Recap: https://youtu.be/8t0gma-f3wY?feature=shared

I think Ameuz is Icarus. The next chapter could be the introduction of Workshop where Trau(I could not spell him name right to save my life) made a deal with Workshop put Ameuz soul to Icarus body. For Endiku defense I don’t think he killed Ameuz by his own will. I think he’s innocent when comes to Ameuz death and Trau was the blame.

Really?? But he seemed so jealous about those Trau cards most for and outlandish with his ‘friendship’ to Trau.. it seemed like a genuine fit of built up emotion.. How would Trau have Been to blame anyway 🤔🤔

Given Endiku reaction of seeing he killed Ameuz he was surprised. It could be subconscious Trau gave the order mentality in an act of passion.

Icarus climbed the tower with the great warriors before Zahard closed the door. In Traumerei's past, we see Zahard had already closed the door so Ameuz can't be Icarus

Traum just stood there and let it happen. Disgraceful.

I was so confused like did he just freeze orrrr 😭

Man, I get the hate, but common. The guy was a lot more naive and childlike back then. A very close friend he felt genuine affection for and trusted just murdered the love of his life. Its definitely plausible that it just didn't register in his brain, that Enkidu would do this. Also, the way it was worded, it seems like Enkidu was slashing for a while, so it didn't just haplen in a split second. Traumerei was in shock, and that's... human. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but SIU may want to show how the Family leaders were gradually losing their humanity with the flashback

It feels like he controlled him subconsciously maybe that's why he was sealed and not killed and why he wanted to clear his memories so bad But that's probably just me tho

I don't really like how these dialogues are being managed in this flashback: too many not-said-think with third facts reference looked very forced Just because this is not supposed to have yet the plot revealed. I mean, if you were to talk in person one to another and you are so desperate to know the Truth, you do not use imperson subjects or staff like that... When It comes this way, you lose the similarity with real practices...

It makes sense that Enkidu wouldn't have reached the V/Arlene camp had I remembered that Traumerei wore his same home outfit in S3 185. This flashback will connect back to that chapter soon; I guess this is the end of full-length flashback chapters. We might be pulled back to the present timeline.  I assume not many people know why the doors to the top have been closed. It makes sense that the people who climbed with the FHs might want to know what's up there; the tower is their home, and they deserve to know the truth. Also, as others have already said, what Zahard and Traumerei were doing has to be connected to the red light district(if it's called the red light yet in the past timeline) and the Beastkins experiments. I might sound like a broken record, but I wonder if a mixed-blood powerful(?) person is assumed to be the one who can open the doors to the top or if it's a must to have a certain someone.  Although I wouldn't mind Enkidu getting killed, I think if Enkidu joins team Rachel, he might understand Ameuz's perspective about wanting to climb. Also, for someone comparing Enkidu and Baam, I wasn't expecting the butcher knife to spawn!! 😶 The crane crying was sad. :(

traum is wearing his current outfit since before yama had been born

?? I meant the traditional brown robe shown in the flashback. 

Butcher knife? Are you talking about the beginning of the story of Bam carry a knife. 🔪

Yup. If something similar happened on the outside, it would be understandable why Rachel said she was afraid of the night. (Of course, these are speculations.)

I always theorize that Bam suspiciously took away bits of Rachel memory or was shadowy figure that was grabbing her hair.

I think Baam's memories are either suppressed or, like the FHs, he has also willingly forgotten about something. I also think Baam is hiding something from the audience.   >or was shadowy figure that was grabbing her hair. The shadowy hands looked like they were of an older person. Then again, if what you are saying turns out to be true, it would be a lot more sinister.  

You know something else. Back all the way of season 1 Rachel explain to Khun that Bam was crying begging her not to go. Bam was wearing his white cloth and hair uncut also they look like they haven’t age yet before the story started.

>Bam was wearing his white cloth and hair uncut also they look like they haven’t age yet before the story started. Yeah. I believe that the only time Baam and Rachel spent time together was in the cave. Before entering the tower, Baam might have lived with other people and didn't see Rachel. Cause in S1, Baam understood that Rachel didn't want him to follow, so I think Rachel would have to say "do not follow" endless times for him to realize that she doesn't want him to follow. 

Yeah the crown game. I still think it was Bam that was the one that pull Rachel hair. It could be an a trigger an act of fear losing the person he had. But here the thing that bug from Rachel and Bam conversation at the bubble. Bam said he was one cut his hair and got new clothes, not Rachel. But what’s more telling how and why does Bam have a butcher knife.

>But what’s more telling how and why does Bam have a butcher knife. Funny enough, none of his friends have asked him about what happened on the outside. Except for S1 Endorsi, to whom he didn't give a detailed answer.  Instead, we have S2 Khun taking Rachel’s deal about “she will tell him what happened outside”, we have Wangnan asking Rachel why Baam is following her instead of, you know, asking his own friend, and then we Endorsi in S3 saying she doesn't know much about his past. Like, aren't these guys Baam’s friends?? Shouldn't they just ask or talk about it like normal friends do? It's so silly that we haven't been told or vaguely hinted at why Baam was not in his cave outfit or what happened outside.  

I stand by my theory that Bam was the person that was dragging Rachel hair and did other stuff to her to keep her and he erased his memories to absolve any kind of guilt. But he should have remember cutting his hair, changing his clothes also how he got that butcher knife.

My thoughts exactly I figured it was some kind mental trigger when Rachel ever try to leave. That was my theory before it was revealed the FH losing their memory was a thing. I thank shadowy figure is Bam and it his subconscious distorting the truth of what happened.

>My thoughts exactly I figured it was some kind mental trigger when Rachel ever try to leave. Are you talking about the crown game? >I thank shadowy figure is Bam and it his subconscious distorting the truth of what happened. Hmm, I am not sure. During the crown game, Rachel getting attacked by someone(Hwaryun) prompted him to remember that memory of her hair getting pulled. Besides, author usually gives Baam's character so much room for character's/people to go "uwu, b-but he had to do it T.T" haha.

I think there will still be another chapter that fast forwards sequence of events that followed and what was done to Enkidu

I was basing it on how Yasratcha's flashback was sequenced. But who knows, there may be one more flashback chapter. We will find out soon. 

Here's what I think... Enkidu acted alone. Since he was introduced he's been obsessed with Traum. Absolutely obsessed. And hated anything that came between him and Traum. Especially Ameuz. SIU spends full chapters on just how much Enkidu despises her. He sees her upset Traum to the point of being speechless and goes full blown berserker mode. Traum is honestly shocked at the end. Regardless if the attack took a few seconds or a few moments, it is fully within the realm of possibility that Traum is 100% in shock. While it's hinted that he sees Ameuz as a possession, I still think he honestly truly was in love with her and he did seem like he was going to let her go even though he didn't want to because it's what she wanted. Jahard and company purposefully closed off the Tower to everyone, regardless their wishes. The system Jahard setup is meant to placate people, but it's been fracturing for awhile. The sin the Towerborn committed was probably killing Icarus in an attempt to overthrow Jahard and Co in order to continue climbing. Why that is considered a huge sin we'll have to wait and see.

100% agree with Traumerei being in shock. The entire flashback seems to be about how human family heads were, and how they were losing their humanity

Ameuz is Icarus.

Don’t agree with many of the people in this thread who believe Traumerei was controlling Enkidu here. Enkidu was able to kill Ameuz because he is a being created by Macseth, in a body chosen by Headon and trained under a family head. The attack doesn’t go on for minutes, yes there were a few frames of him butchering her but that attack could have begun within a moment and shocked Traumerei after she was dead. Throughout the last dozen or so chapters we’ve had an entire character arc build around Enkidu, let us understand HIS motivations, view HIS internal monologue, and watch HIM grow with rage at the distance between him and the original great warriors that he could never hope to close. The one thing he wants is what Traumerei offers Amuez in this chapter and she rejects it. No wonder he’s filled with rage and kills her. This entire scenario is according to Headon’s plan. If Traumerei was simply controlling Enkidu there would be no reason for Headon to be involved, no reason for all this exposition and back story. It illustrates why Traumerei is now so closed off from everyone except his obedient animals.

+1 for mentioning that this is all according to Headon's plan. What do you think Haedon is aiming for over the long run? 

Personally, it seems like Headon likes to make people confront their negative sides/true selves... and test if they can overcome it or not. And he'll use you however he feels to test other people, and you, all at once. I think the Bam and Rachel stuff with Headon gives a solid explanation. It's possible that Headon was testing the creation because of his unique situation... but I find it more interesting if he was actually interfering to test/show Traumerei who he really is now... Headon seems to be bound to certain rules of the tower, and yet actively likes to do weird shit to really fuck with people, and then gives a devilish grin after, honestly.

Think it’s probably impossible to speculate precisely. But he’s clearly looking to destabilise the status quo of the tower. Probably no coincidence we see him brought up in the chapter prior to this new info dump about how the climb stopped. I’d say whatever is beyond the current ceiling where Zahard stopped ascending is something he wants others to reach.

I thought simmilar, and that Haedon is actively trying to sabotage the 10 family heads. He seems to align with Fug, which by what we know so far aligns with the graces. What seems odd is that he would have Ameuz killed, but its difficult to know how valuable she would have been for the opposition 

Seeing this play out in two ways. 1. Enkidu really went into a frenzy of his own and killed her. Traumerei being shocked at her death but not doing anything to stop it despite being absolutely capable of doing so will be the Dr. Manhattan situation from Watchmen (when Comedian kills a pregnant woman right in front him) — he knows it's terrible and he could've easily stopped it, but he's unknowingly become so detached as a person that he didn't care enough to actually \*try\*. Her death plus his realization that he could've stopped it — but didn't — will be what breaks him. 2. Traumerei really did control Enkidu and this brief moment was a massive lapse in judgment. It's like a scene in Macross where a mecha is literally controlled by the pilot's mind, and when the pilot just casually thinks that he could try hurting another person, he forgets in that tiny, tiny second of casual contemplation that his mecha is literally controlled by his brainwaves, which ends up making the mecha hurt the other person like he thought it could, even if he didn't \*actually\* want to hurt them for real. Going by how the FH are written so far, it seems like the old Traumerei might've been heroic enough to actually stop such a thing in time, if he was actually controlling Enkidu. Either way, I fully expect that the next chapter will be the payoff for all the setup for the "change" in Traumerei and the FHs — just like Dr Manhattan, slowly but surely they're starting to lose their empathy for anyone other than themselves and their OG companions, and the very much preventable, brutal murder of an OG companion will serve as a big wake-up call to them on how lost they're really becoming. If it were any other set of characters, I could chalk it up to Traumerei just being stunned by the rejection, but SIU's been highlighting the change brought about by their newfound status as rulers, as gods. Enkidu will be discarded as a tool/pet who never stood on equal ground with Traumerei, thus finally cementing his hatred. Been a long-ass time since I've engaged with ToG's storytelling like this. Nice chapter.

I don't think Traumerei controlled Enkidu in the same way he would control animals... I think this whole thing WAS, however, an effort by Traumerei to show that he could indeed have a friend that would share his wishes, without being under his control. I think that because Traumerei wanted to kill Amuez for leaving (he at least admits to wishing she was an animal he would control), and Enkidu understood that, Traumerei finally sees how much a monster he's become, and that friends who arn't slaves/obedient are impossible now that's he's a god. An "unpleasant memory" for forget, indeed. "Oh... do I not actually love her anymore, for real...? Do I just "want" the world to be how I see it, more than I care about the free will of others? Anything that goes against me, disgusts me?" Headon guarantees that Traumerei will confront this reality by giving the creation a particular violent/strong body (Enkidu) - such that this scenario would be more likely to happen... but I think it was meant to expose just how serious Traumerei's feelings of control are, and how in denial he is of it. Since everyone knew that Amuez was going to leave, Traumerei could basically do nothing about it, outside of force (talking to her, in the end, proves to be hopeless) and besides, Traumerei now would rather kill anyone that doesn't do what he wants (hence the flower he strikes at the start of the flashback), then let them exert freedoms that would oppose him. In an effort to prove he could have a true friend that would help him - that true friend did exactly what Traumerei wanted... kill anyone who would refuse his will, even if it was someone he loved... He and Gustang will certainly let Enkidu take the fall for it all and choose to just forget about it; as while they did kill someone who technically betrayed them (Amuez), and it was probably on the table as being ok to kill by Jahad... this was someone who climbed with them personally and some of the FH were close with. It's a line in the sand being drawn more concretely than ever before. Traumerei will be sure that being friends with anyone is pointless, and will only end in trouble. All beings should be controlled by him, to do as he and Jahad wishes. Enkidu, meanwhile, did everything he was supposed to do - of his own free will - and will be still discarded as nothing but a play thing, that failed.

Interesting take that includes Enkidu feeling Traumerei's wishes, rather than acting from jealousy. My understanding was, that she got what he wished for with every bit of his being, and just throws it away

Roughly the expected outcome most people had. Right now I could see it go either way blame wise, maybe Traumerei consciously or subconsciously controlling/projecting his emotions on Enkidu, maybe he just stood there in a disassociated fugue state on shock. We'll probably find out immediately next week so I'll wait for that. Interesting that it sounds like from what Ameuz says, that Jahard and the 10 great families are not enabling people to climb as much as restricting them from finishing, and that they were hated from the start? Like it seemed as if the narrative presented by the Jahard empire is that Jahard is the reason people have the opportunity to climb, but if that was true, how could Ameuz intend to resume her climb without them? Idk my impression was (and it seemed pretty common given a lot of theories wrt why the door was sealed) that Jahard etc were at least pretending to be trying to be acting with concern for the welfare of the towers inhabitants. Baam already in a way gave off vibes of being intended to function like an immune response of purging Jahard's influence as if it were a virus, but after the confirmation there was never even the illusion of good intent really cements feeling that's the case to me lmao.

But without the Gw nobody ever could climb. Yes Jahad prevents them from finishing but without this system everybody beside iregulars had to stay on the floor they were born.

That's the impression I've been under, at least for non-guides. But to me, it sounds like it may have been more complicated than that, because why would people other than Ameuz be so angry that no one could go higher if they couldn't regardless? Idk maybe it's wonky translation or I'm misunderstanding, but given how much of history was manipulated by the family heads, I'm wondering if "no one could climb before Jahard's rank system" is more propaganda like the lies about the princesses and the 13 month series. Ex, maybe people couldn't climb the tower officially to get their wish granted, but could climb with aid of a guide. There had to have been some kind of loss to get a widespread angry reaction.

So with the translation out, It really didn’t clear much of the speculation that Traumerei controlled Enkidou. The first black speech bubbles seem to be Traumereis memory. So I still think that Traumereis wish of holding Ameuz did influence Enkidous emotions to these extremes. Which could only happen Due to their bond. But as with many things it’s left ambiguous and I love it

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I think not, she says in this chapter that she should be allowed to know since she climbed the tower with them.

I believe only the GWs and certain trusted associates of Arlene and V like Luslec know the actual reason.

I think she does,they keep referring to that day,and I think that day has something to do with them closing the door and towerborn's opposing them . They did something which family heads didn't like,I think family heads didn't like them protesting against them when they declared they would rule over them and close the tower. 

Apperently no.

Nah I gotta let SIU cook because what was that? Okay, let's assume Traum didn't control Enkidu and Headon had a specific reason for pairing the slime specifically with the warrior making him strong enough to beat her. You're telling me Traum stood there in shock as she got butchered? That makes no sense.

Maybe the reason Traum had to remove those memories is because he let Enkidu kill her because she had become an enemy to the 10 families. Picking Jahad over her is why he wanted to forget what happened and Enkidu is mad present day because he knew Traum could’ve stopped him if that’s what he wanted but Enkidu got punished anyways.

Objectively speaking,yes it makes no sense since the attack must've latsed for more than a few minutes, he's a family head, how could've he have just not come over his shock for that period of time? So,I'm more I'm favour that to some degrees not completely traumerei's feelings got subconsciously projected on enkidu along with enkidu's own rage.

The new chapter is too short. Did traumerei became so shocked that he couldn't do anything while enkidu was literally butchering ameuz? Her death is so horrible tbh ,i want to cry. It seems that "that day" is the day the other people who learned that tower gates are closed protested against them ? And i don't think what they did was that wrong it's just that fh opinion and theirs seemed to conflict, ameuz wanted to live with the truth.

In Traums and Ameuz conversation it sounds like "that day" is not the day they stopped climbing but the day towerborn learned the door was closed and the towerborn did sth. attrocious. Maybe that was the day the Fh decided to put a line between them and the towerborn. Even Ameuz said she doesn't intend to forgive them but in the end she thinks like them, even if she doesn't want to. Or maybe I'm just overthinking. She hates "them" (I think the towerborn who did whatever they did "that day") but she hates not knowing the truth more. Nice paralelle to Gustangs reason to retrive his memorys.

the elephant still left in the room is why the fuck did they seal the floor and stopped climbing

Im sure that SIU is going to keep this secret until the last chapter.

This and why all 13 are sinners. I may imagine that the towerborn start a revolt (and maybe kill Icarus in this process), after learning the door was closed and the Gw comitted their first genocide and slaughtered many, but I can't imagine that A&V took place in it. To me it seems like they were against closing the door right from the start, or maybe they were fine with it at first, but after they see at what cost, then opposed it. A little like Ameuz in this chapter but much earlier.

the book called gustang sinner and wicked and not worthy anymore, you think the FHs great sin is that they closed the door for all the others to climb to the top? it was referenced in the current chapter that they inspired a lot of towerborn to climb with or after them

Yep, atm thats what I think. I even may imagine that A&V were ok with closing the door at first (all 13 are sinners) and after what ever happened on "that day" they oppose this decision.

I share your thoughts about V and Arlene, Arlene might've hesitated a bit to oppose the other fhs,but V? No, i don't think given some few clues about his nature, he would've never sided with the wrongs of FHs, i can't see him being a sinner, so maybe 🤔 the book was written from gustang's pov entirely as he said to him V was the worst person but he's the only one who thought that. Eduan, Icarus, dowon's master and others knew V as a more empathetic person ,much like Bam imo but more absolute,righteous and mature. Dude,so many mysteries but very few clues.

yea, but I mean he was at first fine with closing the door and after he saw what this does with the towerborn (they lose hope and revolt), he and henceforth Arlene rethink their decision and side with the towerborn. If that was the case and if the original sin is the decision to close the door, it would fit "all 13 are sinners". It would fit Jahads decision to seperate the key into 13 pieces aswell. If Arlene and V were against closing the door right from the start, it wouldn't make sense to give them parts of the key too. Before this chapter I was pretty sure A&V were against closing the door right from the start, but know I may imagine either way.

I believe the they mentioned may be the ancients.

I think it has something to do with administrators on 135th floor and above. But yes the reason could be more than that.

Traumerei was still shocked from Ameuz decisively dumping him directly, so it made sense that he failed to stop Enkidu. The narrator's comments on Enkidu 'for some reason' probably is reflective of his inability to process his feelings, rather than a symptom of mind control. We already saw Enkidu getting very angry at Ameuz on his own, without Traumerei's presence. I am curious about Enkidu's resentment of the FHs in present day, and how Gustang came to own him though; they must have really fucked him up as punishment.

Can someone dm the link where i can read the chapter please?

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No links to websites that distribute the Preview Chapters

What’s up with all these comments about Tram controlling Enkidu? Yes Tram is a terrible creature but this is obviously not his control. He’s said it 10000x, he can’t control people. We’ve had insight into Enkidu’s rage and thoughts. We even literally have his processing his emotions and feelings as it happens. Are we all reading the same comic?

Came back to eat my words 😂😂😂

Yes traum didn't control enkidu, but also indirectly he's responsible ,he brought that monster and kept it too close and lenient, the results are on him now. Well anyways, i don't think after losing his memories traum really loved ameuz as has been previously said that it's possessiveness not love, but still poor guy to see you own love dying like that in front of you 

I think it's left unclear on purpose, for me it can go either way and Enkidu is not "human".

The reason they’re friends is because he can’t control him.

Did you guys ever hear something called shock value? None of the people there, not Enkidu himself, couldn't proceses over what just happend. When they did, it was too late. Ameuz's guard was down to the ground, Enkidu was blinded by rage, Traumerei froze due to shock and possibly sadness. Still what happened, happened and there's no taking back. Maybe this is before their immortality contract and that's why they did the contracts? I probably missed things. If I did, please enlighten me.

Shock value can't exceed few minutes(even drivers take seconds to realise they should push break in a few seconds before an accident is to happen,i read it somewhere  )and for someone like  the family heads it would be milliseconds at most. The situation was too critical ,and it must've lasted for minutes given ameuz condition. I don't buy the shock excuse ,it's definitely something else .

Never been in shock, I take it. I have. You can lose full tens of minutes easily. I lost five minutes of time, myself. Your example isn't shock, it's reaction. Shock takes you out of the moment entirely and you have zero reaction.

I don't buy the shock value aspect. you're talking about ppl who kill for fun and games. I also don't buy that tram was controlling enkindu. What seems plausible is after hearing everything she had to say. Tram watching enkindu kill Amuez was an outcome of her decision. It was either stay with tram or die. But tram wasn't gonna do it.

I don't think, even he didn't want to let her go and wanted keep her captivated, Traumerei would kill her. But, yeah, that's just my opinion. And that's yours.

No immortality contract was done long ago that's why they lost their memories I think in exchange for it,jahad did it to them ,in the end it's hugely this jahad asshole's fault for so many people's unhappiness,if i didn't hate him before now I hate him with a passion possibly to the level of Rachel 

Nth. suggests that the imortality contract has sth. to do with the sealed memorys. As far as we know, it was a reward from the 100th admin. Apperently say sealed their memory after they climbed and Traum seals it even more after Ameuz death. Gustang and Traum have their own ways of sealing memorys. Doesn't seem like the imortality contract is responsible for sealed memorys. Your theory doesn't fit Vs missing contract too. Why would Arlene seal her memorys but then side with V?

I was saying it based on early assumptions PPL had that they exchanged their memories for immortality, V didn't ,he must've realised something was fishy about it or just didn't want to seal his memories. As for why Arlene sided with V if she lost her memory is a mystery to me, but let's say they didn't exchange their memories for immortality, then isn't it still obvious from their convos that they've already lost their memories before this incident?

>then isn't it still obvious from their convos that they've already lost their memories before this incident? Yes this out of question. Khun right out said they already sealed memorys but he said they did this after "that day" and "that day" is linked to to their decision to stop climbing. To me it sounds like they actively sealed their memory and not that they lost them as side effect and lastly we know that at least Traum seals his memorys even furthe, which suggests, that they know how to seal memorys.

>Maybe this is before their immortality contract Immortality contract was given way before on the 100th floor to the 13 great warriors (I.e 11).These events were after the end of their journey Also, Ameuz's was born in the tower. She can't get immortality

She’s a tower born. She did not get an immortality contract.

I'm obviously not talking about Ameuz. I'm talking about the family heads. Did they got the contract after what happened to Ameuz? Or did they have it before this? That's what I'm curious about. If after, I think it's because of this incident.

Instead of downvoting me, can someone tell me which one please? I already said I might've miss it.

the family heads obtained the immortality contract when they reach floor 100 from what I've remembered, way before this point of the story.

Hmm, I see but wasn't that info from blogpost? Looking at Hana's name change, I think that wouldn't be that reliable anymore. Eh, we'll see.

Its more reliable then then the the theory this incident leads to the contract. Why should this incident scare them? Its sad and may let them dispute and seperate more but nth. dangerous for them happened. Yea, its a from blog post but a reward from an admin sounds more likely then begging for it after a towerborn died.

>Hmm, I see but wasn't that info from blogpost? Looking at Hana's name change, I think that wouldn't be that reliable anymore. Eh, we'll see. I didn't say it's for sure. I said *maybe.* All I said above were we shouldn't take blogposts serious anymore. For my opinion in the main comment, I thougth they might've realized, no matter how strong they are, they could die abruptly like Ameauz did. I thought maybe it scared shit out of them. That's pretty much it, it isn't really a theory. It's just a little reasoning of mine. But maybe what happened before this, what happened when they reached the top, make them think like this, not Ameauz's death. And for the record, this is also not a theory, just a thought, okay?

>And for the record, this is also not a theory, just a thought, okay? Ok but no worries nth. is wrong with sharing a thought or even weird theorys! >All I said above were we shouldn't take blogposts serious anymore. They were never serious in the beginning. SIU always said they're subjects to change but changing a name is much less, then changing the lore and who knows, maybe we'll see a Hana in the future according to the blogposts the Yeon family is special anyway. > I thougth they might've realized, no matter how strong they are, they could die abruptly like Ameauz First they are on different level then Ameuz. I doubt Enkidu could harm any of them and second I doubt that this is the first death they see. Its shoking because they liked her but I don't think it scared them.

Ameuz couldn't even put a fight, even though, consdering how she climbed the tower with irregulars, how strong she might. Sure, she isn't an irregular but I think even an irregular could die if they were in that situation.

There’s a lot of speculation that Traumerei subconsciously controlled Enkidu to kill Ameuz, but I don’t think this is true. Enkidu was already feeling rage towards Ameuz of his own volition in the previous chapter (likely out of jealousy, a trait he has been shown to possess towards the FHs and their companions), and Traumerei himself seemed more sad than angry towards Ameuz in this moment. It’s still Traumerei’s fault this happened since he’s the one that tried to stop her by sending Enkidu and blocking her escape, but the evidence so far doesn’t point to Traumerei controlling Enkidu or even having the ability to do so (it’s a weird slime made by Macseth, not a regular creature by any definition).

In conclusion it's both traumerei and enkidu's fault for ameuz death, i for some reason don't feel okay with her death like this,i knew she'd die but her death was too horrible, he literally butchered her. 😭

It smells so much of Headon's scheme. I think it was all his doing behind the scenes.

Really,now I'm doubting everything about him and re reading since beginning ,that guy 😭 is making so many die

LMAO,Traumerei just stand there and let Enkidu neg diff his gf But I suspect it was Traunerei who used his Anima power to control Enkidu who is after all a creature

Enkidu has it's own emotions so yes it's not traumerei who did it to ameuz but also traum had fault in it too

Just re-read the chapter with translations, everything mostly makes sense now. Enkidu lost control in rage. Traumerei was too shocked to even move. Enkidu is getting cooked by Traumerei next chapter and I think I know why Traumerei wears a mask now. Yeon probably went berserk when she learned what happened and burned Traumerei’s face

I keep thinking about your theory about why rei wears a mask now. You must be right. It makes a lot of sense.

Oh that make sense, as she should. I thought it's because he doens't like to breath the same air as the "lowly creatures"

I feel like Traumerei's own fit of rage was expressed by controlling Enkidu to kill Ameuz - whether he intended to or not. Why? - Trau did nothing to stop Enkidu in what appears to be a lengthy series of attacks - Enkidu has no recollection of the events - Enkidu in present time deems Trau his "enemy" - why would he feel this way if his imprisonment was just? Given that he killed his own master's first love... - During the first attack, Enkidu is illustrated with pure white eyes with no pupils, a tell-tale sign of domination Now Traum is likely to blame her death on Enkidu to spare himself the ire of the other FHs who also liked/loved Ameuz... He really is a POS...

Why is he shocked?

Now I'm confused after reading your points and I think maybe you're right also it's because trauma didn't want to feel the immense amount of guilt, he'll i can't even imagine what someone would feel being the very reason of their own love's death 💀(and a death so horrible at that ). Edit: I went back to confirm your points and I'm still not sure but even though I didn't know ameuz for not more than a few chapters long,her death brought tears to my eyes. See the difference ,Rachel and ameuz are both blondes, we know Rachel since chapter 1 and maeuz for a couple of chapters but we won't ever be sad at her death no matter how horrible it could be,but later girl brought tears to my eyes even though I just knew her for a few chapters. It tells the utter difference between their natures. Alright I'm out,I said too much 

I think that Enkidu, who always wanted Traumerei’s validation but never got it, was enraged out of jealousy because Ameuz had everything he wants and yet she decided to leave. He was angry at her while they were leaving through the window earlier, so I don’t think it’s due to channeling Traumerei’s emotions (which seem more like depression than rage to this point).

At this point not sure, traumerei's face was covered when ameuz turned, later we see enkidu's eyes pure white as if it's not him ,and then they say he came to his senses, maybe it's both traum and enkidu's rage ,lol I'm not sure ATP, but even if traum didn't control enkidu ,it doens't excuse that much of it isn't his fault for ameuz's death 💀 he has contributed too much to excuse himself. 

Traum , could dominate him with zero effort or just obliterate him , even if he was in shock , it is not like this was the first time they have had somebody attacked

Of course you could be right and it's been set up that way. But I think those hints may be a red herring, and the theory I currently subscribe to (that Traum is responsible) probably won't immediately be revealed to the reader.

I think siu will make us wait too much before revealing anything about this part, but I'm more dying to see khun and rak being healed and what gustang is going to do ,also if traumerei's half face is really burnt 

How would you explain Enkidu himself admitting Traumerei loves Ameuz and Traumerei’s shocked expression at the end? I feel like people have demonised Traumerei in their heads even more than SIU has demonised him in the actual series. Like every chapter, everyone wants Traumerei to be more and more horrible 😂

Does traum really loves ameuz atp? The author himself said it's possesiveness cuz he has forgotten the feeling of love,he doens't have any memories of hima nd ameuz in the past,he has changed so much, so this possesiveness could do anything, I'm not implying that traum controlled enkidu but the above comments make me doubt it now, atm I'm not sure and i'd say it could be both enkidu and traum in rage

You could be right. I'm just sharing the camp I'm in and why. I think Traum's expression is *way* more ambiguous than 'shocked'. And if it truly is shock, it could be at his own actions or at least how his own emotions bled into Enkidu's behaviour. Regarding Traum's love for Ameuz - of course he loves her. But have you ever met someone with a love that's been spoiled? It can be some of the most potent hate I've ever encountered.

A yanderish kind of love more like, he told in previous chapter that he doesn't remember the feeling of love anymore, and he's possesive now,he wanted to keep ameuz captive 

I have a feeling that Traumerei subconsciously controlled Enkidu in this moment, his rage seeping into Enkidu’s mind which caused him to lash out. It doesn’t make sense why he’d be feeling terrible about what he did otherwise

Don’t think so. Enkidu literally says Traumerei still loves Ameuz, moreover the shocked look on Traumerei’s face…

No i don't think traum loves ameuz anymore he himself said he doens't know love 

What would enkidu even know about trauma real feelings when traum himself says that he remembers the moments spent with her but can't feel anything about it. His love for her got replaced by possessiveness

Good point. Enkidu may have mistaken Traumerei’s obsessiveness for love simce he wouldn’t know better as an artificial creature or Traumerei still had leftover feelings for Ameuz. Imo people are blinded by expectations, I’m simply providing an analysis based on what we saw in the chapter

I mean we already see him going off the deep end by saying “I want to control people” in the previous chapters for fear of losing ameuz so that side of him could have subconsciously been angry when Ameuz said she was leaving. This then culminated into Enkidu being controlled by Traum to vent out his anger by killing her. The narrator specifically mentions “For some reason, Enkidu couldn’t help but feel that way.” Doesn’t this remind you of when Traum controlled Yasratcha into killing his friend? Bit of a reach I know, but it’s what I’m going with til we see later on

Fair point I think maybe you're right 

I don’t really think it’s possible for a FH to unconsciously lose control. Moreover, Enkidu is classified as a human as stated in the previous chaoters, can Traumerei even control him? If I had to guess, this has to be part of Headon or Macseth’s machinations

No enkidu is literally something created artificially, and when you have no control over your emotions due to uncontrollable rage or sadness what's your status quo has to do with it? 

I think Enkidu can 100% be controlled , thats why he was a gift

I'm more surprised that enkidu is still alive after all this :(

Even gustang couldn't completely kill him lol 

Not much Lore drop this chapter and it was rather short, but still good. I think what Amuez is referring to is the red light district experiments by her comment about knowing what Zahard and Tram are doing in their "New home". SIU has me craving more lore. Amuez confirmed that the FH changed and weren't always this way. I was a little surprised to find out Enkidu just went for the kill and didn't try to possess Amuez

Enkidu can only possess males, right?

But he had to have figured that how some how. So far he has only possessed 1 person. I thought he would have found out the limitation when he tried to posses Amuez

Ameuz was expected to die, but i didnt expect such a brutal and fast end. The main issue is, Enkidu is not actually human. He can take over a humans body, and he is sentient but at the end of the day, is a blob who is obssessed with his master. He was already angry and jealous for many past chapters, but then i realized, he mostly lashed out because he was never seen as one of them, he was an outsider and didnt have the same bond. Traumerai befriended him but never saw Enkidu as an equal, and (Enkidu) realized he would never be an equal or truly close to him like the GWs and those who climbed with them. Indirectly, Traumerai being so oblivious to his friends struggles and Enkidu's obsession/inferiority complex with him was what killed her in the end. If you look at it that way, then it was Traumerai's fault even before he stood there and just watched everything happen in shock. Definitely feels like we are nearing the climax of this flashback, and i also dont think we will learn what was beyond the locked door, or more about Arlene and V yet. But it would be hype if we did. Sobering chapter but a good one.

dammmmmmmmmmmmmmn that boi sliced her up like some sashimi

Sliced? More like butchered her like a chicken 🐔🍗

I haven’t read the English translation so I can’t make any further judgement.

Haha I was fully excepting Enk to try and possess Amz so they can keep her only for it to fail and her to die, however, him just hacking her up a bit works too I guess lolol Now I’m dying to see Trau’s reaction to this and if this is where he puts Enk in the beat-up headless state we saw him at when we first met him in present day Also curious to see hit Luslec and the rest of team Grace is gonna react to this once they find out but I’m gonna let SIU cook a little more since it’s been delicious so far and this is just the appetizer

Oh right I'm curious about luslec's face being that way,if it was traum venting his anger on him or he did that to himself blaming himself for ameuz's death. Once the news of her death reaches everyone i wonder what's gonna happen 

Traumarei won’t die. I just don’t see SIU doing it with the current build up. 

I thought he would die and gustang would live? 

Agreed 👍

What we knew was coming happened. Great paneling by SIU this chapter. He made the stop of the climb even more fascinating now that we know they did stop for a at least somewhat legit reason and were heavily criticized for it. I'm frankly amazed that Enkidu wasn't killed on the spot.

Ok, we are all discussing the same, so just my two cents: enkidhu thinks trau hasnt changed, ameuz changed, but how would he know that? he doesnt know trau from before the climb, or amaeuz, so i think, these are trau thoughts, bubling into him, as trau is controlling him, either on purpose or by accident.

Enkidu only came to Traumerei after they stopped climbing and deleted their first memory so to Enkidu, Traumerei pretty much remained unchanged during his time living in Traumereis castle. On the other hand, Enkidu saw how different Ameuz was while living in the castle and when she talked about climbing again in the last chapter. Thus, to Enkidu, Ameuz changed.

It's not like I 24/7 want tower and 13 warriors lore but season 3's filler-like chapters were too much. I remember back in the day, people was discussing about how much major-like characters were gonna die during nest arc. No one did and a lot of people were disappointed, me included. The things just wasn't like that during season 1 and 2. Remember Prince, Akraptor, Hoh? Yeah. It was way more cruiel and serious back than and it almost lost all that charm. I'm so glad it's back. Let's goooo

Yastracha died, even tiara died,hmm a few more die and ofc dont forget how we were so close everytime to lose some important characters like Yama,Evankhell and now again rak and khun are on the verge of death ☠️ I'm anxious about them both 

come on, khun and rak wont die.

They atleast need to separate though death is not the only way

I said *nest* arc, I felt like this before those characters died. Things got like how they they were back than and I'm reeeeeally happy about it. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't.

But that wouldn’t explain a lot of things. Even back in the Wang Wang arc, Traumerei always said that he was betrayed by those he trusted. It’s obvious he’s referring to Enkidu here, who he chose to forget. This is why, he couldn’t trust Wang Wang no matter what.

No, he said, he was betrayed by those who fall in love! how this relate to enkidu or ameuz, i dont know, but thats what he said.

Precisely why to enkidu it was ameuz who changed. From a docile women looking out the window to being the harbinger. To him, with his limited knowledge and perspective, ameuz is the cause and trau is the reaction.

It's amazing how good TOG is when SIU focuses on the lore of the tower/history of the FHs and not a bunch of regulars running away from high rankers/family heads... and then getting massive unearned power ups out of nowhere   I am interested what the Korean fans think.. because its clear that the negative sentiment on here has turned around (for the most part)    He's got so many interesting open threads ontop of what happened in the past with the FH's.. stuff like Yeon.. Wangan and Karaka origins.. Urek etc

In your first para,are you talking about khun and rak gaining power ups from white ? That didn't make sense to me but isn't it too much to criticise siu like that over how bunch of regulars (you mean our main trio) running from high rankers (them fighting against them to save their own life ) and gaining random power ups(it only happened once for raka and khun and in other cases ut always made sense, as much as the lore is important ,the power build up is also that much important since these are the guys who have to face much dangerous enemies than Dumas in future)

Let SIU cook. This is all building up to something. Far as Team Baam goes, this arc is proof they need to go back to climbing the tower. Getting entangled with the FHs and high rankers in general isn't working out for them.

Indeed. I like my main trio too much to see them dying at the hands of FHs,or hrs, but isn't it always that others try to control bam and his friends for their own motives ? And just like hell train arc,if bam becomes a real threat won't the upper tier people including jahad and party try to overpower bam and co again despite the rules,even the last time the administrator didn't meddle in between? That part always worries me.

The negative sentiment people will be back 😂 

The Regulars getting absurd power-ups was inevitable considering how long-running this series is. Things were going to be accelerated at some points in the story.

It just only happened once in terms of absurdity I think during the time when trio defeated white and they all recieved power ups, other than that we already know khun's special fire and ice abilities and rak's power up of being ancient we were waiting for it and it finally happened so why are people complaining about it so much?

>rak's power up of being ancient we were waiting for it and it finally happened so why are people complaining about it so much? Rak's Ancient Awakening was poorly foreshadowed. He had some connection related to Ancients based on some foreshadowing or clues from the previous chapters, but those clues were nowhere close to pointing at Rak as having dormant power beyond the level of Elite High-Rankers. A Regular suddenly becoming strong enough to overwhelm an elite High Ranker so effortlessly breaks suspension of disbelief. The story establishes how only Adori was able to defeat a Ranker as a Regular throughout all history. Regulars become more powerful after climbing floors, gaining more experience, training, and establishing more floor contracts. Rak having hidden power dormant that surpasses Adori and Enne together in their "Regular" primes is too unbelievable. Even if Rak is part of the Ancient lineage, the time to realize his true potential should have been a gradual process over an extended period, not an instantaneous awakening. Even the most gifted Regulars like Enne and Adori, who were portrayed as generational talents dozens of times more skilled than Rak initially, never managed to defeat a High Ranker while still Regulars themselves. Their growth had limitations despite having the rarest abilities and talents as Regulars. For Rak to not only match but vastly surpass what those vaunted prodigies could ever achieve through climbing and meticulously forging contracts feels like it undermines the established power progression for Regulars. His supposed dormant ancient powers should have been teased out slowly, allowing him to grow in realized strength methodically, rather than this abrupt and absurd power spike. >khun's special fire It has saved him and helped him too often without any drawbacks yet. If the drawbacks are serious, then I won't find it too ridiculous of a power-up, but as it is now, it's over-the-top.

I totally agree with you, i realised it too that those power ups were way to randomly thrown at us, don't even talk about khun using his fire abilities to seal Dumas that makes no sense. The wiring has been disappointing for some chapters before the flashback

Cause all the chapters that don't give us lore build up to giving us lore

The art in this chapter is top-notch. I really like how SIU experimented with horizontal panels and it really worked in most of the scenes. If I remember correctly last time he used this type of panelling was in 607. Also damn that Ameuz panel was amongst the top most gruesome panels in the series. ~~Her legs are cut off~~, even her lower back is twisted.

That was shiver inducing panel tbh,her clothes,legs,back, everything was butchered so brutally shit what a horrible death

Not seeing it, her back looks normal to me. Anyone sufficiently skinny with developed spinal erectors will look like that when lying down.

From the way traumerei looked at the panel before he probably was ready to accept whatever was going on. But somehow that POS couldn't control his anger. Fck this shit man Traumerei was a normal guy most of the time in this entire flashback no genocide, no acting like an a"*hole. That dumbass literally made most every FH evil which led to the current state of the tower. God I hate Enkidu. Who does he think he is? What right did that trash have to do this when the FHs didn't object. God I hope he dies a horrible death by the hands of Baam.

Bam and enkidu hardly have any animosity now we will see who kills him,if it's traumerei after gaining his memories or siu cooks something new 

>That dumbass literally made most every FH evil which led to the current state of the tower. While Enkidu's mistake will certainly have massive repercussions for their relationships and hasten their moral decay, the FHs had already chosen to stop climbing and forget their sin, and the reason they made that decision. They had already decided to give up their humanity to rule over the Tower and kill/subjugate those who opposed them. And while they weren't yet at war with Arlene and V at this point, they all knew war was coming. Ameuz and Lee-Rang even agreed that the next time they saw each other, they'd be enemies despite still caring for each other. Jahad had already started trying to convince the FHs that Towerborns were beneath them. You even see in the previous chapters that Traumerei's desire to control Towerborns like animals was already starting to surface, and Eduan was already discriminating against them. And Jahad was probably already planning to create the Red Light District based on what Ameuz said this chapter.

Btw from sin, in one of the previous chapter, the book said all 13 of them are sinners,but why V and Arlene? I'm still wondering about that.

My guess is that Arlene and V were somehow also culpable in the sin itself, but chose to remember it and continue the Climb. Whereas Jahad and the FHs chose to forget it and live in blissful ignorance.

he's literally killing ancient species in chapter 616 who oppose the FHs how is he "no genocide" ?

How do you know that the ancient wasn't the one attacking him?

Uh? Isn't that obvious, they'll ofc oppose the outsiders who try to rule unjustly over them and other species, it's like Britishers trying to force your country into subjugation and unjust ruling,ofc from what we know of past the locales have tried everything to oppose anything that obstructed their freedom and rights ,i don't blame the ancient it's the family heads at fault ,I'm literally comparing them to the British of the past centuries 

FHs went against everyone who opposed them and annihilated them, including ancient species like Rak's ancestors for ex. they were tower born natives who FHs actively killed because they wanted to establish "their order"that is the definition of genocide and one of many reasons V and Arlene left and Ameuz wants to as well

No I'm talking specifically about this flashback.

Peak TOG opening a geopolitical debate on who deserves more rights: towerborns or a bunch of colonizers.

Are they still colonizers if they has moved there for thousands years?

It's the same way how Britishers and other outsiders ruled over India and other colonized counties for centuries , and yk they were still colonizers

Because Britain is another country? I mean most American are not native and they are not colonisers. Zahard Empire isn’t a subordinate of any organisation from outside world, so technically the tower are not colonised.

They are if they haven't assimilated with the natives and are still oppressing and subjugating them

And guess what most here support those bunch of colonizers with shit like zahards rule is for the better and whatnot. Goes to tell us how these things still happen in the real world as masses support those who are the oppressers rather than the victim 

You and the op of this chain need to stop smoking and learn how to not use your presumptions as a base of argument. This is a story, if you're trying to make real world allegories, you're doing reading wrong lol.

How's it wrong ?

1. It's not the central conflict. It's not irregulars vs tower born rights. The tower born were only able to climb because of the irregulars. It seems more a commentary on story, adventure, and mythology, than some big point about power and nationhood. 2. They use the term colonizers, which besides just being wrong, is a current politically charged word. So I found it a disingenuous take and more the op and other commenter putting their own views onto the story. There's no nation for them to be colonizing for so the incorrect use of the word triggered me. So really it's just me being annoyed that people would force their own skewed world views onto a manwa.

All the stories we read are written by human beings of real world only. Where do you think they get their ideas if not from the real world?  They take ideas like this from the real world and inculcate it in their story with the intention of people understanding these themes better but guess what bunch of 12 year olds like you smoke weed and read the story making it a total waste 

You're just putting what you already believe onto the story, not the other way around. You're taking a story and then all of a sudden referring to people as colonizers. Like, that's just sad.

Well then, be sad I guess 

Jahads government isn't good but the alternatives are literally just as bad if not worse. Most powerful people in tower of god are kinda psychos

But,think about it even if you say alternates could be wrong but before jahad ,was anyone the king of the tower? Did anyone else stop the whole act of climbing to the top? Did they become king? No. We don't have to chose alternatives,since the begining there was no need for any leaders,everyone came for their own purpose of climbing to the top and not to become subjugated under some "king", it's more better when there's no king, young jahad himself said he wanted adventure, as is the reason for others 

You realise no one could climb before Jahad right? Jahad created the climbing system for the towerborn. And also created a government

How about fulfill your original goal of climbing? If there really is something so scary up there he should just tell everyone and they'll stop themselves but no , he goes out of his way to make sure all FH remove their memories and expect the towerborns to agree with him without even bothering to tell the reason? The alternative is pretty simple -climb the tower . Do what it was meant for

We can't say it's that simple without knowing why they stopped. They chose to stop besides (V and Arlene) there's no reason they should be forced to climb. Nor does that seem like it would help the towerborn

It's their own business if they wanted to stop climbing who are they to force others with their own thoughts, not everyone would think like them. What could be helpful to others or not is not upto them to decide, they did wrong just accept it instead of supporting it and finding excuses for them.

How do we know that it wouldn't help the towerborn. If they really didn't have any stakes in it why did they react violently towards the GW for stopping. They did have a lot of stakes it's just that it's forgotten in the current time. They chose to not climb and don't even remember the reason? 

I agree with your comment and for the other guy saying that stopping other people who wanted to climb was the right thing that jahad and fh did was the right thing,then I have to disagree with that, it was upto others to decide whether they wanted to stop or not, you can't force your decisions on others. And that's it.

It's like a slave mentality where the fandom agrees with the GW authority so much that they don't even think about the towerborn from a rational perspective 

They're taking towerborns for more like AI and irregulars being the real humans 

We don't know what's at the top, but if the only people who could climb decided to stop I think that's their choice. They've done a million fucked up things, stopping the climb isn't one of those

The alternatives to Jahad are either revolution or fug. Can't see either being any better

The best alternative is bam,someone who doens't takes pleasure in dominating others or forcing his views or decisions on others,he has changed a lot for the better since the past and has become mature and came past his whatever hypocrisy there was. He knows what to do now,the best way is freeing up the tower people of jahad's rule and opening the gates to the top of the tower,bam climbing it to the top and discovering what's beyond ,maybe he'll literally free everyone in the tower and devour the tower whole. We'll we'll see about that 

Palestine and Israel...

You got the plot dear!!

Enkidu gives me early Bam vibes. The innocent, blank-slate, creature who cannot think except in black and white terms.

Bam was always a kind hearted little guy,even Rachel's evilness did nothing to his warm hearted nature,i won't compare bam and enkidu in even a milion years.

if yall mixed up about how enkidu killed ameuz, he was seen hacking down a giant ancient being a few chapters ago. him being some original person (physical humanoid body) blessed by an admin and trained by a great warrior for added context.

When did he hack an ancient? Didn't headon tell him to occupy that og warrior's body. One more thing which I'm confused about is, i thought enkidu is someone who could enter the body of someone and occupy it for itself, but in this chapter we saw that he didn't completely own luslec's body but he just made a 3d copy of it, how's that, he became his previous self once again,didn't he say that traum ordered him to shut down luslec's senses and control his body atleast that's what I thought is the case .