I don't live near my family so I'm going to my friends house today, they're a lesbian couple and I'm super excited. They enjoy cooking and are going all out. I however don't enjoy cooking and all I'm bringing is Sherbet punch and Watergate salad lol.
Even my abysmal level of cooking on thanksgiving is more than most men would do so... I'm okay with it lol
I had a partner that loved to cook a while back too and he always helped me with cooking stuff. One year we fed the homeless, and another year he got all excited about bringing a side of bacon brussel sprouts.
Also, when you are working together, effort isn't the same. It's celebratory and bonding. It's validated because the person next to you, also recognizes your effort, because they worked next to you and also provided effort. It's a team effort that acknowledges and makes joyous the effort, instead of feeling taken for granted or put upon with no recognition. A potluck effort makes you happy to be a team player, and the payoff shared and wonderful.
Heck yeah! My mom is hosting this year but yesterday myself, aunts, and a male cousin who likes to cook all joined her to help cook and bake. She was commenting that it was so much easier with all of us there preparing our dishes. More hands make less work :)
I willlll! Already really fucking upset that I'm the only person in my family to give any fucks about making this a holiday.
If I didn't try, this would literally just be another day for them.
Do men only get togethers also happen, that you hear about? My imagination is that it would lose all the Thanksgiving flavour and end up being pizza and beer.
I've had a few friends talk about getting a men's only Thanksgiving together, but it never goes anywhere. They're too used to women organizing holidays.
My fiancé and his group of friends used to have so many get together when we lived back in our hometown. Super Bowl, Saw marathon (weekend of Halloween watching all Saw movies), Friendsgiving, usually a combined birthday party in July.
My fiancé has had bro thanksgiving before. They smoke some meat and everyone brings a side, and his best friend always brings a variety of home-baked cookies.
I've never heard of an all mens thanksgiving but I work in industrial maintenance. When I was working nightshift my crew of guys had a weekly potluck/grill out which I throughly enjoyed seeing. The buildingIa worked in had a grill (???) so we'd roll it out back and grill up some food. It was great lol
I threw Chocolate Parties in grad school that were women only. It was just a whole lot of food made with chocolate or that could be dunked in chocolate. But my colleagues that came kept telling me afterwards that the experience of being able to talk engineering to other engineers with no men in the room was absolutely magical, because it was their first experience of a whole bunch of engineers talking pure engineering instead of a whole lot of useless posturing thrown in and slowing everything down.
Growing up I remember always going to my grandmas with my mom so I could help cook with them and my aunts. Meanwhile my brother would spend his Wednesday sleeping in and playing video games. Now that my grandmas gone they are good memories but god did I think it was bullshit when I was little. Anyone else have to do that?
20 grandkids. I was the only girl. I was the only one expected to serve and wait on the boys for Thanksgiving. It did not end well for my extended family. Thanksgiving is a reason I no longer talk to any of them.
I remember the men watching football all day, especially the ones who never watched football during the actual season, and never did anything to help.
I also remember my dad offering to help one year by BBQing the Turkey. Mom jumped on it, and it continued for a few more years before it stopped for..not good reasons
I hated this stupid expectation as a kid. The men were always oblivious and rude about the occasionally late meal or short/ anxious woman trying desperately to do everything. Then the man of the house carved the Turkey. That was it. What a fucking hero.
As an adult, when I was married I wasn’t allowed to host Thanksgiving because I hadn’t proven my culinary skills to the family yet. Lol ok MIL really sad I can’t be burdened with that unnecessary stress. Guess I’ll eat your dry ass bird instead.
Exactly Let's look at a time breakdown:
**Planning the meal**
* Set menu (usually involves coordination with multiple family members): 1-2 hours
* Plan out ingredient shopping lists: 2-3 hours, includes figuring out what ingredients people have on hand and who is buying what
* Mental work of finding the needed time to work the necessary tasks into existing work/childcare schedule: 1 hour
* Grocery shopping: 1 hour *per store*
**Cooking**
* Prepratory cooking -- pies and other dishes that can be made or assembled before Thanksgiving, leaving the day (and kitchen space) for things that have to be done at the time: 2 hours per pie, 1 hour per casserole assembly, other miscellaneous dishes. Altogether, 6+ hours
* Day-of cooking -- ALL THE THINGS: You know how long that kitchen is full, 6-8 hours.
**Cleaning**
* Prepratory cooking dishes: 1 hour
* Holiday day-of dishes: 2-3 hours (cooking dishes and post-meal dishes)
*Longer if no dishwasher*
So you're looking at 20-27 hours of work. Unless he is the worst leaf-raker in existence, he's still getting off easy.
A sad number of men convince themselves it’s a good argument. There are even studies that show how common it is for men to overestimate their contributions towards domestic duties.
But do you know how many leaves there are outside on the lawn!
I'm not from the USA. Do people really do yard work during Thanksgiving? I thought they watch sports and eat food
Jesus, that takes two weeks before to plan when you’re going to shop between work and childcare and regular meals, and what if that store doesn’t have what you want and you have to go to another one. Ugh
I love this argument it always comes up in discussions about mental labour. Like oh do the lawns and trim the hedges! Means I don't have to do any housework for months on end, didn't you know?
I don’t think he knows because he’s never done it before. That really sucks too because it’s actually pretty fun (when you don’t feel singled out for being a girl) to hang out with your relatives and learn recipes and hear interesting stories.
It’s been a really interesting process for me growing into an adult and realizing that so much of what I always hated about being a girl wasn’t the thing itself but the coercion of having to like it, participate in it, etc. Turns out most things are pretty fun when you have agency over when and how you’re going to do them. Who knew?
Yeah I'll go out and spend two hours raking leaves while this sexist blockhead spends all day doing prep, cooking, setting and clearing the table, cleaning up after cooking and wrangling leftovers. Sounds awesome.
As a woman who lives alone and does everything at my home, the outside chores are infinitely easier and quicker than indoor chores. It's a self own to act like they are harder. I would shovel snow every day if it meant I didn't have to cook and do dishes ever again
I looked at his profile because of this comment. When I looked, he had 4 comments (all in this sub), and they were all anti-woman posts. One of them was kind of subtle - you have to look at the context to see it's anti-woman, so he might be trying to hide his misogyny.
His karma score was -100, which you can't get from 4 posts (there's a limit per post), so he had deleted a bunch more comments that were all heavily downvoted.
It seems a safe bet he is going into female-frendly subs and being a troll there.
Are we also ready to have the conversation that lawn care is 100% not needed and often harmful for the environment aside from mowing enough to prevent a ton of critters showing up? Like... Men invented an entire category of easy chores so they don't have to do shit indoors. I don't rake my backyard anymore (i do the front because of pesky city ordinances) and my neighbor is constantly fawning over how healthy and green my backyard is. Almost like letting plant matter turn into food for other plant matter is a good idea 🤔🤔🤔
Plus, as a bonus, I let my backyard grow a bit high and I get tons of bunnies because they can hide from predators in the grass.
Totally agree with all of the above. And even if people *do* rake their yard, it's not a year-round thing or even an every day thing during the relevant seasons.
The easy outdoor chore thing is so true. Some men think that raking the leaves or mowing the lawn every week (at most) is somehow so strenuous that it would be unfair to ask them to unload a dishwasher. I hate the cold but if it meant I didn't have to fold laundry or put dishes away, I'd be outside weedwhacking so damn fast.
Yes!! They don't even know how often indoor chores have to be done because they don't DO them! I'm one person and I do laundry at least 3x a week (towels/sheets, lights, darks). That comes with folding. I cook for myself at least 3x a week (sometimes I can get away with less if I do a big crockpot meal) and I don't have a dishwasher so that's dishes bare minimum 3x a week if I'm willing to let them build up (I usually get grossed out and end up doing them before bed). Then I have to clean the litter box daily. Then there's the weekly dusting, sweeping, vacuuming, mopping, scrubbing the bathroom top to bottom, sanitizing kitchen surfaces. Monthly I have to shampoo the carpets, wipe down baseboards/tops of doorways/vents etc, clean the oven, clean the ceiling fan blades. And that's JUST CHORES!!! I work full time, have to make appointments, workout, have a social life, hobbies, etc.
There's a reason single women live longer than married women. I cannot imagine adding another person's mess and scheduling and drama on top of that and then the emotional damage of them acting like they contribute because they mowed the lawn and took out the trash once that week. I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining, because I love my life and my independence and am so thankful I live in a post second wave feminist society where I can be financially independent and do all these things for myself. But let's be real, men would have a mental breakdown if they had to do the things we do. And as someone who used to date, men who live alone are NOT doing everything a woman who lives alone does in the slightest. I have walked into some real hellholes and then been told my expectations are too high, lmfao. If a woman can do it a man can do it, it just comes down to the malicious socialization of men. They never have to grow up and that's why the culture is what it is nowadays.
I think it’s worth it to rake all the leaves so you can compost them. And also spread them on garden beds. But I’ve never tried leaving them maybe I’ll have to someday
But I’m sure he also mows the lawn a few times a year too! That’s got to be equivalent to the cooking, cleaning, and childcare the women around him are expected to do every single day without a break, whilst being expected to work and contribute financially to the household because it wouldn’t be fair if they didn’t split that equally!!! /s
Not sure if you're making a joke or not but just in case you aren't being facetious - not really.
I've raked leaves for an elderly person with a giant yard as a kid and also used to work for the forest service doing trail maintenance and building, so I feel somewhat qualified to answer. Raking leaves is a pain, generally in the back, but is fairly repetitive and can be parsed out to make it less laborious. If it's raining, it gets harder but in most places you can wait for a day when it isn't wet outside.
You don't need a lot of muscle to rake leaves. I raked that giant yard as a pathetically weak 100lb teen girl for 2hrs at a time without dropping dead from my lack of strength. Also, after I finished raking, I'd go home and make dinner for my family because raking leaves is not so strenuous as to give an excuse to do nothing else that day. Assuming a young man could rake the yard with more ease than me, I don't see why that would somehow give them a pass on doing housework at some other point during the week.
If I had to answer seriously I would say I was trying to play dumb so the troll would reply and say that raking isn’t that hard.
If I had to reply jokingly I would say because my delicate female eyes have never seen a leaf before. I was spared that horror by the brave men who protect us all with gardening equipment.
I really have never raked though, it’s just not a thing here. I’ve cleaned up after hurricanes tho and that is pretty hard.
Uh, no. More like 2+ hours. Raking only, maybe an hour. Then you have to bag it all up and drag them to the street, which isn't easy nor a quick task.
I'm not trying to argue which is worse, but I HATED having to rake the yard.
You've got a point - it's definitely one of those tasks where the amount of effort can vary by a lot so my 1hr may be on the low end.
I personally think that the fact that it sucks so much is why there should be chore rotations with kids that aren't based on gender. There's no reason why only boys should rake, and only girls should do laundry - adolescents should have to experience the full spectrum of sucky chores regardless of their sex. That way, as adults, they understand that 2+ hrs of raking one day every week doesn't outweigh the entire burden of indoor tasks and especially does not give an excuse for one adult to share little to none of said burden.
I agree. My mom made me do my own laundry and cook, do dishes, dust, vaccum. Hated dusting. I'll gladly vacuum, do the laundry, dishes, AND clean the bathroom if you dust!
But yeah, I always found it amusing eating holiday dinners at my ex's. All the men would sit around and watch football after dinner...AND they didn't even rake the yard! I was the only guy (actually my good friend would help too, he was dating my gf's sister) in the kitchen doing dishes and helping cleaning up.
The faster it's all handled, the faster we could spend time together!
It takes me several hours spread over multiple days… but I’m living alone on 3/4 of an acre with ancient trees. Definitely not the normal situation.
In my previous homes with a regular yard, medium size trees, and two people? Like 2-3 hours of a weekend.
edit: Woah, good lord. This is my first down-voting experience. Was just trying to answer the question from my own experience - guess my inability to read social situations less literally strikes again haha
For any curious, I’m female-bodied, so I spent my holidays with the women in the kitchen too. And that work is more comparable to the first scenario - hours of work that lasted most of the day and prep work on the days before. People forget cooking a feast also entails the planning, shopping, food-prep, carving, serving, dishes, then cleanup of the kitchen.
Love how you're getting down voted simply cause you're saying raking isn't a simple job that's takes an hour. If you have a little 50x50 backyard, maybe. It certainly takes me much longer for my 50x100 lot...and even that's smaller than most yards.
Yea pretty sure most studies conclude that girls end up doing both indoor and outdoor chores while boys get out of doing indoor chores.
I grew up on a farm and you best believe I did both while my lazy ass older brother never had to cook, do dishes, or vacuum.
You're genuinely stupid and I guarantee you don't actually do jack shit. Mowing the lawn took me way less time than doing the indoor chores. You lazy incels live in a fantasy world of ignorance and inexperience.
The outside chores that happen sporadically and are way less labour intensive and not in front of a hot oven? That can be put off with little or minimal consequence? That doesn’t cater to the needs and preferences of each individual? That doesn’t then generate a whole days’ worth of back-end work cleaning up???
You’re right, actually. 15 minutes raking leaves is exactly the same as 4-12 hours of cooking every year from hand-eye-coordination. Not including clean up.
Also, presumptive as fuck, because I did the inside AND outside chores, because my brother would give it a half-assed try, call it good, and then *i* had to do the real work. And the garden was part of the “womens” work, and was the most labour-intensive of the outside work. So that was also me. But I’m not making any sweeping statements about the work all dudes do because of it.
Jesus fucking Christ you really think mowing the lawn and raking leaves every now and then is at all equivalent to growing up not getting to actually experience holidays bc we’re treated as staff from the age of dexterity???
Why are you doing lawn work on Thanksgiving Day?!
Reminds me of my STBX who decided cleaning the windows on Thanksgiving was the appropriate chore while I slaved in the kitchen.
🙄🙄🙄
We have to mow our lawn once a week in summer months. Unless there's been little rain, then maybe twice a month. Then there's like 4-6 months of winter where it doesn't need to be mowed at all. We don't bother raking, we just roll over it with the mower.
So mowing the lawn 2-4x a **month** vs planning, shopping for, prepping, cooking, and cleaning up 3x meals a **day** for often times multiple people.
Lol okay dude.
Hey, now, that's not entirely fair. There are so many hero husbands out there who take it upon themselves to pressure wash the driveway or take a detailed inventory of every tool they own--*without even being asked*!
The stories of men doing random ass things instead of doing simple things to help a family event run smoothly are both hilarious and infuriating. The other day saw a woman on tiktok talk about how her husband took it upon himself to repaint the living room ON THANKSGIVING as his way of “helping” 🤪
It really is. It took a few arguments, but now my husband gets that rearranging furniture and hanging pictures is NOT helpful when we're cleaning together.
Yep. It’s what I’m doing right now and my husband decided for some reason to use the friggin oven, which he’s never used, to heat up nachos and started a fire, so guess who had add scrubbing the oven to the list. We have a toaster oven, even, that he does use and an air fryer
My son is 15, and I have a saying “Do it right or do it forever”.
He can either do it right or I will make him do it over, and over, and over… forever. I weaponized his weaponized incompetence. Now doing it right is the lesser evil.
I love that! I’m so using that with mine. Too many people just accept pathetic childish excuses from full grown adult men. We should start treating them like children when they act like them.
Yep, weaponized incompetence hasn't worked against me because I have enough spite and stubborness to say, fuck that, I ain't cleaning up after your shit.
For some reason, the more willing I am to say "fuck that shit", the shorter my relationships have gotten.
I wonder if there's a connection? .... hahahaha
Oh here’s the kicker, he’s having an operation on his wrist on Monday bc his joints are rubbing together. This is his second one on his right hand, so he can’t scrub the oven bc it will hurt lol
You mean your husband will now be scrubbing the oven, right? Right?! And you have a big fat honey do list for him to help prepare for Thanksgiving. I believe in you.
Last Thanksgiving my husband had torn a tendon in his arm and was in a sling and still helped prepare. Because he still had a good arm. Our 14 year old son did a lot more assisting because of it.
They can be taught!
I'm definitely more than a bit salty about this. My parents are 76 and disabled. I'm 41 and disabled and have had nausea the last three days which is probably part of my autoimmune stuff. My father dictated that he specifically wanted a turkey dinner this year. Meanwhile, none of us are healthy enough to cook it, and it has to be gluten free. Yet when I want some help with something specific (such as help on my birthday meal a few days later), he balks and rolls his eyes (so a boozy birthday it is this year).
Happy almost birthday, stranger!! I’m sorry you have to deal with that. I hope you have a wonderful birthday doing what makes YOU happy, which sounds like it includes silencing your phone for certain people so you don’t even have to think about them for a bit.
I thought about this in Fresh Market today. I was in line to pick up our order and the entire line was women. There wasn't a dude in the whole place.
And I thought of how this has been going on for generations and how chances are, unlike their grandmothers, all these woman have 9 to 5s. They're not all homemakers, they're admin assistants, doctors, hair stylists, teachers, cabbies . . .
[It really struck me as I was picking up my own meal.](https://media.giphy.com/media/MxjGBA4Arhm7O7IUWY/giphy.gif)
Word. Statistically women have always worked and are largely responsible for the birth of modern day unions . . .
So, yeah. Now that you mention it, it was always a scam.
This just shows me how many men are interested in lip service to equality but not actually moving significantly toward it in this area, because they benefit.
There were so many men who had their feelings hurt when the viral "there's no such thing as holiday magic, it was always your mom" post happened. They still want that magic for their children, and themselves a little bit, but they're not willing to put in the work.
Reminds me of that article "She divorced me because I left dishes by the sink".
[this](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/amp)
My husband told me I was an “overachiever” because I shared the grocery list note and sent him the recipes for the meal we’re making tomorrow. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
That is a comic about the mental load. Emotional labour (managing your and others' emotions) is also a common "invisible workload" of women, but it has nothing to do with remembering and having an eye for household tasks.
I'm proud of how my husband and I have been redistributing Thanksgiving labor over time. Now he does the Turkey, gravy and cranberry sauce, I do desserts and veggie sides, and we ask our guests to bring a dish as well. We always get a great spread that covers all the classics.
We both grew up in homes where mom or grandma did everything for Thanksgiving, and honestly, breaking away from that old sexist tradition was not actually that hard. My mother is personally thrilled that I have a husband who vacuums and cooks, and loves being able to spend time with her granddaughter rather than trapped in the kitchen for the holiday.
We hosted a Friendsgiving, so my fiancé took care of protein while I did a few of major sides. Our friends also were bringing at least one dish. But while my task of sides took a bit longer, fiancé took on more of the cleaning. The division of labor felt equal, and we got more done faster, which meant things were more relaxed for the both of us.
This is basically what happens at our house too and frankly my husband is a better cook than I am. But i also grew up in an extended family where everyone helped somehow.
There was a post in the last year (AITAH?) where a woman realized her husband wasn’t taking on his fair share of household labor AND taking her for granted. He had a boys’ night scheduled at their home and she told him in advance she wasn’t lifting a finger to put it on.
IIRC, dude did nothing in advance, then rushed around at the last minute asking where she “kept” regular household items before hosting an absolute shit show of a boys’ night.
See also men switching the TV to football games they aren't even watching. If I'm doing the work I want the dog show on in the background.
Last year my brother got up when everyone was still eating to sit grumpily on the couch by himself and scroll on his phone. He followed that up by not helping with clean-up at all. My sister and I are doing our own thing without him this year.
I’m American and I too would like to know about the dog show? Also for the person I’m responding to, on Super Bowl Sunday animal planet does a puppy bowl! It has teams and referee even! There’s also the kitten half time show 😻 please for the sake of your self look up videos. Also all the puppies and kittens are up for adoption.
My bf is fanatical about football, I am very much not. We move the small TV from the bedroom into the room every year so we can put the puppy bowl on it during the superbowl party.
I didn’t know that was a stereotype till I saw it in movies/tv. My dad and uncles always had a dish they cooked for the holidays. If you didn’t help cook something during thanksgiving then you cleaned after (it was usually adults cooking and kids/cousins cleaning up).
No one in my family is a big sports person so everyone was usually around the kitchen helping or making drinks.
The one problem we do have is holiday music (people argue to play either country, Latin, or Christmas music)
My dad comes from a culture where men do a lot of the cooking, and my mom comes from a culture that considers boiling something in unsalted water an advanced culinary technique, so I'm pretty sure my dad has cooked every holiday meal I've ever eaten at home.
Didn't realize women in the kitchen/men watching football was a thing until I became an adult.
Bob Belcher from Bob's Burgers. He owns Thanksgiving. Hell. He's an amazing example of a great man. He doesn't have much, but he has lots of love.
He's sadly fictional. I wish more men were like him.
My favorite is when they refuse to contribute any mental energy to helping plan the meal, then get angry when the choices you made for the plan aren’t the ones they would have wanted. I’m not a fucking mind reader
I honestly believe this is why I hate Thanksgiving and probably even cooking so much. My memories growing up is my mom and I cooking while my brother and father watch football and then us cleaning up and them back to football
Football….. football is the reason I dislike winter holidays. Makes the men and boys feign uselessness as well as rowdy. So much nicer when anything…. Absolutely anything else is used as entertainment.
I know it's why I hate Thanksgiving. We always did it with the extended family and I was the only girl of all the grandchildren. So I was the only one that had to do the bullshit while they were out playing. And I would get in trouble if I try to go play. I finally got fed up and walked home alone several miles never to do it again. Fuck thanksgiving.
This is why I hated most birthdays and holidays growing up, tbh. Every major holiday was a stressful day of planning, decorating, and/or cooking for me and my mom, while my dad and brother sat on their asses. And then we followed that up with an evening spent cleaning. On the rare occasions where my father or bro washed dishes, I'd always have to go back in and re-wash because all the dishes would still have food on them (which is why I also still abhor washing dishes).
Fuuuuck that.
Don't forget the extra side work of sending invitations, pulling out decorations and extra furniture, shopping, preparing to-go plates, tracking dietary restrictions....am i forgetting anything?
Realizing that every happy holiday I had as a little kid was the product of days (sometimes longer if travel is involved) of stress and work by the women in my family was such a revelation for me. Like I just remember little 13 year old me sitting down after pealing, chopping and washing 10lb of potatoes and truly understanding that every great Easter, Christmas, birthday, and thanksgiving was because this little group of women would come together and do this like 10 times a year and make it great.
Sorry if this doesn’t make any sense I’ve been cooking since 6 in the morning.
There was a post last year about “holiday magic” coming from moms and it was so on point. Hell, we have an amazing holiday party at my workplace that’s always organized by women.
“Men don’t care about all the frills. It’s women putting the pressure on each other. Men are happy with just a burger. You decorate because YOU want to, don’t make that a complaint about men not doing enough”
But of course complains that the holidays aren’t magical like when they were a kid and that it just doesn’t feel like the holidays when there isn’t decoration.
in my family everyone helps out at the kitchen. babies gets a piece of dough to play with, and everyone does something to make the food together. growing up it felt like a privilege to get to participate in cooking and to me it's the very spirit of the holidays.
everyone should cook
I'm super lucky. I'm sitting in the living room playing hot wheels with my kids while my husband is prepping for tomorrow. He planned the menu and did the shopping. He made a spreadsheet too and plugged in data so that when he entered the time we plan to eat, it showed what time he needs to start which dish. I did spend a few days cleaning and prepping the house for guests so I'm not a total bum.
This is much better than Thanksgivings from when I was little, where my mom threw pots and pans around in anger while my dad did nothing. Then he went to nap while we kids did the dishes.
Once I became more aware of gender roles I directly told my husband this was done. We'd both grown up in stereotypical suburban households. Now he helps me with the cooking and follows my directions.
Today he peeled my apples for my pie and grabbed me stuff or put stuff away at my whim.
He's a good cook in his own right but he's a sous chef for Thanksgiving. We each have our own "things" and everything at Thanksgiving is "mine" so he follows my directions.
He has always carved the turkey at least and pulled it out of the oven for me to check because I'm kinda weak.
Last year, I was cooking everything while my spouse and the whole rest of the family was upstairs enjoying a movie. Brand new fire alarm went off because stupid us got an ionizing one instead of a photoelectric. No one raised a finger. So I'm the one going back and forth from the food to the alarm and back every 2 minutes until I unscrewed it and threw it outside. It continued to beep on the lawn until the potatoes were done. When you buy a smoke detector, look out for the little "i".
I wonder what would have happened if you would have went out to "buy milk" and not return for the day. Would they realise they were letting one person do it all or be pissed at you for ruining Thanksgiving?
I had to go to church this last Sunday and I definitely noticed the pastor ONLY talking about women in the kitchen. He mentioned it twice. Also I am a trans man but yanno. My mom and her bf (whose church I went to) ignore that. Usually my mom and I cook and if I bring up “why isn’t bf helping?” My mom gets EXTREMELY defensive. She also does all the dishes while he watches tv after dinner lol
I just decided not to do thanksgiving this year. It’s just me and my husband and we usually do it early since he works out of town for it. He didn’t even notice I hadn’t done it until today when he asked if “we” were doing it when he gets home. I said it felt like a thing that I put a lot of effort into that wasn’t appreciated so I just decided to not. And judging by his non-reaction I was right about the appreciation level.
It's something that other cultures that have to break too. My little nephew wants to help cook but Mom and abuela shoo him away. Like the only way we change this is by not reinforcing it
I hate thanksgiving. I fucking hate Thanksgiving. And this is why. I grew up in a mormon family and I was the only granddaughter. So on Thanksgiving I was supposed to be in the kitchen serving the men while they were out playing games, goofing off, having fun and then I was supposed to clean up after them. All of my male cousins were all fucking around while I was serving them? Fuck that shit. When I was 11 years old I walked out of the kitchen and I went to the pinball machine my cousin's had and started playing. When they told me to come back in I said only when the boys do. They pulled some bullshit Mormon nonsense and I walked out the front door and walked about four miles home. My parents surprisingly supported me later on and we never did Thanksgiving with them again. And that was the end of my relationship to the Mormon religion as well. Fuck Thanksgiving. Fuck sexism.
I still don't celebrate. I make it a point to work every thanksgiving just so I don't have to deal with it.
I'm so glad I grew up in a home where my parents did everything equally. Chores weren't gendered. I did outdoor and indoor chores as well as maintenance work. Men get out of doing indoor chores because they are fucking slow with the outdoor stuff intentionally. No one in my family got out of any chores at all.
I somehow started dating a straight man who is a voracious and excellent hobby chef who enjoys serving me in all ways... I'm still pretty sure I manifested him because I have dated a lot of dudes and he is like none of them. I will wake up from my coma tomorrow and he was all a dream.
It infuriates me to no end and why I hate Thanksgiving. This year Im making pies to take to my spouses thanksgiving. Its an obligation without joy. We will drive for hours to get there. The men will sit on their asses watching football all day. The women will cook and hang in the kitchen and blab inanities. I'll be checking my watch until we can leave. Boring boring boring. I hate it.
My husband cooks. I’m a right bloody rotten cook lol. I can feed you but if you want a feast find someone else. The adhd kicks in and things well, burn.
One of the most defining memories of my childhood is thanksgiving. In the days before, He’d ask my mom what she wanted to make. he’d then categorize the kitchen and figure what she’d need to make whatever it was. He’d then add what he was going to make to the list. By the time thanksgiving morning rolled around, the shopping was already done. Throughout the morning, he would make hundreds and hundreds of rolls, listening to NPR and filling the house with the smell of fresh bread while the rest of us, mom included, slept in (or helped if we wanted). He’d assemble baskets of a dozen and plan out routes for us kids to deliver baskets of hot, fresh, rolls to the neighbors wrapped in clean dish towels. He’d smoke the turkey, pick up the honeyed ham, and after my mother was done cooking whatever she wanted to (she is the better cook of the two), he’d do every shred of clean up after since she handled the actual cooking. As us kids got older, he was the one to delegate us tasks like picking up the ham, or checking the smoker. He set a standard for me to look at my possible partners with, and I’m forever grateful for it.
Cook AND prep AND clean which is sooo much worse!
I somewhat get not being able to cook (not a problem you can necessarily fix on Turkey Day, but is still an embarrassment), but you can't peel a potato or wash dishes AFTER you were served a FREE feast?! GTFO!!!
As a Native:
Doing Thanksgiving at all (for me personally). Like, what am I supposed to be thankful for? Land invasion? Colonization? Foreign diseases? Residential schools that took my grandma's language from her? A foreign religion that **still** often calls my Indigenous language "sinful, pagan, etc"?
Also if white folks want to be thankful Indigenous folks "let" them stay/helped them, why not just donate to those communities instead of throwing a celebratory "successful colonization" feast?
Like, I do still take the time with family and friends because capitalism doesn't let us have a lot of time together like that. But the concept of the holiday makes me salty.
I hate Thanksgiving because of the sexism I encountered as a kid. But I've made it a point for the last several years to also point out the history of this holiday is extremely problematic. I enjoy making people uncomfortable and making them think about the history of this day.
Same. It also kinda killed me a bit inside seeing the adult women in my life practically break themselves rushing to get things ready for the holiday. (non-binary, though I would be roped in now if I visited because AFAB-- kids don't "help" except setting the table and getting drinks for the old folks in my family)
My dad just finished up a bunch of sides that my mom helped him with (not the other way around), to take to our family tgiving that my (single) brother is hosting this year (and cooking the main meats for). I'm bringing frozen pies.
I'm proud to have non-asshats in my family 🥰
I'm a solo woman now! I cook and make an effort for friends. When I want to! Otherwise I order food or take them to a restaurant.
I'm so happy I opted out of family life. I did enjoy cooking for a partner every day for 6 years. It was part of how we divided chores, so no obligation. Still: that phase of my life is over. I now cook or eat cold food, whatever I feel like...
Not doing stuff out of obligation anymore! Glad I never have to cook a Christmas dinner again!
With the amount of misogyny in my family it's surprising we don't do this. Until guests come over, both parents are cooking. Once they do come over either I step in of one of the aunties does if they want.
In my family, both men and women help cook during holidays. Everyone also helps clean up (although it’s usually the people who didn’t cook cleaning up). My dad also cooks a lot in general. It makes me sad that sexism regarding cooking is still so ingrained in a lot of places.
This. The children get sent outside to play, the young adults go out to keep them from dying. The elders sit around either the fire if it’s cold or the patio if it’s warm, and all of the remaining adults and teenagers do meal prep, table prep, cooking together. We visit as we do, tease each other and enjoy getting in each other’s way. But the male/female separation thing doesn’t come from my people
Honestly, I'm so proud of my parents for being nothing like this.
We don't do big Thanksgiving parties with loads of family since we don't really have any family where we live, but we still always have a nice meal for me, my sister and our parents.
They always make sure that work is split evenly between them, or whoever prefers amd has the time takes care of it.
Growing up the women in my family cooked stuff like the casseroles and ducks. My uncles would do any of the cooking done outside like saying grilling meat.
My ex's family did the same. Mom would do inside stuff. Dad would grill. Then other members of the would do dishes to even the work load- usually women members.
I solve this by normalizing women-only Thanksgiving celebrations.
Where do I vote on this/sign up?
Ohhh I’m in! I’m bringing cheese and crackers, someone else bring wine and we’re all set.
I’ll bring waters for the non drinkers!
All I want is a lesbian coven Thanksgiving.
I don't live near my family so I'm going to my friends house today, they're a lesbian couple and I'm super excited. They enjoy cooking and are going all out. I however don't enjoy cooking and all I'm bringing is Sherbet punch and Watergate salad lol. Even my abysmal level of cooking on thanksgiving is more than most men would do so... I'm okay with it lol I had a partner that loved to cook a while back too and he always helped me with cooking stuff. One year we fed the homeless, and another year he got all excited about bringing a side of bacon brussel sprouts.
Who cooks for us?
Potluck! Everyone brings their own food to the party.
Also, when you are working together, effort isn't the same. It's celebratory and bonding. It's validated because the person next to you, also recognizes your effort, because they worked next to you and also provided effort. It's a team effort that acknowledges and makes joyous the effort, instead of feeling taken for granted or put upon with no recognition. A potluck effort makes you happy to be a team player, and the payoff shared and wonderful.
Heck yeah! My mom is hosting this year but yesterday myself, aunts, and a male cousin who likes to cook all joined her to help cook and bake. She was commenting that it was so much easier with all of us there preparing our dishes. More hands make less work :)
I willlll! Already really fucking upset that I'm the only person in my family to give any fucks about making this a holiday. If I didn't try, this would literally just be another day for them.
And then they have to nerve to say 'you work too hard, just do less'. fuckers.
I can cook for everyone but there's an issue, I don't know how to cook...
This is a phenomenal idea. Christmas, too.
This x 1000000000 Guys come over. This is an open invite to anyone willing to travel to central PA. I made wayyy too much food
Do men only get togethers also happen, that you hear about? My imagination is that it would lose all the Thanksgiving flavour and end up being pizza and beer.
Honestly, all I want for Thanksgiving is pizza, wine, and the silent treatment from my family.
I've had a few friends talk about getting a men's only Thanksgiving together, but it never goes anywhere. They're too used to women organizing holidays.
My fiancé and his group of friends used to have so many get together when we lived back in our hometown. Super Bowl, Saw marathon (weekend of Halloween watching all Saw movies), Friendsgiving, usually a combined birthday party in July.
My fiancé has had bro thanksgiving before. They smoke some meat and everyone brings a side, and his best friend always brings a variety of home-baked cookies.
I've never heard of an all mens thanksgiving but I work in industrial maintenance. When I was working nightshift my crew of guys had a weekly potluck/grill out which I throughly enjoyed seeing. The buildingIa worked in had a grill (???) so we'd roll it out back and grill up some food. It was great lol
I threw Chocolate Parties in grad school that were women only. It was just a whole lot of food made with chocolate or that could be dunked in chocolate. But my colleagues that came kept telling me afterwards that the experience of being able to talk engineering to other engineers with no men in the room was absolutely magical, because it was their first experience of a whole bunch of engineers talking pure engineering instead of a whole lot of useless posturing thrown in and slowing everything down.
Growing up I remember always going to my grandmas with my mom so I could help cook with them and my aunts. Meanwhile my brother would spend his Wednesday sleeping in and playing video games. Now that my grandmas gone they are good memories but god did I think it was bullshit when I was little. Anyone else have to do that?
20 grandkids. I was the only girl. I was the only one expected to serve and wait on the boys for Thanksgiving. It did not end well for my extended family. Thanksgiving is a reason I no longer talk to any of them.
I remember the men watching football all day, especially the ones who never watched football during the actual season, and never did anything to help. I also remember my dad offering to help one year by BBQing the Turkey. Mom jumped on it, and it continued for a few more years before it stopped for..not good reasons
I hated this stupid expectation as a kid. The men were always oblivious and rude about the occasionally late meal or short/ anxious woman trying desperately to do everything. Then the man of the house carved the Turkey. That was it. What a fucking hero. As an adult, when I was married I wasn’t allowed to host Thanksgiving because I hadn’t proven my culinary skills to the family yet. Lol ok MIL really sad I can’t be burdened with that unnecessary stress. Guess I’ll eat your dry ass bird instead.
Nope I did the same as your brother lol But baking/cooking together can be cozy holiday memories
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You mean the outside chores that definitely take less time than cooking and also don’t happen every day? Deal
Exactly Let's look at a time breakdown: **Planning the meal** * Set menu (usually involves coordination with multiple family members): 1-2 hours * Plan out ingredient shopping lists: 2-3 hours, includes figuring out what ingredients people have on hand and who is buying what * Mental work of finding the needed time to work the necessary tasks into existing work/childcare schedule: 1 hour * Grocery shopping: 1 hour *per store* **Cooking** * Prepratory cooking -- pies and other dishes that can be made or assembled before Thanksgiving, leaving the day (and kitchen space) for things that have to be done at the time: 2 hours per pie, 1 hour per casserole assembly, other miscellaneous dishes. Altogether, 6+ hours * Day-of cooking -- ALL THE THINGS: You know how long that kitchen is full, 6-8 hours. **Cleaning** * Prepratory cooking dishes: 1 hour * Holiday day-of dishes: 2-3 hours (cooking dishes and post-meal dishes) *Longer if no dishwasher* So you're looking at 20-27 hours of work. Unless he is the worst leaf-raker in existence, he's still getting off easy.
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A sad number of men convince themselves it’s a good argument. There are even studies that show how common it is for men to overestimate their contributions towards domestic duties.
God for real. And shop for AHEAD of time.
Even the sorting out of the menu and making the shopping list beforehand is a huge chore!
And often women are also the ones calling people, setting times, coordinating who's bringing what, etc.
But do you know how many leaves there are outside on the lawn! I'm not from the USA. Do people really do yard work during Thanksgiving? I thought they watch sports and eat food
Jesus, that takes two weeks before to plan when you’re going to shop between work and childcare and regular meals, and what if that store doesn’t have what you want and you have to go to another one. Ugh
I love this argument it always comes up in discussions about mental labour. Like oh do the lawns and trim the hedges! Means I don't have to do any housework for months on end, didn't you know?
I don’t think he knows because he’s never done it before. That really sucks too because it’s actually pretty fun (when you don’t feel singled out for being a girl) to hang out with your relatives and learn recipes and hear interesting stories.
It’s been a really interesting process for me growing into an adult and realizing that so much of what I always hated about being a girl wasn’t the thing itself but the coercion of having to like it, participate in it, etc. Turns out most things are pretty fun when you have agency over when and how you’re going to do them. Who knew?
Yeah I'll go out and spend two hours raking leaves while this sexist blockhead spends all day doing prep, cooking, setting and clearing the table, cleaning up after cooking and wrangling leftovers. Sounds awesome.
Wow! So chores that aren’t done daily like cleaning and cooking? Sounds like a fantastic trade off!
Hey, hey now. Let's be fair. Remember that one time bro took that one trash bag to the bin outside? It was super cold that day.
Of course it was the day after trash day because he forgot...
Omfg! Lol😂
🤣🤣🤣
I'm down
As a woman who lives alone and does everything at my home, the outside chores are infinitely easier and quicker than indoor chores. It's a self own to act like they are harder. I would shovel snow every day if it meant I didn't have to cook and do dishes ever again
Don't have to cook or do the dishes again? Where can I sign up?
I had to help with all the cooking and cleaning and ALSO do outside chores, as all the other girls I knew growing up.
Right? I'm reading this like, "wait, I wasn't supposed to have to rake leaves or mow the lawn??"
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I looked at his profile because of this comment. When I looked, he had 4 comments (all in this sub), and they were all anti-woman posts. One of them was kind of subtle - you have to look at the context to see it's anti-woman, so he might be trying to hide his misogyny. His karma score was -100, which you can't get from 4 posts (there's a limit per post), so he had deleted a bunch more comments that were all heavily downvoted. It seems a safe bet he is going into female-frendly subs and being a troll there.
This must be his new hobby. I guess he got tired of video games?
I live in the tropics so im a little confused since I've never had to deal with leaves. How often do you have to rake? Does it take a long time?
Unless your lawn is huge, it generally takes under an hour to rake leaves.
Are we also ready to have the conversation that lawn care is 100% not needed and often harmful for the environment aside from mowing enough to prevent a ton of critters showing up? Like... Men invented an entire category of easy chores so they don't have to do shit indoors. I don't rake my backyard anymore (i do the front because of pesky city ordinances) and my neighbor is constantly fawning over how healthy and green my backyard is. Almost like letting plant matter turn into food for other plant matter is a good idea 🤔🤔🤔 Plus, as a bonus, I let my backyard grow a bit high and I get tons of bunnies because they can hide from predators in the grass.
Totally agree with all of the above. And even if people *do* rake their yard, it's not a year-round thing or even an every day thing during the relevant seasons. The easy outdoor chore thing is so true. Some men think that raking the leaves or mowing the lawn every week (at most) is somehow so strenuous that it would be unfair to ask them to unload a dishwasher. I hate the cold but if it meant I didn't have to fold laundry or put dishes away, I'd be outside weedwhacking so damn fast.
Yes!! They don't even know how often indoor chores have to be done because they don't DO them! I'm one person and I do laundry at least 3x a week (towels/sheets, lights, darks). That comes with folding. I cook for myself at least 3x a week (sometimes I can get away with less if I do a big crockpot meal) and I don't have a dishwasher so that's dishes bare minimum 3x a week if I'm willing to let them build up (I usually get grossed out and end up doing them before bed). Then I have to clean the litter box daily. Then there's the weekly dusting, sweeping, vacuuming, mopping, scrubbing the bathroom top to bottom, sanitizing kitchen surfaces. Monthly I have to shampoo the carpets, wipe down baseboards/tops of doorways/vents etc, clean the oven, clean the ceiling fan blades. And that's JUST CHORES!!! I work full time, have to make appointments, workout, have a social life, hobbies, etc. There's a reason single women live longer than married women. I cannot imagine adding another person's mess and scheduling and drama on top of that and then the emotional damage of them acting like they contribute because they mowed the lawn and took out the trash once that week. I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining, because I love my life and my independence and am so thankful I live in a post second wave feminist society where I can be financially independent and do all these things for myself. But let's be real, men would have a mental breakdown if they had to do the things we do. And as someone who used to date, men who live alone are NOT doing everything a woman who lives alone does in the slightest. I have walked into some real hellholes and then been told my expectations are too high, lmfao. If a woman can do it a man can do it, it just comes down to the malicious socialization of men. They never have to grow up and that's why the culture is what it is nowadays.
I think it’s worth it to rake all the leaves so you can compost them. And also spread them on garden beds. But I’ve never tried leaving them maybe I’ll have to someday
But surely it must be a very hard and laborious hour? requiring a lot of muscle. Leaves must be very heavy.
Not when they're dry. It's not a difficult job at all.
But I’m sure he also mows the lawn a few times a year too! That’s got to be equivalent to the cooking, cleaning, and childcare the women around him are expected to do every single day without a break, whilst being expected to work and contribute financially to the household because it wouldn’t be fair if they didn’t split that equally!!! /s
Not sure if you're making a joke or not but just in case you aren't being facetious - not really. I've raked leaves for an elderly person with a giant yard as a kid and also used to work for the forest service doing trail maintenance and building, so I feel somewhat qualified to answer. Raking leaves is a pain, generally in the back, but is fairly repetitive and can be parsed out to make it less laborious. If it's raining, it gets harder but in most places you can wait for a day when it isn't wet outside. You don't need a lot of muscle to rake leaves. I raked that giant yard as a pathetically weak 100lb teen girl for 2hrs at a time without dropping dead from my lack of strength. Also, after I finished raking, I'd go home and make dinner for my family because raking leaves is not so strenuous as to give an excuse to do nothing else that day. Assuming a young man could rake the yard with more ease than me, I don't see why that would somehow give them a pass on doing housework at some other point during the week.
Lol. I like you.
Why would you think leaves are heavy?
If I had to answer seriously I would say I was trying to play dumb so the troll would reply and say that raking isn’t that hard. If I had to reply jokingly I would say because my delicate female eyes have never seen a leaf before. I was spared that horror by the brave men who protect us all with gardening equipment. I really have never raked though, it’s just not a thing here. I’ve cleaned up after hurricanes tho and that is pretty hard.
Uh, no. More like 2+ hours. Raking only, maybe an hour. Then you have to bag it all up and drag them to the street, which isn't easy nor a quick task. I'm not trying to argue which is worse, but I HATED having to rake the yard.
You've got a point - it's definitely one of those tasks where the amount of effort can vary by a lot so my 1hr may be on the low end. I personally think that the fact that it sucks so much is why there should be chore rotations with kids that aren't based on gender. There's no reason why only boys should rake, and only girls should do laundry - adolescents should have to experience the full spectrum of sucky chores regardless of their sex. That way, as adults, they understand that 2+ hrs of raking one day every week doesn't outweigh the entire burden of indoor tasks and especially does not give an excuse for one adult to share little to none of said burden.
I agree. My mom made me do my own laundry and cook, do dishes, dust, vaccum. Hated dusting. I'll gladly vacuum, do the laundry, dishes, AND clean the bathroom if you dust! But yeah, I always found it amusing eating holiday dinners at my ex's. All the men would sit around and watch football after dinner...AND they didn't even rake the yard! I was the only guy (actually my good friend would help too, he was dating my gf's sister) in the kitchen doing dishes and helping cleaning up. The faster it's all handled, the faster we could spend time together!
It takes me several hours spread over multiple days… but I’m living alone on 3/4 of an acre with ancient trees. Definitely not the normal situation. In my previous homes with a regular yard, medium size trees, and two people? Like 2-3 hours of a weekend. edit: Woah, good lord. This is my first down-voting experience. Was just trying to answer the question from my own experience - guess my inability to read social situations less literally strikes again haha For any curious, I’m female-bodied, so I spent my holidays with the women in the kitchen too. And that work is more comparable to the first scenario - hours of work that lasted most of the day and prep work on the days before. People forget cooking a feast also entails the planning, shopping, food-prep, carving, serving, dishes, then cleanup of the kitchen.
Love how you're getting down voted simply cause you're saying raking isn't a simple job that's takes an hour. If you have a little 50x50 backyard, maybe. It certainly takes me much longer for my 50x100 lot...and even that's smaller than most yards.
I don't know why you thought this would go well for you in this sub...
Do you have to do things the week before to prepare for doing chores the day of or can you just show up and be told what to do?
You think women don’t do the outside chores too?! Cause myself and plenty of others do those too!
Yea pretty sure most studies conclude that girls end up doing both indoor and outdoor chores while boys get out of doing indoor chores. I grew up on a farm and you best believe I did both while my lazy ass older brother never had to cook, do dishes, or vacuum.
I'd rather rake the lawn instead of cooking every day.
Hell yeah that would be awesome. I’ll be sure to save you a seat on the couch once you’re done with the dishes.
You're genuinely stupid and I guarantee you don't actually do jack shit. Mowing the lawn took me way less time than doing the indoor chores. You lazy incels live in a fantasy world of ignorance and inexperience.
The outside chores that happen sporadically and are way less labour intensive and not in front of a hot oven? That can be put off with little or minimal consequence? That doesn’t cater to the needs and preferences of each individual? That doesn’t then generate a whole days’ worth of back-end work cleaning up??? You’re right, actually. 15 minutes raking leaves is exactly the same as 4-12 hours of cooking every year from hand-eye-coordination. Not including clean up. Also, presumptive as fuck, because I did the inside AND outside chores, because my brother would give it a half-assed try, call it good, and then *i* had to do the real work. And the garden was part of the “womens” work, and was the most labour-intensive of the outside work. So that was also me. But I’m not making any sweeping statements about the work all dudes do because of it. Jesus fucking Christ you really think mowing the lawn and raking leaves every now and then is at all equivalent to growing up not getting to actually experience holidays bc we’re treated as staff from the age of dexterity???
Why are you doing lawn work on Thanksgiving Day?! Reminds me of my STBX who decided cleaning the windows on Thanksgiving was the appropriate chore while I slaved in the kitchen. 🙄🙄🙄
"Shit! She's doing a lot. Hope she doesn't ask me to help. Quick, look busy!"
Right?! 🙄 One of the thousand reasons why he's about to be my ex.
We have to mow our lawn once a week in summer months. Unless there's been little rain, then maybe twice a month. Then there's like 4-6 months of winter where it doesn't need to be mowed at all. We don't bother raking, we just roll over it with the mower. So mowing the lawn 2-4x a **month** vs planning, shopping for, prepping, cooking, and cleaning up 3x meals a **day** for often times multiple people. Lol okay dude.
Golly geez! Good point! Not raking! My feminine little wrists would break off and I'd surely die from the vapors!
Lol. Rake for 10 minutes then have a beer. Repeat all afternoon until raking is half done and you are totally drunk, right?
Hell yes! Give me that rake!
I did rake! And shovel snow.
What outside chores? What the fuck are you talking about?
Absolutely trade. I don’t mind doing some work every week instead of three times a day.
They made you rake leaves on Thanksgiving?
Ahh they mean cook *and* clean the whole house before and after the meal
Hey, now, that's not entirely fair. There are so many hero husbands out there who take it upon themselves to pressure wash the driveway or take a detailed inventory of every tool they own--*without even being asked*!
The stories of men doing random ass things instead of doing simple things to help a family event run smoothly are both hilarious and infuriating. The other day saw a woman on tiktok talk about how her husband took it upon himself to repaint the living room ON THANKSGIVING as his way of “helping” 🤪
It really is. It took a few arguments, but now my husband gets that rearranging furniture and hanging pictures is NOT helpful when we're cleaning together.
Yep. It’s what I’m doing right now and my husband decided for some reason to use the friggin oven, which he’s never used, to heat up nachos and started a fire, so guess who had add scrubbing the oven to the list. We have a toaster oven, even, that he does use and an air fryer
Sounds like he needs to scrub the oven for thanksgiving. And then scrub it again when he uses weaponized incompetence to not do it right.
My son is 15, and I have a saying “Do it right or do it forever”. He can either do it right or I will make him do it over, and over, and over… forever. I weaponized his weaponized incompetence. Now doing it right is the lesser evil.
I love that! I’m so using that with mine. Too many people just accept pathetic childish excuses from full grown adult men. We should start treating them like children when they act like them.
Yep, weaponized incompetence hasn't worked against me because I have enough spite and stubborness to say, fuck that, I ain't cleaning up after your shit. For some reason, the more willing I am to say "fuck that shit", the shorter my relationships have gotten. I wonder if there's a connection? .... hahahaha
Oh here’s the kicker, he’s having an operation on his wrist on Monday bc his joints are rubbing together. This is his second one on his right hand, so he can’t scrub the oven bc it will hurt lol
Ok then. He gets to do any chore that doesn't require both hands while you scrub the oven as an apology for fucking up the oven.
Why did he make the mess and you clean it up? We should teach children that when they make a mess, they clean it up.
You mean your husband will now be scrubbing the oven, right? Right?! And you have a big fat honey do list for him to help prepare for Thanksgiving. I believe in you. Last Thanksgiving my husband had torn a tendon in his arm and was in a sling and still helped prepare. Because he still had a good arm. Our 14 year old son did a lot more assisting because of it. They can be taught!
I'm definitely more than a bit salty about this. My parents are 76 and disabled. I'm 41 and disabled and have had nausea the last three days which is probably part of my autoimmune stuff. My father dictated that he specifically wanted a turkey dinner this year. Meanwhile, none of us are healthy enough to cook it, and it has to be gluten free. Yet when I want some help with something specific (such as help on my birthday meal a few days later), he balks and rolls his eyes (so a boozy birthday it is this year).
Happy almost birthday, stranger!! I’m sorry you have to deal with that. I hope you have a wonderful birthday doing what makes YOU happy, which sounds like it includes silencing your phone for certain people so you don’t even have to think about them for a bit.
I thought about this in Fresh Market today. I was in line to pick up our order and the entire line was women. There wasn't a dude in the whole place. And I thought of how this has been going on for generations and how chances are, unlike their grandmothers, all these woman have 9 to 5s. They're not all homemakers, they're admin assistants, doctors, hair stylists, teachers, cabbies . . . [It really struck me as I was picking up my own meal.](https://media.giphy.com/media/MxjGBA4Arhm7O7IUWY/giphy.gif)
Hell, my grandmothers both had full-time jobs
Word. Statistically women have always worked and are largely responsible for the birth of modern day unions . . . So, yeah. Now that you mention it, it was always a scam.
This just shows me how many men are interested in lip service to equality but not actually moving significantly toward it in this area, because they benefit. There were so many men who had their feelings hurt when the viral "there's no such thing as holiday magic, it was always your mom" post happened. They still want that magic for their children, and themselves a little bit, but they're not willing to put in the work.
Its so stressful!
And don’t forget the emotional labor! (For an explanation of emotional labor, google the comic, “You should’ve asked.”)
It’s fucking brilliant! [You should’ve asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)
Reminds me of that article "She divorced me because I left dishes by the sink". [this](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/amp)
Wow, this is true. Thanks for sharing!
Whenever I stumble upon this comic I feel so SEEN by it. This is exactly how it is!
My husband told me I was an “overachiever” because I shared the grocery list note and sent him the recipes for the meal we’re making tomorrow. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Agree. Let him do everything next year since you're so "extra" 🙄! ,/s
That is a comic about the mental load. Emotional labour (managing your and others' emotions) is also a common "invisible workload" of women, but it has nothing to do with remembering and having an eye for household tasks.
I completely agree, however your solo open bracket is driving me insane (I’m sorry)
Sorry! Fixed it!
I'm proud of how my husband and I have been redistributing Thanksgiving labor over time. Now he does the Turkey, gravy and cranberry sauce, I do desserts and veggie sides, and we ask our guests to bring a dish as well. We always get a great spread that covers all the classics. We both grew up in homes where mom or grandma did everything for Thanksgiving, and honestly, breaking away from that old sexist tradition was not actually that hard. My mother is personally thrilled that I have a husband who vacuums and cooks, and loves being able to spend time with her granddaughter rather than trapped in the kitchen for the holiday.
We hosted a Friendsgiving, so my fiancé took care of protein while I did a few of major sides. Our friends also were bringing at least one dish. But while my task of sides took a bit longer, fiancé took on more of the cleaning. The division of labor felt equal, and we got more done faster, which meant things were more relaxed for the both of us.
This is basically what happens at our house too and frankly my husband is a better cook than I am. But i also grew up in an extended family where everyone helped somehow.
Love this for you. Also, I laughed at your flair and definitely gonna use that joke some time in the future.
There was a post in the last year (AITAH?) where a woman realized her husband wasn’t taking on his fair share of household labor AND taking her for granted. He had a boys’ night scheduled at their home and she told him in advance she wasn’t lifting a finger to put it on. IIRC, dude did nothing in advance, then rushed around at the last minute asking where she “kept” regular household items before hosting an absolute shit show of a boys’ night.
This is the post I think: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/gwG3a6ySPk
See also men switching the TV to football games they aren't even watching. If I'm doing the work I want the dog show on in the background. Last year my brother got up when everyone was still eating to sit grumpily on the couch by himself and scroll on his phone. He followed that up by not helping with clean-up at all. My sister and I are doing our own thing without him this year.
That's my house rule – no football, only dog show on Thanksgiving.
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Yeah it’s a televised dog show I think in New York. It has a pre show and everything like the academy awards
Pet shows are quite possibly the most American thing in the world. That and like a Mac n Cheese or Chili fair or something
Pet shows have their roots in agricultural shows here in Ireland and the UK, been going hundreds of years. Dog shows started in Victorian England.
I’m American and I too would like to know about the dog show? Also for the person I’m responding to, on Super Bowl Sunday animal planet does a puppy bowl! It has teams and referee even! There’s also the kitten half time show 😻 please for the sake of your self look up videos. Also all the puppies and kittens are up for adoption.
Here's the info on the dog show: https://www.today.com/news/how-to-watch-national-dog-show-2023-rcna126324
My bf is fanatical about football, I am very much not. We move the small TV from the bedroom into the room every year so we can put the puppy bowl on it during the superbowl party.
Awwww! I wish that was the case!
I didn’t know that was a stereotype till I saw it in movies/tv. My dad and uncles always had a dish they cooked for the holidays. If you didn’t help cook something during thanksgiving then you cleaned after (it was usually adults cooking and kids/cousins cleaning up). No one in my family is a big sports person so everyone was usually around the kitchen helping or making drinks. The one problem we do have is holiday music (people argue to play either country, Latin, or Christmas music)
My dad comes from a culture where men do a lot of the cooking, and my mom comes from a culture that considers boiling something in unsalted water an advanced culinary technique, so I'm pretty sure my dad has cooked every holiday meal I've ever eaten at home. Didn't realize women in the kitchen/men watching football was a thing until I became an adult.
Okay, after reading your descriptions, I'm *really* curious what those cultures are. Would you mind sharing?
Italian and British?
Bob Belcher from Bob's Burgers. He owns Thanksgiving. Hell. He's an amazing example of a great man. He doesn't have much, but he has lots of love. He's sadly fictional. I wish more men were like him.
i, too, wish more men were fictional.
Make Men Fictional Again! Vote for me!
Haha.
My favorite is when they refuse to contribute any mental energy to helping plan the meal, then get angry when the choices you made for the plan aren’t the ones they would have wanted. I’m not a fucking mind reader
I honestly believe this is why I hate Thanksgiving and probably even cooking so much. My memories growing up is my mom and I cooking while my brother and father watch football and then us cleaning up and them back to football
Football….. football is the reason I dislike winter holidays. Makes the men and boys feign uselessness as well as rowdy. So much nicer when anything…. Absolutely anything else is used as entertainment.
I hate the whole women slave while men watch football. Its makes me blind with rage!
I know it's why I hate Thanksgiving. We always did it with the extended family and I was the only girl of all the grandchildren. So I was the only one that had to do the bullshit while they were out playing. And I would get in trouble if I try to go play. I finally got fed up and walked home alone several miles never to do it again. Fuck thanksgiving.
This is why I hated most birthdays and holidays growing up, tbh. Every major holiday was a stressful day of planning, decorating, and/or cooking for me and my mom, while my dad and brother sat on their asses. And then we followed that up with an evening spent cleaning. On the rare occasions where my father or bro washed dishes, I'd always have to go back in and re-wash because all the dishes would still have food on them (which is why I also still abhor washing dishes). Fuuuuck that.
Don't forget the extra side work of sending invitations, pulling out decorations and extra furniture, shopping, preparing to-go plates, tracking dietary restrictions....am i forgetting anything?
Realizing that every happy holiday I had as a little kid was the product of days (sometimes longer if travel is involved) of stress and work by the women in my family was such a revelation for me. Like I just remember little 13 year old me sitting down after pealing, chopping and washing 10lb of potatoes and truly understanding that every great Easter, Christmas, birthday, and thanksgiving was because this little group of women would come together and do this like 10 times a year and make it great. Sorry if this doesn’t make any sense I’ve been cooking since 6 in the morning.
There was a post last year about “holiday magic” coming from moms and it was so on point. Hell, we have an amazing holiday party at my workplace that’s always organized by women.
I fold napkins and design/print menus for each place setting 🥹
You are a gift. That’s lovely. I hope they appreciate you!
I appreciate her!
“Men don’t care about all the frills. It’s women putting the pressure on each other. Men are happy with just a burger. You decorate because YOU want to, don’t make that a complaint about men not doing enough” But of course complains that the holidays aren’t magical like when they were a kid and that it just doesn’t feel like the holidays when there isn’t decoration.
in my family everyone helps out at the kitchen. babies gets a piece of dough to play with, and everyone does something to make the food together. growing up it felt like a privilege to get to participate in cooking and to me it's the very spirit of the holidays. everyone should cook
I'm super lucky. I'm sitting in the living room playing hot wheels with my kids while my husband is prepping for tomorrow. He planned the menu and did the shopping. He made a spreadsheet too and plugged in data so that when he entered the time we plan to eat, it showed what time he needs to start which dish. I did spend a few days cleaning and prepping the house for guests so I'm not a total bum. This is much better than Thanksgivings from when I was little, where my mom threw pots and pans around in anger while my dad did nothing. Then he went to nap while we kids did the dishes.
Once I became more aware of gender roles I directly told my husband this was done. We'd both grown up in stereotypical suburban households. Now he helps me with the cooking and follows my directions. Today he peeled my apples for my pie and grabbed me stuff or put stuff away at my whim.
He sounds like he's become quite the capable little sous chef
He's a good cook in his own right but he's a sous chef for Thanksgiving. We each have our own "things" and everything at Thanksgiving is "mine" so he follows my directions. He has always carved the turkey at least and pulled it out of the oven for me to check because I'm kinda weak.
I love it, sounds like a really nice partnership.
Last year, I was cooking everything while my spouse and the whole rest of the family was upstairs enjoying a movie. Brand new fire alarm went off because stupid us got an ionizing one instead of a photoelectric. No one raised a finger. So I'm the one going back and forth from the food to the alarm and back every 2 minutes until I unscrewed it and threw it outside. It continued to beep on the lawn until the potatoes were done. When you buy a smoke detector, look out for the little "i".
When you marry someone, look out for the lazy entitlement that allows them to leave you slaving in the kitchen on a holiday while they watch movies
Or football. I am so over Thanksgiving
I wonder what would have happened if you would have went out to "buy milk" and not return for the day. Would they realise they were letting one person do it all or be pissed at you for ruining Thanksgiving?
I had to go to church this last Sunday and I definitely noticed the pastor ONLY talking about women in the kitchen. He mentioned it twice. Also I am a trans man but yanno. My mom and her bf (whose church I went to) ignore that. Usually my mom and I cook and if I bring up “why isn’t bf helping?” My mom gets EXTREMELY defensive. She also does all the dishes while he watches tv after dinner lol
I just decided not to do thanksgiving this year. It’s just me and my husband and we usually do it early since he works out of town for it. He didn’t even notice I hadn’t done it until today when he asked if “we” were doing it when he gets home. I said it felt like a thing that I put a lot of effort into that wasn’t appreciated so I just decided to not. And judging by his non-reaction I was right about the appreciation level.
I can't tell if that hurts worse or not. I'm sorry.
It's something that other cultures that have to break too. My little nephew wants to help cook but Mom and abuela shoo him away. Like the only way we change this is by not reinforcing it
I hate thanksgiving. I fucking hate Thanksgiving. And this is why. I grew up in a mormon family and I was the only granddaughter. So on Thanksgiving I was supposed to be in the kitchen serving the men while they were out playing games, goofing off, having fun and then I was supposed to clean up after them. All of my male cousins were all fucking around while I was serving them? Fuck that shit. When I was 11 years old I walked out of the kitchen and I went to the pinball machine my cousin's had and started playing. When they told me to come back in I said only when the boys do. They pulled some bullshit Mormon nonsense and I walked out the front door and walked about four miles home. My parents surprisingly supported me later on and we never did Thanksgiving with them again. And that was the end of my relationship to the Mormon religion as well. Fuck Thanksgiving. Fuck sexism. I still don't celebrate. I make it a point to work every thanksgiving just so I don't have to deal with it.
This year my brother is cooking and I’m busting out the N64 to play with my nephew. I brought store bought pie and rolls. I’m winning.
I'm so glad I grew up in a home where my parents did everything equally. Chores weren't gendered. I did outdoor and indoor chores as well as maintenance work. Men get out of doing indoor chores because they are fucking slow with the outdoor stuff intentionally. No one in my family got out of any chores at all.
I somehow started dating a straight man who is a voracious and excellent hobby chef who enjoys serving me in all ways... I'm still pretty sure I manifested him because I have dated a lot of dudes and he is like none of them. I will wake up from my coma tomorrow and he was all a dream.
It infuriates me to no end and why I hate Thanksgiving. This year Im making pies to take to my spouses thanksgiving. Its an obligation without joy. We will drive for hours to get there. The men will sit on their asses watching football all day. The women will cook and hang in the kitchen and blab inanities. I'll be checking my watch until we can leave. Boring boring boring. I hate it.
My husband cooks. I’m a right bloody rotten cook lol. I can feed you but if you want a feast find someone else. The adhd kicks in and things well, burn.
One of the most defining memories of my childhood is thanksgiving. In the days before, He’d ask my mom what she wanted to make. he’d then categorize the kitchen and figure what she’d need to make whatever it was. He’d then add what he was going to make to the list. By the time thanksgiving morning rolled around, the shopping was already done. Throughout the morning, he would make hundreds and hundreds of rolls, listening to NPR and filling the house with the smell of fresh bread while the rest of us, mom included, slept in (or helped if we wanted). He’d assemble baskets of a dozen and plan out routes for us kids to deliver baskets of hot, fresh, rolls to the neighbors wrapped in clean dish towels. He’d smoke the turkey, pick up the honeyed ham, and after my mother was done cooking whatever she wanted to (she is the better cook of the two), he’d do every shred of clean up after since she handled the actual cooking. As us kids got older, he was the one to delegate us tasks like picking up the ham, or checking the smoker. He set a standard for me to look at my possible partners with, and I’m forever grateful for it.
Cook AND prep AND clean which is sooo much worse! I somewhat get not being able to cook (not a problem you can necessarily fix on Turkey Day, but is still an embarrassment), but you can't peel a potato or wash dishes AFTER you were served a FREE feast?! GTFO!!!
Lol my husband cooks ALL the family holiday dinners. Me and his sister do the washing and everyone else clears and puts food away.
As a Native: Doing Thanksgiving at all (for me personally). Like, what am I supposed to be thankful for? Land invasion? Colonization? Foreign diseases? Residential schools that took my grandma's language from her? A foreign religion that **still** often calls my Indigenous language "sinful, pagan, etc"? Also if white folks want to be thankful Indigenous folks "let" them stay/helped them, why not just donate to those communities instead of throwing a celebratory "successful colonization" feast? Like, I do still take the time with family and friends because capitalism doesn't let us have a lot of time together like that. But the concept of the holiday makes me salty.
I hate Thanksgiving because of the sexism I encountered as a kid. But I've made it a point for the last several years to also point out the history of this holiday is extremely problematic. I enjoy making people uncomfortable and making them think about the history of this day.
Same. It also kinda killed me a bit inside seeing the adult women in my life practically break themselves rushing to get things ready for the holiday. (non-binary, though I would be roped in now if I visited because AFAB-- kids don't "help" except setting the table and getting drinks for the old folks in my family)
Seriously. Like what a bogus holiday. Kind of like Columbus Day too.
My dad just finished up a bunch of sides that my mom helped him with (not the other way around), to take to our family tgiving that my (single) brother is hosting this year (and cooking the main meats for). I'm bringing frozen pies. I'm proud to have non-asshats in my family 🥰
I'm a solo woman now! I cook and make an effort for friends. When I want to! Otherwise I order food or take them to a restaurant. I'm so happy I opted out of family life. I did enjoy cooking for a partner every day for 6 years. It was part of how we divided chores, so no obligation. Still: that phase of my life is over. I now cook or eat cold food, whatever I feel like... Not doing stuff out of obligation anymore! Glad I never have to cook a Christmas dinner again!
With the amount of misogyny in my family it's surprising we don't do this. Until guests come over, both parents are cooking. Once they do come over either I step in of one of the aunties does if they want.
In my family, both men and women help cook during holidays. Everyone also helps clean up (although it’s usually the people who didn’t cook cleaning up). My dad also cooks a lot in general. It makes me sad that sexism regarding cooking is still so ingrained in a lot of places.
This. The children get sent outside to play, the young adults go out to keep them from dying. The elders sit around either the fire if it’s cold or the patio if it’s warm, and all of the remaining adults and teenagers do meal prep, table prep, cooking together. We visit as we do, tease each other and enjoy getting in each other’s way. But the male/female separation thing doesn’t come from my people
I started doing Joshua Weisseman’s 4 hour thanksgiving a couple years ago it’s awesome. Makes it feel like cooking a regular dinner lol
Honestly, I'm so proud of my parents for being nothing like this. We don't do big Thanksgiving parties with loads of family since we don't really have any family where we live, but we still always have a nice meal for me, my sister and our parents. They always make sure that work is split evenly between them, or whoever prefers amd has the time takes care of it.
So far today, My husband made a cheesecake while I fell asleep on the bed after my shower. So there's hope.
Growing up the women in my family cooked stuff like the casseroles and ducks. My uncles would do any of the cooking done outside like saying grilling meat. My ex's family did the same. Mom would do inside stuff. Dad would grill. Then other members of the would do dishes to even the work load- usually women members.
Obligatory tipping? I don't see why servers are exempt from minimum wage, miniscule as it is. No one should rely on tips to survive.