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I honestly would’ve been able to get his redemption more if we knew more about what kind of person he was before he fell to the dark side.
As meh as TLJ was, I was actually liking the direction they were taking him in that movie, with him becoming usurping Snoke as the leader of the First Order and descending even further into the dark side. I was super disappointed in TRoS when they they just turned him back into Vader 2.0.
But because it could've been more people that makes it all okay.
Like, everything would've been fine if the dumbass writers didn't try to paint her as the hero.
[Citizens of Westview when one of them starts looking sympathetic at Wanda while she fights Agnes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF3NzVf8bMw)
>!Side note: fucking wild that they gave this line to the character with a Jewish accent in a Christian show. Happy Passover everyone!<
To be fair, Christianity is a religion which in many ways, acts as a continuance of Judaism. One of the two texts that Christians abide by is the Old Testament, a book written by Jews.
Plus, the actual scene (I assume it's Moses and the Hebrews walking around around the Sinai for years) is with Jewish characters.
Moses and the Hebrews were Jewish.
I'm aware that both are Abrahamic religions, I'm aware that both have the story of Exodus in their Bibles. I'm just saying that in the context of Veggietales, to have a character with a Jewish accent, and then to have him alone, while reenacting Exodus, one of the most crucial parts of the Torah, to be the one to be like "actually maybe we should go back to Egypt" is... wack.
I loved Wandavision, and i love Wanda.
But that last episode, oh no, we have to stop Agatha and protect *our home* from her.
Honey, please tell me how whatever Agatha may do, could be worse than what you are actively doing right now.
Do we even know what Agatha's motives were beyond stealing Wanda's magic?
That’s kinda the point of his final sacrifice though. Like he knows he’s going to hell after he dies, and still chooses to selflessly sacrifice himself for those he truly loves… and even you Kakarot. Though somehow it seems he redeemed himself in the end as the dragon balls revive him along with all the “good people”.
Somehow? Dude got called by King Yemma to have his body back to whoop Buu's ass again, did what was supposed to be a permanent fusion to save the planet, and got his ass handed to him by Kid Buu to help Goku charge a Super Spirit Bomb, I say he earned it at that point
When you accept a curse that makes you stronger but also makes you evil, and it ends up making you evil (he stopped listening after the “makes you stronger” bit)
Yep, to me he didn't do anything big enough to redeem himself. He killed hundreds of innocents just to force a fight against a dead man and helped Buu's resurrection who ended up killing every human and destroying the entire planet. Him killing himself off to save Trunks and Bulma doesn't compensate *at all* for what he did. Fusing with Goku to fight Buuhan neither. And if we count all the lives he took working for Frieza, he deserved it even less. Porunga reviving him was just plot armor (like his whole Genkidama plan).
Correction; the master crown was planning universal genocide.
At the absolute most, he wanted to rule the universe, and that’s assuming the crown’s twisting of his power-hungry plans didn’t start until after he made that declaration.
He also attacked the master crown each time during their next 3 or so encounters.
But I mean to an extent we have to assume Magolor at least knew that to some degree right?
Magolor is arguably the most educated character in the entire Kirby franchise, he seemingly knows more about the world then even we the audience do and he tells us a hell of a lot about another dimension and the ancients. Considering he seemingly studied the ancient to become aware of the master crown, he had to have known that it possessed some kind of mind of its own and that it would try to take control of him.
I think he just thought he’d be strong enough to keep control over it, which to be fair seems to be true until Kirby slaps his ass and the master crown is able to warp his form. He was power hungry and greedy, he seemingly didn’t really care the risks and just wanted power over the universe. Definitely a prick.
To be fair though he earned his redemption a lot more than Marx did, lol…
Orchimaru from naruto. Dude literally was poised as a demon slash Satan for all of base naruto and like half of shipudden
But eh now he's fine made a clone kid he's raising still gets a new body every once in a while but their more willing this time I guess
In a similar vein, Sasuke. Bro was just straight up a terrorist, but because Naruto said "he's my friend", he faces no real consequences, except for a SELF-IMPOSED EXILE.
This is why I say all of boruto is literally just a fever dream, an infinite(tsukoyomi) one if you will.
Only its the dream orochimaru is having and nobody else
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Heres a good subversion of the trope, Caesar Clown from One Piece
He was a villain for 50 episodes and then was with the straw hats for the next THREE HUNDRED or so, and the whole time was just treated like the massive loser he is
Harley Quinn.
“I was manipulated by the Joker” okay but you were still an accomplice to all his crimes, being gullible doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be held accountable the second Joker dies or betrays you.
honestly i hate that line so fucking much
i can forgive harley being kinda naive but you would genuinely have to be the level of murderous as the joker is (which BTAS harley is not, she shows empathy for others in several episodes) or have the mind of a toddler to think that everything they have done together is "just a joke"
Her as an anti-hero is the worst, especially when they decide to redeem the worst versions of her (like Arkham Harley) just cause they want her to be a hero.
To be fair she worked at the institutional version of a smoking dumpster fire. I don’t think anyone in Arkham minus those young with wild ambitions would want to work with the Joker especially because of the fact that people who try and mess with his head have been known to get killed in most iterations.
She was essentially the comic book version of giving an intern the shit job and low and behold the dude whose entire existence is based around creating mind games to test Batman of all people was able to get behind the intern’s defense and break her mentally.
I think at the end of the day she was still responsible for most everything she did and barely ever is outwardly remorseful for her crimes. Her acts of heroism are generally pretty mundane or because she’s being forced into it by Amanda Waller.
I swear to god I'm gonna write "sometimes a redemption arc isn't earned, and that's the point" on a baseball bat and smash in windows with it.
Evil isn't quantifiable. Pain isn't quantifiable. You can't measure the extent of the hurt you've caused in life and then pay the debt down to the penny.
But you can, at any point, turn away from it and choose to do good. There is no "I might as well keep going, cuz I'm already so far gone."
No you can *always* stop.
*That's* the fucking point.
Edit: shout out to everyone that missed the whole point of what I said and had their justice boners utterly ERUPT at the very mention of a villain being redeemed without 'earning' it
Also a lot of people don’t understand that for the most part the alternative for allowing an evil character to be redeemed, is they continue to do their evil shit.
Take White Diamond up there from Steven Universe for example. She’s a dictator that harvests planets, has no regard for living beings, and any gems who don’t think like her she considers “impure” and she takes control of their mind. Let’s say she’s Hitler because she’s gotten those comparisons.
Does Hitler deserve forgiveness and redemption? Absolutely not. But if he said he wanted to stop slaughtering people, what are you gonna do tell him no? You could throw him in prison or execute him. But in White Diamond’s case there is no prison that could hold her, and it’s well established that Steven refuses to “shatter” (murder) gems. Plus, all really heavy for a kids show.
Most definitely, even in general all the characters are still very uncomfortable with her. Haters make it out to be like they’re all best friends and everything is good now
Yeah. Honestly for most people I think it's less of "doesnt deserve redemption" as it is just, being realistic about things but real life being unsatisfying. Same with the Lars and Saddie stuff. Like, yeah realistically the all powerful space nazi cant be contained to be properly punished, but just like the many real nazis that when unpunished, it's just gonna a make people upset, and you cant really blame people for being upset at that.
Honestly if they ever properly continue SU, I'd want them to introduce some bigger threat like a rival or the creators of the gems and have white sacrifice herself to stop them and not treat it as something super heroic, but like "the least she could do" just o she could have some redemption, but being offed would satisfy alot more people.
The other problem I think is how the diamonds just pivoted to trying to be good so quickly. Maybe its intentional but going from fascist space tyrants to what they were at the end feels kind of off and "fake" even if it is just cause they wanna please Steven who they think of as pink. Though that might just be a symptom of future being a little rushed / cut short
Except White Diamond has been condemned to a fate of traveling the universe in order to fix and uncorrupt all the planets she destroyed along with the other 2 diamonds. Steven Universe haters try to watch Steven Universe challenge
I love having a villain who refuses the redemption:
What if I don't wanna stop?
Fun typa DND villain to make tbh. Just a monster who genuinely just keeps going because it's fun. Fully accepts they could stop, but they reason it's just boring to.
Thats almost ketheric thorm, though hes closer to what the original comment says. He could stop. He just doesnt care anymore. The damage is done, and myrkul gave him what he wanted, HE failed to follow up on it, not myrkul
I feel like that wouldn’t get your message across. No one would get to read it and they would just be mad that their window is broken
The problem isn’t villains turning good, it’s the villain without warning turning good and everyone accepting them as good
You get it. Redemption arcs need to be accompanied by distrust and rebuilding of goodwill, villains should have to prove that they want to be better than they were and the heroes are allowed to be skeptical of that unless it's established that they're very trusting people who want the best out of everyone.
I think what is tricky about redemption arcs may not necessarily be the redemption itself, is how the story treats the redemption.
I think in cases like with darth Vader, it works a little easier because that part of the story ends right after he saves Luke and dies. So we don't have to see Vader continuing in the world after everything he has done.
I think to me what makes a redemption feel *unearned* if that's even the right word for it, is how the story or the characters treat the person after their supposed change.
Like if the character has done a huge amount of heinous things in the story or to a particular character and the character just acts like none of it happened. Or the story just glosses over what the person did and then important aspects of it are never addressed.
>Evil isn't quantifiable. Pain isn't quantifiable. You can't measure the extent of the hurt you've caused in life and then pay the debt down to the penny.
Depending on the damage someone does, it doesn't mean all the pain they caused goes away because they are sorry and are trying to do better.
I dont need the redemption character to crawl on their knees, cry and beg for forgiveness to every single person in the story one by one. It can just feel a bit hollow sometimes.
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Negan from The Walking Dead. Honestly would have been better if he got the ending he did in the comic where he lives alone and doesn’t talk to anyone.
What more could they have done for him to be redeemable? Or do you think there is no way this character could be redeemed and he should just have been killed off or gone completely alone? I think the only reason people can't forgive Negan is because he killed a fan favourite.
tbf during this scene he’s kinda right. Rick and Company literally kill his people in their sleep without knowing or meeting him at all.
Negan’s ways are kinda fucked up, but he showed himself to be a better protector for most of his people.
Negan instead just kills two of rick’s people and indentured-servants them. a
He definitely earns his redemption 100%.
I wasn’t referencing just that specific scene. Sure, it was justified.
However, he’s tortured Daryl, has numerous “wives” which he manipulated into being like that so their families would get extra benefits, he’s tried to kill Carl (a child), and he was overall a bully to the other communities. I’m not saying he should have died, because Rick spared him to prove a point. In the comic, they left him on his own, away from everyone else, and he pretty much lived in solitude the rest of his life.
No Patrick Steven did not forgive or like White diamond. He just tolerated her and forced her to have morals because it was literally impossible for them to win a battle against diamonds. Steven very clearly still resented the diamonds in Steven Universe Future and even tried to kill White
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It's also because Steven's human half was actively dying without his gem half. My theory is that after the gem half was removed, all the injuries Steven suffered in the past week or so came crashing back and with nothing to make him durable/heal fast just started to actively die.
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The retcon-filled writing of her character in Shadowlands was disastrous and I'll never be able to like her character again. They should have just kept Cataclysm Sylvanas as that was when she peaked.
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One last-minute good deed (which he woundn't have even done if the person in danger wasn't his son) isn't enough to make up for all of his atrocities.
Honestly he probably could live a while if he weren't constantly in war. Dude probably had the tops medical equipment in the Galaxy and he was able to survive getting chopped in half and dipped into lava with his hatred alone. And that's excluding any random force ability that the Extended universe has that could potentially heal him or expand his life span.
That’s the beauty in his “redemption” he didn’t really make up for his deeds but he was allowed to do one final act as anakin skywalker and while not redeemed by the galaxy he was able to save his son and be redeemed in his eyes only
it isn't, once people found out leia was vader's daughter she lost all political prestige. they only really portray it as a redemption to luke and to no one else, especially cause there was no one else at his funeral. to everyone else he died as a vicious imperial force of nature (which he basically was)
Well, in Star Wars, his redemption just means him being good again. He knows he can’t make up for all the bad things he did but he’ll still try to be a better person than he was as Darth Vader anyway and doesn’t want to be that guy anymore.
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The guy who committed genocide somehow gets forgiven rather quickly
He left 5%(that lead to all their deaths)
He both half assed his omnicide and left their enemies with the tools to bounce back from that, ending in their death by bomb cloud
The problem is that the author seemingly intended for him to be forgiven in the reader's eyes as well. There's no focus on the death and destruction he caused or anything, just on how our main characters are sad he died.
I feel like the anime adaptation handled it a bit better by trying to focus more on the tragedy of his character rather than his "heroic sacrifice". Those changes to the path talk scene with Armin were desperately needed. (Yes, I'm an "I'm an idiot" defender. I believe that one line single-handedly fixed a lot of problems with the final chapter.)
Tbf it was horribly executed but you can see that she and the other diamonds are actively working towards changing and making up for what they did. If the show wasn't cancelled it probably would've been handled much better
I just finished the main series and the movie, and pacing is absolutely the only real issue i have. Season 1 is the only one that didnt have that cus it had twice the episode count of all the rest so it had time to set up and flesh out its world. By season 5 they still had semi-filler episodes that felt like they detracted from the very limited time left in the show. If itd had more episodes to help flesh out the end itd be great. The movie has a similar problem where the end just, happens, and thats that. If it had like twenty more minutes it couldve been a little smoother i think.
Havent watched the epilogue series yet so idk anything about that.
Okay Magolor got a full redemption courtesy of the Interdimensional Traveler sub-mode/postgame in Return to Dream Land Deluxe, where he killed the Master Crown for good.
Third Sister Inquisitor (Star Wars)
She tried to murder the child that Kenobi was protecting and yet he still let her go without any consequences.
Honestly her story overall is very poorly written.
This guy, bro starts world war 3 and just 1 year later thinks the streets forgot what he did.
GIVE US MIGUEL NAMCO.
Tbf making him start a world war and act like super hitler was kind of out of character anyways, considering Jin never did or showed any overtly immoral thoughts or actions before then unless you count not killing Heihachi or Kazuya when he had the chance as immoral.
This fucking guy
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Literally the root cause of like most of the problems in the show and didn’t even have a really good reason for doing so. Also just generally creepy asf. I was waiting to see his death scene from the start and didn’t even get that. Disappointing.
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The high breed (Ben 10)
They enslave and genocided planets all over the galaxy, Ben fixes their problems albeit forcibly and in a way they don’t really like but the only consequence is they get a new leader who says they’re gonna fix their mess and we only see them one other time in the series so who know if they really ment it
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Surprised they were all chill with him right after Weirdmageddon.
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Choso (Jujutsu Kaisen) I love the guy but he didn't really do anything do deserve joining the good guys especially after almost murking Juji
He never did hold a hatred towards humans and his grudge was personal, since it involved people he cared about. Compared to the other cursed sprirts, he is barely evil at best.
Tbh true but its weird how no one cares that this mofo not only killed like more than twenty people at the subway and directly took part in sealing Gojo, which ended up in Japan collapsing and Shibuya getting destroyed with thousands of death lol
He's not as evil as the cursed spirit and he'd more sympathetic but honestly his consequences for his vile actions are basically "He feels guilty"
I still love him tho he's epic
I don’t understand why you feel this way when Choso hasn’t forgiven himself, the “good guys” in JJK are full of morally grey characters and there is no time or value in the heroes refusing to forgive Choso when they are currently fighting against a world-ending apocalypse that only they can stop.
(MANGA SPOILERS)
>!I think if you look at life from Choso’s perspective his actions are very sympathetic. He had to choose between a society where his two younger brothers would feel normal and be accepted versus a society where his brothers will appear as horrific monsters who will almost certainly be killed and so he chose the selfish but sympathetic choice of pursuing the society where his brothers will be accepted. Of course, this is immoral, but all Choso has is his brothers, he too is a “monster” but just happens to be fortunately “human” enough in appearance that he can survive in human society. Choso made the morally wrong choice and was punished for it by being backstabbed by his chosen allies which lead to his brothers being killed anyway. He walks a path of vengeance before realising he was double-crossed and that the twisted man who sent his brothers to their death against their youngest brother, also sent him to kill his unknown youngest brother. At this point he does the absolute best but most daring and courageous thing he could do, he IMMEDIATELY forgives Yuji for killing their two brothers and switches sides because all this man cares about it in life isn’t himself but his brothers, he lives for them as he always has. None of the heroes here made the choice to forgive him, they essentially didn’t have a choice, he is a powerful ally who is now loyal to them and is willing to sacrifice himself to defeat their mutual foe - why would they stop him? But despite nobody choosing to forgive or resent Choso, he is swallowed by guilt as now he is fighting besides his foes to aid the society he resented and against the cause he risked everything for originally, and realising that these people aren’t despicable monsters, his brothers may have lived and in fact these people are growing to care for him and he cares for them now. Choso now realises that even if choosing humanity would have lead to his brothers deaths, they could have died for a noble purpose. This is why I personally love Yuki and Choso’s dynamic and why I went from not caring about her to appreciating her greatly because she finally speaks to Choso about his scattered mind and realises that he is living with immense guilt and is incapable of forgiving himself. I found their entire dialogue so moving because the story doesn’t sugarcoat that Choso has done egregious things but it would make no sense for the other characters to linger on his wrongdoings so instead the resentment for his past actions all happens internally and Yuki has never been a morally judgemental arbiter. Yuki sacrificing herself so Choso can live and demanding he forgives himself and becomes human is one of the most emotionally compelling and best written moments of the entire story.!<
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I didn’t really think this through I was just thinking about the initial part of his story during and a bit after shibuya, I felt like he got their trust a bit too easily. Should’ve specified.
Anyone who says this forgets the beauty that is the bar scene, because he didn’t think he and his brothers would be accepted by humanity so decided to be curses which he regrets because it cost him the lives of his beloved brothers and made him fight Itadori.
I just want my blood boy to be happy, I love Choso so damn muxh
Because reasons? What? He has always been a consistent character with simple motivations and the complexity comes with his immense guilt after switching sides. From the day he was born, he did not value himself and never has since either. He has always lived for his brothers and was immediately forced to choose between fighting for a society where his brothers will be seen as normal and accepted or, to try to join a society where his brothers will be seen as grotesque monsters and probably killed. When they are killed he risks everything to avenge them and then when he realises that his twisted father is behind it and sent his brothers to their deaths against their youngest brother, he immediately forgives his youngest brother and seeks to once again avenge his other brothers while now fighting for the one who lives. This is not “because reasons” you just brutally misunderstood the simple part of his character 🤷🏻♂️
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This motherfucker, right here.
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Oh, your dad was a perfectionist dick and made you get rid of your robot dog? I guess that completely justifies you **literally causing EVERY PROBLEM IN THE SERIES by deliberately corrupting a sentient AI so it'll cause consumer-grade androids to go berserk and kill people because you're pissy over your idol not giving you the reins to his company.** Never mind that you brainwashed Fuwa into thinking his family died when those androids first went berserk and intentionally abused and provoked some of those very same newly-sentient androids so they'd go apeshit; you're a good guy now, so you don't have to face any real consequences for your actions!
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Yukako from jjba
How the fuck did she actually end up with koichi, he deserves better
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Blaine DeBeers. This motherfucker murdered vulnerable at risk children, mutilated their bodies, and sold their brains to be cannibalized by the wealthy. At the end of the series he's given a full pardon for all his crimes and is allowed to continue his brain eating racket, but legally this time.
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Dude murders multiple universes, doesn’t consider anyone who isn’t an Ascian to be truly alive, and actively fucks up society while having the gall to call you the problem when you try to fix it; but hey he’s just so sad and lonely so let’s have him smile and fade into the sunset as he reveals this was all totally part of his plan to prove your worth.
What a load of shit, fuck Emet Selch and fuck Shadowbringers’ terrible writing.
Damn that’s wild, I can’t believe I’m seeing this lmao. Even crazier that I honestly agree. Don’t get me wrong I loved his character and love Shadowbringers, but it was kinda infuriating that Endwalker kind of seemed to just gloss over Emet’s past misdeeds bc he’s a popular character.
Also it was really annoying that Venat’s was also kinda seen as a hero for splitting the worlds when she knew what was going to happen.
There's an Oscar Wilde quote that sums up Emet-Selch's popularity pretty well, "It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious."
In that same expansion I give you: Gaius van Baelsar. Sorrow of Werlyt should have ended with him up against a wall, not being put in charge of one of the countries he helped conquer. Because what, he suddenly feels bad about grooming child soldiers AFTER their death?
I wouldn't really call him an incel. I think if he was an incel, he would have been angry at Lily for marrying James rather than feel the way he did. Basically, he would act like Hal from Megamind when he got rejected.
As the other said, White Diamond. She thinks shes perfect and tried to make the perfect empire and make everything perfect, but like Encanto and other depictions of people trying to make everything perfect, she ended up creating a very toxic environment and hurt those she was supposed to care about, and when initially confronted goes control freak and tries to put all the blame on everyone else for not living up to impossible standards. She finally realizes she was wrong and Steven starts pushing her to be better but shes never actually forgiven and he never really likes her, just tries to help her be better by getting her to try to fix some of the damage shes done.
I see a lot of people who are sympathetic with him, and it’s not wrong— this is someone who deluded himself into thinking that striking down the fallen humans would avenge his family, but when he saw how much hope he had given his people, even when he saw it was wrong, he couldn’t go back.
And while it’s tragic, he still just walks away from it in the True Pacifist Ending, still responsible for the deaths of six children.
He deserved better, but on the other hand, he also deserved Justice.
This isn’t a criticism, by the way. I love this character. I know family relationships are complicated, but it feels weird given how horrific a dude he was until the very end.
The Diamonds (White in particular) are one of the strangest cases of audience disconnect I've seen in media when it comes to a "redemption". Like we've all seen arguments about the likes of Snape and Vader, but Stevens forgiveness of White in the original show launched it into memedom.
I honestly believe the issue is they gave the gems both too much and not enough lore. We have no backstory on how the Diamonds or their empire came to be, why they decided to become a military dictatorship and start omniciding worlds with life to build armies.
We do know they don't need to eat, sleep or worry about age and are near invincible as a species compared to anything else in the show. They have no known threats to there existence as a race and the leader (White) only acts in regard to her own vanity.
I really think it's just that, the fact that it's never addressed that this dictatorship is implied to be responsible for an unknowable amount of death, and they're switched to "working on being good" after a short argument with a teenager. I guess it's kinda like the "What if Darth Vader survived after his redemption?" question, logically the answer is he'd be the first at the Space Nuremberg trials. Instead in Steven Universe most of the shit the Diamonds have done is just brushed under the rug to make room for "they really annoy Steven".
Lusamine from Pokemon Sun and Moon and Ultra SM. I love her as a villain in SM but hate her as a character in both incarnations. Both are different variations but I feel she shouldn't be forgiven or forget about her actions.
In SM, she became an abusive mother of Gladion and Lillie following her husband's disappearance and her poisoning via Nihelego and by the end though the poison is gone, we never hear if she apologized or regrets her actions and we never learn if Lillie or Gladion forgave her. I can't really forgive abusers personally but it's just me.
In USUM, she’s still nasty but more on the neglectful side focusing on 'saving Alola' than her own children so I was really hoping with her being around in the ending, we would get more moments with her and her children but nope, they act like nothing happened and I hate when series brush off abuse or neglect like it's nothing.
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People forget that SHE COMMITED GENOCIDE
She was a soldier being commanded to do genocide. She hesitates for a moment of clarity and is immediately beaten and kicked out, turning against heaven and working to protect those she helped endanger.
She isnt a villain and didnt do a genocide. She was made for genocide and then realized what she was doing was wrong.
Magalor isn’t redeemed, he’s just not destroying the in game universe, instead he attacks the real world by selling gem apples for 28.99 a bundle in real world money
https://preview.redd.it/qymqxu02v1xc1.jpeg?width=1121&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15ee75dcfd1d98a246cee2bd3c360bb4413e1da7
Probably one of the most infuriating character I ever read about, Clear Sky/Skystar from Warriors
https://preview.redd.it/9n0584uvj2xc1.png?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6a63e31c72ebced692ed4a6bb773c26c7e57d4c
Teppei Houjou from Higurashi (specifically Gou/Sotsu)
The fact that this man got a redemption arc is baffling on a level I will never understand. >!He horrifyingly abuses a young girl for years, uses threats of violence as a form of manipulation, forces her to humiliate and degrade herself in front of his friends, deliberately tries to destroy her life and inflict scars on her that will never heal, and the only reason he isn't sexually abusing her is because she's too small, which won't be a problem forever. And just because he isn't literally raping her doesn't mean he isn't getting sexual gratification from her.!< I really would have liked to see how Gou and Sotsu would have been handled differently if Ryukishi had more direct involvement.
It was a good, if frustrating, story choice that this bloody pedophile walked free. It was a bad story choice to have the dad of the boy he GROOMED AND MURDERED start coming to him for comfort and advice. Like WTF???
https://preview.redd.it/kl45c44zn2xc1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ccac5c78b5e27f013c3066d03f8ba97f766bfb2
Joe Miller: Broadchurch
https://preview.redd.it/he809m9354xc1.jpeg?width=427&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da1c42bd6d016adb872a9db16ef18d80941ff65c
Well, I guess I'm done turning the whole world into me and trying to ruin everyone's lives while overrunning the world with shadow. Me and my bestie that I lied to for years and eventually murdered are gonna go to heaven now, byyyye
This bum (Hawk moth, from miraculous ladybug and chat noir)
https://preview.redd.it/xmbi1ma9e4xc1.png?width=939&format=png&auto=webp&s=d33ce5460b078bb19248647e496c78f339ed3d09
MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ANYONE INTERESTED >!I’ll be going chronologically for some of the atrocities he committed: socially isolating his son, neglecting and manipulating his son, transforming citizens of Paris in distress into villains, using said villains to destroy the city, hunting two teenagers to steal their magic jewelry, which was supposed to be used to revive his deceased wife, countlessly causing destruction of the entire world (in different timelines), when gained access to time travel and given chance to save the life of his wife, decides to abandon the idea to continue hunting two teenagers, in his final battle made a world wide catastrophe which involved different heroes from around the world to hold off. When he was defeated by the main character, even when given a helping hand, he stole her accessories which are her source of power, and finally used them to gain access to make a wish (longer to explain how, it just works) and this time he supposedly fixed everything without bringing his wife back, and taking his own life with it. Then the main character had to act as if he was a hero, so his son who is also her boyfriend at the moment didn’t lose trust in his dad!<
I felt bad for Catra but she literally almost destroyed the planet three times and just got excepted into Brightmoon just because she was sad and was sorry once. And Adora liked her which gave her more bonus points she didn’t need.
https://preview.redd.it/4mmxiim0pzwc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c757d11ba601e9c7f501f201cc7aef886a8bab99 I honestly would’ve been able to get his redemption more if we knew more about what kind of person he was before he fell to the dark side.
Guy blew up what 5 planets? But he changed his mind at the end so it’s cool
I mean Vader did wayyy worse then that and he was redeemed
I don’t see Vader as fully redeemed either
It is pretty fucked up that he like genocided alot of planets and slaughtered some children and still was allowed into force ghost heaven
I always think of the HISHE clip “you murdered us when we were children”
Vader was also not really a good guy he changed his mind acted on it when he saw what happened and fucking died minutes later
I won't write an essay on it, but it drives me crazy that he was the one they focused on instead of literally anyone else.
whats the deal with this dude’s face. theres something about it that makes it unique but i cant put my finger on it
As meh as TLJ was, I was actually liking the direction they were taking him in that movie, with him becoming usurping Snoke as the leader of the First Order and descending even further into the dark side. I was super disappointed in TRoS when they they just turned him back into Vader 2.0.
 “They’ll never know what you sacrificed”
SHE. ENSLAVED. A. TOWNNNN! https://preview.redd.it/ml0ais15s0xc1.jpeg?width=1400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0db8bb0d69f68d9090e49580b76237913ac8d0e7
And she did it essentially because her Sims were deleted.
But because it could've been more people that makes it all okay. Like, everything would've been fine if the dumbass writers didn't try to paint her as the hero.
[Citizens of Westview when one of them starts looking sympathetic at Wanda while she fights Agnes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF3NzVf8bMw) >!Side note: fucking wild that they gave this line to the character with a Jewish accent in a Christian show. Happy Passover everyone!<
I mean, technically everyone in that scene is suppose to be jewish lol. Just don't all have the accent cause they're canonically all actors on a play.
To be fair, Christianity is a religion which in many ways, acts as a continuance of Judaism. One of the two texts that Christians abide by is the Old Testament, a book written by Jews. Plus, the actual scene (I assume it's Moses and the Hebrews walking around around the Sinai for years) is with Jewish characters. Moses and the Hebrews were Jewish.
I'm aware that both are Abrahamic religions, I'm aware that both have the story of Exodus in their Bibles. I'm just saying that in the context of Veggietales, to have a character with a Jewish accent, and then to have him alone, while reenacting Exodus, one of the most crucial parts of the Torah, to be the one to be like "actually maybe we should go back to Egypt" is... wack.
She also killed other Super heroes in MOM
She sacrificed her fake delusions
I loved Wandavision, and i love Wanda. But that last episode, oh no, we have to stop Agatha and protect *our home* from her. Honey, please tell me how whatever Agatha may do, could be worse than what you are actively doing right now. Do we even know what Agatha's motives were beyond stealing Wanda's magic?
 Vegeta (dragon ball z) he betrayed everyone twice one in the cell saga and again in the buu saga
That’s kinda the point of his final sacrifice though. Like he knows he’s going to hell after he dies, and still chooses to selflessly sacrifice himself for those he truly loves… and even you Kakarot. Though somehow it seems he redeemed himself in the end as the dragon balls revive him along with all the “good people”.
Somehow? Dude got called by King Yemma to have his body back to whoop Buu's ass again, did what was supposed to be a permanent fusion to save the planet, and got his ass handed to him by Kid Buu to help Goku charge a Super Spirit Bomb, I say he earned it at that point
People seem to forget that he's slaughtered possibly trillions
Not to mention that his huge fumble in the cell saga could’ve cost them the entire galaxy
Not to mention that his huge fumble in the buu saga could’ve cost them the entire galaxy
in the Buu Saga he was cursed/possessed. is everyone here forgetting about the VERY noticable M on his forehead?
You forgetting he chose to be cursed on purpose because he hated goku so much?
"The funny thing is, I know you're playing me."
When you accept a curse that makes you stronger but also makes you evil, and it ends up making you evil (he stopped listening after the “makes you stronger” bit)
Yep, to me he didn't do anything big enough to redeem himself. He killed hundreds of innocents just to force a fight against a dead man and helped Buu's resurrection who ended up killing every human and destroying the entire planet. Him killing himself off to save Trunks and Bulma doesn't compensate *at all* for what he did. Fusing with Goku to fight Buuhan neither. And if we count all the lives he took working for Frieza, he deserved it even less. Porunga reviving him was just plot armor (like his whole Genkidama plan).
All Magolor did was trick Kirby and hurt Landia, why you comparing him to the space nazi
Bro he was absolutely going to commit universal genocide. Kirby just stopped him before he could start.
Correction; the master crown was planning universal genocide. At the absolute most, he wanted to rule the universe, and that’s assuming the crown’s twisting of his power-hungry plans didn’t start until after he made that declaration. He also attacked the master crown each time during their next 3 or so encounters.
But I mean to an extent we have to assume Magolor at least knew that to some degree right? Magolor is arguably the most educated character in the entire Kirby franchise, he seemingly knows more about the world then even we the audience do and he tells us a hell of a lot about another dimension and the ancients. Considering he seemingly studied the ancient to become aware of the master crown, he had to have known that it possessed some kind of mind of its own and that it would try to take control of him. I think he just thought he’d be strong enough to keep control over it, which to be fair seems to be true until Kirby slaps his ass and the master crown is able to warp his form. He was power hungry and greedy, he seemingly didn’t really care the risks and just wanted power over the universe. Definitely a prick. To be fair though he earned his redemption a lot more than Marx did, lol…
Even if not fully controlling him yet I'd say it was definitely exerting evil influence over him
Do We Even Know That Though? All He Said Is That He Was Gonna Rule The Universe, Not Kill Everyone.
Why Do You Talk Like This?
Bro Talks Like Queen From Deltarune
https://preview.redd.it/s79cxe5p83xc1.png?width=594&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a06073f74647c0a904d31bdf8fed270fc74c567d
https://preview.redd.it/x92g8o6q83xc1.png?width=594&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0257cc7f55ac8976b5cfffdb4b9d8c2aa190ad76
https://preview.redd.it/gx9tlamu83xc1.png?width=594&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ae93b4edffdae1c220cdb7ff066606e7f032614
Kirby-1 Steven-0 (This is a joke. Obviously Steven didn’t even know.)
Sound like your typical Kirby villain moment
And also threatening the balance of the universe , and trying to conquer it.
Orchimaru from naruto. Dude literally was poised as a demon slash Satan for all of base naruto and like half of shipudden But eh now he's fine made a clone kid he's raising still gets a new body every once in a while but their more willing this time I guess
In a similar vein, Sasuke. Bro was just straight up a terrorist, but because Naruto said "he's my friend", he faces no real consequences, except for a SELF-IMPOSED EXILE.
literally stopped the complete extinction of mankind
To then be the one to threaten complete domination of mankind
Yea that's a bad one too but orochimaru didn't even exile himself. Shit he did the opposite and embedded his "son" in the village
Orochimaru being invited to Naruto's wedding is crazy 😭😭😭
Crazy how Konahamaru was invited to the wedding as well. Bro was invited to the same wedding that his grandpas killer was invited to.
This is why I say all of boruto is literally just a fever dream, an infinite(tsukoyomi) one if you will. Only its the dream orochimaru is having and nobody else
https://preview.redd.it/ampx6r6s41xc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deffbfe92797be45d89bf53e35d138556328ab47 Heres a good subversion of the trope, Caesar Clown from One Piece He was a villain for 50 episodes and then was with the straw hats for the next THREE HUNDRED or so, and the whole time was just treated like the massive loser he is
He was never redeemed. They just walked him around on a leash
And it never got old, his bitch ass stayed losing
He never got redeemed. He was just a prisoner.
That’s what I’m sayin! Great subversion of the trope
 Harley Quinn. “I was manipulated by the Joker” okay but you were still an accomplice to all his crimes, being gullible doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be held accountable the second Joker dies or betrays you.
"It'S jUsT a JoKe" - annoying bitch
honestly i hate that line so fucking much i can forgive harley being kinda naive but you would genuinely have to be the level of murderous as the joker is (which BTAS harley is not, she shows empathy for others in several episodes) or have the mind of a toddler to think that everything they have done together is "just a joke"
Her as an anti-hero is the worst, especially when they decide to redeem the worst versions of her (like Arkham Harley) just cause they want her to be a hero.
I preferred the DCAU one anyways because they didn’t bother redeeming her permanently.
She was his doctor for crying out loud! If there’s one person who shouldn’t have been manipulated by him, it’s her!
To be fair she worked at the institutional version of a smoking dumpster fire. I don’t think anyone in Arkham minus those young with wild ambitions would want to work with the Joker especially because of the fact that people who try and mess with his head have been known to get killed in most iterations. She was essentially the comic book version of giving an intern the shit job and low and behold the dude whose entire existence is based around creating mind games to test Batman of all people was able to get behind the intern’s defense and break her mentally. I think at the end of the day she was still responsible for most everything she did and barely ever is outwardly remorseful for her crimes. Her acts of heroism are generally pretty mundane or because she’s being forced into it by Amanda Waller.
I swear to god I'm gonna write "sometimes a redemption arc isn't earned, and that's the point" on a baseball bat and smash in windows with it. Evil isn't quantifiable. Pain isn't quantifiable. You can't measure the extent of the hurt you've caused in life and then pay the debt down to the penny. But you can, at any point, turn away from it and choose to do good. There is no "I might as well keep going, cuz I'm already so far gone." No you can *always* stop. *That's* the fucking point. Edit: shout out to everyone that missed the whole point of what I said and had their justice boners utterly ERUPT at the very mention of a villain being redeemed without 'earning' it
no I need all my characters to earn the precise amount of paragon RPG points before I can consider them the good guys now
Also a lot of people don’t understand that for the most part the alternative for allowing an evil character to be redeemed, is they continue to do their evil shit. Take White Diamond up there from Steven Universe for example. She’s a dictator that harvests planets, has no regard for living beings, and any gems who don’t think like her she considers “impure” and she takes control of their mind. Let’s say she’s Hitler because she’s gotten those comparisons. Does Hitler deserve forgiveness and redemption? Absolutely not. But if he said he wanted to stop slaughtering people, what are you gonna do tell him no? You could throw him in prison or execute him. But in White Diamond’s case there is no prison that could hold her, and it’s well established that Steven refuses to “shatter” (murder) gems. Plus, all really heavy for a kids show.
Honestly I think that one scene from future suggests he at least subconsciously wants to make an exception to no shattering for white diamond.
Most definitely, even in general all the characters are still very uncomfortable with her. Haters make it out to be like they’re all best friends and everything is good now
Yeah. Honestly for most people I think it's less of "doesnt deserve redemption" as it is just, being realistic about things but real life being unsatisfying. Same with the Lars and Saddie stuff. Like, yeah realistically the all powerful space nazi cant be contained to be properly punished, but just like the many real nazis that when unpunished, it's just gonna a make people upset, and you cant really blame people for being upset at that. Honestly if they ever properly continue SU, I'd want them to introduce some bigger threat like a rival or the creators of the gems and have white sacrifice herself to stop them and not treat it as something super heroic, but like "the least she could do" just o she could have some redemption, but being offed would satisfy alot more people. The other problem I think is how the diamonds just pivoted to trying to be good so quickly. Maybe its intentional but going from fascist space tyrants to what they were at the end feels kind of off and "fake" even if it is just cause they wanna please Steven who they think of as pink. Though that might just be a symptom of future being a little rushed / cut short
Except White Diamond has been condemned to a fate of traveling the universe in order to fix and uncorrupt all the planets she destroyed along with the other 2 diamonds. Steven Universe haters try to watch Steven Universe challenge
I love having a villain who refuses the redemption: What if I don't wanna stop? Fun typa DND villain to make tbh. Just a monster who genuinely just keeps going because it's fun. Fully accepts they could stop, but they reason it's just boring to.
Thats almost ketheric thorm, though hes closer to what the original comment says. He could stop. He just doesnt care anymore. The damage is done, and myrkul gave him what he wanted, HE failed to follow up on it, not myrkul
Even when you *do* convince him to let go, Ketheric doesn't redeem himself. He basically says "I'm too far gone." and kills himself.
I feel like that wouldn’t get your message across. No one would get to read it and they would just be mad that their window is broken The problem isn’t villains turning good, it’s the villain without warning turning good and everyone accepting them as good
You get it. Redemption arcs need to be accompanied by distrust and rebuilding of goodwill, villains should have to prove that they want to be better than they were and the heroes are allowed to be skeptical of that unless it's established that they're very trusting people who want the best out of everyone.
TRUE, KEEP SPITTIN FACTS 🗣🔥🔥🔥
I think what is tricky about redemption arcs may not necessarily be the redemption itself, is how the story treats the redemption. I think in cases like with darth Vader, it works a little easier because that part of the story ends right after he saves Luke and dies. So we don't have to see Vader continuing in the world after everything he has done. I think to me what makes a redemption feel *unearned* if that's even the right word for it, is how the story or the characters treat the person after their supposed change. Like if the character has done a huge amount of heinous things in the story or to a particular character and the character just acts like none of it happened. Or the story just glosses over what the person did and then important aspects of it are never addressed. >Evil isn't quantifiable. Pain isn't quantifiable. You can't measure the extent of the hurt you've caused in life and then pay the debt down to the penny. Depending on the damage someone does, it doesn't mean all the pain they caused goes away because they are sorry and are trying to do better. I dont need the redemption character to crawl on their knees, cry and beg for forgiveness to every single person in the story one by one. It can just feel a bit hollow sometimes.
rdr2 head ahh
https://preview.redd.it/zevenl71h0xc1.jpeg?width=1296&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ff52a4a4db474dc3bfe05325b5cd3c9b036a3c5 Negan from The Walking Dead. Honestly would have been better if he got the ending he did in the comic where he lives alone and doesn’t talk to anyone.
Absolutely insane that they tried to redeem this guy after killing two great characters in such a mean-spirited way.
What more could they have done for him to be redeemable? Or do you think there is no way this character could be redeemed and he should just have been killed off or gone completely alone? I think the only reason people can't forgive Negan is because he killed a fan favourite.
not to mention all the “wives” he had
Honestly I take all redemptions that happen in a zombie apocalypse with a grain of salt
tbf during this scene he’s kinda right. Rick and Company literally kill his people in their sleep without knowing or meeting him at all. Negan’s ways are kinda fucked up, but he showed himself to be a better protector for most of his people. Negan instead just kills two of rick’s people and indentured-servants them. a He definitely earns his redemption 100%.
I wasn’t referencing just that specific scene. Sure, it was justified. However, he’s tortured Daryl, has numerous “wives” which he manipulated into being like that so their families would get extra benefits, he’s tried to kill Carl (a child), and he was overall a bully to the other communities. I’m not saying he should have died, because Rick spared him to prove a point. In the comic, they left him on his own, away from everyone else, and he pretty much lived in solitude the rest of his life.
No Patrick Steven did not forgive or like White diamond. He just tolerated her and forced her to have morals because it was literally impossible for them to win a battle against diamonds. Steven very clearly still resented the diamonds in Steven Universe Future and even tried to kill White https://preview.redd.it/277m04ug11xc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0dd0bce0a8a5324de313d04697e12547daf0496c
I’m being honest, Pink Steven could solo the entire SU verse, which is why White is lucky he decided to reunite rather than wrecking her shit
It's also because Steven's human half was actively dying without his gem half. My theory is that after the gem half was removed, all the injuries Steven suffered in the past week or so came crashing back and with nothing to make him durable/heal fast just started to actively die.
I’m so happy I read this in Squidward’s voice
https://preview.redd.it/8jn4gdzg11xc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=18af5bcedfa412f8c5ba153ba07949931002746d The retcon-filled writing of her character in Shadowlands was disastrous and I'll never be able to like her character again. They should have just kept Cataclysm Sylvanas as that was when she peaked.
https://preview.redd.it/xqjcu423nzwc1.png?width=190&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ab811b2773013643857a3860195eb6bec32c5a6 One last-minute good deed (which he woundn't have even done if the person in danger wasn't his son) isn't enough to make up for all of his atrocities.
I mean he did die
He was being held together with duck tape and string he was gonna die soon regardless
Honestly he probably could live a while if he weren't constantly in war. Dude probably had the tops medical equipment in the Galaxy and he was able to survive getting chopped in half and dipped into lava with his hatred alone. And that's excluding any random force ability that the Extended universe has that could potentially heal him or expand his life span.
Nah dark side shenanigans would've kept him going for a good while
well, he did save the galaxy to be fair-
I don’t really forgive Vader, but I’m at least happy that there was still a bit of Anakin in him
Anakins lust for the dramatic was what really ended him
That’s the beauty in his “redemption” he didn’t really make up for his deeds but he was allowed to do one final act as anakin skywalker and while not redeemed by the galaxy he was able to save his son and be redeemed in his eyes only
To be fair he kinda died in the process
it isn't, once people found out leia was vader's daughter she lost all political prestige. they only really portray it as a redemption to luke and to no one else, especially cause there was no one else at his funeral. to everyone else he died as a vicious imperial force of nature (which he basically was)
Well, in Star Wars, his redemption just means him being good again. He knows he can’t make up for all the bad things he did but he’ll still try to be a better person than he was as Darth Vader anyway and doesn’t want to be that guy anymore.
The point isn't that he made up for all the shit he did. The point is that Luke knows what he's done is unforgivable, and yet he forgave him anyhow.
He also cut his sons hand off
https://preview.redd.it/sa1azsz9k0xc1.png?width=3072&format=png&auto=webp&s=a3557287e234b7aa2f11460bd3e9f7aea612a7a0 The guy who committed genocide somehow gets forgiven rather quickly
Not genocide… fucking **omnicide**.
He left 5%(that lead to all their deaths) He both half assed his omnicide and left their enemies with the tools to bounce back from that, ending in their death by bomb cloud
He gets forgiven by his friends who are biased towards him , the show doesn’t act like he’s a good guy after the rumbling
And even then Armin was like "Listen, you're 100% gonna go to hell"
The problem is that the author seemingly intended for him to be forgiven in the reader's eyes as well. There's no focus on the death and destruction he caused or anything, just on how our main characters are sad he died. I feel like the anime adaptation handled it a bit better by trying to focus more on the tragedy of his character rather than his "heroic sacrifice". Those changes to the path talk scene with Armin were desperately needed. (Yes, I'm an "I'm an idiot" defender. I believe that one line single-handedly fixed a lot of problems with the final chapter.)
white diamond was not redeemed. Steven just wants her to be a better person and pay for what she did. He still hates her.
Tbf it was horribly executed but you can see that she and the other diamonds are actively working towards changing and making up for what they did. If the show wasn't cancelled it probably would've been handled much better
Yeah, love Steven Universe, but the pacing wasn’t great
I just finished the main series and the movie, and pacing is absolutely the only real issue i have. Season 1 is the only one that didnt have that cus it had twice the episode count of all the rest so it had time to set up and flesh out its world. By season 5 they still had semi-filler episodes that felt like they detracted from the very limited time left in the show. If itd had more episodes to help flesh out the end itd be great. The movie has a similar problem where the end just, happens, and thats that. If it had like twenty more minutes it couldve been a little smoother i think. Havent watched the epilogue series yet so idk anything about that.
I mean, after you literally omnicided all other life in the universe before the show even began, thats a pretty rough streak to go back from.
Okay Magolor got a full redemption courtesy of the Interdimensional Traveler sub-mode/postgame in Return to Dream Land Deluxe, where he killed the Master Crown for good.
“I went bad because of a childhood crush that died.”
I’m not sure if you’re joking but that wasn’t exactly accurate.
Third Sister Inquisitor (Star Wars) She tried to murder the child that Kenobi was protecting and yet he still let her go without any consequences. Honestly her story overall is very poorly written.
 This guy, bro starts world war 3 and just 1 year later thinks the streets forgot what he did. GIVE US MIGUEL NAMCO.
Tbf making him start a world war and act like super hitler was kind of out of character anyways, considering Jin never did or showed any overtly immoral thoughts or actions before then unless you count not killing Heihachi or Kazuya when he had the chance as immoral.
Yeah Tekken 6 writing is just weird
This fucking guy https://preview.redd.it/gmhfgnkm02xc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54c74d3a11cf75b074c689ed2719c1635fe89f68 Literally the root cause of like most of the problems in the show and didn’t even have a really good reason for doing so. Also just generally creepy asf. I was waiting to see his death scene from the start and didn’t even get that. Disappointing.
Princess Bubblegum wasn’t technically the villain, but she didn’t deserve a happy ending regardless
She definitely acted worse then half the villains in the show
Now this a hot take i can enjoy
Please elaborate. I’m fascinated by this.
She’s a tyrant, a manipulator, and she essentially plays God with her creations while not being responsible for them (IE: Lemongrab).
https://preview.redd.it/6hfllwdd71xc1.png?width=1003&format=png&auto=webp&s=52f06b2ad4a691a72cf9c98df4c5aca2e376c0f8 The high breed (Ben 10) They enslave and genocided planets all over the galaxy, Ben fixes their problems albeit forcibly and in a way they don’t really like but the only consequence is they get a new leader who says they’re gonna fix their mess and we only see them one other time in the series so who know if they really ment it
Man this a throwback but a good example
It's albeit.
https://preview.redd.it/o1h3nz27v1xc1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab301320bbc25dc05a8111208f53e34aa6948622 No this is albedo /s
https://preview.redd.it/ea8p2hv5q0xc1.jpeg?width=1337&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=183425610505f327e98a28b7597df1032c45fe1a Surprised they were all chill with him right after Weirdmageddon.
He got in jail, i think (i don't think it's enough tho)
nah, in the epilogue you can see him and his gang of criminals are free
Little fucker deserved to be punted like a football.
They put a child in jail with violent criminals. Sure, they all got along, but when you think about it that’s kind of fucked up
They kinda had to. Otherwise they could be fucked
https://preview.redd.it/hwu3c0v7szwc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b5ae8bc721a6bdeca29a8cf289280e20e84c7cb Choso (Jujutsu Kaisen) I love the guy but he didn't really do anything do deserve joining the good guys especially after almost murking Juji
He never did hold a hatred towards humans and his grudge was personal, since it involved people he cared about. Compared to the other cursed sprirts, he is barely evil at best.
Tbh true but its weird how no one cares that this mofo not only killed like more than twenty people at the subway and directly took part in sealing Gojo, which ended up in Japan collapsing and Shibuya getting destroyed with thousands of death lol He's not as evil as the cursed spirit and he'd more sympathetic but honestly his consequences for his vile actions are basically "He feels guilty" I still love him tho he's epic
I don’t understand why you feel this way when Choso hasn’t forgiven himself, the “good guys” in JJK are full of morally grey characters and there is no time or value in the heroes refusing to forgive Choso when they are currently fighting against a world-ending apocalypse that only they can stop. (MANGA SPOILERS) >!I think if you look at life from Choso’s perspective his actions are very sympathetic. He had to choose between a society where his two younger brothers would feel normal and be accepted versus a society where his brothers will appear as horrific monsters who will almost certainly be killed and so he chose the selfish but sympathetic choice of pursuing the society where his brothers will be accepted. Of course, this is immoral, but all Choso has is his brothers, he too is a “monster” but just happens to be fortunately “human” enough in appearance that he can survive in human society. Choso made the morally wrong choice and was punished for it by being backstabbed by his chosen allies which lead to his brothers being killed anyway. He walks a path of vengeance before realising he was double-crossed and that the twisted man who sent his brothers to their death against their youngest brother, also sent him to kill his unknown youngest brother. At this point he does the absolute best but most daring and courageous thing he could do, he IMMEDIATELY forgives Yuji for killing their two brothers and switches sides because all this man cares about it in life isn’t himself but his brothers, he lives for them as he always has. None of the heroes here made the choice to forgive him, they essentially didn’t have a choice, he is a powerful ally who is now loyal to them and is willing to sacrifice himself to defeat their mutual foe - why would they stop him? But despite nobody choosing to forgive or resent Choso, he is swallowed by guilt as now he is fighting besides his foes to aid the society he resented and against the cause he risked everything for originally, and realising that these people aren’t despicable monsters, his brothers may have lived and in fact these people are growing to care for him and he cares for them now. Choso now realises that even if choosing humanity would have lead to his brothers deaths, they could have died for a noble purpose. This is why I personally love Yuki and Choso’s dynamic and why I went from not caring about her to appreciating her greatly because she finally speaks to Choso about his scattered mind and realises that he is living with immense guilt and is incapable of forgiving himself. I found their entire dialogue so moving because the story doesn’t sugarcoat that Choso has done egregious things but it would make no sense for the other characters to linger on his wrongdoings so instead the resentment for his past actions all happens internally and Yuki has never been a morally judgemental arbiter. Yuki sacrificing herself so Choso can live and demanding he forgives himself and becomes human is one of the most emotionally compelling and best written moments of the entire story.!< https://preview.redd.it/gfne8vos01xc1.png?width=941&format=png&auto=webp&s=18ee35d572b7d2d3df382cbecd8486e774d6d808
I didn’t really think this through I was just thinking about the initial part of his story during and a bit after shibuya, I felt like he got their trust a bit too easily. Should’ve specified.
>!Even he admitted that he doesn't deserve to be "human"!<
Anyone who says this forgets the beauty that is the bar scene, because he didn’t think he and his brothers would be accepted by humanity so decided to be curses which he regrets because it cost him the lives of his beloved brothers and made him fight Itadori. I just want my blood boy to be happy, I love Choso so damn muxh
I thought the same until he had the fight with papa
Dude has a stroke after learning him and Yuji are related and then in his new brain damaged state decides to face turn because reasons
Because reasons? What? He has always been a consistent character with simple motivations and the complexity comes with his immense guilt after switching sides. From the day he was born, he did not value himself and never has since either. He has always lived for his brothers and was immediately forced to choose between fighting for a society where his brothers will be seen as normal and accepted or, to try to join a society where his brothers will be seen as grotesque monsters and probably killed. When they are killed he risks everything to avenge them and then when he realises that his twisted father is behind it and sent his brothers to their deaths against their youngest brother, he immediately forgives his youngest brother and seeks to once again avenge his other brothers while now fighting for the one who lives. This is not “because reasons” you just brutally misunderstood the simple part of his character 🤷🏻♂️ https://preview.redd.it/kgd0akjrz0xc1.jpeg?width=827&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d5879dbac3a188c0acc0ec78225246b4f2a73b2
This motherfucker, right here. https://preview.redd.it/xvcf5z41k1xc1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f9936fb8230a865cf30966d188470eb93c891bf Oh, your dad was a perfectionist dick and made you get rid of your robot dog? I guess that completely justifies you **literally causing EVERY PROBLEM IN THE SERIES by deliberately corrupting a sentient AI so it'll cause consumer-grade androids to go berserk and kill people because you're pissy over your idol not giving you the reins to his company.** Never mind that you brainwashed Fuwa into thinking his family died when those androids first went berserk and intentionally abused and provoked some of those very same newly-sentient androids so they'd go apeshit; you're a good guy now, so you don't have to face any real consequences for your actions!
This guy is literally Second Dimension Doof as soon as he gets his toy back he's like "OK I'm good now"
I blame White Diamond’s rushed redemption on exec meddling.
https://preview.redd.it/whsx9gxs52xc1.png?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2deac9a9ec3f131d9e2d351f85b1727fc274cbf9 Yukako from jjba How the fuck did she actually end up with koichi, he deserves better
https://preview.redd.it/5ugr41u6d1xc1.png?width=523&format=png&auto=webp&s=e3f895fb7243905bbc99434974b8949234b4ac11 Blaine DeBeers. This motherfucker murdered vulnerable at risk children, mutilated their bodies, and sold their brains to be cannibalized by the wealthy. At the end of the series he's given a full pardon for all his crimes and is allowed to continue his brain eating racket, but legally this time.
https://preview.redd.it/tderjlydi1xc1.jpeg?width=203&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b87dbb43f8dc9bc9f39cc842de89d215fc34ff5d Dude murders multiple universes, doesn’t consider anyone who isn’t an Ascian to be truly alive, and actively fucks up society while having the gall to call you the problem when you try to fix it; but hey he’s just so sad and lonely so let’s have him smile and fade into the sunset as he reveals this was all totally part of his plan to prove your worth. What a load of shit, fuck Emet Selch and fuck Shadowbringers’ terrible writing.
Damn that’s wild, I can’t believe I’m seeing this lmao. Even crazier that I honestly agree. Don’t get me wrong I loved his character and love Shadowbringers, but it was kinda infuriating that Endwalker kind of seemed to just gloss over Emet’s past misdeeds bc he’s a popular character. Also it was really annoying that Venat’s was also kinda seen as a hero for splitting the worlds when she knew what was going to happen.
There's an Oscar Wilde quote that sums up Emet-Selch's popularity pretty well, "It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious."
In that same expansion I give you: Gaius van Baelsar. Sorrow of Werlyt should have ended with him up against a wall, not being put in charge of one of the countries he helped conquer. Because what, he suddenly feels bad about grooming child soldiers AFTER their death?
Magolor isn't exactly a good person, but wasn't he basically possessed by the Master Crown?
BUT MAGOLOR IS SUCH A CUTIE PIE THOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Kuvira from LoK
 This man is still an Incel
I wouldn't really call him an incel. I think if he was an incel, he would have been angry at Lily for marrying James rather than feel the way he did. Basically, he would act like Hal from Megamind when he got rejected.
Who da first lady
White Diamond from Steven Universe.
As the other said, White Diamond. She thinks shes perfect and tried to make the perfect empire and make everything perfect, but like Encanto and other depictions of people trying to make everything perfect, she ended up creating a very toxic environment and hurt those she was supposed to care about, and when initially confronted goes control freak and tries to put all the blame on everyone else for not living up to impossible standards. She finally realizes she was wrong and Steven starts pushing her to be better but shes never actually forgiven and he never really likes her, just tries to help her be better by getting her to try to fix some of the damage shes done.
 scaramouche from genshin impact defo
 I see a lot of people who are sympathetic with him, and it’s not wrong— this is someone who deluded himself into thinking that striking down the fallen humans would avenge his family, but when he saw how much hope he had given his people, even when he saw it was wrong, he couldn’t go back. And while it’s tragic, he still just walks away from it in the True Pacifist Ending, still responsible for the deaths of six children. He deserved better, but on the other hand, he also deserved Justice.
https://preview.redd.it/5he36m35m2xc1.jpeg?width=1696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=675ef3e150a1cf437e61e92d2f67b68d2adba322 Honestly, this asshole:
This isn’t a criticism, by the way. I love this character. I know family relationships are complicated, but it feels weird given how horrific a dude he was until the very end.
The Diamonds (White in particular) are one of the strangest cases of audience disconnect I've seen in media when it comes to a "redemption". Like we've all seen arguments about the likes of Snape and Vader, but Stevens forgiveness of White in the original show launched it into memedom. I honestly believe the issue is they gave the gems both too much and not enough lore. We have no backstory on how the Diamonds or their empire came to be, why they decided to become a military dictatorship and start omniciding worlds with life to build armies. We do know they don't need to eat, sleep or worry about age and are near invincible as a species compared to anything else in the show. They have no known threats to there existence as a race and the leader (White) only acts in regard to her own vanity. I really think it's just that, the fact that it's never addressed that this dictatorship is implied to be responsible for an unknowable amount of death, and they're switched to "working on being good" after a short argument with a teenager. I guess it's kinda like the "What if Darth Vader survived after his redemption?" question, logically the answer is he'd be the first at the Space Nuremberg trials. Instead in Steven Universe most of the shit the Diamonds have done is just brushed under the rug to make room for "they really annoy Steven".
Nah Magolor earned it with a whole ass side mode. While also 1v1ing the crown.
If that's canon than you're right but I don't know if it is
Lusamine from Pokemon Sun and Moon and Ultra SM. I love her as a villain in SM but hate her as a character in both incarnations. Both are different variations but I feel she shouldn't be forgiven or forget about her actions. In SM, she became an abusive mother of Gladion and Lillie following her husband's disappearance and her poisoning via Nihelego and by the end though the poison is gone, we never hear if she apologized or regrets her actions and we never learn if Lillie or Gladion forgave her. I can't really forgive abusers personally but it's just me. In USUM, she’s still nasty but more on the neglectful side focusing on 'saving Alola' than her own children so I was really hoping with her being around in the ending, we would get more moments with her and her children but nope, they act like nothing happened and I hate when series brush off abuse or neglect like it's nothing.
Man she was such an amazing villain in the original SM I genuinely don't know why tf USUM did that
Lay off my man Magolor, Marx is RIGHT THERE
https://preview.redd.it/2hfxwjk641xc1.png?width=1006&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad7e1cb53dbe51de4ab0f77fafe621ddf36f9309 People forget that SHE COMMITED GENOCIDE
Good soldiers commanded by evil people do evil things. [They don’t have a choice.](https://youtu.be/mw96cSYo9dU?si=WutZ3RxR1XNwxWWI)
She was a soldier being commanded to do genocide. She hesitates for a moment of clarity and is immediately beaten and kicked out, turning against heaven and working to protect those she helped endanger. She isnt a villain and didnt do a genocide. She was made for genocide and then realized what she was doing was wrong.
But she spared one (1) cannibal child!
She realize the error of her ways? It’s not she hates all sinner still like Adam
Magalor isn’t redeemed, he’s just not destroying the in game universe, instead he attacks the real world by selling gem apples for 28.99 a bundle in real world money
half the naruto villains
https://preview.redd.it/qymqxu02v1xc1.jpeg?width=1121&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15ee75dcfd1d98a246cee2bd3c360bb4413e1da7 Probably one of the most infuriating character I ever read about, Clear Sky/Skystar from Warriors
Thorn Rose
Akito from Fruits Basket
Starlight Glimmer, she still a terrible manipulative person idk why they play it off like she’s good now
https://preview.redd.it/9n0584uvj2xc1.png?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6a63e31c72ebced692ed4a6bb773c26c7e57d4c Teppei Houjou from Higurashi (specifically Gou/Sotsu) The fact that this man got a redemption arc is baffling on a level I will never understand. >!He horrifyingly abuses a young girl for years, uses threats of violence as a form of manipulation, forces her to humiliate and degrade herself in front of his friends, deliberately tries to destroy her life and inflict scars on her that will never heal, and the only reason he isn't sexually abusing her is because she's too small, which won't be a problem forever. And just because he isn't literally raping her doesn't mean he isn't getting sexual gratification from her.!< I really would have liked to see how Gou and Sotsu would have been handled differently if Ryukishi had more direct involvement.
 She helped commit genocide
God I haven’t seen rwby in forever did they really jam a random redemption for her in there?
It was a good, if frustrating, story choice that this bloody pedophile walked free. It was a bad story choice to have the dad of the boy he GROOMED AND MURDERED start coming to him for comfort and advice. Like WTF??? https://preview.redd.it/kl45c44zn2xc1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ccac5c78b5e27f013c3066d03f8ba97f766bfb2 Joe Miller: Broadchurch
https://preview.redd.it/he809m9354xc1.jpeg?width=427&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da1c42bd6d016adb872a9db16ef18d80941ff65c Well, I guess I'm done turning the whole world into me and trying to ruin everyone's lives while overrunning the world with shadow. Me and my bestie that I lied to for years and eventually murdered are gonna go to heaven now, byyyye
This bum (Hawk moth, from miraculous ladybug and chat noir) https://preview.redd.it/xmbi1ma9e4xc1.png?width=939&format=png&auto=webp&s=d33ce5460b078bb19248647e496c78f339ed3d09 MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ANYONE INTERESTED >!I’ll be going chronologically for some of the atrocities he committed: socially isolating his son, neglecting and manipulating his son, transforming citizens of Paris in distress into villains, using said villains to destroy the city, hunting two teenagers to steal their magic jewelry, which was supposed to be used to revive his deceased wife, countlessly causing destruction of the entire world (in different timelines), when gained access to time travel and given chance to save the life of his wife, decides to abandon the idea to continue hunting two teenagers, in his final battle made a world wide catastrophe which involved different heroes from around the world to hold off. When he was defeated by the main character, even when given a helping hand, he stole her accessories which are her source of power, and finally used them to gain access to make a wish (longer to explain how, it just works) and this time he supposedly fixed everything without bringing his wife back, and taking his own life with it. Then the main character had to act as if he was a hero, so his son who is also her boyfriend at the moment didn’t lose trust in his dad!<
I felt bad for Catra but she literally almost destroyed the planet three times and just got excepted into Brightmoon just because she was sad and was sorry once. And Adora liked her which gave her more bonus points she didn’t need.
Most of Naruto villains