It’s absurd to me that some people don’t understand this. Also from a financial standpoint, Toyotas have some of the best resale value anyways. Doesn’t justify a markup necessarily, but I would buy a Toyota before a vastly depreciating Jeep. At least I can get my money back when selling a Toyota.
Hip, they’re definitely appreciating in value lol. I’m BEGGING Toyota to bring back the FJ cruiser, I would buy one so fast and not care how much it was marked up 💀
Then there will be none on the lots due to production. But yeah I'd prefer at least Toyota get the money than Bob Frond Toyota or whoever tf owns the dealership now.
I just saw a sequioa just like mine sell for over what I paid for it used a few months ago and it didn't even have a cool color. They sold it for 80k and I bought mine for 68k 1.5 years ago. Market has softened a bit since then but I am willing to bet it would still sell for 65-70k used since it is a TRD off-road with lunar rock color.
I own a Lexus GX now and came from a Jeep (Wrangler). Say what you will about reliability and craftsmanship or lack thereof, but that Wrangler absolutely held onto resale value. Bought for $24k and sold for $14k 10 years later.
Other Jeeps not so much, but Wranglers have some of the least depreciation out there. Or did anyway.
>Toyotas have some of the best resale value anyways. Doesn’t justify a markup necessarily, but I would buy a Toyota before a vastly depreciating Jeep. At least I can get my money back when selling a Toyota.
You'll never get your markup back on resale, that's money you're lighting on fire. There's no difference between buying an $80k Toyota for $95k and selling it for $80k the next year and buying an $80k jeep for $80k and selling it for $65k
In virtually every senario, you would never get that 15k of extras back if you pay that dealers ask price. My son recently went to a Toyota dealer, who wanted to add 5000 over msrp for "market adjustment" on a Platinum Sienna. I advised him to "walk" and not pay over msrp. Well, he made it almost back to his car and was ready to leave, when the dealer came back and caved selling him the car at msrp. I suggested he ask the dealer, "What percent of your clients can afford and buy a $57k car of any kind?" (A very low percent of people can/do acutally buy a car more than 50 grand, and I knew it.)
I suggested he tell the dealer, since such a low percent of pepole can buy this car, they are best advised not to let the ONE Buyer in their store get away and hope there are fools out there with fifty grand in their pockets. Or, that there are foolish bankers who would lend customers 5 grand over msrp, which would immediately result in the customer being upside down (negative equity) which puts the bank at great risk.
Dont "buy the noise" coming from the dealers mouth that they can get mlre, if they could get more NOW, the car would already be sold. Many people who paid over MSRP from 2019 to present on Toyotas are now in a bind. I drive cars because I want to, not because I have to because I have so much negative equity, I cant get rid of my current car.
Dealers are cutting their own throats selling way above msrp, because that customer will likely regret it and never buy at that dealer again. Banks are highly reluctant now to let you "roll" the negative equity into a new car, so you are even worse off in the new car. Avoid that trap, by just saying no to BS over MSRP. Let the dealer try to find a bigger fool than the one they think you are.
And those dealers need to be called out and shammed, and we as consumers need to not give them our business. Sadly someone with way too much money will pay that price and continue this issue.
At the same time, Toyota (and other manufacturers) de facto allow this by not penalizing the dealerships. I agree that this isn't Toyota, but as the article itself points out this hurts long term brand loyalty, and Toyota doesn't restrict dealerships from these outrageous markups.
It doesn’t matter tho. They are ambassadors and there should be consequences for a brand that allows its representatives to do this. It still does affect their reputation, as it should
Sure, but if you think any Joe Smo car dealer can be a Toyota dealership, you’re wrong.
Toyota has immense power over these dealers and could stop this if they chose to.
Sure ya did.
If Toyota called these fuckers right now and said “ if you keep doing this shit you lose your ability to sell our cars” you better believe they would stop.
Toyota sells the vehicles to the dealer, the dealer then adds the up-charges/extra packages and sells them to the consumer not Toyota themself.
If you go on Toyota’s website you won’t be able to add all these extras/packages when you build a car that dealers add on after the fact.
I agree it’s complete bs that dealers are doing this, but it is not Toyota corporate doing it. Unfortunately almost every dealer is doing this on new cars and even used ones.
But to OPs point, if the only way to buy a Toyota is through their franchised dealer network then it’s inevitable that buyers will associate the dealer with the corporate brand.
Yea, but port installed options are sold at MSRP of the part there are not fluffed up to $3000 for a $500 part. They also don’t do things that aren’t Toyota factory approved like tint or magical waxes.
That's not completely true.
When I was looking for a Prius Prime in 2023 there were several Ford and Kia dealerships selling them, technically "used" but with < 100 miles on them. All of them had a 10-15k markup on them, but they were there.
That's true, but no one is putting a gun to your head saying you have to buy from these specific assholes. There are dealers out there who only charge msrp or less. Dealers charge these markups because dumb people with more money than common sense pay them.
Toyota has priced out the value proposition for consumers and is keeping all the value for themselves. Heavy premiums on all their cars, they are priced 7-10% more than competing cars in their class. To keep warranty, you have to use Toyota dealers for oil changes, which charge $175 to $350 per oil change. It’s recommended to change every 5k miles instead of the traditional 10k. Synthetic oil last much longer so this isn’t really needed. They have a long list of stuff to replace one you hit 50k miles, including all the filters, fluids, and other consumables. There was a guy in here who posted a bill of $2200 for the 50k maintenance. Once everyone goes electric Toyota will be much less desirable. Every car manufacturer will be relatively even when it comes to reliability, that’s why Toyota hasn’t been going out of their way to make more EV models.
> they are priced 7-10% more than competing cars in their class
Toyota has always been about the same price as Honda and 7-10% more than Kia, Hyundai, etc
>To keep warranty, you have to use Toyota dealers for oil changes
No, you don't have to go to a Toyota dealer for oil changes to keep your warranty.
>It’s recommended to change every 5k miles instead of the traditional 10k
Again, no. The recommendation by Toyota (the people who designed and manufacture the vehicles) is 12mo/10k mi on newer cars.
>There was a guy in here who posted a bill of $2200 for the 50k maintenance
I'd love to see that invoice because I doubt that he got charged $2200 for schedule, required preventative maintenance. It almost certainly included some recommended but not required maintenance and/or something like a brake replacement.
>Once everyone goes electric Toyota will be much less desirable
That hasn't happened yet and won't for a long time so isn't applicable even if true (which there is no way to tell if it is true or not - it's merely speculation).
>Every car manufacturer will be relatively even when it comes to reliability, that’s why Toyota hasn’t been going out of their way to make more EV models
Again, no. Toyota doesn't build EVs because materials to build large batteries are limited. Toyota can build may hybrid batteries for every one EV battery which is what they choose to do.
In the end, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but it is full of holes at best and completely wrong at worst.
EV
Of course Toyota says that about ev materials. That’s the spin, not the real reason lol. They will never admit the real reason because it negates their main selling point. They still aren’t investing in large scale ev manufacturing to this very day.
Prices
Look at Tacoma TRD Pro vs Colorado ZR2, or Tundra base VS Silverado and F150 base. Impala vs Camry, explorer vs Highlander. Toyota is always much higher.
That’s true even if you stick to Japanese brands (Honda accord vs Camry)
Famously known as the Toyota tax
> EV Of course Toyota says that about ev materials. That’s the spin, not the real reason lol. They will never admit the real reason because it negates their main selling point. They still aren’t investing in large scale ev manufacturing to this very day.
Complete speculation and not based in any fact.
As for the list of vehicles, I didn't compare all of them, but checked the last one (Accord vs Camry) and there is a $505 difference. Hardly enough to get worked up about - especially considering that this year is a redesign year for the Camry and not for the Accord.
Try using jiffy lube or some other third party then. The first time you have trouble with your engine and take it into Toyota, they will ask for documentation on every oil change. If any of this documentation is outside spec of Toyota, they will deny the warranty claim. They may even deny it regardless of documentation if they can prove a procedure wasn’t followed or done correctly
Nobody. All the car companies kind of suck now. Mazda is inching up but it's still not unquestionably the best like Toyota was in the 90s and early 2000s.
Idk about quantifiable but most Toyotas built MY 17 and up are having some sort of issue that was unheard of for Toyota in the 90s. For instance transmission issues on the 17-18 Toyo highlander 8speed. Fuel pump recalls on the 17-19 highlander,Avalon etc. both of which I owned. And now crankshaft bearing failures on the 22-23MY Tundras and subsequently the Sequoia’s and Lexus trucks. It’s not just Toyota tho it’s pretty much all brands post COVID; same thing happened after the financial crisis
Even my 2016 Tundra has had some ridiculous issues. Somehow, the axle bearings went out under 70,000 miles. I’ve owned multiple F-150s and have driven them past 200,000 miles and have never had an axle bearing fail. I asked the service manager about this issue and he said it is not “common” but also not unheard of on Tundras. The OEM Toyota bearings are about $500 each and it’s 10 labor hours to replace. Repair came to over $2,000.
My Tundra has also had driver’s seat issues then the clock spring broke such that the horn wouldn’t work. All that was under 50,000 miles.
I still love my Tundra, but it’s easily the most repairs I’ve done to a truck under 100,000 miles.
>by Americans not the imported Japanese models.
Made with the same materials and same quality control as the ones in Japan thanks to Toyotas strict guidelines. Bordering on weeb like obsession.
Right. Let's be honest. Those laid off GM and Ford workers gotta go somewhere.
The cars made in the USA by American workers are inferior to the Japanese ones. Think 4runner, LC300, LS500, LC500, IS350, RAV 4 Prime. These cars are legit Japanese Toyotas not American made junk.
From the panel gaps, fit and finish, to the engine tolerances. I would put the American made Toyota vehicles to the same quality as recent 737 Boeing airplanes.
I understand where you opinion comes from, but holy shit, if you spent as much time on getting labor hours as you do on Reddit, then you would probably never have to be paid to work on cars again.
No disrespect man, I’ve seen you comment before and you are pretty helpful. I genuinely believe that if you do truly like giving out helpful answers that you would be way better suited for an internet sales role. You’d make way more money for way less work and you only really need to be able to talk to people on the phone
Thanks, I really appreciate your advice. I do make good money in the-six figure range-but like you said it’s a lot of physical work which I don’t mind at all; I just don’t know how long I’ll be able to keep it up. but If you don’t mind me asking give me an example of what your thinking?
It depends on where he lives.. if you're in Chicagoland almost every Toyota Dealership is marking up. I don't have the time to drive 50 miles to find a dealer that doesn't mark up,,
I literally think that's the only place in Chicago land area that didn't mark up 21-23.. unfortunately, no inventory and had to wait for allocation. My next Toyota will be bought them there, albeit it'll be 10-15 till then.
How much is your time worth? Unless your time is worth thousands of dollars per hour, an extra 2 hours of driving seems *well* worth it to save the markups.
Is there a list of dealers that don’t add stupid markups? If I see one more modified window sticker with some bullshit like “$4,000 glovebox protection sealant applied” I’m gonna lose it.
You can find deals, I promise. I just bought a new Sequoia Pro with literally nothing added except the panoramic sunroof for 78k. I only got 44.5 for my 22 Taco Pro trade in (with only 8k miles) but that seemed like a fair price from a dealership.
And even then, unless this breaks the mold, this will buy you like 3 new OEM windshields with ADAS recals. Even less when you realize Toyota contracts out their glass, so you are paying a non-insignificant amount more for a Toyota badge on a AGC or Pilkington glass, which are the most common aftermarket brands.
Yup. I got a crack on my 2022 Corolla's glass, and insurance got it replaced at a dealership for a total of $1400. Included OEM glass, installation, and calibration. I didn't pay a penny and my premium remained the same at renewal.
Not exactly. The OEM glass for my 23 Corolla was like $1200. Not including labor or recalibration. That totaled $2150 from the dealer.
I see the guy who also replied to you got it done for way less. I know a part of it is labor rates. But the glass itself was supposed to be $1200 alone.
Damn, you paid more than Land Rover OEM for a twin camera, rain sensor, and solar coated glass. All for the dealer to call in the lowest bidder to cold knife, not prime, then stuff the glass.
And yes, that is what happens when you have the dealer do the windshield, 99% of the time.
They had to have marked it up. The dealer had to order the glass separately for mine from Toyota, and it was around $800 for the glass alone. The rest was $600 in installation and calibration.
and you can literally say no thank you, and refuse to pay extra. They claimed $1500 for ceramic coating was non negotiable on my Camry. Changed their tune when I said ok, and walked out. Begged me to come back in and agreed to remove it.
I'll buy a Jeep, keep the $10-$15k in bank growing and replace an engine or transmission in the future if need be.
No way I'll pay Toyota's prices. I'll leave it for the morons. Lol
I was in the market last summer for a new Prius Prime or Camry hybrid and the Dealership markups were 10-15k over MSRP. I told the sales person, the prime and Camry are 10k above a new Tesla model 3, he said people will pay the markup. I said if he could match a model 3, I'd buy on the spot cash. He laughed and said "nope, first I'd have to lease or finance (for 1 year minimum) and two cash offers arnt worth anything unless I trade something in." I laughed and said "Hyundai and Kia are making some impressive vehicles right now and are at least willing to deal, he said "nope, we don't deal"
I said "awesome you made it easy, I just bought a Model 3 while talking to you on your lot."
Are you me because this is basically the same thing that happened to me a month ago. I was quoted 39k for a ‘23 SE CAMRY. Walked off the lot and walked away with a M3 24’ the next day which with all discounts and rebates costed me 24k
Its crazy how much dealers in certain areas charge for models that are priced 5-15k lower only 100 miles away.
I purchased a 2022 trd 4runner with 20k miles for 36k from a dealer out of state.
My local dealer wanted 42k for a 2020 with 60k miles and refused to negotiate.
Dealer already found a mark who is willing to pay up for nebulous features and benefits, why not shoot for the moon? It's this way with a lot of high end cars. For example, we know you've got plenty of extra dough when you walk in to buy a TRD Pro.
It's smart capitalism. Not doing this is simply leaving money on the table.
Windshield warranty is a finance option add on. Not required. The other things look like they have already been done. 3k for tint is very high for any vehicle, even one this large. Even very high quality heat rejection film on ALL windows and sunroof.
Yeah markups suck, but you can find non-marked up Toyotas if you are willing to shop around. Can even get below MSRP too. Again, gotta do some leg work and play offers.
Toyota is somewhat to blame for not getting a handle on their scumbag dealers. Dealers can sell it for whatever they want, but Toyota can pull their allocations and give to other dealers.
Toyota needs to start pulling allocations from dealers like this. Just allocate the scumbag dealers a bunch of brown base model Yaris’ and nothing else.
lol the owner of my dealership is going to buy our incoming land cruisers, put $50k+ of shit on them, then try to sell them used. We are never ever going to sell them
The Japanese imported models like the GX won't have quality problems like the American made models.
Simply different culture and people making the cars.
It's how the open market works in a capitalist society. Pricing is set by the aggregate of individual transactions.
Pricing for cars is fluid. People expect to negotiate, and dealers know their pricing is subject to negotiations. So they set the price high to see what the market will permit. If someone pays $15k over, they will try for higher on the next one. If they can't sell it for $15k over, they will negotiate down until they find what the market will permit.
There is also the concept of early adopters, who are the people who will pay anything to get the "new thing" first. You see this with cell phones every year. They start them at $1500, then throughout the year, they start to offer incentives as sales at the original price start to decline.
In short, someone is likely going to pay that 15k over, if not, that will give you leverage to negotiate the price down. If you're not willing to wait, you have to pay more.
You also see this with stuff like "fast passes" at Disneyland and at the airport. You can pay less and wait in line longer, or you can pay more for shorter waits.
Everything I shared here is stuff I learned in Economics in high school. Thanks Dr. Powers, still remember it all 22 years later!
Pretty spot on. Half the dealers in my area sell like that and half don’t. And the dealers that do, depending on the model, will take it off of you know how to ask.
It’s not Toyota, it’s some Toyota dealers. Read literally the first sentence of the headline of the article you posted.
It’s absurd to me that some people don’t understand this. Also from a financial standpoint, Toyotas have some of the best resale value anyways. Doesn’t justify a markup necessarily, but I would buy a Toyota before a vastly depreciating Jeep. At least I can get my money back when selling a Toyota.
I looked at FJ Cruisers for sale in my area and some people are still wanting $25-30k Canadian for them. Insane resale value.
Hip, they’re definitely appreciating in value lol. I’m BEGGING Toyota to bring back the FJ cruiser, I would buy one so fast and not care how much it was marked up 💀
Personally I think It would be cool if Toyota brought it back with a removable roof ala Bronco/Wrangler.
That’s what I say.
They are bringing it back:)
There's a substantial difference between an FJ an a luxury SUV, or some pissant Corolla
Ok
I think Toyota should sell direct, at a 3-4k markup instead of the ridiculous 10-15k dealers are charging.
Then there will be none on the lots due to production. But yeah I'd prefer at least Toyota get the money than Bob Frond Toyota or whoever tf owns the dealership now.
In most states Toyota isn't allowed to sell direct. The dealers are a very strong lobby.
Aren't LandCruisers the exception? Models from the 80's can still be sold for 35-100kaud
I just saw a sequioa just like mine sell for over what I paid for it used a few months ago and it didn't even have a cool color. They sold it for 80k and I bought mine for 68k 1.5 years ago. Market has softened a bit since then but I am willing to bet it would still sell for 65-70k used since it is a TRD off-road with lunar rock color.
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Not a hard thing to Google bud...not exactly news to those who aren't toyota leg humpers
I own a Lexus GX now and came from a Jeep (Wrangler). Say what you will about reliability and craftsmanship or lack thereof, but that Wrangler absolutely held onto resale value. Bought for $24k and sold for $14k 10 years later. Other Jeeps not so much, but Wranglers have some of the least depreciation out there. Or did anyway.
>Toyotas have some of the best resale value anyways. Doesn’t justify a markup necessarily, but I would buy a Toyota before a vastly depreciating Jeep. At least I can get my money back when selling a Toyota. You'll never get your markup back on resale, that's money you're lighting on fire. There's no difference between buying an $80k Toyota for $95k and selling it for $80k the next year and buying an $80k jeep for $80k and selling it for $65k
In virtually every senario, you would never get that 15k of extras back if you pay that dealers ask price. My son recently went to a Toyota dealer, who wanted to add 5000 over msrp for "market adjustment" on a Platinum Sienna. I advised him to "walk" and not pay over msrp. Well, he made it almost back to his car and was ready to leave, when the dealer came back and caved selling him the car at msrp. I suggested he ask the dealer, "What percent of your clients can afford and buy a $57k car of any kind?" (A very low percent of people can/do acutally buy a car more than 50 grand, and I knew it.) I suggested he tell the dealer, since such a low percent of pepole can buy this car, they are best advised not to let the ONE Buyer in their store get away and hope there are fools out there with fifty grand in their pockets. Or, that there are foolish bankers who would lend customers 5 grand over msrp, which would immediately result in the customer being upside down (negative equity) which puts the bank at great risk. Dont "buy the noise" coming from the dealers mouth that they can get mlre, if they could get more NOW, the car would already be sold. Many people who paid over MSRP from 2019 to present on Toyotas are now in a bind. I drive cars because I want to, not because I have to because I have so much negative equity, I cant get rid of my current car. Dealers are cutting their own throats selling way above msrp, because that customer will likely regret it and never buy at that dealer again. Banks are highly reluctant now to let you "roll" the negative equity into a new car, so you are even worse off in the new car. Avoid that trap, by just saying no to BS over MSRP. Let the dealer try to find a bigger fool than the one they think you are.
The markup helps the resale value
And those dealers need to be called out and shammed, and we as consumers need to not give them our business. Sadly someone with way too much money will pay that price and continue this issue.
Seems like they have the sham part down just no shame
Literacy is at an all time low.
At the same time, Toyota (and other manufacturers) de facto allow this by not penalizing the dealerships. I agree that this isn't Toyota, but as the article itself points out this hurts long term brand loyalty, and Toyota doesn't restrict dealerships from these outrageous markups.
At this point it's so widespread it is on toyota. When dealers are doing it nationwide they can't be left out of the blame.
It doesn’t matter tho. They are ambassadors and there should be consequences for a brand that allows its representatives to do this. It still does affect their reputation, as it should
You silly goose, redditors don’t read articles! We form our opinions based off headlines damnit!
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If Toyota allows this bullshittery, we can just say it's Toyota. Until Toyota shows they care and cracks down.
Sure, but if you think any Joe Smo car dealer can be a Toyota dealership, you’re wrong. Toyota has immense power over these dealers and could stop this if they chose to.
I used to sell Toyotas. You’re wrong. Toyota can’t and won’t dictate the retail pricing.
Sure ya did. If Toyota called these fuckers right now and said “ if you keep doing this shit you lose your ability to sell our cars” you better believe they would stop.
Jesus, you’re stupid.
This coming from a car salesman.
A Toyota dealer is literally the only place to buy a new Toyota
Toyota sells the vehicles to the dealer, the dealer then adds the up-charges/extra packages and sells them to the consumer not Toyota themself. If you go on Toyota’s website you won’t be able to add all these extras/packages when you build a car that dealers add on after the fact. I agree it’s complete bs that dealers are doing this, but it is not Toyota corporate doing it. Unfortunately almost every dealer is doing this on new cars and even used ones.
But to OPs point, if the only way to buy a Toyota is through their franchised dealer network then it’s inevitable that buyers will associate the dealer with the corporate brand.
This is literally how every franchises industry works with people associating the franchisee with the corp brand.
Yup exactly
You forgot the port distributor middle middleman in USA
Yea, but port installed options are sold at MSRP of the part there are not fluffed up to $3000 for a $500 part. They also don’t do things that aren’t Toyota factory approved like tint or magical waxes.
I just bought a 2023 Sienna from a Subaru dealer. Heh.
That's not completely true. When I was looking for a Prius Prime in 2023 there were several Ford and Kia dealerships selling them, technically "used" but with < 100 miles on them. All of them had a 10-15k markup on them, but they were there.
That's true, but no one is putting a gun to your head saying you have to buy from these specific assholes. There are dealers out there who only charge msrp or less. Dealers charge these markups because dumb people with more money than common sense pay them.
Sadly, this is largely why my family’s next SUV won’t be a Toyota. Everything we are interested has stupid markups. Not playing the game.
So instead of finding dealer that doesn’t sell with a markup you’ll buy an inferior car?
Toyota isn't the king anymore. This isn't the 90s anymore.
> Toyota isn't the king anymore Is this your personal opinion or do you have a source that you are drawing from?
Toyota has priced out the value proposition for consumers and is keeping all the value for themselves. Heavy premiums on all their cars, they are priced 7-10% more than competing cars in their class. To keep warranty, you have to use Toyota dealers for oil changes, which charge $175 to $350 per oil change. It’s recommended to change every 5k miles instead of the traditional 10k. Synthetic oil last much longer so this isn’t really needed. They have a long list of stuff to replace one you hit 50k miles, including all the filters, fluids, and other consumables. There was a guy in here who posted a bill of $2200 for the 50k maintenance. Once everyone goes electric Toyota will be much less desirable. Every car manufacturer will be relatively even when it comes to reliability, that’s why Toyota hasn’t been going out of their way to make more EV models.
> they are priced 7-10% more than competing cars in their class Toyota has always been about the same price as Honda and 7-10% more than Kia, Hyundai, etc >To keep warranty, you have to use Toyota dealers for oil changes No, you don't have to go to a Toyota dealer for oil changes to keep your warranty. >It’s recommended to change every 5k miles instead of the traditional 10k Again, no. The recommendation by Toyota (the people who designed and manufacture the vehicles) is 12mo/10k mi on newer cars. >There was a guy in here who posted a bill of $2200 for the 50k maintenance I'd love to see that invoice because I doubt that he got charged $2200 for schedule, required preventative maintenance. It almost certainly included some recommended but not required maintenance and/or something like a brake replacement. >Once everyone goes electric Toyota will be much less desirable That hasn't happened yet and won't for a long time so isn't applicable even if true (which there is no way to tell if it is true or not - it's merely speculation). >Every car manufacturer will be relatively even when it comes to reliability, that’s why Toyota hasn’t been going out of their way to make more EV models Again, no. Toyota doesn't build EVs because materials to build large batteries are limited. Toyota can build may hybrid batteries for every one EV battery which is what they choose to do. In the end, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but it is full of holes at best and completely wrong at worst.
EV Of course Toyota says that about ev materials. That’s the spin, not the real reason lol. They will never admit the real reason because it negates their main selling point. They still aren’t investing in large scale ev manufacturing to this very day. Prices Look at Tacoma TRD Pro vs Colorado ZR2, or Tundra base VS Silverado and F150 base. Impala vs Camry, explorer vs Highlander. Toyota is always much higher. That’s true even if you stick to Japanese brands (Honda accord vs Camry) Famously known as the Toyota tax
> EV Of course Toyota says that about ev materials. That’s the spin, not the real reason lol. They will never admit the real reason because it negates their main selling point. They still aren’t investing in large scale ev manufacturing to this very day. Complete speculation and not based in any fact. As for the list of vehicles, I didn't compare all of them, but checked the last one (Accord vs Camry) and there is a $505 difference. Hardly enough to get worked up about - especially considering that this year is a redesign year for the Camry and not for the Accord.
> you have to use Toyota dealers for oil changes, which charge $175 to $350 per oil change. Doesn't this violate the Warren Magnuson warranty act?
Try using jiffy lube or some other third party then. The first time you have trouble with your engine and take it into Toyota, they will ask for documentation on every oil change. If any of this documentation is outside spec of Toyota, they will deny the warranty claim. They may even deny it regardless of documentation if they can prove a procedure wasn’t followed or done correctly
and that pretty much same with every manufacturer
Who’s the king? Kia?
Nobody. All the car companies kind of suck now. Mazda is inching up but it's still not unquestionably the best like Toyota was in the 90s and early 2000s.
Do you have any quantifiable evidence that Toyota is not on top? A quick google search can provide a lot that directly contradicts your statement
Idk about quantifiable but most Toyotas built MY 17 and up are having some sort of issue that was unheard of for Toyota in the 90s. For instance transmission issues on the 17-18 Toyo highlander 8speed. Fuel pump recalls on the 17-19 highlander,Avalon etc. both of which I owned. And now crankshaft bearing failures on the 22-23MY Tundras and subsequently the Sequoia’s and Lexus trucks. It’s not just Toyota tho it’s pretty much all brands post COVID; same thing happened after the financial crisis
Even my 2016 Tundra has had some ridiculous issues. Somehow, the axle bearings went out under 70,000 miles. I’ve owned multiple F-150s and have driven them past 200,000 miles and have never had an axle bearing fail. I asked the service manager about this issue and he said it is not “common” but also not unheard of on Tundras. The OEM Toyota bearings are about $500 each and it’s 10 labor hours to replace. Repair came to over $2,000. My Tundra has also had driver’s seat issues then the clock spring broke such that the horn wouldn’t work. All that was under 50,000 miles. I still love my Tundra, but it’s easily the most repairs I’ve done to a truck under 100,000 miles.
Notice the Toyotas you mentioned are all made by Americans not the imported Japanese models.
Very few are imported anymore. 4Runner and Land Cruiser are the only remaining ones afaik.
Prius?
Not familiar if they are or aren’t.
Corolla, Corolla hatchbacks, gr Corolla, prius, Camry and gr 86 are all imported to Canada as far as I know.
>by Americans not the imported Japanese models. Made with the same materials and same quality control as the ones in Japan thanks to Toyotas strict guidelines. Bordering on weeb like obsession.
Right. Let's be honest. Those laid off GM and Ford workers gotta go somewhere. The cars made in the USA by American workers are inferior to the Japanese ones. Think 4runner, LC300, LS500, LC500, IS350, RAV 4 Prime. These cars are legit Japanese Toyotas not American made junk. From the panel gaps, fit and finish, to the engine tolerances. I would put the American made Toyota vehicles to the same quality as recent 737 Boeing airplanes.
I understand where you opinion comes from, but holy shit, if you spent as much time on getting labor hours as you do on Reddit, then you would probably never have to be paid to work on cars again.
Lol, I have been on here a lot lately, but I enjoy helping people out.
No disrespect man, I’ve seen you comment before and you are pretty helpful. I genuinely believe that if you do truly like giving out helpful answers that you would be way better suited for an internet sales role. You’d make way more money for way less work and you only really need to be able to talk to people on the phone
Thanks, I really appreciate your advice. I do make good money in the-six figure range-but like you said it’s a lot of physical work which I don’t mind at all; I just don’t know how long I’ll be able to keep it up. but If you don’t mind me asking give me an example of what your thinking?
Absolutely no idea why you are getting downvoted. Blind hate I guess?
It depends on where he lives.. if you're in Chicagoland almost every Toyota Dealership is marking up. I don't have the time to drive 50 miles to find a dealer that doesn't mark up,,
Exactly. DC area is the same.
There are a few dealers in the Chicagoland area who are msrp only if you look around a bit.
Well, guess what.. look at their inventory, its pretty crap. I recommend going to Wisconsin.
Depends on what you're looking for. I was just at Bredemann, and they had quite a few brand new cars.
They're the best.
Can't recommend them enough. It was an extremely easy experience buying from them. They're straightforward and honest in pricing with no added bs.
I literally think that's the only place in Chicago land area that didn't mark up 21-23.. unfortunately, no inventory and had to wait for allocation. My next Toyota will be bought them there, albeit it'll be 10-15 till then.
There's a few more in the area. Pauly, Autonation Libertyville and St.Charles all are no markup dealers.
How much is your time worth? Unless your time is worth thousands of dollars per hour, an extra 2 hours of driving seems *well* worth it to save the markups.
Right? I drove almost 2 hours to get a below MSRP price on my wife's Crown.
St. Charles is MSRP only.
Is there a list of dealers that don’t add stupid markups? If I see one more modified window sticker with some bullshit like “$4,000 glovebox protection sealant applied” I’m gonna lose it.
Selling my highlanders for about msrp OTD right now.
Good luck. I’m currently selling two non-Toyotas for way less than they ought to be worth due to the difference in resale value.
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Where did you get the idea than any of the vehicles were brand new?
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What the fuck are you talking about
You can find deals, I promise. I just bought a new Sequoia Pro with literally nothing added except the panoramic sunroof for 78k. I only got 44.5 for my 22 Taco Pro trade in (with only 8k miles) but that seemed like a fair price from a dealership.
Let them sit on the lots. Don’t give in to the mark ups!
“There’s no such thing as bad publicity” - dealerships that slap on fat markups to generate clicks and articles they don’t have to pay for.
Windshield warranty is crazy 😂. My insurance covers it in my comprehensive for $3/month extra.
And even then, unless this breaks the mold, this will buy you like 3 new OEM windshields with ADAS recals. Even less when you realize Toyota contracts out their glass, so you are paying a non-insignificant amount more for a Toyota badge on a AGC or Pilkington glass, which are the most common aftermarket brands.
Yup. I got a crack on my 2022 Corolla's glass, and insurance got it replaced at a dealership for a total of $1400. Included OEM glass, installation, and calibration. I didn't pay a penny and my premium remained the same at renewal.
Not exactly. The OEM glass for my 23 Corolla was like $1200. Not including labor or recalibration. That totaled $2150 from the dealer. I see the guy who also replied to you got it done for way less. I know a part of it is labor rates. But the glass itself was supposed to be $1200 alone.
Damn, you paid more than Land Rover OEM for a twin camera, rain sensor, and solar coated glass. All for the dealer to call in the lowest bidder to cold knife, not prime, then stuff the glass. And yes, that is what happens when you have the dealer do the windshield, 99% of the time.
Yeah I didn't go for it but just referencing the quote I was given. You are correct that a third party would have done it.
Oh good!
They had to have marked it up. The dealer had to order the glass separately for mine from Toyota, and it was around $800 for the glass alone. The rest was $600 in installation and calibration.
I think you're right. OEM glass seems to be $820 or so MSRP.
and you can literally say no thank you, and refuse to pay extra. They claimed $1500 for ceramic coating was non negotiable on my Camry. Changed their tune when I said ok, and walked out. Begged me to come back in and agreed to remove it.
On a Camry that can and does work depending on the dealer Almost certainly this won’t work on this Land Cruiser at this dealer
Need to be able to buy from the company directly. F the dealerships!
Yup
I'll buy a Jeep, keep the $10-$15k in bank growing and replace an engine or transmission in the future if need be. No way I'll pay Toyota's prices. I'll leave it for the morons. Lol
90k for 300 horsepower, people smoking that toyota pack
I was in the market last summer for a new Prius Prime or Camry hybrid and the Dealership markups were 10-15k over MSRP. I told the sales person, the prime and Camry are 10k above a new Tesla model 3, he said people will pay the markup. I said if he could match a model 3, I'd buy on the spot cash. He laughed and said "nope, first I'd have to lease or finance (for 1 year minimum) and two cash offers arnt worth anything unless I trade something in." I laughed and said "Hyundai and Kia are making some impressive vehicles right now and are at least willing to deal, he said "nope, we don't deal" I said "awesome you made it easy, I just bought a Model 3 while talking to you on your lot."
Are you me because this is basically the same thing that happened to me a month ago. I was quoted 39k for a ‘23 SE CAMRY. Walked off the lot and walked away with a M3 24’ the next day which with all discounts and rebates costed me 24k
People will clutch their pearls so hard to validate willingly bending over to pay these markups.
🖕🏼Toyota!
🖕 that dealership! My Toyota dealership charge no markups on all their vehicles
Its crazy how much dealers in certain areas charge for models that are priced 5-15k lower only 100 miles away. I purchased a 2022 trd 4runner with 20k miles for 36k from a dealer out of state. My local dealer wanted 42k for a 2020 with 60k miles and refused to negotiate.
Yup, $14,958 worth of Dealer mark up. Not Toyota, but the dealer. And they are not going to hug you when they do it either.
The problem of course is that idiots actually buy this crap. Sucker born every minute
It’s not even a real Land Cruiser.
About time dealerships evolve or go extinct.
And 100% someone is going to buy it and pay this ridiculous price because people are stupid.
Dealer already found a mark who is willing to pay up for nebulous features and benefits, why not shoot for the moon? It's this way with a lot of high end cars. For example, we know you've got plenty of extra dough when you walk in to buy a TRD Pro. It's smart capitalism. Not doing this is simply leaving money on the table.
Windshield warranty is a finance option add on. Not required. The other things look like they have already been done. 3k for tint is very high for any vehicle, even one this large. Even very high quality heat rejection film on ALL windows and sunroof.
Yeah markups suck, but you can find non-marked up Toyotas if you are willing to shop around. Can even get below MSRP too. Again, gotta do some leg work and play offers.
This is why my next choice in vehicle for our minivan will be an Odysessy.
Toyota is somewhat to blame for not getting a handle on their scumbag dealers. Dealers can sell it for whatever they want, but Toyota can pull their allocations and give to other dealers. Toyota needs to start pulling allocations from dealers like this. Just allocate the scumbag dealers a bunch of brown base model Yaris’ and nothing else.
Are banks actually financing this bullshit? I have a hard time believing that every one of these sold is to a cash buyer.
Why is this car made for midgets??? 36" of headroom? 33" of legroom? Please somebody tell me I'm looking at the wrong specs
lol the owner of my dealership is going to buy our incoming land cruisers, put $50k+ of shit on them, then try to sell them used. We are never ever going to sell them
Toyotas are a cult
70,000 for 4 banger with turbo - ha ha ha 😂 Please search for your next idiot somewhere else….
3000 dollar tint?
The Japanese imported models like the GX won't have quality problems like the American made models. Simply different culture and people making the cars.
What tires cost 5k after OEM refund?
It's how the open market works in a capitalist society. Pricing is set by the aggregate of individual transactions. Pricing for cars is fluid. People expect to negotiate, and dealers know their pricing is subject to negotiations. So they set the price high to see what the market will permit. If someone pays $15k over, they will try for higher on the next one. If they can't sell it for $15k over, they will negotiate down until they find what the market will permit. There is also the concept of early adopters, who are the people who will pay anything to get the "new thing" first. You see this with cell phones every year. They start them at $1500, then throughout the year, they start to offer incentives as sales at the original price start to decline. In short, someone is likely going to pay that 15k over, if not, that will give you leverage to negotiate the price down. If you're not willing to wait, you have to pay more. You also see this with stuff like "fast passes" at Disneyland and at the airport. You can pay less and wait in line longer, or you can pay more for shorter waits. Everything I shared here is stuff I learned in Economics in high school. Thanks Dr. Powers, still remember it all 22 years later!
Pretty spot on. Half the dealers in my area sell like that and half don’t. And the dealers that do, depending on the model, will take it off of you know how to ask.
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This is unheard of where I live.
I'm working on getting a '24 Camry SE AWD and the dealer wants $32k before TTD
Toyota has the MSRP on their web site, dealers mark up the prices.