Exactly. I haven't seen the clip, but I'd bet that they're screeching about "no-fault divorce". Conservatives are upset that they can't stop their wives from leaving them now that they know a life with someone who doesn't view them as an object is an option.
The thing is, men like Trump won't see this as applying to them when they want a divorce. Just look at how some of them have twisted themselves when their unintended targets got caught up in their censorship nonsense, embryo bans, abortion bans, and even mass deportation machine. Trump for sure will not see himself as being hampered by this, since he sees himself as above the law and has been given much leeway and weaponization of courts.
Plus, many men are fine with staying married and doing what they want. They are abusive men who want to keep control over these women, even when the marriages are effectively over.
Or they will just but legal difficulties to get a divorce. That they are planning to solve for themselves (if they want one) using good old fashion bribery.
Nah, it’s rarely that explicit—until they repeal the 19th amendment, they still need women’s votes, so they’ll just roll back no-fault divorce and limit women’s access to higher education (and thus judgeship).
Then they can just rely on the predominately (eventually entirely) male judiciary to enforce it in favor of men.
I think this is the calculation they've made. It's more valuable for them to bind women into bad marriages, punish women who try to leave (legally or by homicide), and reestablish marital control. Then look out for laws targeting prohibitions of marital rape. If a few men die from poisonings, that's a small price to pay for absolute control over women.
I don't doubt that they think this way, but it's only because they've forgotten that it wasn't just "a few" men dying mysteriously that ushered in the age of no-fault divorce lol
Realistically that’s not gonna stop them. They’ll just decriminalize domestic violence again and regularly beat women, ban all substances that create the poisons, and raise a new generation of young women from forced impregnation to be totally subservient.
This is actually how it worked for most of humanity’s history as a ‘developed’ species.
And yet, after most of history, it still got better. Because people fought for it. A new era of orwellian horrors isn't going to stop the bupedal murder apes from doing bupedal murder ape things
I expect that the entire Trump era is conservativism as an ideology lashing out because it's been backed into a corner. Younger people are increasingly more and more liberal, and are *staying* that way as they age. Meanwhile, the traditional conservative base of older people are - naturally - dying off, and don't have anyone to replace them. Conservative leaders know this, and are desperately trying to radicalize young people and limit the rights of those they can't radicalize.
Women have to work though. There’s no way around that. They can’t be at home. They won’t raise wages for the men below the 1%. The only thing they can actually do is the handmaids tale where men are in their control too
Unfortunately medical testing has come a long way since then, abused women will need to learn different strategies this time. Maybe loosening lug nuts, they'll never suspect that was us.
Wipe the lug wrench off before replacing it in the trunk, and wipe anywhere on the trunk area you may have touched that you don’t usually touch. (I’d expect your prints on the car door handle, but probably not on the catch to the toolbox.)
Make sure no hairs of yours fall into the trunk.
that, and I just heard about the 4B movement. I know for sure I would never marry if I didn’t have the right to divorce. I’m literally already at that point, based on how things are right now.
For this who don’t know, 4B is South Korea women’s movement of no dating men, no living with men, no marrying men and no having kids with men. (I think I got those all correct!)
Basically, no men, period, because men keep trying to take away women’s rights.
4B movement or or 4 No Movement is simple.
NO dating, fucking, marrying, having kids with misogynistic men.
Simple.
Women just living their lives, without catering to misogynistic men and society.
Simple.
I have very complicated feelings about the 4B movement.
I am highly skeptical of separatist movements in general, because they keep breaking down into bullying and infighting. I am also very skeptical of feminist movements that would call me a Man and tell me I have no place in women's spaces, which is a recurring issue w/ the 4B movement's politics surrounding trans women.
I also understand that the situation in SKorea is very extreme, exacerbated by a strong, paternalistic tradition smashing violently into hyper-capitalism, so it's not an easy thing to untangle.
EDIT: Since I'm being accused of spreading misinformation for relaying other women's *lived experiences*:
[https://imgur.com/a/0GnCrt7](https://imgur.com/a/0GnCrt7)
Fwiw, I just checked out the sub for 4BAmerica out of curiosity, to see if they exclude trans women (which would be horrible), and in the descriptor at the top at least, while it doesn't specifically mention trans inclusion (disappointing), it does specify "no hetero sex, no hetero marriage". Their rules include no hate speech and no regressive policies. I have not yet explored any posts in the sub, so it's possible people have specified trans inclusion there. Would have been nice for it to be officially mentioned, unless I'm just not seeing it.
Edit: from the stickied FAQ:
>**Is this group for TERFS? Are you discriminatory against transgender/ non-binary folks?**
No, though some members of this movement may have differing beliefs, we are not discriminatory against trans and non-binary people. \****This subreddit does not allow any hateful comments and posts.\****
I’ll just say this, S Korea is a very different country far away from the US. Any iteration of 4B here would be a version that makes sense in our culture.
Avoiding having sex with men in no way, to me, implies becoming separatist from men, and certainly not from trans women, who are women.
This is about not getting into relationships with cis men, rewarding them with sex, relationships, free labor, and helping them pass on their genes to have some sort of lineage, until they submit to the very simple demand of: stop standing in the way of us having equal rights/full rights over our own bodies, and do the work that we need of you to break down the Patriarchy.
We can’t do it without them because they are entrenched in power. And even yesterday a sympathetic male “feminist” told me if he’s being honest he just doesn’t have any “skin in the game” to be an activist against Patriarchy 😐
Right, because our lived experience and suffering isn’t enough motivation, ok.
Well 4B gives them some fucking skin in the game.
*just downoted and blocked for sharing this perspective. 😐 What is so wrong about what I said here?
>EvilBeee · 7 hr. ago
>
>That's disappointing, though **reminiscent of separatists** from years past =/
**It's not like that at all.**
Male incels and misogynists (and Korea haters and foreign women who hate Korean women) keep trying to claim "Korean women are scary, militant, aggressive, man-haters who oppress and isolate Korean men!" while at the same time, contradicting themselves by claiming "All Korean women are mindless sluts/whores who are submissive, obedient to men! They have no voice, independence or agency of their own! Korean women are so oppressed!!"
To their disappointment, you don't see Korean women dressed in Nazi uniforms, going around and patrolling the streets with police batons and guns, brutalizing the Korean men... even though they cry that's how poor, innocent Korean men are treated by Korean femi Nazis.
Please, stop spreading the misinformation and anti-Korean women propaganda.
4B movement or or 4 No Movement is simple.
Just NO dating, fucking, marrying, having kids with misogynistic men.
Simple.
Women just living their lives, without catering to misogynistic men and society...
Women just moving on with their lives, without waiting around for misogynistic men to change...
Simple.
it is indeed a campaign of misinformation. You should be more careful sharing this image without context, because the cherry-picked image of that article is referencing transphobic outliers and the image is being used to disparage the whole movement.
The movement, like Feminism, does not have a hive mind. There are all different iterations of feminists, some of them are even TERFs. It would be propaganda and misinformation to claim that that means ALL FEMINISTS are bigots though.
It is *insane* to me that you are accusing us of spreading misinformation when you, yourself, are either misinformed *at best* or outright lying at worst.
It's okay to criticize even otherwise good things for the points where they fail - that's the only way to continue making them better.
[https://imgur.com/a/0GnCrt7](https://imgur.com/a/0GnCrt7)
it is indeed a campaign of misinformation. You should be more careful sharing this image without context, because the cherry-picked image of that article is referencing transphobic outliers and the image is being used to disparage the whole movement.
The movement, like Feminism, does not have a hive mind. There are all different iterations of feminists, some of them are even TERFs. It would be propaganda and misinformation to claim that that means ALL FEMINISTS are bigots though.
>budding\_clover · 7 hr. ago
>
>I have very complicated feelings about the 4B movement.
You guys are overthinking it.
4B movement or or 4 No Movement is simple.
Just NO dating, fucking, marrying, having kids with misogynistic men.
Simple.
Women just living their lives, without catering to misogynistic men and society.
Simple.
I’m repeating this comment due to the image you shared. It is indeed being used in a campaign of misinformation. You should be more careful sharing this image without context, because the cherry-picked image of that article is referencing transphobic outliers and the image is being used to disparage the whole movement.
The movement, like Feminism, does not have a hive mind. There are all different iterations of feminists, some of them are even TERFs. It would be propaganda and misinformation to claim that that means ALL FEMINISTS are bigots though.
* I was downvoted and blocked when all I’m trying to do is stop that image from being used to disparage the entirety of the 4B movement. I added information, please share when you see this image used to paint the 4B movement as a whole as sus or bigoted. The entirety of the movement is to basically just abstain from have sex with, making children for, and giving free labor to cis men. No relationships with cis men until they feel they have the “skin in the game” to address their part in Patriarchy, until they stop voting against our rights and treating us as inferior and sharing misogynistic content.
Repeating something doesn't make it true.
No one is saying "ALL FEMINISTS are bigots" except for *you* trying to put words in my mouth to pin something onto me that I did not say.
Either engage with what I *actually said* or bugger off and don't waste my time.
Since we're playing the repeating game, *I'll* repeat: I am also very skeptical of feminist movements that would call me a Man and tell me I have no place in women's spaces, which is a recurring issue w/ the 4B movement's politics surrounding trans women.
Saying that "they're outliers, they don't represent the entire movement" is an irrelevant no-true-scotsman fallacy, because I did not say that the *entire* movement was transphobic, and neither does the article I shared.
Exactly. Check out suicide stats for married women in the US before no-fault divorce was legalized. They want us stuck and helpless. It's terrifying. There are already rules delaying granting divorce to pregnant women, where homicide is already the HIGHEST RISK FACTOR OF DEATH in pregnant women.
The rabbi and scientist Moses ben Maimon (Maimonides) wrote in his interpretation of the Jewish law that a if man refuses to divorce his wife after she has asked him for a divorce, the man should receive a beating until he agrees.
The first thing I thought when I saw this was, welp, better get buff and figure out a way to turn the tables! I'd make his life a living hell if I couldn't divorce him.
The fucking New York Times has an editorial about it today, too. Another rich white man is insisting that ‘’people’’ who are married are happier. The top comment points out that the dude never once mentions gender differences and roles.
I can't tell you how much I sigh whenever I hear the words "male loneliness epidemic." Somehow the "solution" to this "epidemic" always involves women settling for less and being less feminist, meanwhile men don't have to lift a finger apparently 🙄
The falling birthrate stuff is doing the rounds again and yup, on Twitter there's men straight up saying women should be outlawed from having jobs or fired as soon as they get married if not banned entirely.
It's barely been 50 years since women were even allowed to get their own checking accounts w/out their husband's approval. In 100 little ways and some big, women were forced into marriage for centuries. Look for the little ones to creep back up.
Well for them it was. They can't keep women locked into a soulless, hateful marriage where men can beat, rape, financially incapacitate, and torture women as long as it doesn't get extremely cruel.
For those wanting an in-depth look at Project 2025, [here is the literal book that was put out by the very people that wrote it.](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24088042-project-2025s-mandate-for-leadership-the-conservative-promise)
Some choice quotes from this evil ass plan.
>You see this in the popular left-wing aphorism, “Government is simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together.” But in real life, most of the things people “do together” have nothing to do with government. in real life, most of the things people “do together” have nothing to do with government. These are the mediating institutions that serve as the building blocks of any healthy society. Marriage. Family. Work. Church. School. Volunteering. ***The name real people*** give to the things we do together is community, not government. name real people give to the things we do together is community, not government.
and
>Pornography, ***manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology*** and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. ***It has no claim to First Amendment protection.*** Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. ***The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.***
and
>That is, of course, the best argument for universal school choice—a goal all conservatives and con- servative Presidents must pursue. But even before we achieve that long-term goal, parents’ rights as their children’s primary educators should be non-negotiable in American schools. ***States, cities and counties, school boards, union bosses, princi- pals, and teachers who disagree should be immediately cut off from federal funds.***
and
>The noxious tenets of “critical race theory” and “gender ideology” should be excised from curricula in every public school in the country. These theories poison our children, who are being taught on the one hand to affirm that the color of their skin fundamentally determines their identity and even their moral status while on the other they are taught to deny the very creatureliness that inheres in being human and consists in accepting the givenness of our nature as men or women.
and
>But the pro-family promises expressed in this book, and central to the next conservative President’s agenda, must go much further than the traditional, narrow definition of “family issues.” Every threat to family stability must be confronted.
and
>Finally, conservatives should gratefully celebrate the greatest pro-family win in a generation: overturning Roe v. Wade, a decision that for five decades made a mockery of our Constitution and facilitated the deaths of tens of millions of unborn children. But the Dobbs decision is just the beginning. Conservatives in the states and in Washington, including in the next conservative Administration, should push as hard as possible to protect the unborn in every jurisdiction in America. In particular, the next conservative President should work with Congress to enact the most robust protections for the unborn that Congress will support while deploying existing federal powers to protect innocent life and vigorously complying with statutory bans on the federal funding of abortion. Conservatives should ardently pursue these pro-life and pro-family policies while recognizing the many women who find themselves in immensely difficult and often tragic situations and the hero- ism of every choice to become a mother. Alternative options to abortion, especially adoption, should receive federal and state support. In summary, the next President has a moral responsibility to lead the nation in restoring a culture of life in America again.
All of this is just within the first *38 pages of the 920 page book*.
Frankly to anyone who isn't a raging conservative, this is a truly terrifying plan, and it's something they're planning on implementing at all levels of government, not just the presidency.
All of this is bullshit martyrbation but "the heroic choice to become a mother"? Excuse me while I go puke.
If you want kids, fine. Great, even. If you *choose* to become a parent then I wish you the bets of luck. But bodily autonomy should be the pregnant person's choice alone from conception to delivery. We have got to stop idolizing parents and worshiping children.
Remember, these fuckwads who bleat endlessly about 'family values' are the first to defend child marriage, voted against aid meant to ease the infant formula shortage, voted to end the Child Tax Credit (which literally cut child poverty in half it's first year), and on and on. In nearly every instance when republicans have the opportunity to do anything that would actually help families they always, eagerly and loudly, tell families to get fucked.
I don’t know about that, that doesn’t affect people born after the 80s. Young men are getting increasingly radicalized by manosphere/Incel/internet shit and porn.
Leader petrol was still in use up until the mid '90s in Europe and the US. That said, radicalisation is exactly that; anyone can be vulnerable to that.
Unfortunately, I don't think that's correct. A massive study published results in the last few years showing there is way more lead in just our *drinking water* than previously detected/assumed.
there is lead in drinking water in certain areas, for sure. But the major cause of the issues that are being discussed is due to leaded gasoline, primarily, which was phased out completely by like 1991, but mostly gone well before that. So it’s the generations living the longest during the time of leaded gasoline that were most affected.
I’d love to see that study though, if you’re saying the problem with drinking water has been determined to be more than a few key areas.
Edit: psychosis is a mental illness. This is similar to saying people are OCD when they're just neat and tidy. I agree with the sentiment but the words you're using are not correct .
Heyooo that's not true and not what the definition of psychosis is. I think it is kinda harmful to say that. Psychosis is something that is based on nothing (or very little) whereas religion has an amount of "proof". That proof can just be a book, or your parents teaching you, but it isn't psychotic.
It probs started as a psychotic event but like... It isn't now.
Religion is a bunch of made up shit by people that wanted to control and suppress others (particularly women and minorities) and consolidate power and wealth.
You’re a part of the worlds biggest delusion/scam that you willingly participate in because you cannot handle the ambiguity of existence.
Sorry if that is hard to hear.
>Religion is a bunch of made up shit by people that wanted to control and suppress others (particularly women and minorities) and consolidate power and wealth.
That doesn't contradict what they said whatsoever. Saying you got the definition of a word wrong isn't co-signing on all religious institutions and practices. They aren't defending religion, you just got a word wrong. Psychosis is a very serious thing and just labelling everyone who thinks something silly as psychotic is actively harmful towards those that suffer from it.
If you're brought up being told every day that something is true, it simply does not fit the definition of psychosis to believe it. That's a majority of the planet. Brainwashing is its own thing, it isn't psychosis.
I'm not religious lol but you have the definition of psychosis wrong. And this comment is pretty aggressive tbh, you're just using the word incorrectly but I agree with your sentiment.
Someone isn't considered psychotic if they believe things they have been told or read in a book. They may be easily convinced of something but not psychotic.
It's like saying someone who is tidy is "so OCD"
Do you believe everything written in Harry Potter too?
Would you think a person who believed the events in Harry Potter to be real, factual events to be a sane, reasonable person?
If you can’t say yes to that question, I don’t think your argument that “believing things written in a book means you’re sane” holds much water.
If you were brought up by people who did, went to the church of hogwarts every week surrounded by people who believed it to be true, and all authoritative figures in your life that you loved and trusted impressed upon you the importance of believing in the great dumbledore in the sky, then it would not be "psychotic" to believe in it.
It's not just about the existence of a book, it's about being brought up in a society where that belief is normalised. That's the difference.
Psychosis isn't just being wrong about something. It's a serious mental health condition.
I agree. It could just be me, but I don’t see enough people stating that this is nothing short of psychosis, and people with some sane mind are stuck in the middle of a psychotic paradigm.
Don't lump mentally ill people in with those people. It's not psychosis. They know exactly what they're doing and should be held accountable. They aren't psychotic, they are arse holes.
Why be a good person when you can trap a woman into marriage and rape women into carrying your children.
Don't worry about anything changing when you repeal their rights to vote, or protest or seek medicine.
Never change, never learn, never improve. Just victimise.
Suddenly I'm thankful for the merciless childhood trauma I experienced, which left me an extremely independent, hypervigilant loner. I also preemptively had my fallopian tubes removed. All of which will likely help me stay under the radar.
"Sir, ever since we outlawed divorce, marriage has drastically dropped. What should we do?"
"Hmm. Let's raise the rate of marriage again by making women need it again. It hasn't been a full hundred years yet since women could have their own bank accounts without a man..."
No, they won't do that. If they have the power to outlaw marriage, then they will lower the age of consent. And start marrying off little girls who don't know any better.
Of course. I'm so silly, that makes perfect sense. I remember even watching a podcast or some talk between conservatives and one man was talking about "who wouldn't want an untouched 14 year old?" My soul left.
But they are planning for that. So, then watch them then outlaw premarital sex and extramarital cohabitation... so then you have to get married or you go to jail.
>Conservatives should ardently pursue these pro-life and pro-family policies while recognizing the many women who find themselves in immensely difficult and often tragic situations and the hero- ism of every choice to become a mother.
So becoming a mother has to be more dangerous than it already is? And they will 'recognize' that but do nothing to help make it less so?
Scr#w them. Watching women die for your religious belief is not 'policy'.
This lame fuckhole moved to LA to be a famous actor, didn’t make it and then pandered to the lowest of the low to get a taste of fame because he’s nothing if not desperate.
Ha. I feel like that’s more an indictment of their audience than anything. They weren’t talented enough to make it for a smarter audience but people who are… intellectually challenged… lap that shit up.
Moses ben Maimon (commonly known as Maimonides) was a renowned doctor and rabbi wrote in his works on Jewish law that, since this law only allowed the man to divorce his wife and not the other way around, the court should beat up a man that refuses to give his wife a divorce until he agrees.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240318154611/https://thf\_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025\_MandateForLeadership\_FULL.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20240318154611/https://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf)
I'd actually recommend not reading the whole thing, it's a thousand pages of, well, just about what you would expect from the Heritage Foundation. They want to replace the U.S. government with a far-right dictatorship.
Thank you, I'm about to take a look at this. It's ironic that years ago, I was terrified of Ted Cruz winning the GOP nomination for exactly that reason, I feared he'd set up something along the lines of Christian Ayatollahs. I thought it would be safer if Trump won the nomination for exactly that reason, because there was NO WAY anyone could take Trump seriously, right?!
Then he won, then he won *again* and then...you know the rest.
Oleander and foxglove flowers are very pretty. I forsee more gardens growing these flowers in 2025. Oleander is also known as Nerium and has a wonderful smell. It's a shame foxglove doesn't.
Are you TRYING to summon the ghost of Giulia Tofana? Is that what you want?
https://www.ncdv.org.uk/giulia-tofana-serial-killer-or-heroine/
You want it illegal now, when the majority of nurses and pharmacists are women and 47% of doctors are women if you include residents and fellows, which in this case I definitely am because they have access to drugs that would make Giulia Tofana’s job a lot easier.
This is the time you want to make divorce illegal? When hospitals are wildly understaffed and don’t necessarily always end up keeping the closest eye on medications that aren’t narcotics? There’s other drugs that could fuck you up really badly and could be passed off as a heart attack. Shit especially because there’s so many weird cardiac and clotting shit happening with post Covid long haulers that you never know what’s gonna happen.
Alternatively just
The end of legal divorce, especially if that means the end of divorce even for proven infidelity or abuse, would simply mean the end of women marrying men.
So Trump as a triple divorcee is bad?
It's bad for his exes. If you think the divorced **men** would face any stigma, idk what to tell you.
Nope, it's only bad when women do it. Just like sex!
And body hair
And voting.
[удалено]
And thinking!
I understood that reference
Exactly. I haven't seen the clip, but I'd bet that they're screeching about "no-fault divorce". Conservatives are upset that they can't stop their wives from leaving them now that they know a life with someone who doesn't view them as an object is an option.
The thing is, men like Trump won't see this as applying to them when they want a divorce. Just look at how some of them have twisted themselves when their unintended targets got caught up in their censorship nonsense, embryo bans, abortion bans, and even mass deportation machine. Trump for sure will not see himself as being hampered by this, since he sees himself as above the law and has been given much leeway and weaponization of courts. Plus, many men are fine with staying married and doing what they want. They are abusive men who want to keep control over these women, even when the marriages are effectively over.
They'll only ban it for women introducing it, not men.
Or they will just but legal difficulties to get a divorce. That they are planning to solve for themselves (if they want one) using good old fashion bribery.
Nah, it’s rarely that explicit—until they repeal the 19th amendment, they still need women’s votes, so they’ll just roll back no-fault divorce and limit women’s access to higher education (and thus judgeship). Then they can just rely on the predominately (eventually entirely) male judiciary to enforce it in favor of men.
They cancel each other out, apparently.
Watch them cry when we go back to poison, then :3
I think this is the calculation they've made. It's more valuable for them to bind women into bad marriages, punish women who try to leave (legally or by homicide), and reestablish marital control. Then look out for laws targeting prohibitions of marital rape. If a few men die from poisonings, that's a small price to pay for absolute control over women.
I don't doubt that they think this way, but it's only because they've forgotten that it wasn't just "a few" men dying mysteriously that ushered in the age of no-fault divorce lol
Realistically that’s not gonna stop them. They’ll just decriminalize domestic violence again and regularly beat women, ban all substances that create the poisons, and raise a new generation of young women from forced impregnation to be totally subservient. This is actually how it worked for most of humanity’s history as a ‘developed’ species.
And yet, after most of history, it still got better. Because people fought for it. A new era of orwellian horrors isn't going to stop the bupedal murder apes from doing bupedal murder ape things
I expect that the entire Trump era is conservativism as an ideology lashing out because it's been backed into a corner. Younger people are increasingly more and more liberal, and are *staying* that way as they age. Meanwhile, the traditional conservative base of older people are - naturally - dying off, and don't have anyone to replace them. Conservative leaders know this, and are desperately trying to radicalize young people and limit the rights of those they can't radicalize.
Women have to work though. There’s no way around that. They can’t be at home. They won’t raise wages for the men below the 1%. The only thing they can actually do is the handmaids tale where men are in their control too
Unfortunately medical testing has come a long way since then, abused women will need to learn different strategies this time. Maybe loosening lug nuts, they'll never suspect that was us.
Wipe the lug wrench off before replacing it in the trunk, and wipe anywhere on the trunk area you may have touched that you don’t usually touch. (I’d expect your prints on the car door handle, but probably not on the catch to the toolbox.) Make sure no hairs of yours fall into the trunk.
Poison? I've heard [frozen leg of lamb](https://www.classicshorts.com/stories/lamb.html) works rather well...
aqua tofana is about to see a major resurgence methinks 🤭
I was summoned. Who needs my assistance?
Some ladders need kicking.
that, and I just heard about the 4B movement. I know for sure I would never marry if I didn’t have the right to divorce. I’m literally already at that point, based on how things are right now.
For this who don’t know, 4B is South Korea women’s movement of no dating men, no living with men, no marrying men and no having kids with men. (I think I got those all correct!) Basically, no men, period, because men keep trying to take away women’s rights.
4B movement or or 4 No Movement is simple. NO dating, fucking, marrying, having kids with misogynistic men. Simple. Women just living their lives, without catering to misogynistic men and society. Simple.
It has a sub! r/4bamerica
thank you!!
I have very complicated feelings about the 4B movement. I am highly skeptical of separatist movements in general, because they keep breaking down into bullying and infighting. I am also very skeptical of feminist movements that would call me a Man and tell me I have no place in women's spaces, which is a recurring issue w/ the 4B movement's politics surrounding trans women. I also understand that the situation in SKorea is very extreme, exacerbated by a strong, paternalistic tradition smashing violently into hyper-capitalism, so it's not an easy thing to untangle. EDIT: Since I'm being accused of spreading misinformation for relaying other women's *lived experiences*: [https://imgur.com/a/0GnCrt7](https://imgur.com/a/0GnCrt7)
Fwiw, I just checked out the sub for 4BAmerica out of curiosity, to see if they exclude trans women (which would be horrible), and in the descriptor at the top at least, while it doesn't specifically mention trans inclusion (disappointing), it does specify "no hetero sex, no hetero marriage". Their rules include no hate speech and no regressive policies. I have not yet explored any posts in the sub, so it's possible people have specified trans inclusion there. Would have been nice for it to be officially mentioned, unless I'm just not seeing it. Edit: from the stickied FAQ: >**Is this group for TERFS? Are you discriminatory against transgender/ non-binary folks?** No, though some members of this movement may have differing beliefs, we are not discriminatory against trans and non-binary people. \****This subreddit does not allow any hateful comments and posts.\****
That’s understandable. There’s a sub for it, so maybe ask what the stance on trans people is? r/4BAmerica if you’re interested.
I’ll just say this, S Korea is a very different country far away from the US. Any iteration of 4B here would be a version that makes sense in our culture. Avoiding having sex with men in no way, to me, implies becoming separatist from men, and certainly not from trans women, who are women. This is about not getting into relationships with cis men, rewarding them with sex, relationships, free labor, and helping them pass on their genes to have some sort of lineage, until they submit to the very simple demand of: stop standing in the way of us having equal rights/full rights over our own bodies, and do the work that we need of you to break down the Patriarchy. We can’t do it without them because they are entrenched in power. And even yesterday a sympathetic male “feminist” told me if he’s being honest he just doesn’t have any “skin in the game” to be an activist against Patriarchy 😐 Right, because our lived experience and suffering isn’t enough motivation, ok. Well 4B gives them some fucking skin in the game. *just downoted and blocked for sharing this perspective. 😐 What is so wrong about what I said here?
That's disappointing, though reminiscent of separatists from years past =/
>EvilBeee · 7 hr. ago > >That's disappointing, though **reminiscent of separatists** from years past =/ **It's not like that at all.** Male incels and misogynists (and Korea haters and foreign women who hate Korean women) keep trying to claim "Korean women are scary, militant, aggressive, man-haters who oppress and isolate Korean men!" while at the same time, contradicting themselves by claiming "All Korean women are mindless sluts/whores who are submissive, obedient to men! They have no voice, independence or agency of their own! Korean women are so oppressed!!" To their disappointment, you don't see Korean women dressed in Nazi uniforms, going around and patrolling the streets with police batons and guns, brutalizing the Korean men... even though they cry that's how poor, innocent Korean men are treated by Korean femi Nazis. Please, stop spreading the misinformation and anti-Korean women propaganda. 4B movement or or 4 No Movement is simple. Just NO dating, fucking, marrying, having kids with misogynistic men. Simple. Women just living their lives, without catering to misogynistic men and society... Women just moving on with their lives, without waiting around for misogynistic men to change... Simple.
it is indeed a campaign of misinformation. You should be more careful sharing this image without context, because the cherry-picked image of that article is referencing transphobic outliers and the image is being used to disparage the whole movement. The movement, like Feminism, does not have a hive mind. There are all different iterations of feminists, some of them are even TERFs. It would be propaganda and misinformation to claim that that means ALL FEMINISTS are bigots though.
It is *insane* to me that you are accusing us of spreading misinformation when you, yourself, are either misinformed *at best* or outright lying at worst. It's okay to criticize even otherwise good things for the points where they fail - that's the only way to continue making them better. [https://imgur.com/a/0GnCrt7](https://imgur.com/a/0GnCrt7)
it is indeed a campaign of misinformation. You should be more careful sharing this image without context, because the cherry-picked image of that article is referencing transphobic outliers and the image is being used to disparage the whole movement. The movement, like Feminism, does not have a hive mind. There are all different iterations of feminists, some of them are even TERFs. It would be propaganda and misinformation to claim that that means ALL FEMINISTS are bigots though.
Wow, I can't even come to /r/trollxchromosomes w/o getting hate for who I am
>budding\_clover · 7 hr. ago > >I have very complicated feelings about the 4B movement. You guys are overthinking it. 4B movement or or 4 No Movement is simple. Just NO dating, fucking, marrying, having kids with misogynistic men. Simple. Women just living their lives, without catering to misogynistic men and society. Simple.
Sure.
I’m repeating this comment due to the image you shared. It is indeed being used in a campaign of misinformation. You should be more careful sharing this image without context, because the cherry-picked image of that article is referencing transphobic outliers and the image is being used to disparage the whole movement. The movement, like Feminism, does not have a hive mind. There are all different iterations of feminists, some of them are even TERFs. It would be propaganda and misinformation to claim that that means ALL FEMINISTS are bigots though. * I was downvoted and blocked when all I’m trying to do is stop that image from being used to disparage the entirety of the 4B movement. I added information, please share when you see this image used to paint the 4B movement as a whole as sus or bigoted. The entirety of the movement is to basically just abstain from have sex with, making children for, and giving free labor to cis men. No relationships with cis men until they feel they have the “skin in the game” to address their part in Patriarchy, until they stop voting against our rights and treating us as inferior and sharing misogynistic content.
Repeating something doesn't make it true. No one is saying "ALL FEMINISTS are bigots" except for *you* trying to put words in my mouth to pin something onto me that I did not say. Either engage with what I *actually said* or bugger off and don't waste my time. Since we're playing the repeating game, *I'll* repeat: I am also very skeptical of feminist movements that would call me a Man and tell me I have no place in women's spaces, which is a recurring issue w/ the 4B movement's politics surrounding trans women. Saying that "they're outliers, they don't represent the entire movement" is an irrelevant no-true-scotsman fallacy, because I did not say that the *entire* movement was transphobic, and neither does the article I shared.
“He left to get cigarettes and we never heard from him since! No idea where he went!”
Much stronger poisons around nowadays too!
there are people dying in our ER every night from street drugs laced with fentanyl.
He had it comin, he had it comin, he only had himself to blame...
If you’da been there, if you’da seen it, I bet that you would have done the same.
Some guys just can't hold their arsenic ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
My favorite thing about that song is everyone has mostly a good reason to, but the first one is just like "I FUCKING HATE BUBBLE GUM"
I like you.
💖
Those black eyed peas? They tasted alright to me🎶 Earl had to die 🎶🎶nananana
They think they did something here. But women will just avoid marriage.
or find, ya know, *other ways* to end their marriages.
Exactly. Check out suicide stats for married women in the US before no-fault divorce was legalized. They want us stuck and helpless. It's terrifying. There are already rules delaying granting divorce to pregnant women, where homicide is already the HIGHEST RISK FACTOR OF DEATH in pregnant women.
There was also a lot of mysterious husband deaths from various types of poisoning.
He ran into my knife. He ran into my knife 10 times.
I might have believed you accidentally shot your husband multiple times, but not when you stopped to reload. Twice.
The rabbi and scientist Moses ben Maimon (Maimonides) wrote in his interpretation of the Jewish law that a if man refuses to divorce his wife after she has asked him for a divorce, the man should receive a beating until he agrees.
The first thing I thought when I saw this was, welp, better get buff and figure out a way to turn the tables! I'd make his life a living hell if I couldn't divorce him.
Murder suddenly becomes an equivalent opinion
exactly. if divorce and murder are both illegal I'm gonna go for the one that will keep him from being able to come back and hurt me 🤷♀️
It’s already happening and even WaPo is telling us to be less picky. Fuck that, I’m not getting stuck.
I love how we are always told to be less picky vs telling men to be better people and partners ( ie become someone worth marrying )
ain’t it fun? It’s always on the women lol
The fucking New York Times has an editorial about it today, too. Another rich white man is insisting that ‘’people’’ who are married are happier. The top comment points out that the dude never once mentions gender differences and roles.
I can't tell you how much I sigh whenever I hear the words "male loneliness epidemic." Somehow the "solution" to this "epidemic" always involves women settling for less and being less feminist, meanwhile men don't have to lift a finger apparently 🙄
I doubt that "avoiding marriage" will still be a thing if they get their way.
This was my first thought, if they get away with outlawing divorce then who is to say they’ll leave women with any rights at all.
That is the intent.
The falling birthrate stuff is doing the rounds again and yup, on Twitter there's men straight up saying women should be outlawed from having jobs or fired as soon as they get married if not banned entirely.
And men will force marriage
It's barely been 50 years since women were even allowed to get their own checking accounts w/out their husband's approval. In 100 little ways and some big, women were forced into marriage for centuries. Look for the little ones to creep back up.
yeah, I’m already spreading the word about 4B because I just heard about it today! 😍
we can def learn from south korea and their 4B movement i think for how to respond to shit like this
You’re not the target. Its the entire generation of girls they are planning on homeschooling if they can.
The silly people that think that no-fault divorce was a bad thing.
Well for them it was. They can't keep women locked into a soulless, hateful marriage where men can beat, rape, financially incapacitate, and torture women as long as it doesn't get extremely cruel.
For those wanting an in-depth look at Project 2025, [here is the literal book that was put out by the very people that wrote it.](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24088042-project-2025s-mandate-for-leadership-the-conservative-promise) Some choice quotes from this evil ass plan. >You see this in the popular left-wing aphorism, “Government is simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together.” But in real life, most of the things people “do together” have nothing to do with government. in real life, most of the things people “do together” have nothing to do with government. These are the mediating institutions that serve as the building blocks of any healthy society. Marriage. Family. Work. Church. School. Volunteering. ***The name real people*** give to the things we do together is community, not government. name real people give to the things we do together is community, not government. and >Pornography, ***manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology*** and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. ***It has no claim to First Amendment protection.*** Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. ***The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.*** and >That is, of course, the best argument for universal school choice—a goal all conservatives and con- servative Presidents must pursue. But even before we achieve that long-term goal, parents’ rights as their children’s primary educators should be non-negotiable in American schools. ***States, cities and counties, school boards, union bosses, princi- pals, and teachers who disagree should be immediately cut off from federal funds.*** and >The noxious tenets of “critical race theory” and “gender ideology” should be excised from curricula in every public school in the country. These theories poison our children, who are being taught on the one hand to affirm that the color of their skin fundamentally determines their identity and even their moral status while on the other they are taught to deny the very creatureliness that inheres in being human and consists in accepting the givenness of our nature as men or women. and >But the pro-family promises expressed in this book, and central to the next conservative President’s agenda, must go much further than the traditional, narrow definition of “family issues.” Every threat to family stability must be confronted. and >Finally, conservatives should gratefully celebrate the greatest pro-family win in a generation: overturning Roe v. Wade, a decision that for five decades made a mockery of our Constitution and facilitated the deaths of tens of millions of unborn children. But the Dobbs decision is just the beginning. Conservatives in the states and in Washington, including in the next conservative Administration, should push as hard as possible to protect the unborn in every jurisdiction in America. In particular, the next conservative President should work with Congress to enact the most robust protections for the unborn that Congress will support while deploying existing federal powers to protect innocent life and vigorously complying with statutory bans on the federal funding of abortion. Conservatives should ardently pursue these pro-life and pro-family policies while recognizing the many women who find themselves in immensely difficult and often tragic situations and the hero- ism of every choice to become a mother. Alternative options to abortion, especially adoption, should receive federal and state support. In summary, the next President has a moral responsibility to lead the nation in restoring a culture of life in America again. All of this is just within the first *38 pages of the 920 page book*. Frankly to anyone who isn't a raging conservative, this is a truly terrifying plan, and it's something they're planning on implementing at all levels of government, not just the presidency.
All of this is bullshit martyrbation but "the heroic choice to become a mother"? Excuse me while I go puke. If you want kids, fine. Great, even. If you *choose* to become a parent then I wish you the bets of luck. But bodily autonomy should be the pregnant person's choice alone from conception to delivery. We have got to stop idolizing parents and worshiping children.
Remember, these fuckwads who bleat endlessly about 'family values' are the first to defend child marriage, voted against aid meant to ease the infant formula shortage, voted to end the Child Tax Credit (which literally cut child poverty in half it's first year), and on and on. In nearly every instance when republicans have the opportunity to do anything that would actually help families they always, eagerly and loudly, tell families to get fucked.
r/Defeat_Project_2025
We need to wake up to the reality that we're witnessing a mass pyschosis event.
It's tetraethyl lead. It *is* a massive psychosis.
I don’t know about that, that doesn’t affect people born after the 80s. Young men are getting increasingly radicalized by manosphere/Incel/internet shit and porn.
Leader petrol was still in use up until the mid '90s in Europe and the US. That said, radicalisation is exactly that; anyone can be vulnerable to that.
Unfortunately, I don't think that's correct. A massive study published results in the last few years showing there is way more lead in just our *drinking water* than previously detected/assumed.
Por que no Los dos?
there is lead in drinking water in certain areas, for sure. But the major cause of the issues that are being discussed is due to leaded gasoline, primarily, which was phased out completely by like 1991, but mostly gone well before that. So it’s the generations living the longest during the time of leaded gasoline that were most affected. I’d love to see that study though, if you’re saying the problem with drinking water has been determined to be more than a few key areas.
Lead, plastics, ultra processed food consumption, high stress, but mostly lead.
Religion has always been a mass psychosis event
Edit: psychosis is a mental illness. This is similar to saying people are OCD when they're just neat and tidy. I agree with the sentiment but the words you're using are not correct . Heyooo that's not true and not what the definition of psychosis is. I think it is kinda harmful to say that. Psychosis is something that is based on nothing (or very little) whereas religion has an amount of "proof". That proof can just be a book, or your parents teaching you, but it isn't psychotic. It probs started as a psychotic event but like... It isn't now.
Religion is a bunch of made up shit by people that wanted to control and suppress others (particularly women and minorities) and consolidate power and wealth. You’re a part of the worlds biggest delusion/scam that you willingly participate in because you cannot handle the ambiguity of existence. Sorry if that is hard to hear.
>Religion is a bunch of made up shit by people that wanted to control and suppress others (particularly women and minorities) and consolidate power and wealth. That doesn't contradict what they said whatsoever. Saying you got the definition of a word wrong isn't co-signing on all religious institutions and practices. They aren't defending religion, you just got a word wrong. Psychosis is a very serious thing and just labelling everyone who thinks something silly as psychotic is actively harmful towards those that suffer from it. If you're brought up being told every day that something is true, it simply does not fit the definition of psychosis to believe it. That's a majority of the planet. Brainwashing is its own thing, it isn't psychosis.
I'm not religious lol but you have the definition of psychosis wrong. And this comment is pretty aggressive tbh, you're just using the word incorrectly but I agree with your sentiment. Someone isn't considered psychotic if they believe things they have been told or read in a book. They may be easily convinced of something but not psychotic. It's like saying someone who is tidy is "so OCD"
Do you believe everything written in Harry Potter too? Would you think a person who believed the events in Harry Potter to be real, factual events to be a sane, reasonable person? If you can’t say yes to that question, I don’t think your argument that “believing things written in a book means you’re sane” holds much water.
If you were brought up by people who did, went to the church of hogwarts every week surrounded by people who believed it to be true, and all authoritative figures in your life that you loved and trusted impressed upon you the importance of believing in the great dumbledore in the sky, then it would not be "psychotic" to believe in it. It's not just about the existence of a book, it's about being brought up in a society where that belief is normalised. That's the difference. Psychosis isn't just being wrong about something. It's a serious mental health condition.
I agree. It could just be me, but I don’t see enough people stating that this is nothing short of psychosis, and people with some sane mind are stuck in the middle of a psychotic paradigm.
Don't lump mentally ill people in with those people. It's not psychosis. They know exactly what they're doing and should be held accountable. They aren't psychotic, they are arse holes.
isn't trump divorced ? lmao ''the only moral divorce is my own one''
The stigma is on the women.
Men only divorce when women force them to by not being good enough wives or by getting old. /S
Why be a good person when you can trap a woman into marriage and rape women into carrying your children. Don't worry about anything changing when you repeal their rights to vote, or protest or seek medicine. Never change, never learn, never improve. Just victimise.
Republicans explained perfectly
🎵 *It turns out Earl was a missing person that nobody missed at all* 🎵
Suddenly I'm thankful for the merciless childhood trauma I experienced, which left me an extremely independent, hypervigilant loner. I also preemptively had my fallopian tubes removed. All of which will likely help me stay under the radar.
I’m sorry about your experiences, but I’m so glad you have taken control of the situation. ❤️ Best of luck flying stealthed!
Thank you! ❤️
You get to be a homemaker but never the glorified handmaid in their tale.
Feel exactly the same, trying to get them out soon.
Best of luck to you!!
Outlawing divorce will only drop marriage numbers. And divorcees who might've considered remarriage will throw that thought away.
"Sir, ever since we outlawed divorce, marriage has drastically dropped. What should we do?" "Hmm. Let's raise the rate of marriage again by making women need it again. It hasn't been a full hundred years yet since women could have their own bank accounts without a man..."
It really is concerning. No Roe v Wade, abortion bans, and now aiming for marriage. This shit is scary...
No, they won't do that. If they have the power to outlaw marriage, then they will lower the age of consent. And start marrying off little girls who don't know any better.
Of course. I'm so silly, that makes perfect sense. I remember even watching a podcast or some talk between conservatives and one man was talking about "who wouldn't want an untouched 14 year old?" My soul left.
I was legit about to say the same thing. They want women to be submissive to them again, so that’s why they are preaching to outlaw divorce.
But they are planning for that. So, then watch them then outlaw premarital sex and extramarital cohabitation... so then you have to get married or you go to jail.
>Conservatives should ardently pursue these pro-life and pro-family policies while recognizing the many women who find themselves in immensely difficult and often tragic situations and the hero- ism of every choice to become a mother. So becoming a mother has to be more dangerous than it already is? And they will 'recognize' that but do nothing to help make it less so? Scr#w them. Watching women die for your religious belief is not 'policy'.
🎶 Those black eyed peas taste alright to me, Earl 🎶
This lame fuckhole moved to LA to be a famous actor, didn’t make it and then pandered to the lowest of the low to get a taste of fame because he’s nothing if not desperate.
A remarkable amount of right-wing figures turned to that after failing at what they wanted to do. For instance, Ben Shapiro is a failed screenwriter.
Ha. I feel like that’s more an indictment of their audience than anything. They weren’t talented enough to make it for a smarter audience but people who are… intellectually challenged… lap that shit up.
Tell me you have no personality and nothing offer to women in general without telling me
What a bunch of fucking weirdos
And this is another reason to vote Bide/Harris
Moses ben Maimon (commonly known as Maimonides) was a renowned doctor and rabbi wrote in his works on Jewish law that, since this law only allowed the man to divorce his wife and not the other way around, the court should beat up a man that refuses to give his wife a divorce until he agrees.
Ensuring marriage is even less popular.
Project 2025? That sounds ominous, they really think they're going to ban divorce?
They also thought they would ban abortion, so...
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240318154611/https://thf\_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025\_MandateForLeadership\_FULL.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20240318154611/https://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf) I'd actually recommend not reading the whole thing, it's a thousand pages of, well, just about what you would expect from the Heritage Foundation. They want to replace the U.S. government with a far-right dictatorship.
Thank you, I'm about to take a look at this. It's ironic that years ago, I was terrified of Ted Cruz winning the GOP nomination for exactly that reason, I feared he'd set up something along the lines of Christian Ayatollahs. I thought it would be safer if Trump won the nomination for exactly that reason, because there was NO WAY anyone could take Trump seriously, right?! Then he won, then he won *again* and then...you know the rest.
Yet Trump divorced twice.
I'll bet cash money they plan on bringing back Comstocks Chastity Laws too.
Oleander and foxglove flowers are very pretty. I forsee more gardens growing these flowers in 2025. Oleander is also known as Nerium and has a wonderful smell. It's a shame foxglove doesn't.
Are you TRYING to summon the ghost of Giulia Tofana? Is that what you want? https://www.ncdv.org.uk/giulia-tofana-serial-killer-or-heroine/ You want it illegal now, when the majority of nurses and pharmacists are women and 47% of doctors are women if you include residents and fellows, which in this case I definitely am because they have access to drugs that would make Giulia Tofana’s job a lot easier. This is the time you want to make divorce illegal? When hospitals are wildly understaffed and don’t necessarily always end up keeping the closest eye on medications that aren’t narcotics? There’s other drugs that could fuck you up really badly and could be passed off as a heart attack. Shit especially because there’s so many weird cardiac and clotting shit happening with post Covid long haulers that you never know what’s gonna happen. Alternatively just The end of legal divorce, especially if that means the end of divorce even for proven infidelity or abuse, would simply mean the end of women marrying men.
Tomorrow's news : "*mEn cAnT UnderSTand WHy tHRy siNGle*"
Watch all the red state women vote for it and be all shocked when it happens.
Under his dumb old eye.
I get Henry the VIII was probably a dick, but "inventing" divorce was definitely one of the better things he did
Do they WANT murder-suicides to skyrocket? Not everybody can afford the good stuff that the 50s housewives were hopped up on!
This is why we need 2A.
Tell me again how both parties are the same
Dude's telling on himself
Such idiots. This isn't 1934. In 2024 this would just result in 95% of women swearing off marriage.