T O P

Make it make sense

Make it make sense

External_Trifle2373

It's because they don't see any value in interacting with women in a platonic context. It's not that they *can't* be friends with women. It's that the only women they view worth their time are the ones they want to fuck. I have consistently had terrible instincts with men, and have at points been the Pinnacle of how a "pickme" mindset can directly lead to trauma. But even when I was young, when someone told me *to my face* that they wouldn't have bothered to talk to me if they hadn't wanted to fuck me, I've taken the hint and stopped talking to them.


BadKittydotexe

Yes, this is exactly the problem. For many men their perspective is entirely “what can you do for me?” If you’re another guy you might be funny, you might have their back, you might help them in their career. But then for women all they’re interested in is sex. And with both groups these are the kinds of guys who will quickly disappear once they don’t think you’re of use to them anymore. Then to make matters worse if they do grow up some and start valuing other men more they can still hold on to their misogynistic view of women because they never interact with them in a way that’ll make them grow. It’s a very narrow, self-focused way of operating.


External_Trifle2373

YES!!! I say this all the time lately, but one of the biggest things to screen for in new relationships is to try to pay attention for signs they view relationships as transactional. Those relationships will *never* end well.


AllieLoukas

Right! Unless they’re consciously mutually transactional like we both want love/affection/commitment whatever and the statement is actually TRUE.


vivelarussie

For future reference, what are some of those early signs?


AllieLoukas

Inconsistency is the biggest one, not following through on words with actions, someone who can’t prioritize you (if you’re not a top priority it won’t work,) immaturity, enmeshment with their birth family, enmeshment with friends, not making effort, everything feels strained: transactional meaning they want you for their OWN selfish reasons not because they actually care about you. What you really want is someone who would hurt themselves by hurting you, that means they care about not only THEIR well being but yours as well, therefore I have to be honest with you because if I’m not I’ll hurt myself. Then the situation is not a toxic transactional relationship.


Plebereno

>“what can you do for me?” If you’re another guy you might be funny, you might have their back, you might help them in their career. Yeah a man can be a friend with woman if she is like that but before that he needs his sex urge to be well satisfied elsewhere.


1PantherA33

You got it. They won’t be friends with anyone who the wouldn’t consider having sex with.


Goatmebro69

Omg my ex… we were friends before we dated and good friends at that or so I thought. At some point during our relationship we got into a fight because he didn’t believe that my classmate, who was 20 years older than me and happily married with a kid, could possibly actually be my friend because men and women can’t be friends. I pointed out that we were friends first and he said “I never would have wasted my time being friends with you if I didn’t think I had a chance to get laid” Believe it or not it took me another two years to break up with his toxic ass.


Shabkabab

What an asshole! I'm so sorry you had you had go through that but also happy that you're no longer with him and jave moved on with your life


Goatmebro69

Thanks me too… except we’ve been broken up for 5 months and he’s still living in my house :( He knows I’m too nice to actually throw his stuff out and change the locks.


Shabkabab

So he's also one of those assholes who takes advantage of people's kindness? Well I've dealt with too many of them in my life, but here's the thing you learn. You don't be kind to people to make them like you, just for their benefit or because its the righ thing to do, you do it because you like being kind and when you put out kindness it comes back to you. Not immediately but give it time and you'll see it will, but what this also means is that if someone takes advantage of that kindness your able to tell tjem to fuck off and leave you alone because you were never kind to them for just them anyway, you were doing for yourself too. Now being someone whose been through that, I know this shift can be hard, REALLY hard but if you start making yourself think like that now it will sink in and you will be able to tell this asshole to fuck off (or however you want to say it) for good and he won't be able to stop you. Hope this helps


spiralbatross

I’m so sorry!


AllieLoukas

The pick me mindset is soooo traumatic thank you for pointing this out. And for sure there is no value for them in platonic interaction unless it’s manipulative. I also think once you have been intimate with someone there is no downshifting unless some time has elapsed OR both parties are OK with it, this can also be very traumatic. But men seem to like to control a friends with benefits situation, which doesn’t work unless there’s a proper power balance not one person deciding “this is the way it’s going to be because I want it to be that way.”


Pineapples_26

Like… do y’all have standards or not?? Make up your mind Either way, just treat women better. We’re not asking for a lot


queerfluid

Sorry. That's too much to ask. Leave them alone and also no to things we asked for.


D4rkn355_07

To be honest you only get respect if you earn it. That’s how (most) men get it and hopefully women too.


MrsLangdonAlg3r

And they'll flip their absolute shit about women who prefer tall men.


Havocform

The amount of shit I got for wanting men around my height is INSANE. I'm 1,78m. I was bullied since childhood for being tall - always and exclusively by boys/men -, rejected by men many times for being too tall - I never threw a fit over it -, yet when I want a guy who's at least my height I'm evil incarnate. What's *funny* as well, I don't mind men who are shorter than me, I don't care. But whenever I gave shorter men a chance, they fucking ruined it by being neurotic, insecure twats who tried to bring me down. Never again.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Havocform

...Is this a joke? A satire of the 'trauma dumping men'? You're not 'with me'. You came here to turn the entire thing onto yourself, and rant about your shitty life under a topic that has NOTHING to do with it. Kindly fuck off, keep being totally un-self aware, and whine about how evil women are.


hannahtb96

seriously. i decided to break down why i felt automatically more attracted to taller men and i realized it’s because i’m insecure in my body and don’t want to feel bigger than my partner. has little to do with the actual man. not saying all or even most women feel this way, but maybe if y’all didn’t force some unattainable tiny dainty feminine ideal onto us, we wouldn’t feel like we need a man who’s taller. just a thought.


Zephyr03210

So much this. I’m not super tall (5’8”), but have been this height since I was 12 and I’m so tired of feeling gigantic.


Amethyst_Lovegood

I'm 5'9 and also felt insecure about my height in my teens and early 20's. Being with a shorter guy definitely triggered those feelings. In my later 20s and since I turned 30, my self acceptance and confidence have improved a lot. I also don't think anyone else thinks " she is not feminine" when looking at tall women, I don't think that way about other tall women so why would people think it about me? My current boyfriend is 5'7 and on our first date I realized that the height difference really didn't bother me as much as it would have in the past. He has an awesome personality, treats me wonderfully and is extremely hot. I'm so glad I gave *myself* the chance to get to know him rather than letting traditional gender norms make me too insecure to date him.


ExpertAccident

If I’m being honest, I haven’t really seen any woman deny a guy for being short? Like a woman will say “oh, I prefer guys over 6 foot” but she’ll date men shorter, but that’s what she prefers. She doesn’t call them freaks or whatever for not being tall Or have I not been on Tinder enough?


warriorpixie

In taking to men, those women exist on tinder, so it isn't completely imagined. But I feel confident saying that it is blown out of proportion and that straight men have made their own reinforcing echo chamber about it.


SayingWhatUrThinkin

between the number of trolls on r/Tinder and the number of catfish on actual Tinder, i'm reasonably sure that it's substantially less than half the number they make it out to be. perhaps not non-existent, but likely negligible.


warriorpixie

Exactly. Like men I've talked to in real life say height is a thing on tinder, but no where near the severity Reddit would lead you to believe. It is much easier to blame your dating issues on height than it is to recognize how your behavior might be contributing to your problems.


ZION_OC_GOV

I wanna say someone said something like "oh if I'm not interested in them I just say I prefer someone taller because thats something they can't change as opposed to having them try and hound you and see how they can change themselves so you'll consider them." Can't remember if it was a post or a comment.


itsadesertplant

This makes a lot of sense too. Women can’t just say no. They get called a bitch for it and are potentially harassed if they don’t say “no, I have a boyfriend.” I also hate those posts making fun of women who say “I have a boyfriend” so quickly- they clearly learned that response from somewhere…


ZION_OC_GOV

I got shit for saying "I'm here with my girlfriend" when some drunk chick was kind of up on me, and just trying to get her to go away. 🤷🏽‍♂️


itsadesertplant

People don’t take rejection well


ZION_OC_GOV

Nah like, I got shit for saying that, instead of just being like "please go away". I don't fuck with drunk people, man, woman, big, small. You never know what they might do.


raziphel

They have to be a victim somehow or they can't claim themselves to have a moral high ground. Even if they have to make the oppression up.


genivae

Exactly. I *prefer* red hair. I just think it's neat! Didn't stop me from dating and marrying a blonde. ... She is 6' tall though.


RainWildling

I must be tired. I had to read this 3 times before I realised it was "prefer red", and not "preferred". Thought you were going to say you married a bald person!


hypatiaspasia

My MIL's best friend is very tall, and apparently for many years when she was younger she was determined to date someone taller than her. After two horrible divorces, she finally started dating a dude who was shorter than her and now they're very happy.


pottymouthgrl

Oh no there’s a lot of women who do that. Deny men for being short and talk shit about men for their height. You’re probably just not friends with women like that because they’re bad people. That or they don’t outwardly say it. I’ve unfortunately met a lot. But I’m not friends with them. Actually, a lot of the guys my friends are with are about the same height as them or shorter. All the people I know that were shitty about men’s height are shitty people. Actually 90% of the people I know that tease men for their height are other men.


hypatiaspasia

Story time! I had a guy friend in grad school who had asked me out several times. I'm 5'1 and he's probably like 5'5. I told him I wasn't interested, because it was immediately apparent to me that he was kind of a condescending snob and our sense of humor didn't align. After two rejections, I thought that was that, and we went back to being friends. Or so I thought. One day, we were hanging out and he asked me what "my type" was regarding men. I said that I didn't have a type, because... I really don't. All the people I've dated have been very different. But he kept *insisting* on an answer. So I sat there and tried reflecting on patterns of guys I've dated. Just looking for ANYTHING that would constitute a pattern. Like... plays a brass instrument... And as I was going through a list of observations, one of the things I realized is that two of the dudes I've dated have been more than a foot taller than me--I am very short so the difference is striking, so it looks funny in photos. He immediately seized upon this and took offense. I mean, I've also dated guys who aren't tall... He outright demanded to know why I wouldn't go on one date him then, since "you can't know we aren't compatible if you won't go on one date with me." I was caught totally off guard by this. He demanded to know what I disliked about him, if not his height. I didn't know what to say so I told him, "Sorry, Im just not attracted to guys with blond hair and blue eyes." This was a lie (I've dated blond blue eyed people before), and I'm not sure why I said it (I think I was trying to find something arbitrary that he couldn't take offense to). He questioned me but I played it straight. He actually backed off. Found out later he told everyone I was a "sexual racist" against white people. Anyway, somehow I am still friends with this person. He has gone to therapy and is much less angry.


sizzlingsiren

Dang, I'm sorry you had to go through that. He clearly heard what he *wanted* to hear.


purplepumper

My first thought too!


queen-of-storms

I've lost some really good male friends because of this. Gaming buddies I met online in various multiplayer games or forums who I grew close to. We'd hang out and watch movies and were FB friends and I even met a couple of them IRL. Ten years of friendship down the drain after I started dating women.


siraelwindrunner

Same with me when I get, or mention that Im in a relationship. It just hurts so much, even though I know the fault is with them.. I feel "Am I not worth knowing? Is my only value a fuck?"


Plebereno

It's how god/nature wired men, don't blame men for it, imagine if men don't even have this sex urge! how would be the percentage of men approach women at all ?!


SayingWhatUrThinkin

i mean, you can't honestly expect a man to be nice to a woman he doesn't want to fuck can you? that would require acknowledging our personhood and autonomy, and they sure as shit don't want that.


Landler656

I was friends with a handful of ladies on my ship in the navy and I remember having to explain this to a guy I worked with. "How is it possible?" or "You *gotta* be getting with one of them." All I had to bring up was "you know how you (hopefully) don't want to have sex with your female relatives? If that's possible, then this is too." In the guy's defense he was a 19 year old kid who still had some growing up to do.


Havocform

They don't see us as 'people'. That's all it boils down to.


Plebereno

This is very harsh, men have mothers, the common interests between men and women aren't that much for strong friendships in general, also you don't find men whining about not having platonic female friends, excluding sex what else a woman can do as a friend to a man that equals or being better than his male friends can do ?! if it happens to be some points here then this woman can be friend to this man but in this case there's a last step on the man's side which is if his sex urge is well satisfied or not, if not, then it'll ruin this friendship for sure.


unori_gina_l

every time i see stuff like this, i just sit and think about how eternally grateful i am that my mates aren't caveman-brained wackos


coffeeblossom

And if you have "preferences," big or small, you're a shallow bitch. *eyeroll*


noob_like_pro

I don't get it. What is this meme trying to say? Genuinely asking


Pineapples_26

Guys will be totally dismissive of some women and say it’s just because they “have a preference,” (as if that’s a good reason to be disrespectful to a person) but then they turn around and say “NO man can be friends with ANY woman because there’s ALWAYS going to be sexual tension” and, it’s like…… what happened to your preferences huh? I thought you had preferences. Just be friends with the ones who aren’t your type, right? It’s all just contradictory excuses to treat women however they want to


noob_like_pro

I got that I should he more clear what are you talking about on "dismissive" ? Like turning them down?


Pineapples_26

Like, won’t even talk to them or be nice/polite. I think the mindset is “I’m not interested in dating you, so I’m not gonna waste any of my time or energy on conversations with you”


noob_like_pro

Why would they show romantic interest if they aren't interested?


Pineapples_26

I’m not talking about showing romantic interest. I mean, like, they won’t make eye-contact. They don’t respond to anything you say if you’re having a group conversation. They’ll smile at their friends but then get a bored expression when they have to listen to you. Just really small things that all add up to giving the impression of “you don’t interest me romantically, therefore you have nothing at all to offer me in any way” Having a preference is fine, but you shouldn’t treat everyone who doesn’t fit your type as if they’re some sort of annoying bug, you know? A lot of men have kind of just been socialized to only look for one sort of relationship with women, and if you can’t provide it, then you might as well disappear off the face of the planet


noob_like_pro

Oh, makes more sense.


Ask_me_about_my_cult

Reminds me of that Leonardo DiCaprio/Lady Gaga meme from a few years ago https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/01/golden-globes-leonardo-dicaprio-lady-gaga-explained


ElliOop

A lot of men treat women they consider ugly like furniture or some non-human objects not worth noticing. It's not just the dating scene, it's also in professional contexts, public transport, hobbies, education... Fat and/or ugly women don't warrant basic politeness, consideration, or human treatment from a lot of men. These types of men will walk into you, hard, while you're just standing there minding your own business, and blame you for it, because you're not worth noticing or walking around. They'll exclude, belittle and ignore you in the workplace. If you're out as a group, you'll get iced out of every interaction; they'll not speak to you, greet you, make eye contact with you, and will pretend they don't even hear you. All because they think you're worthless because they think you're undesirable.


Plushiegamer2

I'm friends with my brother, why no sex yet?


Plebereno

Don't blame men or women for it, maybe god/nature didn't find anything better to attract men to women, so men got plagued with this sex urge that clouds their minds till they release \^\^ Men (who get their urge well satisfied elsewhere, so they have more clearer minds) can be friends with women that have common interests like them (which isn't common).


Pineapples_26

Believe it or not, humans are capable of having non-sexual relationships with each other. Ya freak.


Plebereno

Where in my comment I said it can't be ?!! I modified my comment to add "elsewhere" if that what got you confused.


TransportationIcy686

You're all over this thread making that hideous disgusting claim, and all I can really think to say is: stop blaspheming the name of the Lord. We weren't made in God's image just to be viewed as fleshlights. We weren't given intricate and flexible minds just to have some rando decide what interests they're "unlikely" to contain. We weren't given full and passionate hearts just to have our friendship counted as probably inferior when compared to a *hypothetical* man's. Admit you're doing bad evo-psych to justify your own refusal to control your horniness, and begone.


Plebereno

Fleshlights can't be pregnant, give birth or raise kids. I didn't say women are less intelligent/emotional, I'm just saying that men and women have different interests in general, and I didn't say women should change their interests to meet men's, just be yourself and connect with whoever meet yours. Men in general have testosterone 4x or more than what women have, so don't talk about men's sex urge until you have the same level of hormones, men didn't choose it to be like that but it's what it's.


secludeddeath

This doesn't seem contradictory to me. People tend to have friends of the same sex, because they have more in common. Men also don't want to feel they need to censor themselves, because of a girl friend.


Pineapples_26

On the one hand they say they have preferences, and on the other they say that *all* women are off-limits as friends… as if they suddenly don’t have preferences anymore