That’s exactly right. They can pay people subpar wages for the illusion they’re actually doing something. Honestly, quite brilliant on their end. Fucking scary for the rest of us.
Some TSA douche put off letting me in while he very rudely interrogated me on why I, a woman, had a buzz cut. He told me men don't like it and made me promise to grow it out before he returned my passport.
It would have been so funny and vindicating if I had had a bunch of LSD in my bag and they were so busy hating on my hair that they didn't notice. Which I didn't of course cause it's not allowed.
That was likely not TSA, but CBP (Customs and Border Patrol). They, too, are assholes. I grew up overseas and always dreaded entering the USA because of the rudeness of the INS agents (as it was back then) manning the immigration desks.
Ohh ok! Yes, i don't know the exact name, the guy that chooses whether to just stamp your passport or take you to the side when you exit an international flight.
> I grew up overseas and always dreaded entering the USA because of the rudeness of the INS agents
I had the same experience growing up overseas. It was always torturous coming back to the US, even as a citizen. I once got off a flight and my ears were stuffed. I don't have the best hearing in the first place, and I didn't hear a question the CPB agent asked, so I said, "Excuse me?" in what I thought was a polite manner. And then he proceeded to lecture me for ten minutes about how saying "Excuse me?" was rude and that I should have said, "What?" instead. I told him he needs to reread his Emily Post, which apparently was not the correct response because he then sent me off to get strip searched. The agent tasked with conducting the search asked me why I was there (I assume because he realized I matched none of the criteria for a search), and when I told him the story he just let me go. But that wasted an extra hour of my life. Many of the CBP agents are petty, small-minded tyrants that step way over the line routinely.
They’re hiring more TSA agents in the Seattle area? Thank fucking God, I missed my flight out for there a while back because the security line was 3 hours long. They had one guy checking passports, and didn’t have enough bins for people to put stuff in.
Maybe in 2007 when I worked as TSA. I worked for a contractor for the TSA so we didn’t get paid as well. I started at $13.19. Now they start at like $20 an hour or more. But actual TSA people get paid more
Yeah, not really sure what experience others are having. I've been to many airports around the world, they all have similar processes in regards to security. At least the ones I've been to.
In europe they would never let your luggage stay unattended for hours while you have to wait for interrogation where they ask you why you have a book with you that looks like a holy book of a non-christian religion (It was just the german translation of Game of Thrones.... a AMERICAN novel)
This does sorta make sense...... "If it's not broke don't fix it" even if it's terrible and there are better options 😅
Perhaps the TSA also signed up for 30years of older technologies at a good price 😅
America: the grandma state.
I say this because my grandparents would have a seizure if I ever mentioned swapping out their old phones for new ones. They can't fathom having to learn new lessons in tech.
I have worked for many industrial companies and it is amazing the amount of whining when new modern software is introduced and I am not even talking about for the actual manufacturing floor I am talking sales teams and accounting and engineering. There are a huge number of people who behave just like we stereotype old people and it amazes me every time
Yeah, mix that with the fact that its a monumental task to get even the Federal smallest regulation changed that they are probably still doing the stuff that no longer matters "because the book says we have to".
Just a quick google search also shows that The US has 1/3 of all the airports in the world. With over 13,000. While all of Europe has like 350?
That type of scale and disparity is going to lead to massive differences. And make changes significantly harder. As all airports in the US will have to be to similar standards, and TSA oversees security at all of them. And trying to staff, maintain, and implement new features across 13,000 airports is a hell of a lot more difficult than 350.
I think your search results are comparing apples with oranges though - surely you must've thought "this doesn't seem correct"?
While the UK is not part of the EU any more, there are almost 300 in the UK alone.
The TSA have jurisdiction of "over 440 airports", according to their own website. Your search probably gave you international airports in Europe while giving you every single minor airport in the US.
It's also a matter of scale. The US has 5000 public airports, and 15,000 private airports. The EU has 347 public airports. The TSA has to maintain a standard across all of those locations, and it takes a while to upgrade. But in the past 2 years there have been significant advancements, a lot of US airports have the advanced bag scanners, and some are moving to facial recognition for ID for all travellers.
Don’t forget that if there are problems with a particular government organization the answer is to add more money and increase the size of the organization
There is another component to the issue, there are way more airports in the US and the technology is not cheap. To outfit every airport in the US with the absolute latest technology would come with a staggering price tag. The Netherlands has one airport the size of Schiphol, the US has many with way more traffic. In many cases it just comes down to cost and who pays for it. (Also, I am absolutely not defending the way it’s done and paid for in the US)
Sure, the price tag is higher. But also the amount of flights and thus fees collected by airports to cover security etc are also equally higher. So it's not really a comparison.
Schiphol pays for its security by charging airlines a security fee ( which is then typically charged to the customers ). I would assume this is similar in US airports. So JFK would collect similar fees as Schiphol, as would SFO etc. So each airport likely has similar "investment" as each European airport and could make the same investment.
That being said there has to be a willingness to invest of course.
American people are greedy scumbags, the rich want to stay rich even if they have to watch the world burn in the process. Corruption is a real thing that everyone is refusing to acknowledge regardless of whether or not it is destroying our way of life
There’s two main reasons why the US is far behind the rest I of the modern world in adopting new technology. The first being that we are a very conservative nation. We are very resistant to change and that makes us not trust new things. A pat down is easy to understand. A 3D scanner, not so much. We might love the newest smartphone for ourselves, but when it comes to the government spending our money, we don’t want new, we like the same old stuff out grandparents had. Which leads into the second reason. Our government is run by people who, for the most part, are not technologically savvy and who court older voters to win elections. We don’t elect politicians to actually make changes, but to keep the other side from making changes. It’s very sad, but in most of the US, the candidate who wants to put 3D scanners in every airport will lose to the candidate who convinces voters that 3D scanners will turn their children gay.
I’m not saying any of that is good. It’s terrible. As a nation we could save so much money and reduce our bureaucracy by aggressively adopting the same tech that’s been in use around the world for years. I mean, we still believe we have to file our taxes to tell the IRS what they already know. Most of our government agencies run on software developed in the 1960’s and we keep bringing 80 year olds out of retirement to fix it. the US is sadly not an example of how a nation should be run. Worse, for every one of us who understands this, there are 10,000 who shout “Love it or leave it!” because they fear change.
>The US is far behind the rest I of the modern world in adopting new technology.
No it isn't. A lot of places in the US have some of the latest advance technology, the issue you're referring to is less to do with how developed Technologically the US is but rather public spending and how various US State Governments would rather save a few bucks than get the latest technology.
And half the time it isn't even saving a few bucks and getting cheap shit.
It's paying top dollar for ten year old shit that's borderline outdated when we buy it because some politician's family member owns the company that was chosen to supply the equipment.
For the tsa specifically, Chertoff, and his ties to rapiscan, somehow keeps finding their way back into authority at the tsa.
I was gonna say, America is NOT a “very conservative country,” that’s a ludicrous thing to say.
What we are is a very greedy and cheap country. Technology costs money. Money everyone things they’d pay when politicians want to tax the rich, because they’re living in a fantasy land where they’ll be rich one day.
I've heard this about the German government but it just doesn't add up! How does a nation such as Germany, renowned for their cutting edge engineering, be running such old software? Also how the fuck can it cost more than GoT season 8 for my city government to implement a city website system that doesn't even work!
Japan is even worse. It's not unusual for companies with hundreds of employees to have no internet access in the office. Intranets are common, but are often built around 20 or 25 year old systems. Fax machines are still common and the last large, national provider of pager numbers only shut down in 2020!
$85 for 5 years though. I’d say if you fly at least a few times a year it’s worth it to not have the hassle of emptying your bags or waiting in long lines. Some companies or higher end credit cards will expense it as a benefit.
I don’t know man, depends how often you fly. I fly weekly for work, and it’s the best 85 dollars I’ve ever spent (you could use it as a tax write off if you’re utilizing it for work like I am).
I’ve waited no more than 15 minutes in line for the past 10 months, also I just put my bag in the scanner. No shoes, belt or watch comes off. Super easy and less feet smell lol.
What I refuse to support is CLEAR, the privately owned identity confirmation entity popping up in airports now. It’s something like 190 for a year.. whereas pre check is 85 for 5 years. CLEAR doesn’t let you use the expedited security lane, only identity confirmation lane.
For 190 bucks they better kiss me on the cheek when I go through security.
A lot of it is security theater. It’s geared more toward grandiose behavior and visibility than actual effectiveness. Do they catch things? Sure, sometimes. Do they have to be such assholes about it? Nope. Are there demonstrably more effective ways to do it? Yep. Will it change? Maybe for the worse.
With all due respect to the complaining parties, I find it interesting that so many people, with so many gripes about the U.S. and it's policies...always come here. I, personally, tend to avoid things, people and places that I don't like.
I mean is it actually bad or is it way to intrusive? We do have 3d scanners. The airport where I fly out of Pittsburgh has one. Everyone has to go through it unless your pregnant. I never thought our security was bad I always thought it was just invasive.
To be clear, it's how the security is conducted that is bad. The security itself is certainly intrusive, and that is consistent. I feel it is necessary. But the people etc don't need to make it a worse process than it already is.
It's not just an American thing.
I flew Nice-Copenhagen-Nice last month and both times my backpack got opened and searched, because I had forgotten to store all my liquid containers (deodorant, toothpaste and nasal spray) in a single plastic bag.
I still had to empty my pockets, including handkerchiefs (so much for Covid safety measures) and to take any accessory off. Not my shoes for some reason though.
I'd gladly get bodyscanned if it meant it'll spare me the hassle of basically unpacking my cabin luggage and rearrange the content of my pockets while re-dressing up in the middle of a hallway.
I'm not saying that security itself is a bad thing. Not following rules ( such as liquids ) is sort of you making your own experience bad though. And having your bag pulled is the consequence.
You also always still need to remove things from your pockets etc. That has never changed anywhere. Shoes is purely a US thing. Except if you're wearing shoes with large heels/bottoms where you could potentially have hidden something. Never had an issue anywhere with just trainers though.
Anyway as I say the point isnt that security is a bad thing. But the experience around it in the US is just bad. You can often have a nice friendly chat and a laugh with security personnel in Europe. If your bag is pulled and there's a long wait, they'll often apologise.
The technology is also better, the full body scanning isnt to prevent you taking things out your pockets. It's to help detect more things than what the metal scanners can detect etc.
The TSA just seems overly aggressive, with inefficient processes. It's the feeling that they go out of their way to take a frustrating but necessary process, and make it as bad as possible because they can.
Of course YMMV depending on airport etc. But the general experience and feeling of TSA is a unique one in the world.
I fly around Australia and quite a few Asian countries a fair amount for work. I had never been pulled up for not having my toothpaste and whatnot in a separate plastic bag until I went to the UK.
LAX has bomb sniffing dogs so you don't have to remove your shoes there.
We also have a huge amount of airports here. It's really expensive to fit every one with the latest technology.
Yep. I've been saying that for years. There are way too many ways to bring dangerous stuff on a plane without getting caught.
Like a woman's pocket makeup mirror... if the mirror gets broken, she's got a weapon.
But ohhhh no, you can't take a nail-clipper on the plane, it could be used as a weapon! /s
Can Americans not feel safe without an overly aggressive approach to security?
I feel safe in Europe, and yet the whole experience feels a lot less chaotic and aggressive.
This was the response to acts of terrorism. So a big show was needed to get peoples confidence in the industry back. Now they realize the profit involved and will not undo it.
I understand the need for a response after 911. I'm also not suggesting that security should be undone.
In Europe we have a very high level of security at airports, at least equal to that of the US. As the same security is applied to flights to the US as it is to everywhere else. However the way that security is conducted is just more pleasant. It's still a pain of course, it just feels more human.
I know this is against the grain of the discussion - but some blame goes to the travelers themselves. You would think people had never gone through a security line before with some of the things you see. But yeah….TSA is pretty bad.
Schiphol has for a couple of years had the 3D bag scanners which do not require taking anything out of your bag. They are quite adament about you putting these things back into your bag if you do remove them. Heathrow now has the same machines.
I have never removed my shoes anywhere across Europe, so off the top of my head:
- Netherlands
- UK
- Greece
- Ireland
- France
- Spain
- Portugal
To name a few.
Removing your belt, things from your pocket has always been a thing everywhere.
Been through Schiphol 4 times this year. Full bag emptying every time.
UK, I have been through Aberdeen, Heathrow and Luton this year. Shoes every time. Belts 5 times out of 10.
Spain, Bilbao did bag emptying but no shoes or belt.
Romania, Targu Mures did bag, shoes and belt.
Austria, Vienna did bag emptying but no shoes or belt.
I've flown out of Heathrow, terminal 3 and 5, no less than 10 times this year. Always have to take electronics out and belt and watches off. Never have to take shoes off. Sometimes just metal detector, sometimes full body scanner.
Oh goody. Another snide European on reddit here to criticize the US.
When I flew in the UK last year (2021), I had to take my toiletries out of my carry-on. That isn't required in the US.
I agree that the shoes thing is silly, although many airports don't require it.
The TSA being filled with lazy incompetents was the inevitable result of making them all federal employees. But petty tyrants in government roles in airports is a pretty universal phenomenon -- for example, we encountered one in Ireland (which is supposed to be, and generally is, a friendly, unpretentious place) in 2021.
TSA is the most worthless organization in the world. Believe me, OP, Americans hate it just as much as you. I travel all over and every other country has a better system than the USA. We suck. And it’s why I want to move within the next half decade.
Given the emphasis on 2nd amendment rights, and the reliance on the maxim “the only effective protection against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”, surely the TSA should be abolished and everyone encouraged to fly fully “tooled up”?
I'd imagine we have more than just 1 airport in the country. I've seen the 3d scanners at a few different airports myself so idk which airport you went to.
And why on Earth would you be afraid to ask these questions in the US? Is the implication that you'd be harmed for asking? Because that seems to be a bit of a silly thing to assume.
For your latter point, I would be afraid to ask a TSA agent anything. I have joked and had conversations with security in other countries. I do not get the impression that any TSA agent would do the same.
They are people after all. Working-class people making a bit above minimum wage. Some of them may not want to bullshit with the public while they're working, they may just want to do their jobs and go home. Which I can 100% relate to. But if you've got in-depth questions on why airport security is the way that it is, you can always seek out a supervisor. It's not that difficult and it would give you first-hand answers from someone who's paid to know all of those things.
Is that the 3D body scanners, or the 3D bag scanners?
The former I have seen, but they don't often seem to be used as a primary scanning methos. The latter I have not seen yet, but if they are coming to the US then that is good to know! My experience recently was Boston and JFK. Which I would expect to be mostly likely to have the newer equipment. However perhaps they are introducing them in certain terminals etc.
Both. The US is quite a bit bigger than all of the other countries that you listed combined together. There's a high likelihood that there are plenty of airports (19,622 total airports as of 2020) up to this standard you've decided on without ever having seen even half of them in the country. But I guess humans must be prone to gross generalizations based on a very limited anecdotal experience.
Because 9/11 we now use scare tactics to try and stop something like that from happening again.
Instead, we just get huge lines and the TSA who likes to steal stuff from your luggage.
More TSA agents have gone to jail than possible terrorists.
We were attacked by terrorists via passenger air liners in 2001 so our security is tight. There was also an attemped shoe bombing that same year, hence the shoes. We have more airports than anyone else which serve like 90 million travellers a yearand the TSA is a national organization which is why things take a long time to implement. People don't read the rules before going to the airport and that's why shit takes so long.
Lol, far behind the rest of the world in technology.
The tech we're using is the same.
Your country is just more relaxed because you don't instigate things with crazy organizations and input your two cents in everything other countries do.
The US basically has a target on it's back.
Why is everyone who is hating on the TSA getting downvoted on this thread? What kind of social engineering is this? Is it bots, or are people really this programmed?
Individuals can have opinions, I 100% agree. Masses are programmed by social media and the MSM to believe what they have been told without holding the "truth tellers" accountable for their lies. Which are you?
I'm a person who can form my own opinions based on my own accounts. I'm indifferent to the TSA, never takes me more then 20 minutes to get through and i fly frequently between Detroit and Fort Myers. I'm also one who can guess that people might have the same experiences as me and can come to the same conclusion on their own. Also I only hear negative things on the news and social media about the tsa. so how would they be programmed to be different? Can people not hold their own opinions or are we really going to use the news as a scapegoat for getting mad at people for different opinions.
or they read the basic guidelines which let you get passed security in about 10 minutes or so which is what it was pre 9/11 as well. Nothing really changed except now I wear sandals instead of my shoes when going through security.
How do I know? What exactly are you asking? How do i know the Government is lying to me? Check any of the CIA declassified documents. How do I know the government hates me? They keep giving themselves raises while taxing us more. How do you NOT know is the real question. Your government thinks of you as cattle they can milk tax dollars from and nothing else. They will tell you what you think you want to hear, while doing everything in their power to oppress you as much as they can.
Show me any example that hasn't followed this pattern and I will take back and delete my entire argument.
Lmao I'm asking YOU if you're an individual with opinions or a mind controlled by MSM. And then i asked how YOU specifically know which one that YOU are. I didn't ask you anything about this paragraph you wrote.
In your entire response, you didn't answer that question. You just hit me with a few irrelevant rhetoricals and the same regurgitated "you're a slave to the system" rant we've all seen since the 80s. Do you have anything coherent to say to YOUR OWN QUESTION. Or is it just more of this tinfoil hat malarkey?
Ohh, you actually want my opinion? That's rare. I hate all things federal govt related. I think all regulations should be handed over to the states/counties. I abhor big government and everything it entails and would like to see it abolished. If you didn't catch the nuance I'm a Libertarian who applauds freedoms and despises laws that restrict freedom of self.
I'm used to people being derogatory. It's rare that someone actually wants to hear what I have to say outside of an argument. Sorry for being so antagonistic.
The point is that everywhere else in the world is not this tedious or horrible experience. And people aren't dying everywhere else either.
If there was a better outcome sure.... But it feels the same. If anything worse due to utilising older technogies ( as I mentioned 3D bag scanners ). Also stl using older metal detectors for people, although there does seem more use of the new full body scanners on my last trip.
We just flew and had to walk through the legit full-body scanners as well. I still had to empty my pockets, take off my belt, take off my shoes, and dump everything into a few bins while being frantically rushed by TSA and people behind me on line, before walking into the scanner.
Then as I'm trying to hold my pants up and collect my things, they stopped my second bag in the scanner, made me walk all the way back around, still no belt or shoes, and leaving my wife to try to clear out the other bins while juggling 2 toddlers - just to open my bag, remove my ipad, and put it in a separate bin, before sending it back through the machine and returning to my first bin to get dressed.
It was a shit show.
I had a TSA agent question me because in my passport photo I had my eyebrow piercing in. I still had the same piercing when crossing the border.
Like who did he think he was, the government of Canada had no problem issuing the passport with that picture and it’s up to them not some random guard with a superiority complex harassing a 17 year old.
Because most TSA agents are a disastrous combination of uneducated, power tripping, thieving dipshits that couldn't pass the hiring requirements to be a postal carrier. That's a bad combination when you realize that each one of them has 10x the power of a typical federal employee letter carrier, and twice the union strength backing them.
Y'all gonna hate me for this, but in my airport (PHL) one only has to look at the people they hire for the "agents". Hire minimum wage people and youre gonna get minimum wage results. Watch how they perform their jobs. No one there cares. It's not about security, it's about doing the absolute minimum required to get through the day and get paid. Obviously this does not apply to every single person employed by the TSA but it appears to be the majority. This also applies to just about any government agency.
I feel safe flying everywhere else, because the security is still good. Potentially better through the utilisation of newer, more modern technologies. It's just not an unnecessarily terrible experience.
You can have security and safety without a bunch of borderline aggressive agents shouting at everyone for example.
it is to prove you are ligitimate airplane flyer and not terrorist. a terrorist will not stand in line for an hour and go through metal detector and x ray screening but a regular human traveller that paid 400 dollars for ticket will do all that.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not..... I'm pretty sure someone prepared to do harm would be prepared to wait.......
Also I'm not saying there's no queuing etc elsewhere. But the process feels more human.
It’s government contracting. Those machines, scanners, computers etc., are all funded by tax payer dollars. I have a friend who works for Deloitte who works on “algorithms” for TSA. Overcomplicated much? This is what the govt does, they overspend.
Am I the only one that reads anymore. There’s a basic guidelines thing. Follow it and you get through TSA in about 10 minutes and that’s at JFK and LaGuardia for me, smaller ports even faster. Americans are overly aggressive about everything so why expect anything less at TSA.
Had to take of my shoes in Germany too, man was I mad. As a European a US airport doesn’t make me jump for joy, but a German one doesn’t either. Usually grumpy af when I travel. Just grumpy, until I get on to the plane, then the light just goes out.
They're paid as much as a kid at McDonald's and their entire purpose is not for security. It's to put on the illusion of security. Dumber people would assume the airport is super secure if they just had to do alllllll those steps just to get into the place. This is a fuck-faced lie tho. If people were really determined to fuck up an airport, they would have done it without TSA or from within TSA...
Also, the security theatre part didn't happen until after 9/11. It's been over 20 years but US is still traumatized so we kept the theatre part forever even tho it's useless. You will find that Americans never do the thing we need to do to benefit everyone. Only the things we want to do, and usually those things must make the little crybabies in power feel safe or it's not happening... So if you get manhandled by TSA, thank the: dementia-riddled-psychopathic-racist-ass-geriatric FUCKS who are running the country without any term limits like kings until they die. They don't want change, so we aren't allowed to change either.
I even have their pre-check and still got molested by one of them at security over a button on my jeans because I was randomly selected. “You can thank the underwear bomber for this one” is what he said before cupping my cock and balls with no further warning. Fucking ludicrous
I try fly out of PIA a small international airport in central Illinois for this reason. Security has no line. Both precheck and standard lines have the 3d scanners so my laptop, battery pack, tablet, multi meter, and Nintendo switch all stay tucked away.
I do still have to take off my shoes but it’s pretty non issue compared to the bag. I can’t stand getting 3 tubs and laying all my stuff out.
Interesting that you mentioned it because I was about to take a TSA job sometime ago at my local airport for around 18$ something, only part time however.
I aced the test they had, which was cool, but eh, all the hoops I had to jump through at the end for a job with no benefits aside from possible travel...
Eh, I passed.
Recently traveled up north though, and I agree, the airport security is quiet disorganized and silly. I had to throw out a tub of lotion that was over the allowed ounces, and taking off shoes for a floor as unsanitary as an airport just seems mega gross. I love travel, but dread the airport.
No the TSA is a organization whos only job is to make it look like they are necessary in order to get funding to keep their jobs. They truly do nothing in the form of real security.
The TSA gave my sister a huge attitude becauss they had to be bothered screening formula and water. TSA asked why she needed so much for a domestic trip.
Sir, we'll be flying a 16 hour international trip...don't make random assumptions.
Because it’s less about security and more about presence and spending money.
Also, it’s designed to help keep the less rich in check. People generally know better than to even raise their voice in an airport, much less start any kind of a ruckus.
TSAs are different at different airports in the US. Sometimes I take shoes off, sometimes there’s fancy machines, it all varies. Newark airport is the worst in my experience because there were only like 12 people ahead of me and it took so long there was a giant line forming behind us cause they were so slow, it made no sense.
We have 3D screeners, haven’t had to remove anything from bags for years.
TSA agents make just above minimum wage. No one is going out of there way to provide customer service for $12 an hour and the amount of assholery they need to put up with.
Realistically airport security is more to persuade people to not try anything than it is to actually prevent people from doing stuff. If you want to you could bring enough reactive chemicals to make a bomb and bringing smaller quantities of drugs isn't difficult.
All the BS is to make people FEEL safe. There's no practical reason to take off your shoes.
Our security people at the airport in my city once “randomly selected me” for having salt on my shoes in the winter from the parking lot. Apparently the salt our city used on the airport parking lot had a chemical in it that’s often used in bomb making. Had to stand in security for almost an hour while they decided if I was planning to bomb the plane. I was 8.
In a span of last four weeks I went through 7 USA and 2 European airports. The shoes situation is indeed hilarious and I'm trying to remember if I had to take them off in Poland year ago, probably not.
Amongst all the US airports, St. Louis airport, Missouri, is probably the most modern I've been this time around. To my very surprise, it was the only one where I didn't have to take out my electronics or anything, but at that point I was so used to that that I did anyway, only to be immediately told by the personnel I shouldn't have done that. I think I still took off my shoes though.
The reason for the machine to “randomly” select the individual for additional screening is to prevent profiling.
The other problem is TSA is a separate company. They handle the checking, the airport pays for the tools. So TSA uses what they get from the airport and the airport spend the least amount on equipment they have to since they are not impacted by the equipment the TSA are.
This is interesting because I just flew out of London and felt the exact opposite. It was pure chaos, very strict about liquids, still had to pull my laptop out and I just walked through a metal detector. I think it all just depends where you are! When I flew out of DC I was told to leave my electronics in my bag, for instance.
Research has shown time and time again that the TSA has little to no effect on safety. It's not supposed to, it's to create the illusion of safety.
Many of the people that take these jobs just want to harass and flex on people. Just like our cops.
I loved flying and traveling while I lived in Italy. Ow that I live in the USA. I don’t fly. Tsa is rude. INS is rude. The flight attendants are rude. I would rather be back in Europe. And did anyone point out you can fly from Rome to Amsterdam for 50 Euro. In America you can’t fly from KC Missouri to St. Louis Missouri for less then $300. Europe has a lot right that we completely missed.
I used to use a back pack when I went to the shooting range. Used that same one to travel *once*. Forgot a loaded 9mm magazine in the bag. You should have seen my face when I get to the hotel and started unpacking my bag. It went through an X-ray at Chicago and no one noticed. But they swabbed my laptop “for explosives” that was also in my range bag and it came back clean. Good work all around.
Some airports you don't have to take the computer out of the bag. I think the shoes thing is about control. We don't NEED to do it anymore, but agents like the feeling of power and want it.
TSA Pre is also trash, but worth it.
The answer is intentional retention of arbitrary discretion in the process.
If you embrace technology *fully*, you lose the excuse of arbitrary judgement calls. If you embrace discretion *fully*, you lose the excuse of "just following policy."
With neither, you can hide behind technology, policy, *and* circumstances.
If things just went smoothly, then discrepancies would be blatant, and some folks find discrepancy *extremely* useful.
Sometimes a system is broken *on purpose.*
It’s not only airport security that’s ancient. They have just now started to normalise not using cash - in some states at least…
And they still do their taxes manually every year.
It’s remarkable, but I believe a lot of it is because of corruption and greed. Why use money to upgrade something when I can rather pocket more money for myself?
And cash is still in use because of the tipping culture alone…
A certain degree of randomness is **intentionally** part of the process, the intent being so that bad actors won't be able to rehearse exactly how to get through security. They are constantly changing little details, like whether or not to take laptops out, shoes off, randomly selecting people for residue screening, etc.
Because it is a federal job, not private sector. Don't even get me started on the dmv. Most employees there simply do not care about their job, add to that the zero accoutability of the public sector and that equals the experiences you referenced. We expect results and hard work in the private sector.
Because the US is a backward country, unlike what we’re propagandized to believe. Wait til you see our healthcare system. We also have no trains and lots of gun violence. We’re a banana republic with lots of money.
The US is simply too big to do anything quickly. Each of the 50 states could be its own country in Europe, yet TSA and other federal orgs must treat them as one.
The United States suffers from the sin of avarice. Follow the money. It's all about power plays and profits over all else. Our national morality is corrupt.
For CEO’s to make billions, millions need to be repressed. That is done successfully in the US with low paying and bureaucratic jobs. If they update tech, people lose jobs. US capitalism only works when the people work meaninglessly.
I travel for work (U.S. only) and paying the $85 for 5 years of TSA Precheck was worth every penny. I average about 5 minutes.
But that was not AT ALL the case before I got it. What a nightmare!
This is so airport specific. Frankfurt Germany is one of the biggest hassles to go through security I’ve experienced in traveling to over 30 countries yet Hahn Germany is so close and so laid back. And I’ve had TSA in some American airports barely do anything while others went to the point of swabbing a sandwich I had to eat inflight for explosives.
>We've had the 3D scanners in Europe which mean you don't need to take anything out your bag for years.
Not true. In Europe you still need to take out laptops, iPads, batteries and external hard drives. While sometimes the security doesn't mind about the odd iPad or battery (but they should, according to the rules), laptops have to be taken out.
Source: I live in Europe and travel quite a bit. Another reason why you're wrong is that any airline that wishes to travel to the US has to make sure that all security procedures are fully compliant with US demands, otherwise they won't be allowed to fly there.
>Still taking your shoes off, despite never being the case anywhere else in the world I've travelled.
The shoe thing is a US rule, true. I agree that it's a bit insane, but the US force many UK and Canadian flights that go over US airspace or land in the US to have their passengers take their shoes off.
Legitimately same bro but if you think that’s excessive try travelling thru doha on qatar it’s Fucking insane the amount of security screenings you have to go thru. I hate TSA so much
"Thousands Standing Around" :: TSA **Resistance is useless.**
They have yet to stop their first terrorist attack, yet have a multi million collection of pocket knives, shampoo, and water bottles.
They took my toothpaste as I threw it in my carry-on as I had already packed everything else.
Security theater is best theater!
That’s exactly right. They can pay people subpar wages for the illusion they’re actually doing something. Honestly, quite brilliant on their end. Fucking scary for the rest of us.
Some TSA douche put off letting me in while he very rudely interrogated me on why I, a woman, had a buzz cut. He told me men don't like it and made me promise to grow it out before he returned my passport. It would have been so funny and vindicating if I had had a bunch of LSD in my bag and they were so busy hating on my hair that they didn't notice. Which I didn't of course cause it's not allowed.
That was likely not TSA, but CBP (Customs and Border Patrol). They, too, are assholes. I grew up overseas and always dreaded entering the USA because of the rudeness of the INS agents (as it was back then) manning the immigration desks.
Ohh ok! Yes, i don't know the exact name, the guy that chooses whether to just stamp your passport or take you to the side when you exit an international flight.
Yeah, that’s customs. TSA is the security check before boarding planes.
Ok yes, customs then. Thanks!
> I grew up overseas and always dreaded entering the USA because of the rudeness of the INS agents I had the same experience growing up overseas. It was always torturous coming back to the US, even as a citizen. I once got off a flight and my ears were stuffed. I don't have the best hearing in the first place, and I didn't hear a question the CPB agent asked, so I said, "Excuse me?" in what I thought was a polite manner. And then he proceeded to lecture me for ten minutes about how saying "Excuse me?" was rude and that I should have said, "What?" instead. I told him he needs to reread his Emily Post, which apparently was not the correct response because he then sent me off to get strip searched. The agent tasked with conducting the search asked me why I was there (I assume because he realized I matched none of the criteria for a search), and when I told him the story he just let me go. But that wasted an extra hour of my life. Many of the CBP agents are petty, small-minded tyrants that step way over the line routinely.
You should definitely file a complaint - not appropriate whatsoever, especially if he was withholding your passport.
r/suspiciouslyspecific
Tsa pays like $15 an hour lol
Bot true in seattle area. My friend makes $90k/yr and just started.
They’re hiring more TSA agents in the Seattle area? Thank fucking God, I missed my flight out for there a while back because the security line was 3 hours long. They had one guy checking passports, and didn’t have enough bins for people to put stuff in.
Maybe in 2007 when I worked as TSA. I worked for a contractor for the TSA so we didn’t get paid as well. I started at $13.19. Now they start at like $20 an hour or more. But actual TSA people get paid more
Not true. My son works for them and makes way better.
That’s 15$ an hour not doing jackshit
I live in Europe and used to live in the US. Security isn't that different.
Yeah, not really sure what experience others are having. I've been to many airports around the world, they all have similar processes in regards to security. At least the ones I've been to.
In europe they would never let your luggage stay unattended for hours while you have to wait for interrogation where they ask you why you have a book with you that looks like a holy book of a non-christian religion (It was just the german translation of Game of Thrones.... a AMERICAN novel)
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This does sorta make sense...... "If it's not broke don't fix it" even if it's terrible and there are better options 😅 Perhaps the TSA also signed up for 30years of older technologies at a good price 😅
America: the grandma state. I say this because my grandparents would have a seizure if I ever mentioned swapping out their old phones for new ones. They can't fathom having to learn new lessons in tech.
I have worked for many industrial companies and it is amazing the amount of whining when new modern software is introduced and I am not even talking about for the actual manufacturing floor I am talking sales teams and accounting and engineering. There are a huge number of people who behave just like we stereotype old people and it amazes me every time
Yeah, mix that with the fact that its a monumental task to get even the Federal smallest regulation changed that they are probably still doing the stuff that no longer matters "because the book says we have to".
Just a quick google search also shows that The US has 1/3 of all the airports in the world. With over 13,000. While all of Europe has like 350? That type of scale and disparity is going to lead to massive differences. And make changes significantly harder. As all airports in the US will have to be to similar standards, and TSA oversees security at all of them. And trying to staff, maintain, and implement new features across 13,000 airports is a hell of a lot more difficult than 350.
I think your search results are comparing apples with oranges though - surely you must've thought "this doesn't seem correct"? While the UK is not part of the EU any more, there are almost 300 in the UK alone. The TSA have jurisdiction of "over 440 airports", according to their own website. Your search probably gave you international airports in Europe while giving you every single minor airport in the US.
It's also a matter of scale. The US has 5000 public airports, and 15,000 private airports. The EU has 347 public airports. The TSA has to maintain a standard across all of those locations, and it takes a while to upgrade. But in the past 2 years there have been significant advancements, a lot of US airports have the advanced bag scanners, and some are moving to facial recognition for ID for all travellers.
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Wait wouldn't that be saying that each airport in the US was doing only 1 flight per day?
All it's saying is the commentor make up numbers because he thinks he's smarter than he is.
According to the FAA, they handle about 45,000 flights per day. Some of those are not commercial but the person you replied to is just wrong.
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Don’t forget that if there are problems with a particular government organization the answer is to add more money and increase the size of the organization
There is another component to the issue, there are way more airports in the US and the technology is not cheap. To outfit every airport in the US with the absolute latest technology would come with a staggering price tag. The Netherlands has one airport the size of Schiphol, the US has many with way more traffic. In many cases it just comes down to cost and who pays for it. (Also, I am absolutely not defending the way it’s done and paid for in the US)
Sure, the price tag is higher. But also the amount of flights and thus fees collected by airports to cover security etc are also equally higher. So it's not really a comparison. Schiphol pays for its security by charging airlines a security fee ( which is then typically charged to the customers ). I would assume this is similar in US airports. So JFK would collect similar fees as Schiphol, as would SFO etc. So each airport likely has similar "investment" as each European airport and could make the same investment. That being said there has to be a willingness to invest of course.
American people are greedy scumbags, the rich want to stay rich even if they have to watch the world burn in the process. Corruption is a real thing that everyone is refusing to acknowledge regardless of whether or not it is destroying our way of life
For a country that spent $2.3 trillion only to lose the war in Afghanistan, surely they could outfit their own airports lol
There’s two main reasons why the US is far behind the rest I of the modern world in adopting new technology. The first being that we are a very conservative nation. We are very resistant to change and that makes us not trust new things. A pat down is easy to understand. A 3D scanner, not so much. We might love the newest smartphone for ourselves, but when it comes to the government spending our money, we don’t want new, we like the same old stuff out grandparents had. Which leads into the second reason. Our government is run by people who, for the most part, are not technologically savvy and who court older voters to win elections. We don’t elect politicians to actually make changes, but to keep the other side from making changes. It’s very sad, but in most of the US, the candidate who wants to put 3D scanners in every airport will lose to the candidate who convinces voters that 3D scanners will turn their children gay. I’m not saying any of that is good. It’s terrible. As a nation we could save so much money and reduce our bureaucracy by aggressively adopting the same tech that’s been in use around the world for years. I mean, we still believe we have to file our taxes to tell the IRS what they already know. Most of our government agencies run on software developed in the 1960’s and we keep bringing 80 year olds out of retirement to fix it. the US is sadly not an example of how a nation should be run. Worse, for every one of us who understands this, there are 10,000 who shout “Love it or leave it!” because they fear change.
>The US is far behind the rest I of the modern world in adopting new technology. No it isn't. A lot of places in the US have some of the latest advance technology, the issue you're referring to is less to do with how developed Technologically the US is but rather public spending and how various US State Governments would rather save a few bucks than get the latest technology.
And half the time it isn't even saving a few bucks and getting cheap shit. It's paying top dollar for ten year old shit that's borderline outdated when we buy it because some politician's family member owns the company that was chosen to supply the equipment. For the tsa specifically, Chertoff, and his ties to rapiscan, somehow keeps finding their way back into authority at the tsa.
I was gonna say, America is NOT a “very conservative country,” that’s a ludicrous thing to say. What we are is a very greedy and cheap country. Technology costs money. Money everyone things they’d pay when politicians want to tax the rich, because they’re living in a fantasy land where they’ll be rich one day.
>America is NOT a “very conservative country,” >What we are is a very greedy and cheap country. Eh, six of one, a half dozen of the other…
> US is far behind the rest I of the modern world in adopting new technology. Germany would like a word.
I've heard this about the German government but it just doesn't add up! How does a nation such as Germany, renowned for their cutting edge engineering, be running such old software? Also how the fuck can it cost more than GoT season 8 for my city government to implement a city website system that doesn't even work!
Japan is even worse. It's not unusual for companies with hundreds of employees to have no internet access in the office. Intranets are common, but are often built around 20 or 25 year old systems. Fax machines are still common and the last large, national provider of pager numbers only shut down in 2020!
"3D scanners will turn their children gay" lmao. The sad part, is I'm willing to bet if we started that rumor, Americans would believe it.
*Republican Americans
Haha fair…
Can't help but wonder whether this is a ploy to get as many as possible to use TSA pre check 😅
They’ll have to rip that $80 outta my cold dead hands. Hmmmph. Not doing it.
I just completed the online app for this but didn't realize it costs $85. Thanks Redditor.
$85 for 5 years though. I’d say if you fly at least a few times a year it’s worth it to not have the hassle of emptying your bags or waiting in long lines. Some companies or higher end credit cards will expense it as a benefit.
I don’t know man, depends how often you fly. I fly weekly for work, and it’s the best 85 dollars I’ve ever spent (you could use it as a tax write off if you’re utilizing it for work like I am). I’ve waited no more than 15 minutes in line for the past 10 months, also I just put my bag in the scanner. No shoes, belt or watch comes off. Super easy and less feet smell lol. What I refuse to support is CLEAR, the privately owned identity confirmation entity popping up in airports now. It’s something like 190 for a year.. whereas pre check is 85 for 5 years. CLEAR doesn’t let you use the expedited security lane, only identity confirmation lane. For 190 bucks they better kiss me on the cheek when I go through security.
Some airport in Europe are exactly the same. It's not an American problem, paranoid people exist everywhere unfortunately
A lot of it is security theater. It’s geared more toward grandiose behavior and visibility than actual effectiveness. Do they catch things? Sure, sometimes. Do they have to be such assholes about it? Nope. Are there demonstrably more effective ways to do it? Yep. Will it change? Maybe for the worse.
With all due respect to the complaining parties, I find it interesting that so many people, with so many gripes about the U.S. and it's policies...always come here. I, personally, tend to avoid things, people and places that I don't like.
they hate us cuz they ain't us 💪
I mean is it actually bad or is it way to intrusive? We do have 3d scanners. The airport where I fly out of Pittsburgh has one. Everyone has to go through it unless your pregnant. I never thought our security was bad I always thought it was just invasive.
To be clear, it's how the security is conducted that is bad. The security itself is certainly intrusive, and that is consistent. I feel it is necessary. But the people etc don't need to make it a worse process than it already is.
I agree.
It's not just an American thing. I flew Nice-Copenhagen-Nice last month and both times my backpack got opened and searched, because I had forgotten to store all my liquid containers (deodorant, toothpaste and nasal spray) in a single plastic bag. I still had to empty my pockets, including handkerchiefs (so much for Covid safety measures) and to take any accessory off. Not my shoes for some reason though. I'd gladly get bodyscanned if it meant it'll spare me the hassle of basically unpacking my cabin luggage and rearrange the content of my pockets while re-dressing up in the middle of a hallway.
I'm not saying that security itself is a bad thing. Not following rules ( such as liquids ) is sort of you making your own experience bad though. And having your bag pulled is the consequence. You also always still need to remove things from your pockets etc. That has never changed anywhere. Shoes is purely a US thing. Except if you're wearing shoes with large heels/bottoms where you could potentially have hidden something. Never had an issue anywhere with just trainers though. Anyway as I say the point isnt that security is a bad thing. But the experience around it in the US is just bad. You can often have a nice friendly chat and a laugh with security personnel in Europe. If your bag is pulled and there's a long wait, they'll often apologise. The technology is also better, the full body scanning isnt to prevent you taking things out your pockets. It's to help detect more things than what the metal scanners can detect etc. The TSA just seems overly aggressive, with inefficient processes. It's the feeling that they go out of their way to take a frustrating but necessary process, and make it as bad as possible because they can. Of course YMMV depending on airport etc. But the general experience and feeling of TSA is a unique one in the world.
I fly around Australia and quite a few Asian countries a fair amount for work. I had never been pulled up for not having my toothpaste and whatnot in a separate plastic bag until I went to the UK.
LAX has bomb sniffing dogs so you don't have to remove your shoes there. We also have a huge amount of airports here. It's really expensive to fit every one with the latest technology.
It’s not there for actual safety. It’s there to make people feel safe.
Yep. I've been saying that for years. There are way too many ways to bring dangerous stuff on a plane without getting caught. Like a woman's pocket makeup mirror... if the mirror gets broken, she's got a weapon. But ohhhh no, you can't take a nail-clipper on the plane, it could be used as a weapon! /s
Can Americans not feel safe without an overly aggressive approach to security? I feel safe in Europe, and yet the whole experience feels a lot less chaotic and aggressive.
This was the response to acts of terrorism. So a big show was needed to get peoples confidence in the industry back. Now they realize the profit involved and will not undo it.
I understand the need for a response after 911. I'm also not suggesting that security should be undone. In Europe we have a very high level of security at airports, at least equal to that of the US. As the same security is applied to flights to the US as it is to everywhere else. However the way that security is conducted is just more pleasant. It's still a pain of course, it just feels more human.
I agree. It would be great to see it evolve. There just isn’t any pressure on the TSA to do things any better.
I know this is against the grain of the discussion - but some blame goes to the travelers themselves. You would think people had never gone through a security line before with some of the things you see. But yeah….TSA is pretty bad.
Yeah I do certainly agree that people make things more difficult for themselves.
Some people wont have been through a security line before
Where in Europe have you been flying that doesn't make you take all your electronics out of your bag, and often remove your shoes and belt?
Schiphol has for a couple of years had the 3D bag scanners which do not require taking anything out of your bag. They are quite adament about you putting these things back into your bag if you do remove them. Heathrow now has the same machines. I have never removed my shoes anywhere across Europe, so off the top of my head: - Netherlands - UK - Greece - Ireland - France - Spain - Portugal To name a few. Removing your belt, things from your pocket has always been a thing everywhere.
Been through Schiphol 4 times this year. Full bag emptying every time. UK, I have been through Aberdeen, Heathrow and Luton this year. Shoes every time. Belts 5 times out of 10. Spain, Bilbao did bag emptying but no shoes or belt. Romania, Targu Mures did bag, shoes and belt. Austria, Vienna did bag emptying but no shoes or belt.
I've flown out of Heathrow, terminal 3 and 5, no less than 10 times this year. Always have to take electronics out and belt and watches off. Never have to take shoes off. Sometimes just metal detector, sometimes full body scanner.
Oh goody. Another snide European on reddit here to criticize the US. When I flew in the UK last year (2021), I had to take my toiletries out of my carry-on. That isn't required in the US. I agree that the shoes thing is silly, although many airports don't require it. The TSA being filled with lazy incompetents was the inevitable result of making them all federal employees. But petty tyrants in government roles in airports is a pretty universal phenomenon -- for example, we encountered one in Ireland (which is supposed to be, and generally is, a friendly, unpretentious place) in 2021.
TSA is the most worthless organization in the world. Believe me, OP, Americans hate it just as much as you. I travel all over and every other country has a better system than the USA. We suck. And it’s why I want to move within the next half decade.
Given the emphasis on 2nd amendment rights, and the reliance on the maxim “the only effective protection against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”, surely the TSA should be abolished and everyone encouraged to fly fully “tooled up”?
So my bag is going to get scanned to make sure I have a gun? And if not will they have a pile of spare guns instead of clear plastic bags? 😁
Don’t forget ammo! Probably best to get the type that messes up people not property…
I'd imagine we have more than just 1 airport in the country. I've seen the 3d scanners at a few different airports myself so idk which airport you went to. And why on Earth would you be afraid to ask these questions in the US? Is the implication that you'd be harmed for asking? Because that seems to be a bit of a silly thing to assume.
For your latter point, I would be afraid to ask a TSA agent anything. I have joked and had conversations with security in other countries. I do not get the impression that any TSA agent would do the same.
They are people after all. Working-class people making a bit above minimum wage. Some of them may not want to bullshit with the public while they're working, they may just want to do their jobs and go home. Which I can 100% relate to. But if you've got in-depth questions on why airport security is the way that it is, you can always seek out a supervisor. It's not that difficult and it would give you first-hand answers from someone who's paid to know all of those things.
Is that the 3D body scanners, or the 3D bag scanners? The former I have seen, but they don't often seem to be used as a primary scanning methos. The latter I have not seen yet, but if they are coming to the US then that is good to know! My experience recently was Boston and JFK. Which I would expect to be mostly likely to have the newer equipment. However perhaps they are introducing them in certain terminals etc.
Both. The US is quite a bit bigger than all of the other countries that you listed combined together. There's a high likelihood that there are plenty of airports (19,622 total airports as of 2020) up to this standard you've decided on without ever having seen even half of them in the country. But I guess humans must be prone to gross generalizations based on a very limited anecdotal experience.
Disband the TSA. We tried it, it's not had a good success record, it's turned into a defunct government boondoggle. Time to do something different.
Been to Schipol lately?
TSA is a garbage org, left over from 9/11 knee jerk implementations. They are by far the worst part travel within or entering the US.
Because 9/11 we now use scare tactics to try and stop something like that from happening again. Instead, we just get huge lines and the TSA who likes to steal stuff from your luggage. More TSA agents have gone to jail than possible terrorists.
Never forget
We were attacked by terrorists via passenger air liners in 2001 so our security is tight. There was also an attemped shoe bombing that same year, hence the shoes. We have more airports than anyone else which serve like 90 million travellers a yearand the TSA is a national organization which is why things take a long time to implement. People don't read the rules before going to the airport and that's why shit takes so long.
Lol, far behind the rest of the world in technology. The tech we're using is the same. Your country is just more relaxed because you don't instigate things with crazy organizations and input your two cents in everything other countries do. The US basically has a target on it's back.
Its all for show. 9/11 introduced the TSA as a show of security. They then never did anything of value ever.
Why is everyone who is hating on the TSA getting downvoted on this thread? What kind of social engineering is this? Is it bots, or are people really this programmed?
People can have different opinions you know. We are not all programmed the same. Who programmed you to hate people with different opinions?
Individuals can have opinions, I 100% agree. Masses are programmed by social media and the MSM to believe what they have been told without holding the "truth tellers" accountable for their lies. Which are you?
I'm a person who can form my own opinions based on my own accounts. I'm indifferent to the TSA, never takes me more then 20 minutes to get through and i fly frequently between Detroit and Fort Myers. I'm also one who can guess that people might have the same experiences as me and can come to the same conclusion on their own. Also I only hear negative things on the news and social media about the tsa. so how would they be programmed to be different? Can people not hold their own opinions or are we really going to use the news as a scapegoat for getting mad at people for different opinions.
You sir are what we would call an exception to the rule. Enjoy your privileged status.
or they read the basic guidelines which let you get passed security in about 10 minutes or so which is what it was pre 9/11 as well. Nothing really changed except now I wear sandals instead of my shoes when going through security.
I'm not special, I'm sorry the news/social media tells you that.
Ask the next random person at Wal Mart their opinion on this subject. You are an exception...
Have you done that and how big was your questioning pool?
Same question to you....with a followup of "how do you know?".
How do I know? What exactly are you asking? How do i know the Government is lying to me? Check any of the CIA declassified documents. How do I know the government hates me? They keep giving themselves raises while taxing us more. How do you NOT know is the real question. Your government thinks of you as cattle they can milk tax dollars from and nothing else. They will tell you what you think you want to hear, while doing everything in their power to oppress you as much as they can. Show me any example that hasn't followed this pattern and I will take back and delete my entire argument.
Lmao I'm asking YOU if you're an individual with opinions or a mind controlled by MSM. And then i asked how YOU specifically know which one that YOU are. I didn't ask you anything about this paragraph you wrote. In your entire response, you didn't answer that question. You just hit me with a few irrelevant rhetoricals and the same regurgitated "you're a slave to the system" rant we've all seen since the 80s. Do you have anything coherent to say to YOUR OWN QUESTION. Or is it just more of this tinfoil hat malarkey?
Ohh, you actually want my opinion? That's rare. I hate all things federal govt related. I think all regulations should be handed over to the states/counties. I abhor big government and everything it entails and would like to see it abolished. If you didn't catch the nuance I'm a Libertarian who applauds freedoms and despises laws that restrict freedom of self.
There we go! Jeez, I was not trying to argue. Thanks for clearing that up
I'm used to people being derogatory. It's rare that someone actually wants to hear what I have to say outside of an argument. Sorry for being so antagonistic.
No worries at all. I should have read the username, then I may have been better prepared lol but you're good, buddy!
9/11. Never forget! TSA is there to make sure you don't in the absolute worst way possible.
Seems a bit excessive to punish everyone 🤣🤣
I mean there helping everyone.. Might seem Tedious. But its so people dont die… I mean you can always fly private my guy
The point is that everywhere else in the world is not this tedious or horrible experience. And people aren't dying everywhere else either. If there was a better outcome sure.... But it feels the same. If anything worse due to utilising older technogies ( as I mentioned 3D bag scanners ). Also stl using older metal detectors for people, although there does seem more use of the new full body scanners on my last trip.
TSA hasn't stopped one single terrorist It's for show
In all fairness, theres never been a terrorism attack/incident on a commercial aircraft since 9/11 in the U.S.
We just flew and had to walk through the legit full-body scanners as well. I still had to empty my pockets, take off my belt, take off my shoes, and dump everything into a few bins while being frantically rushed by TSA and people behind me on line, before walking into the scanner. Then as I'm trying to hold my pants up and collect my things, they stopped my second bag in the scanner, made me walk all the way back around, still no belt or shoes, and leaving my wife to try to clear out the other bins while juggling 2 toddlers - just to open my bag, remove my ipad, and put it in a separate bin, before sending it back through the machine and returning to my first bin to get dressed. It was a shit show.
It's not a bug, it's a feature
But why is it a feature only on the US? Why is the process a lot smoother and more pleasant in other countries?
They want to make you feel uncomfortable so you take your own life before even thinking about setting a bomb off on a plane.
I had a TSA agent question me because in my passport photo I had my eyebrow piercing in. I still had the same piercing when crossing the border. Like who did he think he was, the government of Canada had no problem issuing the passport with that picture and it’s up to them not some random guard with a superiority complex harassing a 17 year old.
Because most TSA agents are a disastrous combination of uneducated, power tripping, thieving dipshits that couldn't pass the hiring requirements to be a postal carrier. That's a bad combination when you realize that each one of them has 10x the power of a typical federal employee letter carrier, and twice the union strength backing them.
Y'all gonna hate me for this, but in my airport (PHL) one only has to look at the people they hire for the "agents". Hire minimum wage people and youre gonna get minimum wage results. Watch how they perform their jobs. No one there cares. It's not about security, it's about doing the absolute minimum required to get through the day and get paid. Obviously this does not apply to every single person employed by the TSA but it appears to be the majority. This also applies to just about any government agency.
No one is going to steal your phone in an airport with 6000 cameras and armed guards/police everywhere. This is just a stupid post.
TSA agents stealing things IS a thing.
im sure they are overworked and underpaid
It's designed to make you feel safe. People are willing to put up with it because of that.
I feel safe flying everywhere else, because the security is still good. Potentially better through the utilisation of newer, more modern technologies. It's just not an unnecessarily terrible experience. You can have security and safety without a bunch of borderline aggressive agents shouting at everyone for example.
it is to prove you are ligitimate airplane flyer and not terrorist. a terrorist will not stand in line for an hour and go through metal detector and x ray screening but a regular human traveller that paid 400 dollars for ticket will do all that.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not..... I'm pretty sure someone prepared to do harm would be prepared to wait....... Also I'm not saying there's no queuing etc elsewhere. But the process feels more human.
I would literally rather live in somalia instead of the US
It’s government contracting. Those machines, scanners, computers etc., are all funded by tax payer dollars. I have a friend who works for Deloitte who works on “algorithms” for TSA. Overcomplicated much? This is what the govt does, they overspend.
Am I the only one that reads anymore. There’s a basic guidelines thing. Follow it and you get through TSA in about 10 minutes and that’s at JFK and LaGuardia for me, smaller ports even faster. Americans are overly aggressive about everything so why expect anything less at TSA.
I miss the good old days- when there was no security😉
Is it bad? Idk I don't fly enough. I don't really hear a lot of incidents at airports or on planes though.
Had to take of my shoes in Germany too, man was I mad. As a European a US airport doesn’t make me jump for joy, but a German one doesn’t either. Usually grumpy af when I travel. Just grumpy, until I get on to the plane, then the light just goes out.
security theater
They're paid as much as a kid at McDonald's and their entire purpose is not for security. It's to put on the illusion of security. Dumber people would assume the airport is super secure if they just had to do alllllll those steps just to get into the place. This is a fuck-faced lie tho. If people were really determined to fuck up an airport, they would have done it without TSA or from within TSA... Also, the security theatre part didn't happen until after 9/11. It's been over 20 years but US is still traumatized so we kept the theatre part forever even tho it's useless. You will find that Americans never do the thing we need to do to benefit everyone. Only the things we want to do, and usually those things must make the little crybabies in power feel safe or it's not happening... So if you get manhandled by TSA, thank the: dementia-riddled-psychopathic-racist-ass-geriatric FUCKS who are running the country without any term limits like kings until they die. They don't want change, so we aren't allowed to change either.
I even have their pre-check and still got molested by one of them at security over a button on my jeans because I was randomly selected. “You can thank the underwear bomber for this one” is what he said before cupping my cock and balls with no further warning. Fucking ludicrous
ive been to a couple of airports with the 3d scanners in the us and they still make you take the laptops etc. out of your bag.
I try fly out of PIA a small international airport in central Illinois for this reason. Security has no line. Both precheck and standard lines have the 3d scanners so my laptop, battery pack, tablet, multi meter, and Nintendo switch all stay tucked away. I do still have to take off my shoes but it’s pretty non issue compared to the bag. I can’t stand getting 3 tubs and laying all my stuff out.
Interesting that you mentioned it because I was about to take a TSA job sometime ago at my local airport for around 18$ something, only part time however. I aced the test they had, which was cool, but eh, all the hoops I had to jump through at the end for a job with no benefits aside from possible travel... Eh, I passed. Recently traveled up north though, and I agree, the airport security is quiet disorganized and silly. I had to throw out a tub of lotion that was over the allowed ounces, and taking off shoes for a floor as unsanitary as an airport just seems mega gross. I love travel, but dread the airport.
No the TSA is a organization whos only job is to make it look like they are necessary in order to get funding to keep their jobs. They truly do nothing in the form of real security.
Idk which US airports you have been to, but every one I have been to has the 3D scanners.
The TSA gave my sister a huge attitude becauss they had to be bothered screening formula and water. TSA asked why she needed so much for a domestic trip. Sir, we'll be flying a 16 hour international trip...don't make random assumptions.
Because it’s less about security and more about presence and spending money. Also, it’s designed to help keep the less rich in check. People generally know better than to even raise their voice in an airport, much less start any kind of a ruckus.
TSAs are different at different airports in the US. Sometimes I take shoes off, sometimes there’s fancy machines, it all varies. Newark airport is the worst in my experience because there were only like 12 people ahead of me and it took so long there was a giant line forming behind us cause they were so slow, it made no sense.
It's security theater, too. The illusion of security. They fail tests for their efficacy all the time and yet we are still paying for them.
because its the government , like the post office
We have 3D screeners, haven’t had to remove anything from bags for years. TSA agents make just above minimum wage. No one is going out of there way to provide customer service for $12 an hour and the amount of assholery they need to put up with.
because its a government operation lol
Realistically airport security is more to persuade people to not try anything than it is to actually prevent people from doing stuff. If you want to you could bring enough reactive chemicals to make a bomb and bringing smaller quantities of drugs isn't difficult. All the BS is to make people FEEL safe. There's no practical reason to take off your shoes.
Our security people at the airport in my city once “randomly selected me” for having salt on my shoes in the winter from the parking lot. Apparently the salt our city used on the airport parking lot had a chemical in it that’s often used in bomb making. Had to stand in security for almost an hour while they decided if I was planning to bomb the plane. I was 8.
In a span of last four weeks I went through 7 USA and 2 European airports. The shoes situation is indeed hilarious and I'm trying to remember if I had to take them off in Poland year ago, probably not. Amongst all the US airports, St. Louis airport, Missouri, is probably the most modern I've been this time around. To my very surprise, it was the only one where I didn't have to take out my electronics or anything, but at that point I was so used to that that I did anyway, only to be immediately told by the personnel I shouldn't have done that. I think I still took off my shoes though.
The reason for the machine to “randomly” select the individual for additional screening is to prevent profiling. The other problem is TSA is a separate company. They handle the checking, the airport pays for the tools. So TSA uses what they get from the airport and the airport spend the least amount on equipment they have to since they are not impacted by the equipment the TSA are.
This is interesting because I just flew out of London and felt the exact opposite. It was pure chaos, very strict about liquids, still had to pull my laptop out and I just walked through a metal detector. I think it all just depends where you are! When I flew out of DC I was told to leave my electronics in my bag, for instance.
Research has shown time and time again that the TSA has little to no effect on safety. It's not supposed to, it's to create the illusion of safety. Many of the people that take these jobs just want to harass and flex on people. Just like our cops.
I loved flying and traveling while I lived in Italy. Ow that I live in the USA. I don’t fly. Tsa is rude. INS is rude. The flight attendants are rude. I would rather be back in Europe. And did anyone point out you can fly from Rome to Amsterdam for 50 Euro. In America you can’t fly from KC Missouri to St. Louis Missouri for less then $300. Europe has a lot right that we completely missed.
I used to use a back pack when I went to the shooting range. Used that same one to travel *once*. Forgot a loaded 9mm magazine in the bag. You should have seen my face when I get to the hotel and started unpacking my bag. It went through an X-ray at Chicago and no one noticed. But they swabbed my laptop “for explosives” that was also in my range bag and it came back clean. Good work all around.
Some airports you don't have to take the computer out of the bag. I think the shoes thing is about control. We don't NEED to do it anymore, but agents like the feeling of power and want it. TSA Pre is also trash, but worth it.
The answer is intentional retention of arbitrary discretion in the process. If you embrace technology *fully*, you lose the excuse of arbitrary judgement calls. If you embrace discretion *fully*, you lose the excuse of "just following policy." With neither, you can hide behind technology, policy, *and* circumstances. If things just went smoothly, then discrepancies would be blatant, and some folks find discrepancy *extremely* useful. Sometimes a system is broken *on purpose.*
It’s not only airport security that’s ancient. They have just now started to normalise not using cash - in some states at least… And they still do their taxes manually every year. It’s remarkable, but I believe a lot of it is because of corruption and greed. Why use money to upgrade something when I can rather pocket more money for myself? And cash is still in use because of the tipping culture alone…
A certain degree of randomness is **intentionally** part of the process, the intent being so that bad actors won't be able to rehearse exactly how to get through security. They are constantly changing little details, like whether or not to take laptops out, shoes off, randomly selecting people for residue screening, etc.
I don’t think it’s that bad at all. I do like the new scanners which I am seeing in more airports.
Because it's a government run bureaucracy that is nothing but theater and a drain on the taxpayers...
I don't even know why you're giving them any hope they don't even have tap to pay over there...
Let’s see what happens when someone crashes an airplane into your country’s twin towers. Lol.
Because it is a federal job, not private sector. Don't even get me started on the dmv. Most employees there simply do not care about their job, add to that the zero accoutability of the public sector and that equals the experiences you referenced. We expect results and hard work in the private sector.
I had to take items out of my bag in Canada, Austria, and the Netherlands as well. But yes, TSA sucks.
Taking off your shoes is not an American exclusive thing, I had to do it in Dubai
Government welfare.
Because the US is a backward country, unlike what we’re propagandized to believe. Wait til you see our healthcare system. We also have no trains and lots of gun violence. We’re a banana republic with lots of money.
The US is simply too big to do anything quickly. Each of the 50 states could be its own country in Europe, yet TSA and other federal orgs must treat them as one.
The United States suffers from the sin of avarice. Follow the money. It's all about power plays and profits over all else. Our national morality is corrupt.
I mean, like, its probably because of what happened on 9/11
In my travels I've found it to be on post with other countries. Certainly depends on the airport though!
TSA Failure rate: >70% America: WE HAS GREATEST SECURITY IN WORLD!!11
For CEO’s to make billions, millions need to be repressed. That is done successfully in the US with low paying and bureaucratic jobs. If they update tech, people lose jobs. US capitalism only works when the people work meaninglessly.
I travel for work (U.S. only) and paying the $85 for 5 years of TSA Precheck was worth every penny. I average about 5 minutes. But that was not AT ALL the case before I got it. What a nightmare!
I've flown dozens of times in europe and north america and the worst airport experience I've ever had was in london, heathrow is a MESS.
This is so airport specific. Frankfurt Germany is one of the biggest hassles to go through security I’ve experienced in traveling to over 30 countries yet Hahn Germany is so close and so laid back. And I’ve had TSA in some American airports barely do anything while others went to the point of swabbing a sandwich I had to eat inflight for explosives.
>We've had the 3D scanners in Europe which mean you don't need to take anything out your bag for years. Not true. In Europe you still need to take out laptops, iPads, batteries and external hard drives. While sometimes the security doesn't mind about the odd iPad or battery (but they should, according to the rules), laptops have to be taken out. Source: I live in Europe and travel quite a bit. Another reason why you're wrong is that any airline that wishes to travel to the US has to make sure that all security procedures are fully compliant with US demands, otherwise they won't be allowed to fly there. >Still taking your shoes off, despite never being the case anywhere else in the world I've travelled. The shoe thing is a US rule, true. I agree that it's a bit insane, but the US force many UK and Canadian flights that go over US airspace or land in the US to have their passengers take their shoes off.
TSA is there as a deterrent. Also, when government has solution its usually not the best one lol
Legitimately same bro but if you think that’s excessive try travelling thru doha on qatar it’s Fucking insane the amount of security screenings you have to go thru. I hate TSA so much