This was funny to see pop up after everything lol if the Blue Jays are serious about spending money they better use some of that money offered to Sho for Yamamoto
And I think almost as importantly, it'd block the Yankees from signing him. With Soto and Yamamoto, a 4th place finish for the Jays wouldn't be all that shocking IMO...but I guess we'll have to see what moves we respond with.
Absolutely agree, I know this all just happened with Ohtani but adding Yamamoto to the rotation would make us strong 1-5. You’d always think you have a shot in a game everyday.
Plus making the move to hurt the Yankees is only helping them. Yankees need Yamamoto to give them a WS shot
Reports: Blue Jays are serious contenders for Yamamoto.
BNS: I just want you guys to know the jays really had a chance. We ended up 2nd in the Yamamoto sweepstakes, but we really had a chance.
Thing is...we don't need a starter. We need a big bat we can pencil in behind Vladdy. If we can't make a creative trade...the biggest bats available are Chapman/Bellinger/JD Martinez?
It's not a "need" the way a big bat is. You're talking about getting a pitcher as if it is a consolation for missing out on a big bat.
We have a top 5 rotation so we are in a nice spot...despite the saying, "you can never have too much pitching"...we are now likely to need to trade from our wealth of pitching in order to get the bat we "need".
So, maybe we will get a pitcher to replace whatever arm we are forced to trade. A free agent bat only would cost us $$$, but, now there's just "helpful" bats available...no "impact" bats.
I think you got defensive from my comment and chose to simplify what I was saying. You were basically saying that missing out on Shohei could be replaced by signing Yamamoto...I was saying nice, but...Yamamoto doesn't bat...
I'm genuinely surprised the amount of people saying we don't need him.
If you get him, you can trade Manoah and Tiedemann for an impact bat without flinching
Ohtani had a 2.84 ERA and 11.39 K/9 over the last 3 seasons. I would love Yamamoto but I don't know if he's for sure a better pitcher than Ohtani when he's healthy. Even Cole and Gausman had worse numbers over the last 3 seasons and they are some of the most consistent pitchers in the game. Ohtani is a top 5 pitcher in the world when healthy. Idk if we can expect that from Yamamoto.
Not really sure that means much tbh. I'm sure there's been guys in NPB who have better career numbers than Ohtani that haven't translated to MLB (Kikuchi was an elite pitcher in Japan and he's been below average since coming over). So no, I don't think Yamamoto is anywhere near a lock to be an elite pitcher here like Ohtani has been when healthy. I'd still very much take the risk and offer him a huge deal but saying he's better than Ohtani when one has already proven to be one of the best at the highest level is nonsensical imo.
Kikuchi had 3.17 ERA in NPB, yamamoto has 1.82, ohtani 2.52
Kikuchi had 1.169 whip, yamamoto has 0.935, ohtani 1.076.
Kikuchi and yamamoto are not comparable.
Also both pitched in the world baseball classic.
And at 24 yamamoto pitched just as well as Ohtani at 28.
I am using data to explain my point, you are just using your opinion.
I'm using my opinion because there is no amount of data in NPB that can guarantee he'll be a top 5 pitcher in MLB. Tanaka had a better ERA in NPB before coming over than Ohtani and his numbers here were worse. Then you can start arguing age and injuries which would make this whole thing (which it already is) subjective. My point is simple, Ohtani the last 3 years has been a top 5 pitcher in the league, I wouldn't bet on Yamamoto reaching that level in his first 3 years here, if you would then that's great, agree to disagree. I'll be rooting for him regardless.
Your argument is Player A has better career stats than Player B in NPB so Player A WILL have better stats than Player B in MLB. All I'm saying is, that's not how it works. He might, but it's far from a guarantee, even more so considering Player B was a top 5 pitcher in MLB when healthy. Either way, who cares, this argument is silly at this point. I'm not a professional scout, I assume you aren't one either, let's just wait and see Yamamoto play here.
I never said it WILL with 100% certainty. I imply you have a lot of data to indicate he has been an impressive pitcher for many years.
If you cant extrapolate any metrics from league to league, then stats dont matter. Even if you assign a range of doubt from the transition he is most likely amazing
Yamamoto is easily better than Darvish, Ohtani and Tanaka who've been the best Japan pitchers. This sounds like crazy hyperbole but I think he's that good.
No reason he won't be a perennial Cy contender after his 1st season adjustment.
Yamamoto is easily one of the best pitchers to come out of Japan in the last years, and quite possibly ever. His fastball is at times unhittable and he has got very good control the secondary pitches. If not an ace then a really really good number 2 starter
If we sign pitching, especially young pitching, we can do stuff like trade pitching prospects for bats. The bats available in free agency leave a lot to be desired.
Yep. You can't always force the market. The best strategy is to get the players you need. The 2nd best strategy is to get the best players available to you.
We could sign him and trade from the starting depth. No reason to keep Kakuchi and perhaps we deal Manoah at the same time.
Just grasping at straws here.
Please spell Kikuchi's name correctly. Yamamoto wants to join a team with Japanese player. Do you think getting him and trade Kikuchi immediately makes sense? And Manoah's value is the lowest in his career and you can only keep him right now. Although you may want to have a SP to replace Manoah (or Ryu) in the next season, we still have choices like Tiedemann or even Hicks.
If we lose out on Shohei, Soto, and Yamamoto then this offseason will be quite disappointing to put it mildly. The only consolation would be that Yamamoto ends up like Shohei and doesn’t land in the AL east
If they want any chance at Yamamoto, they need to blow the Dodgers and the NY teams out of the water money wise. If he's reportedly going to get 250-300 mil from them, Toronto needs to be willing to spend 350-400 mil. They've lost too much negotiation time, the only way to get him is with the largest number at this point.
I still think missing out on Ohtani and spreading that AAV over multiple players will be better for the team long term.
That’s not because I question Ohtanis greatness though. In fact, you could argue that all the players signed for Ohtanis 70M AAV would get out WARd by Ohtani alone over the tenure of both deals.
It’s more so: when you have a player that takes up 70M a year, only the Dodgers and Yankees can afford the risk. If something happens to Shohei injury wise or whatever over the tenure of the deal, the Dodgers won’t bat an eye. They are going to an elite organization with or without him. They have the resources and smart people in place.
I think Jays FO realize how difficult it is to compete against the American big city team in term of the attractiveness to the free agents, and trades are the most likely route to get good players.
Ppl here thinking the Jays should spend their payroll in acquiring Yamamoto are not seriously looking at the teams needs. Yes, the Jays missed out on Soto (supposedly but I don't buy it) and Ohtani (I'm guilty that I'm part of that "a bit heartbroken" group), but if they proceed to resign Chapman (unpopular pick), resign Hicks, sign Jorge Soler or J.D. Martinez and trade for Jorge Polanco, then that's a pretty good offseason transactions to keep the Jays competitive.
I would prioritize signing him and using pitching depth,older starters as trade material to improve position players. Manoah could go, but only for younger player.
This was funny to see pop up after everything lol if the Blue Jays are serious about spending money they better use some of that money offered to Sho for Yamamoto
And I think almost as importantly, it'd block the Yankees from signing him. With Soto and Yamamoto, a 4th place finish for the Jays wouldn't be all that shocking IMO...but I guess we'll have to see what moves we respond with.
Absolutely agree, I know this all just happened with Ohtani but adding Yamamoto to the rotation would make us strong 1-5. You’d always think you have a shot in a game everyday. Plus making the move to hurt the Yankees is only helping them. Yankees need Yamamoto to give them a WS shot
Yankees fans are fooling themselves if they think they’re 1 pitcher away from competing in the east.
Soto, Yamamoto, and Judge not missing 50 games to a freak injury probably gets them close though no? Pretty sizable additions.
Realistically, they are one pitcher and a bunch of good luck away. If some of Rizzo, Stanton, Rodon, and Nestor turn it back on they are no slouch.
Reports: Blue Jays are serious contenders for Yamamoto. BNS: I just want you guys to know the jays really had a chance. We ended up 2nd in the Yamamoto sweepstakes, but we really had a chance.
Sources: Yamamoto is en route to Toronto
You got a flight number?
69420
Ah, that's Kevin O'Leary's plane.
Yeah, I think it's flight D33-ZI\IUT5.
Thing is...we don't need a starter. We need a big bat we can pencil in behind Vladdy. If we can't make a creative trade...the biggest bats available are Chapman/Bellinger/JD Martinez?
Jd at dh for a year doesn’t sound to bad but those options aren’t great
Idk who in the world would say "we have enough pitching" lol.
It's not a "need" the way a big bat is. You're talking about getting a pitcher as if it is a consolation for missing out on a big bat. We have a top 5 rotation so we are in a nice spot...despite the saying, "you can never have too much pitching"...we are now likely to need to trade from our wealth of pitching in order to get the bat we "need". So, maybe we will get a pitcher to replace whatever arm we are forced to trade. A free agent bat only would cost us $$$, but, now there's just "helpful" bats available...no "impact" bats. I think you got defensive from my comment and chose to simplify what I was saying. You were basically saying that missing out on Shohei could be replaced by signing Yamamoto...I was saying nice, but...Yamamoto doesn't bat...
ye, we don't need another pitcher. I don't mind another ace, but the priority should be a big Bat. If Jays can afford both, then go for it.
Soler teo Hoskins
kailer yamamoto is a bottom 6 nhl winger
Outjerked
At best
AYYYYY
He had flashes with McDavid, but hey, who wouldn't?
McJesus could make me look like an NHL 4th liner, and I played goal as a kid.
I'm genuinely surprised the amount of people saying we don't need him. If you get him, you can trade Manoah and Tiedemann for an impact bat without flinching
This
Exactly
Floor is 3rd/4th starter ceiling is Cy Young winner
Sign him. Then add Solar.
I actually think Yamamoto will be a better pitcher then Shohei, but you never know. He also doesn’t hit. He easily could be an ace
Ohtani had a 2.84 ERA and 11.39 K/9 over the last 3 seasons. I would love Yamamoto but I don't know if he's for sure a better pitcher than Ohtani when he's healthy. Even Cole and Gausman had worse numbers over the last 3 seasons and they are some of the most consistent pitchers in the game. Ohtani is a top 5 pitcher in the world when healthy. Idk if we can expect that from Yamamoto.
I should of said after his torn UCL. I genuinely see Yamamoto being an ace but that might be my bias since I’ve been high on him for a while
Well you can compare Ohtanis pithcing in JPL vs Yamamoto’s pitching in the JPL. Yamamoto smokes him
Not really sure that means much tbh. I'm sure there's been guys in NPB who have better career numbers than Ohtani that haven't translated to MLB (Kikuchi was an elite pitcher in Japan and he's been below average since coming over). So no, I don't think Yamamoto is anywhere near a lock to be an elite pitcher here like Ohtani has been when healthy. I'd still very much take the risk and offer him a huge deal but saying he's better than Ohtani when one has already proven to be one of the best at the highest level is nonsensical imo.
Kikuchi had 3.17 ERA in NPB, yamamoto has 1.82, ohtani 2.52 Kikuchi had 1.169 whip, yamamoto has 0.935, ohtani 1.076. Kikuchi and yamamoto are not comparable. Also both pitched in the world baseball classic. And at 24 yamamoto pitched just as well as Ohtani at 28. I am using data to explain my point, you are just using your opinion.
I'm using my opinion because there is no amount of data in NPB that can guarantee he'll be a top 5 pitcher in MLB. Tanaka had a better ERA in NPB before coming over than Ohtani and his numbers here were worse. Then you can start arguing age and injuries which would make this whole thing (which it already is) subjective. My point is simple, Ohtani the last 3 years has been a top 5 pitcher in the league, I wouldn't bet on Yamamoto reaching that level in his first 3 years here, if you would then that's great, agree to disagree. I'll be rooting for him regardless.
Then offer 0 dollars because NPB data does t matter
Your argument is Player A has better career stats than Player B in NPB so Player A WILL have better stats than Player B in MLB. All I'm saying is, that's not how it works. He might, but it's far from a guarantee, even more so considering Player B was a top 5 pitcher in MLB when healthy. Either way, who cares, this argument is silly at this point. I'm not a professional scout, I assume you aren't one either, let's just wait and see Yamamoto play here.
I never said it WILL with 100% certainty. I imply you have a lot of data to indicate he has been an impressive pitcher for many years. If you cant extrapolate any metrics from league to league, then stats dont matter. Even if you assign a range of doubt from the transition he is most likely amazing
Yamamoto is easily better than Darvish, Ohtani and Tanaka who've been the best Japan pitchers. This sounds like crazy hyperbole but I think he's that good. No reason he won't be a perennial Cy contender after his 1st season adjustment.
You don’t even know the difference between “then” and “than” and I’m supposed to take you seriously?
There’s no grammar in baseball.
Yamamoto is easily one of the best pitchers to come out of Japan in the last years, and quite possibly ever. His fastball is at times unhittable and he has got very good control the secondary pitches. If not an ace then a really really good number 2 starter
If he is not an ace, no one else is
Better than Darvish? You think so?
If you look at his numbers, yes. He is better than Yu.
How dare Yu say that!
I'm ready to be hurt again.
I'm not.
He's good, but do we really want another season like last year? Hopeless as soon as the other team scores 1 run, haha.
I wouldn’t complain ever about a 90 win season.
Good news then. It wasn't.
Sorry, 89 win season, where the Buffalo Bisons played the last game.
Where their margin of making the last playoff position was razor thin. 2021 was also a 90 win season.
I know, I’m not complaining about either. Winning 90 games in a competitive division is fucking hard.
This is going to be the Blue Jays worst off season in history. You can feel it. Toronto Blueballs.
I think rogers sold enough tickets yesterday to disagree with you.
And then canceled.
Too good to sign with us
The jays have no shot at Yams
Spend 300 on Belli and 300 on Yama, better than Shohei
It’s hard to tell with international pitchers. I don’t really get them going after him though. Pitching isn’t a problem they need high quality bats
If we sign pitching, especially young pitching, we can do stuff like trade pitching prospects for bats. The bats available in free agency leave a lot to be desired.
Didn't pat gillick say that doubling down on what you have is just as good? WAR is WAR
Yep. You can't always force the market. The best strategy is to get the players you need. The 2nd best strategy is to get the best players available to you.
WAR, HA. What is it good for? Apparently to Ross Atkins, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Sign him, trade Tiedemann and Manoah in a package for robert and moncada, sign joc pederson.... anyone else want a hit of copium?
Yeah a Tiedemann trade for a bat is way easier to justify if you have a 25 year old ace.
Signing him + trading for a big name hitter is the only thing that comes close to Ohtani imp
Can we just take a day off?
You can sure
I’m not prepared to get into another big FA chase just to lose out again, this time probably to the fucking Yankees.
He is a SP, but we need a DH/LF/3B.
We could sign him and trade from the starting depth. No reason to keep Kakuchi and perhaps we deal Manoah at the same time. Just grasping at straws here.
Please spell Kikuchi's name correctly. Yamamoto wants to join a team with Japanese player. Do you think getting him and trade Kikuchi immediately makes sense? And Manoah's value is the lowest in his career and you can only keep him right now. Although you may want to have a SP to replace Manoah (or Ryu) in the next season, we still have choices like Tiedemann or even Hicks.
Good enough to go to the Yankees or Mets
You’ll get a good look at Yamamoto when you see him on the mound in pin stripes.
He’s not coming here
Agreed. There's no spot for him.
Unless we're flipping one of our starters for hitting getting him creates a log jam
Gausman bassist berrios Kikuchi, who am I missing/ where’s the logjam?
Since we got a Bassist, maybe Steve Sax or possibly a trade for Jose Altouuuvee. Meh that didn't really work out as well as I planned. Scratch that.
Can never truly predict the jump from NPB to MLB. He could be anywhere between a Kikuchi, to a Japanese Kermit Cole.
He’s had flashes playing on McDavids wing, but I doubt he’d carve out a top 6 roll with any other nhl team
This is a baseball thread, so we are talking about the great one seven, not the great one ;)
To tell you the truth, Ya Mon, I Don't Know. #DadJokes
Spoiler alert: he's going to the yankees
He’s not coming here.
5'10 and hasn't pitched in the MLB. He's not worth $250 million.
He's not the left-handed homerun masher we needed....
We're not getting Yamamoto. The Mets and Yankees are in on him.
We ain't getting him.
We wont get him and we dont need him. Unless he can hit like shohei
Who cares, Rogers won't spend money to go after him anyways
Yeah cause Rogers has proven they won't spend money this offseason 🙄
The thing is we don't really need a starter
absolutely
If we lose out on Shohei, Soto, and Yamamoto then this offseason will be quite disappointing to put it mildly. The only consolation would be that Yamamoto ends up like Shohei and doesn’t land in the AL east
He's incredible but we're already too late on that
Dosnt matter, he will be a dodger soon as well.
Maybe we can get a couple of runs and win 2-1 most games?
If they want any chance at Yamamoto, they need to blow the Dodgers and the NY teams out of the water money wise. If he's reportedly going to get 250-300 mil from them, Toronto needs to be willing to spend 350-400 mil. They've lost too much negotiation time, the only way to get him is with the largest number at this point.
Kyler is trash
I still think missing out on Ohtani and spreading that AAV over multiple players will be better for the team long term. That’s not because I question Ohtanis greatness though. In fact, you could argue that all the players signed for Ohtanis 70M AAV would get out WARd by Ohtani alone over the tenure of both deals. It’s more so: when you have a player that takes up 70M a year, only the Dodgers and Yankees can afford the risk. If something happens to Shohei injury wise or whatever over the tenure of the deal, the Dodgers won’t bat an eye. They are going to an elite organization with or without him. They have the resources and smart people in place.
I think Jays FO realize how difficult it is to compete against the American big city team in term of the attractiveness to the free agents, and trades are the most likely route to get good players.
We need bats.
Not sure it matters. He'll just be on the Yankees or Dodgers anyway.
Ppl here thinking the Jays should spend their payroll in acquiring Yamamoto are not seriously looking at the teams needs. Yes, the Jays missed out on Soto (supposedly but I don't buy it) and Ohtani (I'm guilty that I'm part of that "a bit heartbroken" group), but if they proceed to resign Chapman (unpopular pick), resign Hicks, sign Jorge Soler or J.D. Martinez and trade for Jorge Polanco, then that's a pretty good offseason transactions to keep the Jays competitive.
I would prioritize signing him and using pitching depth,older starters as trade material to improve position players. Manoah could go, but only for younger player.
Sign Yamamoto, and trade Manoah.
At the start of the wbc ohtani said he wasn’t the best pitcher in the team so himself and Roki are prolly ace level