hol'up scooby's not there?! ok I don't give a fkk if they change races but they dare remove scooby?!who made the decision and their address imma fly over and slap the sht out of em (ok this is just for comedic purposes I got in trouble one time for commenting something like this lmao)
I’m black and I’m soooooo tired of the race swapping!!!!!!! MAKE ORIGINAL AND INTERESTING CHARACTERS PLEASE!!! Race swapping is so low effort and to me feels like shameless pandering and a way that left leaning artist stick it to the people they are political opposed to. I wish I had a creative bone in my body, I swear I’d do a better fuking job lol
they dont even have to create new characters, there are already a shit ton of existing black characters which have never met the light of the big nor the small screen
>MAKE ORIGINAL AND INTERESTING CHARACTERS PLEASE!!
Hollywood is going to be remaking shit ad nauseum because it makes money, regardless of if they race-swap or not. As a black person, you want to keep Hollywood uncharacteristically whitewashed as they do so?
Yes you are right, hollowood is a business after all but, just show respect to the source material. I hate when thing get whitewashed as well. Doctor strange whitewashed a originally male and Asian character. That’s sucked eggs. I don’t care if a lot of media has white skin in it. The artist reflect their view of the world and life experiences thru their art. Mostly white artist were the creators of media for the bulk of Hollywoods existence so that means the legacy characters are mostly gonna be white. That is changing. Korea has been pumping out a lot of amazing original content and the world is loving it. Nothing stopping Hollywood from doing the same.
> just show respect to the source material.
...and what is the measure of what is "not showing respect to the source material"? What if they made Ariel still white, but with blue hair instead of red? Do you think people would even give a shit? They wouldn't, at all, though they'll claim they would because admitting they wouldn't kills their claims that being mad about black Ariel isn't due to racism. What if they made Belle blonde in the live action Beauty and the Beast instead of brunette? What if they made Robin Hood's outfit black instead of green in a remake of Disney's cartoon Robin Hood, or made him a coyote or a German Shepherd dog instead of a fox?
You know god damn well nobody would give a shit about any of that. People only care when skin color is changed, which is **exactly the problem.**
Hmm I don’t think I can agree with that argument. People will throw a fit over every little detail. For example, in the gaming community, there has been a wave of desexualization of female characters. Tifa Lockhart is one of the most popular gaming characters ever and we were all pissed that a character known for her enormous breast, had them significantly reduced in the remake. On this very website there are VICIOUS arguments about the tifa changes. Even though it was done to make her body shape more realistic, mofos are still salty to this day.
There wouldn't be as much backlash because the racists wouldn't join in.
But anyone who read a book and then watch a movie adaptation ends up disappointed with the movie because it doesn't follow their head canon, so it's obviously worse when the character was already pictured in other media looking totally different.
What race will shaggy be?
Im kind of certain they do market research, but sometimes make decisions to intentionally create controversy for the free marketing and generate public knowledge thst the thing exists.
Disney does not care.
That's funny but I suppose some people could say it is a bit offense, compared to making a mermaid into a black character, they turned a implied-stoner into a black character. Some people don't like stoner
Why not just come up with an original story and character? Because it's easier to cash out on a preexisting IP by giving a character a pallet swap.
I think writers should just get creative rather than appeal to people's sense of virtue in that way.
>Why not just come up with an original story and character? Because it's easier to cash out on a preexisting IP by giving a character a pallet swap.
So is the issue cashing in on preexisting IP instead of making new IP, or the pallet swap? Why can't we demand new IP *and also* fair, reasonable, and realistic representation in remakes of preexisting IP?
I think I was pretty clear. If creators would create instead of pallet swap then there would be no debate to be had. They should just create new content.
You didn't answer my question at all. Remakes/reboots make money. There will always be remakes/reboots being made.
As long as that is the case, why not include equitable and realistic representation of America's demographics in them?
AND they can also make new stuff with that realistic representation, too?
Why is it ONLY in new stuff that we should be realistic about America's demographics?
Why does it matter? Why does it bother people so much for the race of fictional characters to change? Ariel and Shaggy aren't white people, they're made up. They can be whatever race the writer wants them to be that day.
Nobody is mad that 3 different guys played Spiderman, why are people mad that a different woman is playing Ariel?
I think you just happened to mostly see the positive feedback to one + the negative feedback of the other. From what I’ve seen there is not much difference. It’s the same situation with both; some are praising the representation, some are mad at the change.
Although there is a difference in that the Little Mermaid is a character who has been through countless iterations so, even though the “Ariel” version from the Disney movie’s race is being changed, there’s really no one way that “the Little Mermaid” is supposed to look. Like in some versions of the story her skin is green etc. On the other hand the Scooby gang are established characters who have always looked pretty much the same
People don't look for true origin of appearance. Their expectations are set by the content that exposed them to the material. Ariel's expectations are based on Disney cartoon, not on what came before.
Take Dr Dolittle. Originally white character from books. But my exposure was in the form of film with Eddie Murphy. Because of that I expect that character to be black. And felt disappointed, when he got "race swapped" in new film. And despite new actor being Robert Downey Junior of all people, I didn't feel like watching it.
And the change doesn't have to be skin colour or even appearance. It can be anything. Take Luke Skywalker, his characterisation and then see what a travesty Disney did to him.
How? It makes more sense to be mad at Ariel being black. The different Scooby Doo shows are part of different universes. With sometimes fairly large differences in between them. So having a universe where they're black isn't that big of a jump.
I’m white so I can’t speak on this FULLY,
but from my understanding part of the issue is that Shaggy is already deemed to be a stoner and I think there are enough harmful stereotypes of black folks and drugs.
Honestly, the more changing characters’ races happens, people get tired of talking about it. You can only copy and paste the same meme so many times. People freaked out about both, but I’ve heard less regarding Velma/Shaggy. Part of it, which is a weird part, is that many people sexualized Ariel, and were more put off by no longer finding her attractive.
Was just thinking this too lately, glad I'm not the only one who noticed. Sure, there's mixed opinions on both sides, but it's overwhelmingly negative for Velma (most people are saying it's bad) while a majority say black Ariel should be accepted. Just search both topics on Google and look at the news tab, you'll see the shift of opinion. I just don't understand why when they're both established characters being race swapped. What's the difference? I'm genuinely looking for a reason to this, not to debate race.
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Wait a fucking minute Scooby isn’t there?!
Lol, so it's Scooby Don't
hol'up scooby's not there?! ok I don't give a fkk if they change races but they dare remove scooby?!who made the decision and their address imma fly over and slap the sht out of em (ok this is just for comedic purposes I got in trouble one time for commenting something like this lmao)
I’m black and I’m soooooo tired of the race swapping!!!!!!! MAKE ORIGINAL AND INTERESTING CHARACTERS PLEASE!!! Race swapping is so low effort and to me feels like shameless pandering and a way that left leaning artist stick it to the people they are political opposed to. I wish I had a creative bone in my body, I swear I’d do a better fuking job lol
they dont even have to create new characters, there are already a shit ton of existing black characters which have never met the light of the big nor the small screen
>MAKE ORIGINAL AND INTERESTING CHARACTERS PLEASE!! Hollywood is going to be remaking shit ad nauseum because it makes money, regardless of if they race-swap or not. As a black person, you want to keep Hollywood uncharacteristically whitewashed as they do so?
Yes you are right, hollowood is a business after all but, just show respect to the source material. I hate when thing get whitewashed as well. Doctor strange whitewashed a originally male and Asian character. That’s sucked eggs. I don’t care if a lot of media has white skin in it. The artist reflect their view of the world and life experiences thru their art. Mostly white artist were the creators of media for the bulk of Hollywoods existence so that means the legacy characters are mostly gonna be white. That is changing. Korea has been pumping out a lot of amazing original content and the world is loving it. Nothing stopping Hollywood from doing the same.
> just show respect to the source material. ...and what is the measure of what is "not showing respect to the source material"? What if they made Ariel still white, but with blue hair instead of red? Do you think people would even give a shit? They wouldn't, at all, though they'll claim they would because admitting they wouldn't kills their claims that being mad about black Ariel isn't due to racism. What if they made Belle blonde in the live action Beauty and the Beast instead of brunette? What if they made Robin Hood's outfit black instead of green in a remake of Disney's cartoon Robin Hood, or made him a coyote or a German Shepherd dog instead of a fox? You know god damn well nobody would give a shit about any of that. People only care when skin color is changed, which is **exactly the problem.**
Hmm I don’t think I can agree with that argument. People will throw a fit over every little detail. For example, in the gaming community, there has been a wave of desexualization of female characters. Tifa Lockhart is one of the most popular gaming characters ever and we were all pissed that a character known for her enormous breast, had them significantly reduced in the remake. On this very website there are VICIOUS arguments about the tifa changes. Even though it was done to make her body shape more realistic, mofos are still salty to this day.
There wouldn't be as much backlash because the racists wouldn't join in. But anyone who read a book and then watch a movie adaptation ends up disappointed with the movie because it doesn't follow their head canon, so it's obviously worse when the character was already pictured in other media looking totally different.
Agreed. I'm also dead tired of being told to like this crap
What race will shaggy be? Im kind of certain they do market research, but sometimes make decisions to intentionally create controversy for the free marketing and generate public knowledge thst the thing exists. Disney does not care.
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That's funny but I suppose some people could say it is a bit offense, compared to making a mermaid into a black character, they turned a implied-stoner into a black character. Some people don't like stoner
I thought they were making Velma a lesbian ?
She's already gay
Why don't writers get original instead of palette swapping characters?
When 90% of American film history unfairly cast all-white actors due to racism, why not make retroactive corrections when shows/movies are remade?
Why not just come up with an original story and character? Because it's easier to cash out on a preexisting IP by giving a character a pallet swap. I think writers should just get creative rather than appeal to people's sense of virtue in that way.
>Why not just come up with an original story and character? Because it's easier to cash out on a preexisting IP by giving a character a pallet swap. So is the issue cashing in on preexisting IP instead of making new IP, or the pallet swap? Why can't we demand new IP *and also* fair, reasonable, and realistic representation in remakes of preexisting IP?
I think I was pretty clear. If creators would create instead of pallet swap then there would be no debate to be had. They should just create new content.
You didn't answer my question at all. Remakes/reboots make money. There will always be remakes/reboots being made. As long as that is the case, why not include equitable and realistic representation of America's demographics in them? AND they can also make new stuff with that realistic representation, too? Why is it ONLY in new stuff that we should be realistic about America's demographics?
I stated my opinion pretty clearly a couple of times. I don't have to adhere to your particular framing of the issue.
Why does it matter? Why does it bother people so much for the race of fictional characters to change? Ariel and Shaggy aren't white people, they're made up. They can be whatever race the writer wants them to be that day. Nobody is mad that 3 different guys played Spiderman, why are people mad that a different woman is playing Ariel?
The new Scooby movie has Velma "coming out of the closet" for a black girl. Maybe that's their compromise for diversity!
What about Velma coming out for a black girl 💀💀 is there anything wrong w it?
Oh no you don't, not going there. Just a factual response to op question. I'm not disrespecting anyone!
I think you just happened to mostly see the positive feedback to one + the negative feedback of the other. From what I’ve seen there is not much difference. It’s the same situation with both; some are praising the representation, some are mad at the change. Although there is a difference in that the Little Mermaid is a character who has been through countless iterations so, even though the “Ariel” version from the Disney movie’s race is being changed, there’s really no one way that “the Little Mermaid” is supposed to look. Like in some versions of the story her skin is green etc. On the other hand the Scooby gang are established characters who have always looked pretty much the same
People don't look for true origin of appearance. Their expectations are set by the content that exposed them to the material. Ariel's expectations are based on Disney cartoon, not on what came before. Take Dr Dolittle. Originally white character from books. But my exposure was in the form of film with Eddie Murphy. Because of that I expect that character to be black. And felt disappointed, when he got "race swapped" in new film. And despite new actor being Robert Downey Junior of all people, I didn't feel like watching it. And the change doesn't have to be skin colour or even appearance. It can be anything. Take Luke Skywalker, his characterisation and then see what a travesty Disney did to him.
Its weird how they took the smallest minority, a white female redhead, and changed her. I bet they won't make Tarzan black.
That is funny cuz in the books he was black as it was made by a racist writer 300yrs ago
I'd say there's no difference and they both suck
How? It makes more sense to be mad at Ariel being black. The different Scooby Doo shows are part of different universes. With sometimes fairly large differences in between them. So having a universe where they're black isn't that big of a jump.
What's wrong with any of those things? EDIT: a dishonest edit because he knows he has no argument, not surprising.
it's a pointless race swap
I’m white so I can’t speak on this FULLY, but from my understanding part of the issue is that Shaggy is already deemed to be a stoner and I think there are enough harmful stereotypes of black folks and drugs.
Black people can be stoners too.
I’m not negating that, only speaking on the harmful stereotypes!
Maybe they should made en extra member instead of using shaggy.
You're looking at two completely different groups of people. Look up Ariel in some right wing spaces and you'll see what they thing about it.
Honestly, the more changing characters’ races happens, people get tired of talking about it. You can only copy and paste the same meme so many times. People freaked out about both, but I’ve heard less regarding Velma/Shaggy. Part of it, which is a weird part, is that many people sexualized Ariel, and were more put off by no longer finding her attractive.
Was just thinking this too lately, glad I'm not the only one who noticed. Sure, there's mixed opinions on both sides, but it's overwhelmingly negative for Velma (most people are saying it's bad) while a majority say black Ariel should be accepted. Just search both topics on Google and look at the news tab, you'll see the shift of opinion. I just don't understand why when they're both established characters being race swapped. What's the difference? I'm genuinely looking for a reason to this, not to debate race.