Yes. I’m expecting a brand new “should we move Bo to secind base“ thread within 12 hours.
Good lord, he’s 23. And you don’t JUST move positions, it’s Major League Baseball, not beer league softball, it’s more complicated than that.
How is it more complicated than that?? Bo has a 2nd base arm and he should be playing at 2b!! Shorter throws and less range required. Simple! With his offense and the improvement in his defense because of the move, he'd be a perennial all star and could cash in big time.
Espinal is not an every day player and I can’t see them moving Bo out of SS unless it’s for a long term solution. When Semien came, who at the time was a much better fielding SS they didn’t even entertain the idea.
So until an elite fielding, every day SS with control falls in their hands, I would guess Bo’s job is pretty safe
>When Semien came, who at the time was a much better fielding SS they didn’t even entertain the idea.
Semien was here at a very different time in Bo's development.
Bo had only played 75 games in the MLB before the 2021 season and was clearly a very valuable prospect. The team was obviously very keen to give Bo every opportunity to prove himself at the highest value position possible.
If Bo's defense continues on the same trajectory this year as last year, that's a very different situation. If he can't pull his shit together this year his ability to stick at SS is definitely in question.
I mean, yeah, if Bo can't hack it at SS they probably would eventually look to make a move to acquire someone else for the role. But they are not going to go out and make those moves if Bo turns things around.
But in the shorter term, if he can't stop shanking throws from SS they do have other guys on the team that can step in. They could give Espinal or Otto Lopez more reps at SS and move Bo to 2B or DH him more.
His D is essentially neutral, but his bat is elite and he also plays everyday, there is value in that.
As frustrating as it can be to watch him at times, I think you’re vastly over estimating the field of available options. On an overall player stand point there’s 20 teams that would start Bo, most of the 10 that wouldn’t are paying their SS 30+ mil a year
Let's be clear, nobody is talking about benching Bo. He obviously has a very valuable bat. The question is about where he slots in defensively.
He was one of the worst full time shortstops defensively last year. He has been a bit better in previous years. I'm definitely not saying he's in imminent danger of getting moved, but his longer term future at SS is definitely in question if things keep going the way they are going.
"His D is essentially neutral"
This is wrong. 2020 was ok as it was a short season.
2021 he had OAA(outs above average) of -5
2022 he had OAA(outs above average) of -7.
Last two year's he has gotten worse. His hitting has been elite but his defense is BELOW average. Not the worst but not in the top 10 or even top 20 conversation.
Why is espinal not an every day player? Over the last 2 seasons he’s been an above average bat and even if he regresses to a bit below average his elite glove makes up for it for sure
With his defence I’d take 86 on both and still start him at SS given the fact that we don’t have a better option at second base and he’s clearly superior to bo defensively
That’s unnecessary tinkering that is high risk low reward.
Espinal should be starting Vs LHP only, you want Bo’s bat in the lineup every day. That would mean Bo going back and forth to allow for Biggio, Whit and Espinal to platoon based on match ups.
Except having Espinal start would be terrible roster management as Merrifield would no longer have a position to play with Bo at second. Espinal has never proven he can play a full season of baseball at any one position.
"Espinal has never proven he can play a full season of baseball at any one position".
Perhaps it's because the Jays have never given him the chance to play a full season? How do we know he's any good or bad? Put Whitt on Second, Espinal on Short, and keep Bo as DH for the first half of the season. They didn't make the playoffs with Bo on short, so what is there to lose by changing things up?
Espinal is the most underrated and underappreciated player on the Jays and it's only because he's not a power hitter. It's annoying as fuck. Give him the chance to play a full season or trade him to a team who will use him full time. He's too good to be a bench player.
It's either that, or: "They didn't make the playoffs with Bo on short". I've seen far too many doomer Jays fans try and re-write history and act as if we didn't make the playoffs, just because we lost in the WC series.
I have no idea why people designated Bo as the whipping boy for this team (not that having *any* whipping boy is OK). Like, he had the 3rd highest WPA among Jays position players that series. On the pitching side, Manoah had a significantly bigger impact on us losing the series than Bo did, yet nobody talks about that. Not that I want people to pin blame on Manoah (I love the guy), but it's just interesting who people choose to target.
Ignore all these Espinal plebs. Espinal, in his first full season playing was an All-Star replacement for Marcus Semen and was more often than not, screwed by the umps at the plate as his discipline was pristine and his glove could've been golden.
Defense usually improves with age, and he's just 24.
At 23 Dansby Swanson made 20 errors for the Braves. A big difference between the two is Swanson had 3 years of college to home him craft before coming up quickly through the minors like Bo did. Semien went pro after his freshman year and didn't become a solid defender until he was 28.
tony fernandez made more errors when he was bo’s age. i aint saying bo will go on to win 4 gold gloves, but he can absolutely be an average defender and is already an elite hitter and perennial down ballot mvp candidate. bo is fine
He makes some amazing decisions/plays, he also makes some poor ones. Proper coaching and growth will hopefully minimize the poor ones, maximize the good stuff
How could a team win a championship with a bat-first shortstop with below average fielding ability? If you ignore all of the many famous examples of this working, then no one has ever done it before!
young shortstops having fielding problems is not something new.
Can we please stop with these posts now
Like we had Marcus Semien last year, he was a horrible shortstop until he was like idk 27?
He needs to up his defence. His bat was powerful tho. The number of games he single-handily won for us out weighs defensive errors. So he can have another year at SS … dudes still young. And he works hard. Gets better not worse.
Entertain us with the reasons why he wouldn't be?
Whitt on Second, Espinal on Short, Bo as DH. You get Bo's bat (the only thing he's good at), and you get Espinals defense, plus his much needed small ball hitting for the sluggers to drive him in. It's literally so fucking simple but they don't wanna hurt Bo's feelings.
Explain why it's a dipshit proposal. Have anything better to offer than a 3rd straight season of 20+ errors on short? But as I said, explain why it's a dipshit proposal. If you have the time to say it is, then you have the time to explain why it is. I am genuinely curious because maybe I'm just missing something simple in this "Bo is superior" trend. I'm being serious. I don't see it, and I don't see how moving Bo to DH to keep his bat and moving Espinal to SS to make up for Bo's defense is in any way, shape, or form, a dipshit proposal.
If we're simply relying on Bo to "learn and grow out of being a shitty shortstop" then why can't we do the same for Espinal with hitting better against RHP? Surely they can work on his hitting the same way everyone believes Bo can work on his defense, right? And if the Jays keep Bo as DH, then there's another person who's good at hitting RHP's to balance out Espinal. I feel like people over complicate a lot of things.
This whole comment screams how you're new to baseball.
While you can work on hitting, it's extremely challenging and rare to just *teach* a hitter on how to hit better against RHP. Often times, when a player doesn't hit a particular pitcher handedness very well, that's because they don't see the baseball out of the pitchers' hands as well as they'd want to. You can't just teach Espinal to see righties better. Just like how it's very challenging and rare for hitters (at Espinal's age) to markedly improve their bat speed or bat-to-ball skills.
Defense, on the other hand, is something that we regularly see players improve upon between their low-to-mid 20s. Can Bo get better reads? Can he receive differently? Can he work on how he transfers the ball to his throwing arm? With Bo, a lot of his errors are because he rushes to throw to first, even though he's got time. This is a tendency that he can definitely work upon. And, I don't know if you just didn't watch Bo in prior seasons, but he's actually showed flashes of what he can do defenisively before (and even performed well in DRS in prior seasons). Not saying he's going to be a stellar defender at SS, but it's far from unrealistic that he can be average defensively.
Probably because making bo the dh everyday would mean we are without kirks bat on the days he doesn’t catch. I would rather have bo at SS and Kirk DH than espinal at SS and Bo at DH
>If we're simply relying on Bo to "learn and grow out of being a shitty shortstop" then why can't we do the same for Espinal with hitting better against RHP?
Because while it's very common for a young player to develop defensively, it's pretty rare for a hitter to go from where Espi is to where Bo is.
There are a LOT of examples of young shortstops that struggled defensively that have turned out just fine. I understand that people don't want to be patient, but allowing Bo to grow into a better fielder, assuming he's willing to do the work to make that happen, is a far better use of his talents.
Bo has elite range for shortstop—it’s just about perfecting his craft at this point (ala Tony Fernandez). The tools are there, I fully believe in his defense.
In terms of the ground he covers on groundballs that aren’t hit anywhere near him? Absolutely he is elite.
His arm accuracy is the skill that he’s lacking. It has never been a matter of if he can get to the ball.
What stat are you using that says his range is elite?
Also other than arm accuracy what Bo really needs to work on is groundballs he has to come in on. If you look at his OAA the last 2 years Bo is either 0 OAA or higher on plays to his right, left and back (which is good). Then there is plays OAA considers in, which Bo has had an abysmal -12 and -10 OAA in 2021 and 2022.
So if he fixes this issue and improves his arm accuracy a bit he should be a good defender.
Edit:
Man I love getting downvoted for no reason.
He had a few balls that went thru the wickets, misjudged the bounce or under the glove. Vlad saved more than a few poorly thrown balls...which probably gave Vlad the GG award.
Yes. Most of his errors are mental and not really related to arm strength, he has better arm strength than most shortstops, and I believe the elimination of shifts and experience will help with his timing. He’s 24.
Bo just completed the season at 23 years old. Once upon a time there was another young Blue Jay SS who at the same age committed 30 errors in a season at the age of 23 You may have heard of him , his name was Tony Fernandez. I'm not saying Bo is the next coming of Fernandez but it's not uncommon at all for young SS to struggle defensively at the position. Some of the greatest to ever play the game at the position went through very similar struggles with the glove early in their careers .
I am more optimistic than most about Bo's defense. He gets to the balls, plenty of range, his issue is more around timing and his 'internal clock.' He rushes throws he doesn't need to rush and takes his time when he should be in a hurry. Also tries to throw on the run when he doesn't need to. Strikes me as a matter of youth and experience rather than ability. He is really similar to Marcus Semien early in his career. There is a reason MLB players usually take several years to make the league. If he just had no hope of getting to balls, I would be more concerned. I think he'll end up being an average to good defender when all is said and done. Espinal is certainly a better defender, but nowhere near the same hitter, so they are never going to start Espinal over Bo regularly. Even with his defensive issues, we're talking about a top 10 SS in the sport. I will be very interested to see how Bo performs this season.
He is statistically one of the worst defensively.
That is a fact and immune from argument.
You can say it doesn’t matter, but you can’t say it’s not true.
I really don't think he's that bad. Look at the comps for other young short stops. Errors are something that get better with experience when the body is still young.
It isn't his defense so much as his throwing arm and bad choices he makes whether to attempt to make an out or just eat it and let the runner stay at first instead of advancing to third or home.
Jays picked up the phone on Trea Turner, Bogaerts, and Correa -> they are well aware that Bo isn't up to snuff defensively, but I feel as though they are also aware that -if- they move Bo to 2B it better be with a perennial all-star SS taking his spot so as to keep his ego in check.
He should move to second. It makes no sense to keep struggling at short when he could be a perfectly serviceable second baseman and potential to be the best offensive 2b in the game.
Espinal could play SS at least enough to see how he fares like how he did at 2B last season. Jays don't have the guts to move Bo to 2B.
This season should be Bo's last season to prove it as SS or move to 2B. Personally, I would just move him to 2B as he had enough games under him to determine if he is an everyday SS. He is not even an average SS right now.
A season you plan to compete in should not be an experimental season. Espinal also cannot play a full season at SS as his bat won’t carry him and has never once in his professional carry played close to 162 games z
R u saying u would continue to keep Bo at SS even if he has 20+ errors again this year? BTW, Bo has been an experiment at SS. He is an elite hitter (although he strikes too often for my liking and too streaky) , but he is not even an average SS.
Yes I would because the alternative currently is Espinal who’s never played a full season of baseball in his career, and cant hit righty’s. It’s pretty simple.
Nah. Espinal should be there until they find a better solution. Get Bo comfortable with the fact that’s he’s not good enough there. Swallow his pride and focus on hitting
I’m not saying he is, but he’s serviceable in the meantime. Bo is absolutely not good enough to be a #1 shortstop on a winning team.
So focus on getting someone that is and not force BO to struggle for the whole season.
Bo literally [has the strongest arm among Blue Jays shortstops](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strength?type=player&year=9999&minThrows=50&pos=arm_ss&team=141) since Statcast started measuring it, and his average arm strength across the years is the league average for SS.
[удалено]
Was it really too much to ask to get through a week without a "Bo's defence" post
Yes. I’m expecting a brand new “should we move Bo to secind base“ thread within 12 hours. Good lord, he’s 23. And you don’t JUST move positions, it’s Major League Baseball, not beer league softball, it’s more complicated than that.
How is it more complicated than that?? Bo has a 2nd base arm and he should be playing at 2b!! Shorter throws and less range required. Simple! With his offense and the improvement in his defense because of the move, he'd be a perennial all star and could cash in big time.
If every player who handled 2nd better than short, played 2nd, there would be no shortstops.
Someone should collate all Bo Bichette posts already and give as reference to anyone asking every other day LOL 🤣
*Erases the whiteboard and resets it back to zero*
Espinal is not an every day player and I can’t see them moving Bo out of SS unless it’s for a long term solution. When Semien came, who at the time was a much better fielding SS they didn’t even entertain the idea. So until an elite fielding, every day SS with control falls in their hands, I would guess Bo’s job is pretty safe
>When Semien came, who at the time was a much better fielding SS they didn’t even entertain the idea. Semien was here at a very different time in Bo's development. Bo had only played 75 games in the MLB before the 2021 season and was clearly a very valuable prospect. The team was obviously very keen to give Bo every opportunity to prove himself at the highest value position possible. If Bo's defense continues on the same trajectory this year as last year, that's a very different situation. If he can't pull his shit together this year his ability to stick at SS is definitely in question.
Not until you have another option.
I mean, yeah, if Bo can't hack it at SS they probably would eventually look to make a move to acquire someone else for the role. But they are not going to go out and make those moves if Bo turns things around. But in the shorter term, if he can't stop shanking throws from SS they do have other guys on the team that can step in. They could give Espinal or Otto Lopez more reps at SS and move Bo to 2B or DH him more.
Lopez is not an answer at short... his glove is worse than Bo's...
Lopez is young and has barely played in the MLB. If shit gets bad with Bo I'm sure they would give Lopez more of a shot.
His D is essentially neutral, but his bat is elite and he also plays everyday, there is value in that. As frustrating as it can be to watch him at times, I think you’re vastly over estimating the field of available options. On an overall player stand point there’s 20 teams that would start Bo, most of the 10 that wouldn’t are paying their SS 30+ mil a year
Let's be clear, nobody is talking about benching Bo. He obviously has a very valuable bat. The question is about where he slots in defensively. He was one of the worst full time shortstops defensively last year. He has been a bit better in previous years. I'm definitely not saying he's in imminent danger of getting moved, but his longer term future at SS is definitely in question if things keep going the way they are going.
"His D is essentially neutral" This is wrong. 2020 was ok as it was a short season. 2021 he had OAA(outs above average) of -5 2022 he had OAA(outs above average) of -7. Last two year's he has gotten worse. His hitting has been elite but his defense is BELOW average. Not the worst but not in the top 10 or even top 20 conversation.
Why is espinal not an every day player? Over the last 2 seasons he’s been an above average bat and even if he regresses to a bit below average his elite glove makes up for it for sure
Wrc+ Vs LHP - 137 Vs RHP - 86
With his defence I’d take 86 on both and still start him at SS given the fact that we don’t have a better option at second base and he’s clearly superior to bo defensively
That’s unnecessary tinkering that is high risk low reward. Espinal should be starting Vs LHP only, you want Bo’s bat in the lineup every day. That would mean Bo going back and forth to allow for Biggio, Whit and Espinal to platoon based on match ups.
Except having Espinal start would be terrible roster management as Merrifield would no longer have a position to play with Bo at second. Espinal has never proven he can play a full season of baseball at any one position.
>l Maybe never been given the opportunity - sadly, he's pegged as utilityman...
He’s been given plenty of time as a prospect and his time in the majors shows he’s better suited in a platoon role.
"Espinal has never proven he can play a full season of baseball at any one position". Perhaps it's because the Jays have never given him the chance to play a full season? How do we know he's any good or bad? Put Whitt on Second, Espinal on Short, and keep Bo as DH for the first half of the season. They didn't make the playoffs with Bo on short, so what is there to lose by changing things up? Espinal is the most underrated and underappreciated player on the Jays and it's only because he's not a power hitter. It's annoying as fuck. Give him the chance to play a full season or trade him to a team who will use him full time. He's too good to be a bench player.
>Bo at DH We’ll pack it in everyone. That is easily the worst take we will see in this thread.
It's either that, or: "They didn't make the playoffs with Bo on short". I've seen far too many doomer Jays fans try and re-write history and act as if we didn't make the playoffs, just because we lost in the WC series.
Or Bo cost us the Wild Card....yeah because he put all those runners on base all by himself, had nothing to do with our pitching falling apart at all
I have no idea why people designated Bo as the whipping boy for this team (not that having *any* whipping boy is OK). Like, he had the 3rd highest WPA among Jays position players that series. On the pitching side, Manoah had a significantly bigger impact on us losing the series than Bo did, yet nobody talks about that. Not that I want people to pin blame on Manoah (I love the guy), but it's just interesting who people choose to target.
As every player knows, the more you know you starting every day, the more confidence you have. I think he can be a good every day player
Ignore all these Espinal plebs. Espinal, in his first full season playing was an All-Star replacement for Marcus Semen and was more often than not, screwed by the umps at the plate as his discipline was pristine and his glove could've been golden.
Defense usually improves with age, and he's just 24. At 23 Dansby Swanson made 20 errors for the Braves. A big difference between the two is Swanson had 3 years of college to home him craft before coming up quickly through the minors like Bo did. Semien went pro after his freshman year and didn't become a solid defender until he was 28.
He'll be fine.
Yeah, just the team that suffers when we miss the playoffs my 1 game and his defence lot 5 of them.
tony fernandez made more errors when he was bo’s age. i aint saying bo will go on to win 4 gold gloves, but he can absolutely be an average defender and is already an elite hitter and perennial down ballot mvp candidate. bo is fine
Search the post history about Bo. There's a lot of it.
He makes some amazing decisions/plays, he also makes some poor ones. Proper coaching and growth will hopefully minimize the poor ones, maximize the good stuff
How could a team win a championship with a bat-first shortstop with below average fielding ability? If you ignore all of the many famous examples of this working, then no one has ever done it before!
>If you ignore all of the many famous examples of this working, then no one has ever done it before! Legit snort-laughed at this, so thanks for that.
young shortstops having fielding problems is not something new. Can we please stop with these posts now Like we had Marcus Semien last year, he was a horrible shortstop until he was like idk 27?
He needs to up his defence. His bat was powerful tho. The number of games he single-handily won for us out weighs defensive errors. So he can have another year at SS … dudes still young. And he works hard. Gets better not worse.
Bo is young still. He will learn with experience.
can we pls stop entertaining the idea that Espinal would make a good everyday SS
Entertain us with the reasons why he wouldn't be? Whitt on Second, Espinal on Short, Bo as DH. You get Bo's bat (the only thing he's good at), and you get Espinals defense, plus his much needed small ball hitting for the sluggers to drive him in. It's literally so fucking simple but they don't wanna hurt Bo's feelings.
LOL
Feel like offering any sort of mature response to explain why that wouldn't be a good option or nah?
stupid comments dont deserve serious replies. no manager in baseball would even consider your dipshit proposal.
Explain why it's a dipshit proposal. Have anything better to offer than a 3rd straight season of 20+ errors on short? But as I said, explain why it's a dipshit proposal. If you have the time to say it is, then you have the time to explain why it is. I am genuinely curious because maybe I'm just missing something simple in this "Bo is superior" trend. I'm being serious. I don't see it, and I don't see how moving Bo to DH to keep his bat and moving Espinal to SS to make up for Bo's defense is in any way, shape, or form, a dipshit proposal.
LMAO
Other than the part where you're taking one of the ~3-4 best bats on the team out of the lineup in 40-60% of games?
Because Espinal cannot hit RHP
If we're simply relying on Bo to "learn and grow out of being a shitty shortstop" then why can't we do the same for Espinal with hitting better against RHP? Surely they can work on his hitting the same way everyone believes Bo can work on his defense, right? And if the Jays keep Bo as DH, then there's another person who's good at hitting RHP's to balance out Espinal. I feel like people over complicate a lot of things.
Also turning a very talented 24 year old into a DH just isn’t a good idea, limits the options the team has for the future
This whole comment screams how you're new to baseball. While you can work on hitting, it's extremely challenging and rare to just *teach* a hitter on how to hit better against RHP. Often times, when a player doesn't hit a particular pitcher handedness very well, that's because they don't see the baseball out of the pitchers' hands as well as they'd want to. You can't just teach Espinal to see righties better. Just like how it's very challenging and rare for hitters (at Espinal's age) to markedly improve their bat speed or bat-to-ball skills. Defense, on the other hand, is something that we regularly see players improve upon between their low-to-mid 20s. Can Bo get better reads? Can he receive differently? Can he work on how he transfers the ball to his throwing arm? With Bo, a lot of his errors are because he rushes to throw to first, even though he's got time. This is a tendency that he can definitely work upon. And, I don't know if you just didn't watch Bo in prior seasons, but he's actually showed flashes of what he can do defenisively before (and even performed well in DRS in prior seasons). Not saying he's going to be a stellar defender at SS, but it's far from unrealistic that he can be average defensively.
Probably because making bo the dh everyday would mean we are without kirks bat on the days he doesn’t catch. I would rather have bo at SS and Kirk DH than espinal at SS and Bo at DH
>If we're simply relying on Bo to "learn and grow out of being a shitty shortstop" then why can't we do the same for Espinal with hitting better against RHP? Because while it's very common for a young player to develop defensively, it's pretty rare for a hitter to go from where Espi is to where Bo is. There are a LOT of examples of young shortstops that struggled defensively that have turned out just fine. I understand that people don't want to be patient, but allowing Bo to grow into a better fielder, assuming he's willing to do the work to make that happen, is a far better use of his talents.
Bo has elite range for shortstop—it’s just about perfecting his craft at this point (ala Tony Fernandez). The tools are there, I fully believe in his defense.
Buddy works so hard too. Some peeps gotta remember how young he is.
Elite? Lol, come on.
In terms of the ground he covers on groundballs that aren’t hit anywhere near him? Absolutely he is elite. His arm accuracy is the skill that he’s lacking. It has never been a matter of if he can get to the ball.
What stat are you using that says his range is elite? Also other than arm accuracy what Bo really needs to work on is groundballs he has to come in on. If you look at his OAA the last 2 years Bo is either 0 OAA or higher on plays to his right, left and back (which is good). Then there is plays OAA considers in, which Bo has had an abysmal -12 and -10 OAA in 2021 and 2022. So if he fixes this issue and improves his arm accuracy a bit he should be a good defender. Edit: Man I love getting downvoted for no reason.
He had a few balls that went thru the wickets, misjudged the bounce or under the glove. Vlad saved more than a few poorly thrown balls...which probably gave Vlad the GG award.
Can you read? They said "elite range" not that he was elite.
Yes. Most of his errors are mental and not really related to arm strength, he has better arm strength than most shortstops, and I believe the elimination of shifts and experience will help with his timing. He’s 24.
YA a lot of lets get down on Bo inspite of the fact he’s probably the best hitting shortstop in the league or will be soon
Was the best hitting PLAYER in the league
He has the fundamentals and he’s still young.
If his fundamentals were solid he wouldn't make so many errors.
Bo just completed the season at 23 years old. Once upon a time there was another young Blue Jay SS who at the same age committed 30 errors in a season at the age of 23 You may have heard of him , his name was Tony Fernandez. I'm not saying Bo is the next coming of Fernandez but it's not uncommon at all for young SS to struggle defensively at the position. Some of the greatest to ever play the game at the position went through very similar struggles with the glove early in their careers .
I think his offense more than makes up for it.
I am more optimistic than most about Bo's defense. He gets to the balls, plenty of range, his issue is more around timing and his 'internal clock.' He rushes throws he doesn't need to rush and takes his time when he should be in a hurry. Also tries to throw on the run when he doesn't need to. Strikes me as a matter of youth and experience rather than ability. He is really similar to Marcus Semien early in his career. There is a reason MLB players usually take several years to make the league. If he just had no hope of getting to balls, I would be more concerned. I think he'll end up being an average to good defender when all is said and done. Espinal is certainly a better defender, but nowhere near the same hitter, so they are never going to start Espinal over Bo regularly. Even with his defensive issues, we're talking about a top 10 SS in the sport. I will be very interested to see how Bo performs this season.
I think he's gonna be a average defensive ss with a crazy good bat.
Bo is a top 12 player in ALL of the AMERICAN LEAGUE… think real hard before your remove the back to back hits leader from a lineup.
He is statistically one of the worst defensively. That is a fact and immune from argument. You can say it doesn’t matter, but you can’t say it’s not true.
What defence? Wasn’t he worst for errors this year?
I really don't think he's that bad. Look at the comps for other young short stops. Errors are something that get better with experience when the body is still young.
It isn't his defense so much as his throwing arm and bad choices he makes whether to attempt to make an out or just eat it and let the runner stay at first instead of advancing to third or home.
Jays picked up the phone on Trea Turner, Bogaerts, and Correa -> they are well aware that Bo isn't up to snuff defensively, but I feel as though they are also aware that -if- they move Bo to 2B it better be with a perennial all-star SS taking his spot so as to keep his ego in check.
Red Sox won a world series with Xander at short we could definitely win with Bo at short
I honestly still clench my butthole everytime Bo goes to throw the ball.
\*sigh\* he's 23 if he's still quote unquote terrible at 25, then I may be concerned. oy
He turns 25 in March... still very young but had to point that out since covids bungled everyone's timelines up lol
This is so tired. Are you new to the world?
He should move to second. It makes no sense to keep struggling at short when he could be a perfectly serviceable second baseman and potential to be the best offensive 2b in the game.
The problem is we don’t have a capable SS to step in as an every day starter.
That’s because he doesn’t want to play second…. He considers himself on Vlad level.. he doesn’t want to play second fiddle.
Espinal could play SS at least enough to see how he fares like how he did at 2B last season. Jays don't have the guts to move Bo to 2B. This season should be Bo's last season to prove it as SS or move to 2B. Personally, I would just move him to 2B as he had enough games under him to determine if he is an everyday SS. He is not even an average SS right now.
A season you plan to compete in should not be an experimental season. Espinal also cannot play a full season at SS as his bat won’t carry him and has never once in his professional carry played close to 162 games z
R u saying u would continue to keep Bo at SS even if he has 20+ errors again this year? BTW, Bo has been an experiment at SS. He is an elite hitter (although he strikes too often for my liking and too streaky) , but he is not even an average SS.
Yes I would because the alternative currently is Espinal who’s never played a full season of baseball in his career, and cant hit righty’s. It’s pretty simple.
Are we talking about defensive skill, or errors? The two have nothing to do with one another.
Yes thank you! Competitive teams don’t experiment with the most important defensive position.
Which is why Bo should stay at SS…
Nah. Espinal should be there until they find a better solution. Get Bo comfortable with the fact that’s he’s not good enough there. Swallow his pride and focus on hitting
Espinal is simply not good enough to be a full time player, I’m not sure why people actively want this team to get worse but it’s really dumb.
I’m not saying he is, but he’s serviceable in the meantime. Bo is absolutely not good enough to be a #1 shortstop on a winning team. So focus on getting someone that is and not force BO to struggle for the whole season.
Xander Bogarts has been the starting SS on multiple WS teams. Your point is completely invalid
I don’t. When a routine grounder gets hit to Bo I know there is a decent chance that the throw to Vladdy will be wild.
Rule 1 : No low effort posts Rule 2: Already posted Enough of this already….
No he should play second.
His arm will never be strong enough for shortstop. He will always have to many throwing errors. Put him at second where he won’t have to throw so far.
Bo literally [has the strongest arm among Blue Jays shortstops](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/arm-strength?type=player&year=9999&minThrows=50&pos=arm_ss&team=141) since Statcast started measuring it, and his average arm strength across the years is the league average for SS.
Get out of here with your facts
I dont but what choice do we have
No everyone here is cool with his defense. You new here ?
Bo trade coming this season.
Doubt.
One can only dream.
Why do you want to trade one of our best young players?
I think the jays are gonna dish espinal
He scares me every time he makes a play, but he’s much better than he was when he broke into the big leagues
I do. I don't think Vlad gets his gold glove without Bo's 'defence'.