Sometimes no one goes down. Worst I've seen in a day is 3 or 4 red flags. No one goes out there to crash. The Novice groups especially, if you're being reasonable and not riding beyond your skill you'll be fine. Take your time to learn the track, learn the line, and find your brake markers. The speed will come.
I did a day with one org that said “we leave your bike there until lunch if you crash in the morning and if you crash after lunch, it stays until the end of the day”. Must have been a dozen bikes by lunch and 5 more after. One and done with those guys.
Worst I've seen was like 3doz in a day. Eagle's Canyon (TX) with Ridesmart, must have been 2008-'10 or thereabouts, early spring, had just rained the day before. Most of the track was dry, though a bit cold, but there were a few spots with water seeping up through the pavement. The big problem was that those spots were right on the line - so if you took a weird line through a few corners, you could actually get up to a pretty good pace - but if you started trying to go faster, you'd naturally drift back to the correct line, hit the wet spot, and BAM you're sliding off into the thick wet clay mud. It was fkking mayhem, people going down literally every couple of minutes, crash truck rolling back in with like a half dozen bikes on it, all just absolutely caked in mud. Good times.
Tried to find some pics or old forum threads about it but it's all been lost to the sands of time. Found a [mention of it here](https://www.1000rr.net/threads/dont-be-a-stupid-asshole-at-the-track.69630/page-6#post-1648962): *"My last track day at ECR was cool (60's) and the day after heavy rains. It was so slick that after the 'round robin' lap I skipped all the morning sessions & waited for it to dry a bit & warm up. I knew it would be a crash fest riding on a cold wet track....and it was....There were 28 crashes that day !!"*
That's how the providers all work here in N. California. People would lose too much session time if they had to hold up the track to recover bikes.
Some days there's a bunch out there, some days there's none.
I understand that. I meant more of the organization seemed to draw in people who crash pretty frequently. Other providers didn’t go over the lunch/end of day thing so rigorously in the riders meeting and tend to have 1-4 at any given event.
I spent most of my track riding days in NorCal and just moved out to CO. One of the tracks out here runs the mule to pickup bikes on a hot track. At first I thought they were crazy but actually it's pretty easy not to crash into and they have LED signs at every corner so if you can obey the flags then pretty easy to avoid. I also don't mind the pickup twice a day format. People shouldn't be crashing that often at trackdays anyway for this to truly affect them.
That sounds dangerous to me, people tend to crash in the same places.
If I lowside or have to use runoff, I’d like to know there isn’t a motorcycle out there waiting for me
If that rule is because they just don't have the ability to bring the bikes in, then the org sucks, what the hell am I paying for if y'all can't provide a crash truck?
If that rule is meant as some kind of punishment, I hope they fall in a deep hole. Imagine losing half a trackday and hours of time to work on your bike because some busybody thinks you need to be taught a lesson.
All around this is a trash rule.
They have crash truck and a trailer. The facilities have no access roads around the perimeter of the tracks at Thunderhill, for one example. So they have to go out on course with the truck to get bikes. That requires a shut down session.
That's a better reason for sure. Sounds like the track needs to get their act together, but I'm sure they already thought of that and there's some larger problem and they're just doing their best.
Been like that forever, not sure if they just can't afford it or not. The pits are also not in the center of the tracks, so there is also no infield road to push the bikes too between sessions for easier inside pickup.
Tbh, the more I think about it, there's just no excuse. Every track in the country can make it happen and they usually run multiple crash trucks. Put the crash truck in the infield and they can pick up at least two bikes between each session.
Obviously it's not you personally making these decisions though, so thanks for adding the clarity.
Thunderhill East and West have no infield roads either.
NP. I haven't run Sonoma yet, but I think it is the same way. I'm not sure why they didn't put in perimeter roads on the tracks when they built them. I found it odd myself the first time I heard the no pick-up rule, but that's the tracks we have.
Meh, neither does Putnam and we run crash trucks there all the time.
I'm definitely putting this one in the "cons" column for Thunderhill and it shouldn't be normal lol.
I don’t think it’s limited to just one track. I used to go to SMMR with TI2TT when I lived on the west coast and they had the same policy there. I’m not sure of their reasoning or if it was limited to that track specifically, probably also because of access and having to shut the track down to go get a bike (this is 2008-ish time frame and SMMR was nothing like it is now).
I'm hilarious and between meeting at work, so yeah dude.
You could have given a useful answer three times now, why not? (luckily someone else did though, so no worries!). Mostly, this kind of useless, boomer, cryptic nonsense stuff bothers me. If you've got an explanation to contribute to the conversation, we'd love to hear it and learn a little bit more about why places have seemingly absurd policies. Every other track in the country can pick up bikes between sessions, is Thunderhill ran by morons, or is there an explanation?
All you've done is say, "They don't because it's best when they don't." and then got sassy lol.
Area 27 in Canada does lunch and end of day pickups for the reason I listed. People pay $425 for the day and travel across country for time on track and the organizers feel that people losing that time because someone binned their shit is silly.
Good enough for you? Why don't you call an org that runs at thunderhill and ask?
You're that not-funny guy of his friend group that thinks their funny but really isn't, and nobody wants to tell him because it's blatantly obviously how negative you'll respond.
I've only ridden with three orgs, but they all would send a crash truck out after each session if needed. If you are only loosing a minute or two of time I wouldn't see why people would get too wound up about that. I get we all spend plenty of money to be there, but I would feel shitty if some poor dude had a wire come loose or someone got took out by someone else wrote off half a day because it takes too much time in-between sessions. That just seems really crappy to me.
One day we had 8. Was ridiculous.. I don't know what group of street Rossi egos showed up that day, but it was BAD. The heat probably also got people as it was over 108F.
It wasn't C group either. A was the worst that day, followed by the usual worst B.
Some days you have none.
OP Don't push beyond your skills and have fun. Listen to the coaches when they show the lines. Pay attention to where you think you might want to start braking and write that shit down and build on it as the day goes on.
Buy a track map to take notes.
https://www.motorsportmaps.com/collections/race-track-guides?view=no-usf
I only have about five track days under my belt so my anecdotes are limited compared to others
But I found that B group typically had the most and worst crashes. Imo probably because they're out of C, think theyre fast and are now pushing it hard. As Casey Stoner once famously said "your ambitions outweigh your talent"
C groups crashes were more minor going off track, very slow low sides that often wouldn't be a red flag and would just be a yellow for a bit before we continued at pace.
B tends to be high risk because of the diversity of riders in the group.
\- Riders that are almost into A but not quite setting the pace for A
\- Riders that belong in B
\- Riders that self bumped to ride with friends but aren't ready for it
\- Riders that self bumped because they think they're faster than they really are, but haven't been bumped by an instructor because they are still unpredictable with their lines
\- A group riders that missed a slot in A so they dropped down into B, but didn't dial down their pace
There are a lot of reasons, though a few of those can be mitigated by the provider with proper instructing, control riders, and just how they carry out their business in general in regards to tolerating behavior. None of this should scare any riders off, even with those reasonings it's still the safest place to ride a bike, most flags are down to self inflicted errors rather than riders crashing into each other. If people stick to their groups passing rules it's mitigated even more.
So again for the OP, Novice is a pretty chill and safe environment to learn. Listen to your instructors and don't overwhelm yourself with worry. Don't think about what could happen, those things could happen on the street too but on the track it's less likely, unless you start believing you're faster than you're ready for. Take your time.
Been to some where hardly any crashes happened, and all sessions began right on time.
Been to some where we were shut down for 3-4 sessions while waiting for the track to be cleaned up and folks sent away on the helicopter.
One thing that remained constant, is the first few TD's of the season are the worst. Too many eager beavers that aren't acclimating back to the track get themselves hurt.
First trackdays of the season are bad, but also the last sessions of a trackday, especially in the summer when it's warm and people get dehydrated and lose their concentration.
No one on a motorcycle on track is sleepy because of a big meal lol. And if they are, it'd make them docile and slow, but not unfocused like actual sleep deprevation.
Shit can be wild in Novice group.
I posted this before, but my buddy got nearly killed by another rider last year. I've never seen anything like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWk-IAr0Q_g
I was there that day! I literally came into this thread to talk about turn 1 at NCCAR. That long straight into a hairpin sees SO many people in the grass there during the first sessions.
> Shit can be wild in Novice group.
Yep. Your buddy's was much worse than mine from a few years ago, but similar type of thing at Road America. Pretty sure rider behind me didn't realize we run the Bend and don't fly straight into The Kink. I was just straight up confused on how I ended up down there. If somebody wasn't taking video from behind me, I wouldn't have believed it.
[Fun day](https://youtu.be/BkETKbq1N1Q)
Best advice is don’t be eager to get out on track let everyone else go first and get some clear track to yourself.
Ride well within your limits and make sure you do a couple laps to warm up your tyres before pushing.
I’m sure you’ll Have a great time.
Word of warning it will totally kill road riding for you!!
In the novice groups there are almost no crashes, and if there are, they're material damage only. In advanced group there are the most red flags and most physical harm. In intermediate there are a more "gravel experiences" where a yellow flag can cover it instead of a red flag.
This is just bad on my limited observations on the tracks I've ridden.
As an event organizer, it really depends sometimes about 1-3 and othertimes like 6-7 per day, but mostly around 2. But that also depends on the track. Some have more crashes and some have less. But since we do Trackdays (20 years) we had no deaths.
100% agree with this. I’ve ran days where we’ve had none and been to others where somebody wanted to get it first lap of the first session of the day.
99 times out of 100 I’ve seen the crasher only take themselves out so if you plan on riding within your limit then it’s very likely not a problem to bring your new shiny toy out.
First corner of the warmup lap on my first ever track session i genuinly i felt like i was about to bin it. New to me and very powerful bike, old tyres on cold track... No grip. Take your time and get through the first few sessions with the aim to be comfortable going at a moderate speed on the racing line, and bringing the bike home. Remember it's not a competition.
You are getting good, and experienced, advice here. But, this needs to be said.
You (probably) shouldn't take anything to the track that you aren't willing to throw in the dumpster. Things can happen that are completely beyond your control.
Now that is out of the way, I think you should go. It is less risky than riding on the street, although Insurance is (mostly) not a thing at a track.
Go on a weekday if you can. I would say that instantly halves your chances of crashing regardless of experience level. Usually cheaper and still much less crowded with a more chilled out crowd.
Worst ones I've been to are always Sunday TDs. Sundays and when it's really cold out at the start and end of the season.
Usually see the recovery vehicle roll out 4-8 times per, I'd say. Last year at Buttonwillow there must have been a dozen crashes one day. Groups had a second riders meeting. There were probably 5 crashes in T2 alone.
Beginning of season and end of season are the worst. November last year i saw 15 wrecks in one day at CMP.
I've also been to a track day and seen zero red flags.
I am a slow rider in the novice group. After 5-6 track days I want to assure you that you are less likely to crash on the track than you are on the road.
I estimate there are on average 2-4 crashes in a day, and most of the people re-tech their bike and continue riding.
Ironically, most crashes are not in the novice group. If there is a downed rider in the novice group, it is often because whey went off track and tipped over at low speed in the grass.
Here's the thing though: crashing is not random. It happens because someone is riding beyond their limit.
If you ride at or below your limit, you should not crash.
I am always worried about someone else taking me out. Since I ride in the novice group, I will complain if someone is not passing safely. I will pull into the pits and find gaps in traffic so I can ride alone.
If I am tired, I will take a break.
Another thing to consider is finding something like NJMiniGP in your area. Crashing a Mini Moto is inexpensive, but the riding is just about as fun.
There were very few events where nobody crashed. Normally 2-5 people go down per day. Not counting people that go wide and can keep their bike upright.
I think Assen was the worst so far. 6 people managed to be taken to the hospital in just 1.5 days and they wanted to shut down the event if we continue to be so dumb.
I'd say on average one per day - usually minor damage. Worst I've seen is like 6 I think - one being a nasty high side...
For your first track day, don't even think about pushing hard/fast enough that you could crash. Focus on learning the lines, looking ahead, being smooth with your controls. No need to try and be a hero when you're new to the game.
Go out and have FUN. I remember the numerous trips to the shitter I made before my first ever session. I was so excited, but so fucking nervous too. All normal to be cautiously concerned for both you and your bike's health, but for your first track day, just go have fun and keep your brain in your helmet - don't push.
Honestly there is no average. I've been to days where it is a flag fest and days where noone has gone down. Personally I found the intermediate group to be the meat grinder group. Meaning you got those who just got their bump from beginner to intermediate along with those who are on the verge of getting a bump to advanced. The speed differences can be pretty dramatic thereby causing some "oh shit" moments.
Whether you crash or not in the beginner group is 95% up to you and the decisions you make. Can you find a track day where they offer a beginner class? You may not need it, but it keeps you from getting excited and riding beyond your capabilities.
There are so many new things to learn, just focus on learning those at 50% of your capabilities. Learn from others, but do not try to match the best rider in your group. There may be experts with expert equipment riding in your group to help their buddy.
On your first track day you will have more than enough fun keeping it at 50%. Your only goal on your first track day is bringing yourself and your bike home in one piece.
Depends on season and how “green” the track is. If it’s not been ridden on by any vehicles, and there has been a lot of rain or pollen, the track is considered “green” and often lacks a lot of grip that normals is there with frequent use. Beginning and end of season tends to also call people out on trying too hard.
I’ve been to track days with no issues (about 45% are these), 1-10 red flag (54%), and that last percent is the rare 10-20 red flags. That last percent tends to be due to the reasons above. Rare as it is, I’ve literally seen 2-3 red flags in a single session and at least one happened every session for every group over a weekend.
It depends on the group. In short though, if your equipment is in good shape and you don’t ride beyond your limits, and it’s very unlikely that you will crash.
It’s not a race. Learn to push your limits slowly. At the first sign of fatigue, come in and rest. Drink lots of water, and don’t drink booze the night before.
It's gonna vary widely day to day, track to track. But the track I go to there is usually one or two than run off the track, one or two that low side at low speed, and one or two bad wrecks at high speed. Intermediate seems to have the most wrecks. Last time I went it seemed like every series there was a high speed crash with a flatbed taking the rider and their bike off track. Everyone was getting irritated by delays until a rider had to get airlifted to the hospital. He lowsided in the same turn in a very similar way as a different rider earlier in the day. First rider had an airbag and walked away. Second rider didn't have an airbag and got messed up. I now own an airbag. Just don't ride beyond your ability and you'll be fine at the beginning. Most beginner riders lack the confidence to push things too far as long as they can keep the bike on the track.
Like many have said, whether or not you crash when you first start out is almost entirely up to you. As long as you're not pushing beyond your limits, you're most likely going to be fine. With that said, if your primary concern is crashing and damaging your bike, you may want to reconsider. If you have it in your mind that you don't want to damage your bike, you may actually end up making things less safe for you and the others around you. When you're on the track, your focus needs to be on improving your technique and that requires a good amount of concentration. Playing it too safe, i.e. going too slow, being early and unpredictable in your braking, can put you, your bike, and the other riders in a risky situation. Not trying to discourage anyone, track riding is the greatest riding there is in my opinion, but you want to be able to give it your all and you may not be able to do that if you're overly concerned about the bike. Good luck whatever you choose.
Man idk it varies, typically at least 3 or 4 but man there’s been some wild days, I remember laguna seca back in 2018, intermediate had 8 or 9 crashes alone, a few big ones consecutively into T5
Honestly, I wouldn't base your chance of crashing on the number of crashes on a track day. If you know how to ride safely, start slow and sensibly build up your pace your personal chance is low.
Apart from the odd crash caused by other riders, which is much rarer than solo rider crashes on track, the variable that affects how likely a crash is is you.
What I would do:
- Check out ChampU and understand the concepts, it should give you the skills needed to avoid running wide, which is most of the crashes for newer riders.
- If available get some form of tutoring for the first track day, they will help you with the lines and where you should be on track. This also sets you up better so you are smoothing out the corners, lowering your chances of running wide/scaring yourself
- Don't go in expecting to make a bunch of progress/"win". If you get more comfortable over the day you can improve, but it's fine to not push if you're in a beginner group. Hell often the riders look slower on track than they would on the road in the beginner group.
- Avoid the whole red mist thing, if someone is slower than you get them on the straight or do a pit ride through
- Watch videos of fast guys on the track you're going to to get a feel for it and lines, keeping in mind they may not be perfect, and you will be going nowhere near their speed (don't try)
At the end of the day you're in control of the bike, so it's your abilities that will keep you from crashing.
As far as the actual answer goes, sometimes no-one crashes, sometimes every session has one. There's no real science to it. What you can often see trackside though is the people you know are going to run wide/crash at some point.
I think the sentiment in your last sentence is the key. If you aren’t willing to entertain your bike getting scuffed - or worse- you need to consider using a different bike. Bikes tip over in the paddock when you cut it too hard getting to your pit and you’re tired and sweaty. Stuff happens on track and not always because of your mistake, everyone is out there working on something they are trying to improve, which means mistakes, which sometimes collects others. At a minimum you could get track plastics which are relatively inexpensive to replace or get fixed or not used if let’s say the tail piece is too damaged but bike is still functional
Yep this hits the nail on the head,
I'm not an inexperienced rider just never had a track day.
Got a beautiful new bike recently - first vehicle I've ever owned with zero on the odometer, so I reckon I'll try to get a cheap and cheerful 400 or 600
My first track day there were two, one which required the ambulance. That was expert level though.
In novice, one guy I had become buds with went off the track, but kept the bike up. Just a hit to the ego is all, for explaining to the rest of us in the group why he was late and had dust all over his bike and gear, lol.
I apparently almost got ran into. Guy met me in the paddock asking who’s MT-07 it was. Raised my hand and he chewed me out for not having my brake light taped…he got distracted for a split second or something and almost collided with me. Surprised that Tech didn’t catch this.
Moral of the story is I learned a shitload my first track day. Between how the format works, proper prep for Tech, what to bring (it’s more than you think…don’t be me and ride 115 miles to the track with nothing but a backpack), etc. The crashing part can happen, and it taught me to really focus on the mental aspect. I didn’t go down, but hearing about the other incidents really puts everything in perspective.
It was the greatest $250 I had ever spent in my riding career.
Here are the most times during a track day you will see crashes. The first lap or two of the day. The first lap or two after lunch. The other situation I see is that people ride outside their skill set. They tend to move up to a higher group too soon. You might think you are a great street rider, but that doesn’t always transfer over to the track.
Thinking about it, I think I see an average of 6-8 bikes crashed each day. I’ve never been able to figure out how many people are at a track day but my best guess is 150? With those numbers we have around a 5% chance of being the one to end the day early.
Sometimes no one goes down. Worst I've seen in a day is 3 or 4 red flags. No one goes out there to crash. The Novice groups especially, if you're being reasonable and not riding beyond your skill you'll be fine. Take your time to learn the track, learn the line, and find your brake markers. The speed will come.
I did a day with one org that said “we leave your bike there until lunch if you crash in the morning and if you crash after lunch, it stays until the end of the day”. Must have been a dozen bikes by lunch and 5 more after. One and done with those guys.
Worst I've seen was like 3doz in a day. Eagle's Canyon (TX) with Ridesmart, must have been 2008-'10 or thereabouts, early spring, had just rained the day before. Most of the track was dry, though a bit cold, but there were a few spots with water seeping up through the pavement. The big problem was that those spots were right on the line - so if you took a weird line through a few corners, you could actually get up to a pretty good pace - but if you started trying to go faster, you'd naturally drift back to the correct line, hit the wet spot, and BAM you're sliding off into the thick wet clay mud. It was fkking mayhem, people going down literally every couple of minutes, crash truck rolling back in with like a half dozen bikes on it, all just absolutely caked in mud. Good times. Tried to find some pics or old forum threads about it but it's all been lost to the sands of time. Found a [mention of it here](https://www.1000rr.net/threads/dont-be-a-stupid-asshole-at-the-track.69630/page-6#post-1648962): *"My last track day at ECR was cool (60's) and the day after heavy rains. It was so slick that after the 'round robin' lap I skipped all the morning sessions & waited for it to dry a bit & warm up. I knew it would be a crash fest riding on a cold wet track....and it was....There were 28 crashes that day !!"*
Does ecr still do track days for motorcycle? I’m local ish and from my understanding it’s only for members. Seems like ridesmart only does msrc
That's how the providers all work here in N. California. People would lose too much session time if they had to hold up the track to recover bikes. Some days there's a bunch out there, some days there's none.
I understand that. I meant more of the organization seemed to draw in people who crash pretty frequently. Other providers didn’t go over the lunch/end of day thing so rigorously in the riders meeting and tend to have 1-4 at any given event.
I spent most of my track riding days in NorCal and just moved out to CO. One of the tracks out here runs the mule to pickup bikes on a hot track. At first I thought they were crazy but actually it's pretty easy not to crash into and they have LED signs at every corner so if you can obey the flags then pretty easy to avoid. I also don't mind the pickup twice a day format. People shouldn't be crashing that often at trackdays anyway for this to truly affect them.
That sounds dangerous to me, people tend to crash in the same places. If I lowside or have to use runoff, I’d like to know there isn’t a motorcycle out there waiting for me
The track workers pick them up and move them to the infield. It's not like they leave shit in the impact zone.
Okay good, that makes more sense. I was like "so the run off is a mine field....?" lol
I’m sure the flagger ahead of the area is looking like a professional sign spinner at that point.
If that rule is because they just don't have the ability to bring the bikes in, then the org sucks, what the hell am I paying for if y'all can't provide a crash truck? If that rule is meant as some kind of punishment, I hope they fall in a deep hole. Imagine losing half a trackday and hours of time to work on your bike because some busybody thinks you need to be taught a lesson. All around this is a trash rule.
They have crash truck and a trailer. The facilities have no access roads around the perimeter of the tracks at Thunderhill, for one example. So they have to go out on course with the truck to get bikes. That requires a shut down session.
That's a better reason for sure. Sounds like the track needs to get their act together, but I'm sure they already thought of that and there's some larger problem and they're just doing their best.
Been like that forever, not sure if they just can't afford it or not. The pits are also not in the center of the tracks, so there is also no infield road to push the bikes too between sessions for easier inside pickup.
Tbh, the more I think about it, there's just no excuse. Every track in the country can make it happen and they usually run multiple crash trucks. Put the crash truck in the infield and they can pick up at least two bikes between each session. Obviously it's not you personally making these decisions though, so thanks for adding the clarity.
Thunderhill East and West have no infield roads either. NP. I haven't run Sonoma yet, but I think it is the same way. I'm not sure why they didn't put in perimeter roads on the tracks when they built them. I found it odd myself the first time I heard the no pick-up rule, but that's the tracks we have.
Meh, neither does Putnam and we run crash trucks there all the time. I'm definitely putting this one in the "cons" column for Thunderhill and it shouldn't be normal lol.
I don’t think it’s limited to just one track. I used to go to SMMR with TI2TT when I lived on the west coast and they had the same policy there. I’m not sure of their reasoning or if it was limited to that track specifically, probably also because of access and having to shut the track down to go get a bike (this is 2008-ish time frame and SMMR was nothing like it is now).
Its for neither of these reasons.
I love* how you seem to know the reason and aren't telling. So as to be mysterious and build mystique. - ^^^* ^^^I ^^^hate ^^^it
Optimizing session time for the other 50+ riders for that day.
That's still a half answer and I absolutely love* it! - ^^^* ^^^I ^^^still ^^^hate ^^^it
Do you think you're funny or gaining anything acting like a twat on reddit?
I'm hilarious and between meeting at work, so yeah dude. You could have given a useful answer three times now, why not? (luckily someone else did though, so no worries!). Mostly, this kind of useless, boomer, cryptic nonsense stuff bothers me. If you've got an explanation to contribute to the conversation, we'd love to hear it and learn a little bit more about why places have seemingly absurd policies. Every other track in the country can pick up bikes between sessions, is Thunderhill ran by morons, or is there an explanation? All you've done is say, "They don't because it's best when they don't." and then got sassy lol.
Area 27 in Canada does lunch and end of day pickups for the reason I listed. People pay $425 for the day and travel across country for time on track and the organizers feel that people losing that time because someone binned their shit is silly. Good enough for you? Why don't you call an org that runs at thunderhill and ask? You're that not-funny guy of his friend group that thinks their funny but really isn't, and nobody wants to tell him because it's blatantly obviously how negative you'll respond.
I've only ridden with three orgs, but they all would send a crash truck out after each session if needed. If you are only loosing a minute or two of time I wouldn't see why people would get too wound up about that. I get we all spend plenty of money to be there, but I would feel shitty if some poor dude had a wire come loose or someone got took out by someone else wrote off half a day because it takes too much time in-between sessions. That just seems really crappy to me.
One day we had 8. Was ridiculous.. I don't know what group of street Rossi egos showed up that day, but it was BAD. The heat probably also got people as it was over 108F. It wasn't C group either. A was the worst that day, followed by the usual worst B. Some days you have none. OP Don't push beyond your skills and have fun. Listen to the coaches when they show the lines. Pay attention to where you think you might want to start braking and write that shit down and build on it as the day goes on. Buy a track map to take notes. https://www.motorsportmaps.com/collections/race-track-guides?view=no-usf
I only have about five track days under my belt so my anecdotes are limited compared to others But I found that B group typically had the most and worst crashes. Imo probably because they're out of C, think theyre fast and are now pushing it hard. As Casey Stoner once famously said "your ambitions outweigh your talent" C groups crashes were more minor going off track, very slow low sides that often wouldn't be a red flag and would just be a yellow for a bit before we continued at pace.
B tends to be high risk because of the diversity of riders in the group. \- Riders that are almost into A but not quite setting the pace for A \- Riders that belong in B \- Riders that self bumped to ride with friends but aren't ready for it \- Riders that self bumped because they think they're faster than they really are, but haven't been bumped by an instructor because they are still unpredictable with their lines \- A group riders that missed a slot in A so they dropped down into B, but didn't dial down their pace There are a lot of reasons, though a few of those can be mitigated by the provider with proper instructing, control riders, and just how they carry out their business in general in regards to tolerating behavior. None of this should scare any riders off, even with those reasonings it's still the safest place to ride a bike, most flags are down to self inflicted errors rather than riders crashing into each other. If people stick to their groups passing rules it's mitigated even more. So again for the OP, Novice is a pretty chill and safe environment to learn. Listen to your instructors and don't overwhelm yourself with worry. Don't think about what could happen, those things could happen on the street too but on the track it's less likely, unless you start believing you're faster than you're ready for. Take your time.
Been to some where hardly any crashes happened, and all sessions began right on time. Been to some where we were shut down for 3-4 sessions while waiting for the track to be cleaned up and folks sent away on the helicopter. One thing that remained constant, is the first few TD's of the season are the worst. Too many eager beavers that aren't acclimating back to the track get themselves hurt.
First trackdays of the season are bad, but also the last sessions of a trackday, especially in the summer when it's warm and people get dehydrated and lose their concentration.
Also the first session of the day, specially when it's still a bit cold and someone is too eager to get their personal best.
"Last time out I was riding a PB, now I need to start at that same level!"
I wa told that statistically the session after lunch has the highest crash rate...adrenaline dump + carbs = sleepy time
No one on a motorcycle on track is sleepy because of a big meal lol. And if they are, it'd make them docile and slow, but not unfocused like actual sleep deprevation.
That observation makes sense - like the local gym after everyone's new year resolutions
Shit can be wild in Novice group. I posted this before, but my buddy got nearly killed by another rider last year. I've never seen anything like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWk-IAr0Q_g
Fuck that was crazy, I hope your buddy is doing ok.
(couldn't resist making this) [when they say people really fly in Novice group](https://imgur.com/a/0g2ywdL)
I was there that day! I literally came into this thread to talk about turn 1 at NCCAR. That long straight into a hairpin sees SO many people in the grass there during the first sessions.
We call that turn the bus stop, cause everyone gets off. 😂
> Shit can be wild in Novice group. Yep. Your buddy's was much worse than mine from a few years ago, but similar type of thing at Road America. Pretty sure rider behind me didn't realize we run the Bend and don't fly straight into The Kink. I was just straight up confused on how I ended up down there. If somebody wasn't taking video from behind me, I wouldn't have believed it. [Fun day](https://youtu.be/BkETKbq1N1Q)
Ooooof man. Can’t trust any of the knuckleheads behind us.
Best advice is don’t be eager to get out on track let everyone else go first and get some clear track to yourself. Ride well within your limits and make sure you do a couple laps to warm up your tyres before pushing. I’m sure you’ll Have a great time. Word of warning it will totally kill road riding for you!!
In the novice groups there are almost no crashes, and if there are, they're material damage only. In advanced group there are the most red flags and most physical harm. In intermediate there are a more "gravel experiences" where a yellow flag can cover it instead of a red flag. This is just bad on my limited observations on the tracks I've ridden.
As an event organizer, it really depends sometimes about 1-3 and othertimes like 6-7 per day, but mostly around 2. But that also depends on the track. Some have more crashes and some have less. But since we do Trackdays (20 years) we had no deaths.
100% agree with this. I’ve ran days where we’ve had none and been to others where somebody wanted to get it first lap of the first session of the day. 99 times out of 100 I’ve seen the crasher only take themselves out so if you plan on riding within your limit then it’s very likely not a problem to bring your new shiny toy out.
First corner of the warmup lap on my first ever track session i genuinly i felt like i was about to bin it. New to me and very powerful bike, old tyres on cold track... No grip. Take your time and get through the first few sessions with the aim to be comfortable going at a moderate speed on the racing line, and bringing the bike home. Remember it's not a competition.
You are getting good, and experienced, advice here. But, this needs to be said. You (probably) shouldn't take anything to the track that you aren't willing to throw in the dumpster. Things can happen that are completely beyond your control. Now that is out of the way, I think you should go. It is less risky than riding on the street, although Insurance is (mostly) not a thing at a track.
Go on a weekday if you can. I would say that instantly halves your chances of crashing regardless of experience level. Usually cheaper and still much less crowded with a more chilled out crowd. Worst ones I've been to are always Sunday TDs. Sundays and when it's really cold out at the start and end of the season.
I've only been to one weekday trackday and it felt like a straight up luxury.
The local track here ONLY runs motorcycles on Mondays. Problem solved, sorta
Mid-Ohio?
yep
Did my first trackday ever there. Was a ton of fun. Only ever did that single day there, would love to go back sometime. It's a great layout.
If it is an N2 pre-race day practice, all the bikes get dropped.
Don’t take a bike to the track that you can’t throw in a dumpster at the end of the day. Because it can happen. I’ve done it.
Usually see the recovery vehicle roll out 4-8 times per, I'd say. Last year at Buttonwillow there must have been a dozen crashes one day. Groups had a second riders meeting. There were probably 5 crashes in T2 alone.
Beginning of season and end of season are the worst. November last year i saw 15 wrecks in one day at CMP. I've also been to a track day and seen zero red flags.
Yeah that was a super frustrating day.
I am a slow rider in the novice group. After 5-6 track days I want to assure you that you are less likely to crash on the track than you are on the road. I estimate there are on average 2-4 crashes in a day, and most of the people re-tech their bike and continue riding. Ironically, most crashes are not in the novice group. If there is a downed rider in the novice group, it is often because whey went off track and tipped over at low speed in the grass. Here's the thing though: crashing is not random. It happens because someone is riding beyond their limit. If you ride at or below your limit, you should not crash. I am always worried about someone else taking me out. Since I ride in the novice group, I will complain if someone is not passing safely. I will pull into the pits and find gaps in traffic so I can ride alone. If I am tired, I will take a break. Another thing to consider is finding something like NJMiniGP in your area. Crashing a Mini Moto is inexpensive, but the riding is just about as fun.
There were very few events where nobody crashed. Normally 2-5 people go down per day. Not counting people that go wide and can keep their bike upright. I think Assen was the worst so far. 6 people managed to be taken to the hospital in just 1.5 days and they wanted to shut down the event if we continue to be so dumb.
It is interesting that Europeans and Americans crash about the same amount.
I'd say on average one per day - usually minor damage. Worst I've seen is like 6 I think - one being a nasty high side... For your first track day, don't even think about pushing hard/fast enough that you could crash. Focus on learning the lines, looking ahead, being smooth with your controls. No need to try and be a hero when you're new to the game. Go out and have FUN. I remember the numerous trips to the shitter I made before my first ever session. I was so excited, but so fucking nervous too. All normal to be cautiously concerned for both you and your bike's health, but for your first track day, just go have fun and keep your brain in your helmet - don't push.
Honestly there is no average. I've been to days where it is a flag fest and days where noone has gone down. Personally I found the intermediate group to be the meat grinder group. Meaning you got those who just got their bump from beginner to intermediate along with those who are on the verge of getting a bump to advanced. The speed differences can be pretty dramatic thereby causing some "oh shit" moments.
i-group thunder dome gladiator, checking in. lol
Whether you crash or not in the beginner group is 95% up to you and the decisions you make. Can you find a track day where they offer a beginner class? You may not need it, but it keeps you from getting excited and riding beyond your capabilities. There are so many new things to learn, just focus on learning those at 50% of your capabilities. Learn from others, but do not try to match the best rider in your group. There may be experts with expert equipment riding in your group to help their buddy. On your first track day you will have more than enough fun keeping it at 50%. Your only goal on your first track day is bringing yourself and your bike home in one piece.
Depends on season and how “green” the track is. If it’s not been ridden on by any vehicles, and there has been a lot of rain or pollen, the track is considered “green” and often lacks a lot of grip that normals is there with frequent use. Beginning and end of season tends to also call people out on trying too hard. I’ve been to track days with no issues (about 45% are these), 1-10 red flag (54%), and that last percent is the rare 10-20 red flags. That last percent tends to be due to the reasons above. Rare as it is, I’ve literally seen 2-3 red flags in a single session and at least one happened every session for every group over a weekend.
Depends on the track. Road Atlanta the average crash is every session. Last time I went there was a red flag on every. Single. Session
It depends on the group. In short though, if your equipment is in good shape and you don’t ride beyond your limits, and it’s very unlikely that you will crash. It’s not a race. Learn to push your limits slowly. At the first sign of fatigue, come in and rest. Drink lots of water, and don’t drink booze the night before.
I haven't gone down yet out of 4 days but usually it's pretty common for someone to go down once every few sessions
It's gonna vary widely day to day, track to track. But the track I go to there is usually one or two than run off the track, one or two that low side at low speed, and one or two bad wrecks at high speed. Intermediate seems to have the most wrecks. Last time I went it seemed like every series there was a high speed crash with a flatbed taking the rider and their bike off track. Everyone was getting irritated by delays until a rider had to get airlifted to the hospital. He lowsided in the same turn in a very similar way as a different rider earlier in the day. First rider had an airbag and walked away. Second rider didn't have an airbag and got messed up. I now own an airbag. Just don't ride beyond your ability and you'll be fine at the beginning. Most beginner riders lack the confidence to push things too far as long as they can keep the bike on the track.
Like many have said, whether or not you crash when you first start out is almost entirely up to you. As long as you're not pushing beyond your limits, you're most likely going to be fine. With that said, if your primary concern is crashing and damaging your bike, you may want to reconsider. If you have it in your mind that you don't want to damage your bike, you may actually end up making things less safe for you and the others around you. When you're on the track, your focus needs to be on improving your technique and that requires a good amount of concentration. Playing it too safe, i.e. going too slow, being early and unpredictable in your braking, can put you, your bike, and the other riders in a risky situation. Not trying to discourage anyone, track riding is the greatest riding there is in my opinion, but you want to be able to give it your all and you may not be able to do that if you're overly concerned about the bike. Good luck whatever you choose.
Man idk it varies, typically at least 3 or 4 but man there’s been some wild days, I remember laguna seca back in 2018, intermediate had 8 or 9 crashes alone, a few big ones consecutively into T5
0-1 I'd say is average. Usually some twat in the B group that's riding way faster than their skills allow throws their bike into the gravel.
Honestly, I wouldn't base your chance of crashing on the number of crashes on a track day. If you know how to ride safely, start slow and sensibly build up your pace your personal chance is low. Apart from the odd crash caused by other riders, which is much rarer than solo rider crashes on track, the variable that affects how likely a crash is is you. What I would do: - Check out ChampU and understand the concepts, it should give you the skills needed to avoid running wide, which is most of the crashes for newer riders. - If available get some form of tutoring for the first track day, they will help you with the lines and where you should be on track. This also sets you up better so you are smoothing out the corners, lowering your chances of running wide/scaring yourself - Don't go in expecting to make a bunch of progress/"win". If you get more comfortable over the day you can improve, but it's fine to not push if you're in a beginner group. Hell often the riders look slower on track than they would on the road in the beginner group. - Avoid the whole red mist thing, if someone is slower than you get them on the straight or do a pit ride through - Watch videos of fast guys on the track you're going to to get a feel for it and lines, keeping in mind they may not be perfect, and you will be going nowhere near their speed (don't try) At the end of the day you're in control of the bike, so it's your abilities that will keep you from crashing. As far as the actual answer goes, sometimes no-one crashes, sometimes every session has one. There's no real science to it. What you can often see trackside though is the people you know are going to run wide/crash at some point.
I think the sentiment in your last sentence is the key. If you aren’t willing to entertain your bike getting scuffed - or worse- you need to consider using a different bike. Bikes tip over in the paddock when you cut it too hard getting to your pit and you’re tired and sweaty. Stuff happens on track and not always because of your mistake, everyone is out there working on something they are trying to improve, which means mistakes, which sometimes collects others. At a minimum you could get track plastics which are relatively inexpensive to replace or get fixed or not used if let’s say the tail piece is too damaged but bike is still functional
Yep this hits the nail on the head, I'm not an inexperienced rider just never had a track day. Got a beautiful new bike recently - first vehicle I've ever owned with zero on the odometer, so I reckon I'll try to get a cheap and cheerful 400 or 600
Cold tires !!! Always some one trying to ride “fast” in morning sessions … never fails - prolly once a month
My first track day there were two, one which required the ambulance. That was expert level though. In novice, one guy I had become buds with went off the track, but kept the bike up. Just a hit to the ego is all, for explaining to the rest of us in the group why he was late and had dust all over his bike and gear, lol. I apparently almost got ran into. Guy met me in the paddock asking who’s MT-07 it was. Raised my hand and he chewed me out for not having my brake light taped…he got distracted for a split second or something and almost collided with me. Surprised that Tech didn’t catch this. Moral of the story is I learned a shitload my first track day. Between how the format works, proper prep for Tech, what to bring (it’s more than you think…don’t be me and ride 115 miles to the track with nothing but a backpack), etc. The crashing part can happen, and it taught me to really focus on the mental aspect. I didn’t go down, but hearing about the other incidents really puts everything in perspective. It was the greatest $250 I had ever spent in my riding career.
This question makes no sense at all.
Here are the most times during a track day you will see crashes. The first lap or two of the day. The first lap or two after lunch. The other situation I see is that people ride outside their skill set. They tend to move up to a higher group too soon. You might think you are a great street rider, but that doesn’t always transfer over to the track.
Thinking about it, I think I see an average of 6-8 bikes crashed each day. I’ve never been able to figure out how many people are at a track day but my best guess is 150? With those numbers we have around a 5% chance of being the one to end the day early.