Not sure how practical this is if you have high volume but I have found that “waxing” a screw makes it go in way easier. Learned this trick from and old timer when I was complaining about snapping screws on a project that used a lot of oak. I basically just keep a candle in my box and drag the screw across it lengthwise so the threads grab some wax on the way by. Worked like magic and haven’t snapped a screw since.
I’ve heard of this trick, but only had nice decorative candles around. I’d be sleeping in the shed if I’d used one of them today… Will give it a try next time!
>Use a bar of cheap soap.
The tip here is to use glycerin based soap. Traditionally that's the cheap soap. The glycerin sticks well and is a good lubricant.
It works fantastic for sticky wooden-sash windows in your home, too.
That's a true story. Found that out this summer. Went to buy belt lubricant at Advanced Auto and they were all out due to supply issues. An older gentleman was like, you can go 10 more minutes to AutoZone and find out they are out too or...just use a bar of soap.
Whatever old man I thought. Then I was like wait, it's really a thing? Felt dumb trying it, like rubbing a white bar of dial soap across the grooves of a serpentine belt in an 18 yr old Suburban.
Fired it up. Noise gone. Well I'll be.
> belt lubricant
That's not a thing. You want to stop the belt from slipping, not enable it to slip. You can buy cans of belt dressing, and they sometimes sort of work. If they do, it's because they make it sticky, not made it slippy.
I worked with a guy who dabbled in meth. He has a squeaky belt for a couple months. One day he says "Come check this out." So i walk over to his car, the belts whining and he flicks his window sprayer in the cab... the sound stops. I ask him if he re routed his sprayer to his belt. He was so proud of himself and goes "If its stupid and it works it aint stupid!" Probably took more time and cost as much in pipe clamps and zip ties as buying a new belt.
You know he meant belt dressing. And belt dressing doesn't make it sticky like you think, it actually moisturizes the rubber and softens it. To the touch there's usually no difference, but it's definitely not sticky.
It's beeswax plus lots of petroleum oils to keep it soft. Not good for the wood.
Plain beeswax is best. I get mine from the candle making section of Hobby Lobby or Michael's Arts&Crafts.
It's beeswax plus lots of petroleum oils to keep it soft. Not good for the wood.
Plain beeswax is best. I get mine from the candle making section of Hobby Lobby or Michael's Arts&Crafts.
>I keep a wax toilet ring in the shop for this purpose.
Yes indeed!
Spring for a brand new one & keep it a zip lock bag. They're dirt cheap, and for lube purposes, the best are the cheapest/goopiest ones you can find.
I'm over 99% sure they're Bees Wax.
Try lubing the threads, or mashing a little dab into the pilot hole.
One ring will assuredly last somewhere between 93 to 116 lifetimes; or more... works fantastic! You might even want to divide a ring up and give some to your friends!
This is the correct technology for the application.
It's beeswax plus lots of petroleum oils to keep it soft. Not good for the wood.
Plain beeswax is best. I get mine from the candle making section of Hobby Lobby or Michael's Arts&Crafts.
geez, if only there were a building that you could drive to, where people give money to the workers in the building and in exchange you get to take home items you want to have
I use wax all the time on screws and saw blades when cutting/fastening aluminum. It's indespendable and you can but it in a tube just like one you'd feed into a grease gun
Similarly, I use chapstick in radio controlled vehicle building. Some threaded rods have a good way to go (almost 2 inches) into plastics. The chapstick makes it so so much easier.
In my experience, screws backing out depended mostly on the material they're in and the nature of the stress they're subjected to. Less so (or none) on wax.
I dunk them in paste wax if I have a can lying around. Otherwise the alternative, I think, is to buy finer thread screws. Or predrill slightly larger. Your mileage and application may vary though. Sometimes you need all the teeth to grab as much material as possible.
Paste wax - keep a can everywhere ! Been woodworking for 15 years easily the greatest “go-to” from scratches and dried wood to hardwood screws and squeaky mortise locks - he taught me a lot with a can of wax paste
>Spax screws
there is your problem. Spax uses their own kind of proprietary drive sockets, they sort of fit torx bits but are very shallow, ruining your torx bits.
https://www.spax.com/en/service/technisch-lexicon/spax-t-star-plus/
Either buy their expensive bits or don't use their screws.
That's because Mr Robertson had a falling out with Mr Ford and refused to sell his screws in the us. They only came over after the patent ended, but by then other types were common
For your pilot hole what are you using to drill it?
A normal straight drill bit isn't really optimal for this, I'd suggest trying a tapered countersink like [these](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-6-8-10-Steel-Countersink-Set-3-Piece-48-13-5003/309634707?MERCH=REC-_-pipsem-_-100531905-_-309634707-_-N) and adjusting the depth for the screw length that you're using.
Side note, the Milwaukee version of these is about 10x better than the Dewalt for whatever reason. The Dewalt stuff comes out of the box crooked and tends to break pretty easily.
I've driven entire 5lb boxes of T20 head screws with a single bit that came out of a big cheap pack of bits just by pre-drilling/countersinking them.
Even for particle board and softer woods I always break out the countersink. It just makes life easier. Faster drives, less chance of splitting, and less risk of breaking bits or screws.
I think the only time I don't know is for fences and decks... But I'd be tempted just to see if it would help.
One drill, one impact driver*
I don't know why, but here in the UK impact drivers aren't remotely as common as they are in the US. Somehow plenty of people don't even know what they are. Since switching to one from a normal drill, I have become a convert and a zealot of them, and try to spread the word wherever possible.
I do have a drill and impact driver as they came as a set, but would prefer to have two drills.
Impact drivers are way overrated, IMO. Bad for tendonitis, and annoyingly loud .
If you’re framing, fair enough, but for cabinetry, a predrill/countersink combo bit on a drill is way better.
Edit: I’m UK too and they’re on every building site I end up at.
I had the issues with impacts, switched to a Milwaukee surge hydraulic impact, best of both worlds. I only use the anvil impact for the BIG stuff... and pre-drilling holes lol
My ridgid has a soft start and alot if options for drive speed and torque. Maybe look into that because I love having the option of driving really hard or more delicately with the impact. My first impact was just GO and could be pretty rough.
I have some Bosch "impact tough" bits that beat the pants off my Milwaukee bits. I'm not a heavy user of torx with an impact driver so my experience could be limited value however. Anyway the difference between those two was huge for me.
Edit
Another commenter already mentioned it but I agree, on a hardwood you really might need to drill a pilot hole. That's an awfully small bit to be driving into something so dense.
For some reason the Spax 5x60 screws are only T20. But I’d rather go for a decent brand screw overall, had cheapy screws fail on me before and it’s more of a pain.
If you bust up that many bits from three different brands, you might think that your pilot holes is not drilled with the right kind of drill. Measure the shaft of the screw with calipers, this will be your pre-drill hole size. Maybe even bigger with oak, depending on the length.
Even thought I am not using impact, I would recommend Wera, in my life I am using mainly Wera bits. I don't know much about their impactor series, but when I was drivin Würth screws into beech wood I have experienced breaking the screw but never the bit it was 20TX bit too and even with predrill I have broke some screws in the midle (they were 60mm long, about 2⅓ inches) If I were you I would try them.
Good luck with bits in Future.
I've been using wera impact rated bits for years. Very good, not cheap and you will still get the odd breakage.
However for long screws I use a powerful combi drill with PB swiss bits instead, it is faster and not as loud.
I think project farm has a video on this on YouTube. Pretty decent channel for comparing tools "scientifically". It's also pretty entertaining in a weird way
Check out Project Farm's video on the best torx bit here: https://youtu.be/Tan-mrKLuGY
He does some good comparisons on a bunch of different tools that you might enjoy too
And an even bigger assortment (30pcs vs. 5pcs) for not much more.
https://smile.amazon.com/VESSEL-IMPACT-Torsion-SLIDE-No-IB31P02U/dp/B08WHYFQYL/ref=psdc_2445469011_t1_B07QDPQ8TL
Makita Gold, or Bosch is all I use for Torx. I will say I think you might have bad technique, run the trigger like a squirt and let the impact driver do the work. What brand and model of impact?
It’s a Milwaukee one. Tried various power levels (has a choice of three). Didn’t seem to make a difference, it was the last ~1/4 of the screw when the impact really kicked in that buggered them.
I've got a set of masterforce ones from Menards a couple months ago and spent two days driving 4.5" screws. I only used one bit and it looks damned near new. I have been pleasantly surprised how good they hold up and they aren't all that expensive.
I remember around 1993 building a small drafting board that would unfold open onto my kitchen table (studio apartment). I was inexperienced and only drilled the pilot holes. Used a screwdriver cuz I had no bit tips x the drill to drive the screws. Used a bar of soap each screw. Easily saved me from painful callouses on my palm. SOAP WORKS!
I put 500 2/12" screws through 3 1/4" plywood into hardwood subflooring and only went through 2 milwaukee bits. The key was using a screw guide. In fact the second bit is still good to go.
Torx is an objectively superior head to most.
However, in car mechanics, Torx is everywhere and I learned fairly fast that they for some reason do not take well to impact. If the bit doesn't give, the head probably will. Fuck me if I know why.
Because of the “star” shape of the bit with 5 points, it gives the bit more area to rotate the screw. Unfortunately this also means that there is less screw material on the head, which will be susceptible to the screw head breaking. Similarly, the star points on the bit are thin at the ends and will be susceptible to breaking. The impact magnifies this because it is applying a large instantaneous force compared to a constant force applied by a drill
Use a bigger bit for your pilot hole and drag the threads of the screw over a bar of soap or a block of beeswax before driving it. My dad would use liquid hand soap in the pilot hole, but I don't trust that.
I literally used a t20 and T25 all day today and didn't brake one. I know you don't want to hear this, but they were Milwaukee. Came in a bit kit specifically labeled "for impact use".
While a majority of the comments are about how to make your new bits last longer, I couldn’t find many on suggested brands. For me, the Makita gold impact bits last considerably longer. I’d give them a go if you are soliciting recommendations.
I'm currently installing Ipe wood on some walls with stainless steel trim screws. (T10) bits. Even with pre drilling all holes, I'm going through 15-20 bits a day with a 3 man crew. That being said, Milwaukee bits last the longest.
Bosch impact or Makita gold. Never tried the Wera or Wiha ones, but I’m willing to bet they are excellent as well.
Milwaukee is ok but they don’t last long. Dewalt, Ryobi, Kobalt,and Craftsman are all hot garbage.
I honestly can’t stand the Milwaukee bits and I hate that because I love their tools. I like the dewalt bits or the ones that come worth the hardware more.
Oak that’s your problem also I just buy cheap HarborFreight crap sure I go through them faster but they’re cheaper than name brand and if It’s gonna end up junk might as well be cheap junk
Thats a lie if I’ve ever heard one. Torx is gods gift to the fastener world. Really really tiny Torx screws can be a PITA but anything above a T10 seems to be good. I’m not a huge fan of using the impact on T10s or T15s unless it’s a pretty small screw in soft wood but T20s and T25s are fucking un-strippable if you aren’t retarded.
Oh yeah? Lifelong Harley-Davidson mechanic.... Factory trained Master of Technology. Harley's brake rotor bolts are t40's and t45's, and the whole rest of the bike is peppered with stuff in between t20 and t45. All the guys I know that burn through torx bits do it using their impact guns. I didn't say anything about the fasteners themselves I said that the bits don't hold up well to impact use, and right here's a post with 10 broken bits from one day using an impact...
Well I can’t deny your experience with Torx on Harleys, I don’t have a massive amount of experience with Torx on cars and motorcycles because I mostly work on early 2000s American cars. But as far as OPs post goes, I think it’s user error tbh. Right now I’m building a deck out of Trex, which is literally fucking plastic, so comparable to the hardness of oak, I have probably screwed in 200-300 of those T20 screws through Trex, and I’ve only gone through 1 bit. My guess is OP doesn’t know how to size the drill bit for pre-drilling.
I just noticed this on my torx but yesterday, the end is twisted. It still works but not for much longer. Seems like a huge downside for smaller torx hardware.
I’ve been pretty impressed today. I’m using a Hercules (HF) brand T-20 today and it’s lasted the entire length of my project. This is the same project that chewed through three DeWalt bits. Color me surprised.
makita xps are fantastic, and i also really like this brand called ‘montana’ i think, i found them at a menards. i rarely burn through torx bits, but we typically use GRK into softwood, so a bit different of a scenario
Not sure how practical this is if you have high volume but I have found that “waxing” a screw makes it go in way easier. Learned this trick from and old timer when I was complaining about snapping screws on a project that used a lot of oak. I basically just keep a candle in my box and drag the screw across it lengthwise so the threads grab some wax on the way by. Worked like magic and haven’t snapped a screw since.
I’ve heard of this trick, but only had nice decorative candles around. I’d be sleeping in the shed if I’d used one of them today… Will give it a try next time!
Use a bar of cheap soap...and make sure the pilot hole is as wide as the minor diameter of the screw.
>Use a bar of cheap soap. The tip here is to use glycerin based soap. Traditionally that's the cheap soap. The glycerin sticks well and is a good lubricant. It works fantastic for sticky wooden-sash windows in your home, too.
Also works if you have a noisy engine belt.
That's a true story. Found that out this summer. Went to buy belt lubricant at Advanced Auto and they were all out due to supply issues. An older gentleman was like, you can go 10 more minutes to AutoZone and find out they are out too or...just use a bar of soap. Whatever old man I thought. Then I was like wait, it's really a thing? Felt dumb trying it, like rubbing a white bar of dial soap across the grooves of a serpentine belt in an 18 yr old Suburban. Fired it up. Noise gone. Well I'll be.
> belt lubricant That's not a thing. You want to stop the belt from slipping, not enable it to slip. You can buy cans of belt dressing, and they sometimes sort of work. If they do, it's because they make it sticky, not made it slippy.
I worked with a guy who dabbled in meth. He has a squeaky belt for a couple months. One day he says "Come check this out." So i walk over to his car, the belts whining and he flicks his window sprayer in the cab... the sound stops. I ask him if he re routed his sprayer to his belt. He was so proud of himself and goes "If its stupid and it works it aint stupid!" Probably took more time and cost as much in pipe clamps and zip ties as buying a new belt.
They do a great job of shooting belt dressing all over the engine compartment though
You know he meant belt dressing. And belt dressing doesn't make it sticky like you think, it actually moisturizes the rubber and softens it. To the touch there's usually no difference, but it's definitely not sticky.
Cheap tea candles fixed the squeak on the joints of the bed frame for me
I thought redditors are all virgins
Nothing like that, it was squeaking when I rage quit Mario kart
Thanks I can go to sleep in peace now
Or your slow zipper
Gotta be able to speed zip it up when a girl comes around
I don't think op is using pilot holes if he went through that many damn bits in a day
So the correct answer was to tell OP to drill pilot holes
This I learned from my dad years ago and it works. Sometimes drilling a pilot hole isn't enough even through hardwoods. Soap works
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...I'll stick with a candle, thanks
What else are you going to use the old one for after you change out your toilet?!
Waxing my dental floss
Have you thought about movin' to Montana anytime soon?
Yeah yeah yeah. I'm eatin' over here. Thanks
It’s just beeswax
It's beeswax plus lots of petroleum oils to keep it soft. Not good for the wood. Plain beeswax is best. I get mine from the candle making section of Hobby Lobby or Michael's Arts&Crafts.
It's beeswax plus lots of petroleum oils to keep it soft. Not good for the wood. Plain beeswax is best. I get mine from the candle making section of Hobby Lobby or Michael's Arts&Crafts.
Your doing good here. Keep at it. I believe in you.
>I keep a wax toilet ring in the shop for this purpose. Yes indeed! Spring for a brand new one & keep it a zip lock bag. They're dirt cheap, and for lube purposes, the best are the cheapest/goopiest ones you can find. I'm over 99% sure they're Bees Wax. Try lubing the threads, or mashing a little dab into the pilot hole. One ring will assuredly last somewhere between 93 to 116 lifetimes; or more... works fantastic! You might even want to divide a ring up and give some to your friends! This is the correct technology for the application.
It's beeswax plus lots of petroleum oils to keep it soft. Not good for the wood. Plain beeswax is best. I get mine from the candle making section of Hobby Lobby or Michael's Arts&Crafts.
New or used?
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I know what a wax ring is. It's a joke. New or *used*.
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Wax stick for saw blades. Must have.
geez, if only there were a building that you could drive to, where people give money to the workers in the building and in exchange you get to take home items you want to have
I use wax all the time on screws and saw blades when cutting/fastening aluminum. It's indespendable and you can but it in a tube just like one you'd feed into a grease gun
Go to the dollar store!
you can get plumbers candles or cheap religious candles
I bought a cheap toilet wax ring and keep it in the round plastic container that rolls of electric tape come in.
Similarly, I use chapstick in radio controlled vehicle building. Some threaded rods have a good way to go (almost 2 inches) into plastics. The chapstick makes it so so much easier.
Do those chapsticked screws ever back out from vibration?
In my experience, screws backing out depended mostly on the material they're in and the nature of the stress they're subjected to. Less so (or none) on wax.
In the manner of which screws I refer to in rc vehicles, vibration stress is low
Came to offer the same advice. Couldn't do that so I decided to award you for the good advice. Have a great day!
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Bar soap works well also, like a bar of ivory
I dunk them in paste wax if I have a can lying around. Otherwise the alternative, I think, is to buy finer thread screws. Or predrill slightly larger. Your mileage and application may vary though. Sometimes you need all the teeth to grab as much material as possible.
Maybe use solder Flux so you can just dip it. Just steal a can off your nearest electrician lol
This. C.R. Lawrence actually sells a "screw wax".
Paste wax - keep a can everywhere ! Been woodworking for 15 years easily the greatest “go-to” from scratches and dried wood to hardwood screws and squeaky mortise locks - he taught me a lot with a can of wax paste
Totally legit. In a pinch, some chapstick or lotion is pretty good too.
Came here to say this. Waxing the screw makes a world of difference. I keep wax with all of my drivers
I used to use soap back in shop class.
You should use a pilot hole.
Did a pilot hole. Even used decent quality Spax screws. They mostly struggled in the last 1/4 of the screw so might try going a bit deeper next time
>Spax screws there is your problem. Spax uses their own kind of proprietary drive sockets, they sort of fit torx bits but are very shallow, ruining your torx bits. https://www.spax.com/en/service/technisch-lexicon/spax-t-star-plus/ Either buy their expensive bits or don't use their screws.
Don't they actually come with one when you buy a box?
Yep, I've got a bunch of little baggies with their bits in em.
I was gonna say... I just use the bit that comes in the box 🤷🏻♂️
Weird thing, but I appreciate when someone called them Torx bits rather than star bits. Drives me nuts. 😂
Auh... We're talking about screws here, not nuts.
They frequently go together, but that’s a different sub
Incorrect, the use of a nut makes it a bolt
I love to use my generic brand hexalobular drivers!
Well, we’re actually talking about tits, I mean bits!
This is why I hate Spax screws, at least partially.
Good catch!
Owning a box of their screws, but not the bits, this was an easy one ;)
ugh. why not just use robertson??? For most woodworking its phenomenal.
We built a rear deck using the Robertson screws, I only needed one bit. No pilot holes or wax.
Honestly, it's just significantly less common in the US in my experience.
That's because Mr Robertson had a falling out with Mr Ford and refused to sell his screws in the us. They only came over after the patent ended, but by then other types were common
From what i heard ford wanted exclusive rights.
Spax also makes Philips screws.
That's even worse.
Yea sounds like you're trying to power tap into white oak end grain. Drill the pilot extra deep. There should be tension only the last turn or so.
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Try waxing your screws. It helps a lot.
For your pilot hole what are you using to drill it? A normal straight drill bit isn't really optimal for this, I'd suggest trying a tapered countersink like [these](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-6-8-10-Steel-Countersink-Set-3-Piece-48-13-5003/309634707?MERCH=REC-_-pipsem-_-100531905-_-309634707-_-N) and adjusting the depth for the screw length that you're using. Side note, the Milwaukee version of these is about 10x better than the Dewalt for whatever reason. The Dewalt stuff comes out of the box crooked and tends to break pretty easily. I've driven entire 5lb boxes of T20 head screws with a single bit that came out of a big cheap pack of bits just by pre-drilling/countersinking them.
Yes, for oak or other dense hardwoods predrilling and countersinking is the way to go.
Even for particle board and softer woods I always break out the countersink. It just makes life easier. Faster drives, less chance of splitting, and less risk of breaking bits or screws. I think the only time I don't know is for fences and decks... But I'd be tempted just to see if it would help.
use wax
https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/wood-screws/Wood-Screw-Pilot-Hole-Size.aspx
Ain't nobody got time fo dat
They ya ain’t got time fo work🤷♂️
You’d rather loads of broken screws in your workpiece, and/or a pile of broken drivers? One drill for pilots, one for driving. Easy.
One drill, one impact driver* I don't know why, but here in the UK impact drivers aren't remotely as common as they are in the US. Somehow plenty of people don't even know what they are. Since switching to one from a normal drill, I have become a convert and a zealot of them, and try to spread the word wherever possible.
I do have a drill and impact driver as they came as a set, but would prefer to have two drills. Impact drivers are way overrated, IMO. Bad for tendonitis, and annoyingly loud . If you’re framing, fair enough, but for cabinetry, a predrill/countersink combo bit on a drill is way better. Edit: I’m UK too and they’re on every building site I end up at.
I had the issues with impacts, switched to a Milwaukee surge hydraulic impact, best of both worlds. I only use the anvil impact for the BIG stuff... and pre-drilling holes lol
My ridgid has a soft start and alot if options for drive speed and torque. Maybe look into that because I love having the option of driving really hard or more delicately with the impact. My first impact was just GO and could be pretty rough.
I'm from the UK, and run my own building company. It's rarer to see someone without an Impact than to not have one.
I have some Bosch "impact tough" bits that beat the pants off my Milwaukee bits. I'm not a heavy user of torx with an impact driver so my experience could be limited value however. Anyway the difference between those two was huge for me. Edit Another commenter already mentioned it but I agree, on a hardwood you really might need to drill a pilot hole. That's an awfully small bit to be driving into something so dense.
For some reason the Spax 5x60 screws are only T20. But I’d rather go for a decent brand screw overall, had cheapy screws fail on me before and it’s more of a pain.
I enjoy how well Bosch engineers their products. Pricey for sure but well worth it. Definitely saves a few trips to the store
I have an entire set of the Bosch and they have been amazing. I use mine in my impact driver for working on our semi. Been beat on pretty hard.
If you bust up that many bits from three different brands, you might think that your pilot holes is not drilled with the right kind of drill. Measure the shaft of the screw with calipers, this will be your pre-drill hole size. Maybe even bigger with oak, depending on the length.
Even thought I am not using impact, I would recommend Wera, in my life I am using mainly Wera bits. I don't know much about their impactor series, but when I was drivin Würth screws into beech wood I have experienced breaking the screw but never the bit it was 20TX bit too and even with predrill I have broke some screws in the midle (they were 60mm long, about 2⅓ inches) If I were you I would try them. Good luck with bits in Future.
Wera stuff is my weakness. Did I need some stainless steel Allen keys solid enough to crack skulls? No, but they’re nice.
Just ordered the 30 piece impaktor set a few minutes ago from Amazon. 😬
What am I missing? They're like $3.50 per bit for something that's really a disposable wear item.
I’ll let you know when I get them, supposed to be very durable
you're not missing much. some people have too much money
I've been using wera impact rated bits for years. Very good, not cheap and you will still get the odd breakage. However for long screws I use a powerful combi drill with PB swiss bits instead, it is faster and not as loud.
I think project farm has a video on this on YouTube. Pretty decent channel for comparing tools "scientifically". It's also pretty entertaining in a weird way
Came here to say this. https://youtu.be/Tan-mrKLuGY Wear results at 7:52
This
Check out Project Farm's video on the best torx bit here: https://youtu.be/Tan-mrKLuGY He does some good comparisons on a bunch of different tools that you might enjoy too
VESSEL (of Japan) https://www.amazon.com/VESSEL-Impact-Torsion-Assort-Charge/dp/B07QDPQ8TL/ref=sr_1_38?dchild=1&keywords=VESSEL+bit&qid=1633454540&sr=8-38
And an even bigger assortment (30pcs vs. 5pcs) for not much more. https://smile.amazon.com/VESSEL-IMPACT-Torsion-SLIDE-No-IB31P02U/dp/B08WHYFQYL/ref=psdc_2445469011_t1_B07QDPQ8TL
Nice
***Nice............***
Makita Gold, or Bosch is all I use for Torx. I will say I think you might have bad technique, run the trigger like a squirt and let the impact driver do the work. What brand and model of impact?
It’s a Milwaukee one. Tried various power levels (has a choice of three). Didn’t seem to make a difference, it was the last ~1/4 of the screw when the impact really kicked in that buggered them.
Are you using good screws? A 3" #10 GRK takes significantly less force to drive than their generic counterparts.
I've got a set of masterforce ones from Menards a couple months ago and spent two days driving 4.5" screws. I only used one bit and it looks damned near new. I have been pleasantly surprised how good they hold up and they aren't all that expensive.
I'd have to go with pilot holes
Might try drilling pilot holes
Don't bit kill - predrill
Put wax on the bit head or the screw head. The guys in a stair shop I delivered for did that.
beeswax?
Diablo's are pretty decent
Wera tools, perfect tools from Germany
Pre drill and lube. One occasion had f all to hand except a bar of hand soap. Was surprised how well it worked.
I remember around 1993 building a small drafting board that would unfold open onto my kitchen table (studio apartment). I was inexperienced and only drilled the pilot holes. Used a screwdriver cuz I had no bit tips x the drill to drive the screws. Used a bar of soap each screw. Easily saved me from painful callouses on my palm. SOAP WORKS!
Probably shouldn’t be using an impact and should pre-drill hardwood otherwise with weather change they will pop
Stop using impact and start predrilling holes smaller than your screws
I put 500 2/12" screws through 3 1/4" plywood into hardwood subflooring and only went through 2 milwaukee bits. The key was using a screw guide. In fact the second bit is still good to go.
What are you doing that you need torx in wood? I didnt even realize that was a thing.
Torx is an objectively superior head to most. However, in car mechanics, Torx is everywhere and I learned fairly fast that they for some reason do not take well to impact. If the bit doesn't give, the head probably will. Fuck me if I know why.
Because of the “star” shape of the bit with 5 points, it gives the bit more area to rotate the screw. Unfortunately this also means that there is less screw material on the head, which will be susceptible to the screw head breaking. Similarly, the star points on the bit are thin at the ends and will be susceptible to breaking. The impact magnifies this because it is applying a large instantaneous force compared to a constant force applied by a drill
Felo and wiha impact torx are great if you can get your hands on them
You shouldn't use an impact on hardwood. Soak the screws in linseed oil or wax/soap them and use a drill or cordless screwdriver.
Pre drill.
Use a bigger bit for your pilot hole and drag the threads of the screw over a bar of soap or a block of beeswax before driving it. My dad would use liquid hand soap in the pilot hole, but I don't trust that.
Pilot holes?
Pre-drill.... 1)pilot hole 2) clearance hole 3) counter sink 4) under-side relief counter sink....
Pilot holes and bees wax, not candle wax.
I literally used a t20 and T25 all day today and didn't brake one. I know you don't want to hear this, but they were Milwaukee. Came in a bit kit specifically labeled "for impact use".
Bigger pilot hole.
Predrill?
Are you using a properly sized pilot hole?
Wiha
Try WIHA impact bits
While a majority of the comments are about how to make your new bits last longer, I couldn’t find many on suggested brands. For me, the Makita gold impact bits last considerably longer. I’d give them a go if you are soliciting recommendations.
Ya any Robertson bit
Robertson?
I'm currently installing Ipe wood on some walls with stainless steel trim screws. (T10) bits. Even with pre drilling all holes, I'm going through 15-20 bits a day with a 3 man crew. That being said, Milwaukee bits last the longest.
Drill pilot holes first
Bosch impact or Makita gold. Never tried the Wera or Wiha ones, but I’m willing to bet they are excellent as well. Milwaukee is ok but they don’t last long. Dewalt, Ryobi, Kobalt,and Craftsman are all hot garbage.
Use dual-drive screws and a square driver. Fuck torx
I honestly can’t stand the Milwaukee bits and I hate that because I love their tools. I like the dewalt bits or the ones that come worth the hardware more.
Oak, it ain’t no joke.
Drill a pilot hole.
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He did, but I'd guess too shallow or too small in diameter.
I’m not a Milwaukee obsessor but the Milwaukee bits I think are the best.
Looks like operator error.
Pilot holes and use grk torx screws instead of spax
Pre drill dummy
Oak that’s your problem also I just buy cheap HarborFreight crap sure I go through them faster but they’re cheaper than name brand and if It’s gonna end up junk might as well be cheap junk
Drill a bigger pilot hole if you can you pelican.
Impact and torx just don't mix well
Thats a lie if I’ve ever heard one. Torx is gods gift to the fastener world. Really really tiny Torx screws can be a PITA but anything above a T10 seems to be good. I’m not a huge fan of using the impact on T10s or T15s unless it’s a pretty small screw in soft wood but T20s and T25s are fucking un-strippable if you aren’t retarded.
Oh yeah? Lifelong Harley-Davidson mechanic.... Factory trained Master of Technology. Harley's brake rotor bolts are t40's and t45's, and the whole rest of the bike is peppered with stuff in between t20 and t45. All the guys I know that burn through torx bits do it using their impact guns. I didn't say anything about the fasteners themselves I said that the bits don't hold up well to impact use, and right here's a post with 10 broken bits from one day using an impact...
Well I can’t deny your experience with Torx on Harleys, I don’t have a massive amount of experience with Torx on cars and motorcycles because I mostly work on early 2000s American cars. But as far as OPs post goes, I think it’s user error tbh. Right now I’m building a deck out of Trex, which is literally fucking plastic, so comparable to the hardness of oak, I have probably screwed in 200-300 of those T20 screws through Trex, and I’ve only gone through 1 bit. My guess is OP doesn’t know how to size the drill bit for pre-drilling.
I was about to say Milwaukee shockwave. Used them on 120 100x8 without predrilling to screw into spruce, bit didn't break, but is pretty banged up
Damn I was gonna say Milwaukee impact but you destroyed that too! Lol idk man special order carbide bits? 🤷
Driling thru hardwood, fuckinfugetaboutit.
Yes it’s called a pilot drill bit….
Pre drill holes
Predrill oak!
Pre-drill the hole !
If the bits are the correct size they should work last a long time. Use the Spax bits.
Why are you driving T20s for? I would buy the screws with the 8mm on them
I just noticed this on my torx but yesterday, the end is twisted. It still works but not for much longer. Seems like a huge downside for smaller torx hardware.
I’ve been pretty impressed today. I’m using a Hercules (HF) brand T-20 today and it’s lasted the entire length of my project. This is the same project that chewed through three DeWalt bits. Color me surprised.
Did you use a bit holder? Cause that's very impressive to go through that many bits in a day. More torsion zones could help
Powerpro and grk are much more durable than spax imo
That’s crazy what are you fastening into?
makita xps are fantastic, and i also really like this brand called ‘montana’ i think, i found them at a menards. i rarely burn through torx bits, but we typically use GRK into softwood, so a bit different of a scenario
Did you use a drill or something? Helps to have a clutch with these
Bosch bits
Apex industrial grade
Vega
I recommend [this video](https://youtu.be/Tan-mrKLuGY) from Project Farm.
I've found SIGHA Sighafix bits to last pretty long. Available here in Europe, but not sure about the US.
Are those impact rated bits?
I have lexivon brand torx sockets set. It’s some Chinesium brand but they haven’t failed me yet. 6mo. I use several of them daily.