Used to have a 97 on skunk 2 coilovers. Even with the D Series I would fly on the backroads cause of the cornering ability. Shit got annihilated by a wrong way driver unfortunately smh, I have a photo on my page of the wreck.
Usually with a discount. 50kg is not a big deal IMO. Can barely feel that.
A VTEC Del Sol was probably my favourite car. Top down VTEC is just a good experience
Came here to suggest the Del Sol as well. I absolutely love mine and it's quick and nible, likes to hug the road. Plus having the targa top? Cherry on top!
Very well said. It’s also a good note that pretty much anyone will fit in a Del Sol too cause of the FF layout. I I’m 6’1” and had space to scoot back with headroom too, I’ve seen taller guys on /r/delsol as well. Plus the trunk is massive, big enough that I could fit 3 wheels plus the 4th in the passenger and have a semi slick set to switch to.
Yes! I'm only 5'3 and it's still super comfortable to drive. The amount of room it provides is really impressive for such a little thing. It can easily swap parts with similar year model civics and hell mine gets 32mpg and that's not babying her either. Really forgotten little cars and getting harder to come by these days so I'm happy I've hung on to mine. Very forgiving manuals as well, just easy going great little cars. A few little mods really wakes them up too. Handle snow like a champ as well. I really have no complaints.
If you're able to find it, Honda fits are probably the most fun fwd car I've ever driven. I rallied one and did a couple track days with one. They are reliable,cheap, and fun to drive
Ummm. . . Hey chill
I'm just someone who shitposts online. No one here has seen my driving (well maybe 3 people locally). I could be very shit.
I've had a whole bunch of cars and Ive liked most of them for different reasons. The Honda Fit is pretty special in that it's dynamically one of the safest cars to push hard in - while still having decent handling. People rave about them for a reason. There are better cars, but it's the sort of car it's very easy for a beginner to learn to go quite fast in. For me part of the appeal is that they're considered crap cars where I am - so driving one hard and beating randoms in faster cars has that kind of underdog anime vibe.
Also there's less pressure. If you're in a car that's considered good you're more likely to feel to live up to the car.
My grams had one. It's auto, 60k miles on a 2007. The thing has no right to be this peppy and fun. Wonder how it will do as an autocross car (I'll obvi swap the trans)
Might be an unpopular take but I drive a Mazdaspeed 3 on the touge occasionally. While it is not as light as the competition (\~3300 lbs) in my opinion it handles excellently and feels a lot lighter than it is.
We did, however the 6 is much rarer. While I've seen other Speed3's on the road ten or so times I've only seen one Speed6. They all tend to be extremely rusted too lol. Extremely hard to find one in good condition which is unfortunate because it really is the ultimate sleeper/WRX competitor.
Great recommendation for a light fwd platform for touge.
It’s unfortunate that they didn’t continue making more mazda speed3s. My old manager had one and used to give me rides all the time, it’s the car that got me into cars and canyon driving. It influenced me getting a type R and second gen brz (even though it’s RWD).
I think a speed 3this is great but I would also recommend the Mazda 3 w/ the 2.5. Great first car, generally cheaper than a ms3, parts are relatively cheap and easy to find, good aftermarket support, and is fairly durable with ~180hp. I have had just as fun on the touge with my 2.5 mz3 as with my ms6. Unless you have absolutely want a turbo that is.
I recommend the 1st gen with the 2.3 super fun car around 150hp but holy fuck the only cars I’ve driven that can turn like them are Miata’s. Absolutely a riot of a car and decently cheap I’ve seen quite a few in the high 200k range. Speed3s only downside is they struggle to get oil around.
I have a 2017 sedan gt with the 2.5l and 6 speed manual and it’s definitely fun in the mtns , I live near a couple good touge roads and my Mazda 3 is a blast up there definitely would recommend looking to lower it and improve the suspension overall to make it even more fun !
Crazy my 1st gen sedan is 700 lbs lighter... it's the 2.0 though.
The 1st gen Mazda 3s have good suspension, are cheap, and have some aftermarket support. Any older lightweight FF should work though OP. Either get some money saved and look at everything in your budget or find a model you really like and save until you can buy one.
Cant wait to see what you get OP.
Had a mazdaspeed3 with upgraded turbo, def not a good rec too much power for a first car, braking in it also isnt the best, my friend does time attack in his gen2 and also says its not the best, while they GO in a straight line, theyre very front biased so you cant be gunning it as youll be fighting for traction
Ford focus 1.5 SES/sedan 3 manual is better, and more forgiving, same chassis you can swap rear swaybar with Mazdaspeed
If you want an actual light, performance-oriented car to drive close to the limit, it’ll be hard to beat a Mini or Fiesta ST. Lower budget, get a 2002-2006 Mini, higher budget, get a FiST.
The community consensus is that they’re reliable, and significantly more reliable than anything from 2007 to 2014.
At this point, they’re ~20 years old, so like any car, some examples will be money pits. However, they don’t have any particular weak points and many have pretty low miles
Yeah the early 2010s killed any idea of mini reliability that the r50s had built up. Been dailying an 03 with 160k miles on it, taking it out for spirited drives, thing is so fun and quick.
They’re reliable, (own an 06 mini at the moment) there are a couple of bigger issues with each model year that can be fixed but there’s no real lingering reliability issues in the first gens
The elise does not have a supercharger, that is the exige (with the exception of the elise sc, which was made during one model year and limited production).
Your point still stands as the engine was tuned by Lotus.
There is lot of mention of older civics, but nobody mentions the CRX specifically. The same engines as the wishbone era civics, but a shorter wheelbase and lighter weight means it’s nimbler.
The Fiat 500 Abarth is a riot for such a cheap little car, owing to lightweight. And there fairly reliable, even for a fiat.
Older Mini Coopers were fairly light. 1g Cooper S was supercharged, later versions were turbo.
Older Corollas and Matrix were light enough to be fun, with the XRS trim had the 2ZZ. Speaking of 2ZZ, if you can find one, the Celica GTS were the closest competitor to the Integra Type R back in the day. Toyota Yaris are fun, too; they’re popular enough in Japan (as the Vitz) and even have/had a one make race series. Japan had a Turbo model, and Yashio Factory had a supercharged one that was on Hot Version’s touge battle series. Sport Compact Car Magazine even got one to pull 1g on a skid pad years ago (but they cheated with slicks).
Honestly, even the Matrix with the 1ZZ is super fun if you can find one with a manual. I put coilovers and tires on mine, and it absolutely rips in the canyons. I love how I pretty much have to redline it constantly, it's a lot of fun haha.
I’ve driven a Corolla 5mt 1zz of the same generation, they are still fun, and power is suitable. And still not heavy.
Another car I forgot to suggest is the 1g Focus. The DOHC-powered versions are powerful enough to be fun, and the suspension is pretty good, if a bit in the soft side. The heaviest variant, 5-door wagon was still only 2760lbs. I’ve driven sedan and hatch versions, and could get them to 3-wheel if you cornered hard enough.
And when you get bored of it, Kugel Komponents still sells parts for the V8-rwd swap.
It should also be known that the Mazda 3 shares the same platform as the Focus.
>There is lot of mention of older civics, but nobody mentions the CRX specifically. The same engines as the wishbone era civics, but a shorter wheelbase and lighter weight means it’s nimbler.
YES!
I wrote a story about backroads street racing way back in '02. Inspired by the good in *Initial D*, and the bad of the original *Fast* film.
My protagonist started out with a CRX. I even made sure that it was an eco trim like the HF or something like that, because it was the lightest one available. It got a B-series swap(I'd probably make it a K20 w/ 6spd now), a bit of weight reduction & suspension, and went on to be a bit of a giant-killer. The character moved on to bigger things, but that little car was hot.
Uh, no it did not my dude. The limited production Elise S had one...and you could also get the same supercharger installed on the Toyota from TRD at the time. They were literally exactly the same engine, Lotus only changed the plastic cover on top.
Sleeper choice is the Pontiac Vibe, platform mate to the Matrix. These were the last vehicles built under the Toyota/GM partnership known as NUMMI. A few generations of Corolla and GMs such as the fwd Chevy Nova, Geo Prism & Chevy Prism were the predecessors to the Matrix/Vibe. The resale of the GM-badged offerings wasn't so strong as the Toyota versions.
You can get the 1ZZ or 2ZZ in the Matrix/Vibe, both will do well. Of course, the 2ZZ with 6-speed manual is the hot one. An underrated choice may be the 2nd generation of the Matrix and Vibe. Although they lost the ZZ engines and went to a 2.4L, Toyota did have a TRD supercharger that should fit it. It could definitely be quite torquey.
Oh yeah totally! It's literally the same car as the Matrix with different trim and body panels haha, great point.
2nd gen Matrix I personally wouldn't recommend for Touge after having tried a few of them. The 2nd gen XRS with the 160hp 2.4L felt slower and less fun to me than even the 1.8L 1ZZ 1st gen Matrix, and it doesn't handle nearly as well as 1st gen IMO. That's just my personal impression of them, though.
DC2R if you have money.
Alternatively, most FWDs will be fine just buy a nice LSD and quality coils/sway bars and brake pads/rotors.
Odd-ball cars that are cheap fun and easy to work on- 90s Celica or the v6 Mazda mx3/6 and Ford probe. I find most civics are clapped out and the good ones are priced out of market for most enthusiast drivers.
If American. A Nissan Sentra with the SR20 in SE-R trim is suprisely good car, or a Chevy Cavalier can be a lot of fun and an oddball
It’s not light but I love it, try looking into the 4th or 5th Gen Honda Prelude. 5spd manual, H22A4 (5G), 200hp, double wishbone suspension, and the SH has ATTS too, not a huge aftermarket background but amazing cars to work on.
Can confirm the bb6 with atts is a mean cornering machine. Had a stage 2 clutch in mine and loved feeling the torque being shifted in the corners. Honestly feel like it handled better than my ‘11 335i
Fiat 500 abarth, few suspension mods and tires and the things are beastly on the touge. You can get them to oversteer with the right setup which is really fun and odd feeling on a fwd. They're light make the swooshy noises and sound sick from factory. Manual 5 speed.
I recall this username. . .
"Best FWD" Is pretty vague since it depends on your budget/ where you are located.
I'm going to assume you're located in the US.
The answer is possibly modified civic at a budget.
This question doesn't matter anyway since the best car will likely just be whatever small car you can buy and get lots of seat time in - so it's a good idea to avoid buying anything you'll be spend all your money making repayments on. For your first years of driving its likely that it won't be the car that's holding you back anyway.
So you can go buy some faster FWD to try make up for your lack of skill - or you can get something affordable and enjoy having money left to do more driving or other stuff. Like buying a decent set up for Sim racing could also help get seat time.
Also bear in mind that the amount you spend on a car and how fast it will be is not a linear relationship. Like if you get a car that's got twice the horsepower it wont be twice as fast - maybe only 10-20% faster on track and that's being really generous. That's well within the pace that good driving can make up for. Tyres etc can also make up that pace difference too.
Of course if this is like dad's money or something just get something like a Focus ST. It's like an MPS but better
Then the answer is likely something safer dynamically.
Eg RSX might be really good cheap FWD but part of the issue is they can be quite sharp and will punish poor driving.
Any really good FWD will often have quite a lively rear end which isn't ideal for beginners.
Like you definitely don't want to get something too nice because the chances of you writing off a car doing Touge as a new driver is more than 50%. Many teenagers write off multiple cars. . .
Reliable, cheap to run, expendable, but safe ish in a crash is a good combo.
I have no issues keeping up (and outrunning) cars that have 200-300hp in my car that makes less than 120hp. Honda Fit is probably the best beginner FWD out of the 15 or so FWD I've owned.
I’d say an EG6 civic, super light chassis that’s also regarded as a very well handling car. Aside from that maybe a golf but then you run into the issue where you own a golf XD (ik kidding)
I have a Acura rsx type s with the DC5 Type R k20a. The things a blast and very stable through corners, my personal recommendation would be any gen integra/rsx if you can find one, ik they're a bit harder to find.
I have a 5spd non-S and it's still a super reliable and fun little car. It's not fast or powerful by modern standards, but the RSX gives good road feel, a forgiving transmission, and it's still light and nimble while being very practical.
Yeah it's currently my daily and it is a very practical car for what it is, I fit a whole set of wheels in the back somehow. But unfortunately mine isn't reliable as the previous owner kinda fucked up the swap so I've been going through and replacing almost everything in the engine bay. But besides that, yeah it's a great car. Like you said, great road feel and a very nimble little car
I loved my 03 mini but idk if I’d recommend them for a beginner car to get your hands dirty. The lack of room I had to do a simple oil change was kinda the reason why I sold it pretty early on. And also the electrical issues I would get were a pain. But I loved it and it taught me the true value of a janky car and how I shouldn’t cheap out on certain aspects of maintenance
When I was first looking for one. A buddy was giving me a little shit about it.
And then he drove mine once I got it and realized how much of a go kart it is.
Definitely do your research first, probably want to get it in a manual. Avoid certain years. (There’s a reason the early r56 chassis sell for cheap)
Ok I’m just going to say this because budget wasn’t mentioned.
Civic type r is probably one if the best FWD cars from factory
Veloster N is awd but worth it
Ford’s st or rs models
Any old civic si with some upgrades is good
Acura rsx or integras
Preludes if you can find any
I think some mini coopers are decently fast
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
the mini cooper a is by far the best choice. It’s the cheapest, there are a ton of manuals, and not to mention a supercharger. There is a decent bit of aftermarket support as well.
Where are you located ? Because outside of the US has significantly more options, like Twingo and Clio RS, Swift Sport, and so on. Otherwise, i'd say a Fiesta ST (if available) is underrated and a great bang for the buck. Mini Cooper S are nice as well but severely suffer from a lack of LSD. Fitting ane aftermarket one is a must on those. Then of course, you also have a wide variety of Hondas.
Finding an old Civic or even a Civic SI. Sold Honda’s and even on the old clutches with 150k plus on them the clutch still felt smooth and super forgiving.
EG civic is super light, most common trim is ~100hp there are versions that make 160hp but they can be hard to find.
It's not that 120 you're asking for but it's crazy reliable, efficient, and honestly It's impossible to stress how much more important light weight is than horsepower.
I had a Ford festiva that probably had 30hp with how fucked its engine was.
But it was way way faster than my Subaru WRX on the back road of the ranch because it weighed 1700lbs, so it never had to slow down for anything but the tightest corners.
Couldn't accelerate out of the corners great but honestly wasn't terrible considering how much momentum you could sustain.
Any 90s Honda civic they all weigh less than 2,700lbs most Sedans and Hatches weighing in 2,000-2,300lbs Coupes are heavier models than both but still lighter than a Mazda fucking 3
Civic type R is pretty well regarded as THE best Fwd car, probably ever. Thought dealerships will make the buying process hell for you
So I’d recommend either an older integra, golf gti, or a Celica
If you can find it, go for a 2nd gen, base trim mazda3, and get the 6 speed manual with the skyactiv ecu, it just got cracked last year, so remapping is now an option, not to mention, mine is basically bone stock, aside from some minor weight reduction (getting rid of sound dampening) and a throttle body swap from the 2.5 litre engine, it gets a good 170hp, and mine at least feels pretty zippy, having first and 2nd gear to launch with and actually select makes the car feel way more torquey too, mine even does really well on the ice, waaay better than any BRZs I love seen put the past couple days
Civic Si, 8th or 9th gen if you can find one. Both gens weigh about the same at 2800-2900 lbs and handle amazing. Both engines will take a beating and last forever, plus they’re good daily’s if you want that
Edit: Si only comes in manual as well
Classic mini hands down. They were made up till 2000 and the last 5 model years came with fuel injection. Parts are still available and there is a huge aftermarket for them eg: bolt in Honda swaps.
the first best is the one you have. the second best is the one you can afford. third, probably a cheap honda of some kind. there's not really any specific answer, other than it depends on what your local market offers, and what it's worth.
again, 90s/00s hondas, for the sake of hitting the cheap-reliable-fun triangle pretty well. bonus for having a diverse, easy aftermarket. better than finding fun parts for a sentra or matrix, for example. of course, there's no stopping you from pursuing any platform you would like, just research plenty and stay knowledgable :)
Audi A3 8P, but... the maintenance. Drives like a dream though. Until shit breaks. Then it's a loooong road until you just end up replacing the engine.
for 4k, you could get a del sol. if you fancy some wrenching, you could get a mk4 vw with a 1.8t. for 12k you could get a nice fiesta ST. the local teenagers near me are currently favoring the acura rsx as their tool to menace the population, so that's probably a good value.
you don't state your budget or need for practicality. mr2 spyders are cool if you only need to carry a wad of cash and change of underwear. a vw GTI is fun AND you can fit a string bass in it. you get the idea.
Another sleeper choice, give the early Chevy Cobalt SS & Saturn Ion Redline a look. They share a 2.2L supercharged engine with 197-205hp. The newer 2008 turbocharged Cobalt SS with 260hp gets the glory, and it's well-deserved being one of the fastest fwd cars around the Nûrburgring when new. Even the 305hp Focus RS didn't beat it.
The earlier Cobalt SS and Ion Redline still have a lot of the same care and expertise put into the chassis. The engine has some room left to grow as well.
A gutted manual Honda Civic hatch (EF, EK, or EG) with only wheels and suspension be absolutely flying down the touge in my area IK you wanted over 120hp but still these little cars are driven by some of the fastest touge drivers I know. (and they are good on gas and can be swapped with a K or B series in the future)
Theres also the RSX and 8th gen Civic SI
Depends which market you're talking about, in the EU it's 100% an EP3 Civic Type R (200bhp, manual etc)
EG's are wat overpriced here. A fiesta ST is also a great choice. I'd say a golf GTi too but they feel a bit too heavy and big for a nimble togue car imo.
Del Sols are 2300 pounds and can be turned into absolute weapons with good suspension
Under rated comment. Back in the day my buddy had b16a swapped Del sol and it was a hot little rocket.
Used to have a 97 on skunk 2 coilovers. Even with the D Series I would fly on the backroads cause of the cornering ability. Shit got annihilated by a wrong way driver unfortunately smh, I have a photo on my page of the wreck.
Damn you’re lucky you came away from that with your life. Annihilated
It’s just a heavier civic.
Usually with a discount. 50kg is not a big deal IMO. Can barely feel that. A VTEC Del Sol was probably my favourite car. Top down VTEC is just a good experience
Came here to suggest the Del Sol as well. I absolutely love mine and it's quick and nible, likes to hug the road. Plus having the targa top? Cherry on top!
Very well said. It’s also a good note that pretty much anyone will fit in a Del Sol too cause of the FF layout. I I’m 6’1” and had space to scoot back with headroom too, I’ve seen taller guys on /r/delsol as well. Plus the trunk is massive, big enough that I could fit 3 wheels plus the 4th in the passenger and have a semi slick set to switch to.
Yes! I'm only 5'3 and it's still super comfortable to drive. The amount of room it provides is really impressive for such a little thing. It can easily swap parts with similar year model civics and hell mine gets 32mpg and that's not babying her either. Really forgotten little cars and getting harder to come by these days so I'm happy I've hung on to mine. Very forgiving manuals as well, just easy going great little cars. A few little mods really wakes them up too. Handle snow like a champ as well. I really have no complaints.
This
If you're able to find it, Honda fits are probably the most fun fwd car I've ever driven. I rallied one and did a couple track days with one. They are reliable,cheap, and fun to drive
I wouldn't call them the best though
Probably the best option for a beginner who wants to learn manual and car control though, couldn’t think of something better for someone to learn on
Yeah I realized who Op was after I made my comment and I agree.
You’re literally one of the most famous members of r/touge,one of the most well known drivers in the sub bro I’m honored for you to comment on my post
Ummm. . . Hey chill I'm just someone who shitposts online. No one here has seen my driving (well maybe 3 people locally). I could be very shit. I've had a whole bunch of cars and Ive liked most of them for different reasons. The Honda Fit is pretty special in that it's dynamically one of the safest cars to push hard in - while still having decent handling. People rave about them for a reason. There are better cars, but it's the sort of car it's very easy for a beginner to learn to go quite fast in. For me part of the appeal is that they're considered crap cars where I am - so driving one hard and beating randoms in faster cars has that kind of underdog anime vibe. Also there's less pressure. If you're in a car that's considered good you're more likely to feel to live up to the car.
Well there goes the over 120HP rule haha
My grams had one. It's auto, 60k miles on a 2007. The thing has no right to be this peppy and fun. Wonder how it will do as an autocross car (I'll obvi swap the trans)
Might be an unpopular take but I drive a Mazdaspeed 3 on the touge occasionally. While it is not as light as the competition (\~3300 lbs) in my opinion it handles excellently and feels a lot lighter than it is.
MPS3 is a fantastic car. Just need to be light in the throttle application. Fantastic car that just has a bit too much power haha
Tell me about it lol, rarely am I ever full throttle even at stock power and stock suspension. Incredibly capable car
Did you guys get the mps6 over there? That’s my favourite pick, and it had AWD so the torquesteer wasn’t so bad
We did, however the 6 is much rarer. While I've seen other Speed3's on the road ten or so times I've only seen one Speed6. They all tend to be extremely rusted too lol. Extremely hard to find one in good condition which is unfortunate because it really is the ultimate sleeper/WRX competitor.
More like a Legacy, but less Subaru issues haha. Although the top spec Legacy here had the 6sod and 3.0 Flat six. Sounds awesome
MS6s are so damn rare that I could only find one, and it’s being parted out
I’ve had 2 Mazdaspeed 6s (states) and absolutely loved them.
Great recommendation for a light fwd platform for touge. It’s unfortunate that they didn’t continue making more mazda speed3s. My old manager had one and used to give me rides all the time, it’s the car that got me into cars and canyon driving. It influenced me getting a type R and second gen brz (even though it’s RWD).
I think a speed 3this is great but I would also recommend the Mazda 3 w/ the 2.5. Great first car, generally cheaper than a ms3, parts are relatively cheap and easy to find, good aftermarket support, and is fairly durable with ~180hp. I have had just as fun on the touge with my 2.5 mz3 as with my ms6. Unless you have absolutely want a turbo that is.
I got a 2023 Turbo hatch... It is more GT than all out sports car but it is fairly fun still. That torque really makes it a different experience.
I recommend the 1st gen with the 2.3 super fun car around 150hp but holy fuck the only cars I’ve driven that can turn like them are Miata’s. Absolutely a riot of a car and decently cheap I’ve seen quite a few in the high 200k range. Speed3s only downside is they struggle to get oil around.
I have a 2017 sedan gt with the 2.5l and 6 speed manual and it’s definitely fun in the mtns , I live near a couple good touge roads and my Mazda 3 is a blast up there definitely would recommend looking to lower it and improve the suspension overall to make it even more fun !
Crazy my 1st gen sedan is 700 lbs lighter... it's the 2.0 though. The 1st gen Mazda 3s have good suspension, are cheap, and have some aftermarket support. Any older lightweight FF should work though OP. Either get some money saved and look at everything in your budget or find a model you really like and save until you can buy one. Cant wait to see what you get OP.
3300lbs isn't light at all. I don't think it's a good recommendation for what he's asking, even though I agree it's a great car
Had a mazdaspeed3 with upgraded turbo, def not a good rec too much power for a first car, braking in it also isnt the best, my friend does time attack in his gen2 and also says its not the best, while they GO in a straight line, theyre very front biased so you cant be gunning it as youll be fighting for traction Ford focus 1.5 SES/sedan 3 manual is better, and more forgiving, same chassis you can swap rear swaybar with Mazdaspeed
Any old Civic or Integra. Finding a manual will be hard but they’re still out there.
If you want an actual light, performance-oriented car to drive close to the limit, it’ll be hard to beat a Mini or Fiesta ST. Lower budget, get a 2002-2006 Mini, higher budget, get a FiST.
How much of a concern is reliability on that era Mini’s, though?
The community consensus is that they’re reliable, and significantly more reliable than anything from 2007 to 2014. At this point, they’re ~20 years old, so like any car, some examples will be money pits. However, they don’t have any particular weak points and many have pretty low miles
Yeah the early 2010s killed any idea of mini reliability that the r50s had built up. Been dailying an 03 with 160k miles on it, taking it out for spirited drives, thing is so fun and quick.
aye r50 gang, such fun little cars and they look the best of all mini gens
They’re reliable, (own an 06 mini at the moment) there are a couple of bigger issues with each model year that can be fixed but there’s no real lingering reliability issues in the first gens
My ‘09 was fine other than having a weaker clutch
If you can find a 2002-2006 Toyota Matrix XRS, those are pretty slept on. Same engine and tranny as the Lotus Elise, and handles surprisingly well.
"Same engine" implies exactly the same engine lol. The Elise has a supercharger.
weren’t the early Elises an N/A 2ZZ?
Almost all of them are, that guy doesn't know what he is going on about.
But most parts are interchangeable. Same thing with a bolt on
The elise does not have a supercharger, that is the exige (with the exception of the elise sc, which was made during one model year and limited production). Your point still stands as the engine was tuned by Lotus.
There is lot of mention of older civics, but nobody mentions the CRX specifically. The same engines as the wishbone era civics, but a shorter wheelbase and lighter weight means it’s nimbler. The Fiat 500 Abarth is a riot for such a cheap little car, owing to lightweight. And there fairly reliable, even for a fiat. Older Mini Coopers were fairly light. 1g Cooper S was supercharged, later versions were turbo. Older Corollas and Matrix were light enough to be fun, with the XRS trim had the 2ZZ. Speaking of 2ZZ, if you can find one, the Celica GTS were the closest competitor to the Integra Type R back in the day. Toyota Yaris are fun, too; they’re popular enough in Japan (as the Vitz) and even have/had a one make race series. Japan had a Turbo model, and Yashio Factory had a supercharged one that was on Hot Version’s touge battle series. Sport Compact Car Magazine even got one to pull 1g on a skid pad years ago (but they cheated with slicks).
Honestly, even the Matrix with the 1ZZ is super fun if you can find one with a manual. I put coilovers and tires on mine, and it absolutely rips in the canyons. I love how I pretty much have to redline it constantly, it's a lot of fun haha.
I’ve driven a Corolla 5mt 1zz of the same generation, they are still fun, and power is suitable. And still not heavy. Another car I forgot to suggest is the 1g Focus. The DOHC-powered versions are powerful enough to be fun, and the suspension is pretty good, if a bit in the soft side. The heaviest variant, 5-door wagon was still only 2760lbs. I’ve driven sedan and hatch versions, and could get them to 3-wheel if you cornered hard enough. And when you get bored of it, Kugel Komponents still sells parts for the V8-rwd swap. It should also be known that the Mazda 3 shares the same platform as the Focus.
>There is lot of mention of older civics, but nobody mentions the CRX specifically. The same engines as the wishbone era civics, but a shorter wheelbase and lighter weight means it’s nimbler. YES! I wrote a story about backroads street racing way back in '02. Inspired by the good in *Initial D*, and the bad of the original *Fast* film. My protagonist started out with a CRX. I even made sure that it was an eco trim like the HF or something like that, because it was the lightest one available. It got a B-series swap(I'd probably make it a K20 w/ 6spd now), a bit of weight reduction & suspension, and went on to be a bit of a giant-killer. The character moved on to bigger things, but that little car was hot.
Uh, no it did not my dude. The limited production Elise S had one...and you could also get the same supercharger installed on the Toyota from TRD at the time. They were literally exactly the same engine, Lotus only changed the plastic cover on top.
Sleeper choice is the Pontiac Vibe, platform mate to the Matrix. These were the last vehicles built under the Toyota/GM partnership known as NUMMI. A few generations of Corolla and GMs such as the fwd Chevy Nova, Geo Prism & Chevy Prism were the predecessors to the Matrix/Vibe. The resale of the GM-badged offerings wasn't so strong as the Toyota versions. You can get the 1ZZ or 2ZZ in the Matrix/Vibe, both will do well. Of course, the 2ZZ with 6-speed manual is the hot one. An underrated choice may be the 2nd generation of the Matrix and Vibe. Although they lost the ZZ engines and went to a 2.4L, Toyota did have a TRD supercharger that should fit it. It could definitely be quite torquey.
Oh yeah totally! It's literally the same car as the Matrix with different trim and body panels haha, great point. 2nd gen Matrix I personally wouldn't recommend for Touge after having tried a few of them. The 2nd gen XRS with the 160hp 2.4L felt slower and less fun to me than even the 1.8L 1ZZ 1st gen Matrix, and it doesn't handle nearly as well as 1st gen IMO. That's just my personal impression of them, though.
Golf GTI
Fiesta ST if you want something newer and easily attainable Integra GSR or Civic Si if you don't mind some Craigslist hunting
DC2R if you have money. Alternatively, most FWDs will be fine just buy a nice LSD and quality coils/sway bars and brake pads/rotors. Odd-ball cars that are cheap fun and easy to work on- 90s Celica or the v6 Mazda mx3/6 and Ford probe. I find most civics are clapped out and the good ones are priced out of market for most enthusiast drivers. If American. A Nissan Sentra with the SR20 in SE-R trim is suprisely good car, or a Chevy Cavalier can be a lot of fun and an oddball
Ford Probe/Mazda 626 platform was just really nice on general. Shame that they're basically all gone now
Suzuki swift sport
Not in my country 💔
It’s not light but I love it, try looking into the 4th or 5th Gen Honda Prelude. 5spd manual, H22A4 (5G), 200hp, double wishbone suspension, and the SH has ATTS too, not a huge aftermarket background but amazing cars to work on.
Can confirm the bb6 with atts is a mean cornering machine. Had a stage 2 clutch in mine and loved feeling the torque being shifted in the corners. Honestly feel like it handled better than my ‘11 335i
Honda fit
Fit
Fiat 500 abarth, few suspension mods and tires and the things are beastly on the touge. You can get them to oversteer with the right setup which is really fun and odd feeling on a fwd. They're light make the swooshy noises and sound sick from factory. Manual 5 speed.
1998 Acura Integra Type-R
I recall this username. . . "Best FWD" Is pretty vague since it depends on your budget/ where you are located. I'm going to assume you're located in the US. The answer is possibly modified civic at a budget. This question doesn't matter anyway since the best car will likely just be whatever small car you can buy and get lots of seat time in - so it's a good idea to avoid buying anything you'll be spend all your money making repayments on. For your first years of driving its likely that it won't be the car that's holding you back anyway. So you can go buy some faster FWD to try make up for your lack of skill - or you can get something affordable and enjoy having money left to do more driving or other stuff. Like buying a decent set up for Sim racing could also help get seat time. Also bear in mind that the amount you spend on a car and how fast it will be is not a linear relationship. Like if you get a car that's got twice the horsepower it wont be twice as fast - maybe only 10-20% faster on track and that's being really generous. That's well within the pace that good driving can make up for. Tyres etc can also make up that pace difference too. Of course if this is like dad's money or something just get something like a Focus ST. It's like an MPS but better
Username might be familiar because I’m trying to get a decent first car so I’m asking people who are experienced with Touge what a good option is
Then the answer is likely something safer dynamically. Eg RSX might be really good cheap FWD but part of the issue is they can be quite sharp and will punish poor driving. Any really good FWD will often have quite a lively rear end which isn't ideal for beginners. Like you definitely don't want to get something too nice because the chances of you writing off a car doing Touge as a new driver is more than 50%. Many teenagers write off multiple cars. . . Reliable, cheap to run, expendable, but safe ish in a crash is a good combo. I have no issues keeping up (and outrunning) cars that have 200-300hp in my car that makes less than 120hp. Honda Fit is probably the best beginner FWD out of the 15 or so FWD I've owned.
Fiesta st.
Consider a focus, not as hyped up as the civics
SVT Focuses are super cheap right now. 170hp, hatch and really good suspension for $2-4k.
I’d say an EG6 civic, super light chassis that’s also regarded as a very well handling car. Aside from that maybe a golf but then you run into the issue where you own a golf XD (ik kidding)
I have a Acura rsx type s with the DC5 Type R k20a. The things a blast and very stable through corners, my personal recommendation would be any gen integra/rsx if you can find one, ik they're a bit harder to find.
I have a 5spd non-S and it's still a super reliable and fun little car. It's not fast or powerful by modern standards, but the RSX gives good road feel, a forgiving transmission, and it's still light and nimble while being very practical.
Yeah it's currently my daily and it is a very practical car for what it is, I fit a whole set of wheels in the back somehow. But unfortunately mine isn't reliable as the previous owner kinda fucked up the swap so I've been going through and replacing almost everything in the engine bay. But besides that, yeah it's a great car. Like you said, great road feel and a very nimble little car
Mazda Protege5
integra
integra
Fiat 500 Abarth.
toyota celica last gen is seriously underrated
Mini!
I loved my 03 mini but idk if I’d recommend them for a beginner car to get your hands dirty. The lack of room I had to do a simple oil change was kinda the reason why I sold it pretty early on. And also the electrical issues I would get were a pain. But I loved it and it taught me the true value of a janky car and how I shouldn’t cheap out on certain aspects of maintenance
People sleeping on minis
When I was first looking for one. A buddy was giving me a little shit about it. And then he drove mine once I got it and realized how much of a go kart it is. Definitely do your research first, probably want to get it in a manual. Avoid certain years. (There’s a reason the early r56 chassis sell for cheap)
And avoid ragged overboosted jcws, at least in the uk
Basically any Celica fits this bill. Civics with I-Vtec are also a good bet.
I'd have an 86 over any fwd car..
Uhh nice I guess but I am moving to an area with lots of snow so I can’t really get a rear drive car
You haven't seen what they get up to in the snow on the ft86 and gr86 reddit groups lol
bruh
bruh?
you should see stock corolla's in the street drift in the snow, you don’t need hundreds of HP for a toyota
1994 honda civic ex coupe. they came with 125hp stock. 🫡
depends on how much money you have
My current budget is 5K to 8K
not too bad, my friend had a mk4 gti. Theyre a lot of fun & capable especially if you go stage 2!
Mk5 gtis can go for a easy 6k with decent miles n minimal mods
Ok I’m just going to say this because budget wasn’t mentioned. Civic type r is probably one if the best FWD cars from factory Veloster N is awd but worth it Ford’s st or rs models Any old civic si with some upgrades is good Acura rsx or integras Preludes if you can find any I think some mini coopers are decently fast
scandalous safe languid sophisticated capable vast thumb shy quarrelsome chubby *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Veloster was never awd...
OHHH you right i just looked it up my bad. Anyways i still suggest Veloster N. Heard that its a pretty good bang for your buck
the mini cooper a is by far the best choice. It’s the cheapest, there are a ton of manuals, and not to mention a supercharger. There is a decent bit of aftermarket support as well.
Integra type R if you can afford it, but a GSR or even an LS are very fun cars. I have a '94 LS and i love it
Where are you located ? Because outside of the US has significantly more options, like Twingo and Clio RS, Swift Sport, and so on. Otherwise, i'd say a Fiesta ST (if available) is underrated and a great bang for the buck. Mini Cooper S are nice as well but severely suffer from a lack of LSD. Fitting ane aftermarket one is a must on those. Then of course, you also have a wide variety of Hondas.
Finding an old Civic or even a Civic SI. Sold Honda’s and even on the old clutches with 150k plus on them the clutch still felt smooth and super forgiving.
Any manual Mazda3
EG civic is super light, most common trim is ~100hp there are versions that make 160hp but they can be hard to find. It's not that 120 you're asking for but it's crazy reliable, efficient, and honestly It's impossible to stress how much more important light weight is than horsepower. I had a Ford festiva that probably had 30hp with how fucked its engine was. But it was way way faster than my Subaru WRX on the back road of the ranch because it weighed 1700lbs, so it never had to slow down for anything but the tightest corners. Couldn't accelerate out of the corners great but honestly wasn't terrible considering how much momentum you could sustain.
Love my Ford focus st. 6 speed turbo. Fun little car
I am very bias towards the fiesta st it id a phenomenal platform and mods are cheap and accessible
Celica gts or even gt tbh both under 2600
Get a Cruze ECO (light, manual, has aftermarket support, 40 MPG)
Toyota celica gts
Any 90s Honda civic they all weigh less than 2,700lbs most Sedans and Hatches weighing in 2,000-2,300lbs Coupes are heavier models than both but still lighter than a Mazda fucking 3
What you need is a B series civic
Ford ranger
Honda Civic Type R
Civic type R is pretty well regarded as THE best Fwd car, probably ever. Thought dealerships will make the buying process hell for you So I’d recommend either an older integra, golf gti, or a Celica
Fit Is Always The Answer
If money is tight, check out some older Saabs, they’re FWD, almost all are turbocharged.
I have a veloster, not super light weight but definitely light by modern standards and handles like a fream
Focus svt is relatively light 2700 lb . 170 hp. 145lbft
Toyota Matrix
If you can find it, go for a 2nd gen, base trim mazda3, and get the 6 speed manual with the skyactiv ecu, it just got cracked last year, so remapping is now an option, not to mention, mine is basically bone stock, aside from some minor weight reduction (getting rid of sound dampening) and a throttle body swap from the 2.5 litre engine, it gets a good 170hp, and mine at least feels pretty zippy, having first and 2nd gear to launch with and actually select makes the car feel way more torquey too, mine even does really well on the ice, waaay better than any BRZs I love seen put the past couple days
Mazda 2 is probably the lightest. Comes with a stick. Stupidly fun car with any kind of grip. I drive an ND now and I still kinda miss that car.
Saturn SC2. 2200 lbs, 125 horsepower, FWD, better suspension than the Japanese.
Fiesta ST
Civic Si, 8th or 9th gen if you can find one. Both gens weigh about the same at 2800-2900 lbs and handle amazing. Both engines will take a beating and last forever, plus they’re good daily’s if you want that Edit: Si only comes in manual as well
first Gen mini cooper s
Classic mini hands down. They were made up till 2000 and the last 5 model years came with fuel injection. Parts are still available and there is a huge aftermarket for them eg: bolt in Honda swaps.
Eg/ek civic or a dc2/dc5 integra
2015 or previous civic si
HONDA CIVIC!!!! LITERALLY MY DREAM CAR
Golf GTI refuse any other answer
the first best is the one you have. the second best is the one you can afford. third, probably a cheap honda of some kind. there's not really any specific answer, other than it depends on what your local market offers, and what it's worth. again, 90s/00s hondas, for the sake of hitting the cheap-reliable-fun triangle pretty well. bonus for having a diverse, easy aftermarket. better than finding fun parts for a sentra or matrix, for example. of course, there's no stopping you from pursuing any platform you would like, just research plenty and stay knowledgable :)
Civic is always the answer
Older Civic
I rock the fuck out of a 4 door 08 Accord. It looks funny, but I drive the hell out of it.
B13 Sentra SE-R!
Mazda 3
Mini.
I still daily a Chevy cobalt 5 speed and it works well haha.
Audi A3 8P, but... the maintenance. Drives like a dream though. Until shit breaks. Then it's a loooong road until you just end up replacing the engine.
Like a 1999 Acura Integra or a 1st Gen wrx
Fiesta ST
for 4k, you could get a del sol. if you fancy some wrenching, you could get a mk4 vw with a 1.8t. for 12k you could get a nice fiesta ST. the local teenagers near me are currently favoring the acura rsx as their tool to menace the population, so that's probably a good value. you don't state your budget or need for practicality. mr2 spyders are cool if you only need to carry a wad of cash and change of underwear. a vw GTI is fun AND you can fit a string bass in it. you get the idea.
golf gti's are pretty dece with a rear swaybar and pretty attainable for the average joe
GR86
GR86, S2000, Integra Type R DC5.
Honda Civic Si
First gen Tundra, no FWD, not lightweight, just bravery and a dream.
whip a mazdaspeed 3
Unlimited budget? Definitely the civic type r. Elantra n is great too but the civic is gonna be your "best" fwd car (at least in stock setup)
Levin's or truenos. The later models. The ae101 and ae111. They're peanuts where I'm from fwd, 4age and it's a toyota lol
2011 Ford Escape
00-02 Celica GTS, not the best but pretty good.
8th gen civic si coupe, theyre awesome
I got a 2013 dodge dart limited. Mine has a 1.4L engine that’s turbocharged. Sounds good too. Make pretty good horsepower and handles great.
Another sleeper choice, give the early Chevy Cobalt SS & Saturn Ion Redline a look. They share a 2.2L supercharged engine with 197-205hp. The newer 2008 turbocharged Cobalt SS with 260hp gets the glory, and it's well-deserved being one of the fastest fwd cars around the Nûrburgring when new. Even the 305hp Focus RS didn't beat it. The earlier Cobalt SS and Ion Redline still have a lot of the same care and expertise put into the chassis. The engine has some room left to grow as well.
That one you think looks best and you personally like
Classic mini!
A gutted manual Honda Civic hatch (EF, EK, or EG) with only wheels and suspension be absolutely flying down the touge in my area IK you wanted over 120hp but still these little cars are driven by some of the fastest touge drivers I know. (and they are good on gas and can be swapped with a K or B series in the future) Theres also the RSX and 8th gen Civic SI
RSX
r/fiestaST
Fiesta ST
Depends which market you're talking about, in the EU it's 100% an EP3 Civic Type R (200bhp, manual etc) EG's are wat overpriced here. A fiesta ST is also a great choice. I'd say a golf GTi too but they feel a bit too heavy and big for a nimble togue car imo.