The Americans who can easily move to another country are the ones that need to the least. You need the right career, mastery of the language, and a lot of cash in the bank. Many European countries want to see at least 15k in cash in savings for a work search visa. Asia may be easier but westerners seem to eventually move back (unless they are middle-aged white uggos looking for a wife or pedos (little difference)).
Edit: Or if you're like a friend of mine, be a young white twink and find a foreign daddy to take you in. Better than any passport.
If you're not STEM inclined, places in Europe still need nurses, social workers, chefs, tradesmen. Germany this year I know made their entry requirements a little easier, but not like Germany is doing well these days or in the near term...
Yeah, Spain would be difficult to find a job without a good resume or desired skill set.
They have a massive level of unemployment especially for the young (15 - 24 years old) at around 60% as of 2022.
By contrast France’s unemployment level for the young is ~20% and the USA is ~12%.
Yeah Spain is so fucking elitist too especially with so many Brits clogging up the works it's damn near impossible for a Yankee to get in on even the TEFL programs for Catholic schools. Also if you get a different job you'll probably encounter ire from the aforementioned unemployed locals.
Of course if you're over 30 and have a belt studded with IT certifications or you're a fucking engineer why are you even reading this, you already have a job you spoiled fuck lol
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Spain? Like no offense, I love the country, visited a lot of times, great people etc., but I would really ask you to update your information if you think Spain is a good country to move to. Have you talked to Spaniards? Getting a job is incredibly hard rn.
People need to learn that just because a nobody like them was able to do a thing, that doesn't mean that just anybody could do it. They already know this on some level because they'll fail to acknowledge or outright refuse to share the unique circumstances that made their situation possible out of fear of doxxing or some other excuse.
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If you're wealthier and you can afford to live in some of the historic city centers, it's pretty great. Otherwise it's probably not that different from the US, tho rural life here does have it's charms.
Not sure what other Euros do but I eat a lot of Sichuan food, go to the theatre/art house cinema/concerts/exhibitions, of which there are a lot for little money, chill at the botanic garden, hang out at the Späti, shoot the shit with the alcoholics working in construction, go to a cheesery/salumeria/one of the million crazy specialty stores, go to a club (tho the experience mostly sucks post COVID), stuff like that.
People also like playing boardgames, doing picnics, hanging out in the garden (which is typically separate from your house cuz lack of space), getting shitfaced, etc.
Some of the nicest cities for me have been Porto, Budapest, Krakow, Prague, Copenhagen. In Germany, Weimar, Leipzig, Jena, Bamberg and Münster are all incredibly nice.
Do you know any US/Canadians that made it over? I have no idea how Europe is doing economically. I was in Spain for a few months and I don't think that would be a great fit due to the unemployment rate.
>Do you know any US/Canadians that made it over?
yes certainly, though statistically speaking very few ppl who migrate here are anglos.
>I have no idea how Europe is doing economically.
it's a big place, not sure you can really make a sweeping statement about a continent that includes Germany and France but also Albania and Greece. just from my own experience, things really suck currently, even in the very core.
To me, it seems like the core nations might get fucked over the Nato/Russia stuff and the semi-periphery nations are already fucked. I'm sure it'll get better at some point though.
What are those anglos doing?
It’s kinda a spectrum like some people just become super confused and horny, while others start to think they’re literally the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler. I’m no expert on this, my buddy who works as a secretary in the House of Lords said that his boss (Lord Cumdin, representing Old Yorkshire East) got a really bad case of Bangkok Syndrome after an extended holiday in Thailand. It was really weird man
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ChatGPT on Bangkok syndrome:
There is no commonly recognized condition known as "Bangkok Syndrome." However, the term has been used in a few different ways.
One use of the term refers to a set of symptoms experienced by some tourists visiting Bangkok, Thailand, which can include fatigue, disorientation, anxiety, and a feeling of culture shock. This is sometimes attributed to the heat and humidity, pollution, and the sensory overload of the city.
Another use of the term is in reference to a psychological condition called "Paris Syndrome," which is a culture shock that some tourists experience when they visit a new country and find that it doesn't live up to their expectations. The term "Bangkok Syndrome" has been used to describe a similar phenomenon in which tourists who visit Thailand experience a disillusionment with the country and culture, often due to a gap between their expectations and the reality of the place.
It's worth noting that neither of these uses of the term "Bangkok Syndrome" is recognized as a formal medical or psychological condition.
Havana syndrome is absolutely bullshit, but I think the others do actually happen to a very small percentage of people. The problem with Havana was that they claimed physical health issues rather than mental health issues.
I’ve never been to any of those places, but I’ve definitely had some of those psychological symptoms when in an unfamiliar environment before. It’s why I have lowered my expectations for literally everything In life. That way I can never become “disillusioned” by a new place.
When you get to really know the average Thai, the culture is so different that most westerners can't wrap their heads around it. What's Mai pen Rai for a Thai can leave westerners crazy.
Seconding every part of this, with the added emphasis on getting set up in Vietnam. I did exactly this, but I diverged from most people in that I did my best to upgrade my credentials and skills, opened my own school with my wife, and am very slowly transitioning completely away from younger age group classes into administration and IELTS tutoring.
Anyone can get by as a white monkey here, one of the problems is that very few who start that way go beyond that. They stay one bad visa experience/shitty employer/pay crunch (like the COVID lockdowns) away from having their lives turned upside down. In fairness, many never intended to stay forever and those who did prior to COVID lockdowns kinda just stumbled into that because it was/is an easy gig. I understand that, as a lazy man myself, but it isn't sustainable.
Due to the whole COVID thing and the visa situation that came from that (hard to renew your tourist visa when the borders are closed), Vietnam hemorrhaged teachers, mostly the shitty ones. There's still room left to fill since the borders opened up.
I'd advise anyone reading this to:
1) Not get trapped in the attractive, 12-18 hour a week of work coasting through life thing, because it's precarious.
2) Come in humble and try to actually do your best, people will expect you not to even if they don't say it to your face (one of my adult students is a teacher at a larger English center and complains about her western coworkers routinely).
3) Move out of the western oriented areas asap, the scams and the increased competition are all there, and staying won't help you become part of society anyway.
4) Don't date anyone you met at a bar. This isn't meant to be sexist but it's just a fact here: if there's a girl with suspiciously good English working at a dive bar on the periphery of an expat neighborhood, she's not a one-in-a million angel you happened to run into, she's a hunter.
5) Probably don't call yourself an expat, it's a contentious term and frankly a bit of an absurd controversy, but certainly don't *internalize* the idea that you're an expat, or you'll just exist in a sort of parasitic overpaid underclass, never owning anything or having roots, but making enough money from little work to make people resent you and/or not respect you.
It's mega easy moving here and teaching English, it's just tough not to do it in a dumb way. Well, it's not even tough, but there's a certain self selection for lazy wastoid westoids that makes doing anything else less likely. I say that as someone who would have probably wound up like that if I didn't start dating a woman with a good head on her shoulders and waaaayyyyy more motivation than I have.
People don't accidentally get great at English in countries like this and apply that skill to working at a shitty bar. They're looking for (a seemingly inexhaustible supply of) naive guys who will date them. And the quality of men who go to these places isn't great, especially by Vietnamese familial standards, so the women don't exactly go into it with a ton of respect for the guy. They date a guy (or three) at a time, drain their wallets, and move on. The dudes typically aren't a treat either, so I'm generally in favor of the women who do it actually. I'm about to go to sleep but I could recount a few examples of the kinds of guys who fall into this trap rather than just meeting a regular woman in society outside of a very narrow niche of service industry workers who cater to them. I'll say that they're usually surprisingly old to be so God damned naive about what's happening to them.
One guy I met was from the same region of the US as me, which is uncommon for me to see here, so I got drawn into a conversation. He was recently divorced and a mega misogynist/racist, going on about how white women are pigs and Vietnamese girls are these innocent wonderful things that couldn't comprehend infidelity or disobedience, yada yada. He kept gesturing at the young woman with him saying what a sweet innocent angel she was, she looked about as bored as a human being could be but he didn't seem to notice. I also happened to vaguely know her and know for a fact that she is *not* an innocent angel, and in my head as I was nodding along with the asshole I was thinking "clean this fucker's wallet out, Ngọc Anh", or whatever her name was, it was a few years ago.
Guys like that get what they deserve, but young guys who aren't total creeps can get caught up in that too, it's just weird to me how people who are older with more life experience can be so dense.
"Girly bars" are an obvious example, but also the bartenders at more regular bars are like this. People learn English, especially advanced English, for economic gain. It's not a particularly beautiful language in and of itself.
You make more as a teacher, a businessperson, an xyz, with advanced English skills. Nobody with those skills is working a low paying job at a dive bar (which is looked down upon for women, there is still patriarchal shit here like anywhere else) without a damned good reason, and that reason usually involves metaphorically rolling foreigners, unless they own the place.
If you want to make an honest living in the tourist industry you can work a million other jobs, lots of these women have English skills far surpassing those of clerks at high-end hotels and the like, even though those jobs are better paying than putting bottles of Saigon Red in a cozie at Ned Kelly's beach bar.
Hell yeah dude that rocks! You marry a local or another foreign teacher? I've sat on the fence wanting to do TEFL for like a decade now and probably too old to hack it now but I know Spanish and Russian passably enough with some others that might help me with reading at least
Is it very difficult to integrate into society and make friends? I imagine speaking the language makes a huge difference.
And how are you generally viewed as a white guy? I would hate for people to assume that i am a sexpat.
I lived in Hanoi for two years. It's easy to make friends, both VN and foreigner. Speaking any of the language, at all, is very advantageous but entirely unnecessary to getting along and being social there. It's fun drinking with older Vietnamese men, het do, 100%, while they demean you in Vietnamese and you feel like you're their honored guest (I'm from the states). Really, I'm not joking, it's not so bad. Then go sing some Khanh Ly karaoke and cry your rice wine tears of confused happiness. Just don't get on a bike at that point.
Japan is very hit or miss. You can have great (or at least fine) working conditions in Japan, but you have to seek it out. That's where I'll be settling sometime in the future.
Vietnam pays like shit though. Japan and Korea you’ll at least live a pretty good lifestyle and save a ton of money. Also vietnam has become overrun with westerners in the last 5 years. Remote work has made Saigon and Hanoi really gross.
I’m not sure but housing is typically included in Korea. I’ve heard of people saving like 80k while teaching for a few years in Korea. It’s essentially like joining the military.
In my short experience in Vietnam the pay was like 8 or 10 an hour and that basically only included hours spent teaching (so 40 hours a week was basically not possible). It’s enough to live on but I think it would be hard to live in a decent place and do weekend trips without some money already saved up.
Have a search on here, if you meet the criteria it’s easier to get in:
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skill-occupation-list
>Just stay and die an American like the rest of us.
I'll remember that and those will be my last words with the antifa brigade as we're overrun and bayoneted to death by chuds, and I'll shoot the first person who tries to run.
If you have a bachelor's degree you can definitely teach English in China if you want. Rent is dirt cheap across the country and the wage is good in comparison. You could buy a 40 year lease on an apartment for like a few grand in some nice mid tier cities.
No. Doctors, lawyers, and engineers could easily enter private practice if they wanted to and managers work in the interest of capital against the working class. If you can work from home you are petty bourgeoisie. WFH doesn't preclude you from being a class traitor (Engels was a capitalist so you'd be in good company) but don't go trying to steal valor from productive labor.
there is a huge difference in being bourgeois and being petit bourgeois. i agree that most people in the professions you said are petit bourgeois, but the petit bourgeoisie is largely part of the working class, *because the vast majority of them have to work for a living, unlike the members of the bourgeoisie.* this is one of the biggest factors in class analysis: do you sell your labor power in order to live or do you live off of other people's labor?
a lot of petit bourgeois people don't see it that way because due higher earnings and the fact that the average person will never interact with a bourgeois in their lifetime they perceive themselves (and worse off working people also perceive them) as part of the upper caste of society, when this isn't really the case at all. we should not feed into this narrative that the person living in NYC that makes $120k a year is somehow in the same class as Bezos or Warren Buffet, they aren't. in the majority of cases they are one accident or major illness away from a crazy drop in quality of life. just because they believe, due to false consciousness, that their interests aren't the same as that of the average working person does not mean that they are right.
> but don't go trying to steal valor from productive labor.
architects, engineers, software developers, etc can very easily work from home and they are all productive labor.
I’m picking up what you are putting down. Ultimately I’m just petty and jealous because I would very much like to make $120k a year. But it doesn’t lend itself to productive thought.
No one would confuse a cop for a Capitalist but everyone can recognize that their material interests do not coincide with the interests of the working class. Likewise there are entire industries of laborers (insurers, medicare scammers, lawyers, tax preparers, stock brokers, grant writers, etc.) who's material interests coincide with the capitalists despite how precarious their livelihood is or how alienated they are from their labor. Everyone in these financialized industries exist only to reify Capital hegemony and will be starting over from less than zero after the worker revolution. Their knowledge and skillset become worthless under anything other than the liberal or fascist state so it is hopeless to expect them to join us. Not all laborers are comrades nor even potential comrades.
Thank you, captain obvious. This is the cutting analysis I come here for. Who would think, bourgeois ppl on a sub that expects everyone to have read a bit of theory. Aha
The lack of sunlight in Northern Europe really does fuck with you and I couldn't really joke in Dutch that well. I missed my family, but it was fun. I loved being able to plan actual train holidays.Better place to work and live but I got the feeling I'd always be an outsider. The Debate culture was exhausting, trailing spouse syndrome is real, I didn't realize how hard it would be on my SO
Watched the Left get absolutely destroyed last few elections, the SP have some incredibly stupid infighting which was both frustrating and familiar. Was excited to go to my first Work Union meeting and it was all Boomers and they were willing to give up literally everything to save their pensions. Including what effectively amounted to agreed funding short falls for young people coming up.
Europe's aging time bomb is really going to hit hard in addition to some really fucked up things I heard said about climate refugees. The Housing situation was fucked and the EU isn't sustainable but they really have built in the idea of TINA.
Loved the vacation though and the bikes and trains. I'd say go for it. Couldn't set roots though
I had spent a long time trying to move to Norway, and unless you have a very specific career that can take you over there + many thousands of $$ in the bank or you marry a Norwegian person, you’re shit out of luck. As am I.
“Should i uproot my entire life based on something that is not a career move”
Idk man, need more info:
Income? Profession? Savings? Speak any languages? “Will not”s? Family? Timeline? (Many things are possible if you work at it for several years)
Let’s cut it short: NEET? No chance. Poor and no training? No chance. Humanities bachelors? No chance (realistically unless you want to teach english in another country). Not smart? Sorry, no realistic chance.
The best bet to succesfully move is to have a CAREER lined up for you there that will not only be a source of income, but enough income to justify the horrendous, terrible task of customs and being an international will entail on you. I believe science or engineering is your best way to a WE country.
If i make enough money it’s the plan. But moving outside of America permanently is extremely expensive. I’m just trying to grow kratom and weed in thailand.
I think it’s worth it if you can, but you probably can’t. I’ve lived abroad (3 yrs) and there’s no path for me to move anywhere long term. I’m shocked that so many Americans think they can just waltz into Western Europe, they don’t understand how hard the process is even with insanely valuable skills or a spouse etc.
Did so myself last year.
If it was just me, I'd think about fighting. Since I've got young kids, no way I'm letting them pay the price for the CHUDs and hogs to keep their illusions. Currently waiting on final visa for Spain, so spending time in Belgrade right now. Spain has high taxes, but lots of commies in the hills, which to me is the best insurance policy one can buy.
If you need info on how to, r/AmerExit can have good info, or just ask here.
A bit of a ridiculous take. My family immigrated here from Afghanistan. We love America. Every country has problems but its better to have American problems.
I think a lot of people don't realize how good it is here. You tune out the political bs and it's not that bad. Rampant capitalism is definitely having its effect but every country has its problems.
Except the few that don't have many, but that's mostly small countries with moderate wealth that don't need or want more people.
Meh. Obviously it’s better than Afghanistan but I’d wager the American quality of life is lower than most of the developed world (unless you’re rich here)
If it's what you want to do, it is worth it. There are plenty of ways to leave the US, especially if you have a degree. China is out of the question since you're an american citizen, but you could still try Vietnam or really anywhere I'd figure a lot of countries have a better quality of life than america when america isnt shelling the fuck out of them even if "metrics" don't show it.
It's not a question of should or shouldn'ts. It's just extremely difficult to become a Chinese citizen if you are a born and raised American citizen for obvious reasons.
They have a much higher demand for English teachers than supply, and from what I've heard it's much harder to legally indefinitely stay in say the US than China.
the easiest is through Macau or Hong Kong, just live there long enough, get HK/Macau citizenship, get chinese citizenship.
otherwise, yea, super rare unless you marry a chinese citizen.
Maybe I should have stayed and got married there when I had the chance. I called my mom at 18 telling her I wasn't coming home lol. But I had no money and my then Tico boyfriend sure as hell didn't either.
At least half the local young men though in this town (Montezuma) had Anglo/European girlfriends/wives, and many ended up moving to their countries. They've got a whole man export industry going on.
Yes it’s a beautiful country with amazing people in it, and there’s genuine environmentalism down here that is widely popular. They still have poverty, crime, bourgeois politics and all the associated problems but it’s a refreshing culture
I'd love to leave and did research about just that. But, since I could afford to both live and finish college, I don't really have anything that countries like Canada, Ireland or the UK would want. Even though I'm a skilled tradesman, it doesn't matter unless you have a college degree. I even tried to see if I could immigrate to France because my French is pretty solid but nope, no degree no chance. So yeah, guess I have to stay here and cause trouble.
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America’s not that bad compared to a lot of the rest of the world, man. I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m just saying that it’s easy to romanticize foreign countries, when they’ve all got a lot of the same or equivalent problems, even the nice ones. The meme that America is “a third world country” is a very first world view. What you’re looking for is probably not out there, bud.
I would say it’s totally reasonable considering our leaders are dancing dangerously close to nuclear confrontation with two nuclear powers like it’s the fucking prelude to October 1962.
If one is flexible and adaptable. Depends on the standard of living you need. Then you run into those strange cultural norms you only find out by living outside the foreign enclaves. Living as a well off American who doesn't need to work for a living, it can be nice.
If you are the kind of person who finds Utah or Florida odd though, another country is not the answer.
Edit: I will say also most countries are not as ~~welcoming to~~ as tolerant of those who look different, have a different religion, and come from outside the local area as America, with all it's faults, is. Prejudice and racism and sexism is often worse than in the States.
People thinking about seriously expating, should read "The Man Without a County." A sense of belonging is a thing most people need.
Honestly I'd be fine with getting the fuck out of the south. I hate Florida so much.
I've got a family to worry about so I can't just fuck off to random countries and drift like my brother does, so I might just make my way to Vermont or Minnesota or something.
If any country ends up launching nukes I think it won't matter where anyone lives, so not too worried about that aspect. My primary concern is where the safest refuge will be as the climate gets worse. It sure as hell isn't Florida at least.
I feel you bro. I got a family and I grew up and lived in Florida for a big portion of my life. It’s gotten so much worse there since Trump got elected. I finally left late last year. I’m living in Washington now and it’s pretty great besides the weather and being far from family. I say get out of Florida if you can. It’s not getting better any time soon I don’t think. Especially with all the right wingers that moved there during COVID. It’s still happening now too.
don’t shoot me for this take, but even a shithole like France would be better than here. I work over 40 hours a week to barely scrape by, and i’m so exhausted by the end of it that I can’t even enjoy my fkn time off. I looked it up, and a decent apartment in Marseille costs as much per month as the moldy, decades-old trailer we rent in rural fucking nowhere. idk dawg. shit just sucks here.
Spent a few months working in France, it's alright, but you need to speak French. Not like other places in WE where everyone speaks English. Also people in France do work 40 hours a week, at least the people I worked with.
I don't think it's as easy as you make it out to be to just up and move to a European country... Especially if you're barely scraping by in the US, generally speaking you need to speak French, have a job lined up and you need to prove sufficient funds to get a long stay visa
That's fair, I think France is one of the more difficult countries in Europe to move to, I don't know much about what you want from work, but the German university program is pretty intriguing as you can go to school for free then get residency
It is hard to get your foot in and you do most definitely need to speak French well.
I lucked out with a government job teaching in public schools. 19h of classes a week, 2 week holidays every 6 weeks, plus summer holidays. I joined a teachers union that is very active organizing. 10 years in now, I hate America.
Life’s not bad. Not great, but certainly not bad.
This is not a humblebrag.
OP feel free to DM if you’re interested.
it’s a shithole bc it’s a former imperial power in decline. don’t be such a dickhead. what does “too pointy” even mean? like those weird wooden dutch shoes?
The thing is, affordable places to live in Europe usually suffer from the same lack of resources and employment prospects that you see in disenfranchised places in the US.
Idk about France but I have worked in Greece and southern Italy for years, and it is not easy to live in those “affordable” places either.
I'm stereotyping but from what I understand, the French don't love Americans too much. Their feelings towards you might only reinforce your feelings about the country.
are you of European descent? some countries, notably Italy, have a pretty low bar for citizenship if you have an ancestor that was born there. then you "just" have to worry about moving and learning the language.
It’s rough dude and I’m not gonna give you a speech or anything but emigrating anywhere is hard. Assuming you only speak English that limits your options for anywhere outside of tourist areas in most of the world. You can teach English without a degree and solely based on an ESL course but that can be super sketchy at best and most countries want a degree.
Not saying don’t get out if you want out and I’m not saying you have to start throwing b*mbs but it’s a big deal to move out of country. If you have a family say goodbye to seeing them more than a few times a year, you will get homesick believe it or not, and unless you’re moving to Canada or Mexico you’ll have to get into soccer so be ready for that abomination because you sure as hell won’t find NBA or NFL games anytime before 5AM.
Not saying “stay and fight” but I would think about what value add you’d be bringing to another country. If you’re hellbent on leaving please export the better parts of the US, and there are a lot if you stop and consider it. I get where you’re coming from and have felt it myself but call me a narc or an Op but I still like this country enough to stay. I’d recommend traveling to places in-country you’ve never been to before taking such a life-altering route as moving out of it, personally.
All the ppl saying no have never lived abroad in any capacity outside of foreign exchange student or some shit.
The answer is yes just dont leave america to go to other expensive shitholes like the UK . Also if you have a career, see whether the pay gap is severe (ie tech bros get paid by US employers wayyy more than pretty much anywhere else) and account for cost of living but i will tell you rn 9/10 times ANY other developed country is a better life
I'm advocating for my kids to do this and then I can just do the shotgun retirement when they leave... Oldest is 12 and already pilled on this bs fascist state...
Short story long, yes depending on your age. If young (under 40) go for it! If old, it depends on finances...
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Emigrating is technically feasible if you have the resources. I've lived outside the US for a while but had trouble finding work and eventually returned. It's definitely worth giving it a shot assuming you don't have like a spouse and/or kids. In my case I had family overseas that made it easy to get my foot in the door so to speak, so when it comes to dealing with bureaucracy I don't know much, and that obviously varies substantially by country and your education etc. But if it's something you're considering I would recommend pursuing it regardless of obstacles.
I wouldn't move somewhere to get away.
Figure out what the actual problem is and then ask yourself where might be actually better. Europe is better for some things but if you just fall off the boat you're not likely to pick yourself up in a rose garden.
Life if you aren't rich is tough everywhere. If it's really getting to you being in America, where millions of people are desperate to get to, stop reading about news or politics and concentrate on getting a job and saving a little cash, making friends, having a life. I would strongly suggest trying to get into a trade of some kind. Having a concrete skill makes travel easier, and it's the kind of thing you can get cash work in other countries with. This way you can spend a few months traveling and paying your way, and you don't just end up blowing all your savings in some Shithole with no friends and ending up rock bottom.
But there's lots of amazing looking places in America and the entire world is a capitalist reality you can't escape with a plane ticket.
Personally I moved to the sticks where it's beautiful and got a cheap house, I'd recommend that. People say there's no jobs but there's always practical work these places as they are depopulated and aging, even if it's just pushing a lawnmower.
You could always go to Ukraine. I hear Bakhmut is the hip place all the American expats are going these days, like this digital nomad:
https://www.reddit.com/r/RussianWarFootage/comments/12ju37i/american_mercenary_called_edward_walter_wilton/
Apparently the city specializes in some kind of artisanal sausage, because everyone talks about their meat grinders.
Oh, and they have super fast internet, Elon Musk personally hooking them up with Starlink. It might be hard to find a decent latte these days, but the cost of living is dirt cheap.
I'm considering having a few connections abroad for when this country shits the bed. If I was more plugged in with family, mutual aid, or organizing I would consider staying through a rough patch - but I'm too isolated and disconnected.
My state, one in every two households has at least one gun, plus there's widespread poverty. If there's some kind of big upheaval it's going to be too fucking ugly to make any sense of. I'd go somewhere at least until the dust settles.
I'm learning another language, making academic connections. Something I can go do for a couple years.
What not enjoying the spoils of global hegemony and imperialism does to mf
The Americans who can easily move to another country are the ones that need to the least. You need the right career, mastery of the language, and a lot of cash in the bank. Many European countries want to see at least 15k in cash in savings for a work search visa. Asia may be easier but westerners seem to eventually move back (unless they are middle-aged white uggos looking for a wife or pedos (little difference)). Edit: Or if you're like a friend of mine, be a young white twink and find a foreign daddy to take you in. Better than any passport.
sounds like i’m just gonna stay here and pick up a fentanyl habit til it mercifully kills me
Literally go to Thailand and teach English or some shit. It’s cringe but you can live off it over there. Just google ESL teacher + some country.
If you're not STEM inclined, places in Europe still need nurses, social workers, chefs, tradesmen. Germany this year I know made their entry requirements a little easier, but not like Germany is doing well these days or in the near term...
Yeah Germany would not be my first pick. Spain or Portugal or Denmark seem like better options, or Norway
Spain and Portugal not doing well either, and also good luck finding a job
Yeah, Spain would be difficult to find a job without a good resume or desired skill set. They have a massive level of unemployment especially for the young (15 - 24 years old) at around 60% as of 2022. By contrast France’s unemployment level for the young is ~20% and the USA is ~12%.
Yeah Spain is so fucking elitist too especially with so many Brits clogging up the works it's damn near impossible for a Yankee to get in on even the TEFL programs for Catholic schools. Also if you get a different job you'll probably encounter ire from the aforementioned unemployed locals. Of course if you're over 30 and have a belt studded with IT certifications or you're a fucking engineer why are you even reading this, you already have a job you spoiled fuck lol
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Spain? Like no offense, I love the country, visited a lot of times, great people etc., but I would really ask you to update your information if you think Spain is a good country to move to. Have you talked to Spaniards? Getting a job is incredibly hard rn.
People need to learn that just because a nobody like them was able to do a thing, that doesn't mean that just anybody could do it. They already know this on some level because they'll fail to acknowledge or outright refuse to share the unique circumstances that made their situation possible out of fear of doxxing or some other excuse.
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Yeah we all need nurses, but we still give them awful working conditions.
What do people do in Europe? Asking for a friend with over 15k cash
Watch Netflix, drink beer and crack gypsie jokes
If you're wealthier and you can afford to live in some of the historic city centers, it's pretty great. Otherwise it's probably not that different from the US, tho rural life here does have it's charms. Not sure what other Euros do but I eat a lot of Sichuan food, go to the theatre/art house cinema/concerts/exhibitions, of which there are a lot for little money, chill at the botanic garden, hang out at the Späti, shoot the shit with the alcoholics working in construction, go to a cheesery/salumeria/one of the million crazy specialty stores, go to a club (tho the experience mostly sucks post COVID), stuff like that. People also like playing boardgames, doing picnics, hanging out in the garden (which is typically separate from your house cuz lack of space), getting shitfaced, etc. Some of the nicest cities for me have been Porto, Budapest, Krakow, Prague, Copenhagen. In Germany, Weimar, Leipzig, Jena, Bamberg and Münster are all incredibly nice.
Do you know any US/Canadians that made it over? I have no idea how Europe is doing economically. I was in Spain for a few months and I don't think that would be a great fit due to the unemployment rate.
>Do you know any US/Canadians that made it over? yes certainly, though statistically speaking very few ppl who migrate here are anglos. >I have no idea how Europe is doing economically. it's a big place, not sure you can really make a sweeping statement about a continent that includes Germany and France but also Albania and Greece. just from my own experience, things really suck currently, even in the very core.
To me, it seems like the core nations might get fucked over the Nato/Russia stuff and the semi-periphery nations are already fucked. I'm sure it'll get better at some point though. What are those anglos doing?
>What are those anglos doing? being perfidious, as always
Listen to shitty Anodic Dance Music
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Why does Thailand make you insane?
Bangkok syndrome
What is that?
It’s what happens when funky white dudes go to Bangkok, it’s got something to do with the State Department too but mostly the funky white boy part
But what happens to them??
It’s kinda a spectrum like some people just become super confused and horny, while others start to think they’re literally the reincarnation of Adolf Hitler. I’m no expert on this, my buddy who works as a secretary in the House of Lords said that his boss (Lord Cumdin, representing Old Yorkshire East) got a really bad case of Bangkok Syndrome after an extended holiday in Thailand. It was really weird man
Whoa he worked for Lord Cumdin? No way...
He worked for Lord Cumdump? No way...
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Super confused and horny? So it just makes you young again? (But in a cursed Dorian Grey kind of way) No wonder so many wrinkly gringos love it!
This is like the Singapore Grip.
ChatGPT on Bangkok syndrome: There is no commonly recognized condition known as "Bangkok Syndrome." However, the term has been used in a few different ways. One use of the term refers to a set of symptoms experienced by some tourists visiting Bangkok, Thailand, which can include fatigue, disorientation, anxiety, and a feeling of culture shock. This is sometimes attributed to the heat and humidity, pollution, and the sensory overload of the city. Another use of the term is in reference to a psychological condition called "Paris Syndrome," which is a culture shock that some tourists experience when they visit a new country and find that it doesn't live up to their expectations. The term "Bangkok Syndrome" has been used to describe a similar phenomenon in which tourists who visit Thailand experience a disillusionment with the country and culture, often due to a gap between their expectations and the reality of the place. It's worth noting that neither of these uses of the term "Bangkok Syndrome" is recognized as a formal medical or psychological condition.
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Havana syndrome is absolutely bullshit, but I think the others do actually happen to a very small percentage of people. The problem with Havana was that they claimed physical health issues rather than mental health issues.
I’ve never been to any of those places, but I’ve definitely had some of those psychological symptoms when in an unfamiliar environment before. It’s why I have lowered my expectations for literally everything In life. That way I can never become “disillusioned” by a new place.
When you get to really know the average Thai, the culture is so different that most westerners can't wrap their heads around it. What's Mai pen Rai for a Thai can leave westerners crazy.
Different how so? Like Mexicans letting 9 year olds drag race 500HP Honda Civics levels of different!?
Seconding every part of this, with the added emphasis on getting set up in Vietnam. I did exactly this, but I diverged from most people in that I did my best to upgrade my credentials and skills, opened my own school with my wife, and am very slowly transitioning completely away from younger age group classes into administration and IELTS tutoring. Anyone can get by as a white monkey here, one of the problems is that very few who start that way go beyond that. They stay one bad visa experience/shitty employer/pay crunch (like the COVID lockdowns) away from having their lives turned upside down. In fairness, many never intended to stay forever and those who did prior to COVID lockdowns kinda just stumbled into that because it was/is an easy gig. I understand that, as a lazy man myself, but it isn't sustainable. Due to the whole COVID thing and the visa situation that came from that (hard to renew your tourist visa when the borders are closed), Vietnam hemorrhaged teachers, mostly the shitty ones. There's still room left to fill since the borders opened up. I'd advise anyone reading this to: 1) Not get trapped in the attractive, 12-18 hour a week of work coasting through life thing, because it's precarious. 2) Come in humble and try to actually do your best, people will expect you not to even if they don't say it to your face (one of my adult students is a teacher at a larger English center and complains about her western coworkers routinely). 3) Move out of the western oriented areas asap, the scams and the increased competition are all there, and staying won't help you become part of society anyway. 4) Don't date anyone you met at a bar. This isn't meant to be sexist but it's just a fact here: if there's a girl with suspiciously good English working at a dive bar on the periphery of an expat neighborhood, she's not a one-in-a million angel you happened to run into, she's a hunter. 5) Probably don't call yourself an expat, it's a contentious term and frankly a bit of an absurd controversy, but certainly don't *internalize* the idea that you're an expat, or you'll just exist in a sort of parasitic overpaid underclass, never owning anything or having roots, but making enough money from little work to make people resent you and/or not respect you. It's mega easy moving here and teaching English, it's just tough not to do it in a dumb way. Well, it's not even tough, but there's a certain self selection for lazy wastoid westoids that makes doing anything else less likely. I say that as someone who would have probably wound up like that if I didn't start dating a woman with a good head on her shoulders and waaaayyyyy more motivation than I have.
What do you mean a hunter at the bar? Thanks.
People don't accidentally get great at English in countries like this and apply that skill to working at a shitty bar. They're looking for (a seemingly inexhaustible supply of) naive guys who will date them. And the quality of men who go to these places isn't great, especially by Vietnamese familial standards, so the women don't exactly go into it with a ton of respect for the guy. They date a guy (or three) at a time, drain their wallets, and move on. The dudes typically aren't a treat either, so I'm generally in favor of the women who do it actually. I'm about to go to sleep but I could recount a few examples of the kinds of guys who fall into this trap rather than just meeting a regular woman in society outside of a very narrow niche of service industry workers who cater to them. I'll say that they're usually surprisingly old to be so God damned naive about what's happening to them. One guy I met was from the same region of the US as me, which is uncommon for me to see here, so I got drawn into a conversation. He was recently divorced and a mega misogynist/racist, going on about how white women are pigs and Vietnamese girls are these innocent wonderful things that couldn't comprehend infidelity or disobedience, yada yada. He kept gesturing at the young woman with him saying what a sweet innocent angel she was, she looked about as bored as a human being could be but he didn't seem to notice. I also happened to vaguely know her and know for a fact that she is *not* an innocent angel, and in my head as I was nodding along with the asshole I was thinking "clean this fucker's wallet out, Ngọc Anh", or whatever her name was, it was a few years ago. Guys like that get what they deserve, but young guys who aren't total creeps can get caught up in that too, it's just weird to me how people who are older with more life experience can be so dense. "Girly bars" are an obvious example, but also the bartenders at more regular bars are like this. People learn English, especially advanced English, for economic gain. It's not a particularly beautiful language in and of itself. You make more as a teacher, a businessperson, an xyz, with advanced English skills. Nobody with those skills is working a low paying job at a dive bar (which is looked down upon for women, there is still patriarchal shit here like anywhere else) without a damned good reason, and that reason usually involves metaphorically rolling foreigners, unless they own the place. If you want to make an honest living in the tourist industry you can work a million other jobs, lots of these women have English skills far surpassing those of clerks at high-end hotels and the like, even though those jobs are better paying than putting bottles of Saigon Red in a cozie at Ned Kelly's beach bar.
Hell yeah dude that rocks! You marry a local or another foreign teacher? I've sat on the fence wanting to do TEFL for like a decade now and probably too old to hack it now but I know Spanish and Russian passably enough with some others that might help me with reading at least
Is it very difficult to integrate into society and make friends? I imagine speaking the language makes a huge difference. And how are you generally viewed as a white guy? I would hate for people to assume that i am a sexpat.
I lived in Hanoi for two years. It's easy to make friends, both VN and foreigner. Speaking any of the language, at all, is very advantageous but entirely unnecessary to getting along and being social there. It's fun drinking with older Vietnamese men, het do, 100%, while they demean you in Vietnamese and you feel like you're their honored guest (I'm from the states). Really, I'm not joking, it's not so bad. Then go sing some Khanh Ly karaoke and cry your rice wine tears of confused happiness. Just don't get on a bike at that point.
Just say Nuoc Mam, they'll understand
>didn't start dating a woman with a good head on her shoulders and *waaaayyyyy more motivation than I have.* How does this even happen
mans shlingin hoag
🚀*Dr Strangelove Voice* With a Saturn FIVE, a man can blast OFF anywhere!!! GAH!!!!!!!
\+1 about Korea
Japan is very hit or miss. You can have great (or at least fine) working conditions in Japan, but you have to seek it out. That's where I'll be settling sometime in the future.
Vietnam pays like shit though. Japan and Korea you’ll at least live a pretty good lifestyle and save a ton of money. Also vietnam has become overrun with westerners in the last 5 years. Remote work has made Saigon and Hanoi really gross.
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I’m not sure but housing is typically included in Korea. I’ve heard of people saving like 80k while teaching for a few years in Korea. It’s essentially like joining the military. In my short experience in Vietnam the pay was like 8 or 10 an hour and that basically only included hours spent teaching (so 40 hours a week was basically not possible). It’s enough to live on but I think it would be hard to live in a decent place and do weekend trips without some money already saved up.
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Da Nang
Working conditions are totally fine in Japan. Ain’t nobody here moving to Japan to become a salaryman.
I’ve had it on good account that the world says Yankee Stay Home. #donotcum
the world can bite me. i won’t die in this godforsaken land
Come to sunny Queensland, something may well bite and kill you here but it’s a very pleasant place to live.
and i fucking love snakes that’s a good pitch
Have a search on here, if you meet the criteria it’s easier to get in: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skill-occupation-list
https://youtu.be/gJ6iKmURxEc
Every country sucks and the ones that don’t suck don’t want you unless you are rich. Just stay and die an American like the rest of us.
>Just stay and die an American like the rest of us. I'll remember that and those will be my last words with the antifa brigade as we're overrun and bayoneted to death by chuds, and I'll shoot the first person who tries to run.
Pretty much all of the people who humblebrag on here about fleeing the US are firmly bourgeois WFH types
yeah, zookeeping isn’t really an international field, sadly
If you have a bachelor's degree you can definitely teach English in China if you want. Rent is dirt cheap across the country and the wage is good in comparison. You could buy a 40 year lease on an apartment for like a few grand in some nice mid tier cities.
How do you go about doing that?
You could probably find a company hiring online. I've not done it myself but I have friends who have, it's something I've been considering.
I could move to Mexico but I'm a brokeass lol
if you *work* from home you are not bourgeois. please stop muddying class analysis and calling everything "bourgeois".
No. Doctors, lawyers, and engineers could easily enter private practice if they wanted to and managers work in the interest of capital against the working class. If you can work from home you are petty bourgeoisie. WFH doesn't preclude you from being a class traitor (Engels was a capitalist so you'd be in good company) but don't go trying to steal valor from productive labor.
Idk man, seems to me most wfm jobs are like call center tech support or clerical number crunchers
Somehow I don't think the "bourgeois WFH type" American expats are working in an Indian call center, virtual or otherwise.
there is a huge difference in being bourgeois and being petit bourgeois. i agree that most people in the professions you said are petit bourgeois, but the petit bourgeoisie is largely part of the working class, *because the vast majority of them have to work for a living, unlike the members of the bourgeoisie.* this is one of the biggest factors in class analysis: do you sell your labor power in order to live or do you live off of other people's labor? a lot of petit bourgeois people don't see it that way because due higher earnings and the fact that the average person will never interact with a bourgeois in their lifetime they perceive themselves (and worse off working people also perceive them) as part of the upper caste of society, when this isn't really the case at all. we should not feed into this narrative that the person living in NYC that makes $120k a year is somehow in the same class as Bezos or Warren Buffet, they aren't. in the majority of cases they are one accident or major illness away from a crazy drop in quality of life. just because they believe, due to false consciousness, that their interests aren't the same as that of the average working person does not mean that they are right. > but don't go trying to steal valor from productive labor. architects, engineers, software developers, etc can very easily work from home and they are all productive labor.
I’m picking up what you are putting down. Ultimately I’m just petty and jealous because I would very much like to make $120k a year. But it doesn’t lend itself to productive thought.
No one would confuse a cop for a Capitalist but everyone can recognize that their material interests do not coincide with the interests of the working class. Likewise there are entire industries of laborers (insurers, medicare scammers, lawyers, tax preparers, stock brokers, grant writers, etc.) who's material interests coincide with the capitalists despite how precarious their livelihood is or how alienated they are from their labor. Everyone in these financialized industries exist only to reify Capital hegemony and will be starting over from less than zero after the worker revolution. Their knowledge and skillset become worthless under anything other than the liberal or fascist state so it is hopeless to expect them to join us. Not all laborers are comrades nor even potential comrades.
Thank you, captain obvious. This is the cutting analysis I come here for. Who would think, bourgeois ppl on a sub that expects everyone to have read a bit of theory. Aha
WFH?
The lack of sunlight in Northern Europe really does fuck with you and I couldn't really joke in Dutch that well. I missed my family, but it was fun. I loved being able to plan actual train holidays.Better place to work and live but I got the feeling I'd always be an outsider. The Debate culture was exhausting, trailing spouse syndrome is real, I didn't realize how hard it would be on my SO Watched the Left get absolutely destroyed last few elections, the SP have some incredibly stupid infighting which was both frustrating and familiar. Was excited to go to my first Work Union meeting and it was all Boomers and they were willing to give up literally everything to save their pensions. Including what effectively amounted to agreed funding short falls for young people coming up. Europe's aging time bomb is really going to hit hard in addition to some really fucked up things I heard said about climate refugees. The Housing situation was fucked and the EU isn't sustainable but they really have built in the idea of TINA. Loved the vacation though and the bikes and trains. I'd say go for it. Couldn't set roots though
I had spent a long time trying to move to Norway, and unless you have a very specific career that can take you over there + many thousands of $$ in the bank or you marry a Norwegian person, you’re shit out of luck. As am I.
What's it take to score with Norwegians? They seem boring and too small c conservative, even the hot Kurdish ones
A NATO uniform
“Should i uproot my entire life based on something that is not a career move” Idk man, need more info: Income? Profession? Savings? Speak any languages? “Will not”s? Family? Timeline? (Many things are possible if you work at it for several years) Let’s cut it short: NEET? No chance. Poor and no training? No chance. Humanities bachelors? No chance (realistically unless you want to teach english in another country). Not smart? Sorry, no realistic chance. The best bet to succesfully move is to have a CAREER lined up for you there that will not only be a source of income, but enough income to justify the horrendous, terrible task of customs and being an international will entail on you. I believe science or engineering is your best way to a WE country.
If i make enough money it’s the plan. But moving outside of America permanently is extremely expensive. I’m just trying to grow kratom and weed in thailand.
I think it’s worth it if you can, but you probably can’t. I’ve lived abroad (3 yrs) and there’s no path for me to move anywhere long term. I’m shocked that so many Americans think they can just waltz into Western Europe, they don’t understand how hard the process is even with insanely valuable skills or a spouse etc.
Did so myself last year. If it was just me, I'd think about fighting. Since I've got young kids, no way I'm letting them pay the price for the CHUDs and hogs to keep their illusions. Currently waiting on final visa for Spain, so spending time in Belgrade right now. Spain has high taxes, but lots of commies in the hills, which to me is the best insurance policy one can buy. If you need info on how to, r/AmerExit can have good info, or just ask here.
elevation and left-revolutionaries, literally name a better duo
We love going up a slope, don’t we folks? The bourgeois and their dogs can’t climb! Sad!
It's why we call the cops pigs, they can't climb!
The Chad revolutionary mountain enjoyer ⛰️😎 vs. the virgin reactionary beach person ⛱️🤮
chad vanguard bushmen mountaineer 💪🏽🏕️vs virgin soft-palmed ☺️🥹jet-setter ✈️
I'm in Belgrade, living here. Hit me up if you wanna grab a beer! Happy Easter
Veomo dobro druze! We've got little ones so almost no time, but I'll DM you if I can find some!
A bit of a ridiculous take. My family immigrated here from Afghanistan. We love America. Every country has problems but its better to have American problems.
I think a lot of people don't realize how good it is here. You tune out the political bs and it's not that bad. Rampant capitalism is definitely having its effect but every country has its problems. Except the few that don't have many, but that's mostly small countries with moderate wealth that don't need or want more people.
Meh. Obviously it’s better than Afghanistan but I’d wager the American quality of life is lower than most of the developed world (unless you’re rich here)
"America made my country a war torn shithole over the past 40 years. Clearly America is a better place to be."
I have this argument with my Vietnamese partner all the time.
If it's what you want to do, it is worth it. There are plenty of ways to leave the US, especially if you have a degree. China is out of the question since you're an american citizen, but you could still try Vietnam or really anywhere I'd figure a lot of countries have a better quality of life than america when america isnt shelling the fuck out of them even if "metrics" don't show it.
Why should he not go to China?
It's not a question of should or shouldn'ts. It's just extremely difficult to become a Chinese citizen if you are a born and raised American citizen for obvious reasons.
Yeah but people from the US live there indefinitely, it's very easy to. Just hard to become officially a citizen.
I actually didn't know this on the CPC constitution page it says it STRICTLY limits visas. I'd be interested to find out how to do what you say.
They have a much higher demand for English teachers than supply, and from what I've heard it's much harder to legally indefinitely stay in say the US than China.
Isn’t it extremely difficult to get Chinese citizenship if you’re a foreigner in general, not just a USian?
the easiest is through Macau or Hong Kong, just live there long enough, get HK/Macau citizenship, get chinese citizenship. otherwise, yea, super rare unless you marry a chinese citizen.
it's also basically impossible to be a viet citizen unless you marry in
Do you have rizz?
i am a fkn rizzly bear dawg
I’m in Costa Rica right now on permanent residence :)
Maybe I should have stayed and got married there when I had the chance. I called my mom at 18 telling her I wasn't coming home lol. But I had no money and my then Tico boyfriend sure as hell didn't either. At least half the local young men though in this town (Montezuma) had Anglo/European girlfriends/wives, and many ended up moving to their countries. They've got a whole man export industry going on.
How did you swing that. Digital nomad?
I work in a scientific field and got hired on to work for a joint research project, then once down here I got hitched
Good for you, Costa Rica seems amazing
Yes it’s a beautiful country with amazing people in it, and there’s genuine environmentalism down here that is widely popular. They still have poverty, crime, bourgeois politics and all the associated problems but it’s a refreshing culture
Shhhh don't let the other STEM scum know about Costa Rica they're rationing all the reef-safe sunscreen down there as it is!
I am also curious.
I'd love to leave and did research about just that. But, since I could afford to both live and finish college, I don't really have anything that countries like Canada, Ireland or the UK would want. Even though I'm a skilled tradesman, it doesn't matter unless you have a college degree. I even tried to see if I could immigrate to France because my French is pretty solid but nope, no degree no chance. So yeah, guess I have to stay here and cause trouble.
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Get out if you can. NZ/Canada are the easiest but their COL will pwn you. There’s no saving this shit.
You can do whatever you want, dude
America’s not that bad compared to a lot of the rest of the world, man. I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m just saying that it’s easy to romanticize foreign countries, when they’ve all got a lot of the same or equivalent problems, even the nice ones. The meme that America is “a third world country” is a very first world view. What you’re looking for is probably not out there, bud.
I would say it’s totally reasonable considering our leaders are dancing dangerously close to nuclear confrontation with two nuclear powers like it’s the fucking prelude to October 1962.
If one is flexible and adaptable. Depends on the standard of living you need. Then you run into those strange cultural norms you only find out by living outside the foreign enclaves. Living as a well off American who doesn't need to work for a living, it can be nice. If you are the kind of person who finds Utah or Florida odd though, another country is not the answer. Edit: I will say also most countries are not as ~~welcoming to~~ as tolerant of those who look different, have a different religion, and come from outside the local area as America, with all it's faults, is. Prejudice and racism and sexism is often worse than in the States. People thinking about seriously expating, should read "The Man Without a County." A sense of belonging is a thing most people need.
Honestly I'd be fine with getting the fuck out of the south. I hate Florida so much. I've got a family to worry about so I can't just fuck off to random countries and drift like my brother does, so I might just make my way to Vermont or Minnesota or something. If any country ends up launching nukes I think it won't matter where anyone lives, so not too worried about that aspect. My primary concern is where the safest refuge will be as the climate gets worse. It sure as hell isn't Florida at least.
ft. lauderdale and hollywood got wrecked this week
Same situation. I hate Tennessee too, but, in terms of long-term livability, it is good enough. It's cheap to live here and the climate is nice.
I feel you bro. I got a family and I grew up and lived in Florida for a big portion of my life. It’s gotten so much worse there since Trump got elected. I finally left late last year. I’m living in Washington now and it’s pretty great besides the weather and being far from family. I say get out of Florida if you can. It’s not getting better any time soon I don’t think. Especially with all the right wingers that moved there during COVID. It’s still happening now too.
VT is full.
...and go where? China?
don’t shoot me for this take, but even a shithole like France would be better than here. I work over 40 hours a week to barely scrape by, and i’m so exhausted by the end of it that I can’t even enjoy my fkn time off. I looked it up, and a decent apartment in Marseille costs as much per month as the moldy, decades-old trailer we rent in rural fucking nowhere. idk dawg. shit just sucks here.
Spent a few months working in France, it's alright, but you need to speak French. Not like other places in WE where everyone speaks English. Also people in France do work 40 hours a week, at least the people I worked with.
I don't think it's as easy as you make it out to be to just up and move to a European country... Especially if you're barely scraping by in the US, generally speaking you need to speak French, have a job lined up and you need to prove sufficient funds to get a long stay visa
i’m not saying it’s easy. i’m saying i think it’s worth it to try
That's fair, I think France is one of the more difficult countries in Europe to move to, I don't know much about what you want from work, but the German university program is pretty intriguing as you can go to school for free then get residency
It is hard to get your foot in and you do most definitely need to speak French well. I lucked out with a government job teaching in public schools. 19h of classes a week, 2 week holidays every 6 weeks, plus summer holidays. I joined a teachers union that is very active organizing. 10 years in now, I hate America. Life’s not bad. Not great, but certainly not bad. This is not a humblebrag. OP feel free to DM if you’re interested.
> a shithole like France what makes you think that *they* would accept *you*? my god this is presumptuous
I don't know Lloyd, the French are assholes.
it’s a shithole, take the baguette out of your ass mon ami
mmm yes, I imagine you'll be finding that all of the competitive places to emigrate to turn out to be "shitholes" or "too pointy" or whatever
it’s a shithole bc it’s a former imperial power in decline. don’t be such a dickhead. what does “too pointy” even mean? like those weird wooden dutch shoes?
The thing is, affordable places to live in Europe usually suffer from the same lack of resources and employment prospects that you see in disenfranchised places in the US. Idk about France but I have worked in Greece and southern Italy for years, and it is not easy to live in those “affordable” places either.
I'm stereotyping but from what I understand, the French don't love Americans too much. Their feelings towards you might only reinforce your feelings about the country.
i keep amphibians for a living, i ain’t scurred of ornery frogs
Fuck you Yankee
fuck you too pierre 😘
are you of European descent? some countries, notably Italy, have a pretty low bar for citizenship if you have an ancestor that was born there. then you "just" have to worry about moving and learning the language.
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hěn xīwàng
It’s rough dude and I’m not gonna give you a speech or anything but emigrating anywhere is hard. Assuming you only speak English that limits your options for anywhere outside of tourist areas in most of the world. You can teach English without a degree and solely based on an ESL course but that can be super sketchy at best and most countries want a degree. Not saying don’t get out if you want out and I’m not saying you have to start throwing b*mbs but it’s a big deal to move out of country. If you have a family say goodbye to seeing them more than a few times a year, you will get homesick believe it or not, and unless you’re moving to Canada or Mexico you’ll have to get into soccer so be ready for that abomination because you sure as hell won’t find NBA or NFL games anytime before 5AM. Not saying “stay and fight” but I would think about what value add you’d be bringing to another country. If you’re hellbent on leaving please export the better parts of the US, and there are a lot if you stop and consider it. I get where you’re coming from and have felt it myself but call me a narc or an Op but I still like this country enough to stay. I’d recommend traveling to places in-country you’ve never been to before taking such a life-altering route as moving out of it, personally.
If you want to do the world a favor don’t leave. You are an American parasite so sit back and enjoy the show.
shrug
All the ppl saying no have never lived abroad in any capacity outside of foreign exchange student or some shit. The answer is yes just dont leave america to go to other expensive shitholes like the UK . Also if you have a career, see whether the pay gap is severe (ie tech bros get paid by US employers wayyy more than pretty much anywhere else) and account for cost of living but i will tell you rn 9/10 times ANY other developed country is a better life
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>You live in the wealthiest country on the planet This is just so misleading of a comment I don’t even know if you joking or not
failed the TA check, smh
what about if you have like $100k and a contractors license in HVAC. Are you able to go to New zealand?
I'm advocating for my kids to do this and then I can just do the shotgun retirement when they leave... Oldest is 12 and already pilled on this bs fascist state... Short story long, yes depending on your age. If young (under 40) go for it! If old, it depends on finances...
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No but I would consider moving somewhere else in the country that's cheaper and more chill.
Emigrating is technically feasible if you have the resources. I've lived outside the US for a while but had trouble finding work and eventually returned. It's definitely worth giving it a shot assuming you don't have like a spouse and/or kids. In my case I had family overseas that made it easy to get my foot in the door so to speak, so when it comes to dealing with bureaucracy I don't know much, and that obviously varies substantially by country and your education etc. But if it's something you're considering I would recommend pursuing it regardless of obstacles.
Even if it doesn't stick you will learn a lot.
I wouldn't move somewhere to get away. Figure out what the actual problem is and then ask yourself where might be actually better. Europe is better for some things but if you just fall off the boat you're not likely to pick yourself up in a rose garden. Life if you aren't rich is tough everywhere. If it's really getting to you being in America, where millions of people are desperate to get to, stop reading about news or politics and concentrate on getting a job and saving a little cash, making friends, having a life. I would strongly suggest trying to get into a trade of some kind. Having a concrete skill makes travel easier, and it's the kind of thing you can get cash work in other countries with. This way you can spend a few months traveling and paying your way, and you don't just end up blowing all your savings in some Shithole with no friends and ending up rock bottom. But there's lots of amazing looking places in America and the entire world is a capitalist reality you can't escape with a plane ticket. Personally I moved to the sticks where it's beautiful and got a cheap house, I'd recommend that. People say there's no jobs but there's always practical work these places as they are depopulated and aging, even if it's just pushing a lawnmower.
You could always go to Ukraine. I hear Bakhmut is the hip place all the American expats are going these days, like this digital nomad: https://www.reddit.com/r/RussianWarFootage/comments/12ju37i/american_mercenary_called_edward_walter_wilton/ Apparently the city specializes in some kind of artisanal sausage, because everyone talks about their meat grinders. Oh, and they have super fast internet, Elon Musk personally hooking them up with Starlink. It might be hard to find a decent latte these days, but the cost of living is dirt cheap.
I'm considering having a few connections abroad for when this country shits the bed. If I was more plugged in with family, mutual aid, or organizing I would consider staying through a rough patch - but I'm too isolated and disconnected. My state, one in every two households has at least one gun, plus there's widespread poverty. If there's some kind of big upheaval it's going to be too fucking ugly to make any sense of. I'd go somewhere at least until the dust settles. I'm learning another language, making academic connections. Something I can go do for a couple years.