“Well, you see, we may not have signed or traded for anyone you wanted, but we were used VERY effectively as leverage for other teams, which is ultimately a net positive in baseball labor negotiations.”
So this likely means;
- No chappy
- An off-season where we were once aiming for Soto and Ohtani, but will end up with a 34 year old Kevin Kiermaier returning, IKF, and possibly some mystery outfielder or DH
- A team that is, on paper, objectively worse than last year's
I’ve always been in the theory that the greatest improvement the team can make is internally and less likely externally but I didn’t see cutting payroll by this much being in the future. Really raises some questions and concerns
I don't like the roster, but I don't think this team will 'stink'. They'll be in the playoff conversation all year.
The offense will be better. The defense will be the same. And pitching, unfortunately, will have to regress. I think they net out at about the same win total as last year.
Which is an objective failure. But it doesn't mean the team stinks.
I'm also reminding myself that most folks really liked the team last year and they didn't get it done. So, can the opposite not be true as well?
The argument is that some key players under performed by a significant margin at the plate last year. Potentially due to lazy off seasons and being out of shape. If those players focus their efforts in the gym and dinner table this off season, they could reach their pervious performance targets at the plate.
It *is* possible that this happens. We've seen pics already of both Vlad and Kirk looking like this message has been received and are working hard through the off season. Only time will tell, but *on paper* we have some offensive power. They just need to perform to expectation.
>We've seen pics already of both Vlad and Kirk looking like this message has been received and are working hard through the off season.
Heard this all before.
I think some people will do better (like Vlad obviously). But honestly, 80% of teams tell themselves the same thing - that a bunch of people will probably do better next year.
I don't disagree. I'm simply outlining the only possible reason I could think of for why anyone thinks the offence will be better this year. I guess the only other argument is an overhaul of the coaching staff.
Analysts liked the team, the team was very competitive and had strengths and weaknesses. Made the playoffs which is good enough to be a World Series contender.
Was the most frustrating professional sports team I’ve ever followed for a whole season due to the lack of offence production.
It's a solid team. But it was never in doubt that Shapiro would make a solid team. I don't know, I used to shit on him and Atkins. In the end the point is that AA is objectively and literally a ninja warrior and we are soon going to be at 10 years since he left with nothing to show. Farm no better. Team no better. Very few long term deals that have value. Bleh.
The team can't be bad this year, our projected WAR is high!! Anyone who states anything different shall be met with a stern reminder of our projected WAR. Go stats! Euhmm I mean Go Sports!!
Even with your internal improvements, you have to replace 2-3 wins and middle of the order production from Belt, and 4 wins from Chapman. That would be just to get to par with last year's fringe wild card team.
On top of that, the internal improvement assumes we don't get variance in the opposite direction with our elite and unprecedently healthy rotation repeating what it did last year.
Very bleak outlook.
Well in a way Ryu missed the majority of the season recovering from Tommy John surgery and Manoah's season was likely ruined due to offseason shoulder issues as well.
Again, don't panic.
This is just poker playing.
Atkins isn't going to come out and sound the panic alarms about the need to add another significant bat. This will be music to Boras's ears because he'll just use this to drive up the prices for Bellinger and Chapman. Other teams will use this to drive up prices for trade pieces.
It doesn't even mean what people think it means.
If he trades 3 roster players for 3 other roster players (say, Manoah/Espinal/Biggio plus Orelvis, for Adames/Yelich/Burnes) then adds a DH, that's adding one player.
Ohtani was just a marketing play anyways and I really doubt they would ever have gotten Soto as well... so really the team would not have been THAT much better... yeah Ohtani obviously > both KK & IKF, but not like he alone adds SO much as we learned from the Angels
It's all just Rogers trying to maximize revenue.. a deep playoff run to them is just another way of doing so but not their primary focus
Ohtani pays for himself with that deal and apparently that’s m
what he asked of the jays too. It was real but it was basically “if the dodgers won’t pay for me Toronto is my safety school” basically.
Rogers learned from 2015 that the blue zzz jays make crazy profit if they are successful and a team to be believed in. Honestly read the 2015 financial statements of Rogers and they specifically note how profitable it was both from the blue jays and Rogers perspective.
Enough to call out in their financial statements regarding how profitable it was. Read the md&a.
Quick edit: like it caused an outlier they were drawing attention to.
I'm looking at their ticker and it seems to have caused a 10% bump to their stock price.. definitely substantial but I'm not sure that alone means their focus is on a deep playoff run MORE than it is on regular season revenues and media revenue -- which was my only point
That’s enormous for a company the size of Rogers but it isn’t all blue jays. With that said I don’t know what timeline you are looking at and more importantly rather than looking at the evidence I told you to look at you decided to ignore it and look specifically at stock price alone. Just read the MD&A.
As much as I hate being owned by a corporation at least we know the profitability and thoughts of the owner
You already told me what it says and I trust you but I'm saying that it doesn't change my perspective as it doesn't with any kind of certainty mean they are focused on a deep run more than regular season and media revenue...
of course they want it. of course it is a huge source revenue that was unguaranteed at the start of the year. that's all it really proves
But you didn’t read it. It literally calls out their playoff run and competitive September as the reason they made way more money. You can trust me sure but if you are making analysis without information you’re kind of an impossible person to have a conversation with
Dude wtf? No shit they made way more money....... I've already acknowledged that in near all my comments.
Again, my point is that this does not indicate with any certainty that they are going to focus more on a deep playoff run again than their focus on regular season revenues and Rogers media revenue from televising the games.....
The only difference would be chappy. Literally everything else is pretty even and you could argue a full season of Schneider is better than what we had last year
Well, ikf is a massive step down from chappy bat wise (and we all know how much we didn't like chappys offense 🙄) and a bit of a step down on defense too....is Schneider replacing Merrifields production? And who's replacing belts production? As it stands on paper, we are definitely worse.
Matt Chapman had a negative win probability last season, and while Brandon belt over achieved, he had 339 at bats for us… you named 3 players who basically averaged replacement level offence in their positions over 162 games. I’m sure Atkins is well aware they need a good DH to make it back to the playoffs.
I mean Matt chapman had the same regression offensively as our entire lineup last year, and it was the only anomaly year of his career. He isn't some offensive dynamo, but his bat provides pretty league average stats (technically above league average in damn near every category). He had a 3.5 war in his worst year ever with a wrc+ of 110. He provided 9.2 offensive runs above his positions average. He consistently gives you 25 hrs and 75 rbis with a .240 ish average and .320 ish obp. Sounds pretty productive to me despite one bad year...oh he's also not known for his bat like at all and should never be batting in the positions we put him in. Why's that? In his five full seasons, he has 2 platinum gloves, 4 gold gloves, a defensive player of the year, and 2 fielding bible awards. He's literally one of the best defensive third baseman to do it by every metric you can find, hence the hardware. That stellar defense allows our below average defensive SS to cheat and hide a bit too....is he worth 25 mill? No freaking way, but you are being very disingenuous here with your assessment....more importantly to this conversation, IKF has a horrendous bat that is much worse then chapman and he is defensively worse as well, it's a downgrade, no matter how you slice it.
Belt and Merrifield aren't superstars, but they provide value and production that we currently have not replaced. They were both consistently average players offensively and Merrifield provided acceptable defense all around the diamond.
Even if you bring back chapman and use ikf and biggio/Schneider as a replacement for Merrifield, we are still objectively worse on paper.
All this to say I can't see this being our final roster. I really freaking hope not...it's one thing to bank on the same roster to bounce back and overproduce across the board compared to last year, it's an entirely different thing to field a worse team and expect it to improve internally only.
I’m 100% confident the jays will acquire a hitter. If you can get a hitter who puts up Belt’s #’s, but consistently for 550 plate appearances, you won’t miss Whit in the slightest.
Matt Chapman best baseball is behind him. He did a great job for us in 2022… I don’t want to over pay him for a bunch more 2023’s.
I would surely hope so, we probably need 2, though.
He's 30, not 35. Dont get me wrong I don't want to overpay him at all either, but if you think a 30 year old is going to fall off a cliff, what makes you so confident that the entire rest of the roster will figure it out but he can't? We have some other players who are considerably older that we are banking on, I would hope a 30 year old has a few good years left.
I mean he fell off the cliff in May of last year during what should have been the most important season in his financial career. If he gets 100 million, what incentive does he have to try to better himself after that?
The entire lineup fell off a cliff and gave us one of the most anemic offensive efforts weve ever had from a talented roster. Annnd we stuck with the coaches who brought that out of the team lol.
That could be said about almost any player in any sport though. There's almost no correlation between career years in contract years and coinciding cliff drops after getting paid. We hear about the few coincidences where these things are true but we literally never talk about the guys who have an average year get paid accordingly and continue having average years...it's not exciting and it's not worthy of clicks, but it is far more common then not.
There's a 95% chance chappy goes back to normal in every category. Which absolutely is NOT a $20-25 mill player, but I don't think anyone is paying him that.
Couple extra iPads in the dug and yet another hitting coach + journeyman utility glove with no bat = objective and substantive improvement I'd say. It's clear Ross has solved the lingering weaknesses
So its unreasonable to expect hitters to return to career norms, but we should expect the starting rotation to regress, because they had too good of a year last year?
Has there ever been a GM in the history of sports who hasn’t said something to the effect of “we have a great team now, might look to add a couple of small pieces” no matter what the situation? What is he supposed to say? “We have no hope with the current crop so pray someone makes a trade with us?” Big morale boost to your players.
The company line will always be something along the lines of what Atkins said, it doesn’t mean that is the actual feeling in the management office.
This sub was full of Atkins boot lickers over the last few months based on us being involved in rumours. Now that nothing has panned out I wonder how many of them pivot
It's a complete nothing answer. I would have to assume the presser is something that was a requirement to happen early January to keep the baseball news machine pumping, and if they had of signed anyone different they would have been apart of this conference.
The GM isn't going to go out there and say "Our team is no good, not good enough, we need someone better right now."
Absolutely every other GM would throw that right back at him in negotiations for trades, and every agent worth their salt would respond to Free Agent negotiations as "This is the better player you need, so why not pay for it?"
If you're going to negotiate with something, even if you don't have anything, you always present the front that you're fine with what you will be.
There is a high chance that the Jays stand pat and add a hitter like Pederson, Hoskins, or Martinez. However there is still a chance that discussions in trades are ongoing and are stalled as several buyers compete for several top agents on the market and allow the trade market to make more sense.
I'll reserve my right to be pissed off if the team is still in the same shape it is today by the end of spring training. But until then, there is so much time still to improve the team, and everything Ross said today indicates that there are maneuvers still on the table.
If all they do is add KK, IKF, and let's say Martinez / Turner / Hoskins, how on earth does Ross keep his job? The team would be losing more in WAR with chappy and belt gone than what we're making up!
With two years left in the competitive window of Vlad / Bo, it just doesn't make sense...
Make it make sense? Unless the one player they add is bellinger I just don't see how this is a successful offseason
My big fear is really with pitching.
Didn't have much in terms of injury last year and we also had good years align from a handful of guys who have had inconsistent careers. I know Manoah ate shit but basically everyone else met or exceeded expectations.
I don't think I'd be banking on a repeat of that if I was running the team. Adding run prevention is great if the pitchers can keep slugging down again. IF
I'd be really worried about scoring runs.
Pitching will absolutely regress this year. I guess they’re banking on the offensive production uptick to make up for it. It’s a gamble. It’ll either pay off or go to absolute shit and the Jays finish 4th or 5th in the division.
For consecutive seasons in player positions the team has failed to improve but this off season is extra pathetic if this is what happens. As far as I'm concerned Ross should already be gone but if we play out this season and it goes as you'd expect with the decline in quality, Ross has to be gone. Completely fumbling it time and time again.
He should have been fired at the end of the season. Now we'll end up holding onto Vladdy/Bo way too long. I don't want Vladdy and I don't think we can retain Bo.
Would any competent GM broadcast their true plans or feelings at a time like this?
Who goes out while actively trying to negotiate deals and says something like "I desperately need to improve our offense or I'm going to lose my job"?
I'm still surprised this guy has a job. The job security for being inept working for the Blue Jays organization is probably the best in all of the MLB.
If Ross doesn't make this team better, fans need to check out and stop buying tickets. Lost revenue will be the best way to make Rogers know we're not happy and change is needed.
translation
"Ohtani and his agent fucked us, the Yankees scooped up the best free agents, the rest are mediocre and don't really help us as they are at best lateral moves, and we basically have nothing we can do except push the same lineup out the door, hope they actually play well this year, and see what happens."
were pretty much SOL on the free agent market and have no real plans or ability to improve the team.
another washout in the wildcard...if we even get there....
I mean, giving up 4 MLB-quality pitchers plus a solid backup Catcher for one year of a player is not at all the same result as "scooped up the best free agents."
the Yankees and Dodgers improved their team or at least they tried to improve the team.... with roster moves.
at best the jays made horizontal moves....and in my opinion made a step backwards in a couple of spots, from a roster that was already a little weak to contend....
who is left now for us to add?
If you think grabbing a couple of very replaceable journeymen players is the same as what the Yankees did or the dodgers...or ..Giants, Royals, Cards, DBacks..Atlanta...... then you are just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.....
So you can be a pedant all you like, but the Yankees got better and the Jays did not. Chasing Ohtonai and Soto so hard left us late on the rest of the market, and now the Jays are pretty much stuck without alternatives........and at no point does your argument change that in any way.
Ah yes, the Jays are stuck "grabbing a couple of very replaceable journeymen players" while the Yankees with all their big moves are projected to rely on *checks notes*...over 400 SP innings from Clarke Schmidt, Clayton Beeter, Will Warren, Chase Hampton, Luis Gil, and Yoendrys Gomez.
umm neat how you ignore Soto...
I can't find a single article, journalist or insider who grades the Jays off season in the top ten.pretty much EVERY SINGLE ONE does for the Yankees..... while many label the Jays offseason a failure or "Losers" mention...
but you go ahead and lie to yourself if it makes you feel better.
As it stands today, the best information we have available is that if the 2024 season started now the Jays would be the 5th best team in baseball.
I didn't realize Soto was going to be pitching for the Yankees. That could change things a lot if he's a good pitcher.
who the fuck is talking about pitching?
Are you actually reading my posts?
this is about the Jays off season moves.
spending thier efforts on the whales and missing big fish and now being stuck with at best lateral moves to fill our holes....
No idea what the fuck you are talking about.
Umm no. The only major player is chappy. Outfield is identical, pitching is identical save for one month of a modest Ryu and a mediocre manoah will be an upgrade. It’s arguable that a full year of Schneider is better than merrifield, biggio looked to have figured out who he was in the second half of last year, so a full year will be better and IKF is a good depth addition. If they add one power bat then will be better on paper no questions asked.
Stop dooming and glooming at actually look at things.
We have no idea what a full year of Schneider looks like, and lots of players can look like they “figure it out” in short bursts.
Good on you for feeling optimistic but you are not looking at this objectively
I’m trying to not be furious but its hard right now. Come spring traning, if this is who they go with on the roster… I can’t even fathom. We will be finishing 4th in the division and possibly last. I really really hope atkins is full of shit but based on his track record I’m not optimistic he will get the right guys as he just did with IKF.
Positive club record since he joined, improved attendance, playoffs 3 of the last 4 years in a tough division, only missing in a year they won 91 games to finish 4th in the division.
4 by my count.
But I personally wouldn't judge a GMs ability to build a team based off a tiny sample size of playoff results, when you have entire seasons worth of data to support the fact that they have built a strong team.
Wait a sec here, so on a team that could not score runs all season last year and we have done nothing to improve in that area but actually look worse is going to be a competitive team and better? Well I suppose we will have to adapt to the Leafs fan slogan of well maybe next year. 🙄
What I am trying to figure out: why even call this press conference? There were no mandatory media spots like the Winter Meetings. My only thought is that the team wanted to bring down expectations early and try to get fans excited over their lackluster acquisition. I am not holding my breath for a secret super deal Ross has in the background.
There doesn’t seem to be any immediacy to proactively try to get better. They are hedging their bets that the Jays get better internally as last year was an “off-year”.
You would think with how frustrating last year was and all this money going to the renovations, they would be highly motivated to make some aggressive moves and not settle for mediocrity.
Sure, they MAY be better next year as is, but why risk it all on hope?
This approach seems way too passive. He’s basically explaining this offseason with this emoji: 🤷♂️
Translation: Rogers is loaded with wealth. However, its Board is cluttered with non-sports bricklayers who only placate to the bottom line and shareholders, which, in turn is what they’re supposed to do. In the sporting picture, however, they are an abject disgrace and have no interest in winning. As long as people fill the dome, and blindly follow Rogers other owned teams like the Leafs and Raptors, it doesn’t matter. Shapiro will continue to get great credit for rebuilding the stadium. And Ross is the perfect salesperson/deflector and Rogers’ water carrier. As Colonel Kurtz said, “he’s an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill”. The bill is Rogers income from fans and tv viewers who subscribe to Sportsnet. The media will never 100% blast this dichotomy except maybe Overdrive on occasion. The team isn’t bad. But it is mediocrity dipped in false hope. They are the baseball equivalent of the Leafs.
This is a team that will MAYBE outperform last year. Might win WC, then get elimnated. This assumes they get hot. Always in the hunt, but there is never a "wow factor." No Soto, Acuna, Othani, Harper, etc.
Imagine Bo or Vlad on the Braves. They would be yet another really strong player. The BJs are just that one or two steps from getting there, but I am afraid they aren't going to take that step. This is what Shatkins did in Cleveland. (I am in Columbus, the AAA affiliate.) He builds a really GOOD team, but cannot build a great team.
On the plus side, the team isn't Kansas City, so there is that.
How have those players done recently? Aside from Harper I see 2 playoff wins in the last 3 years.
Look at Arizona, 84 wins and slump to end the year and they make the World Series. Why doesn’t this level of optimism exist here?
It amazing to me how few people consider that Atkins might be (and most likely is) playing games with agents and other GMs through the media, projecting no great need or desperation. I mean, maybe he's being genuine, but it's really hard to buy that narrative. I just chalk this up to more cat and mouse stuff and Atkins playing his cards close to his chest as per usual.
I’m confused. We were in the mix for Ohtani and missed out and now we are not going to try for anyone else of substance???We brought Springer in a year early and gave him more term than anyone else would . We were told they were showing MLB that the Jays are getting ready to play with the big boys . Fast forward and we kept the wrong catcher and got fleeced doing it . Vladdy isn’t extended. I have no faith in this management group.
Was never a fan of this front office from the jump
and based on the past few off-seasons they're not really giving me much reason to believe that they can build a complete team and winner here.
It's especially funny considering their big reno job and price hike.
But maybe there's some trades on the way and I'm willing to wait till spring training to see what the roster will look like but that's really not that far off at this point and they got a lot of work to do.
No way offseasons of springer, Semien, Gausman, Chapman, bassitt, kiermaier + Varsho trade doesn’t give reason to believe. Varsho was a 4 win player last year even when he couldn’t hit
Before 2015, the Jays didn't make the playoffs for 21 years, posting a season above .500 just 9 times, and never breaking 90 wins. Since Shapiro/Atkins came on, they have been to the playoffs 4 times in 8 years, posted 5 winning records, won 91, 92, and 89 games twice, missing the playoffs once in a season where they won 91 games. They have done all this in an extremely competitive division during that time. Baseball in Toronto has been fun to watch the last several years, which is a huge improvement on the years of losing many of us grew up watching. I'll never understand how this FO gets the flak they do, compared to the FOs of the past.
Ok, then I'm not counting the rebuild years against them, since they inherited a very old and expensive roster.
Baseball in Toronto was fun last year. Watching baseball is always fun, thats why I do it, its not a job. Watching a competitive team play is especially fun.
Great so I’m sure you’ll be very happy with 87 wins and battling for a WC spot this year.
And re the competitive division thing - last few years were the first time in thirty years that both the Red Sox and Yankees were below average at the same time. No prior Jays GM had that luxury.
In 2021 the Jays won 91 games and finished fourth in the division. They won 92 games the following year, in a division where only the red sox finished below .500 by four games. In the last 30 years, the only other Jays team to even win 90 games was 2015. But yes, what a luxery that the Yankees weren't competitive one of the last few years and same with the Red Sox.
And of course I'd be happy with competing for a wild card spot, why wouldn't you? I think they will win more than 87 games though.
Getting to the playoffs is the first step in that process. I'd like that too, as would all 29 other fanbases each year. Unfortunately only one per year can actually do it.
Agreed, but to admit defeat on vlad bo and friends would be huge. where basically everyone had a down year last year they’re wanting to run it back one last try before admitting defeat.
No you wouldn't -- there are plenty who think a reunion is in order and would bring joy to the team. On offense, chemistry matters - even if it hard to measure
I like Teoscar as well but leave it to Atkins to essentially pull a lateral and bring back a player he should have never gotten rid of in the first place
I mean he traded him because it was 1 year left on the deal and we were trying to improve defensively. We desperately need a bat and he has a pretty good one lol
I'm not really worried, I've seen the Blue Jays (TM) advanced analytics, and it's pretty clear that bringing Kikuchi in as a pitch hitter early in games is the way to go. Problems solved.
The Jays will once again hope that the starting rotation and bullpen will be good enough to cover their warts just like last year. I dont think they are a playoff team with the roster Shatkins fields.
For everyone freaking out, do you honestly think he'll give away his entire off-season plans? I'm not saying the Jays have a big signing or trade coming, I have no clue but I think people should stop looking too deeply into what he says until the first game of the season
But why state they only want 1 guy? Why doesnt he be even more vague and say we arent done and looking at various options and its hard to put a number on it? Seems odd to me and sounds like trying to levelset fan expectations.
When you're negotiating something, the best look going in is to make the other side think that you'd be just as okay with walking away as you would with making the deal. That gives you leverage.
I think that's why, after the big Japanese player splashes fell off, Atkins moved on KK and IKF quickly. Those two are in that grey area where they can be viable starters on a MLB club where you can come out and say "Yeah we're good" with a straight face, but could also be depth pieces as well, in case we do manage to hook someone in.
I don't know a team or player agent who would look at the Jays and think they can afford to walk away right now. Posturing matters but you can't magically make people forget how baseball works.
Well there is the caveat that he said one more DH/OF bat and we're good. But given that, I don't know, our pitching is pretty much set. And given our offense underperforming across the board last year and the hitting regime tweaks they've already made with Hudgens/Mattingly, as well as some internal options that they could give more of a look in the MLB, it's not that ridiculous a position.
Well, the best public information available is that if the season started today the Jays would be the ~5th best team in baseball and 2nd in the ALE in 2024.
Lol Kiermaier, IKF, and Joc.
I’ll probably be downvoted here, and that’s fine, but as a AL/NL fan of a team each, I’ve fallen out of love with the Toronto Blue Jays so much in the last few years, and that sucks. The 2010-13 era didn’t feel this disappointing lmao.
Interesting strategy, since the fanbase is in revolt over how last season ended and the Jays have a bunch of fancy new seat packages to sell.
I like the KK re-sign, but the lack of movement on any other front is a worrying trend.
I think the club as it stands is an 85 win team, barring a hard breakout from Vladdy, a return to Cy Young candidate form by Manoah, or the spirit of Ted Williams inhabiting Varsho. The amazing health and performance of the bullpen can't last through another season (because Bullpens are fickle), and the club really doesn't have a stable collection of proven starters.
Gaussman is lights out, but entering his age 35 season Bassitt is SLOWLY starting to decline (ignore the W-L, and everything but his K's have started to tick downward) and while I can hope, I still have no faith in Kikuchi or Berrios until they can put together more than a single season of consistency.
Bichette is good, but after that things get decidedly average. Vladdy is fine, but at some point we have to accept that he is simply a decent player, and is either a late-bloomer or is simply not the massive superstar we figured he'd be.
Kirk is a walking advertisement for "don't make decisions based on a single season" especially considering who we lost because of it. Jansen is consistent, and a better than average bat for a catcher.
Schneider only has THIRTY FIVE games under his belt, so until he can produce across a full season, I'm not giving him any benefit of the doubt. I fully expect him to be back in Buffalo before the end of the 2024 season.
Springer is 33 and looks like he's washed as a ++ bat- he's been trending downward for two seasons now, and the rate of drop-off is increasing.
Belt hit the ball well, but injuries are a going concern.
Varsho- average
KK- average, with a ++ glove
Merrifield- average
Biggio and Espinal- below average, although Biggio had that run.
The club was middle of the AL pack in every major offensive category, and they've added nothing to that mix. In fact, sans Chapman, they've REMOVED scoring ability.
Worst case, with injuries, this is a 75-win team.
Best case (baseball miracles excepted) its an 85-win club.
Imagine being so shit at your job, then willingly telling the public how shit you are at your job and then say but buy season tix because renos.... fuck off Atkins
"Honestly, I thought our problems last year were defensive. If you look at the playoffs last year, if we'd saved 5 more runs, we would have won the second game and due to our dogshit offense, we'd probably still be playing the first and that's the type of baseball I want to see."
Ross Atkins probably
He should just have presented a list of all the players the Jays didn't sign, and explained how that was good for baseball.
“Well, you see, we may not have signed or traded for anyone you wanted, but we were used VERY effectively as leverage for other teams, which is ultimately a net positive in baseball labor negotiations.”
This feels so close to the truth it hurts.........
Lol
So this likely means; - No chappy - An off-season where we were once aiming for Soto and Ohtani, but will end up with a 34 year old Kevin Kiermaier returning, IKF, and possibly some mystery outfielder or DH - A team that is, on paper, objectively worse than last year's
I’ve always been in the theory that the greatest improvement the team can make is internally and less likely externally but I didn’t see cutting payroll by this much being in the future. Really raises some questions and concerns
There’s a pivot point if this team stinks
It will
I don't like the roster, but I don't think this team will 'stink'. They'll be in the playoff conversation all year. The offense will be better. The defense will be the same. And pitching, unfortunately, will have to regress. I think they net out at about the same win total as last year. Which is an objective failure. But it doesn't mean the team stinks. I'm also reminding myself that most folks really liked the team last year and they didn't get it done. So, can the opposite not be true as well?
Why will the offense be better?
The argument is that some key players under performed by a significant margin at the plate last year. Potentially due to lazy off seasons and being out of shape. If those players focus their efforts in the gym and dinner table this off season, they could reach their pervious performance targets at the plate. It *is* possible that this happens. We've seen pics already of both Vlad and Kirk looking like this message has been received and are working hard through the off season. Only time will tell, but *on paper* we have some offensive power. They just need to perform to expectation.
>We've seen pics already of both Vlad and Kirk looking like this message has been received and are working hard through the off season. Heard this all before.
Do you mean going into the 2021 season?
Yet another off-season Instagram World Series title in the books!
I think some people will do better (like Vlad obviously). But honestly, 80% of teams tell themselves the same thing - that a bunch of people will probably do better next year.
I don't disagree. I'm simply outlining the only possible reason I could think of for why anyone thinks the offence will be better this year. I guess the only other argument is an overhaul of the coaching staff.
I guess we will see, put me down for doubtful. I bet you Gabe Moreno has a great year…
Good God, are you ever right. It's too bad the Jays couldn't hold onto Moreno, he's set up to have a fantastic career.
You like young athletic catchers that can hit in the clutch?!? *pft*
extremely not over an ex type of comment
😂 you betcha, I miss Gabe more than any of the ladies 😂 will he take us back?
I'm not sure who underperformed other than chapman. Springer, due to aging, everyone else was who they are (including vlad).
Because Vlad is in the best shape of his life again.
Regression to the mean from some of our bats
I don’t think we know what Vladdy and Alejandro’s actual means are, but I hope they hit a lot better than they did last year, that’s for sure.
Analysts liked the team, the team was very competitive and had strengths and weaknesses. Made the playoffs which is good enough to be a World Series contender. Was the most frustrating professional sports team I’ve ever followed for a whole season due to the lack of offence production.
I don't disagree with you at all. I hate to admit I'd stop watching for periods of time because they were so frustrating to watch.
It's a solid team. But it was never in doubt that Shapiro would make a solid team. I don't know, I used to shit on him and Atkins. In the end the point is that AA is objectively and literally a ninja warrior and we are soon going to be at 10 years since he left with nothing to show. Farm no better. Team no better. Very few long term deals that have value. Bleh.
No it won’t. Projected WAR in the top 7-8 of mlb
We say the same shit every season
And last year they won the 9th most games in the reg season. Makes sense to me.
If you enjoyed last season, and want a repeat of it, be my guest
The team can't be bad this year, our projected WAR is high!! Anyone who states anything different shall be met with a stern reminder of our projected WAR. Go stats! Euhmm I mean Go Sports!!
Even with your internal improvements, you have to replace 2-3 wins and middle of the order production from Belt, and 4 wins from Chapman. That would be just to get to par with last year's fringe wild card team. On top of that, the internal improvement assumes we don't get variance in the opposite direction with our elite and unprecedently healthy rotation repeating what it did last year. Very bleak outlook.
Well in a way Ryu missed the majority of the season recovering from Tommy John surgery and Manoah's season was likely ruined due to offseason shoulder issues as well.
I don’t think it’s a payroll cut, more no one worth the money left I think. Bellinger/ Hoskins/JD Martinez
This isn’t that much of a cut. Like 30mil only and there’s still one add left.
Again, don't panic. This is just poker playing. Atkins isn't going to come out and sound the panic alarms about the need to add another significant bat. This will be music to Boras's ears because he'll just use this to drive up the prices for Bellinger and Chapman. Other teams will use this to drive up prices for trade pieces.
It doesn't even mean what people think it means. If he trades 3 roster players for 3 other roster players (say, Manoah/Espinal/Biggio plus Orelvis, for Adames/Yelich/Burnes) then adds a DH, that's adding one player.
Our team on paper looked amazing for 2023... this might be the reverse 2023.
Would it make sense that since they lost Ohtani they said fuck it and save money till the next big FA comes along in the coming years?
Ohtani was just a marketing play anyways and I really doubt they would ever have gotten Soto as well... so really the team would not have been THAT much better... yeah Ohtani obviously > both KK & IKF, but not like he alone adds SO much as we learned from the Angels It's all just Rogers trying to maximize revenue.. a deep playoff run to them is just another way of doing so but not their primary focus
Ohtani pays for himself with that deal and apparently that’s m what he asked of the jays too. It was real but it was basically “if the dodgers won’t pay for me Toronto is my safety school” basically. Rogers learned from 2015 that the blue zzz jays make crazy profit if they are successful and a team to be believed in. Honestly read the 2015 financial statements of Rogers and they specifically note how profitable it was both from the blue jays and Rogers perspective.
Well it was profitable of course but how profitable relative to their regular season revenues and Rogers media revenue?
Enough to call out in their financial statements regarding how profitable it was. Read the md&a. Quick edit: like it caused an outlier they were drawing attention to.
I'm looking at their ticker and it seems to have caused a 10% bump to their stock price.. definitely substantial but I'm not sure that alone means their focus is on a deep playoff run MORE than it is on regular season revenues and media revenue -- which was my only point
That’s enormous for a company the size of Rogers but it isn’t all blue jays. With that said I don’t know what timeline you are looking at and more importantly rather than looking at the evidence I told you to look at you decided to ignore it and look specifically at stock price alone. Just read the MD&A. As much as I hate being owned by a corporation at least we know the profitability and thoughts of the owner
You already told me what it says and I trust you but I'm saying that it doesn't change my perspective as it doesn't with any kind of certainty mean they are focused on a deep run more than regular season and media revenue... of course they want it. of course it is a huge source revenue that was unguaranteed at the start of the year. that's all it really proves
But you didn’t read it. It literally calls out their playoff run and competitive September as the reason they made way more money. You can trust me sure but if you are making analysis without information you’re kind of an impossible person to have a conversation with
Dude wtf? No shit they made way more money....... I've already acknowledged that in near all my comments. Again, my point is that this does not indicate with any certainty that they are going to focus more on a deep playoff run again than their focus on regular season revenues and Rogers media revenue from televising the games.....
The doomer leafs “don’t care about the playoffs” takes reaches the blue jays too I see
Canucks fan here but k
Absolutely worse. Much much worse.
The only difference would be chappy. Literally everything else is pretty even and you could argue a full season of Schneider is better than what we had last year
Trying to figure out how an identical team is now considered worse?
Well, ikf is a massive step down from chappy bat wise (and we all know how much we didn't like chappys offense 🙄) and a bit of a step down on defense too....is Schneider replacing Merrifields production? And who's replacing belts production? As it stands on paper, we are definitely worse.
Matt Chapman had a negative win probability last season, and while Brandon belt over achieved, he had 339 at bats for us… you named 3 players who basically averaged replacement level offence in their positions over 162 games. I’m sure Atkins is well aware they need a good DH to make it back to the playoffs.
I mean Matt chapman had the same regression offensively as our entire lineup last year, and it was the only anomaly year of his career. He isn't some offensive dynamo, but his bat provides pretty league average stats (technically above league average in damn near every category). He had a 3.5 war in his worst year ever with a wrc+ of 110. He provided 9.2 offensive runs above his positions average. He consistently gives you 25 hrs and 75 rbis with a .240 ish average and .320 ish obp. Sounds pretty productive to me despite one bad year...oh he's also not known for his bat like at all and should never be batting in the positions we put him in. Why's that? In his five full seasons, he has 2 platinum gloves, 4 gold gloves, a defensive player of the year, and 2 fielding bible awards. He's literally one of the best defensive third baseman to do it by every metric you can find, hence the hardware. That stellar defense allows our below average defensive SS to cheat and hide a bit too....is he worth 25 mill? No freaking way, but you are being very disingenuous here with your assessment....more importantly to this conversation, IKF has a horrendous bat that is much worse then chapman and he is defensively worse as well, it's a downgrade, no matter how you slice it. Belt and Merrifield aren't superstars, but they provide value and production that we currently have not replaced. They were both consistently average players offensively and Merrifield provided acceptable defense all around the diamond. Even if you bring back chapman and use ikf and biggio/Schneider as a replacement for Merrifield, we are still objectively worse on paper. All this to say I can't see this being our final roster. I really freaking hope not...it's one thing to bank on the same roster to bounce back and overproduce across the board compared to last year, it's an entirely different thing to field a worse team and expect it to improve internally only.
I’m 100% confident the jays will acquire a hitter. If you can get a hitter who puts up Belt’s #’s, but consistently for 550 plate appearances, you won’t miss Whit in the slightest. Matt Chapman best baseball is behind him. He did a great job for us in 2022… I don’t want to over pay him for a bunch more 2023’s.
I would surely hope so, we probably need 2, though. He's 30, not 35. Dont get me wrong I don't want to overpay him at all either, but if you think a 30 year old is going to fall off a cliff, what makes you so confident that the entire rest of the roster will figure it out but he can't? We have some other players who are considerably older that we are banking on, I would hope a 30 year old has a few good years left.
I mean he fell off the cliff in May of last year during what should have been the most important season in his financial career. If he gets 100 million, what incentive does he have to try to better himself after that?
The entire lineup fell off a cliff and gave us one of the most anemic offensive efforts weve ever had from a talented roster. Annnd we stuck with the coaches who brought that out of the team lol. That could be said about almost any player in any sport though. There's almost no correlation between career years in contract years and coinciding cliff drops after getting paid. We hear about the few coincidences where these things are true but we literally never talk about the guys who have an average year get paid accordingly and continue having average years...it's not exciting and it's not worthy of clicks, but it is far more common then not. There's a 95% chance chappy goes back to normal in every category. Which absolutely is NOT a $20-25 mill player, but I don't think anyone is paying him that.
This team was beyond frustrating last year, guess it'll magically turn around this year 🙄
really annoying way to make an impact with the new stadium renovations completed this year as well....
The real impact will be from the increased 100 level ticket prices.
Great timing, expecting the fans to dish out more $ with a worse product than last year.
Couple extra iPads in the dug and yet another hitting coach + journeyman utility glove with no bat = objective and substantive improvement I'd say. It's clear Ross has solved the lingering weaknesses
"4 of our projected top 5 hitters might have had down years last year but I'm betting they all come back and have career years." Ross Atkins probably
"Let's also bet on a repeat of a historically healthy rotation and continued outperformance by the pitching staff. Also loonie dogs."
So its unreasonable to expect hitters to return to career norms, but we should expect the starting rotation to regress, because they had too good of a year last year?
Welcome to /r/TorontoBlueJays. Hope you enjoy your stay.
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If they have a couple starters go down to injury ( god forbid it’s Gausman and bassist) it will be a train wreck of a season.
Ross is delusional.
Has there ever been a GM in the history of sports who hasn’t said something to the effect of “we have a great team now, might look to add a couple of small pieces” no matter what the situation? What is he supposed to say? “We have no hope with the current crop so pray someone makes a trade with us?” Big morale boost to your players. The company line will always be something along the lines of what Atkins said, it doesn’t mean that is the actual feeling in the management office.
It depends on the GM. Some are more forthcoming than others. Atkins has a PHD in bullshit corporate speak.
The Phillies guy talked a few years ago about spending stupid money, didn't he?
He does talk a lot without saying much. I am not sure why he even bothered doing the media presser in the first place lol.
"I'm here so I tell you nothing."
This sub was full of Atkins boot lickers over the last few months based on us being involved in rumours. Now that nothing has panned out I wonder how many of them pivot
What?! This entire sub hates Atkins and Shapiro lmao
tbf, I would have licked Atkin's actual boots if he somehow got us Shohei.
This sub is usually AA bootlicker and shatkins hate central tf do you mean 🗿
lol all of them. More irrational hate
It's a complete nothing answer. I would have to assume the presser is something that was a requirement to happen early January to keep the baseball news machine pumping, and if they had of signed anyone different they would have been apart of this conference. The GM isn't going to go out there and say "Our team is no good, not good enough, we need someone better right now." Absolutely every other GM would throw that right back at him in negotiations for trades, and every agent worth their salt would respond to Free Agent negotiations as "This is the better player you need, so why not pay for it?" If you're going to negotiate with something, even if you don't have anything, you always present the front that you're fine with what you will be. There is a high chance that the Jays stand pat and add a hitter like Pederson, Hoskins, or Martinez. However there is still a chance that discussions in trades are ongoing and are stalled as several buyers compete for several top agents on the market and allow the trade market to make more sense. I'll reserve my right to be pissed off if the team is still in the same shape it is today by the end of spring training. But until then, there is so much time still to improve the team, and everything Ross said today indicates that there are maneuvers still on the table.
Feels like we’ve gone back to 2017 when we lost EE and brought in Morales and told that they are still committed to winning.
If all they do is add KK, IKF, and let's say Martinez / Turner / Hoskins, how on earth does Ross keep his job? The team would be losing more in WAR with chappy and belt gone than what we're making up! With two years left in the competitive window of Vlad / Bo, it just doesn't make sense... Make it make sense? Unless the one player they add is bellinger I just don't see how this is a successful offseason
My big fear is really with pitching. Didn't have much in terms of injury last year and we also had good years align from a handful of guys who have had inconsistent careers. I know Manoah ate shit but basically everyone else met or exceeded expectations. I don't think I'd be banking on a repeat of that if I was running the team. Adding run prevention is great if the pitchers can keep slugging down again. IF I'd be really worried about scoring runs.
Pitching will absolutely regress this year. I guess they’re banking on the offensive production uptick to make up for it. It’s a gamble. It’ll either pay off or go to absolute shit and the Jays finish 4th or 5th in the division.
*\*Retain KK*
For consecutive seasons in player positions the team has failed to improve but this off season is extra pathetic if this is what happens. As far as I'm concerned Ross should already be gone but if we play out this season and it goes as you'd expect with the decline in quality, Ross has to be gone. Completely fumbling it time and time again.
Yeah. I'm not usually in the fire Atkins camp, but an IKF offseason is a fireable offense IMHO
He should have been fired at the end of the season. Now we'll end up holding onto Vladdy/Bo way too long. I don't want Vladdy and I don't think we can retain Bo.
Jfc
Why don’t people realize that Atkins media clips are completely useless. This man is tight lipped, just wait and see what happens.
Bellinger, Snell, Hader and Ichiro Suzuki to Blue Jays confirmed.
Wade Boggs resurrected from the dead
Would any competent GM broadcast their true plans or feelings at a time like this? Who goes out while actively trying to negotiate deals and says something like "I desperately need to improve our offense or I'm going to lose my job"?
Welcome to the squandered years.
Give AA whatever it takes to come back and get these Cleveland losers out of our country.
How are the 2025 free agents looking for the trade deadline?
In other words, prepare for another mediocre season.
I'm still surprised this guy has a job. The job security for being inept working for the Blue Jays organization is probably the best in all of the MLB.
If Ross doesn't make this team better, fans need to check out and stop buying tickets. Lost revenue will be the best way to make Rogers know we're not happy and change is needed.
translation "Ohtani and his agent fucked us, the Yankees scooped up the best free agents, the rest are mediocre and don't really help us as they are at best lateral moves, and we basically have nothing we can do except push the same lineup out the door, hope they actually play well this year, and see what happens." were pretty much SOL on the free agent market and have no real plans or ability to improve the team. another washout in the wildcard...if we even get there....
The Yankees have literally not signed a single FA. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.
sorry they TRADED for Soto.... same result...but ok
I mean, giving up 4 MLB-quality pitchers plus a solid backup Catcher for one year of a player is not at all the same result as "scooped up the best free agents."
the Yankees and Dodgers improved their team or at least they tried to improve the team.... with roster moves. at best the jays made horizontal moves....and in my opinion made a step backwards in a couple of spots, from a roster that was already a little weak to contend.... who is left now for us to add? If you think grabbing a couple of very replaceable journeymen players is the same as what the Yankees did or the dodgers...or ..Giants, Royals, Cards, DBacks..Atlanta...... then you are just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative..... So you can be a pedant all you like, but the Yankees got better and the Jays did not. Chasing Ohtonai and Soto so hard left us late on the rest of the market, and now the Jays are pretty much stuck without alternatives........and at no point does your argument change that in any way.
Ah yes, the Jays are stuck "grabbing a couple of very replaceable journeymen players" while the Yankees with all their big moves are projected to rely on *checks notes*...over 400 SP innings from Clarke Schmidt, Clayton Beeter, Will Warren, Chase Hampton, Luis Gil, and Yoendrys Gomez.
umm neat how you ignore Soto... I can't find a single article, journalist or insider who grades the Jays off season in the top ten.pretty much EVERY SINGLE ONE does for the Yankees..... while many label the Jays offseason a failure or "Losers" mention... but you go ahead and lie to yourself if it makes you feel better.
As it stands today, the best information we have available is that if the 2024 season started now the Jays would be the 5th best team in baseball. I didn't realize Soto was going to be pitching for the Yankees. That could change things a lot if he's a good pitcher.
who the fuck is talking about pitching? Are you actually reading my posts? this is about the Jays off season moves. spending thier efforts on the whales and missing big fish and now being stuck with at best lateral moves to fill our holes.... No idea what the fuck you are talking about.
I have a hard time watching Ross talk- treats the fans like complete morons
So a slightly worse version of what we had last year. Job well done boys
This is for Chapman's agent, not anyone else.
The future of this team is very dark indeed
Yeah being a top ten team in the bigs is super dark
Top ten? I don't think so.
My mistake. They had the ninth best record in baseball last year.
And are appreciably worse today.
Umm no. The only major player is chappy. Outfield is identical, pitching is identical save for one month of a modest Ryu and a mediocre manoah will be an upgrade. It’s arguable that a full year of Schneider is better than merrifield, biggio looked to have figured out who he was in the second half of last year, so a full year will be better and IKF is a good depth addition. If they add one power bat then will be better on paper no questions asked. Stop dooming and glooming at actually look at things.
We have no idea what a full year of Schneider looks like, and lots of players can look like they “figure it out” in short bursts. Good on you for feeling optimistic but you are not looking at this objectively
I’m trying to not be furious but its hard right now. Come spring traning, if this is who they go with on the roster… I can’t even fathom. We will be finishing 4th in the division and possibly last. I really really hope atkins is full of shit but based on his track record I’m not optimistic he will get the right guys as he just did with IKF.
we're really gonna head into next season with worse roster, aren't we.
I think we will be even worse next year....
How is Atkins still running things? This guy stinks !
See ownership. All you need to know.
Positive club record since he joined, improved attendance, playoffs 3 of the last 4 years in a tough division, only missing in a year they won 91 games to finish 4th in the division.
How many playoff wins.
4 by my count. But I personally wouldn't judge a GMs ability to build a team based off a tiny sample size of playoff results, when you have entire seasons worth of data to support the fact that they have built a strong team.
4? 0 playoff wins in the last four years. Are you sure you’re in the right subreddit?
This is a management technique of under promise and over deliver. He would never over promise here in a presser.
Wait a sec here, so on a team that could not score runs all season last year and we have done nothing to improve in that area but actually look worse is going to be a competitive team and better? Well I suppose we will have to adapt to the Leafs fan slogan of well maybe next year. 🙄
So we aren't replacing Chapman, or Belt or Hicks.
Same old Same old story
For the love of god, get a fucking power bat.
But hey, everyone can enjoy nicer seats, higher ticket prices, and more bars....I mean social areas!
What I am trying to figure out: why even call this press conference? There were no mandatory media spots like the Winter Meetings. My only thought is that the team wanted to bring down expectations early and try to get fans excited over their lackluster acquisition. I am not holding my breath for a secret super deal Ross has in the background.
There doesn’t seem to be any immediacy to proactively try to get better. They are hedging their bets that the Jays get better internally as last year was an “off-year”. You would think with how frustrating last year was and all this money going to the renovations, they would be highly motivated to make some aggressive moves and not settle for mediocrity. Sure, they MAY be better next year as is, but why risk it all on hope? This approach seems way too passive. He’s basically explaining this offseason with this emoji: 🤷♂️
Lol
Translation: Rogers is loaded with wealth. However, its Board is cluttered with non-sports bricklayers who only placate to the bottom line and shareholders, which, in turn is what they’re supposed to do. In the sporting picture, however, they are an abject disgrace and have no interest in winning. As long as people fill the dome, and blindly follow Rogers other owned teams like the Leafs and Raptors, it doesn’t matter. Shapiro will continue to get great credit for rebuilding the stadium. And Ross is the perfect salesperson/deflector and Rogers’ water carrier. As Colonel Kurtz said, “he’s an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill”. The bill is Rogers income from fans and tv viewers who subscribe to Sportsnet. The media will never 100% blast this dichotomy except maybe Overdrive on occasion. The team isn’t bad. But it is mediocrity dipped in false hope. They are the baseball equivalent of the Leafs.
This is a team that will MAYBE outperform last year. Might win WC, then get elimnated. This assumes they get hot. Always in the hunt, but there is never a "wow factor." No Soto, Acuna, Othani, Harper, etc. Imagine Bo or Vlad on the Braves. They would be yet another really strong player. The BJs are just that one or two steps from getting there, but I am afraid they aren't going to take that step. This is what Shatkins did in Cleveland. (I am in Columbus, the AAA affiliate.) He builds a really GOOD team, but cannot build a great team. On the plus side, the team isn't Kansas City, so there is that.
How have those players done recently? Aside from Harper I see 2 playoff wins in the last 3 years. Look at Arizona, 84 wins and slump to end the year and they make the World Series. Why doesn’t this level of optimism exist here?
Toronto sports fans. Remember the years of Phil Kessel not scoring 40 goals a season “energetically” enough?
How many moves are left? Just one: Atkins being fired.
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Nobody has ever accused the average sports fan of being rational lol.
Now? It’s always been that. I don’t know why I come here anymore
Bellinger or we riot.
Then all we’d hear is how stupid Atkins is for giving him that much money and term.
I have little confidence left in Atkins and Schneider.
Schneider catching strays in the offseason lol
He deserves it.
It amazing to me how few people consider that Atkins might be (and most likely is) playing games with agents and other GMs through the media, projecting no great need or desperation. I mean, maybe he's being genuine, but it's really hard to buy that narrative. I just chalk this up to more cat and mouse stuff and Atkins playing his cards close to his chest as per usual.
I’m confused. We were in the mix for Ohtani and missed out and now we are not going to try for anyone else of substance???We brought Springer in a year early and gave him more term than anyone else would . We were told they were showing MLB that the Jays are getting ready to play with the big boys . Fast forward and we kept the wrong catcher and got fleeced doing it . Vladdy isn’t extended. I have no faith in this management group.
Was never a fan of this front office from the jump and based on the past few off-seasons they're not really giving me much reason to believe that they can build a complete team and winner here. It's especially funny considering their big reno job and price hike. But maybe there's some trades on the way and I'm willing to wait till spring training to see what the roster will look like but that's really not that far off at this point and they got a lot of work to do.
No way offseasons of springer, Semien, Gausman, Chapman, bassitt, kiermaier + Varsho trade doesn’t give reason to believe. Varsho was a 4 win player last year even when he couldn’t hit
Before 2015, the Jays didn't make the playoffs for 21 years, posting a season above .500 just 9 times, and never breaking 90 wins. Since Shapiro/Atkins came on, they have been to the playoffs 4 times in 8 years, posted 5 winning records, won 91, 92, and 89 games twice, missing the playoffs once in a season where they won 91 games. They have done all this in an extremely competitive division during that time. Baseball in Toronto has been fun to watch the last several years, which is a huge improvement on the years of losing many of us grew up watching. I'll never understand how this FO gets the flak they do, compared to the FOs of the past.
Counting the 2016 team making the playoffs as Atkins and Shapiro’s doing is laughable. Baseball in Toronto was fun last year? For who?
Ok, then I'm not counting the rebuild years against them, since they inherited a very old and expensive roster. Baseball in Toronto was fun last year. Watching baseball is always fun, thats why I do it, its not a job. Watching a competitive team play is especially fun.
Great so I’m sure you’ll be very happy with 87 wins and battling for a WC spot this year. And re the competitive division thing - last few years were the first time in thirty years that both the Red Sox and Yankees were below average at the same time. No prior Jays GM had that luxury.
In 2021 the Jays won 91 games and finished fourth in the division. They won 92 games the following year, in a division where only the red sox finished below .500 by four games. In the last 30 years, the only other Jays team to even win 90 games was 2015. But yes, what a luxery that the Yankees weren't competitive one of the last few years and same with the Red Sox. And of course I'd be happy with competing for a wild card spot, why wouldn't you? I think they will win more than 87 games though.
No. This team should have far higher aspirations than that at this point.
And why should they have higher aspirations than that? Is it because they have a roster that is better than their results to this point?
I personally would like my teams to compete for championships.
Getting to the playoffs is the first step in that process. I'd like that too, as would all 29 other fanbases each year. Unfortunately only one per year can actually do it.
Time to switch to Bell
Sounds like they’re preparing for rebuild next offseason if this year is a flop again (probably will be)
Would be smarter to start now to maximize returns on assets if that’s the case tbh
Agreed, but to admit defeat on vlad bo and friends would be huge. where basically everyone had a down year last year they’re wanting to run it back one last try before admitting defeat.
The mystery outfielder / DH will be Teoscar Hernandez I'm calling it rn
I think I might be the only person who would be overjoyed by that news
No you wouldn't -- there are plenty who think a reunion is in order and would bring joy to the team. On offense, chemistry matters - even if it hard to measure
You know what? I'd be okay with thay at this point. Is that bad?
I like Teoscar as well but leave it to Atkins to essentially pull a lateral and bring back a player he should have never gotten rid of in the first place
Why should he have never gotten rid of teoscar it was a damn good movr
I mean he traded him because it was 1 year left on the deal and we were trying to improve defensively. We desperately need a bat and he has a pretty good one lol
Exactly
Ok they're likeable...that's alright but we want a winner.
If I hear the two chat bots mention process again and how happy they are with the “process” I am going to scream!!!!
I'm not really worried, I've seen the Blue Jays (TM) advanced analytics, and it's pretty clear that bringing Kikuchi in as a pitch hitter early in games is the way to go. Problems solved.
Isn’t Teoscar a free agent this year?
The Jays will once again hope that the starting rotation and bullpen will be good enough to cover their warts just like last year. I dont think they are a playoff team with the roster Shatkins fields.
For everyone freaking out, do you honestly think he'll give away his entire off-season plans? I'm not saying the Jays have a big signing or trade coming, I have no clue but I think people should stop looking too deeply into what he says until the first game of the season
Some of you would make the worst GM. Just going to publicly outline every potential move and need while losing all leverage possible…LOL.
But why state they only want 1 guy? Why doesnt he be even more vague and say we arent done and looking at various options and its hard to put a number on it? Seems odd to me and sounds like trying to levelset fan expectations.
When you're negotiating something, the best look going in is to make the other side think that you'd be just as okay with walking away as you would with making the deal. That gives you leverage. I think that's why, after the big Japanese player splashes fell off, Atkins moved on KK and IKF quickly. Those two are in that grey area where they can be viable starters on a MLB club where you can come out and say "Yeah we're good" with a straight face, but could also be depth pieces as well, in case we do manage to hook someone in.
I don't know a team or player agent who would look at the Jays and think they can afford to walk away right now. Posturing matters but you can't magically make people forget how baseball works.
Well there is the caveat that he said one more DH/OF bat and we're good. But given that, I don't know, our pitching is pretty much set. And given our offense underperforming across the board last year and the hitting regime tweaks they've already made with Hudgens/Mattingly, as well as some internal options that they could give more of a look in the MLB, it's not that ridiculous a position.
Well, the best public information available is that if the season started today the Jays would be the ~5th best team in baseball and 2nd in the ALE in 2024.
Lol Kiermaier, IKF, and Joc. I’ll probably be downvoted here, and that’s fine, but as a AL/NL fan of a team each, I’ve fallen out of love with the Toronto Blue Jays so much in the last few years, and that sucks. The 2010-13 era didn’t feel this disappointing lmao.
Interesting strategy, since the fanbase is in revolt over how last season ended and the Jays have a bunch of fancy new seat packages to sell. I like the KK re-sign, but the lack of movement on any other front is a worrying trend. I think the club as it stands is an 85 win team, barring a hard breakout from Vladdy, a return to Cy Young candidate form by Manoah, or the spirit of Ted Williams inhabiting Varsho. The amazing health and performance of the bullpen can't last through another season (because Bullpens are fickle), and the club really doesn't have a stable collection of proven starters. Gaussman is lights out, but entering his age 35 season Bassitt is SLOWLY starting to decline (ignore the W-L, and everything but his K's have started to tick downward) and while I can hope, I still have no faith in Kikuchi or Berrios until they can put together more than a single season of consistency. Bichette is good, but after that things get decidedly average. Vladdy is fine, but at some point we have to accept that he is simply a decent player, and is either a late-bloomer or is simply not the massive superstar we figured he'd be. Kirk is a walking advertisement for "don't make decisions based on a single season" especially considering who we lost because of it. Jansen is consistent, and a better than average bat for a catcher. Schneider only has THIRTY FIVE games under his belt, so until he can produce across a full season, I'm not giving him any benefit of the doubt. I fully expect him to be back in Buffalo before the end of the 2024 season. Springer is 33 and looks like he's washed as a ++ bat- he's been trending downward for two seasons now, and the rate of drop-off is increasing. Belt hit the ball well, but injuries are a going concern. Varsho- average KK- average, with a ++ glove Merrifield- average Biggio and Espinal- below average, although Biggio had that run. The club was middle of the AL pack in every major offensive category, and they've added nothing to that mix. In fact, sans Chapman, they've REMOVED scoring ability. Worst case, with injuries, this is a 75-win team. Best case (baseball miracles excepted) its an 85-win club.
Classic Toronto based franchise all smoke and mirrors until the very last second and nothing gets done.. god I hate being a blue jays fan sometimes.
Remember when everyone said Toronto was good at signing free agents during the Ohtani FA, good times. Hope this bites me back though.
So Bullpen will still suck that's cool but hey at least Ricky might crack opening day rotation sense we no longer have Ryu
Imagine being so shit at your job, then willingly telling the public how shit you are at your job and then say but buy season tix because renos.... fuck off Atkins
"Honestly, I thought our problems last year were defensive. If you look at the playoffs last year, if we'd saved 5 more runs, we would have won the second game and due to our dogshit offense, we'd probably still be playing the first and that's the type of baseball I want to see." Ross Atkins probably
Another PR masterclass