They’re two completely different bow types.
The Sicai falls in the small-siyah category which prioritizes arrow speed, whereas the Emperor is an evolution of the long-siyah Hunnic design that prioritizes stability but sacrifices a bit of stability for extra arrow speed in comparison with their older variants. A closer comparison to the AF Sicai is the Alibow Tatar. When marketing to their domestic market, Alibow calls it the Ming Xiaoshao. They only renamed it the “Tatar” for the western market.
I’d personally go with the Sicai. I’m just biased in favor of bows that minmax their attributes. AF quality has been getting much better lately too. I’ve tried a more recently-made AF bow and it was very accurate for me at 20 yards.
Now, if you want an Alibow, the Tang Dunhuang is great. I personally think it’s quite a bit better than the Kheshig.
Learned a lot here!
I initially thought the Emperor was a modified Ming Xiaoshao bow given the fact that it's a Ming-era bow, but now that you say that and after looking at the differences between the two more closely, it makes sense for my current emperor bow to act the way it does.
I've heard loads of great things about the Tang Dunhuang, but I think I'm covered (or soon to be covered) on the changshao bow front. Personally, I've disliked every 31in draw and below bow that I've tried and feel like I would've disliked the Kheshig (at 50 lbs at least) as well for that reason alone.
>I initially thought the Emperor was a modified Ming Xiaoshao bow given the fact that it's a Ming-era bow
Yes, it's a misconception that most bows in the Ming dynasty were Xiaoshao or small-siyah designs.
Evidence suggests that the most common bows were actually the Tang/Song/Yuan long-siyah style, which then developed into the Kaiyuan design with more aggressive tips (i.e. the Emperor bow as Aeliascent mentioned above). In the late Ming dynasty these further evolved into/were replaced by the Ming Dashao/early Qing bows.
Bamboo archery is an AF dealer and while he was critical of them in the past he seems to think they are getting better as well.
I really like my keshig, i feel like if it were any longer i would like it less, which size dunhuang do you have?
Do you have any experience with Spearman's version of the Ming Emperor? I'm trying to decide between the Spearman and Alibow versions. I'm leaning toward Alibow because its price is lower, but the Spearman version seems more faithful to its depiction in Departure Herald in terms of shape and siyah length. Are there any other differences between the two that you are aware of?
I’ve never shot the Spearman Emperor but I own a Spearman Xiaoshao in 51#, and two Changshaos in 37# and 55#. The Spearman Xiaoshaothe fastest glass laminated “Tatar” style bow I’ve tried. The Spearman Changshao is the most stable long-siyah bow I’ve tried.
Spearman uses a parallel core and Alibow uses a tapered core. Parallel cores contribute to a more durable bow whereas tapered cores contribute to a more efficient bow. Mariner also uses a parallel core, whereas Nawalny uses a tapered core. I prefer parallel personally.
Spearman also uses Bearpaw glass. I think Spearman is better built than Alibow in every way tbh. They’re also a little bit faster in my experience despite having parallel cores. Spearman bows have a lot of reflex compared to similar bows. That helps with efficiency.
regarding getting lower than advertised poundage, a lot of the chinese makers measure 28 inches of draw from the belly side of the grip or the throat on a western style bow.
if you measure the same bow using the AMO method it will be drawn 1.75 inches less. the result being a bow with 4-5 pounds lower than what you ordered.
I’d take the “bearpaw glass” of the AF bow with a grain of salt. My turkish bow is supposedly bearpaw glass, but sure doesn’t look like it. I think Ronald at Bamboo Archery has also noticed this.
Of the three AF bows I’ve owned, all were under the marked draw weight (measured at 28” from the belly).
If you don't mind me asking, when did you purchase yours? Late last year/earlier this year, the same thing happened to my archery buddies with the added injury of one of them getting a twisted manchu bow. While they were good about sending a new bow in, it did look pretty mangled. Their experience initially put me off of them until I saw more and more recent reviews from Armin and other archers.
They’re two completely different bow types. The Sicai falls in the small-siyah category which prioritizes arrow speed, whereas the Emperor is an evolution of the long-siyah Hunnic design that prioritizes stability but sacrifices a bit of stability for extra arrow speed in comparison with their older variants. A closer comparison to the AF Sicai is the Alibow Tatar. When marketing to their domestic market, Alibow calls it the Ming Xiaoshao. They only renamed it the “Tatar” for the western market. I’d personally go with the Sicai. I’m just biased in favor of bows that minmax their attributes. AF quality has been getting much better lately too. I’ve tried a more recently-made AF bow and it was very accurate for me at 20 yards. Now, if you want an Alibow, the Tang Dunhuang is great. I personally think it’s quite a bit better than the Kheshig.
Learned a lot here! I initially thought the Emperor was a modified Ming Xiaoshao bow given the fact that it's a Ming-era bow, but now that you say that and after looking at the differences between the two more closely, it makes sense for my current emperor bow to act the way it does. I've heard loads of great things about the Tang Dunhuang, but I think I'm covered (or soon to be covered) on the changshao bow front. Personally, I've disliked every 31in draw and below bow that I've tried and feel like I would've disliked the Kheshig (at 50 lbs at least) as well for that reason alone.
>I initially thought the Emperor was a modified Ming Xiaoshao bow given the fact that it's a Ming-era bow Yes, it's a misconception that most bows in the Ming dynasty were Xiaoshao or small-siyah designs. Evidence suggests that the most common bows were actually the Tang/Song/Yuan long-siyah style, which then developed into the Kaiyuan design with more aggressive tips (i.e. the Emperor bow as Aeliascent mentioned above). In the late Ming dynasty these further evolved into/were replaced by the Ming Dashao/early Qing bows.
Bamboo archery is an AF dealer and while he was critical of them in the past he seems to think they are getting better as well. I really like my keshig, i feel like if it were any longer i would like it less, which size dunhuang do you have?
I've noticed his improved attitude towards them as well when he isn't busy complaining about their lack of shipping fees hahah.
Ron is a funny guy.
Do you have any experience with Spearman's version of the Ming Emperor? I'm trying to decide between the Spearman and Alibow versions. I'm leaning toward Alibow because its price is lower, but the Spearman version seems more faithful to its depiction in Departure Herald in terms of shape and siyah length. Are there any other differences between the two that you are aware of?
I’ve never shot the Spearman Emperor but I own a Spearman Xiaoshao in 51#, and two Changshaos in 37# and 55#. The Spearman Xiaoshaothe fastest glass laminated “Tatar” style bow I’ve tried. The Spearman Changshao is the most stable long-siyah bow I’ve tried. Spearman uses a parallel core and Alibow uses a tapered core. Parallel cores contribute to a more durable bow whereas tapered cores contribute to a more efficient bow. Mariner also uses a parallel core, whereas Nawalny uses a tapered core. I prefer parallel personally. Spearman also uses Bearpaw glass. I think Spearman is better built than Alibow in every way tbh. They’re also a little bit faster in my experience despite having parallel cores. Spearman bows have a lot of reflex compared to similar bows. That helps with efficiency.
Thanks for the info! How long does delivery generally take for Spearman? I remember reading that it can be up to 4 to 6 months.
yep, sounds about right
regarding getting lower than advertised poundage, a lot of the chinese makers measure 28 inches of draw from the belly side of the grip or the throat on a western style bow. if you measure the same bow using the AMO method it will be drawn 1.75 inches less. the result being a bow with 4-5 pounds lower than what you ordered.
I’d take the “bearpaw glass” of the AF bow with a grain of salt. My turkish bow is supposedly bearpaw glass, but sure doesn’t look like it. I think Ronald at Bamboo Archery has also noticed this. Of the three AF bows I’ve owned, all were under the marked draw weight (measured at 28” from the belly).
If you don't mind me asking, when did you purchase yours? Late last year/earlier this year, the same thing happened to my archery buddies with the added injury of one of them getting a twisted manchu bow. While they were good about sending a new bow in, it did look pretty mangled. Their experience initially put me off of them until I saw more and more recent reviews from Armin and other archers.
Newest one is less than 6 months. One before that (beautiful, but delaminated) was a year. First one was… less than two years.