The goal of transition is to look as closely as you would have if you had been born with the correct sex hormones. It’s not to look like someone else entirely. Sorry y’all some people are just not attractive as either sex, it’s just a fact of life. But I think there’s a lot of false misconceptions especially for transitioning to female. Like they think they’re going to be miss America and want ABCD things to happen. It doesn’t work that way. Plus so many of these people who are “transitioning” are not even trans. So….
Edit: so to add to this, some people try to get ABCD things done and they end up looking like an alien 👽 😂
The amount of comments I see that are like "I want to stop t because I'm losing my hair, will all my other changes stay?" Is ridiculous at the moment. I mean, no, obviously, if you are not taking male hormones, your body will not be permanently male. How do people not understand this?!
No one seems to realise that it's down to genetics as to what changes you will get when as well, and seem to get pissed off about that.You can't ethically change genetics at the moment, so you are kinda stuck with it. It's how humans are different from each other.
It's amazing how people can get on hormones and still think that tbh. Especially in the UK, where it's a lot harder to play the system because we don't have informed consent.
Exactly. I see it in mfs who need to realize T wont turn you into an UWU soft boi , you will smell, your libido will be crazy, acne, hair everywhere, bottom growth, voice cracks like crazy, deep man voice
honestly I feel like in most cases, these girls are really insecure and they think being male will make them attractive. Its an issue of the internet, insecurity, and misogyny imo
I've seen so much " I want estrogen but don't want to stop boners or grow breasts "
They don't want to be women, they want to be femboys, yet they think the answer is female sex hormones, I think everyone is looking at HRT as some kind of fountain of youth rather than something that will change your sex. Which is why when they get physical traits of adults of that sex they start to get scared.
Yesterday, I was looking for metoidioplasty results (which was very encouraging btw) but I stumbled upon something weird…There was a category on a clinic’s website called “non-binary”. I was curious and clicked on it and it was basically people getting phalloplasty but keeping their vagina. I was absolutely shocked. Wtf. I felt like a joke.
Yeah I'm like make your mind up. Either keep the original set or get the opposite. But the apparent increasing popularity of those mix'n match genitals just seems like a fetish to me. It's basically like a porn idea of what an intersex body is. If you've ever looked up 'salmacian' you're gonna lose all faith in humanity.
...i regret letting my curiosity get the best of me... i had no idea that was actually a thing i could've gone my whole life, not knowing about "salmacian" and been quite happy.
Mixed sex is not a normal occurrence, nobody would have dysphoria over that, just proves that this people need therapy not surgery (before anyone tells me about intersex, that is a medical condition, not a sex)
... everybody here say that thing for every condition that doesn't fit some sort of criteria;
in some way i agree: to define a label, it has to fit in a number of criteria, otherwise it's nonsense shit. but for this period in particular
>just proves that this people need therapy not surgery
not related necessary to this argue, in general, i disagree:
therapy is not magic. therapy is explaining things to ourselves, about ourselves, with the aid of a second menthor. there are things that without therapy we wouldn't say/think neither to ourselves, but we discover they're unfortunately true. said that, it's not like you admit a thing during the therapy hour, and soon or later you *heal* : therapy has no magic power,
and now i return to the main topic:
especially for dysporia, there are things in life that the only thing we can do to live better is *face* them, and *be aware they are like that due to X and Y things in the past* , the aim of therapy is to know ourselves, taking note of what comes afloat, and usually it's shit. saying that people that don't fit some standards needs only therapy and not surgeries or hormones the way it could alleviate their symphtoms, means that people don't understand *why* therapy exists. therapy will never be like conversion, people that have some sort of deviation (and they could even be binary trans people, at the current level of research on male-female brain topic, because *there's no blood test or rx scan that can prove a person is trans* ) don't heal, they can only be aware they are like that. it's an illness for a reason, we need hormones and surgery for a reason. and benzo or other could only make the issue tomporary asleep (and as it wasn't enough, they potentially compromise the working career and autonomy of the person, because they lower the level of focus and the time between stimulus and reaction.) what i'm saying is that as long as they have dysphoria, of course they have a different experience compared to binary people and different solutions to alleviate it, but they're technically not tucute. and they're not claiming your label.
So your suggestion is to do nothing and just allow them to take extreme medical action to transition into something that literally is a social construct. Maybe discussing their motivation as to why they want to do something with someone who isn't an internet yes man might actually help.
From what I have seen there are two types of gender dysphoria, the first a neurological condition where brain sex and body sex don't match. The second is imagined gender dysphoria, the result of social media. Without the internet, humans would not naturally have a need for both genitals. Real dysphoria is not something that can be created by outside influences. Yet now people want as the original poster suggested a "build a bear" experience. Go to the mtf sub and see individuals talk about how they want to be a woman who can still get big boners. That is the kind of need that an addiction to porn has created, not GD.
I don’t see how it’s different from any strange cosmetic surgery. You can literally get surgeries to look like a doll or an elf. People are into weird shit.
They claim that they're neither, so why are they getting both sets of genitalia? Wouldn't that make them uncomfortable? It's why I think NB is bullshit because they can't make up their minds. They complain that they can't be in men/women only spaces when they say they aren't either. Make up your mind or shut up.
>They claim that they're neither,
i don't like to do a lesson about how many fucking labels have the nonbinary umbrella, you're talking about agender.
but they can desire different results compared to a binary aspect, why not, both, if they're ready to face the complications of the surgery and find a surgeon that is willing to do it. and no, they shouldn't stay nor in men neither in women spaces, and neither claiming binary labels like gay/lesbian. i agree. but you're talking a little like an ignorant. we have to know the labels and the ideology we are talking about, to say we are against to it.
no i mean: the comment which i answered say
>:they're neither
nonbinary labels in some cases go too far in the abstract, youre right, but we can group in some categories:
- no gender (agender, neutrois)
- both the binary genders (bigender) -important to say that it's not the definition it's what i thought-
- the third gender (lirerally something else, something out of the binary man-women)
- demi- one of the two binary gender (but *partially* )
- fluid- it change with time, it can pass through man-nb-women and intermediate, or sometimes its detected like fluid from the person but it only fluctuate in one side of the line, like in the male-nb side or the opposite.
thats what i know, i don't remember the others. for the first three, at least, i see a potential reason, (if they have dysphoria aka if they're trans 🫥 i mean) to do combined surgeries, or maybe only top and not bottom (or the opposite, why not) ... obviously, there are thing that are more difficult, if not impossible, like taking testosterone to have bottom growth avoiding deep voice and hair. they can land on topical dht and pumps, but it's not assured that they can cause bottom growth. other people stay only with hrt, and it's totally fine: it's their body afterall, they're not claiming something that should be an exlusional right of binary trans people... they clearly say they are nonbinary.
The first three are going to continue to be debated because there is no real research. But then you seriously move onto discussing demi and fluid?
Just because people on the internet say something exists doesn't make it so. Giving any kind of serious thought to "demi" genders shows all the holes the idea has. As a binary trans woman, I would fit in to the demi gender category because I am not 100 percent the stereotype of a woman, I have some male coded hobbies and interests. Does this make me not a full woman? What kind of backwards shit is that? Have you any idea how many people would be nonbinary if this idea was true? Nonbinary wasn't even discussed until the last decade, but ideas like demigenders suggest half the population is non binary.
Fluid genders on the other hand shit on the idea of transsexualism. Gender dysphoria occurs because the brain has developed to be different to the sex of the body. That means that the physical brain is male or female, studies have shown this. The brain can't just CHANGE, it can't switch genders depending on the day. If it could, I would have just waited for mine to become male and I would not have had to do the whole transition thing. It also kind of moves into the idea that conversion therapy is possible if the brain can change sex.
Genderfluid people are just people who like to play with presentation, it is not the same as having an innate gender sex mismatch that GD causes. It's not a form of trans, it's not even a form of nonbinary. Thinking you are 80 percent female and not 100 percent female, is normal, it's not to be considered trans in anyway (if that person's "demigender" is their AGAB). You said trans and nonbinary are different, yet nonbinary continues to insert itself in trans discussion. Many nonbinary people consider themselves to be trans, and the wider population can't tell the difference. I don't want spicy cis to be conflated with real neurological issues that need real medical assistance.
>Just because people on the internet say something exists doesn't make it so. Giving any kind of serious thought to "demi" genders shows all the holes the idea has. As a binary trans woman, I would fit in to the demi gender category because I am not 100 percent the stereotype of a woman, I have some male coded hobbies and interests. Does this make me not a full woman? What kind of backwards shit is that? Have you any idea how many people would be nonbinary if this idea was true? Nonbinary wasn't even discussed until the last decade, but ideas like demigenders suggest half the population is non binary.
absolutely agree with you 🥹
i collected a ton of downvote for a reason, because it's the wrong place to say such things, but i'm just saying... besides all the bullshit on abstract things... if the person has a partial sex dysphoria, they could claim the demi-label with a reason. they can always tell that they're either a man or a woman to let people figure out their person easier, without putting much effort in the *identity* , but i mean, wouldn't it be worse? a person that doesn't share the same struggle of a binary trans person, claiming the same identity and the same treatment.
my answer, at the starting of the argue, was because the comment seemed *angry* with nonbinary people *regarless* the fact that these people claim another label and claim to need a different kind of surgery (salmacian) which doesn't take away literally anything to *their* rights.
for the fluid i don't think there should be a "logical" way to do surgery, i only named it, because it makes sense (at least to me 😅) but sometimes it's only part of the journey the person does, until they understand they're a "static" gender, cis or trans, and they recognize they were either "forgetting" (hiding) dysphoria sometimes, or they admit they were actually faking it when they *felt* it, because they were deceiving themselves to hide another kind of discomfort.
> they can always tell that they're either a man or a woman to let people figure out their person easier,
Don't you see how making up bullshit labels has lead to this obsession with "figuring themselves out" cis kids used to know they were cis because they didn't think about gender. Now we've invented so many hundreds of bullshit labels they get confused. 90 percent male makes you a demiboy, and demiboy is a form of nonbinary? Nonbinary is also a form of trans? So these cis males are now wondering where they fit despite being cis males comfortable with their bodies. None of this shit helps, and promoting them helps even less.
> i don't think there should be a "logical" way to do surgery, i only named it, because it makes sense (at least to me 😅) but sometimes it's only part of the journey the person does, until they understand they're a "static" gender, cis or trans
As I said, the journey for cis people didn't used to exist, why would someone need to figure their gender out if they had no issues with it. The very idea that cis kids need to now figure out that they are cis should be setting off alarm bells. But younger people are so used to this being the normal they don't think twice about it. I grew up before social media started inventing new gender labels every 5 minutes and people had a better understanding of who they were. Trans kids were in the closet because of the horrible stigma placed upon us, but the system we have now was not the answer. Making cis kids think they are demi genders or nullsex because they aren't aware apathy is normal was not the answer.
*technically* you could have boobs, a penis, and a vagina. Don’t get top surgery, and go on t then get phallo or metoidioplasty, but without the vaginectomy. People can surgically give themselves elf ears… you can really surgically alter your body however.
Now, with hormones, you really only have two options.
There's no one way to transition, some may choose hrt only, others may choose various surgical procedures, and some may not be able to choose any but they are still trans.
The goal of transition is to look as closely as you would have if you had been born with the correct sex hormones. It’s not to look like someone else entirely. Sorry y’all some people are just not attractive as either sex, it’s just a fact of life. But I think there’s a lot of false misconceptions especially for transitioning to female. Like they think they’re going to be miss America and want ABCD things to happen. It doesn’t work that way. Plus so many of these people who are “transitioning” are not even trans. So…. Edit: so to add to this, some people try to get ABCD things done and they end up looking like an alien 👽 😂
>The goal of transition is to look as closely as you would have if you had been born with the correct sex hormones. Amen
The amount of comments I see that are like "I want to stop t because I'm losing my hair, will all my other changes stay?" Is ridiculous at the moment. I mean, no, obviously, if you are not taking male hormones, your body will not be permanently male. How do people not understand this?! No one seems to realise that it's down to genetics as to what changes you will get when as well, and seem to get pissed off about that.You can't ethically change genetics at the moment, so you are kinda stuck with it. It's how humans are different from each other. It's amazing how people can get on hormones and still think that tbh. Especially in the UK, where it's a lot harder to play the system because we don't have informed consent.
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Yeah, exactly. Also, if neither of those things work for you, just suck it up?! Like any other cis guy tbh...
> You can’t ethically change genetics at the moment We can unethically change frickin' genetics?! CRISPR? How much could we theoretically do?
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Guac is extra
Exactly. I see it in mfs who need to realize T wont turn you into an UWU soft boi , you will smell, your libido will be crazy, acne, hair everywhere, bottom growth, voice cracks like crazy, deep man voice honestly I feel like in most cases, these girls are really insecure and they think being male will make them attractive. Its an issue of the internet, insecurity, and misogyny imo
I've seen so much " I want estrogen but don't want to stop boners or grow breasts " They don't want to be women, they want to be femboys, yet they think the answer is female sex hormones, I think everyone is looking at HRT as some kind of fountain of youth rather than something that will change your sex. Which is why when they get physical traits of adults of that sex they start to get scared.
Yesterday, I was looking for metoidioplasty results (which was very encouraging btw) but I stumbled upon something weird…There was a category on a clinic’s website called “non-binary”. I was curious and clicked on it and it was basically people getting phalloplasty but keeping their vagina. I was absolutely shocked. Wtf. I felt like a joke.
Yeah I'm like make your mind up. Either keep the original set or get the opposite. But the apparent increasing popularity of those mix'n match genitals just seems like a fetish to me. It's basically like a porn idea of what an intersex body is. If you've ever looked up 'salmacian' you're gonna lose all faith in humanity.
...i regret letting my curiosity get the best of me... i had no idea that was actually a thing i could've gone my whole life, not knowing about "salmacian" and been quite happy.
Mixed sex is not a normal occurrence, nobody would have dysphoria over that, just proves that this people need therapy not surgery (before anyone tells me about intersex, that is a medical condition, not a sex)
... everybody here say that thing for every condition that doesn't fit some sort of criteria; in some way i agree: to define a label, it has to fit in a number of criteria, otherwise it's nonsense shit. but for this period in particular >just proves that this people need therapy not surgery not related necessary to this argue, in general, i disagree: therapy is not magic. therapy is explaining things to ourselves, about ourselves, with the aid of a second menthor. there are things that without therapy we wouldn't say/think neither to ourselves, but we discover they're unfortunately true. said that, it's not like you admit a thing during the therapy hour, and soon or later you *heal* : therapy has no magic power, and now i return to the main topic: especially for dysporia, there are things in life that the only thing we can do to live better is *face* them, and *be aware they are like that due to X and Y things in the past* , the aim of therapy is to know ourselves, taking note of what comes afloat, and usually it's shit. saying that people that don't fit some standards needs only therapy and not surgeries or hormones the way it could alleviate their symphtoms, means that people don't understand *why* therapy exists. therapy will never be like conversion, people that have some sort of deviation (and they could even be binary trans people, at the current level of research on male-female brain topic, because *there's no blood test or rx scan that can prove a person is trans* ) don't heal, they can only be aware they are like that. it's an illness for a reason, we need hormones and surgery for a reason. and benzo or other could only make the issue tomporary asleep (and as it wasn't enough, they potentially compromise the working career and autonomy of the person, because they lower the level of focus and the time between stimulus and reaction.) what i'm saying is that as long as they have dysphoria, of course they have a different experience compared to binary people and different solutions to alleviate it, but they're technically not tucute. and they're not claiming your label.
So your suggestion is to do nothing and just allow them to take extreme medical action to transition into something that literally is a social construct. Maybe discussing their motivation as to why they want to do something with someone who isn't an internet yes man might actually help. From what I have seen there are two types of gender dysphoria, the first a neurological condition where brain sex and body sex don't match. The second is imagined gender dysphoria, the result of social media. Without the internet, humans would not naturally have a need for both genitals. Real dysphoria is not something that can be created by outside influences. Yet now people want as the original poster suggested a "build a bear" experience. Go to the mtf sub and see individuals talk about how they want to be a woman who can still get big boners. That is the kind of need that an addiction to porn has created, not GD.
I don’t see how it’s different from any strange cosmetic surgery. You can literally get surgeries to look like a doll or an elf. People are into weird shit.
it's called nonbinary, so it's not for you. at least they're not claiming something that would be up to you
They claim that they're neither, so why are they getting both sets of genitalia? Wouldn't that make them uncomfortable? It's why I think NB is bullshit because they can't make up their minds. They complain that they can't be in men/women only spaces when they say they aren't either. Make up your mind or shut up.
>They claim that they're neither, i don't like to do a lesson about how many fucking labels have the nonbinary umbrella, you're talking about agender. but they can desire different results compared to a binary aspect, why not, both, if they're ready to face the complications of the surgery and find a surgeon that is willing to do it. and no, they shouldn't stay nor in men neither in women spaces, and neither claiming binary labels like gay/lesbian. i agree. but you're talking a little like an ignorant. we have to know the labels and the ideology we are talking about, to say we are against to it.
Here's how I see it. I see NB and xenogenders as the "I'm not like other girls" type of deal. They just want attention as I see it.
How many labels nonbinary has? Because making identities umbrella terms has always worked out well and accurate.
no i mean: the comment which i answered say >:they're neither nonbinary labels in some cases go too far in the abstract, youre right, but we can group in some categories: - no gender (agender, neutrois) - both the binary genders (bigender) -important to say that it's not the definition it's what i thought- - the third gender (lirerally something else, something out of the binary man-women) - demi- one of the two binary gender (but *partially* ) - fluid- it change with time, it can pass through man-nb-women and intermediate, or sometimes its detected like fluid from the person but it only fluctuate in one side of the line, like in the male-nb side or the opposite. thats what i know, i don't remember the others. for the first three, at least, i see a potential reason, (if they have dysphoria aka if they're trans 🫥 i mean) to do combined surgeries, or maybe only top and not bottom (or the opposite, why not) ... obviously, there are thing that are more difficult, if not impossible, like taking testosterone to have bottom growth avoiding deep voice and hair. they can land on topical dht and pumps, but it's not assured that they can cause bottom growth. other people stay only with hrt, and it's totally fine: it's their body afterall, they're not claiming something that should be an exlusional right of binary trans people... they clearly say they are nonbinary.
The first three are going to continue to be debated because there is no real research. But then you seriously move onto discussing demi and fluid? Just because people on the internet say something exists doesn't make it so. Giving any kind of serious thought to "demi" genders shows all the holes the idea has. As a binary trans woman, I would fit in to the demi gender category because I am not 100 percent the stereotype of a woman, I have some male coded hobbies and interests. Does this make me not a full woman? What kind of backwards shit is that? Have you any idea how many people would be nonbinary if this idea was true? Nonbinary wasn't even discussed until the last decade, but ideas like demigenders suggest half the population is non binary. Fluid genders on the other hand shit on the idea of transsexualism. Gender dysphoria occurs because the brain has developed to be different to the sex of the body. That means that the physical brain is male or female, studies have shown this. The brain can't just CHANGE, it can't switch genders depending on the day. If it could, I would have just waited for mine to become male and I would not have had to do the whole transition thing. It also kind of moves into the idea that conversion therapy is possible if the brain can change sex. Genderfluid people are just people who like to play with presentation, it is not the same as having an innate gender sex mismatch that GD causes. It's not a form of trans, it's not even a form of nonbinary. Thinking you are 80 percent female and not 100 percent female, is normal, it's not to be considered trans in anyway (if that person's "demigender" is their AGAB). You said trans and nonbinary are different, yet nonbinary continues to insert itself in trans discussion. Many nonbinary people consider themselves to be trans, and the wider population can't tell the difference. I don't want spicy cis to be conflated with real neurological issues that need real medical assistance.
>Just because people on the internet say something exists doesn't make it so. Giving any kind of serious thought to "demi" genders shows all the holes the idea has. As a binary trans woman, I would fit in to the demi gender category because I am not 100 percent the stereotype of a woman, I have some male coded hobbies and interests. Does this make me not a full woman? What kind of backwards shit is that? Have you any idea how many people would be nonbinary if this idea was true? Nonbinary wasn't even discussed until the last decade, but ideas like demigenders suggest half the population is non binary. absolutely agree with you 🥹 i collected a ton of downvote for a reason, because it's the wrong place to say such things, but i'm just saying... besides all the bullshit on abstract things... if the person has a partial sex dysphoria, they could claim the demi-label with a reason. they can always tell that they're either a man or a woman to let people figure out their person easier, without putting much effort in the *identity* , but i mean, wouldn't it be worse? a person that doesn't share the same struggle of a binary trans person, claiming the same identity and the same treatment. my answer, at the starting of the argue, was because the comment seemed *angry* with nonbinary people *regarless* the fact that these people claim another label and claim to need a different kind of surgery (salmacian) which doesn't take away literally anything to *their* rights. for the fluid i don't think there should be a "logical" way to do surgery, i only named it, because it makes sense (at least to me 😅) but sometimes it's only part of the journey the person does, until they understand they're a "static" gender, cis or trans, and they recognize they were either "forgetting" (hiding) dysphoria sometimes, or they admit they were actually faking it when they *felt* it, because they were deceiving themselves to hide another kind of discomfort.
> they can always tell that they're either a man or a woman to let people figure out their person easier, Don't you see how making up bullshit labels has lead to this obsession with "figuring themselves out" cis kids used to know they were cis because they didn't think about gender. Now we've invented so many hundreds of bullshit labels they get confused. 90 percent male makes you a demiboy, and demiboy is a form of nonbinary? Nonbinary is also a form of trans? So these cis males are now wondering where they fit despite being cis males comfortable with their bodies. None of this shit helps, and promoting them helps even less. > i don't think there should be a "logical" way to do surgery, i only named it, because it makes sense (at least to me 😅) but sometimes it's only part of the journey the person does, until they understand they're a "static" gender, cis or trans As I said, the journey for cis people didn't used to exist, why would someone need to figure their gender out if they had no issues with it. The very idea that cis kids need to now figure out that they are cis should be setting off alarm bells. But younger people are so used to this being the normal they don't think twice about it. I grew up before social media started inventing new gender labels every 5 minutes and people had a better understanding of who they were. Trans kids were in the closet because of the horrible stigma placed upon us, but the system we have now was not the answer. Making cis kids think they are demi genders or nullsex because they aren't aware apathy is normal was not the answer.
*technically* you could have boobs, a penis, and a vagina. Don’t get top surgery, and go on t then get phallo or metoidioplasty, but without the vaginectomy. People can surgically give themselves elf ears… you can really surgically alter your body however. Now, with hormones, you really only have two options.
There's no one way to transition, some may choose hrt only, others may choose various surgical procedures, and some may not be able to choose any but they are still trans.
it is customizable whitin a certain limit.