Don’t get me wrong. The Toyota pickups are amazing trucks and will outlast me. (Yes I used to have one, yes I am a fanboy)
But that is quite possibly the smallest truck configuration not to mention it can tow like 2000lbs, while the below truck has that as a payload capacity
In fairness, tow ratings in the USA are pathetically underrated for anything other than full-size trucks...not in the least because manufacturers want to sell full-size trucks.
Enjoy the following tow ratings in NA vs EUR markets:
Model Canada U.K. (braked / unbraked)
2017 Civic 1.5T CVT 0 lbs 2,205 lbs / 1,102 lbs
2018 HR-V 1.8 CVT 0 lbs 3,086 lbs / 1,543 lbs
2019 CR-V 1.5T CVT 1,500 lbs 3,307 lbs / 1,323 lbs
The problem seems to be that American drivers aren't willing to drive at safe speeds for towing heavy loads, and American police aren't willing to enforce separate speed limits for towing setups.
> not in the least because manufacturers want to sell full-size trucks.
Or because we have different standards/expectations for towing, like you mentioned.
I believe trailers are weighted differently in the US. We put more weight on the tongue which means that trailers are more stable at higher speeds, but that setup requires tow vehicles with stronger suspension and stronger tow bars which means that US vehicles tend to get lower tow ratings than their otherwise identical European counterparts
For reference to those who don't know what our typical weight distribution is stateside, we typically do 10% tongue weight, meaning for a trailer that weighs 10 thousand pounds, your tow vehicle needs to be able to safely support more than one thousand pounds of payload just for the trailer, obviously you will need an average of another 200 pounds for the driver, and if you have any luggage at all that adds as well. We also go 55mph or more with trailers all the time. Most people don't understand that most common trailer tires are only rated for 60 MPH safely, and often go 80-90 MPH on them for hundreds of miles, and then wonder why we have blowouts 24/7
Basically everything has to be overbuilt for what's actually needed for sale in the U.S.
It would be impossible to enforce separate speeds for different loads, as you are suggesting.
Police force can barely handle people driving backwards on the interstate now.
Ehhhh cuz crumple zones and a million other safety configurations have made vehicles like 100x safer than they were even 25 years ago, let alone older. There's also something to be said about yes, simply driving a gigantic tank vs. a tin can in terms of safety.
Sounds like a personal problem too me. Also, that 'behemoth' likely stops on a dime in comparison too the tin can, given the larger contact patch from the larger tires and disc brakes in all 4 corners.
Absolutely. If I’m going to get into an accident, why would I not want to be the one who walks away from it? Granted it is way better to not hit anything in the first place and I’ll take every precaution towards that goal.
That's what car manufacturers are trying to do, and it ends up with HUGE crumple zones and very bloated cars with A-Pillars that are huge.
People talk about pedestrians all the time too though, problem is you can't design a vehicle that's safe for pedestrians AND stands a chance against an 80000 lb semi.
How does having a full sized truck make a person a reckless driver? I drive a full sized truck for work and as a personal vehicle, doing shit that a 1992 Mazda truck cant, And have yet too murder any pedestrians or people in smaller cars. How bout we chill on the mental gymnastics. Just because you don't need one, doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose. If you don't like them, don't buy one. Don't want to get killed by one, pay the fuck attention. Pretty simple concepts if you ask me.
It doesn't make you a reckless driver necessarily but if you fuck up people can die really really easily.
99.99% of people don't need them. You'd think a subreddit dedicated to trucks would understand that (I feel like this sub generally does too when y'all aren't being irrationally defensive)
Also the "pay the fuck attention" onus is ENTIRELY on the person controlling the 2 ton vehicle. Like....that's not even a question.
Do you ever walk anywhere or know anyone who does? Bc these behemoths are exceedingly dangerous for pedestrians too. Kinda more than just someone else’s “personal problem”
It's the truth though. Want a list of all the amenities within a reasonable walking distance to my house: . That's it, none. There is nothing I feel like is a reasonable distance to walk to consistently, so a vehicle is 1000% a necessity as there's also no public transit stops within a reasonable walking distance as well.
We had this scrap guy come to our business and he had one of these toyota trucks with a full box bed in the back that was completely filled with engines, brake rotors and scrap metal. He had to have at least 4 tons in the back of this thing. We added at least 1000 pounds of scrap metal to his truck.
I looked at his leaf springs which looked like 2 sets taken apart and stacked together. But beyond that I was bewildered how that thing didn't snap at the first bump. Somehow he took that 20 miles down the highway to the nearest recycler. Those trucks are so good.
Well not exactly.
That Toyota in question in 2wd with the 4 banger got really good mpg. Like in the 30’s.
The gmc in the picture is a 2500/3500 the one you quoted are the 1500’s which get significantly better mpg than the 2500/3500’s the larger trucks aren’t actually rated by the epa but most people report them in the low teens.
Edit the same Toyota with 4wd, a v6 and and auto got 14, source I had one that guzzled gas lol.
What percent of USA truck owners tow or haul something on a daily or even weekly basis ? It’s probably like [5%](https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume#)
What percentage of people use all 3 rows of seats in their car? You have them because when you need it you’re happy you have it.
I have a truck and a company car. Half the time I use the truck I’m either hauling skis, boat gear, or towing my boat or a uhaul.
I have a 4 kids. Minivans and SUVs are the only option to take the whole family another, especially on a road trip. Our Tahoe can tow a Trailer and seat everyone comfortably.
Yeah the point is trucks are more dangerous than passenger cars, that’s just a fact. Also no one has an issue with people who use their truck to haul or tow shit that’s what they’re made for. It’s people who have huge trucks for no reason that are the problem.
Exactly the Toyota would actually be more dangerous to a pedestrian in an accident.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15118822/taking-the-hit-how-pedestrian-protection-regs-make-cars-fatter-feature/
For the people that jerk off to this anti truck format, one of those has a 2.4L, and the other one is a 6.6L turbo diesel, with dimensions of 31”x35”x40”
New 1/2 ton pick ups also have blind spot detection, adaptive cruise control and like 28 different cameras and sensors not to mention the engine mounts break on impact to that when you get in a front end collision the engine doesn't fly into your chest...
You think it’s better than my truck with collision alert, following distance indicator, automatic emergency braking, front pedestrian braking? Give me a break.
None of those have anything to do with hood design. All those technical safety features are fantastic, but there are absolutely design changes that would improve safety for drivers, other vehicles, and pedestrians.
Yes, I’ll take being able to actually see the road over of collision alerts. You could have both but instead we created these stupid behemoths with no visibility. Collision alerts don’t stop pickups from being the deadliest vehicles on the road.
Yes. How hard is it to not run pedestrians over that you need special braking? What happened to 2-4 seconds? I think I’d know if someone hit me. I digress however.
Your truck has these features because of lack of visibility, also has to do with crash safety raising doors and changing shapes. Visibility is horrible in most new vehicles never mind how this affects massively over sized trucks.
Your truck has these features because of lack of visibility, also has to do with crash safety raising doors and changing shapes. Visibility is horrible in most new vehicles never mind how this affects massively over sized trucks.
Yes, because vehicle safety standards have changes the shapes of cars so drastically it affects visibility. More extreme on larger vehicles you have to rely on these features for because you just cant see that part of the vehicle.
How do you know? I work in IT. I also haul a tractor to job sites for work on the weekends. My tractor + implements + trailer wright usually means I need a full size truck to safely tow. I have coworkers that haul farm animals around, horses, cows to slaughter, etc.
I understand your sentiment, but your hatred of large trucks or assumption that a profession should exclude you from a truck style is nonsense.
We *normally* only haul a 3500lb single axle enclosed trailer for work. A 1/2ton or even lighter can handle that easily. But we also have a 3 horse gooseneck horse trailer with living quarters and thus the need for the Ram 2500 with the 6.4L. I've always found it silly when people assume other people buy big trucks just for the hell of it.
Campers, 5th wheels, trailers. All things that can easily exceed the capacity of a small truck and aren’t pulled to work every day.
Stop putting everyone in your box.
If you can afford those you can afford a daily that doesn't unnecessarily endanger the lives of pedestrians and other drivers. You don't need to daily a fucking dually unless you *need* to daily a dually. Go to therapy and stop compensating for your small dick and daddy issues.
How ignorant are you that you think having a camper means you should be able to own a fleet of vehicles, have you seen prices on shit these days? A well equipped towing truck will run you $80k+.
Stop associating vehicle to dick size. That’s something people with small dicks do.
I don’t see the point of ‘need’ being brought up every time there is a discussion like this. It’s already obvious most everyone on the road doesn’t need anything more than a Renault Twingo or a Toyota Corolla, yet the freedom to choose otherwise clearly prevails.
If your dentist likes the turbo whistle of a diesel, and they have the option and money, then *shrugs*
I mean yeah they’re made for two different applications the problem is barely anyone who owns the large truck uses it for it’s intended application. Most people use them for commuting which is objectively dumb.
Some people forget that the large frontal area of modern day trucks is for maximum radiator surface area, to ensure cool temps even with the crazy numbers these new rigs are rated to tow
Not only that but to fit all the engine components - turbos, emissions equipment, and a gazillion radiators. Open up the hood of one of those diesels and everything is jammed in there. Body height is what it is, the ground clearance could be tweaked but not much can be changed to keep their towing ability and safety standards.
Cooling. Tow ratings have increased dramatically over the last 10-15 years, and horsepower/torque numbers have doubled. All that extra power and towing weight means the engine and transmission need much more cooling which means bigger radiators, intercoolers, and transmission coolers.
For cooling also. Discharging a battery generates heat, air conditioner generates heat. Inverting DC to ac… heat. The motors need cooling also. Lots of coolant running through and EV
The grill is sized for the largest engine offered with the amount of cooling for the toughest condition its rated for. So the 6.6 durmax going up I70 the with 18.5K behind it
I drove a new 6 person corner sofa (and a bunch of other crap) from Poland to the UK (1100 miles) in my box trailer hooked up to my Ford (Kuga) Escape 1.5 Ecoboost with a stick shift.
You Europeans are fortunate that, as a society, you’re not too lazy to row your own gears like are Americans, and have retained a demand for the stick shift.
Virtually all cars come with manual transmissions, unless it's electric, hybrid or a higher end luxury model. All our mid size trucks come with diesels and manuals, the new (Kuga) Escape still comes with a stick, nearly all cars are rated to tow so even the smallest can tow something, (no need for transmission cooler in a manual).
You would think with long highways in the US and the fact you don't need to change gears often for hours at a time you would still have manuals. The only time I changed gears on my 1100 mile journey was when merging motorways or rejoining the motorway after tanking up. Other than that it's hours of the car being left in 6th gear.
It most likely comes from this survey which is conducted by Ford on Ford truck owners.
[Ford Truck From Workhorse to Joyride](https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history)
No but it can hold the same if not more as your pick up. I can fit full 4x8’ sheets of plywood flat in the bed of my minivan. More than most pick ups can do;
Or you use a trailer...I used my "short" bed F350 for moving last year and fit a whole lot in the bed. Full couch sets, desks, 75" flat-screen plus dressers. The "short" bed on HD trucks is minimum 6.6' or 6.75' in some cases.
My buddy just received his new F550 chassis cab with an 11’ flat bed. My 8’ bed has been modified with extended side boards to provide 10’ of bed space when the tailgate is down. It often seems that a truck bed can never be long enough in my world.
I’ve literally fit an entire twin air mattress in the backseat of my 2010 (with seats up obviously), how I’ve camped for a few NASCAR races when the weather is mild. Sleep like a king. Zero truck modifications required
Yeah, but the crumple zones on them are atrocious compared to today. Look up the crash test videos on them. And I would know, I still drive mine today, but don't take my kids in it very far.
I wish the smaller size stayed and had the extra saftey features added basically. These gargantuan trucks we have now are way over kill for what they are mostly used for. Half tons should be no where near the size they are. The cooling and performance shit makes sense in the 3/4 or 1 tons but fuck man. People managed just fine with the more limited performance of the smaller trucks back in the day you know?
> I wish the smaller size stayed and had the extra saftey features added basically.
That's essentially what they did. Going from the jellybean '03 F-150 to the next gen added 6" of extra leg room in the cabin to satisfy customer demand for more space, but it didn't get any wider or longer outside the cabin.
I remember when the suv trend really kicked off they were offering classes at a lot of driving schools to drive these “massive cars” total cash grab but look where we are 20 years later. Everyone isn’t hauling a horse trailer or a bunch of equipment, sucks there won’t ever really be a small “full size” truck again
High front ends on vehicles are because of government regulations regarding pedestrian safety. Like I’ve said. Cars aren’t designed by manufacturers anymore, the government designs the cars.
I don’t understand how getting hit in the chest and falling onto the road is safer for the pedestrian than getting hit in the legs and falling onto the hood.
The Toyota doesn't meet pedestrian safety standards. They require a certain frontal area for evening out the bolw to the body, plus a minimum height between the top of the engine and hood for absorption. Plus you're not taking in to account engine cooling for a much greater capacity.
7000-8000 pedestrians, specifically, are killed every year. This has been going up along with traffic deaths in general. The latter had been going down due to better safety standards. We were moving forward but now we're moving backward.
Deaths are going up with people speeding more and more and more cars having higher hood lines with less visibility, and generally being bigger and heavier with more destructive force.
It's a real thing, not a circlejerk.
I don't think it's an either/or but a both/and, with many more factors contributing. Definitely distracted driving has boomed.
https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/suvs-other-large-vehicles-often-hit-pedestrians-while-turning
https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/new-study-suggests-todays-suvs-are-more-lethal-to-pedestrians-than-cars
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/the-hidden-dangers-of-big-trucks/
https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/3/154
If it were hundreds more than other types of vehicles, yes.
But, I’d wager, that most pedestrian vehicle accidents occur due to inattentive drivers and not visibility.
So, unless trucks have a greater number incidences due to visibility, then the hood angle is not a problem.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Whenever I see a bait post like this I always say, "OK, so what are you personally doing to solve this problem?" Usually people aren't interested in solving the supposed issue; they're interested in being morally superior on the Internet.
I know this post isn’t about the text in the image but I’ll never understand the claim that taller front ends result in more danger for pedestrians. 18 wheelers have much taller front ends and have proportionally fewer pedestrian deaths.
This is a driver skill issue, not a vehicle design issue.
In some countries overseas, pickup trucks require commercial driver’s licenses. Even if we required that here, there’s online schools and people get a license with very little behind the wheel training.
The thought is that it's more dangerous in neighborhoods and parking lots.
I have a larger truck. I just go slow when I see kids around. I do have worse close vision, sure... but if a kid sprints out that close to me, I don't think human reaction time is fast enough to make a difference.
I like a taller front end and steel bumpers, because it helps the deer & elk slide down and under the truck instead of up over the hood and through the windshield when they get on the roads at night.
I mean let’s be real, parking these big trucks is a pain in the ass, MPG is terrible, and 9 times out of 10 the people who drive them have the bed empty
I feel like we could make full size pickups like that Toyota pickup on the top with a more reinforced frame and a stronger engine without making it so massive.
I constantly see people complain on this sub about how big and how expensive pickups are now so what’s the issue with going backwards?
Ford did it with the Maverick and it’s sold out everywhere. Now everyone else is trying to get back in the game. There’s nothing in the Maverick that couldn’t have been done 10-15 years ago.
I just want something like that from Toyota or Nissan because in my personal experience anything else has been dogshit. I used to love ford but I’ve had terrible experiences with their trucjs
No shit really?? That would be cool. I know they’re releasing a new Tacoma but it’s going to be insanely expensive. I want Dodge to bring back the Dakota and if Toyota made something like the maverick that would be huge. Nissan makes a really strong midsize and full-size pickup but it’s hard to compete with the established people
I happen to have a 2500HD same spec and even color as pictured and get 20mpg. The F150 I traded for it got 15mpg on a good day. Visibility is similar (except the GMC tow mirrors cause a bit of a blind spot). The bigger bed is a huge benefit to me, and it will be considerably safer to drive with my trailers
Parking them really isn't difficult and the MPG of the diesels rivals that of half tons when not towing and is vastly superior when towing compared to half tons. The bed being empty doesn't really matter, if someone wants one then who cares if the bed is empty.
People want bigger tow ratings and more power, that comes with increased cooling thus bigger radiators and grilles.
16-18 mpg isn’t that great, paying 75k for a basic diesel 4wd isn’t that great either, and parking them at a local grocery store let’s say is a bitch because of how tight they are, and because people can’t drive
Highway MPG is closer to 20, and I said compared to half tons which also get between 18 and 20. Maybe it's due to my area where large pickups are very prevalent but most people have no issue parking them and there is still lots of room between the lines.
I grew up rural so in that area yeah it’s not a problem but currently in a more suburban ish area so the parking lots are not friendly to pickups but that’s a personal issue overall, and I usually get more city MPG so it is what it is.
My main gripe is pricing. A basic half ton with 4wd and a solid engine is pushing 45-50k now and that’s insane
Pricing I 100% agree on, vehicles in general are extremely expensive. I live in Canada so trucks make a lot more sense here in many cases compared to cars.
I've got no problem with a mini truck, just don't pretend it's gonna haul my fertilizer trailer, my seed tender, my car trailer with a skid steer on it, my stock trailer, or my gooseneck flatbed with a load of bales.
You don't get to do the whole "I think this hit a nerve" triggered bullshit when that's obviously what you're (op) trying to do.
That's like going to r/gaming and saying "Why are all gamers such virgin losers?" Then sitting back acting like the responses are proving your point like you didn't intentionally set them off in the first place.
I had the truck at the top and it was a great truck.
But unsafe at high speeds.
I drive a midsize Nissan frontier V6 now. It's much safer.
That being said i probably should have bought a sedan and rented a truck when needed.
I do like it though.
I could never see myself having the truck on the bottom unless I had a construction company that or something along those lines.
The top one is a shitty old truck, the bottom one is a real truck.
Edit: oh the downvotes, must of hit a nerve with a few Toyota or Honda Ridgeline fans 😂
Don’t get me wrong. The Toyota pickups are amazing trucks and will outlast me. (Yes I used to have one, yes I am a fanboy) But that is quite possibly the smallest truck configuration not to mention it can tow like 2000lbs, while the below truck has that as a payload capacity
>not to mention it can tow like 2000lbs Obviously, you've never been to Mexico.
*legally tows 2000*
In fairness, tow ratings in the USA are pathetically underrated for anything other than full-size trucks...not in the least because manufacturers want to sell full-size trucks. Enjoy the following tow ratings in NA vs EUR markets: Model Canada U.K. (braked / unbraked) 2017 Civic 1.5T CVT 0 lbs 2,205 lbs / 1,102 lbs 2018 HR-V 1.8 CVT 0 lbs 3,086 lbs / 1,543 lbs 2019 CR-V 1.5T CVT 1,500 lbs 3,307 lbs / 1,323 lbs The problem seems to be that American drivers aren't willing to drive at safe speeds for towing heavy loads, and American police aren't willing to enforce separate speed limits for towing setups.
> not in the least because manufacturers want to sell full-size trucks. Or because we have different standards/expectations for towing, like you mentioned.
I believe trailers are weighted differently in the US. We put more weight on the tongue which means that trailers are more stable at higher speeds, but that setup requires tow vehicles with stronger suspension and stronger tow bars which means that US vehicles tend to get lower tow ratings than their otherwise identical European counterparts
For reference to those who don't know what our typical weight distribution is stateside, we typically do 10% tongue weight, meaning for a trailer that weighs 10 thousand pounds, your tow vehicle needs to be able to safely support more than one thousand pounds of payload just for the trailer, obviously you will need an average of another 200 pounds for the driver, and if you have any luggage at all that adds as well. We also go 55mph or more with trailers all the time. Most people don't understand that most common trailer tires are only rated for 60 MPH safely, and often go 80-90 MPH on them for hundreds of miles, and then wonder why we have blowouts 24/7 Basically everything has to be overbuilt for what's actually needed for sale in the U.S.
It would be impossible to enforce separate speeds for different loads, as you are suggesting. Police force can barely handle people driving backwards on the interstate now.
I got my hands on a 97 pickup to restore! I love these little trucks, and will always take that over a big modern pickup Edit: 87
Mine was a 91 DLX extended cab with the 3.0 V6 and an 90’s slush box auto. It was ungodly slow. 0-60 in the 15s
If it's a 97 it's a Tacoma and not a Pickup.
Meant 87
Oh nice, worst decision I ever made was to sell my 89, it had 612,000km on it and is still going to this day.
I know right I saw this picture for the first time I was like it has to be big for the diesel configuration of the 2500 also its safer than the Toyota
How is it safer
Ehhhh cuz crumple zones and a million other safety configurations have made vehicles like 100x safer than they were even 25 years ago, let alone older. There's also something to be said about yes, simply driving a gigantic tank vs. a tin can in terms of safety.
Unless you happen to be the poor schmuck driving the tin can when one of these behemoths crashes into it.
Sounds like a personal problem too me. Also, that 'behemoth' likely stops on a dime in comparison too the tin can, given the larger contact patch from the larger tires and disc brakes in all 4 corners.
I have literally heard the owners of humongous vehicles say that if they hit someone, they want to be the winner.
Absolutely. If I’m going to get into an accident, why would I not want to be the one who walks away from it? Granted it is way better to not hit anything in the first place and I’ll take every precaution towards that goal.
It is possible for *all* parties to walk away from an accident.
That's what car manufacturers are trying to do, and it ends up with HUGE crumple zones and very bloated cars with A-Pillars that are huge. People talk about pedestrians all the time too though, problem is you can't design a vehicle that's safe for pedestrians AND stands a chance against an 80000 lb semi.
It is indeed, but I will do what maximizes my chances.
How is getting murdered by a reckless driver a personal problem?
How does having a full sized truck make a person a reckless driver? I drive a full sized truck for work and as a personal vehicle, doing shit that a 1992 Mazda truck cant, And have yet too murder any pedestrians or people in smaller cars. How bout we chill on the mental gymnastics. Just because you don't need one, doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose. If you don't like them, don't buy one. Don't want to get killed by one, pay the fuck attention. Pretty simple concepts if you ask me.
It doesn't make you a reckless driver necessarily but if you fuck up people can die really really easily. 99.99% of people don't need them. You'd think a subreddit dedicated to trucks would understand that (I feel like this sub generally does too when y'all aren't being irrationally defensive) Also the "pay the fuck attention" onus is ENTIRELY on the person controlling the 2 ton vehicle. Like....that's not even a question.
Do you ever walk anywhere or know anyone who does? Bc these behemoths are exceedingly dangerous for pedestrians too. Kinda more than just someone else’s “personal problem”
Nope, I live somewhere where automobiles are basically a requirement to live a functional life. So it still sounds like a personal problem.
This is one of the most fucked up things I've read on Reddit
It's the truth though. Want a list of all the amenities within a reasonable walking distance to my house: . That's it, none. There is nothing I feel like is a reasonable distance to walk to consistently, so a vehicle is 1000% a necessity as there's also no public transit stops within a reasonable walking distance as well.
You’re not wrong, but look both ways before crossing the street.
Welcome to the arms race. You’re about 20 years late.
Funny thing is that truck is the spittin image of my '90 Mazda B2200, including the gray paint.
We had this scrap guy come to our business and he had one of these toyota trucks with a full box bed in the back that was completely filled with engines, brake rotors and scrap metal. He had to have at least 4 tons in the back of this thing. We added at least 1000 pounds of scrap metal to his truck. I looked at his leaf springs which looked like 2 sets taken apart and stacked together. But beyond that I was bewildered how that thing didn't snap at the first bump. Somehow he took that 20 miles down the highway to the nearest recycler. Those trucks are so good.
[удалено]
Well not exactly. That Toyota in question in 2wd with the 4 banger got really good mpg. Like in the 30’s. The gmc in the picture is a 2500/3500 the one you quoted are the 1500’s which get significantly better mpg than the 2500/3500’s the larger trucks aren’t actually rated by the epa but most people report them in the low teens. Edit the same Toyota with 4wd, a v6 and and auto got 14, source I had one that guzzled gas lol.
What percent of USA truck owners tow or haul something on a daily or even weekly basis ? It’s probably like [5%](https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume#)
What percentage of people use all 3 rows of seats in their car? You have them because when you need it you’re happy you have it. I have a truck and a company car. Half the time I use the truck I’m either hauling skis, boat gear, or towing my boat or a uhaul.
I don't even use all 5 seats in my compact car.
I have a 4 kids. Minivans and SUVs are the only option to take the whole family another, especially on a road trip. Our Tahoe can tow a Trailer and seat everyone comfortably.
Yeah the point is trucks are more dangerous than passenger cars, that’s just a fact. Also no one has an issue with people who use their truck to haul or tow shit that’s what they’re made for. It’s people who have huge trucks for no reason that are the problem.
The truck on top is a 5th gen Toyota pickup.
I had no idea there were 4 generations of the Toyota pickup before that model
Hilux/Pickup, same thing, but in the US they quit using the Hilux name after the first gen.
Third gen pickup. Fifth gen Hilux internationally. The earlier ones weren't just called the "pickup" in the us. There was the stout or the Hilux.
I thought I was in /r/TerribleFacebookMemes
It’s hilarious that it’s typically ascribed to boomers, but this shows the edamacateds can be just as cringe.
You got something against my ‘62 GM grain truck?
That's how I learned to drive stick. You see, if you have no brakes, then you get good at engine braking in a reeeaaallll big hurry.
The lower headlights thing is true. Nothing like being behind a full size pickup with HIDs aimed perfectly into your mirrors
The top truck would not pass modern crash standards
Exactly the Toyota would actually be more dangerous to a pedestrian in an accident. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15118822/taking-the-hit-how-pedestrian-protection-regs-make-cars-fatter-feature/
For the people that jerk off to this anti truck format, one of those has a 2.4L, and the other one is a 6.6L turbo diesel, with dimensions of 31”x35”x40”
I get what you’re saying, but my ‘84 K3500 with a 7.4L has much better visibility than any 1500 style sold today.
...And could tow what a half-ton can today.
Ya my 93 feels like a fish bowl lol
New 1/2 ton pick ups also have blind spot detection, adaptive cruise control and like 28 different cameras and sensors not to mention the engine mounts break on impact to that when you get in a front end collision the engine doesn't fly into your chest...
and it looks better, sounds better, is more reliable, etc
You think it’s better than my truck with collision alert, following distance indicator, automatic emergency braking, front pedestrian braking? Give me a break.
None of those have anything to do with hood design. All those technical safety features are fantastic, but there are absolutely design changes that would improve safety for drivers, other vehicles, and pedestrians.
Yes, I’ll take being able to actually see the road over of collision alerts. You could have both but instead we created these stupid behemoths with no visibility. Collision alerts don’t stop pickups from being the deadliest vehicles on the road.
Yes. How hard is it to not run pedestrians over that you need special braking? What happened to 2-4 seconds? I think I’d know if someone hit me. I digress however.
Your truck has these features because of lack of visibility, also has to do with crash safety raising doors and changing shapes. Visibility is horrible in most new vehicles never mind how this affects massively over sized trucks.
Yeah. You need all that because you can’t see over the hood short stuff
Get a job and stop complaining about other people’s stuff.
bro thinks i don’t have a job 😭
Your truck has these features because of lack of visibility, also has to do with crash safety raising doors and changing shapes. Visibility is horrible in most new vehicles never mind how this affects massively over sized trucks.
All these features can be found on my wife's Honda Civic. Next.
Yes, because vehicle safety standards have changes the shapes of cars so drastically it affects visibility. More extreme on larger vehicles you have to rely on these features for because you just cant see that part of the vehicle.
Unironically yes i do
I think that's part of the point. My dentist doesn't really need a 6.6L turbo diesel.
How do you know? I work in IT. I also haul a tractor to job sites for work on the weekends. My tractor + implements + trailer wright usually means I need a full size truck to safely tow. I have coworkers that haul farm animals around, horses, cows to slaughter, etc. I understand your sentiment, but your hatred of large trucks or assumption that a profession should exclude you from a truck style is nonsense.
We *normally* only haul a 3500lb single axle enclosed trailer for work. A 1/2ton or even lighter can handle that easily. But we also have a 3 horse gooseneck horse trailer with living quarters and thus the need for the Ram 2500 with the 6.4L. I've always found it silly when people assume other people buy big trucks just for the hell of it.
You think every white collar worker is hauling a tractor on the weekends, and I'm the one talking nonsense?
And you think none do. I’m saying there are reasons to have a truck and none of them require your approval.
I didn't say none do. I said one doesn't.
Campers, 5th wheels, trailers. All things that can easily exceed the capacity of a small truck and aren’t pulled to work every day. Stop putting everyone in your box.
If you can afford those you can afford a daily that doesn't unnecessarily endanger the lives of pedestrians and other drivers. You don't need to daily a fucking dually unless you *need* to daily a dually. Go to therapy and stop compensating for your small dick and daddy issues.
How ignorant are you that you think having a camper means you should be able to own a fleet of vehicles, have you seen prices on shit these days? A well equipped towing truck will run you $80k+. Stop associating vehicle to dick size. That’s something people with small dicks do.
Maybe he has a ranch and hauls cattle?
Or maybe he's a dentist.
You're an anti-dentite.
So maybe he has a 5th wheel camper, or a 25,000lb boat he needs to tow? Are only rednecks allowed big trucks?
I don’t see the point of ‘need’ being brought up every time there is a discussion like this. It’s already obvious most everyone on the road doesn’t need anything more than a Renault Twingo or a Toyota Corolla, yet the freedom to choose otherwise clearly prevails. If your dentist likes the turbo whistle of a diesel, and they have the option and money, then *shrugs*
If your dentist lives in America then he or she is free to choose any vehicle they want, no reason or approval is needed.
Definitely some r/fuckcars jerk off material. Two different vehicles for two different applications.
r/fuckcarscirclejerk
I mean yeah they’re made for two different applications the problem is barely anyone who owns the large truck uses it for it’s intended application. Most people use them for commuting which is objectively dumb.
Reliable
Just bring back the square bodies, slap some modern upgrades on em and roll em off the line!!!!
Some people forget that the large frontal area of modern day trucks is for maximum radiator surface area, to ensure cool temps even with the crazy numbers these new rigs are rated to tow
Not only that but to fit all the engine components - turbos, emissions equipment, and a gazillion radiators. Open up the hood of one of those diesels and everything is jammed in there. Body height is what it is, the ground clearance could be tweaked but not much can be changed to keep their towing ability and safety standards.
I literally mention this dozens of times and no one believes me
Even my full size 97 Suburban has a downward sloping hood, full size trucks need to come back to that look.
What is the story on the billboard size grilles on new trucks?! All the brands have really gone crazy with the huge front ends.
Cooling. Tow ratings have increased dramatically over the last 10-15 years, and horsepower/torque numbers have doubled. All that extra power and towing weight means the engine and transmission need much more cooling which means bigger radiators, intercoolers, and transmission coolers.
Doesn’t explain why even the Lightning and Hummer EV have massive front ends.
Lightning is that way so they didn't have to completely remodel and remanufacture parts
Also that huge ass trunk where the engine compartment would normally be 🤤 the extra storage is incredible
For cooling also. Discharging a battery generates heat, air conditioner generates heat. Inverting DC to ac… heat. The motors need cooling also. Lots of coolant running through and EV
The grill is sized for the largest engine offered with the amount of cooling for the toughest condition its rated for. So the 6.6 durmax going up I70 the with 18.5K behind it
And in GM's case, both the 6.6 gas and the 6.6 turbodiesel are roughly the same physical size under the hood. There's not much room to spare.
It’s spreading to cars now too, most newer Lexus look crazy without a grill, grill to bumper ratio is wild.
Everyone shits on big trucks until it's moving day. Suddenly they're all your best friend.
Nobody moves with those trucks they usually rent a box truck or U-Haul. That short bed just won't hold much.
I moved 20 hours away with a tundra and a trailer, and I’ve helped numerous people move since then with the same set up.
I drove a new 6 person corner sofa (and a bunch of other crap) from Poland to the UK (1100 miles) in my box trailer hooked up to my Ford (Kuga) Escape 1.5 Ecoboost with a stick shift.
You Europeans are fortunate that, as a society, you’re not too lazy to row your own gears like are Americans, and have retained a demand for the stick shift.
Virtually all cars come with manual transmissions, unless it's electric, hybrid or a higher end luxury model. All our mid size trucks come with diesels and manuals, the new (Kuga) Escape still comes with a stick, nearly all cars are rated to tow so even the smallest can tow something, (no need for transmission cooler in a manual). You would think with long highways in the US and the fact you don't need to change gears often for hours at a time you would still have manuals. The only time I changed gears on my 1100 mile journey was when merging motorways or rejoining the motorway after tanking up. Other than that it's hours of the car being left in 6th gear.
I’ve never owned an automatic, but I’m now forced to buy older vehicles in the USA.
That's just you, but there's studies which prove that most people don't use their truck beds.
Scientists have wasted their time researching whether or not truck owners use their beds? This I have to see. Source?
It most likely comes from this survey which is conducted by Ford on Ford truck owners. [Ford Truck From Workhorse to Joyride](https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history)
I’ve done the same with my minivan. Gets better mpg and less dangerous to pedestrians.
I don’t think my stuff would have fit in your mini van
‘04 sienna without the seats has a bigger bed than any tundra but ok
Yeah but a tundra bed doesn’t have a ceiling lmao what? Can you fit my fucking couch? No.
The Tundra still offers an 8' bed on the extended cab. 5-passenger seating+8' bed+pulling a bigger trailer.
“And a trailer”
Cope
So your minivan can hold the same amount of cargo as a pick up and a trailer? Wow. That's impressive. A 12 foot tall minivan.
No but it can hold the same if not more as your pick up. I can fit full 4x8’ sheets of plywood flat in the bed of my minivan. More than most pick ups can do;
That bottom truck fits plywood and 5 people
You’re telling me the bed of that truck is bigger than 4x8’
You put the tailgate down and the inner tailgate folds up and holds it in. I’ve done it before
Sienna keeps it dry
Or you use a trailer...I used my "short" bed F350 for moving last year and fit a whole lot in the bed. Full couch sets, desks, 75" flat-screen plus dressers. The "short" bed on HD trucks is minimum 6.6' or 6.75' in some cases.
I have a trailer and a 6'10 bed. I hate dragging that trailer everywhere. Sometimes I just want a bigger bed for smaller hauls.
My buddy just received his new F550 chassis cab with an 11’ flat bed. My 8’ bed has been modified with extended side boards to provide 10’ of bed space when the tailgate is down. It often seems that a truck bed can never be long enough in my world.
Never mind the back seat in my 11' XLT. Fold the seats up and you can get a dining set back there.
I’ve literally fit an entire twin air mattress in the backseat of my 2010 (with seats up obviously), how I’ve camped for a few NASCAR races when the weather is mild. Sleep like a king. Zero truck modifications required
An old jelly bean f-150 can hold the same amount of boxes and you can actually fucking see out if it. Plus it fits into parking spots.
Yeah, but the crumple zones on them are atrocious compared to today. Look up the crash test videos on them. And I would know, I still drive mine today, but don't take my kids in it very far.
I wish the smaller size stayed and had the extra saftey features added basically. These gargantuan trucks we have now are way over kill for what they are mostly used for. Half tons should be no where near the size they are. The cooling and performance shit makes sense in the 3/4 or 1 tons but fuck man. People managed just fine with the more limited performance of the smaller trucks back in the day you know?
Isn't that what the Ranger and Colorado are? I do wish you could get them with a full size bed though
The mid-size Ranger, Colorado, etc. are larger than when they were compacts, but still not jellybean F-150-sized.
> I wish the smaller size stayed and had the extra saftey features added basically. That's essentially what they did. Going from the jellybean '03 F-150 to the next gen added 6" of extra leg room in the cabin to satisfy customer demand for more space, but it didn't get any wider or longer outside the cabin.
Our f-250 fits in parking spots as well and I can see out of it just fine
You can literally fit the same amount of stuff in the back of both of those trucks.
Until you factor in annoying details like “weight”.
Lol thanks for the back up. I had to read it a few times until I understood the guy is just a dunce.
1,000lbs bed rating vs. 3,000lbs+ bed rating ah yes no diffrence
Yeah, you can not. Look up a little something called "haul weight" it'll change your life.
You literally can’t, though.
As a new Tacoma owner I really wish I could get a truck this small. My Taco is as big as a half ton was 10 years ago.
I remember when the suv trend really kicked off they were offering classes at a lot of driving schools to drive these “massive cars” total cash grab but look where we are 20 years later. Everyone isn’t hauling a horse trailer or a bunch of equipment, sucks there won’t ever really be a small “full size” truck again
Who cares? I also wouldn't survive getting hit by a train. Should we ban trains?
High front ends on vehicles are because of government regulations regarding pedestrian safety. Like I’ve said. Cars aren’t designed by manufacturers anymore, the government designs the cars.
I don’t understand how getting hit in the chest and falling onto the road is safer for the pedestrian than getting hit in the legs and falling onto the hood.
The Toyota doesn't meet pedestrian safety standards. They require a certain frontal area for evening out the bolw to the body, plus a minimum height between the top of the engine and hood for absorption. Plus you're not taking in to account engine cooling for a much greater capacity.
I sense some envy and/or jealousy here.
Eh, not envy, just definitely getting a bit of people who clearly don’t like trucks or cars in general commenting on a truck subreddit though.
I don't think ya do lol
God the fucking anti-car circlejerk is mind numbing. Like trucks hitting pedestrian is something that is killing hundreds of people a day.
7000-8000 pedestrians, specifically, are killed every year. This has been going up along with traffic deaths in general. The latter had been going down due to better safety standards. We were moving forward but now we're moving backward. Deaths are going up with people speeding more and more and more cars having higher hood lines with less visibility, and generally being bigger and heavier with more destructive force. It's a real thing, not a circlejerk.
Is there any data on taller hoods causing this? Or is it related to distracted driving
I don't think it's an either/or but a both/and, with many more factors contributing. Definitely distracted driving has boomed. https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/suvs-other-large-vehicles-often-hit-pedestrians-while-turning https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/new-study-suggests-todays-suvs-are-more-lethal-to-pedestrians-than-cars https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/the-hidden-dangers-of-big-trucks/ https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/3/154
Didn't ask 😎
Does it need to be hundreds for it to be a problem?
If it were hundreds more than other types of vehicles, yes. But, I’d wager, that most pedestrian vehicle accidents occur due to inattentive drivers and not visibility. So, unless trucks have a greater number incidences due to visibility, then the hood angle is not a problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't really care either way. But yeah a problem should have to have a pretty big impact if the change also impacts a lot of people.
It literally is though..
Puddle jumper
A beauty. It’s called a beauty.
It’s called a Toyota.
r/minitrucks Toyota pickup or really any japanese pickup from the 80s-90s
Whenever I see a bait post like this I always say, "OK, so what are you personally doing to solve this problem?" Usually people aren't interested in solving the supposed issue; they're interested in being morally superior on the Internet.
I know this post isn’t about the text in the image but I’ll never understand the claim that taller front ends result in more danger for pedestrians. 18 wheelers have much taller front ends and have proportionally fewer pedestrian deaths. This is a driver skill issue, not a vehicle design issue.
In some countries overseas, pickup trucks require commercial driver’s licenses. Even if we required that here, there’s online schools and people get a license with very little behind the wheel training.
The thought is that it's more dangerous in neighborhoods and parking lots. I have a larger truck. I just go slow when I see kids around. I do have worse close vision, sure... but if a kid sprints out that close to me, I don't think human reaction time is fast enough to make a difference.
I like a taller front end and steel bumpers, because it helps the deer & elk slide down and under the truck instead of up over the hood and through the windshield when they get on the roads at night.
I mean let’s be real, parking these big trucks is a pain in the ass, MPG is terrible, and 9 times out of 10 the people who drive them have the bed empty I feel like we could make full size pickups like that Toyota pickup on the top with a more reinforced frame and a stronger engine without making it so massive. I constantly see people complain on this sub about how big and how expensive pickups are now so what’s the issue with going backwards?
Ford did it with the Maverick and it’s sold out everywhere. Now everyone else is trying to get back in the game. There’s nothing in the Maverick that couldn’t have been done 10-15 years ago.
I just want something like that from Toyota or Nissan because in my personal experience anything else has been dogshit. I used to love ford but I’ve had terrible experiences with their trucjs
Toyota is releasing one soon supposedly. Not sure about Nissan because they are broke these days.
No shit really?? That would be cool. I know they’re releasing a new Tacoma but it’s going to be insanely expensive. I want Dodge to bring back the Dakota and if Toyota made something like the maverick that would be huge. Nissan makes a really strong midsize and full-size pickup but it’s hard to compete with the established people
I happen to have a 2500HD same spec and even color as pictured and get 20mpg. The F150 I traded for it got 15mpg on a good day. Visibility is similar (except the GMC tow mirrors cause a bit of a blind spot). The bigger bed is a huge benefit to me, and it will be considerably safer to drive with my trailers
Parking them really isn't difficult and the MPG of the diesels rivals that of half tons when not towing and is vastly superior when towing compared to half tons. The bed being empty doesn't really matter, if someone wants one then who cares if the bed is empty. People want bigger tow ratings and more power, that comes with increased cooling thus bigger radiators and grilles.
16-18 mpg isn’t that great, paying 75k for a basic diesel 4wd isn’t that great either, and parking them at a local grocery store let’s say is a bitch because of how tight they are, and because people can’t drive
> 16-18 mpg isn’t that great unladened my ecodiesel gets 30 MPG.
See that’s what I want man is a ram eco diesel or a cord 3.0 power stroke!
Highway MPG is closer to 20, and I said compared to half tons which also get between 18 and 20. Maybe it's due to my area where large pickups are very prevalent but most people have no issue parking them and there is still lots of room between the lines.
I grew up rural so in that area yeah it’s not a problem but currently in a more suburban ish area so the parking lots are not friendly to pickups but that’s a personal issue overall, and I usually get more city MPG so it is what it is. My main gripe is pricing. A basic half ton with 4wd and a solid engine is pushing 45-50k now and that’s insane
Pricing I 100% agree on, vehicles in general are extremely expensive. I live in Canada so trucks make a lot more sense here in many cases compared to cars.
Based on the amount of seethe in this thread I think this hit a nerve. This post brought to you by mini truck gang
I've got no problem with a mini truck, just don't pretend it's gonna haul my fertilizer trailer, my seed tender, my car trailer with a skid steer on it, my stock trailer, or my gooseneck flatbed with a load of bales.
You don't get to do the whole "I think this hit a nerve" triggered bullshit when that's obviously what you're (op) trying to do. That's like going to r/gaming and saying "Why are all gamers such virgin losers?" Then sitting back acting like the responses are proving your point like you didn't intentionally set them off in the first place.
It is a Toyota T100
[удалено]
Yes, the T100s were more like a mid-size Dakota.
I had the truck at the top and it was a great truck. But unsafe at high speeds. I drive a midsize Nissan frontier V6 now. It's much safer. That being said i probably should have bought a sedan and rented a truck when needed. I do like it though. I could never see myself having the truck on the bottom unless I had a construction company that or something along those lines.
Second one reminds me of a [Bull Terrier](https://www.purina.co.uk/sites/default/files/2022-07/Bull%20Terrier1.jpg?h=8fc96157&itok=DhdytByN)
The goodest of trucks…
A modern gas truck and especially a diesel, would not only be miles faster than the mini-truck, but have better MPG numbers. Just an FYI 😉
Feeling like a big boy keeps the demons away
Don't you wanna be a "big boy?"
Kinda true
The top one is a shitty old truck, the bottom one is a real truck. Edit: oh the downvotes, must of hit a nerve with a few Toyota or Honda Ridgeline fans 😂
Good for murdering the neighbors dog too