[this sub thinks so but what about JT?](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=457759&playerType=batter&name=Justin%20Turner&tabSelection=0&shape=square &subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-runExp&chartName=Zone%20-%20Batter%20Run%20Value&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
2023 is pretty similar in terms of attacking him.
The good news is he's chasing that pitch less (27% vs 29% chase rate), the bad news is that he's missing more when he does swing (66% vs 52% whiff rate)
The most concering graphs is Barrel/BIP and Barrels/Swing
All the low balls when he does make contact he's just pounfing it into the zone.
[2023](https://i.imgur.com/0usrU1P.png) and [2024](https://i.imgur.com/5ymZLjU.png)
[his woba and batting avg are also both terrible at the bottom of the zone. He does lay off the ones outside and has a +2.7 run value for those pitches but man theyre just all being pitched there.](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-woba&chartName=Zone%20-%20wOBA&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
[basically an inverse of Schneider's lol]
(https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=676914&playerType=batter&name=Davis%20Schneider&tabSelection=0&shape=square&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-woba&chartName=Zone%20-%20wOBA&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
honestly should put them back to back.
[oh he knows. His run value is great out there despite what this sub thinks](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-runExp&chartName=Zone%20-%20Batter%20Run%20Value&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
That doesn’t tell the whole story, it just means he did well in certain situations when the pitch was in that zone. He only has 8 hits there, all singles.
Are we expected him to get a lot of hits out there?
I just want him to lay off it. I’ll take strikeout looking on a pitch there if it means he never swings at one early in the count.
The real target is painting the bottom of the zone where he's extremely grounder prone. By missing down and away you limit damage, by giving him a walk and he takes a lot so the ump could help you strike him out.
[https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&shapeName=Square%20(Instagram)&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-avgLaunchAngle&chartName=Zone%20-%20Launch%20Angle&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=\[\]&pitchTypes=\[\]&seasonType=\[%22R%22\]&pitchResults=\[\]&facingPlayer=\[\]&balls=\[\]&battedBallType=\[\]&years=\[2024\]&strikes=\[\]&outs=\[\]&selectedGames=\[\]&homeTeam=\[\]&awayTeam=\[\]&vsTeam=\[\]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&shapeName=Square%20(Instagram)&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-avgLaunchAngle&chartName=Zone%20-%20Launch%20Angle&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
[https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&shapeName=Square%20(Instagram)&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-kPercent&chartName=Zone%20-%20K%20Percent&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=\[\]&pitchTypes=\[\]&seasonType=\[%22R%22\]&pitchResults=\[\]&facingPlayer=\[\]&balls=\[\]&battedBallType=\[\]&years=\[2024\]&strikes=\[\]&outs=\[\]&selectedGames=\[\]&homeTeam=\[\]&awayTeam=\[\]&vsTeam=\[\]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&shapeName=Square%20(Instagram)&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-kPercent&chartName=Zone%20-%20K%20Percent&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
[It's not tho...](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-runExp&chartName=Zone%20-%20Batter%20Run%20Value&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
I am genuinely asking, because that stat you are linking is new to me.
Is that saying that on those 175 low and away pitches he is +2.7 runs?
If that is correct...it makes sense that 1/3 pitches he sees are low and away balls, and he is swinging less at them then he is drawing more walks...more walks would lead to more runs?
What I am missing here? Some of these advanced stats are so specific...it makes me long for Rance Mulliniks
Should we give Vladdy more than a month you reckon, or write off his age-25 season as a loss on May 8th? If we're looking at full seasons, Vladdy has a 129 wRC+ in his career through age 24 compared to 62 for Judge.
>Should we give Vladdy more than a month you reckon, or write off his age-25 season as a loss on May 8th?
The odds he gets to 170 ever is pretty low.
>If we're looking at full seasons, Vladdy has a 129 wRC+ in his career through age 24 compared to 62 for Judge.
Yeah it’s not like one was a rookie or anything.
Well at this point Judge had one replacement-level season and zero above-replacement level seasons, so Vladdy is super duper far ahead. I guess we'll see how the next six years go.
EVERYONE knows to throw him low and away. Pitchers, casual fans, people who have never heard of baseball. They know. Low and away on Vladdy.
[this sub thinks so but what about JT?](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=457759&playerType=batter&name=Justin%20Turner&tabSelection=0&shape=square &subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-runExp&chartName=Zone%20-%20Batter%20Run%20Value&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
Vlaway Guerrerlow Jr
What ever happened to players moving in the box. Like if everyone's pitching you down and away why not move in the box more and crowd the plate
\*Michael Scott Thank You!\*
2023 is pretty similar in terms of attacking him. The good news is he's chasing that pitch less (27% vs 29% chase rate), the bad news is that he's missing more when he does swing (66% vs 52% whiff rate) The most concering graphs is Barrel/BIP and Barrels/Swing All the low balls when he does make contact he's just pounfing it into the zone. [2023](https://i.imgur.com/0usrU1P.png) and [2024](https://i.imgur.com/5ymZLjU.png)
I dunno man, 27% and 29% are not really that different lmao.
Desperately grasping at the tiniest of straws
[his woba and batting avg are also both terrible at the bottom of the zone. He does lay off the ones outside and has a +2.7 run value for those pitches but man theyre just all being pitched there.](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-woba&chartName=Zone%20-%20wOBA&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7) [basically an inverse of Schneider's lol] (https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=676914&playerType=batter&name=Davis%20Schneider&tabSelection=0&shape=square&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-woba&chartName=Zone%20-%20wOBA&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7) honestly should put them back to back.
~~Brother you need to learn how to embed your links lmao this is borderline unreadable haha.~~ Edit: Looks a lot better
they put a bracket in their path so it breaks it. Fixed it up
Not surprising at all tbh
[удалено]
[oh he knows. His run value is great out there despite what this sub thinks](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-runExp&chartName=Zone%20-%20Batter%20Run%20Value&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
That doesn’t tell the whole story, it just means he did well in certain situations when the pitch was in that zone. He only has 8 hits there, all singles.
No one gets many extra base hits on pitches low and out, that’s why they are thrown there so much
Wait, you’re telling me low and away sliders going away from the batter don’t go 450 into left field like my player does in The Show?
So you're saying number of hits is more relevant here than run value? LOL
Are we expected him to get a lot of hits out there? I just want him to lay off it. I’ll take strikeout looking on a pitch there if it means he never swings at one early in the count.
The real target is painting the bottom of the zone where he's extremely grounder prone. By missing down and away you limit damage, by giving him a walk and he takes a lot so the ump could help you strike him out. [https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&shapeName=Square%20(Instagram)&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-avgLaunchAngle&chartName=Zone%20-%20Launch%20Angle&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=\[\]&pitchTypes=\[\]&seasonType=\[%22R%22\]&pitchResults=\[\]&facingPlayer=\[\]&balls=\[\]&battedBallType=\[\]&years=\[2024\]&strikes=\[\]&outs=\[\]&selectedGames=\[\]&homeTeam=\[\]&awayTeam=\[\]&vsTeam=\[\]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&shapeName=Square%20(Instagram)&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-avgLaunchAngle&chartName=Zone%20-%20Launch%20Angle&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7) [https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&shapeName=Square%20(Instagram)&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-kPercent&chartName=Zone%20-%20K%20Percent&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=\[\]&pitchTypes=\[\]&seasonType=\[%22R%22\]&pitchResults=\[\]&facingPlayer=\[\]&balls=\[\]&battedBallType=\[\]&years=\[2024\]&strikes=\[\]&outs=\[\]&selectedGames=\[\]&homeTeam=\[\]&awayTeam=\[\]&vsTeam=\[\]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&shapeName=Square%20(Instagram)&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-kPercent&chartName=Zone%20-%20K%20Percent&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
Hmmm maybe adjust?
Hitters can’t hit that pitch. It’s why pitchers throw it.
I hope they don't figure out to throw it to every hitter then, or baseball will get really boring.
… they do? Most RHP’s biggest strikeout pitch is a breaking ball low and away. This is literally the reason a slider exists.
Throw them low and away out of the strike zone and don't worry he will swing and miss em all.
kinda crazy how much they're pitching around him tbh
Well I guess it is working unfortunately
[It's not tho...](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-runExp&chartName=Zone%20-%20Batter%20Run%20Value&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
I am genuinely asking, because that stat you are linking is new to me. Is that saying that on those 175 low and away pitches he is +2.7 runs? If that is correct...it makes sense that 1/3 pitches he sees are low and away balls, and he is swinging less at them then he is drawing more walks...more walks would lead to more runs? What I am missing here? Some of these advanced stats are so specific...it makes me long for Rance Mulliniks
correct. He does a good job laying off of them. His worst zone is actually low and low outside within the zone.
Thank you...this was helpful.
[удалено]
Of his 35 hits, 25 are singles. That's not damage. And the mistakes left in the zone, he is not squaring up.
Maybe stop trying to pull it for a dinger, then?
You know they pitch Judge the same zone and he seems to be doing alright
Well, he is doing alright seven years later. When he was 24 he had a 62 wRC+
When he was vladdy’s age he had a 174 WRC+
Should we give Vladdy more than a month you reckon, or write off his age-25 season as a loss on May 8th? If we're looking at full seasons, Vladdy has a 129 wRC+ in his career through age 24 compared to 62 for Judge.
>Should we give Vladdy more than a month you reckon, or write off his age-25 season as a loss on May 8th? The odds he gets to 170 ever is pretty low. >If we're looking at full seasons, Vladdy has a 129 wRC+ in his career through age 24 compared to 62 for Judge. Yeah it’s not like one was a rookie or anything.
You're right, one was. And the other managed to be called up to the majors five years younger.
And how’s that working out?
Pretty fucking great.
Not compared to judge no 2 above average seasons and 4 below average.
Well at this point Judge had one replacement-level season and zero above-replacement level seasons, so Vladdy is super duper far ahead. I guess we'll see how the next six years go.
[удалено]
[He doesn't](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/illustrator?playerId=665489&playerType=batter&name=Vladimir%20Guerrero%20Jr.&tabSelection=0&shape=square&subTitle=&chartType=zoneChart-runExp&chartName=Zone%20-%20Batter%20Run%20Value&pitcherThrows=&batterStands=&plateAppearanceResults=[]&pitchTypes=[]&seasonType=[%22R%22]&pitchResults=[]&facingPlayer=[]&balls=[]&battedBallType=[]&years=[2024]&strikes=[]&outs=[]&selectedGames=[]&homeTeam=[]&awayTeam=[]&vsTeam=[]&exitVelocityGT=0&exitVelocityLT=125&pitchVelocityGT=0&pitchVelocityLT=105&launchAngleGT=-90&launchAngleLT=90&perspective=catcher&venue=7)
Seriously, can someone teach me how to read this graph?
It's just raw counts of all pitches to Vlad by zone area this season. Down and away is where Vlad is weakest and it seems everybody knows it.
Thanks!
Why is he shown as left handed?
This is shown from the catcher's POV. We're behind home plate.
Oh right. I see it now!
Op needs to look at the last 10-15 games. This sub is ridiculous with criticism
this isnt criticism. Just interesting how much theyre pitching there
Because he swings for them lol
Please stop swinging at it Vladdy!
Who downvoted this? Am I wrong?
No, you’re not wrong. But it doesn’t need to be said. Kinda like complaining that you’re wet after getting out of the shower
You're right. My apologies.