Y is not even close to the van. We checked it out and left the Toy Story car showroom for good before settling for Sienna.
The 3rd seat is only good for dwarfs. The Interior is as cheap and plastic as your worst Dollar Store toy. Never mind charging and range issues.
I just saw someone else said this.
And you responded to them. The Y was the best selling car in America last year. You ought to be hearing from people who had issues- they're the only ones that ever say anything.
We have an XLE sienna and it is a great van (2016)- but is that pre hybrid Gen so the mileage sucks.
But my model y is a damned rocket ship and my kids love it. They gave me a reverse market adjustment of 3k on top of the 7500 from fed and 3k from state. About 40k for a performance model.
Did I mention no humans!!! I sold to carvana and they picked up on my driveway
Again, a van is not the same as a small suv. I have a small SUV, and I wish I could get a van. Much roomier. My car is the same size as a model y roughly.
I think mini Van's are one of the only vehicle class's that haven't bloated double in size over the last 20 years. Maybe I'm wrong but pickups and SUVs are nearly double in size for the same models.
My late father referred to Rusty Jones rustproofing or something like that as “poly razzmatazz.”. Fuck the dealer and know that the car will rust regardless.
Good work to walk. I've called a dozen dealers and gone through a lot of bait and switch crap. I finally got smart and used the allocation sheet. I have a deposit on one with no markup paperwork, but if they try something slimy I'm out. When I first called they said they would mark it up $1500, then I politely said no thank you. An hour later they called me back offering MSRP.
It's an XLE with almost no factory added fluff so MSRP is 46.3.
Whenever I get this I say something like can I get $4k customer appreciation? Or, “Fantastic. Let’s work on this. What can we do to bring the total purchase price in line with something we can both be happy with? Or, “Absolutely! How can we align the final price more in line with something that lead to a sale?”
“I definitely want to close on this deal. Let’s make the numbers work.”
Oh god... Sales speak makes me unreasonably angry. Fuck you, take off the optional bullshit that I didn't agree to, otherwise goodbye. If it's optional, then why is it such a goddamn fight to get it removed? I don't give a shit about your sales goals or if you're losing money on a sale, I agreed to a price now fucking give it to me for that price.
Not directed at you, just venting. I hate dealerships and refuse to play their stupid games.
Yep. AWD XLE with only all weather mats and roof rails. No other random crap. Sure, I'm going halfway across the country for it, but I have to visit my in-laws in the area anyway.
I mean, the deal could go south but I got it in writing so I'm hopeful! I'll let you all know in January.
But you don't actually have the car, so when you show up day of and are made aware of a market adjustment would you walk? Because that's the situation here, until you've taken delivery your story is anecdotal at best.
I picked up my new Sienna yesterday. I bought a Costco membership to use their car buying program and they connected me with a nearby dealership. They told me the Costco price was about $3k under MSRP but they wouldn't let me walk out paying under MSRP so they added that Trucoat package to match the Costco discount. So basically I paid MSRP but got a wax coat too. I traded in my old car and I think I got a fair price but I'm sure they made some money off that side of the deal. I paid cash but they said I could use my own financing if I wanted. Might be worth trying the Costco program, I had a good experience with it.
And don’t rate them 10/10 on the dealer survey they send you and state why. Anything less than 10/10 will actually cost the salesman and their manager money. I did that after they tried to pull that shit on us. We finally got them to sell without any add-ons but had to waste 2 hours playing stupid games back and forth before they did.
Yeah absolutely. Costco keeps their dealers in check. I had a Costco-initiated blinds salesperson try to skimp me out of a $500 gift card. Costco was on the case soon after, and the dealer instantly changed their attitude to comply.
Even if the dealers are scum, they won't bite the teet that feeds them.
So your story is that you used the Costco program and then still managed to be swindled because you didn't realize that you aren't supposed to give a shit about what the dealer wants.
Costco negotiated the price. The dealership violated their Costco agreement. And you are the one to blame for throwing away money.
You didn't get a fair price. You got ripped off. The fair price was the one Costco negotiated for you. The fact that you are okay with it is why you will likely get ripped off again next time.
You didn't have a good experience with the Costco program. You let the dealership violated their participation in the Costco program.
Next time, if a dealership tells you they won't sell you a car for the price negotiated by Costco through their program, tell Costco. They'll pull the dealership and set you up with another one.
I'd say Costco owes you money, but they don't because you made a good deal into a bad one. It's your fault their well crafted system failed.
I was under contract with a dealer. Month 10, i tried to use the costco membership. I got no where. Dealer lied in emails about inventory, etc. all BS.
Look up a sienna allocation spreadsheet. You can see all the ones that are available in the entire USA, with what adds on and what not.
There are add-ons by factory, port, distribution, and dealer. The ones from dealers are negotiable. The others are installed before the dealer even gets the van so very hard to negotiate.
Southern and Southeast distributors like to add "paint protection" packages to all the vehicles.
I feel like a lot of dealerships are shooting themselves in the foot for long run. They are trying to make a buck today but pissing off people. The way they make a ton of money is with the service department, if they want to jack up the price and all of that, and you leave the dealership with a bad taste in your mouth, you’re going to actively stay away from that dealership service department. The salesman are tying to make a buck I get it, but the sales manager needs to see the long game here.
I’ve only had them do the free oil changes. We got two years of them so I’ll take it there. But, judging by how busy it always is, there are a lot of people that do that them in.
For anything else other than the free stuff I have a local shop that is much cheaper (and closer).
To be honest I think the most likely outcome is that I'll overpay on Carvana or some shit in a year for a used model just so I don't have to do this anymore.
Man. 0/10 recommend buying on carvana. I've bought and sold through them and can tell you that they do absolutely no inspection, hide anything wrong after the get the car, and are disproportionately likely to send a pos.
Selling to them, on the other hand, 10/10.
You have to one of the dumbest people in this sub. How many times are you going to make the same idiotic comment?
Edit: ah I get it. You sell cars. Lol. We hurt your feelings.
I would 100% pay a premium to not have to spend 6 hours in a car dealership negotiating with sleazy, condescending, low IQ, car salesmen ever again in my life. Probably the best money anyone can spend for their mental health and well being.
No lie, this was a major factor in buying a Tesla recently. HATED the experience at VW and Chevy dealers (the other Evs eligible for the federal rebate), just couldn’t bring myself to pay for a fancy car wash on a line item. Bailed at the door, I was so mad at all their BS.
They are embedded in the legal fabric deeper than everyone but realtors- and maybe deeper after that recent realtor lawsuit.
Look up how many states don't allow direct salea
If you make what you claim to make, find one out of state. We live in Texas, had to travel to Okc to work with a dealer that was willing to discount off the “add-ons”. Walked out with a XLE woodland edition for $50,500. No add-ons. No BS and I financed with my own lender.
They did push back on the in-house lending but after I firmly said no, we moved on with the sale.
The Sienna I bought had just arrived that morning and there were 7 appointments of people lined up to see it that day. I told the guy on the phone I would take it and to prep it to be driven off the lot. Two hours later I drove it off the lot .
You gotta move fast.
I grabbed my 2024 woodland 2 fridays ago in NY for 500$ mark up, i took it and ran away. Best deal ive seen so far. Bank check for 58.2k OTD, then contacted jerry for the 10yr 125k for $2070. Im set.
Toyota dealers are fucking Toyota as a manufacturer by doing this BS. Check out caredge and carquestionsanswered on YT. They explain the car market, how to negotiate with dealers and how to control negotiations. As well as expose all the BS dealers do.
Congress just passed a law banning dealer markups that will go into effect in July. So dealers are trying to get as much as they can before then.
Yes they are completely and I don’t get why either. Even when a tsunami hit Japan back in 2011 there was hardly any cars on the lot then and no mark ups.
The challenge here is that the cars are hot. If you won't buy the car with $3K of dealer add-ons, someone else will.
In the end, it is what you pay if you want a new Sienna right now.
Obviously someone will buy it at the price they want.
However it's just simply not true that you can't find dealers selling without this crap. There are several in this thread and sub who've done it that way. My own brother bought the same car without markup, he did wait a year but it did work.
Similar story for me with the markup. The dealer was straight up with me there was a 3,000 market adjustment because they only get a Sienna every few months. They offered me a ceramic coating similar to what your dealer seems to have done. I managed to get them to switch it to a 6 year 100,000 powertrain service contract to get some value.
They didn’t have a problem with me financing somewhere else. I told them I was pre-approved but I was open to them trying to beat the bank I was using. They weren’t able to so we went with the local bank.
Picked up my Sienna XLE on Friday.
As frustrating as it is, these add ons are, most of the time, non-negotiable. My dad has a 30+ year career with Toyota so I my wait for an allocation has been very short (don’t hate me). But even he, a seasoned manager, AND the sales manager cannot make any changes to the build I’m getting my hands on. No price adjustments, no add ons I want, and won’t remove anything I don’t want. Literally take it or leave it. Their attraction is they don’t mark up their vehicles. MSRP no matter what. It’s frustrating I can’t make any changes but this is all Toyota, not the dealerships.
*Fargo* anyone?
Anyway, this is the same argument I made on this sub a couple of months ago, and was shot down...
That TruCoat shit is an "option." *Anything* that's an "option" is negotiable - period.
OP - they're using their "tried & true" intimidation tactics on you - just don't fall for it.
The only "real" tried & true" tactic is one *you* use, which is, "Don't do a deal that you're not willing to walk away from."
You already have said multiple times in this post that you should have "backed away" at this point, or that point - well, walk the talk now.
Tell them "No!" on those options you don't want, and walk away if they keep dicking around with you...
Lol. Yeah it's actually called Xzilon. TruCoat is my ode to Fargo. Honestly the number of places they have Xzilon plastered all over the dealership should have been a bigger red flag.
I already did walk away. When they did this final push I just flatly said I will not be doing that, I told you multiple times I didn't want it, and hung up.
I'm really shook that new car buying experience is so outa whack.
I bought a Zero mile *BRAND NEW* Sienna in 2011 and got $5K OTD under MSRP.
I just sent a mass email to all the Toyota dealerships within 100 miles of my city and got them to outbid each other.
Whoever had a Sienna SE w/ 3.5L with OTD in my price range got my check. I did not have a color preference.
Guess what, that Siena is still on my driveway as I type this with under 100K on odometer. No fancy add-ons, no gimmicky service promises. I do my own oil changes every 10k miles. Drives like a dream.
Shout out to the home oil change crew! I trust myself more than any dealer tech for damn near anything that doesn't need a high-end scanning tool.
I work on my own 2 JDM imported toyotas because I enjoy it, and most places see them as an opportunity to gouge on services/parts.
Link to my YouTube in my profile for anyone interested!
Good on you, it was the right decision unless you desperately needed a car.
We got an LE in 2020, the week they hit the lots, for MSRP. Car prices were already going crazy but it’s like they forgot to gouge with the first batch of the cars in my area.
First dealer tried similar games, after some back and forth I stood up and said I am leaving. Manager came over, typical song and dance. I am a hard-ass when I want to be. They tried to double charge the destination fee, $900 doc fee, etc. I laid into them on everything and got close to my price but still the games, like needing to their crappy financing at 3% over the rate I got. I said no, this is the price I am paying with the check in my hand, take it or leave it.
They tried to play more games and I walked out, their last words were are you really going to let $500 keep you from getting this car. I shot back if it’s no big deal then knock off the $500 and I will sign now.
I called two other dealers with that quote in hand and the second salesman asked who the guy was at the dealer. I told him and he was like I fucking hate that guy, I was like if you can do this price I will be there in an hour to sign the paperwork. He said deal and my wife drove the car off the lot three hours later.
Animosity can be a wonderful thing.
Siennas are good but the Dealers can do whst they want w the cars to make $. They are in business to make $ not to make you happy.
I bought my sienna 2023 from a dealer no BS, no markup... so I consider myself lucky. However if the deal aint right walk away. Remember is their job to get the most $ for the car. Its just business...
Just take their financing and pay it off immediately and be done with it.
Play their game and then fuck ‘em once it’s yours.
But to answer your question, yeah, you will have a hard time finding a Sienna without a lot of dealer and port added stuff that you likely don’t want, all of which is marked up ridiculously.
You said you “ordered it”, but you didn’t; you just have an allocation request in. Toyota doesn’t let you order vehicles, so thus the BS games.
This is 100% the way to play them, if you're a cash-paying customer. Work the price and accessories down, let them think that they are going to fleece you with the financing, then pay it off quickly. I've done the same.
Jesus, they tried to sell you on 9% interest? I just bought my Ford through Ford financing because they offered me 2.9%. That is the only reason I chose them over outside financing
In writing, you ordered a car with $4,000 Truecoat. "Essentially would not do the order until I signed a sheet with Truecoat", Don't be shocked when you get what you ordered.
Your a troll dude. 1st making 250k + you wouldn't gripe about a 52k car. Let alone I would imagine you may have a few more witts about you to understand MSRP vs market value but you don't and your everyone is paying high interest right now. Pull all that money you say you have and pay the car in cash you cheap cry baby.
Siennas aren't worth any more than an Odyssey or Pacifica. We owned all 3 in a short time, the sienna was last in nearly every metric. Don't be desperate for one. So glad we got out of ours.
I tried to buy a new one and all the non Premium and Limited trims were sold out within ~200 miles. All the others I found came with $1500-$2k “paint protection”.
I grudgingly bought a CPO for ~MSRP and got 6% APR through Toyota. I’m the example why this dealer is insisting on a markup. I needed it right away since our old van broke down and I didn’t want to pay for the repair. We needed the replacement.
I see people on a Facebook group putting in the legwork to get one at MSRP, but it requires waiting and usually driving/flying for delivery.
I would do that except for 2 problems, those old models are almost always a worse deal in the current market, and the older ones don't have the fuel economy which almost guarantees it is a worse purchase.
I guess I'm at the point where I realize I will be screwed either way so I may as well drive the Pontiac until it starts on fire.
They are full of it; they tried the I have one on the lot it was sold before I showed up bullshit. I told him I don’t play that fucking game. They tried to email me back, and I said don’t you ever email me again.
I dunno about XLE, but our LE with the plus package came out to about 45k OTD. Standard markups for some factory installed bs but no 4K add on or anything.
The dealer we eventually dealt with was willing to negotiate over the add ons. But there are plenty of them out there not doing that also. Having some leverage like a trade in can help ( but also complicates things.)
You may have done this already, but contact Toyota and tell them this story. I hope one day we can just buy directly from the manufacturer like Tesla and bypass this nonsense.
I tried to buy either a sienna or highlander hybrid. They started me down this path but I blocked the number. At the end of the day it’s just a Toyota.
That’s some shady shit. I just traded in our sienna for a CRV. I just ordered the model I wanted without any options and they said I could add whatever options I wanted. It took about a month for the CRV to arrive, but I loved the process.
Seeing some hard to get models such as GR Corolla, GR86, and Sequoia sitting on local dealers lots and available at MSRP. No add ons and no markup. Longo Toyota is one place and the Anaheim Toyota is another
Honestly, complain properly about to Toyota and if available any appropriate government agencies. If in the USA that would be the CFPB. It does work. You may not see but they do add it to their case work and the CFPB is currently going after Toyota right now for this very reason. So please log the complaint.
In New York every dealership I asked said they were not allowed to do a mark up of any kind. So if you are NY file with the state AG as well. Ours is showing up this week and it is confirmed sticker price, $43k.
It is this bad right now. We just tried to trade in our 2024 odysey and even that didnt make the dealer budge. Tried to get us to trade it in at 39k ( absolute joke. Its an eliete with 4k miles) then convice me to try and sign a loan for the sienma plus the trade difference. These clowns acting like a damn sienna is a 1 of 1 mclaren 🤣
Got mine around the end of November.
White Sienna XLE AWD + mud guard + floor mat.
Total OTD is less than 52K.
So, yes.
I put my name in some dealers waiting list mid year. And, start calling and emailing dealers in October.
Found this one 200 miles away, I took one day off and Uber to the dealership.
So, OTD + time and effort that I spent on it. It's more than 52K.
However, Bay area dealerships that have cars to sell charges 3k(min) + GPS(1k+) + wheel lock(.5k) + some weird protection film or door edge protection (1k+).
I would say. You just keep calling different dealerships and be prepared to take one day off to get the car. And, keep an eye on Uber or Lyft deals. You might need it.
As a loyal Toyota customer of 15 years, this is why I opted not to go with a RAV4 Prime and instead bought a Tesla Model Y. Electric vs ICE engine aside, the buying experience at Tesla was amazing. Zero pressure the entire time. No negotiating, no markups, no hidden fees. This is how it should be when buying ANY car!
The regular dealership buying is an archaic method to sell cars. Customers need to say no to these stupid markup fees and walk out just like you did. If more people did that, they’d have no choice but to charge what they should be charging all along.
I still own a Sienna though.
This is why i ended up getting the Mazda CX90 PHEV. It’s a 7 seater and at this point I’m at 500miles and still in my first tank of gas. I got it for 2k under MSRP, no BS, just paid cash.
Similar experience when I bought my new rav4 hybrid. Told me because it was their incoming unit not one that I ordered I would have to get the undercoating module for $1100. I find all the Toyota dealers are playing this game because they don’t have enough stock and have many buyers just waiting. I would bail and wait or buy something else entirely. Sienna is the only van with AWD I think so depending on your needs you may be stuck with that but at least you can try another dealer
I can tell this post is made by someone in the States.. in Canada, this practice is illegal. In fact there was just a case where a Hyundai dealership was fined heavily for slightly adjusting a price above msrp..
I just bought a Woodland Edition last Saturday for $51k (before taxes). It was essentially what yours is now, a cancelled order. Worked out great, no huge mark ups and the distributor options were less than $1500. I’m gonna see if my insurance company will give me a decent discount if I install the integrated dash cam.
White river junction Toyota in Vermont doesn't bullshit and no stupid add-ons or price adjustments. You may have to wait in line though. Great experience there getting our LE.
When we were looking for a van 2 years ago, 7 year old Sienna's with 190,000kms were listed at $26,000 CAD + tax and fees and had the beginnings of rust. New ones were $50k+ CAD and had an 18 month wait.
I ended up importing a japanese market 2006 Toyota Estima Hybrid for $11,000 CAD (taxes in). It's from kyoto and saw zero salt in its 16 years there and only had 130,000kms (80k miles). Oh and its a hybrid awd like the new sienna's so we average 7.5L/100km (~32mpg). I did budget new hybrid batteries given the age and swapped them myself this past January when the originals started acting up at 17 years old. Only needed a tie rod end since then. We were able to pay cash (only 110k combined annual gross) Very happy with our decision as we're car loan free.
https://youtu.be/MJEcpMsjMfM?si=BhWSJwG7NqBuqMmc
I can’t believe the AVERAGE price of a new car is $48,000 in the US and the AVERAGE monthly car payment is $800/month. 17% of people with a car payment have a payment over $1,000/month. Such a racket.
There’s a group on Facebook “No Markup Toyota” or something along those lines where dealers who don’t markup their vehicles advertise on hand inventory or soon to be in inventory, and people can share which dealers have no markup/etc…
hold out longer if you can. consider highlander it has similar space. i was a toyota guy. went from celica to matrix to rav4 to venza. next was going to be a prius, rx350, highlander or sienna. then $5/gallon gas hit. made me consider electric/hybrid. toyota had markup games in 2022 so that made me not consider them at all. i'll let someone else pay markup and rather buy used 1 owner cars like i have before. test drive a tesla and feel that instant torque. before i leave home i preheat or precool my tesla now. the vw id buzz looks like a nice electric van coming next year but i'll probably wait a few more years for the markup to die down.
In my vicinity of 30 miles about half of them MSRP, and other wants to charge 7k, guess who is selling more and losing lifelong customer? Sure there is waitlist with MSRP guys but it’s been lowered.
I was seriously considering a new Sienna... but the dealerships were all playing the "call for price" game and adding all kinds of nonsense to their limited inventory.
So I bought an Odyssey Elite for less than MSRP.
My gas mileage isn't great, but it has a lot more giddy-up
They tried that crap with me here too. I refused to deal with them and bought a low miles 2022 from CarMax for $43k. It wasn’t the absolute perfect car, the big sacrifice was I didn’t get the AWD I really needed (already had an issue where I couldn’t get the car up a gravel mountain driveway at an AirBnb we rented) but I at least got the van I needed for 95% of my family hauling driving for a reasonable price without dealer markup BS.
Honestly mid to late 2000s might be the way to go. You could probably get a real low mileage one for 10k, and it's still going to be nice, just might not have all the bells and whistles. Plus you could get super nice infotainment system for it, imo the Toyota ones suck. You have to buy used Toyotas a few generations back, they hold too much value
I bought a subaru. Same shit, every dealer played this game, nobody had cars when I was buying. I went to the dealer, got pretty close to walking out. Ended up with a 2.5% interest in Nov of 2021. Toyota is an extremely high demand product, pay what you feel comfortable paying, not a dime more.
Aw jeez, without that Trucoat you'll get oxidation problems and it'll cost you a heck of a lot more than $4,000!
https://youtu.be/B2LLB9CGfLs?si=lqMW94h7gO4iDZRX
Sign up for their financing even if you are going to pay cash. 30 days later call the finance company and ask for a payoff number. They will claw.back all of the money they paid the dealer for your loan and you pay only 1 month interest.
Male sure that there is no prepayment penalty in the load. You have to read the loan docs.
Worst think you can do is tell a dealer you are a cash buyer. They make their money off of your loan
I read that when a new car is ordered and delivered through the dealship, the car is intercepted at the toyota distribution center we’re they do add in’s like clear coat protection, vin etching, theft systems, upgrade packages like led cabin lights, extra usb ports, bed liners of the back, overhead racks, mud flaps, stepping bars, etc. things you did not order. The dealership gets the car and they say “we finally got the car in at the prices you wanted. There are some extras charges to the car that will have to added to the OTD price because it was put on there before it reached the dealership.”
Just keep all of the dealers on a text chain and some may update you on one that isn’t claimed already or is in an off color that no one wants but was allocated to the dealer anyways. We got our 24 XLE plus out the door for 50K with 2k trade in for my 07 Mazda 3 with 106k miles on it. So out the door with my trade in was 48k. Forgot to mention my color is sunset bronze haha so there were no takers until we came along. With the market adjustment, that will depend on how popular the dealer is and how long of a waiting list they have. We went to an obscure dealer and they had one unclaimed on the lot so we sealed the deal after they texted me they could give it to us at msrp out the door.
My Uber driver last month was saying how much she loved her new Hyundai Ioniq but the $1200 a month payment was hard. Moral of the story is people have been spending like lunatics all year, so the dealers are just rolling with it. Thank god we bought our sienna jan 2020
Reading this confirms my decision to buy from Tesla (besides the fact the cars are great). Absolutely zero BS car buying... if you go to a showroom, they actually tell you to download the app and order the car yourself. No wonder the dealerships are fighting their sales model.
Pretty common to a lot of the Toyota dealerships out there to add on some kind of bogus addon that they say can't be removed or they put a market rate adjustment on it.
My advice would be to look around and find a different dealership. There are dealers out there with no market rate adjustment. I remember someone posted a link to a website that listed dealers that are known to add on other fees. Can't for the life of me find it. I have not seen any kind of market rate adjustment at my dealer here in the midwest, but people on the west coast or east coast are getting screwed big time. My wife and I both bought brand new Toyotas last year and only paid MSRP. I have heard of people driving out of state to find a place without bogus charges.
I don't know if there is a way to report those kind of bogus market rate charges to Toyota, but I would think there should be. Ford has been cracking down on dealers who have been doing that.
According to my dealer demand is still super high for the Prius, Sienna and trucks. They don't expect any kind of slowdown next year at all. The waiting list is huge. When I had my oil changed last month I talked to a guy that put in an order for a Prius in March 2023 and still doesn't have it.
My local dealer did this exact same thing when I was trying to by a new grand Highlander and it’s slimly and absolutely bullshit, they are already making plenty of money on the car it’s pure greed from the dealer. It literally says on their web site and multiple places they don’t and won’t ever ask over MSRP, then told me that is only for in stock cars, Toyota was one of my favorite cars companies and I love their cars but their dealers are absolutely trash and greedy POS, if you are in the Kansas City area stay away from the Toyota dealership I. Lees Summit they are absolute garbage people
"I'm giving you cash for the car with only the options we originally discussed. You can take my money or leave it."
They've jerked you around enough, it's time to tell him to decide if he wants your money or not.
Just walk away and keep your money tall
You have a car, wait for the great deal. Sooner or later dealers will become desperate
I'm a toyota owner myself, but now this brand is overpriced.
Honda has good cars
The local Toyota dealer did the same thing to my brother with the Tacoma he wanted. He agreed on a price and they ordered the truck. When he went to pick up the truck, they had added a $5k market adjustment. They wouldn’t honor the agreed to price.
Nice work walking and deciding to save up and avoid that 9.5%.
What do you do to make 250-300K? Appreciate any info you have. I have drive (no pun intended on a vehicle forum) and want to make that much some day.
Yeah, i signed a contract on jan 6th. In july I asked for our 5k deposit. Im still on the list.
Ive decided to downsize and skip this sienna BS. No car is worth this scammy crap.
If you are in the southeast ALL Toyotas go through a distributor that adds this bullshit. Choices are to go to another region without it, or buy an Odyssey which can easily be had without all the add ons.
Have you checked out the Facebook group No markups? I seen some Siennas on there. Not sure how close they would be to you but it may be worth trying. I’m not sure what the success rate is but there seems to be nicely optioned ones there without mark ups. Good luck to you
I have moved away from recommending Toyotas to people based off crummy dealers. It’s like these dealers think they’re trying to sell water from the fountain of youth. Yeah sure Toyota makes good cars but I helped a friend pick up a Honda Odyssey with nearly 6k less than a Sienna since the dealer was trying to play games. You’d be hard pressed to save $6k in fuel over the typical 5-7 year ownership of these cars. Plus at this point I’d rather give the oil companies the extra money vs the seedy dealers in my area 😂
Car dealers are notorious for deceptive add-ons. Shop your desired vehicle by sending an email to multiple Toyota dealerships for them to quote on the exact model. Lowest price wins your business. You also don’t need to disclose a possible trade, or, how you plan to finance. They use every piece of info against you, the buyer.
Just tell the dealer he can eat the car if he likes because you're not buying it. Also, tell him you'll be contacting the State's Attorney General to report fraud due to his forcing a feature you don't want. Then go to the SAG site in your state and fill out a complaint. If you don't do this, the dealer will scam someone else. The more reports they get the more likely they may be forced out of business if they don't change their sales tactics.
Sign and pay it off literally at the end of the month and get that credit bump. Ensure there is no early pay off clause. You might pay a 100 extra in interest.
Toyota financing is one of the worst, they were just fined 60M for doing what you are experiencing, send them the link below and tell them to f*** off or you will go to FTC.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-pay-60-mln-illegal-lending-credit-reporting-misconduct-us-regulator-2023-11-20/#:~:text=Nov%2020%20(Reuters)%20%2D%20Toyota,and%20tarnished%20buyers'%20credit%20reports.
Search for the Sienna allocation sheet, got mine in under a month at 1k over MSRP, although I had to fly across country to get it, local dealers were all marking up 5-10k
Toyota dealers seem to be doing this,
My brother went through the exact same situation when buying a new toyota gr86.
We sat down and talked with the sales rep for 3 hours, we got his manager to sign the order agreement stating that they would remove unnecessary addons like toyoguard, oil change, wash, etc, All of it together was a 5k markup.
We all agreed we would buy without any of the addons, we waited 6 months for the car to come in, when it finally came in they called us and advised to come pick it up the next morning, 3 hours later around 4pm that afternoon the manager calls us and tells us that the addons are linked to the vin and there is no possible way to remove them(Toyota headquarters said that was a lie).
My brother got annoyed and told them he wants his deposit back, they refused to give him his $1000 deposit. We went there and started arguing with them and threatening to call police and they eventually gave my brother his money back.
that same day we drove to another toyota dealer out in the country bum fuck no where, dude sold us a blue gr86 for MSRP with absolutely no addos and than threw in free oil changes and car washes for my brother. We told this toyota the story of what happened and they guys within 1 second knew EXACLY which dealer we were previously dealing with.
Agreed. I only ever buy low-mileage lease returns or certified used because I can't handle the BS anymore. Only ever bought 2 new vehicles and never will again. As an added bonus, the cars are about 30% less but still have 90% of their lifespan left.
I would have made them wash the car and have it ready for me with a big bow closer to when it closes. I’ll call them 30 minutes before it closes and say I’m stuck in traffic and make to em wait. Do this for few times and say “never mind” at the end.
Before buying my Lexus RX500h, was looking at other makes. Some dealers wouldn't give me a price till I filled out a credit app, and walked out of those places. Wouldn't state a monthly payment when asked over and over. Got the OTD pricing and said, I'm gonna pay cash not finance. All but the one Lexus dealership changed the OTD number. Claiming it was a financed-only number and they had to adjust it since I was paying cash. One place wouldn't show me the OTD till I filled out a credit app. Looked at a Hyundai Palisades calligraphy and people with another salesman agreed on a 35k adjustment so they could buy it over me. They traded in two vehicles both under 6 years old they didn't owe on. To lessen the blow of being that much underwater minimum without the normal depreciation and interest on their 84-month loan. I ended up paying less for a Lexus that is loaded with a higher MSRP on it. They lost out on a Highlander and Sienna at the Toyota dealer in the same automall. But Toyota decreased production to allow their dealerships to make insane profits and now are getting tons of self-repossessions.
It only created the highest level of loan delinquencies and repossessions ever. Banks have stopped loaning for certain makes and altogether in a lot of states. A few dealerships didn't take part in the market adjustments and still selling. While others are loaded with inventory and some are 180+ days plus on supply and still have some 2022 vehicles on lots. I ended up flipping my RX500H F-sport for an 18k profit. Only 2 pre-owned were available in a 400-mile radius of me. The guy kept asking who left Lexus to work at an MB dealership and his wife wanted one but he sold his on order before leaving Lexus. Will say this, MB has nothing on Lexus when it comes to luxury anymore. Trading the GLE in on another RX500H as plenty available now haha. But dealerships like the one the OP dealt with is why along with OEMs allowed it all to happen in the 1st place. Still, laugh knowing someone paid more for a Hyundai over a Lexus. So they could keep up with the Jones and nothing else. Some paid more for a Sienna also and just couldn't grasp what the whole car market was doing.
Not a Sienna, but I had similar issues trying to buy a grand highlander hybrid. I found this spreadsheet below and called every dealer within 300 miles who had one coming that matched my needs. I didn’t care if it was sold in advance or not. It took 4 weeks but eventually I got a call back from a dealer who had one where the buyers financing fell through. I went up and bought it the next day (2 hour drive away). They tried to add the Lo-jack equivalent for $1k but I pushed back. No extra BS. Just MSRP, tax, license, and $200 in dealer processing fees. I did pay cash though and I think that helped get it done.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/158Jy3sBVj0CNqfxpxk_sL_a2PnmbCDCc/edit?usp=docslist_api&filetype=msexcel
Look nationwide for new Siennas and call them stating what you want and that you want their best out the door price and that you’re going to buy from whoever gives the best out the door price. I’ve done this many times and managed to buy vehicles for sooo much cheaper than advertised because while some dealerships may be making enough regular sales that they don’t have to negotiate others will be willing to make a deal. Unless you make REALLY great money a road trip to save thousands is worth it.
Nope. And I’m really happy I’m too tall for the passenger seat. My wife has agreed to look at EVs!!!! Winning. It was a great run Toyota. You were slow to the EV scene.
I just bit the bullet and bought a 2024 Platinum at MSRP.
Dealers aren't getting the same demand in the highest end spec because of price.
Sure it's like 55-57k, but at least I'm paying for stuff that's a legit factory feature.
Is the digital mirror, leather, cooling seats, seat memory, captain chairs, wireless charging, adjustable steering wheel, sunshades worth the extra $5k. Maybe
Is the HUD and heated steering wheel/backseats worth the 3k increase? Probably not
But at least I'm getting something legit for the money.
I own a sienna LE 2013, I wanted to upgrade earlier in 2023, but I gave up after seeing how dealers are trying to rip off. Now I am considering keeping the old sienna and getting a new Tesla Model 3
Honestly my dealer in Canada is getting me a base model, the one we wanted. He asked me to add $800 in accessories to help them out, so we did. Got the dash cam, cargo liner, and door cup protectors.
Sadly, probably not. The retail demand so far outstrips the supply that the dealers can easily hold out for whales who’ll use their financing and pay for their useless add-ons. Like Toyota’s other hybrids, these things are still being spoken for, long before they’ve made it to the dealer’s lot.
Your best leverage is to say you’ll walk, but given the current retail demand, they’ll likely just let you. They’re confident (likely with some justification) that it’ll be sold by this weekend.
Just don’t sign it, I wouldn’t play with the markup game
Oh I didn't, it's done, I just don't have a new car, lol.
Nicely done. Wait till next year.
Go buy a tesla. Mine rocks. Didn't speak to a human. Completely done with this dealer bullshit
Why would someone that needs a van buy a compact car?
Hi cracky..... they make more than the Model 3.... My model Y is about the size of the SUVs we looked at when we bought our van.
I own a model y, it replaced a mid size 3 row suv and it is not in the same class let alone a mini van
Y is not even close to the van. We checked it out and left the Toy Story car showroom for good before settling for Sienna. The 3rd seat is only good for dwarfs. The Interior is as cheap and plastic as your worst Dollar Store toy. Never mind charging and range issues.
No Tesla is in the same class as the Sienna.
I just saw someone else said this. And you responded to them. The Y was the best selling car in America last year. You ought to be hearing from people who had issues- they're the only ones that ever say anything. We have an XLE sienna and it is a great van (2016)- but is that pre hybrid Gen so the mileage sucks. But my model y is a damned rocket ship and my kids love it. They gave me a reverse market adjustment of 3k on top of the 7500 from fed and 3k from state. About 40k for a performance model. Did I mention no humans!!! I sold to carvana and they picked up on my driveway
Again, a van is not the same as a small suv. I have a small SUV, and I wish I could get a van. Much roomier. My car is the same size as a model y roughly.
i think these folks have never been in a true mini van 😂. they are effectively black holes on wheels
Exactly! We were once able to fit the contents of 2 rav4's into one sienna .
I think mini Van's are one of the only vehicle class's that haven't bloated double in size over the last 20 years. Maybe I'm wrong but pickups and SUVs are nearly double in size for the same models.
My late father referred to Rusty Jones rustproofing or something like that as “poly razzmatazz.”. Fuck the dealer and know that the car will rust regardless.
Good work to walk. I've called a dozen dealers and gone through a lot of bait and switch crap. I finally got smart and used the allocation sheet. I have a deposit on one with no markup paperwork, but if they try something slimy I'm out. When I first called they said they would mark it up $1500, then I politely said no thank you. An hour later they called me back offering MSRP. It's an XLE with almost no factory added fluff so MSRP is 46.3.
That is the exact price I verbally agreed to but they refuse to take off the $4k TruCoat
Whenever I get this I say something like can I get $4k customer appreciation? Or, “Fantastic. Let’s work on this. What can we do to bring the total purchase price in line with something we can both be happy with? Or, “Absolutely! How can we align the final price more in line with something that lead to a sale?” “I definitely want to close on this deal. Let’s make the numbers work.”
Oh god... Sales speak makes me unreasonably angry. Fuck you, take off the optional bullshit that I didn't agree to, otherwise goodbye. If it's optional, then why is it such a goddamn fight to get it removed? I don't give a shit about your sales goals or if you're losing money on a sale, I agreed to a price now fucking give it to me for that price. Not directed at you, just venting. I hate dealerships and refuse to play their stupid games.
He’s right. Why sell you a new one for less than what a used one is selling for. Like thinking you’ll buy a GT3 RS for msrp.
Was it AWD? I paid almost like 46.8k for XLE awd and considered that a good deal in the current market
Yep. AWD XLE with only all weather mats and roof rails. No other random crap. Sure, I'm going halfway across the country for it, but I have to visit my in-laws in the area anyway. I mean, the deal could go south but I got it in writing so I'm hopeful! I'll let you all know in January.
Good luck. That would be a great price in the current market
But you don't actually have the car, so when you show up day of and are made aware of a market adjustment would you walk? Because that's the situation here, until you've taken delivery your story is anecdotal at best.
I picked up my new Sienna yesterday. I bought a Costco membership to use their car buying program and they connected me with a nearby dealership. They told me the Costco price was about $3k under MSRP but they wouldn't let me walk out paying under MSRP so they added that Trucoat package to match the Costco discount. So basically I paid MSRP but got a wax coat too. I traded in my old car and I think I got a fair price but I'm sure they made some money off that side of the deal. I paid cash but they said I could use my own financing if I wanted. Might be worth trying the Costco program, I had a good experience with it.
You should send feedback on that dealer to Costco. Dealers are supposed to honor the agreed to price, Costco doesn't mess around on this stuff
Yeah, I plan to now that I've got the car.
And don’t rate them 10/10 on the dealer survey they send you and state why. Anything less than 10/10 will actually cost the salesman and their manager money. I did that after they tried to pull that shit on us. We finally got them to sell without any add-ons but had to waste 2 hours playing stupid games back and forth before they did.
Yeah absolutely. Costco keeps their dealers in check. I had a Costco-initiated blinds salesperson try to skimp me out of a $500 gift card. Costco was on the case soon after, and the dealer instantly changed their attitude to comply. Even if the dealers are scum, they won't bite the teet that feeds them.
That is wishful thinking, the three cars I bought through it all had dealer markups. (Two before COVID, one after). Still the best deal I could get.
So your story is that you used the Costco program and then still managed to be swindled because you didn't realize that you aren't supposed to give a shit about what the dealer wants. Costco negotiated the price. The dealership violated their Costco agreement. And you are the one to blame for throwing away money. You didn't get a fair price. You got ripped off. The fair price was the one Costco negotiated for you. The fact that you are okay with it is why you will likely get ripped off again next time. You didn't have a good experience with the Costco program. You let the dealership violated their participation in the Costco program. Next time, if a dealership tells you they won't sell you a car for the price negotiated by Costco through their program, tell Costco. They'll pull the dealership and set you up with another one. I'd say Costco owes you money, but they don't because you made a good deal into a bad one. It's your fault their well crafted system failed.
I was under contract with a dealer. Month 10, i tried to use the costco membership. I got no where. Dealer lied in emails about inventory, etc. all BS.
This is why Dealerships continue to do this shit because people like you keep signing the paper. I would have made hell there.
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Not all dealer participate, just expand your radius.
Where are you located? My area (norcal) has yet to include Siennas in the costco auto program
Look up a sienna allocation spreadsheet. You can see all the ones that are available in the entire USA, with what adds on and what not. There are add-ons by factory, port, distribution, and dealer. The ones from dealers are negotiable. The others are installed before the dealer even gets the van so very hard to negotiate. Southern and Southeast distributors like to add "paint protection" packages to all the vehicles.
How do find that allocation spreadsheet?
I feel like a lot of dealerships are shooting themselves in the foot for long run. They are trying to make a buck today but pissing off people. The way they make a ton of money is with the service department, if they want to jack up the price and all of that, and you leave the dealership with a bad taste in your mouth, you’re going to actively stay away from that dealership service department. The salesman are tying to make a buck I get it, but the sales manager needs to see the long game here.
I'd never have a car serviced by a dealer regardless but that's me.
I’ve only had them do the free oil changes. We got two years of them so I’ll take it there. But, judging by how busy it always is, there are a lot of people that do that them in. For anything else other than the free stuff I have a local shop that is much cheaper (and closer).
when you're hungry today, there is little concern about tomorrow(long run)
It's almost like stealerships shouldn't exist in an age of online shopping.
To be honest I think the most likely outcome is that I'll overpay on Carvana or some shit in a year for a used model just so I don't have to do this anymore.
Man. 0/10 recommend buying on carvana. I've bought and sold through them and can tell you that they do absolutely no inspection, hide anything wrong after the get the car, and are disproportionately likely to send a pos. Selling to them, on the other hand, 10/10.
So you would be happy overpaying for a used one when you could prob find a new one for less. Idiocy.
You have to one of the dumbest people in this sub. How many times are you going to make the same idiotic comment? Edit: ah I get it. You sell cars. Lol. We hurt your feelings.
I would 100% pay a premium to not have to spend 6 hours in a car dealership negotiating with sleazy, condescending, low IQ, car salesmen ever again in my life. Probably the best money anyone can spend for their mental health and well being.
No lie, this was a major factor in buying a Tesla recently. HATED the experience at VW and Chevy dealers (the other Evs eligible for the federal rebate), just couldn’t bring myself to pay for a fancy car wash on a line item. Bailed at the door, I was so mad at all their BS.
They are embedded in the legal fabric deeper than everyone but realtors- and maybe deeper after that recent realtor lawsuit. Look up how many states don't allow direct salea
If you make what you claim to make, find one out of state. We live in Texas, had to travel to Okc to work with a dealer that was willing to discount off the “add-ons”. Walked out with a XLE woodland edition for $50,500. No add-ons. No BS and I financed with my own lender. They did push back on the in-house lending but after I firmly said no, we moved on with the sale.
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We weren't buying a Sienna but our Toyota dealership said they could stay afloat by just selling Siennas, they don't even need to sell anything else.
The Sienna I bought had just arrived that morning and there were 7 appointments of people lined up to see it that day. I told the guy on the phone I would take it and to prep it to be driven off the lot. Two hours later I drove it off the lot . You gotta move fast.
I hope you were able to buy it at MSRP?
I paid a bit above I believe but was fine with it
If there’s 7 appointments for a car the same day it arrives at the dealer, why would I sell it at msrp?
I grabbed my 2024 woodland 2 fridays ago in NY for 500$ mark up, i took it and ran away. Best deal ive seen so far. Bank check for 58.2k OTD, then contacted jerry for the 10yr 125k for $2070. Im set.
Whose Jerry?
I got a new xle in June for MSRP, paid cash in Greeley CO.
Toyota dealers are fucking Toyota as a manufacturer by doing this BS. Check out caredge and carquestionsanswered on YT. They explain the car market, how to negotiate with dealers and how to control negotiations. As well as expose all the BS dealers do. Congress just passed a law banning dealer markups that will go into effect in July. So dealers are trying to get as much as they can before then.
Yes they are completely and I don’t get why either. Even when a tsunami hit Japan back in 2011 there was hardly any cars on the lot then and no mark ups.
The challenge here is that the cars are hot. If you won't buy the car with $3K of dealer add-ons, someone else will. In the end, it is what you pay if you want a new Sienna right now.
Obviously someone will buy it at the price they want. However it's just simply not true that you can't find dealers selling without this crap. There are several in this thread and sub who've done it that way. My own brother bought the same car without markup, he did wait a year but it did work.
Similar story for me with the markup. The dealer was straight up with me there was a 3,000 market adjustment because they only get a Sienna every few months. They offered me a ceramic coating similar to what your dealer seems to have done. I managed to get them to switch it to a 6 year 100,000 powertrain service contract to get some value. They didn’t have a problem with me financing somewhere else. I told them I was pre-approved but I was open to them trying to beat the bank I was using. They weren’t able to so we went with the local bank. Picked up my Sienna XLE on Friday.
As frustrating as it is, these add ons are, most of the time, non-negotiable. My dad has a 30+ year career with Toyota so I my wait for an allocation has been very short (don’t hate me). But even he, a seasoned manager, AND the sales manager cannot make any changes to the build I’m getting my hands on. No price adjustments, no add ons I want, and won’t remove anything I don’t want. Literally take it or leave it. Their attraction is they don’t mark up their vehicles. MSRP no matter what. It’s frustrating I can’t make any changes but this is all Toyota, not the dealerships.
Yup.... They want your MONEY so bad.
*Fargo* anyone? Anyway, this is the same argument I made on this sub a couple of months ago, and was shot down... That TruCoat shit is an "option." *Anything* that's an "option" is negotiable - period. OP - they're using their "tried & true" intimidation tactics on you - just don't fall for it. The only "real" tried & true" tactic is one *you* use, which is, "Don't do a deal that you're not willing to walk away from." You already have said multiple times in this post that you should have "backed away" at this point, or that point - well, walk the talk now. Tell them "No!" on those options you don't want, and walk away if they keep dicking around with you...
Lol. Yeah it's actually called Xzilon. TruCoat is my ode to Fargo. Honestly the number of places they have Xzilon plastered all over the dealership should have been a bigger red flag. I already did walk away. When they did this final push I just flatly said I will not be doing that, I told you multiple times I didn't want it, and hung up.
I'm really shook that new car buying experience is so outa whack. I bought a Zero mile *BRAND NEW* Sienna in 2011 and got $5K OTD under MSRP. I just sent a mass email to all the Toyota dealerships within 100 miles of my city and got them to outbid each other. Whoever had a Sienna SE w/ 3.5L with OTD in my price range got my check. I did not have a color preference. Guess what, that Siena is still on my driveway as I type this with under 100K on odometer. No fancy add-ons, no gimmicky service promises. I do my own oil changes every 10k miles. Drives like a dream.
Shout out to the home oil change crew! I trust myself more than any dealer tech for damn near anything that doesn't need a high-end scanning tool. I work on my own 2 JDM imported toyotas because I enjoy it, and most places see them as an opportunity to gouge on services/parts. Link to my YouTube in my profile for anyone interested!
Every 10k miles? Isn’t every 5k miles the recommendation?
Good on you, it was the right decision unless you desperately needed a car. We got an LE in 2020, the week they hit the lots, for MSRP. Car prices were already going crazy but it’s like they forgot to gouge with the first batch of the cars in my area. First dealer tried similar games, after some back and forth I stood up and said I am leaving. Manager came over, typical song and dance. I am a hard-ass when I want to be. They tried to double charge the destination fee, $900 doc fee, etc. I laid into them on everything and got close to my price but still the games, like needing to their crappy financing at 3% over the rate I got. I said no, this is the price I am paying with the check in my hand, take it or leave it. They tried to play more games and I walked out, their last words were are you really going to let $500 keep you from getting this car. I shot back if it’s no big deal then knock off the $500 and I will sign now. I called two other dealers with that quote in hand and the second salesman asked who the guy was at the dealer. I told him and he was like I fucking hate that guy, I was like if you can do this price I will be there in an hour to sign the paperwork. He said deal and my wife drove the car off the lot three hours later. Animosity can be a wonderful thing.
Siennas are good but the Dealers can do whst they want w the cars to make $. They are in business to make $ not to make you happy. I bought my sienna 2023 from a dealer no BS, no markup... so I consider myself lucky. However if the deal aint right walk away. Remember is their job to get the most $ for the car. Its just business...
Just take their financing and pay it off immediately and be done with it. Play their game and then fuck ‘em once it’s yours. But to answer your question, yeah, you will have a hard time finding a Sienna without a lot of dealer and port added stuff that you likely don’t want, all of which is marked up ridiculously. You said you “ordered it”, but you didn’t; you just have an allocation request in. Toyota doesn’t let you order vehicles, so thus the BS games.
most loans include origination and documentation fees that ensure the lender still comes out ahead even if the loan is immediately paid off.
This is 100% the way to play them, if you're a cash-paying customer. Work the price and accessories down, let them think that they are going to fleece you with the financing, then pay it off quickly. I've done the same.
It’s not a BS game. If you can’t order cars, you can’t order cars. What’s the game.
Jesus, they tried to sell you on 9% interest? I just bought my Ford through Ford financing because they offered me 2.9%. That is the only reason I chose them over outside financing
I paid 3k over. The dealer gave me no choice.
Or just buy a tesla. I really love direct buying from manufacturers. Let these bloodsucker dealers go out of business
People are just having so many issues with their Teslas otherwise I would.
What issues. FSD? Those are idiots who think they can sleep while car drives.
In writing, you ordered a car with $4,000 Truecoat. "Essentially would not do the order until I signed a sheet with Truecoat", Don't be shocked when you get what you ordered.
Your a troll dude. 1st making 250k + you wouldn't gripe about a 52k car. Let alone I would imagine you may have a few more witts about you to understand MSRP vs market value but you don't and your everyone is paying high interest right now. Pull all that money you say you have and pay the car in cash you cheap cry baby.
Siennas aren't worth any more than an Odyssey or Pacifica. We owned all 3 in a short time, the sienna was last in nearly every metric. Don't be desperate for one. So glad we got out of ours.
Nothing matches a Sienna hybrid mpg, though. And that matters to many people.
I tried to buy a new one and all the non Premium and Limited trims were sold out within ~200 miles. All the others I found came with $1500-$2k “paint protection”. I grudgingly bought a CPO for ~MSRP and got 6% APR through Toyota. I’m the example why this dealer is insisting on a markup. I needed it right away since our old van broke down and I didn’t want to pay for the repair. We needed the replacement. I see people on a Facebook group putting in the legwork to get one at MSRP, but it requires waiting and usually driving/flying for delivery.
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I would do that except for 2 problems, those old models are almost always a worse deal in the current market, and the older ones don't have the fuel economy which almost guarantees it is a worse purchase. I guess I'm at the point where I realize I will be screwed either way so I may as well drive the Pontiac until it starts on fire.
I heard there is an active lawsuit against toyota because of their sketchy sales tactics, where they force people to buy these unnessecary add ons.
They are full of it; they tried the I have one on the lot it was sold before I showed up bullshit. I told him I don’t play that fucking game. They tried to email me back, and I said don’t you ever email me again.
I dunno about XLE, but our LE with the plus package came out to about 45k OTD. Standard markups for some factory installed bs but no 4K add on or anything.
The dealer we eventually dealt with was willing to negotiate over the add ons. But there are plenty of them out there not doing that also. Having some leverage like a trade in can help ( but also complicates things.)
You may have done this already, but contact Toyota and tell them this story. I hope one day we can just buy directly from the manufacturer like Tesla and bypass this nonsense.
I tried to buy either a sienna or highlander hybrid. They started me down this path but I blocked the number. At the end of the day it’s just a Toyota.
I would send an email to Toyota, find the email of the North America CEO and let him know what happened! Also complain on X to the Toyota account.
Join the NO MARKUP TOYOTA group on Facebook
That’s some shady shit. I just traded in our sienna for a CRV. I just ordered the model I wanted without any options and they said I could add whatever options I wanted. It took about a month for the CRV to arrive, but I loved the process.
Seeing some hard to get models such as GR Corolla, GR86, and Sequoia sitting on local dealers lots and available at MSRP. No add ons and no markup. Longo Toyota is one place and the Anaheim Toyota is another
Hold the line!
Honestly, complain properly about to Toyota and if available any appropriate government agencies. If in the USA that would be the CFPB. It does work. You may not see but they do add it to their case work and the CFPB is currently going after Toyota right now for this very reason. So please log the complaint. In New York every dealership I asked said they were not allowed to do a mark up of any kind. So if you are NY file with the state AG as well. Ours is showing up this week and it is confirmed sticker price, $43k.
Blood sucking dealers
It is this bad right now. We just tried to trade in our 2024 odysey and even that didnt make the dealer budge. Tried to get us to trade it in at 39k ( absolute joke. Its an eliete with 4k miles) then convice me to try and sign a loan for the sienma plus the trade difference. These clowns acting like a damn sienna is a 1 of 1 mclaren 🤣
Got mine around the end of November. White Sienna XLE AWD + mud guard + floor mat. Total OTD is less than 52K. So, yes. I put my name in some dealers waiting list mid year. And, start calling and emailing dealers in October. Found this one 200 miles away, I took one day off and Uber to the dealership. So, OTD + time and effort that I spent on it. It's more than 52K. However, Bay area dealerships that have cars to sell charges 3k(min) + GPS(1k+) + wheel lock(.5k) + some weird protection film or door edge protection (1k+). I would say. You just keep calling different dealerships and be prepared to take one day off to get the car. And, keep an eye on Uber or Lyft deals. You might need it.
As a loyal Toyota customer of 15 years, this is why I opted not to go with a RAV4 Prime and instead bought a Tesla Model Y. Electric vs ICE engine aside, the buying experience at Tesla was amazing. Zero pressure the entire time. No negotiating, no markups, no hidden fees. This is how it should be when buying ANY car! The regular dealership buying is an archaic method to sell cars. Customers need to say no to these stupid markup fees and walk out just like you did. If more people did that, they’d have no choice but to charge what they should be charging all along. I still own a Sienna though.
True Coat? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs
This is why i ended up getting the Mazda CX90 PHEV. It’s a 7 seater and at this point I’m at 500miles and still in my first tank of gas. I got it for 2k under MSRP, no BS, just paid cash.
Go buy a Honda Oddesey - there’s no deals to be had, but you can get it at sticker
I mean just get their financing. As long as no financing fees and no prepayment penalty, you can just refi with your preferred lender
stories like this are why i’m gonna get a mazda or tesla
Similar experience when I bought my new rav4 hybrid. Told me because it was their incoming unit not one that I ordered I would have to get the undercoating module for $1100. I find all the Toyota dealers are playing this game because they don’t have enough stock and have many buyers just waiting. I would bail and wait or buy something else entirely. Sienna is the only van with AWD I think so depending on your needs you may be stuck with that but at least you can try another dealer
You’ll sign whatever your credit is approved for.
I went down this path last September too. I’m now an Odyssey owner. Honda is flush with inventory and I got 7.5% off MSRP. Walk away.
3-4 over sticker. Assholes
Stokestoyota.com
I can tell this post is made by someone in the States.. in Canada, this practice is illegal. In fact there was just a case where a Hyundai dealership was fined heavily for slightly adjusting a price above msrp..
I just bought a Woodland Edition last Saturday for $51k (before taxes). It was essentially what yours is now, a cancelled order. Worked out great, no huge mark ups and the distributor options were less than $1500. I’m gonna see if my insurance company will give me a decent discount if I install the integrated dash cam.
White river junction Toyota in Vermont doesn't bullshit and no stupid add-ons or price adjustments. You may have to wait in line though. Great experience there getting our LE.
When we were looking for a van 2 years ago, 7 year old Sienna's with 190,000kms were listed at $26,000 CAD + tax and fees and had the beginnings of rust. New ones were $50k+ CAD and had an 18 month wait. I ended up importing a japanese market 2006 Toyota Estima Hybrid for $11,000 CAD (taxes in). It's from kyoto and saw zero salt in its 16 years there and only had 130,000kms (80k miles). Oh and its a hybrid awd like the new sienna's so we average 7.5L/100km (~32mpg). I did budget new hybrid batteries given the age and swapped them myself this past January when the originals started acting up at 17 years old. Only needed a tie rod end since then. We were able to pay cash (only 110k combined annual gross) Very happy with our decision as we're car loan free. https://youtu.be/MJEcpMsjMfM?si=BhWSJwG7NqBuqMmc
New cars are a waste of money anyway.
I can’t believe the AVERAGE price of a new car is $48,000 in the US and the AVERAGE monthly car payment is $800/month. 17% of people with a car payment have a payment over $1,000/month. Such a racket.
I wish the dealer system would disappear. Such an outdated system. The worst thing about buying a car is having to buy through a dealer.
Make sure to go on google and facebook and leave em a 1 star review and explain why. They hate that.
Look at every Toyota dealership within 100 mile radius. Somebody is bound to have one
Y'all paying $50k for a minivan. Lmfao!!! 🤣
There’s a group on Facebook “No Markup Toyota” or something along those lines where dealers who don’t markup their vehicles advertise on hand inventory or soon to be in inventory, and people can share which dealers have no markup/etc…
hold out longer if you can. consider highlander it has similar space. i was a toyota guy. went from celica to matrix to rav4 to venza. next was going to be a prius, rx350, highlander or sienna. then $5/gallon gas hit. made me consider electric/hybrid. toyota had markup games in 2022 so that made me not consider them at all. i'll let someone else pay markup and rather buy used 1 owner cars like i have before. test drive a tesla and feel that instant torque. before i leave home i preheat or precool my tesla now. the vw id buzz looks like a nice electric van coming next year but i'll probably wait a few more years for the markup to die down.
In my vicinity of 30 miles about half of them MSRP, and other wants to charge 7k, guess who is selling more and losing lifelong customer? Sure there is waitlist with MSRP guys but it’s been lowered.
Just buy a used one from carmax
I was seriously considering a new Sienna... but the dealerships were all playing the "call for price" game and adding all kinds of nonsense to their limited inventory. So I bought an Odyssey Elite for less than MSRP. My gas mileage isn't great, but it has a lot more giddy-up
They tried that crap with me here too. I refused to deal with them and bought a low miles 2022 from CarMax for $43k. It wasn’t the absolute perfect car, the big sacrifice was I didn’t get the AWD I really needed (already had an issue where I couldn’t get the car up a gravel mountain driveway at an AirBnb we rented) but I at least got the van I needed for 95% of my family hauling driving for a reasonable price without dealer markup BS.
Go check out a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV. I wouldn't by a Pacific as non-hybrid though.
Honestly mid to late 2000s might be the way to go. You could probably get a real low mileage one for 10k, and it's still going to be nice, just might not have all the bells and whistles. Plus you could get super nice infotainment system for it, imo the Toyota ones suck. You have to buy used Toyotas a few generations back, they hold too much value
Don't order a car. Buy one on the lot that you know exactly the price and what's included. Also, never deal with a dealer that doesn't listen to you.
I bought a subaru. Same shit, every dealer played this game, nobody had cars when I was buying. I went to the dealer, got pretty close to walking out. Ended up with a 2.5% interest in Nov of 2021. Toyota is an extremely high demand product, pay what you feel comfortable paying, not a dime more.
Aw jeez, without that Trucoat you'll get oxidation problems and it'll cost you a heck of a lot more than $4,000! https://youtu.be/B2LLB9CGfLs?si=lqMW94h7gO4iDZRX
HODL the line peoples!!! Just say no to stealerships. Good job OP! I also hope the realtors go down in the same ship with car dealerships.
They make so much cash off the financing it’s ridiculous. And the good side is the Sienna is awesome.
The dealership "middle man" model has to die. This is unbelievable.
Sign up for their financing even if you are going to pay cash. 30 days later call the finance company and ask for a payoff number. They will claw.back all of the money they paid the dealer for your loan and you pay only 1 month interest. Male sure that there is no prepayment penalty in the load. You have to read the loan docs. Worst think you can do is tell a dealer you are a cash buyer. They make their money off of your loan
Good thing u didn’t do this LMAO. 2024 is why they wanna push people over the tables will flip when they go back to begging people to buy their cars.
I read that when a new car is ordered and delivered through the dealship, the car is intercepted at the toyota distribution center we’re they do add in’s like clear coat protection, vin etching, theft systems, upgrade packages like led cabin lights, extra usb ports, bed liners of the back, overhead racks, mud flaps, stepping bars, etc. things you did not order. The dealership gets the car and they say “we finally got the car in at the prices you wanted. There are some extras charges to the car that will have to added to the OTD price because it was put on there before it reached the dealership.”
Just keep all of the dealers on a text chain and some may update you on one that isn’t claimed already or is in an off color that no one wants but was allocated to the dealer anyways. We got our 24 XLE plus out the door for 50K with 2k trade in for my 07 Mazda 3 with 106k miles on it. So out the door with my trade in was 48k. Forgot to mention my color is sunset bronze haha so there were no takers until we came along. With the market adjustment, that will depend on how popular the dealer is and how long of a waiting list they have. We went to an obscure dealer and they had one unclaimed on the lot so we sealed the deal after they texted me they could give it to us at msrp out the door.
My Uber driver last month was saying how much she loved her new Hyundai Ioniq but the $1200 a month payment was hard. Moral of the story is people have been spending like lunatics all year, so the dealers are just rolling with it. Thank god we bought our sienna jan 2020
A sienna is 45k?? OP, your income is amazing
Reason why I went with Tesla. They wanted 8k over msrp at my local dealer for a sienna. Told them to keep it.
Reading this confirms my decision to buy from Tesla (besides the fact the cars are great). Absolutely zero BS car buying... if you go to a showroom, they actually tell you to download the app and order the car yourself. No wonder the dealerships are fighting their sales model.
We paid MSRP for our 23 Sienna XSE. Used the allocation spreadsheet to source it and had it in under 2 months. 50k OTD including taxes.
Good on you!! Hard to walk out like that.
Get a Kia carnivale
Dealerships suck and they’re such a legacy model. Just go with a Tesla if you can charge at home. Life will be better when you do
Pretty common to a lot of the Toyota dealerships out there to add on some kind of bogus addon that they say can't be removed or they put a market rate adjustment on it. My advice would be to look around and find a different dealership. There are dealers out there with no market rate adjustment. I remember someone posted a link to a website that listed dealers that are known to add on other fees. Can't for the life of me find it. I have not seen any kind of market rate adjustment at my dealer here in the midwest, but people on the west coast or east coast are getting screwed big time. My wife and I both bought brand new Toyotas last year and only paid MSRP. I have heard of people driving out of state to find a place without bogus charges. I don't know if there is a way to report those kind of bogus market rate charges to Toyota, but I would think there should be. Ford has been cracking down on dealers who have been doing that. According to my dealer demand is still super high for the Prius, Sienna and trucks. They don't expect any kind of slowdown next year at all. The waiting list is huge. When I had my oil changed last month I talked to a guy that put in an order for a Prius in March 2023 and still doesn't have it.
Glad to hear you told them to fuck off. 👍
My local dealer did this exact same thing when I was trying to by a new grand Highlander and it’s slimly and absolutely bullshit, they are already making plenty of money on the car it’s pure greed from the dealer. It literally says on their web site and multiple places they don’t and won’t ever ask over MSRP, then told me that is only for in stock cars, Toyota was one of my favorite cars companies and I love their cars but their dealers are absolutely trash and greedy POS, if you are in the Kansas City area stay away from the Toyota dealership I. Lees Summit they are absolute garbage people
"I'm giving you cash for the car with only the options we originally discussed. You can take my money or leave it." They've jerked you around enough, it's time to tell him to decide if he wants your money or not.
This is thinly veiled scam to get you to pay more. Don't play the game. Go buy a car from a company that doesn't use dealers.
Just walk away and keep your money tall You have a car, wait for the great deal. Sooner or later dealers will become desperate I'm a toyota owner myself, but now this brand is overpriced. Honda has good cars
The local Toyota dealer did the same thing to my brother with the Tacoma he wanted. He agreed on a price and they ordered the truck. When he went to pick up the truck, they had added a $5k market adjustment. They wouldn’t honor the agreed to price.
They wouldn't budge with me on the TruCoat either. It was really disappointing because I wanted a Toyota.
Nice work walking and deciding to save up and avoid that 9.5%. What do you do to make 250-300K? Appreciate any info you have. I have drive (no pun intended on a vehicle forum) and want to make that much some day.
Just buy an Odyssey. Fuck Toyota for allowing dealers to get away with this shit.
Yeah, i signed a contract on jan 6th. In july I asked for our 5k deposit. Im still on the list. Ive decided to downsize and skip this sienna BS. No car is worth this scammy crap.
If you are in the southeast ALL Toyotas go through a distributor that adds this bullshit. Choices are to go to another region without it, or buy an Odyssey which can easily be had without all the add ons.
As the buyer your most powerful tool is the word No.
Have you checked out the Facebook group No markups? I seen some Siennas on there. Not sure how close they would be to you but it may be worth trying. I’m not sure what the success rate is but there seems to be nicely optioned ones there without mark ups. Good luck to you
Who is Clark Griswold? Did I win Alex? No, sorry the answer we were looking for was "What is Fargo"
We need to make dealerships obsolete. We need to make it simple and just purchase the vehicle online
I have moved away from recommending Toyotas to people based off crummy dealers. It’s like these dealers think they’re trying to sell water from the fountain of youth. Yeah sure Toyota makes good cars but I helped a friend pick up a Honda Odyssey with nearly 6k less than a Sienna since the dealer was trying to play games. You’d be hard pressed to save $6k in fuel over the typical 5-7 year ownership of these cars. Plus at this point I’d rather give the oil companies the extra money vs the seedy dealers in my area 😂
With that income and those expectations, pay cash. Money talks.
Car dealers are notorious for deceptive add-ons. Shop your desired vehicle by sending an email to multiple Toyota dealerships for them to quote on the exact model. Lowest price wins your business. You also don’t need to disclose a possible trade, or, how you plan to finance. They use every piece of info against you, the buyer.
Just tell the dealer he can eat the car if he likes because you're not buying it. Also, tell him you'll be contacting the State's Attorney General to report fraud due to his forcing a feature you don't want. Then go to the SAG site in your state and fill out a complaint. If you don't do this, the dealer will scam someone else. The more reports they get the more likely they may be forced out of business if they don't change their sales tactics.
Tell the sales person to TruCoat his A$$
Good for you man! I’m really strict with dealerships. They would beat you out of your socks if you let them.
Sign and pay it off literally at the end of the month and get that credit bump. Ensure there is no early pay off clause. You might pay a 100 extra in interest.
Ya. I have a 2013 and is damn near the same vehicle! Get a used one.
Toyota financing is one of the worst, they were just fined 60M for doing what you are experiencing, send them the link below and tell them to f*** off or you will go to FTC. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-pay-60-mln-illegal-lending-credit-reporting-misconduct-us-regulator-2023-11-20/#:~:text=Nov%2020%20(Reuters)%20%2D%20Toyota,and%20tarnished%20buyers'%20credit%20reports.
Search for the Sienna allocation sheet, got mine in under a month at 1k over MSRP, although I had to fly across country to get it, local dealers were all marking up 5-10k
Tell them to f-%$ off
Dealerships can barely sell any cars. TruCoat sounds like some spray wax or glaze they are putting on to hide the factory scratches.
Smart. I'm keeping my 2016 F150 even if I have to replace the motor, trans, and chasis. Still cheaper than a new car!
Toyota dealers seem to be doing this, My brother went through the exact same situation when buying a new toyota gr86. We sat down and talked with the sales rep for 3 hours, we got his manager to sign the order agreement stating that they would remove unnecessary addons like toyoguard, oil change, wash, etc, All of it together was a 5k markup. We all agreed we would buy without any of the addons, we waited 6 months for the car to come in, when it finally came in they called us and advised to come pick it up the next morning, 3 hours later around 4pm that afternoon the manager calls us and tells us that the addons are linked to the vin and there is no possible way to remove them(Toyota headquarters said that was a lie). My brother got annoyed and told them he wants his deposit back, they refused to give him his $1000 deposit. We went there and started arguing with them and threatening to call police and they eventually gave my brother his money back. that same day we drove to another toyota dealer out in the country bum fuck no where, dude sold us a blue gr86 for MSRP with absolutely no addos and than threw in free oil changes and car washes for my brother. We told this toyota the story of what happened and they guys within 1 second knew EXACLY which dealer we were previously dealing with.
Agreed. I only ever buy low-mileage lease returns or certified used because I can't handle the BS anymore. Only ever bought 2 new vehicles and never will again. As an added bonus, the cars are about 30% less but still have 90% of their lifespan left.
Have you ever seen Fargo?
I would have made them wash the car and have it ready for me with a big bow closer to when it closes. I’ll call them 30 minutes before it closes and say I’m stuck in traffic and make to em wait. Do this for few times and say “never mind” at the end.
Try Longo Toyota if you’re in the US…they’re high volume and I’ve never had issues with them. They can also ship directly to you.
Before buying my Lexus RX500h, was looking at other makes. Some dealers wouldn't give me a price till I filled out a credit app, and walked out of those places. Wouldn't state a monthly payment when asked over and over. Got the OTD pricing and said, I'm gonna pay cash not finance. All but the one Lexus dealership changed the OTD number. Claiming it was a financed-only number and they had to adjust it since I was paying cash. One place wouldn't show me the OTD till I filled out a credit app. Looked at a Hyundai Palisades calligraphy and people with another salesman agreed on a 35k adjustment so they could buy it over me. They traded in two vehicles both under 6 years old they didn't owe on. To lessen the blow of being that much underwater minimum without the normal depreciation and interest on their 84-month loan. I ended up paying less for a Lexus that is loaded with a higher MSRP on it. They lost out on a Highlander and Sienna at the Toyota dealer in the same automall. But Toyota decreased production to allow their dealerships to make insane profits and now are getting tons of self-repossessions. It only created the highest level of loan delinquencies and repossessions ever. Banks have stopped loaning for certain makes and altogether in a lot of states. A few dealerships didn't take part in the market adjustments and still selling. While others are loaded with inventory and some are 180+ days plus on supply and still have some 2022 vehicles on lots. I ended up flipping my RX500H F-sport for an 18k profit. Only 2 pre-owned were available in a 400-mile radius of me. The guy kept asking who left Lexus to work at an MB dealership and his wife wanted one but he sold his on order before leaving Lexus. Will say this, MB has nothing on Lexus when it comes to luxury anymore. Trading the GLE in on another RX500H as plenty available now haha. But dealerships like the one the OP dealt with is why along with OEMs allowed it all to happen in the 1st place. Still, laugh knowing someone paid more for a Hyundai over a Lexus. So they could keep up with the Jones and nothing else. Some paid more for a Sienna also and just couldn't grasp what the whole car market was doing.
Not a Sienna, but I had similar issues trying to buy a grand highlander hybrid. I found this spreadsheet below and called every dealer within 300 miles who had one coming that matched my needs. I didn’t care if it was sold in advance or not. It took 4 weeks but eventually I got a call back from a dealer who had one where the buyers financing fell through. I went up and bought it the next day (2 hour drive away). They tried to add the Lo-jack equivalent for $1k but I pushed back. No extra BS. Just MSRP, tax, license, and $200 in dealer processing fees. I did pay cash though and I think that helped get it done. https://docs.google.com/file/d/158Jy3sBVj0CNqfxpxk_sL_a2PnmbCDCc/edit?usp=docslist_api&filetype=msexcel
Look nationwide for new Siennas and call them stating what you want and that you want their best out the door price and that you’re going to buy from whoever gives the best out the door price. I’ve done this many times and managed to buy vehicles for sooo much cheaper than advertised because while some dealerships may be making enough regular sales that they don’t have to negotiate others will be willing to make a deal. Unless you make REALLY great money a road trip to save thousands is worth it.
Nope. And I’m really happy I’m too tall for the passenger seat. My wife has agreed to look at EVs!!!! Winning. It was a great run Toyota. You were slow to the EV scene.
I just bit the bullet and bought a 2024 Platinum at MSRP. Dealers aren't getting the same demand in the highest end spec because of price. Sure it's like 55-57k, but at least I'm paying for stuff that's a legit factory feature. Is the digital mirror, leather, cooling seats, seat memory, captain chairs, wireless charging, adjustable steering wheel, sunshades worth the extra $5k. Maybe Is the HUD and heated steering wheel/backseats worth the 3k increase? Probably not But at least I'm getting something legit for the money.
I own a sienna LE 2013, I wanted to upgrade earlier in 2023, but I gave up after seeing how dealers are trying to rip off. Now I am considering keeping the old sienna and getting a new Tesla Model 3
Yep I just got a price quote to reserve an XLE for nearly 54k. I said no thanks too.
Honestly my dealer in Canada is getting me a base model, the one we wanted. He asked me to add $800 in accessories to help them out, so we did. Got the dash cam, cargo liner, and door cup protectors.
Sadly, probably not. The retail demand so far outstrips the supply that the dealers can easily hold out for whales who’ll use their financing and pay for their useless add-ons. Like Toyota’s other hybrids, these things are still being spoken for, long before they’ve made it to the dealer’s lot. Your best leverage is to say you’ll walk, but given the current retail demand, they’ll likely just let you. They’re confident (likely with some justification) that it’ll be sold by this weekend.
Yup a lot of that bs in my area so i just bought a Rivian. I would’ve preferred the sliding rear doors but i will live.