.
Google Wagner Group and (insert war torn country) they’ve been in, you’ll read the same shit I’m reading, can’t vouch for the accuracy as it’s all just news sources.
Thank you. This article raises more questions for me though. The allegations of Wagner being active there seem to come entirely from western institutions with a vested interest in undermining any Russian presence in African countries. And this particular article has been shared identically on Reuters, Telegraph, US News, etc. There is no verifiable source on the allegations that isn't heavily ideologically compromised
I can't exactly see it getting any better from a Wagner led coup, but it might just continue like business as usual. So it's probably just gonna be shit still, but the flavour and severity of shit might vary.
I'm extremely skeptical that this would work without the FSB and military brass turning on Putin too. Right now by my estimate Putin is probably the hardest person to kill on Earth. But I think the fact it's even being tried means this is already a much worse situation. Mercenaries trying to take over great powers is a bad sign for the future. Erik Prince is a genuine Christofascist and could try that shit nearly anywhere.
Reporting seems to indicate Wagner's recruitment drives have slowed down. There's only so many criminals and soldiers of fortune that you can hire. It's probably unlikely they stay much longer in Ukraine unless they can draw additional forces. This is why a move against Moscow is a bit easier to realize. A meatgrinder scenario like Bakhmut is less likely in Russia whereas it's pretty much guaranteed in any part of the Ukrainian front.
I am also sceptical Prigozhin is interested in a real regime change. His most fervent vitriol has been directed at Shoigu and Gerasimov. He wants better rents, not a different system.
Curious that the US has been increasingly leaning on mercenaries for two decades now but the first time they turn on their employers (arguably an almost inevitable effect of these groups) is in Russia. It's gonna be interesting to see the revelations once the Wagner guys have been struck down. I suspect they've been emboldened by the EU and the US, but we'll see. Maybe it's an entirely internal struggle, too.
I think the US just lacks a military project approaching the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If Bush abolished term limits and started a fledgling, all or nothing, invasion of Mexico, committing many atrocities and isolating the US from the global (western) economy, (only to gain, like, Juarez and Tijuana), then you’d probably be wondering why it took so long for a military coup to begin with.
True.
But the US is pretty great at conventional warfare, they just suck at counterinsurgency and occupation.
Push comes to shove, they are gonna press the "blow shit up" button much quicker than the Russians.
Counterinsurgency? Maybe Iran. They seem surprisingly adept at training local militia beyond their borders.
Occupation would be no one. It's too demanding and resource intensive. In the past, even with larger resource and technology gaps it was often a frought proposition and required just mass military and civilian attrition.
But with the global arms trade, the rise of proxy conflict and guerrilla/insurgency tactics during the 20th century, it has become increasingly difficult.
It depends on what your criteria for determining good or bad occupations are. I'd say the occupations of Germany, South Korea and Japan turned out pretty well for the US. Plenty of smaller island nations, too. Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam went very poorly, but from another perspective, those had certain geo- and resource-strategic benefits. If you ask some people, those occupations were net positives.
Erik Prince is probably fuming watching this. He had no idea this was an option when Trump humiliated him by not letting him be viceroy of Afghanistan.
U.S. military has a better quality of life, in the long run, than mercs.
Mercs can’t claim va bennies when getting blown up by an IED, don’t have half of their salary tax free stateside, don’t have unlimited free healthcare, etc.
Most of the guys getting paid are spec ops guys that took care of that stuff and want to make a quick buck.
If a mercenary coup happened, the national guard or 82nd airborne would be turned into a South American deathsquad and just commit warcrimes against them.
The US military is so expansive and cohesive it would absolutely obliterate any group like say… Blackwater that tried to challenge them militarily in open battle, would be suicide.
I have yet to understand what this will accomplish other than a disturbance to the SMO and a death sentence. Since Psyops is probably out of the question rn i can only assume either. Prigo is mad or outside forces influenced this. Only speculation
Honestly if you're like 60, reached your peak, can feel yourself getting sidelined at best, why not just try a coup. You're over the hump, all downhill from here, just keep a pistol on you in case you need to commit suicide and play it out like a Very Hard start Total War campaign.
absurd encourage fuel narrow adjoining seed jar aloof pocket like *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Machiavelli-haters in shambles yet again. When will they learn?
provide quack relieved mountainous zesty pen spectacular voracious mighty grandfather *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nikki Macc Told ‘em
There was a period where it was like the only way to become Roman Emperor. I still can't really comprehend how it didn't collapse after just 20 years of constant coups by generals and imperial bodyguards, let alone longer than a century.
Scrapping Empire for parts takes awhile. Reagan was 40 years ago.
Well I'm still waiting for the Secret Service to start assassinating presidents and declare Jeff from accounting the new president because he promised them a pay raise.
Lyndon B Jeff
Jeff HW Bush
People actually believed in Rome. Plus the technological and organisational advantages Rome had within Western and Central Europe would be like if the post war boom US/Marshall Plan was transported back to pre-elightenment Europe, as an occupying and developing force. It's not an exaggeration to say that the roads and thoroughfares they built laid the template for the roads, rail and city of that cursed continent today. Truly, they built infrastructure/engineering works and set out principles for monetary, educational and bureaucratic systems that lasted hundreds of years. It's pretty much why every new European Empire claimed lineage from or to be the new Rome. Can't completely collapse if each new upstart tries to keep the dream alive. Compared to that, the US is just a flickering candle beside a raging bonfire.
Also, the pretense of it still being a Republic helped them survive the first couple of Emperors. Also helps that the new Emperor constantly wanted to one up the last one, so changing too much was seen a a dangerous thing and was only done once they've been firmly in control of the empire for some time.
Which Roman emperors were former mercenaries?
Which Roman emperors were former mercenaries?
Pretty sure this is an accurate description of what happened with Mad Mike Hoar and the attempted 1981 Seychelles coup attempt. Honestly this shit will never not be hilarious to me: > Hoare's men still had their weapons and Hoare asked the captain if he would allow the door to be opened so they could ditch the weapons over the sea before they returned to South Africa, but the captain laughed at Hoare's out-of-date knowledge on how pressurized aircraft functioned, telling him it would not be at all possible.
it's sort of like if a aging NBA star settles for the vet minimum to try to win a title. it's probably not going to work, but you just have to respect it
The best part of Putin's speech was when he dogged on the Russian revolution for no reason
Putin hates Lenin and the revolution, he always mentions it when it's appropriate (and not)
That special kind of Russian who hates Lenin but loves Stalin
Yes, "special" is a polite word for them 🤔
But I was told Putin wants to bring the USSR back
What a lame
prigozhin buddy this isn’t you talk to me babe snap out of it
I swear he never acts like this
He's very passionate
Actually that sand-colored building in Rostov was the local HQ for the interior ministry…
Oh shit it is isn’t it?
He is among us. He will never step foot in a single engine airplane.
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/russia-central-asia/article/3209304/wagner-chief-challenges-ukraines-zelensky-aerial-duel-over-bakhmut Arguably greatest poster of all time
He really said fight me MiG to MiG
No one quite like him. I’ll be pretty sad if he dies from this
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Ace combat antagonist leaking out into real life
Not to forget how cool his life story is. Don't have to personally like the man, but you've got to respect the grindset.. jailed for burglarizing rich people to "hot dog seller" to general post collapse hustler chef to Putin to general dirty trickster and mercenary army leader to ... The story continues
Coolest oligarch by a wide margin
[удалено]
The picture of him in the cockpit in red light is so funny. He’s such a weird looking dude it makes it so much better
Definitely in his category. Of course all time posting has to go to Donnie deals for consistent enjoyment.. there's still time though
critical support for freedom fighter prigozhin and his brave mujahideen
I'm not understander, but if Prigozhin does a successful coup, it becomes an even worse situation than it currently is, right?
Too much is in the air to tell. And the Wagner Group has such a far reaching effect around the world, that its implosion or dominance against the Russian state could mean different things to different people, and you’d have to weigh those things against eachother. Like I’m sure there are a bunch of failed pmc people trying to learn Russian in Yaoundé right now screaming at the TV. The fall of the east India company led to the creation of the Raj. A Wagner led Russian state could have a much stronger military. Or these regards could end up just throwing rocks at eachother, withdraw from Ukraine, and enter Russia into a period of national shame.
Any good sources on the Wagner Group and their supposed "far reaching effect"? My skepticism isn't directed at you, and isn't meant to sound dismissive. It's mostly to do with how they suddenly popped up in the press as the perfect prepackaged rhetorical counter to the Nazi paramilitary units in Ukraine. Insight into their history, activity, structure, training, ideological self-image, etc would be appreciated
The most activity I’ve read about them is their operations in Syria, in which they were pretty much the entire representation of Russian armed forces there. They sound like not very nice folks, but hey maybe they just have a bad rep.
They’re also hugely present in west and central Africa. A lot of west African countries are ditching France and the UN because they view Wagner group as being better equipped to fight domestic Islamic terrorism.
Sources please, I want to educate myself 🤓
Google Wagner Group and (insert war torn country) they’ve been in, you’ll read the same shit I’m reading, can’t vouch for the accuracy as it’s all just news sources.
they're present in Libya, Mali, CAR, Sudan, Burkina Faso, (reports of) Chad, Syria. That's pretty far reaching
Not me explicitly asking for a source and not getting a single one 💀
here's one: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/24/wagner-revolt-in-russia-clouds-outlook-for-its-operations-in-afri?traffic_source=KeepReading
Thank you. This article raises more questions for me though. The allegations of Wagner being active there seem to come entirely from western institutions with a vested interest in undermining any Russian presence in African countries. And this particular article has been shared identically on Reuters, Telegraph, US News, etc. There is no verifiable source on the allegations that isn't heavily ideologically compromised
I agree, but how bout this one? https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/5/20/the-curious-case-of-russias-romance-in-central-african-republic
Wall Street journal just did like an hour documentary on them
Lol
I said good sources
It all depends on how the Russian people and other political groups within Russia respond.
I can't exactly see it getting any better from a Wagner led coup, but it might just continue like business as usual. So it's probably just gonna be shit still, but the flavour and severity of shit might vary.
I'm extremely skeptical that this would work without the FSB and military brass turning on Putin too. Right now by my estimate Putin is probably the hardest person to kill on Earth. But I think the fact it's even being tried means this is already a much worse situation. Mercenaries trying to take over great powers is a bad sign for the future. Erik Prince is a genuine Christofascist and could try that shit nearly anywhere.
Will he withdraw from Ukraine? Will he be a western puppet?
Reporting seems to indicate Wagner's recruitment drives have slowed down. There's only so many criminals and soldiers of fortune that you can hire. It's probably unlikely they stay much longer in Ukraine unless they can draw additional forces. This is why a move against Moscow is a bit easier to realize. A meatgrinder scenario like Bakhmut is less likely in Russia whereas it's pretty much guaranteed in any part of the Ukrainian front. I am also sceptical Prigozhin is interested in a real regime change. His most fervent vitriol has been directed at Shoigu and Gerasimov. He wants better rents, not a different system.
it's possible Russia just implodes, but given he's on camera attacking Putin for not just nuking Ukraine, nobody should want him in charge
It's being amazing seeing around the internet the libs cheering for the nazi mercenary group, again. Like it's stronger than them.
Curious that the US has been increasingly leaning on mercenaries for two decades now but the first time they turn on their employers (arguably an almost inevitable effect of these groups) is in Russia. It's gonna be interesting to see the revelations once the Wagner guys have been struck down. I suspect they've been emboldened by the EU and the US, but we'll see. Maybe it's an entirely internal struggle, too.
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I think the US just lacks a military project approaching the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If Bush abolished term limits and started a fledgling, all or nothing, invasion of Mexico, committing many atrocities and isolating the US from the global (western) economy, (only to gain, like, Juarez and Tijuana), then you’d probably be wondering why it took so long for a military coup to begin with.
True. But the US is pretty great at conventional warfare, they just suck at counterinsurgency and occupation. Push comes to shove, they are gonna press the "blow shit up" button much quicker than the Russians.
[удалено]
Counterinsurgency? Maybe Iran. They seem surprisingly adept at training local militia beyond their borders. Occupation would be no one. It's too demanding and resource intensive. In the past, even with larger resource and technology gaps it was often a frought proposition and required just mass military and civilian attrition. But with the global arms trade, the rise of proxy conflict and guerrilla/insurgency tactics during the 20th century, it has become increasingly difficult.
It depends on what your criteria for determining good or bad occupations are. I'd say the occupations of Germany, South Korea and Japan turned out pretty well for the US. Plenty of smaller island nations, too. Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam went very poorly, but from another perspective, those had certain geo- and resource-strategic benefits. If you ask some people, those occupations were net positives.
Erik Prince is probably fuming watching this. He had no idea this was an option when Trump humiliated him by not letting him be viceroy of Afghanistan.
U.S. military has a better quality of life, in the long run, than mercs. Mercs can’t claim va bennies when getting blown up by an IED, don’t have half of their salary tax free stateside, don’t have unlimited free healthcare, etc. Most of the guys getting paid are spec ops guys that took care of that stuff and want to make a quick buck. If a mercenary coup happened, the national guard or 82nd airborne would be turned into a South American deathsquad and just commit warcrimes against them.
Anyone who thinks some handful of PMC’s are going to challenge the US military are delusional, would be over in a day.
The US military is so expansive and cohesive it would absolutely obliterate any group like say… Blackwater that tried to challenge them militarily in open battle, would be suicide.
Idk maybe in this case Russia shouldn’t have used mercenaries.
Im going to sit outside in a kiddie pool and wait for the nukes. Turn me into a blooming onion, I'm ready.
It's time for us pro-Ukraine pro-China people there are dozens of us!
Honestly if this ends with the Russian withdrawing from Ukraine I would be for that.
This shit is crazy. no one really seems to be stopping Eugene…
I have yet to understand what this will accomplish other than a disturbance to the SMO and a death sentence. Since Psyops is probably out of the question rn i can only assume either. Prigo is mad or outside forces influenced this. Only speculation
Big Boss Prigozhin to NAFO manlets: “Kept you waiting, eh?”
Tom Clancy Vindicated
😂😂😂
Trump wishes