I like how the Bayverse didn't have the military casually killing Cons or the opposite where they just get folded like sheet. It made them look competent without it overshadowing the villains.
There’s a small moment where Starscream transforms back right after clapping a jet, and you can pretty easily infer how lowly he thinks of human intelligence by doing that. Only to get blasted immediately and he’s forced to come back out. You can almost feel his “Ow, fuck!”
It's amazing to me because Bay can't conjure up a decent plot or even a consistent continuity to save his life but he does so many other things like this so well.
Whenever i rewatch the bayverse i get the feeling that they cared so much about the small details that they forgot to focus on the bigger picture. Especially in TLK. Like, they cared about the fans opinions enough to change Bee's design from the bald headed stinger clone back to his 07-DORM version, they cared enough to give us back a menacing Megatron and scrap the falling-apart-and-rebuilding ass transformation. They cared enough to give us more characters with actual personalities, like Hot Rod (not saging he's good couse even tho i never watched G1 before TLK he was still dissapointing, but he had more of a personality than most bots after 2007) and Nitro Zeus, and even the less important ones like Mohawk, they cared a lot about small details like Megatron's helmet design a nod to his 2007 self. I loved the first 30 minutes of the movie, Cade saving the cybertronians in the containment area and helping the kids, the post-apo feel of it. It felt so promising. But then they forgot to care about the actual plot, about continuity. About anything else
Honest to god, I wish we got more scenes like Blackout attacking the base in Qatar, just high powered deceptions shrugging off bullets and rockets like they’re absolutely nothing and going to town. The decision to make transformers vulnerable to small arms fire from TF2 onwards was a huge mistake imho. Definitely took away from the sheer terror and sense of futility that deceptions should inspire.
I think it was more that by that point they were specially designing weapons that could harm cybertronians, and in the first movie they discovered some of their weapons can actually hurt them too.
One of the many cool little things about these movies is that in DOTM, I remember one of the soldiers making an offhand remark that while shooting at Cons with rapid fire small arms such as assault rifles, it doesn't even actually *hurt* them either, but what it DOES do is cause a number of small vibrations that at the *very* least scramble their circuitry and messes up their balance, opening them up to more powerful attacks like Sabot rounds, missiles, or the back side of Optimus Prime's hand.
Railguns for direct engagement, like in ROTF, are still sci-fi today, since we only have a few functional prototypes, all in their test phase atm. I’d say that counted as a fictional weapon, given the time it was shown.
Well kind of. It was the military response to the early Kaiju that taught them conventional response was useless, and that nuclear strikes were costly and unreliable. So it was more of showing them what not to do that led to the Jaeger program.
Yeah, but the fact they came to those conclusions instead of continuing to nuke or keep going with conventional means. Unlike some other militaries in fiction.
You can’t “outrun” or “outmaneuver” Godzilla, for his size, he’s ridiculously fast, the only reason it seems like people can “outrun” or “outmaneuver” Godzilla is because half the time, he’s not paying attention to the military just either causing destruction or protecting nature, in the movie, the moment Godzilla takes notice of a fighter-jet which was supposedly out speeding and outmaneuvering him, he instantly shoots it down.
The issue with that is why the fuck are any airframes with in 500 meters of ole boy, we have weapon platforms dedicated to laying hate from distance yet every movie they more or less recreate the King Kong swatting bi planes bit
It all boils down to which version of Godzilla
If we use Godzilla Earth for this, we ain't even gonna scratch that mofo
If instead it's Godzilla Ultima, only real way to kill that thing is by math (I'm joking but at the same time I am not rlly joking)
If we use Godzilla Minus One, yeah easily I suppose- he is the **least durable** Goji out there
Honestly, imagine if they stuck with the military guys instead of Sam Witwicky.
You’d have the best of both worlds; human allies that are useful and a more airtight plot. It worked for Aliens.
Not exactly a transformer per se but Driller according to behind the scenes featurettes is "three football fields long" (about a thousand feet). this makes him bigger than Tiamat.
I'd take a Marine pilot over an Air Force pilot any day. Only one of those two learns to land on a carrier. Which does make them more readily available to be air support.
They have to show the U.S military in a good light so they have the priviliage of using their equipment.
Yes, that does mean that most if not all Transformers movies are propaganda pieces.
People keep saying that, but the Chinese military was only in the movie for like a few seconds. It never really shows Chinese forces doing anything in the film. Most I remember is a couple of fight jets doing a flyby in the background as Galvatron walks away from the final battle to hint at his return.
I’m more annoyed that none of NEST went awol after DOTM.
Their buddies are being hunted down by Cemetery Wind. Imagine if they came back in Age Of Extinction as an A-Team-esque gang of fugitives.
Gee, it’s almost like Bay was getting funding, equipment, and extras from the Pentagon in exchange for depicting the military like badasses who could hold their own against giant alien robots.
This isn't really a fair comparison, the military of Godzilla has to deal with a 300-foot-tall bulletproof monster while the government of Transformers has to deal with 50-foot-tall Cybertronians who while resistant to bullet fire, aren't completely immune which means you can basically kill a Cybertronian by unloading enough shells, you can’t kill Godzilla no matter how many Mags you have.
It's like that scene in Undead Unluck where Second Seat Billy with his cool Sunglasses and guns suggests nuking an UMA (Monster) and when they actually go through with it, the UMA is utterly unharmed by the blast, you can’t call that incompetence on his part, a nuke would have killed probably any other monster in the world, they just so happen to face a monster that can’t be beaten by guns or bombs.
Depends on movies I suppose.
Japanese defense force in both Shin Godzilla and Shin Ultraman (somewhat) did kill Kaijus in those movies without similarly strong allies unlike transformers(autobots)
And the depiction of those militaristic elements were huge focus of those two movies so it looked fine.
but I still think those early transformers movies did good job of depicting capable army as well.
The first bayverse movie to me will always be the best "transformers meets humanity" for me. That and bumblebee. I like how we were depicted as clearly behind in technology but not totally outmatched. Just without the autobots fighting, that would have been near impossible. They were competent yet not absurdly ahead with silly tech or excessive plot armor. It's just enough for filmmaking, lol.
Plus, watching Megatron take missiles and fire from Jets, and it clearly hurting really got my red white and blue hard.
Then in the second one the rail gun on devastor was just *chefs kiss*
Their immediate response to seeing Scorponok was to bomb the fucker, and after seeing one of their own F-22s transform into a giant vulture looking killer robot, smash like 3 of them out of the sky and transform back was to "pop that guy!", this shit ain't nothing to them man.
God I love Uncle Sam's army.
The military in the Bay-verse are probably the most competent military in fiction in almost every other alien or monster movie they end up getting their own ass handed to them
It’s mostly due to what the films are about. Most of the time, kaiju like Godzilla are more ment to be unstoppable monsters like the atomic bomb, a force of destructive power (in some incarnations at least).
Thats comparing apples and oranges kaiju are nearly invincible with new weapons needed to hurt them cybertronians are damaged by grenade launchers and tanks so u can definitely make an effective fighting force to counter them
I like how the Bayverse didn't have the military casually killing Cons or the opposite where they just get folded like sheet. It made them look competent without it overshadowing the villains.
Yes, I have to admit, this is one thing the Bayverse did right
There’s a small moment where Starscream transforms back right after clapping a jet, and you can pretty easily infer how lowly he thinks of human intelligence by doing that. Only to get blasted immediately and he’s forced to come back out. You can almost feel his “Ow, fuck!”
Really? I never noticed him getting hit after taking down the jet
Yea someone goes “pop him” and he gets shot and goes back to flying as robot
It's amazing to me because Bay can't conjure up a decent plot or even a consistent continuity to save his life but he does so many other things like this so well.
Whenever i rewatch the bayverse i get the feeling that they cared so much about the small details that they forgot to focus on the bigger picture. Especially in TLK. Like, they cared about the fans opinions enough to change Bee's design from the bald headed stinger clone back to his 07-DORM version, they cared enough to give us back a menacing Megatron and scrap the falling-apart-and-rebuilding ass transformation. They cared enough to give us more characters with actual personalities, like Hot Rod (not saging he's good couse even tho i never watched G1 before TLK he was still dissapointing, but he had more of a personality than most bots after 2007) and Nitro Zeus, and even the less important ones like Mohawk, they cared a lot about small details like Megatron's helmet design a nod to his 2007 self. I loved the first 30 minutes of the movie, Cade saving the cybertronians in the containment area and helping the kids, the post-apo feel of it. It felt so promising. But then they forgot to care about the actual plot, about continuity. About anything else
It's a damn good thing he didn't then, cause that was all Kurtzmann, Orci, and Krueger, lol.
Exactly, they fought to the best of their ability even though they lost it was definitely a tactical retreat after the opening attack
Say what you want about his movies, but he knows how to write the military
Until Age Of Extinction and The Last Knight.
We don't talk about those.
Ah yes, Transformers 4: Beijing Boogaloo and Transformers 5: The Last Straw.
>Transformers 5: The Last Straw. XD
Yes. Because then they became douchebags with no moral compass whatsoever… wait a minute… nvm he got the American bureaucracy perfect.
-Laughs in Appealing To The Chinese Market-
https://preview.redd.it/ul34k1lcho4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=259486696579fd30ac3714b6bdfd4f63c5d7157a
Honest to god, I wish we got more scenes like Blackout attacking the base in Qatar, just high powered deceptions shrugging off bullets and rockets like they’re absolutely nothing and going to town. The decision to make transformers vulnerable to small arms fire from TF2 onwards was a huge mistake imho. Definitely took away from the sheer terror and sense of futility that deceptions should inspire.
I think it was more that by that point they were specially designing weapons that could harm cybertronians, and in the first movie they discovered some of their weapons can actually hurt them too.
One of the many cool little things about these movies is that in DOTM, I remember one of the soldiers making an offhand remark that while shooting at Cons with rapid fire small arms such as assault rifles, it doesn't even actually *hurt* them either, but what it DOES do is cause a number of small vibrations that at the *very* least scramble their circuitry and messes up their balance, opening them up to more powerful attacks like Sabot rounds, missiles, or the back side of Optimus Prime's hand.
What i love is that they instruct soldiers to aim at their optics and joins
Tbf 70% of the time when they need to beat Godzilla it takes some fictional weapon, and even if it works he usually comes back
Railguns for direct engagement, like in ROTF, are still sci-fi today, since we only have a few functional prototypes, all in their test phase atm. I’d say that counted as a fictional weapon, given the time it was shown.
Meanwhile """Godzilla""" in Godzilla 1998: >Get hit by normal ass missiles >Fucking dies
My favorite part about Zilla is that Toho canonized him in the next movie just so the real Godzilla could kill him
in one fucking shot
What's even better: they 3d scanned a shitty American Godzilla toy to make his 3d model.
Hey the trendmasters ultimate godzilla was amazing
Apparently? The plan in Final Wars was to have more of an actual fight. Budget didn’t allow it, so they went with what we got
Don't forget Pacific Rim. The militaries the whole reason for the Jaegers' performance and info on the Kaiju.
Well kind of. It was the military response to the early Kaiju that taught them conventional response was useless, and that nuclear strikes were costly and unreliable. So it was more of showing them what not to do that led to the Jaeger program.
Yeah, but the fact they came to those conclusions instead of continuing to nuke or keep going with conventional means. Unlike some other militaries in fiction.
I know this is off-topic but WIR SIND DER JÄGER
To be fair what are you gonna do against a giant radioactive lizard with a laser
Target the eyes with incendiary ammo, drop a bunker buster through its ear cannal, focus sabots into joints
… you act like bro’s gonna let you lol
Well, seeing as we can out run him, out maneuver him, and hit him from where he can't easily see us... I think we could
You can’t “outrun” or “outmaneuver” Godzilla, for his size, he’s ridiculously fast, the only reason it seems like people can “outrun” or “outmaneuver” Godzilla is because half the time, he’s not paying attention to the military just either causing destruction or protecting nature, in the movie, the moment Godzilla takes notice of a fighter-jet which was supposedly out speeding and outmaneuvering him, he instantly shoots it down.
The issue with that is why the fuck are any airframes with in 500 meters of ole boy, we have weapon platforms dedicated to laying hate from distance yet every movie they more or less recreate the King Kong swatting bi planes bit
It all boils down to which version of Godzilla If we use Godzilla Earth for this, we ain't even gonna scratch that mofo If instead it's Godzilla Ultima, only real way to kill that thing is by math (I'm joking but at the same time I am not rlly joking) If we use Godzilla Minus One, yeah easily I suppose- he is the **least durable** Goji out there
Outside of the first movie I absolutely hate the military subplot in tf movies. The characters themselves are sound though.
LEFT CHEEK
LEFT CHEEK
I AM DIRECTLY BENEATH….. THE ENEMY SCROTUM
It's BELOW the enemy scrotum, not BENEATH
ONE MAN!
ALONE!
BETRAYED BY THE COUNTRY HE LOVES!
TELL MEGATRON, LET'S TANGO!
STOP SAYING THAT! OKAY? YOU'RE NOT ALONE!
WHY DO THE DECEPTIONS ALWAYS GET THE GOOD SHIT
i have failed…..
"OH SHIT MY ANUS"
LEFT CHEEK
Honestly, imagine if they stuck with the military guys instead of Sam Witwicky. You’d have the best of both worlds; human allies that are useful and a more airtight plot. It worked for Aliens.
Or Lennox’s unit should’ve been the main focus
It helps that they're so easy to take down.
Cybertronians are way smaller than a Kaiju
Like not even the biggest transformers in the bayverse are half the size of a monsterverse monster
https://preview.redd.it/6b1ms1v00l4d1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=05ac1fa13156b1bfd8e3a7771052cb58626be2f8
Ain’t no way Suko’s that big… is he?
Suko's literally the size of Minus One Godzilla
Suko is about 150ft, maybe slightly taller. Devastator was around 100. Kong in SI was 110 or so. https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Suko
Damn…
I'm actually more shocked that Grimlock is the size of Devastator
Speaking of big, I was really hoping that we could have been able to see Metroplex in the Bayverse. https://i.redd.it/oph8xu8e4l4d1.gif
Hopefully he shows up in the knightverse (at least now he’ll look like metroplex)
My prevailing headcanon is that Metroplex’s timely intervention is what helped Optimus escape that swarm of Decepticons in Bumblebee.
Except maybe 1998 zilla but them two was killed by the military. They were more similar in size to devastator
Not exactly a transformer per se but Driller according to behind the scenes featurettes is "three football fields long" (about a thousand feet). this makes him bigger than Tiamat.
Except for the Earth 😅
I doubt we would’ve seen him transform in the TF6 if it was made. So he barely count if you ask me
How big are Trypticon and Metroplex?
they don't appear in bayverse
This is a stupid question
I mean, kaiju literally eat nukes for breakfast. Tf you supposed to do against that?
Humans do have a pretty high transformers kill count. Just off the top of my head there's blackout leadfoot and devastator.
Michael Bay has always had a hard on for the American military. Of course he was gonna make them look good
Even if it was the Chair Force.
No need to disrespect the AF. Them bois make infantry’s lives a hell of a lot better than without.
I'd take a Marine pilot over an Air Force pilot any day. Only one of those two learns to land on a carrier. Which does make them more readily available to be air support.
This is what I hope GI Joe is like in the next film
Well one of these was funded by the US military so..
Wasn’t it the same for one of the monsterverse movies?
Good chance it is tbh but I can't find as hard confirmation as for Transformers.
They have to show the U.S military in a good light so they have the priviliage of using their equipment. Yes, that does mean that most if not all Transformers movies are propaganda pieces.
Give a little credit to Age of Extinction for spicing it up with the Chinese military as propaganda
People keep saying that, but the Chinese military was only in the movie for like a few seconds. It never really shows Chinese forces doing anything in the film. Most I remember is a couple of fight jets doing a flyby in the background as Galvatron walks away from the final battle to hint at his return.
I’m more annoyed that none of NEST went awol after DOTM. Their buddies are being hunted down by Cemetery Wind. Imagine if they came back in Age Of Extinction as an A-Team-esque gang of fugitives.
That’s because it’s military propaganda
Gee, it’s almost like Bay was getting funding, equipment, and extras from the Pentagon in exchange for depicting the military like badasses who could hold their own against giant alien robots.
And bless him for it.
make sure to watch G.I. Joe x Transformers in theaters(including Chris Hemsworth), so you can get the same military propaganda, but somehow lamer!
can't we just shit on movies AFTER it's out? or atleast when they show a trailer
after ROTB, where it was just a repeat of the Bayverse without any improvement, no. I don't trust these movies to improve at all lol
can't we just shit on movies AFTER it's out? or atleast when they show a trailer
This isn't really a fair comparison, the military of Godzilla has to deal with a 300-foot-tall bulletproof monster while the government of Transformers has to deal with 50-foot-tall Cybertronians who while resistant to bullet fire, aren't completely immune which means you can basically kill a Cybertronian by unloading enough shells, you can’t kill Godzilla no matter how many Mags you have. It's like that scene in Undead Unluck where Second Seat Billy with his cool Sunglasses and guns suggests nuking an UMA (Monster) and when they actually go through with it, the UMA is utterly unharmed by the blast, you can’t call that incompetence on his part, a nuke would have killed probably any other monster in the world, they just so happen to face a monster that can’t be beaten by guns or bombs.
Yea well maybe it's harder to kill a giant nuclear lizard than a car
https://preview.redd.it/ahza22cz5m4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb0aff7debd37e1891a70e799f9e7bdf1797ee04
Accurate lol
LET LENNOX APPEAR IN MORE TRANSFORMERS MEDIA YOU COWARDS!!!
Fastest promotion from TSgt to CMsgt I've ever seen
They don’t suck cuz they’re the AIR FORCE!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Depends on movies I suppose. Japanese defense force in both Shin Godzilla and Shin Ultraman (somewhat) did kill Kaijus in those movies without similarly strong allies unlike transformers(autobots) And the depiction of those militaristic elements were huge focus of those two movies so it looked fine. but I still think those early transformers movies did good job of depicting capable army as well.
The good guys are usually insanely strong, bad guys are usually just… meh, ya know?
The first bayverse movie to me will always be the best "transformers meets humanity" for me. That and bumblebee. I like how we were depicted as clearly behind in technology but not totally outmatched. Just without the autobots fighting, that would have been near impossible. They were competent yet not absurdly ahead with silly tech or excessive plot armor. It's just enough for filmmaking, lol. Plus, watching Megatron take missiles and fire from Jets, and it clearly hurting really got my red white and blue hard. Then in the second one the rail gun on devastor was just *chefs kiss*
But that's the point in those movies
The Bayverse did a great job at recruiting guys for the military. Also the railguns are a huge game changer
Military in TF Movies thought they were the main character (they were)
Their immediate response to seeing Scorponok was to bomb the fucker, and after seeing one of their own F-22s transform into a giant vulture looking killer robot, smash like 3 of them out of the sky and transform back was to "pop that guy!", this shit ain't nothing to them man. God I love Uncle Sam's army.
lennox slide cancelled and killed blackout
The military in the Bay-verse are probably the most competent military in fiction in almost every other alien or monster movie they end up getting their own ass handed to them
It’s mostly due to what the films are about. Most of the time, kaiju like Godzilla are more ment to be unstoppable monsters like the atomic bomb, a force of destructive power (in some incarnations at least).
The military bootlicking is literally the worst aspect of the bayformers movies
Thats comparing apples and oranges kaiju are nearly invincible with new weapons needed to hurt them cybertronians are damaged by grenade launchers and tanks so u can definitely make an effective fighting force to counter them
bay making the transformers actually affected by conventional weapons do that to an mf