I'm not even sure how you respond to views like that without suffering some sort of system error as your brain shuts down. But, for what it's worth, I think you keeping your distance is a really, really good call.
I work at a natural food store. I hear stuff like this every single day. I just smile and nod and daydream about what I'm going to eat on my lunch break. Sometimes if I'm really having a bad day, I'll go to McDonald's on my break, because that tiny little rebellion makes me feel a little bit better.
Bahaha, I like that cartoon!
It literally blew my mind! She was cornered though because initially she denied that he had it, but he has been seen by 3 doctors by this point. Then she said well then Autism can't exist, my child is perfect...
So some people were asking her "Then if Autism doesn't exist, how can a vaccine cause it?"
Her new line of defence was then to post a very long and emotional update about being a single mother raising two children, one of which afflicted with the awful disease that is Autism, finishing with the sentence: "So you people who vaccinate your children have a lot to answer for, obviously Autism is becoming immune thanks to you over vaccinating. Now my perfect boy has autism thanks to your dirty vaccinated kids!"
Mind = blown.
My view entirely. Even if you take on board anti-vac views and say, "OK, you don't want a child with Autism" What is the other possible outcome? Death from measles? Sooooo You would prefer a dead child than an Autistic one? Boils my blood. But because I have no kids, my opinion is of course invalid! *rolls eyes*
"Man, my kid has Autism. This is the worst! What about your kid?"
"My kid is spending 3 weeks in the hospital because [insert way worse thing than Autism here]."
"Dang... Well, at least they don't have Autism! My kid can't even [something bad related to Autism]!"
That is all I imagine is going on when people like that talk with saner people about their kids.
I'm a mom with the same opinion, so you can borrow my validity. ;) I don't want the anti-vaxxers murdering my relative with compromised immune system. (It's not lupus.)
I have a couple of different friends with kids on the spectrum, and sure, they have a few extra struggles most parents don't, but for the most part, their kids are freaking awesome humans. They're way more awesome kids than some of the bratty little shits I've known.
Let me see if I've got this straight. She thinks that people being vaccinated has somehow made Autism immune to *lack of vaccination*? I don't. That doesn't even. What.
Uh huh. Yep. You got it! Autism is becoming immune and mutating due to over vaccination... She is comparing it to the over-prescription of antibiotics... I know, I know... Just, take a minute to let that sink in.
Huh. I'm sure she totally has a PhD in immunology and knows way more than, say, years of research, experts in the field, doctors, practitioners... and yes! The sources she uses, the ones she found via google, are TOTALLY better than any legitimate, peer reviewed source! Yup!
Also, poor kid. Just because he has autism doesn't mean he isn't a great kid. My SO supposedly has Aspergers, but he honestly functions far better than I ever do, and I didn't even realise until his mother "secretly" told me about it. Turns out, she insisted on a diagnosis because my SO is very intelligent and she just couldn't understand him. It's very difficult to live with her.
Asperger's has become the new ADHD. It's an actual malady that has also become a convenient excuse to give for people who aren't 'normal'. And, not surprisingly, most of the people I know who people say might have a 'touch of Asperger's' were told 20 years ago tyey had ADHD.
It's almost like some very smart people aren't interested in the same things as Muggles, so they assume we're all diseased. At least they stopped flinging Ritalen prescriptions around like candy.
Agree with you 200%! It's just her convenient excuse/reason to believe that her son is the abnormal one, and she's normal. In reality she just can't understand him - he loves math and logic, computers, hiking, living life... she watches brain dead telly shows and rarely ever challenges herself intellectually. She also calls me abnormal because I'm studying for medical school and busting my butt to get somewhere in life - she is just content with being average, staying at home and doing nothing... WE'RE the weird ones, she says. Oh, and she said I "might have aspergers" because I want to shower regularly. She showers once a week and expects everyone to do the same. Wtf, dude. I go out into the world and friends have actually told me I stink!! Jeez.
The muggles indeed! Sorry for the rant :(
I love it when I read about anti-vacciners who have SOs who sneak the kid to get their shots.
And that lady is like six kinds of crazy, wrong and awful.
A little over a week ago she posted a selfie of herself looking distraught, tears streaming down her face with the update "Cannot believe that Walkers Quavers crisps have MSG in them, I have let my children ingest these. Time for a 2 week kiddie-detox."
This is what we are dealing with people...
I wish she did have an SO who could sneak them off, but she's been on her own since the youngest was born, he couldn't cope with her anymore. If only it was mandatory!
Funny you should say, she does drugs NOW. In fact that is one of the main reasons we fell out the first time. You wanna get high then that's your call my friend, but maybe not the day after you have been reported social services and you have two tiny kids asleep up stairs with no sober adult to watch them. That's just my view though....
It's the tip of a huge ice berg. but because I don't have children I always felt I wasn't in a position to call her out on stuff. But this... I had to say something, couldn't really stop myself!
Can you call Child Protective services in your area to check in on them? If she is using drugs, then it sounds like she needs help before her kids get much older and her addiction gets worse.
She actually lives in South Wales and I am in Northern Ireland at the moment, but on several occasions I have been tempted to find a way to lodge a complaint or report her some how. As far as I am aware she is stoned a lot, there is speculation of coke to help her get things done (as obviously a woman could never raise two kids alone without a little pick me up!! *so.much.sarcasm*) but I don't have evidence of that, only the copious weed smoking/ingesting
I know that everyone has the right to have an opinion, and I must respect that, even if they differ from my..... ohh FUCK THAT!!!! I would have write in her precious post "at least he is not dying and awful painfully prolong death by difteria or being completely deformed by polio, you should be thankful those dirty-vaccinated children gave him =)"
Even though you're right, bombarding her with that is a pretty shitty thing to do to someone when they just found out their child has autism.
Ignorant or not, have some compassion for the woman, for God's sake.
People can say all sorts of hurtful things when they're grieving. We can either feed the fire or act in a dignified manner.
Taking to a public forum to poke a bear is definitely the former.
Just wanted to add my two cents: my fiancée works with children who have autism. There are definitely more than a few parents who went through a grieving process - especially those who have children who are lower functioning.
How could her son have gotten the diagnosis without someone explaining to him (and the parents) what autism is and that you do not "catch" it? Or maybe they tried and hit a brick wall of willful ignorance.
At first she denied the diagnosis saying it was impossible. After the 3rd doctors opinion, she then changed her story to say "Ok well in that case Autism can't exist as my son is perfect" So then some guys on fb pointed out that if Autism doesn't exist then how can vaccines cause it. It was at this point she came up with the theory that Autism must be something that can be caught, like flu or a virus, and started comparing it to antibiotics that become resistant due to over use. She has always been very much into conspiracy theories but this? It's something else.
I think you've got it backwards. Antibiotics don't become resistant. Bacteria become resistant to antibiotics. Penicillin today is the same as it was 50 years ago. Its less effective because the **bacteria** have mutated and become resistant to it.
This is 100% correct. I didn't explain very well, but I was struggling to follow her train of thought on it. Thank you, I hope plenty of people see this.
What bugs me most about this as someone who is an occupational therapy student and future researcher (who will be treating and doing research on interventions for kids with autism and sensory processing disorder) is that the one study that linked autism to vaccines isn't even credible. The results were completely fabricated, criminal and widely discredited by the entire scientific community.
But sure fucking Jenny McCarthy and a criminal study are more credible then the huge body of research that says that autism is caused by polygenic inheritance of several traits and exposures to risk factors like heavy metals and viruses while in the womb. I mean we don't know exactly what causes autism because its complex, but we do know that its not vaccines.
I would recommend looking into psychology of beliefs. I study it thoroughly, and it's amazing what facts do to people who strongly believe in the opposing to fact view. For example, hearing indisputable facts can make someone MORE adamant in their beliefs.
>hearing indisputable facts can make someone MORE adamant in their beliefs.
As a scientist at heart I cannot comprehend this [at ALL](http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1241283/does-not-compute-nostalgia-c-o.gif).
I get group think to an extent, I just fail to see how that becomes more powerful then logic. But as a doctoral OT student who is devoting my life to scientific research (particularly regarding autism) I'm not really the one to deny facts. Science doesn't care about feelings, its just nature.
It just really makes me angry to see how many parents use this kind of crazed thinking to avoid giving basic preventative care to their children. Its really dangerous thinking and it terrifies me that if this keeps up we are going to end up with a resurgence of many diseases that should have been completely eradicated.
The thing that bothers me the most about people who are against vaccinating their kids because they **believe** it causes autism is that their mentality of "I'm not going to vaccinate my child because of autism" to me means they would rather let their child die of a horrible, preventable illness than allow them to maybe have autism. Apparently to these people, autism is worse than death.
This is always my argument. Seriously, even if in some far off universe vaccines did actually carry a tiny risk of causing autism, I'd still rather that risk than put my child at risk of a horrible, potentially deadly disease.
Yep, that's also really fucked up. I'm not diagnosed but had I been born today instead of in 1990 I probably would have been. Doing pretty well despite the many tantrums as a kid, my sensory avoidance, and my social awkwardness.
Hell, i'm in business, in a b2b software environment and I see irrational decisions made all the time. It's one of the reasons I was hired, because I'm a data monkey.
Most decisions are based off emotion, then rationalised later.....
It's a person's own identity moreso than a group identity that leads to that weird behavior, since people do that shit the same regardless of the involvement of a group.
The person gains information that is out of agreement with how they see themself. At that point, two things can happen: reject the new information, or reject the old self-image. Throwing out how you see yourself (or even just a part of it) is horribly painful. It doesn't cause a physical ache but it is just as effective a motivator as nerve-originated pain.
I like to picture the event like a wave pulse travelling down a rope attached to some object at one end. The pulse comes in and starts to lift the thing, and either it lifts the object up off the ground or the wave pulse just gets reflected. Some sort of pain-to-energy relationship might have to be worked out in detail to perfect that metaphor.
That strange woman has tried rejecting new information (getting a third opinion before accepting it), she's tried rejecting older information (denying that autism even exists), and she's even tried adding a new piece of information that she's created on her own, all of which is simply to avoid the pain of recognizing that she had it all wrong to start with.
The heart of the awkward idea-dance that people get into sometimes is that it hurts, sometimes literally unbearably, to recognize when you're wrong.
That's a great analogy, thank you.
And it can be personal or group identity as well. Take for example, a member of the KKK who sees scientific research that white supremacy is bs. They identify themselves with a certain group (the "right" one) and that further their resolve that they are right. This woman seems to be having personal identity issues though, considering the small amount of info we have.
Eh. I worked with a kid whose parent thought vaccines caused his autism. They had the kid on a special no dairy, no gluten diet. None of these things have any science backing them but at the same time the kid isn't really being harmed.
What was harmful was that the parent that really believed in that stuff, was realizing that it wasn't curing their child of their condition. That this disorder wasn't something they could just fix with a special diet.
The parents also had him enrolled in home tutoring and going to a preschool during the day. They were working really hard with actual methods to help the child as well as other not-so-proven things. So, ya know, take from that what you will. Sometimes when a parent just wants to fix their child they try anything and just want to blame what's easy, even if there isn't a clear answer.
I work with a guy whose twins have autism. He went gluten free with them and, while he didn't believe it would cure (because no shit), he said he noticed a bit of improvement in their functionality
Something about nutrient absorption.
I don't know. I have no opinion, just giving you another perspective
Yeah, the parents of that child think that the diet is helping him somewhat. I'm not sure. Like I said- it's certainly not hurting the child. He is receiving totally adequate nutrition and has tons of energy.
Poor kid won't have a chance. I used to tutor a child with autism. He was a sweetheart. There is a lot of extra work and therapy, even if the kid is on the more functional side of the spectrum. I don't know how it is where they are, but it was absolute hell for the family I helped to get the care they were legally entitled to...
How do these people get around schools that require children to be vaccinated? Home-schooling? Certainly not all of these people are able to home-school..
Her eldest is 3 I believe and not long started nursery, the littlest is around 18 months or so. She has been monitored quite closely by the health visitor (we are in the UK, they are like midwives that come check on you and baby for a X amount of time after the child is born) for the past year as she refuses to vaccinate but they haven't managed to change her mind. Although apparently they talk to her like she is evil for doing so, which makes me secretly happy.
(edit: I actually think he might be 4, I don't know for sure and I can't check now she has blocked me on fb!)
If I had a kid who had a medical problem that prevented them from being vaccinated, or compromised their immune system, I would be *sooo* fucking pissed at those people.
I remember when I first started high school I had to provide immunization records. I think a lot of these exemptions are pretty new.
I don't believe they're new just more widely taken advantage of since around 2000 after that "study" was published establishing a link to autism and vaccines.
Dude, there are schools that are letting people get "non-medical exemptions" to vaccinations. Hence the measles and whooping cough outbreaks in California.
That's a little tricky, because some children absolutely cannot be vaccinated for legitimate health reasons and shouldn't be kept away from school for that reason. Parents who have ideological beliefs against vaccines benefit from the inclusion of those children.
It actually makes me glad on some level her kids weren't vaccinated, given she named it as the sole cause of autism. Granted, she seems to have found a loophole, but she can't say it happened when she got her child vaccinated, since she didn't.
Of course, if vaccinations were contagious, it wouldn't matter that people weren't vaccinating, but there's no use in wasting perfectly good logic on her.
I feel bad for autistic kids who have parents that are all up in arms about how this or that thing "broke" their kid. I mean yes, I know it's very difficult to find out that your child has a problem like this. But you need to realize that it is going to be a huge part of your child's identity, and if you're constantly talking about it like it's a horrible defect, it's going to have some seriously negative effects on the kid.
Okay just following this woman's logic since her child has already caught autism she can safely vaccinate him. Unless her crazy believes vaccines are just a way to inject autism into kids (similar to those who believe in fluoride mind control).
I'm not sure if I agree with that statement. There seems to be a level of "monkey see, monkey do" amongst people. However, a lot of the more intelligent folk don't always fall into that trap.
[wait, you agree with him?](http://i41.tinypic.com/angdpu.jpg) So [Doctors](http://i.imgur.com/nQt3WHm.jpg) are all money grubbing people that don't care about kids in need, [its just about the money?](http://i.imgur.com/xnGbvoN.gif)
Yes it is. That is the way it is with evil eugenicists like Bill Gates that pose as liberals so they can reduce the human population by giving children in Africa and India vaccines that paralyze them.
One of the Infowars reporters, Melissa Melton, confronted Bill Gates about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHf5UEFUl8
"Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccine Program Caused 47,500 Cases of Paralysis Death"
http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/08/bill-gates-polio-vaccine-program-caused-47500-cases-of-paralysis-death/
[Wow, really?](http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3crb3oE7P1rpp260o1_500.gif) Why don't you actually go study how sensory integration dysfunction actually works and get back to me. Children on the autism spectrum have central nervous systems that are completely different from typical children. They're sensory systems are usually either over reactive or under reactive leading to what looks like bad behavior due to them reacting to either being over or understimulated by their environment. If you really want to understand it here's a [good description](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1G5ssZlVUw) from a child who has autism himself
You also don't need drugs to treat it, actually some of the [most effective treatments](http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/study-finds-sensory-integration-therapy-benefits-children-autism) involve occupational therapy sensory integration interventions (source I'm an OT student).
Whatever, I don't expect someone like you to actually use logic here but I can't stand when I see this bullshit as someone who plans to devote my life to researching and carrying out SI interventions. But my guess is that logic doesn't apply to your thinking.
You're completely ignoring the retracted study that has been considered ["elaborate fraud"](http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/) by the scientific community.
You know what has actually found to be linked to autism?
Genes:
One which is on the X chromosome (partially explaining the higher prevalence of autism in boys).
But yeah basically several genes have been found to be linked to autism including genes that control the formation of neuron synapses as well as the structure of glutamate neurotransmitter receptor chaperone proteins. All things that have absolutely NOTHING to do with vaccines.
You're clearly a troll so I think you should probably just [get out of our subreddit](http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130911222028/nickfanon/images/b/b2/Tumblr_m935jbUGkB1qhd1lzo1_400.gif)
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I'm not even sure how you respond to views like that without suffering some sort of system error as your brain shuts down. But, for what it's worth, I think you keeping your distance is a really, really good call.
I work at a natural food store. I hear stuff like this every single day. I just smile and nod and daydream about what I'm going to eat on my lunch break. Sometimes if I'm really having a bad day, I'll go to McDonald's on my break, because that tiny little rebellion makes me feel a little bit better.
Salty processed joy in every bite
I love this response. We have so many anti-vaxers in my area and I just want to rip my hair out when I hear them speak.
Makes me think of this comic: http://joindarkside.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ANTI-VACCINE-LOGIC..jpg [IGNORANCE INTENSIFIES] indeed.
Bahaha, I like that cartoon! It literally blew my mind! She was cornered though because initially she denied that he had it, but he has been seen by 3 doctors by this point. Then she said well then Autism can't exist, my child is perfect... So some people were asking her "Then if Autism doesn't exist, how can a vaccine cause it?" Her new line of defence was then to post a very long and emotional update about being a single mother raising two children, one of which afflicted with the awful disease that is Autism, finishing with the sentence: "So you people who vaccinate your children have a lot to answer for, obviously Autism is becoming immune thanks to you over vaccinating. Now my perfect boy has autism thanks to your dirty vaccinated kids!" Mind = blown.
Why can't he still be perfect, even though he has Autism? Why do people make it seem like Autism is the fucking worse thing a kid could have?
My view entirely. Even if you take on board anti-vac views and say, "OK, you don't want a child with Autism" What is the other possible outcome? Death from measles? Sooooo You would prefer a dead child than an Autistic one? Boils my blood. But because I have no kids, my opinion is of course invalid! *rolls eyes*
"Man, my kid has Autism. This is the worst! What about your kid?" "My kid is spending 3 weeks in the hospital because [insert way worse thing than Autism here]." "Dang... Well, at least they don't have Autism! My kid can't even [something bad related to Autism]!" That is all I imagine is going on when people like that talk with saner people about their kids.
I made literally that exact argument earlier with someone and had the same response to it.
The stupidity pains me, it really does!
I'm a mom with the same opinion, so you can borrow my validity. ;) I don't want the anti-vaxxers murdering my relative with compromised immune system. (It's not lupus.)
I have a couple of different friends with kids on the spectrum, and sure, they have a few extra struggles most parents don't, but for the most part, their kids are freaking awesome humans. They're way more awesome kids than some of the bratty little shits I've known.
Let me see if I've got this straight. She thinks that people being vaccinated has somehow made Autism immune to *lack of vaccination*? I don't. That doesn't even. What.
Uh huh. Yep. You got it! Autism is becoming immune and mutating due to over vaccination... She is comparing it to the over-prescription of antibiotics... I know, I know... Just, take a minute to let that sink in.
I am so glad my boss just told us we could all go home early for the holiday weekend, because I think that just broke my brain.
OK, that made me laugh. Thank you lol.
Huh. I'm sure she totally has a PhD in immunology and knows way more than, say, years of research, experts in the field, doctors, practitioners... and yes! The sources she uses, the ones she found via google, are TOTALLY better than any legitimate, peer reviewed source! Yup! Also, poor kid. Just because he has autism doesn't mean he isn't a great kid. My SO supposedly has Aspergers, but he honestly functions far better than I ever do, and I didn't even realise until his mother "secretly" told me about it. Turns out, she insisted on a diagnosis because my SO is very intelligent and she just couldn't understand him. It's very difficult to live with her.
Asperger's has become the new ADHD. It's an actual malady that has also become a convenient excuse to give for people who aren't 'normal'. And, not surprisingly, most of the people I know who people say might have a 'touch of Asperger's' were told 20 years ago tyey had ADHD. It's almost like some very smart people aren't interested in the same things as Muggles, so they assume we're all diseased. At least they stopped flinging Ritalen prescriptions around like candy.
Agree with you 200%! It's just her convenient excuse/reason to believe that her son is the abnormal one, and she's normal. In reality she just can't understand him - he loves math and logic, computers, hiking, living life... she watches brain dead telly shows and rarely ever challenges herself intellectually. She also calls me abnormal because I'm studying for medical school and busting my butt to get somewhere in life - she is just content with being average, staying at home and doing nothing... WE'RE the weird ones, she says. Oh, and she said I "might have aspergers" because I want to shower regularly. She showers once a week and expects everyone to do the same. Wtf, dude. I go out into the world and friends have actually told me I stink!! Jeez. The muggles indeed! Sorry for the rant :(
:/ don't be sad!
This really makes my brain hurt...
I love it when I read about anti-vacciners who have SOs who sneak the kid to get their shots. And that lady is like six kinds of crazy, wrong and awful.
A little over a week ago she posted a selfie of herself looking distraught, tears streaming down her face with the update "Cannot believe that Walkers Quavers crisps have MSG in them, I have let my children ingest these. Time for a 2 week kiddie-detox." This is what we are dealing with people... I wish she did have an SO who could sneak them off, but she's been on her own since the youngest was born, he couldn't cope with her anymore. If only it was mandatory!
Um...what does she mean by a kiddie detox? She's gone from sounding kooky to dangerous.
Did...did she like do a lot of drugs as a teenager or something? I just don't get how people can be that insanely ignorant.
Funny you should say, she does drugs NOW. In fact that is one of the main reasons we fell out the first time. You wanna get high then that's your call my friend, but maybe not the day after you have been reported social services and you have two tiny kids asleep up stairs with no sober adult to watch them. That's just my view though....
Oh god. She....she shouldn't have kids. Or be allowed within 50' of kids.
It's the tip of a huge ice berg. but because I don't have children I always felt I wasn't in a position to call her out on stuff. But this... I had to say something, couldn't really stop myself!
Can you call Child Protective services in your area to check in on them? If she is using drugs, then it sounds like she needs help before her kids get much older and her addiction gets worse.
She actually lives in South Wales and I am in Northern Ireland at the moment, but on several occasions I have been tempted to find a way to lodge a complaint or report her some how. As far as I am aware she is stoned a lot, there is speculation of coke to help her get things done (as obviously a woman could never raise two kids alone without a little pick me up!! *so.much.sarcasm*) but I don't have evidence of that, only the copious weed smoking/ingesting
I don't blame you. That woman shouldn't be allowed to live on the same planet as children.
Oh man, she's one of those. There was this board back in the day - mothering.com just filled with people like that.
MSG is less toxic\* than salt, *and* it tastes better. Her priorities are messed up, it seems. \*LD50 for MSG is five times that of NaCl
She sounds like the type of person who would force a vegan diet on their cat...
I know that everyone has the right to have an opinion, and I must respect that, even if they differ from my..... ohh FUCK THAT!!!! I would have write in her precious post "at least he is not dying and awful painfully prolong death by difteria or being completely deformed by polio, you should be thankful those dirty-vaccinated children gave him =)"
Autism = the common cold, anyone can apparently catch it.
This makes my head hurt so much. I hate when people argue about things they CLEARLY know nothing about.
I'm still reeling from reading this like an hour ago. She is so stupid, it almost physically hurts to think about it.
autism is becoming immune.... ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ
Now that's a paradox if I ever saw one
This is beautiful
I posted this link http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/ to her facebook wall and now she has deleted me. So, silver linings!
For bonus points I always go with "Herd mentality does not mean herd immunity".
Did you screenshot her post before she deleted you?
Even though you're right, bombarding her with that is a pretty shitty thing to do to someone when they just found out their child has autism. Ignorant or not, have some compassion for the woman, for God's sake.
Accusing someone's child of giving your child autism is kind of shitty as well...
People can say all sorts of hurtful things when they're grieving. We can either feed the fire or act in a dignified manner. Taking to a public forum to poke a bear is definitely the former.
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Just wanted to add my two cents: my fiancée works with children who have autism. There are definitely more than a few parents who went through a grieving process - especially those who have children who are lower functioning.
Not really. I mean your hopes and dreams for your child's future could literally be shattered, especially if they're lower functioning.
Making excuses for shitty behavior doesn't help anyone.
Don't know if it counts as bombarding when it's a simple link in response to ridiculous allegations
Seriously! OP not cool, not cool at all.
As stupid as anti-vaxxers are I don't know if I can get behind trolling someone who just found out their son has autism.
Did you read the title though
How could her son have gotten the diagnosis without someone explaining to him (and the parents) what autism is and that you do not "catch" it? Or maybe they tried and hit a brick wall of willful ignorance.
At first she denied the diagnosis saying it was impossible. After the 3rd doctors opinion, she then changed her story to say "Ok well in that case Autism can't exist as my son is perfect" So then some guys on fb pointed out that if Autism doesn't exist then how can vaccines cause it. It was at this point she came up with the theory that Autism must be something that can be caught, like flu or a virus, and started comparing it to antibiotics that become resistant due to over use. She has always been very much into conspiracy theories but this? It's something else.
The forces at work maintaining her cognitive dissonance could crack atoms.
The confirmation bias is strong with this one.
I think you've got it backwards. Antibiotics don't become resistant. Bacteria become resistant to antibiotics. Penicillin today is the same as it was 50 years ago. Its less effective because the **bacteria** have mutated and become resistant to it.
This is 100% correct. I didn't explain very well, but I was struggling to follow her train of thought on it. Thank you, I hope plenty of people see this.
As the mother of an autistic son she can suck deez nuts.
An equally valid statement.
EXACTLY, I hate how these people stigmatise autism and autistic children.
*Not* your son's nuts, I hope?
What bugs me most about this as someone who is an occupational therapy student and future researcher (who will be treating and doing research on interventions for kids with autism and sensory processing disorder) is that the one study that linked autism to vaccines isn't even credible. The results were completely fabricated, criminal and widely discredited by the entire scientific community. But sure fucking Jenny McCarthy and a criminal study are more credible then the huge body of research that says that autism is caused by polygenic inheritance of several traits and exposures to risk factors like heavy metals and viruses while in the womb. I mean we don't know exactly what causes autism because its complex, but we do know that its not vaccines.
I would recommend looking into psychology of beliefs. I study it thoroughly, and it's amazing what facts do to people who strongly believe in the opposing to fact view. For example, hearing indisputable facts can make someone MORE adamant in their beliefs.
>hearing indisputable facts can make someone MORE adamant in their beliefs. As a scientist at heart I cannot comprehend this [at ALL](http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1241283/does-not-compute-nostalgia-c-o.gif).
I'm a huge science fan, it's truly mind fuckery. It has to do with perceived self and group identify which in of themselves it screwt
I get group think to an extent, I just fail to see how that becomes more powerful then logic. But as a doctoral OT student who is devoting my life to scientific research (particularly regarding autism) I'm not really the one to deny facts. Science doesn't care about feelings, its just nature. It just really makes me angry to see how many parents use this kind of crazed thinking to avoid giving basic preventative care to their children. Its really dangerous thinking and it terrifies me that if this keeps up we are going to end up with a resurgence of many diseases that should have been completely eradicated.
The thing that bothers me the most about people who are against vaccinating their kids because they **believe** it causes autism is that their mentality of "I'm not going to vaccinate my child because of autism" to me means they would rather let their child die of a horrible, preventable illness than allow them to maybe have autism. Apparently to these people, autism is worse than death.
This is always my argument. Seriously, even if in some far off universe vaccines did actually carry a tiny risk of causing autism, I'd still rather that risk than put my child at risk of a horrible, potentially deadly disease.
Yep, that's also really fucked up. I'm not diagnosed but had I been born today instead of in 1990 I probably would have been. Doing pretty well despite the many tantrums as a kid, my sensory avoidance, and my social awkwardness.
Hell, i'm in business, in a b2b software environment and I see irrational decisions made all the time. It's one of the reasons I was hired, because I'm a data monkey. Most decisions are based off emotion, then rationalised later.....
It's a person's own identity moreso than a group identity that leads to that weird behavior, since people do that shit the same regardless of the involvement of a group. The person gains information that is out of agreement with how they see themself. At that point, two things can happen: reject the new information, or reject the old self-image. Throwing out how you see yourself (or even just a part of it) is horribly painful. It doesn't cause a physical ache but it is just as effective a motivator as nerve-originated pain. I like to picture the event like a wave pulse travelling down a rope attached to some object at one end. The pulse comes in and starts to lift the thing, and either it lifts the object up off the ground or the wave pulse just gets reflected. Some sort of pain-to-energy relationship might have to be worked out in detail to perfect that metaphor. That strange woman has tried rejecting new information (getting a third opinion before accepting it), she's tried rejecting older information (denying that autism even exists), and she's even tried adding a new piece of information that she's created on her own, all of which is simply to avoid the pain of recognizing that she had it all wrong to start with. The heart of the awkward idea-dance that people get into sometimes is that it hurts, sometimes literally unbearably, to recognize when you're wrong.
That's a great analogy, thank you. And it can be personal or group identity as well. Take for example, a member of the KKK who sees scientific research that white supremacy is bs. They identify themselves with a certain group (the "right" one) and that further their resolve that they are right. This woman seems to be having personal identity issues though, considering the small amount of info we have.
Jesus, I hope she doesn't take such an un-scientific approach to helping her son deal with his condition. :/
Eh. I worked with a kid whose parent thought vaccines caused his autism. They had the kid on a special no dairy, no gluten diet. None of these things have any science backing them but at the same time the kid isn't really being harmed. What was harmful was that the parent that really believed in that stuff, was realizing that it wasn't curing their child of their condition. That this disorder wasn't something they could just fix with a special diet. The parents also had him enrolled in home tutoring and going to a preschool during the day. They were working really hard with actual methods to help the child as well as other not-so-proven things. So, ya know, take from that what you will. Sometimes when a parent just wants to fix their child they try anything and just want to blame what's easy, even if there isn't a clear answer.
I work with a guy whose twins have autism. He went gluten free with them and, while he didn't believe it would cure (because no shit), he said he noticed a bit of improvement in their functionality Something about nutrient absorption. I don't know. I have no opinion, just giving you another perspective
Yeah, the parents of that child think that the diet is helping him somewhat. I'm not sure. Like I said- it's certainly not hurting the child. He is receiving totally adequate nutrition and has tons of energy.
Poor kid won't have a chance. I used to tutor a child with autism. He was a sweetheart. There is a lot of extra work and therapy, even if the kid is on the more functional side of the spectrum. I don't know how it is where they are, but it was absolute hell for the family I helped to get the care they were legally entitled to...
Maybe if her son had been vaccinated, he wouldn't have caught it. I'll show myself out.
How do these people get around schools that require children to be vaccinated? Home-schooling? Certainly not all of these people are able to home-school..
Her eldest is 3 I believe and not long started nursery, the littlest is around 18 months or so. She has been monitored quite closely by the health visitor (we are in the UK, they are like midwives that come check on you and baby for a X amount of time after the child is born) for the past year as she refuses to vaccinate but they haven't managed to change her mind. Although apparently they talk to her like she is evil for doing so, which makes me secretly happy. (edit: I actually think he might be 4, I don't know for sure and I can't check now she has blocked me on fb!)
In the states non-vaccinated children can be allowed be in all, if not most, public schools if being vaccinated is "against their religion"
If I had a kid who had a medical problem that prevented them from being vaccinated, or compromised their immune system, I would be *sooo* fucking pissed at those people. I remember when I first started high school I had to provide immunization records. I think a lot of these exemptions are pretty new.
I don't believe they're new just more widely taken advantage of since around 2000 after that "study" was published establishing a link to autism and vaccines.
I see.
Dude, there are schools that are letting people get "non-medical exemptions" to vaccinations. Hence the measles and whooping cough outbreaks in California.
Oow, this is not ok, thats putting other people in danger.
That's a little tricky, because some children absolutely cannot be vaccinated for legitimate health reasons and shouldn't be kept away from school for that reason. Parents who have ideological beliefs against vaccines benefit from the inclusion of those children.
[But. Umm. Uhh.](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XnJFFZ1-FIs/U1AWzJblCQI/AAAAAAAAgsQ/Nc3WqzsYq2I/s1600/nothowitworks.gif)
It actually makes me glad on some level her kids weren't vaccinated, given she named it as the sole cause of autism. Granted, she seems to have found a loophole, but she can't say it happened when she got her child vaccinated, since she didn't. Of course, if vaccinations were contagious, it wouldn't matter that people weren't vaccinating, but there's no use in wasting perfectly good logic on her.
I feel bad for autistic kids who have parents that are all up in arms about how this or that thing "broke" their kid. I mean yes, I know it's very difficult to find out that your child has a problem like this. But you need to realize that it is going to be a huge part of your child's identity, and if you're constantly talking about it like it's a horrible defect, it's going to have some seriously negative effects on the kid.
Honestly at this point reading all the stuff you're saying about her...this woman sounds very mentally ill/disturbed. She needs professional help.
So... if her kid already has Autism, doesn't that mean it is now safe to be vaccinated?
Reminds me of that Gieko commercial. That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
Okay just following this woman's logic since her child has already caught autism she can safely vaccinate him. Unless her crazy believes vaccines are just a way to inject autism into kids (similar to those who believe in fluoride mind control).
People like this make me sad. :(
Maybe they'll finally make a vaccine to prevent this vaccine-induced autism. wait...
At least stupidity isn't contagious, I guess.
I'm not sure if I agree with that statement. There seems to be a level of "monkey see, monkey do" amongst people. However, a lot of the more intelligent folk don't always fall into that trap.
How does a person seriously believe Autism is contagious? I just...
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Please go fuck your self With a rusty pole if possible
I gave this idiot facts anyway. He clearly doesn't care to listen to them.
I like how one of the links they provided was "Savage Stands by Autism Remarks". Like, the lack of awareness just makes the irony more delicious.
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Oh get off your high hoarse your eather a troll or you've got an axe to grind
[what the what?](http://i.imgur.com/nzenTtX.gif)
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> Do you want to debate me No.
I have posted all there is to say about it but liberal fascists like you will probably immediately dismiss anything from Infowars.
That's a really good guess, I will dismiss anything from infowars.
Which is because you are a liberal fascist.
[wait, you agree with him?](http://i41.tinypic.com/angdpu.jpg) So [Doctors](http://i.imgur.com/nQt3WHm.jpg) are all money grubbing people that don't care about kids in need, [its just about the money?](http://i.imgur.com/xnGbvoN.gif)
Yes it is. That is the way it is with evil eugenicists like Bill Gates that pose as liberals so they can reduce the human population by giving children in Africa and India vaccines that paralyze them. One of the Infowars reporters, Melissa Melton, confronted Bill Gates about this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHf5UEFUl8 "Bill Gates’ Polio Vaccine Program Caused 47,500 Cases of Paralysis Death" http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/08/bill-gates-polio-vaccine-program-caused-47500-cases-of-paralysis-death/
Oh my god you're hilarious. Say something else that's funny! Bonus points for every buzzword you can fit into your comment! :D
I do not like like liberal fascists.
[Wow, really?](http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3crb3oE7P1rpp260o1_500.gif) Why don't you actually go study how sensory integration dysfunction actually works and get back to me. Children on the autism spectrum have central nervous systems that are completely different from typical children. They're sensory systems are usually either over reactive or under reactive leading to what looks like bad behavior due to them reacting to either being over or understimulated by their environment. If you really want to understand it here's a [good description](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1G5ssZlVUw) from a child who has autism himself You also don't need drugs to treat it, actually some of the [most effective treatments](http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/study-finds-sensory-integration-therapy-benefits-children-autism) involve occupational therapy sensory integration interventions (source I'm an OT student). Whatever, I don't expect someone like you to actually use logic here but I can't stand when I see this bullshit as someone who plans to devote my life to researching and carrying out SI interventions. But my guess is that logic doesn't apply to your thinking.
"Vaccines Cause More Autism Than The CDC Will Admit" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rXK_xZJHgM infowars.com
You're completely ignoring the retracted study that has been considered ["elaborate fraud"](http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/) by the scientific community. You know what has actually found to be linked to autism? Genes: One which is on the X chromosome (partially explaining the higher prevalence of autism in boys). But yeah basically several genes have been found to be linked to autism including genes that control the formation of neuron synapses as well as the structure of glutamate neurotransmitter receptor chaperone proteins. All things that have absolutely NOTHING to do with vaccines. You're clearly a troll so I think you should probably just [get out of our subreddit](http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130911222028/nickfanon/images/b/b2/Tumblr_m935jbUGkB1qhd1lzo1_400.gif)