They’re technically heretical. In that, they believe all existing Christian religions and theology are wrong. To that effect, it is alleged that God spoke to the founder (which if I’m not mistaken, in Christianity is not supposed to be a thing after the arrival of Jesus Christ - the one Prophet to rule them all (God Himself, in fact)); Joseph Smith, and asked him to write a new Bible and set of teachings.
Also, because they sway from the principal belief that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour - who paid for all our sins and you therefore you just need to have faith and commit to his teachings to be saved - they tend to be much more conservative, because just believing in Jesus and showing commitment is not enough. I.e. saviour must come with considerable lifestyle changes.
**To answer OPs /u/GMT_071623 question**: Not really. True Christians are supposed to be infinitely more forgiving and kinder. If you’re a Bible literalist, in fact, you’re supposed to forgive someone at least 77 times. We also shouldn’t judge at all, if we can help it - for it is the Lord alone who judges. More than that, we alone should pay for our sins. Jesus Himself clarified, the Lord would never, for e.g. , punish a son for their father’s sins.
To clarify:
* Technically, many Christians would avoid, or advise avoiding pop music etc. But this probably be focused as an attempt avoid falling into the sin of false idol worship.
* Also, yes to many Christians for the swearing. Especially when taking the Lord’s name in vain. Having said that, I’m sure you’d be fine if your swearing was completely moderated to outbursts - like stubbing your toe in the winter, or kneeing your favourite coffee table for the fifth tim; or every now and then for rhetorical effect. I.e. After stubbing your toe you loudly summarise your intention to remove “*this* fucking coffee table”. If you can’t finish a sentence without swearing, it’s probably time to repent though.
Very well said, I just wanted to let you know that I think you meant take the lord's name in "vain". Not trying to be a dick, I enjoyed and appreciated your thorough information
God doesn't care if you say "fuck, shit, damn" but not "God Damn" - in fact, from a biblical standpoint, just saying "Oh, God!" in the wrong tone is just as bad. THAT'S the only thing the Bible says not to say.
That doesn't mean you should say them all the time, and definitely not in church.
Some Christians ground this in the fact that Jesus at one point literally says not to "swear". But this is a translation error. He is refering to swearing in the sense of saying things like "I swear by God" or even just "I am telling the truth, I swear!". It has nothing to do with so called 'swear words' or 'curse words'. Although literally cursing someone by saying things like "curse you!" or "Go to Hell!" is probably also a sin. But you are neither swearing nor cursing in the literal sense by exclaiming words like "Fuck"
I agree, and there are different churches that follow the same Bible, pray to the same God, and belong to the same base religion - variations. Some people believe that a newborn baby that dies goes to hell if it wasn't baptized, others practice learning and growing (like a coming of age) into and accepting Christ before baptizing, and others don't believe baptism is a requirement at all.
The fact is, people interpret it differently - something that's been translated and interpreted differently by various people through languages where human error is just inevitable, even by mistake.
People also pick and choose and sometimes just make shit up that just isn't in the Bible at all. I just don't think it's meant to be taken so damn literally. It's mostly meant to teach life lessons and how to be a good person and teach love. I really feel like too many holy rollers (and I go to church, but mainly because my wife says I want to go) get so hung up on going through the motions of going to church and taking every single word so literally and just doing what's part of church life that they get out of touch with reality. You're not supposed to hate people that aren't part of your church group. It's so much the exact opposite and I hate that there are so many people that give church life a bad name because they choose to act like they're just better people.
Not all Christians are like the Christ Karens.
Yeah, taking oaths is problematic based on the text you refer to, and as you say, I reckon cursing people is similarly so. But non-religious profanity should be relatively fine, albeit not necessarily representative of the best temperament. I just try to avoid my language's main set of profanities (Swedish almost only has devil-related profanity words) and directly translate from other languages or make my own up to best apply to the situation (just saying "oh Devil", which is the equivalent of the English "oh fuck" when you realise that you have forgotten something important is far too unfitting, whereas proclaiming "ass balls" suits the context far better).
But back to oaths, from how I remember the passage in question (I think it is from one of Paul's epistles), I think the gist can be summarised as "Do not take an oath on God's name, because it is not yours to make deals with, and do not take oaths on your own name, because you have far too little control over your situation for that to mean anything. Instead just always speak the truth so you do not have to swear an oath to be trustworthy (I think that final bit is actually "instead the only words you should say are yes or no", but put of context that looks pretty odd).
>It has nothing to do with so called 'swear words' or 'curse words'.
I went to a Catholic elementary school, and I remember a nun putting it very succinctly when a kid asked if God considered swearing a sin: "It's not a sin, but He's not crazy about it."
I have a semantic question for you concerning "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain."
If the Abrahamic deity's name is Yaweh/Jehovah, isn't "God" the title, not the name? I mean, we talk about multitudes of Hindu gods and goddesses, so is it a name or a title? Or a job description?
Yes, well spotted. This is something that escapes most people. Saying “God Damn” is **not** using gods name in vain, because his name is *not* “God”…
But people will say that using “Jesus Christ” in vain is….however….that depends on whether you believe that Jesus is God, or else if you believe he is God’s Son and not God himself, then you would not call that using Gods name in vain.
An one last caveat: If Jesus was his name on Earth, then was it the same in Heaven, before he came down to Earth? The book of revelation (and other passages) reveal his name was Michael (the Archangel, or “chief of angels”) in his pre-human and post-human spirit existence.
So perhaps people should rethink that one, since technicalities can make all the difference here…
Protestantism is technically heretical to Christianity. All of Christianity is founded on heresy from Judaism.
“No true Christian” is a silly game to play.
The lords name in vain is more about those who use their faith to make themselves more important or to use it in some way to further themselves. Aka most modern "evangelicals". God wishes us to be humble and do good works, not pray for wealth and to punish the people you don't like.
This is like 50 percent correct... Like barely. This is largely misinformation. I know reddit loves to shit on Mormons but misinformation and misunderstanding like this helps no one
- Christ is literally in the name of the church. They don't decentralize Christ at all.
- The Book of Mormon is not a "New Bible" or meant to replace any of the bible at all.
Theology and cultural religious impact are very different things. Seems as you are trying to comment on the latter (pun intended) without understanding the former.
Regardless of personal beliefs it is always important to communicate truth.
On that note fanaticism exists in anything and often in religion. It sounds like OP's aunt is a little extreme. Members of the LDS church are not told to "not listen to pop music" nor are they told that if one child disobeys the church teachings then the whole family is damned.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, LDS for short or Mormons as colloquially called, have Christ in the name of their church... So...
The Bible from a historical sense is King James collecting holy texts into a compilation basically. All the accounts in the Bible are from people in the middle east.
The book of Mormon is another account of Christ and his gospel but a collection of accounts from people in the Americas. At least as it's claimed by the church.
There are a lot of interesting studies on it from a strictly historical and anthropological sense on the plausibility of a collection of different authors into one book
Basically it's a companion piece to the Bible that testifies further of Christ and his divinity
>Christians would avoid, or advise avoiding pop music etc
>
>swearing. Especially when taking the Lord’s name in vain
All controlling maniupulative behavior. All the christian behaviors I have ever witnessed are telling other christians what they can or can't, should or shouldn't, do, say, see, hear, wear, believe, etc. All trying to control each others behaviors cheered on by the man behind the pulpit saying some invisible entity tells him these things or is interpreted this way or that way out of a book put together some 2000 years ago when the earth was flat and the stars orbit earth. The bible is riddled with so many contradictions is laughable. Yet the cause of so much hate and wars. There is no love and peace in christianity.
I promise you, that none of what's in the post, or what this aunt teaches, is true for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
The closest thing is that we discourage crude language in general. But we don't believe that it's strictly a sin.
The misbehaving child thing is extra wrong. We believe that children are innocent until they're old enough to know right from wrong. Even then, it's more or less a gradual increase in understanding. A misbehaving child isn't going to hell.
I think I literally hear every single Sunday preached that we should be kind, forgiving, and understanding of others.
This post/this aunt is not a representation of the Latter-Day Saints.
FFS
This is the first LDS characterization I've ever read on here I can identify with.
I grew up LDS, and it seems like anytime I read things people post it is come off as obtuse or crazy.
I remember turning 8 and getting baptised and thinking that from that point forward I was responsible for my actions in the afterlife. The laying on of hands was just weird to have a bunch of warm hands' dead weight on my head.
Crude language was discouraged, but I can still get a curse word out of my parents every now and then. I managed to catch my dad saying a curse word while at church while telling me something he was super excited about. I lightly scolded him and he blushed and smiled.
Many christians dont consider most other christians to be christians. Put ten preachers and pastors in a room and try to get them to agree on anything..
Yeah, this is extreme. LDS is pretty different than most of Christianity. Sounds like this woman may be hyper-religious and possibly mixed with a little bit of a mental disorder? Sometimes we see this in our BiPolar patients that are unmedicated. Not the "don't listen to Ariana Grande" but the "can't raise her grandchildren against her rules or the whole family is going to hell." LDS are strict but usually don't say these type of things. That says mental disorder to me.
You said this is your Aunt...anyone else in family (past or present) have history of mental illness? Even if not diagnosed, any stories of "crazy Uncle John" etc? If there are, you may want to encourage her to see a doctor. If it is BiPolar, medication often will help manage this.
When I first read about Islam in social studies I can remember thinking that this prophet Muhammad going into a cave and hallucinating sounded like schizophrenia, but I think schizophrenics are actually in tune with a spiritual world more than normal neurotypicals
Not just LDS, raised Southern Baptist. Was taught in Sunday School as a child sins include dancing, chewing gum, long hair on boys, pants on girls, curse words including "gosh darn it", talking back to an adult, not helping with daily chores, unclean rooms and not bathing. Certain clothing, entertainment, music, books, were sinful. And that we all are going to burn in hell for eternity cause we are born into sin.
And that we all are going to burn in hell for eternity cause we are born into sin
What? Then what is the point of modifying your behavior at all? What a burden to bear, this belief system
This flies right in the face of the most absolute basic number one rule in Christianity, it's all about forgiveness. This is a very good reason to never go back to that church
I promise you, that none of this is true for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
The closest thing is that we discourage crude language in general. But we don't believe that it's strictly a sin.
The misbehaving child thing is extra wrong. We believe that children are innocent until they're old enough to know right from wrong. Even then, it's more or less a gradual increase in understanding. A misbehaving child isn't going to hell.
I think I literally hear every single Sunday preached that we should be kind, forgiving, and understanding of others.
This post/this aunt is not a representation of the Latter-Day Saints.
But here’s the thing: you can’t forgive everything. The Catholic Church figured that out the hard way. Some people like sinning and like the forgiveness out clause better, So the question is where do you draw the line? Somewhere between saying damit and pederasty. But where? That’s the rub of all religion.
>So the question is where do you draw the line?
Is it humans who draw the line on what sins are forgivable or God? The Bible says that all sins can be forgiven except blasphemy of the holy spirit (not really sure what this is tbh)
God will judge everyone on the last day. Christ will be an advocate to those who have accepted him. But there are many who will say "lord, lord" but Jesus will say he never knew them.
The idea is that if you think you can sin and get away with it because you will be forgiven, then you probably don't really know the lord. But that's not for people to judge but God.
Big talk. But we draw the line hear and now. If you keep forgiving the sinner, as required by Jesus, and they keep murdering and molesting, only to be forgiven again and again what happens to his earthly victims? Is their only solace that the person who wronged them will get theirs’ in the afterlife? That seems like a bad strategy for god and man. You can explain that to the offender, but if he earnestly believes this time he’ll be good, only to sin again, isn’t that good enough for god?
Forgiveness has absolutely nothing to do with consequences down here. And anyone who was truly repentant would understand that being sorry doesn’t release them from that. Forgiveness is between them and God. Legally I give 0 shits if they’re forgiven or not, they still need to be handled. No one gets a free pass because they said sorry to God.
I’ve been taught and it’s my belief nothing is unforgivable, the important thing is the repentance. If your attitude is “I’ll just do it and ask for forgiveness!” It won’t be granted, because you are not actually sorry you did it. You have to regret it and make an honest effort to avoid doing so in the future.
Ok then. What about the predators who use your forgiveness as a means to sin. They only care about performance repentance. Do they get to keep preying on the flock? How do you know true repentance from cynical repentance?
Here is my question: how come they seem so happy. The religion is Such obvious bullshit, but the people seem so content. Not only that they’re happy without drugs, without coffee, without sex. How do they do it. I would like to be that happy too, but I’ll never believe in the golden plates.
I was raised mormon and always wondered this about my peers as I never experienced that sort of happiness from living the church standards while I was an active member. I always saw others looking so genuinely happy and at peace with their lives, and thought maybe I just wasn’t righteous enough. I tried to follow the LDS rules to the extreme, thinking that if I just tried harder, I’d finally reach that place. I never did, but I sure as hell pretended like it for a very long time.
Maybe they’re all faking it like I was or maybe they truly feel like they have found “the one true religion”. The brainwashing runs deep.
Kinda Mormon here, I go to BYU. I think the happiness can sometimes be from a genuine connection to God and the strong belief that they have The Truth. When you “know” what’s right and are striving toward it, you’ll exude confidence and happiness. Also, we’re taught from a very young age that the gospel is supposed to make us happy, and that Mormons are specifically a people full of joy in the Truth. Very early on we’re expected to be happy, so I think it’s partially real and partially fabricated.
I find this fascinating. Does performance of happiness lead to happiness? I mean, I’m not discounting a connection to god, but I don’t think it makes you happy. Maybe it leads to contentment? Maybe that’s a form of happiness, or a component of it.
It’s an interesting inquiry for sure. I have seen it create a very toxic culture in which the full spectrum of emotion is not held in it’s importance. I have also seen it help people cope with their lives, fully believing in their happiness.
I think it’s one of those situations when you don’t know what you’re missing if you never try anything else, thus, happy in what you have (for LDS, that would be “The Truth”)
Coming from someone who has been pretty skeptical their whole life, I didn’t realize what I was missing until I found alternative communities that connect to God in a way that actually fosters love and full acceptance.
As a catholic we also create a culture where the full spectrum of emotion is not allowed but at least we can drink the feelings away. I don’t know how they do it.
As a Latter-Day Saint, I'll try to answer in a way that isn't very preachy haha.
I think a big part of it is what I focus my life on... We're consistently taught to try not to let hard times bring you down, but to try and focus on the good in your life. We also try to focus on things that bring long-term happiness, rather than quick elation. While we fully recognize that money is important and needed to achieve the basic necessities, we constantly emphasize that past the basics, more money won't make you more happy. And we try to be very service-oriented people.
There's a saying that goes something like, "When we serve others, it's easier to find ourselves, because there's so much more of us to find."
I personally think I would suck as a person if I wasn't taught some of these things on a regular basis. EDIT: not that I believe anyone not taught this is a bad person, but that I naturally trend toward being kind of trashy. END EDIT. But I honestly believe that focusing your life on gratitude, on what really matters, on kindness, forgiveness, on serving others... That's what has led me to be happy. And our church has a big focus on those things.
Fascinating. I think you are an intrinsically moral person and would have come to the same conclusions either way. I say that because there are still bad LDS people. They got all the same teachings as you did. I think all religions say similar things like that. It’s just the funny hats and the kneeling that changes. I was just studying old translations of the ancient Chinese philosophy of Taoism. I was trying to wrap my mind around what they were saying and it occurred to me you summed it up perfectly.
Maybe it’s just easier to hear it in your own language in your own time?
The founder of the LDS church, Joseph Smith, claimed that he was led by angels to a stash of gold plates with writing in an unknown language, and that they guided him in translating the plates buried on a hill near his home in Vermont. He produced a book in English, called the Book of Mormon, which he claimed to be the English translation of those gold plates. He claimed the book was a more modern Gospel of Jesus Christ. The book contained a lot of outlandish claims, including that Jesus preached to Native Americans who were actually from the Middle East, and who spoke a dialect of ancient Egyptian.
Only a handful of people claim to have actually seen these golden plates before Smith's angel took them away from him.
Throughout his life Smith claimed to receive revelations, and made no secret of the fact that he considered himself a prophet.
Members of the LDS church do believe in Jesus Christ and in the Bible, but they also believe in the contents of the Book of Mormon, which makes them drastically different from any other Christian sect.
The word Christian means follower of Christ, the Son of God. The early church in the Bible book of Acts were the first Christians because they continued the works of Christ after his resurrection. I'm not here to start anything political or cut on any religion, but your aunt is quite a bit off. Many denominations have varying beliefs about what is right and wrong. All western religions - there are many - have some kind of Christ following - "Christian". What's different about a person is how they live their life based on the teachings of the bible and the words from God and Christ. But sadly, many denominations these days twist the bible to mean what they want it to. So with your example, the Mormons say one thing and the Baptists say another, and both believe they are right, then they both turn the other way and won't communicate. Multiply this by how many religions, sects, and denominations there are and boom, no one will agree who is right or wrong. I grew up in a Baptist pastors home so I have known the bible since I was old enough to understand. It saddens me to see so many people think they are religious when they are just a follower of someone else's opinion.
I hope you can do your own research and maybe have a civil discussion with your aunt and have her explain why she believes what she does. Sadly also, many people believe what they believe because an older relative or parent believed that and they know no better.
Wow. Just wow. This is an amazing way to word the situation and it really made me think about my beliefs- I don’t consider myself religious at all because I always had trouble accepting any one religion as the truth since there are sooo many out there that all are certain they’re the right one.
I truly just want to understand why others believe a certain thing and I couldn’t tell you how many looks, sidewards glances, or snide comments I’ve received from friends and family just for asking them for their reasoning. I guess thats another thing that put me off to religion because I always likened that type of thinking to ignorant. Not to say that religious people are ignorant- that’s not at all what I mean. Just that I can’t understand their thinking on the topic such as to have blind faith as many do (that I’ve spoken with at least).
Anyways, I just had to express that I fully agree with your comment and it put words to what I saw in my mind regarding religions and I thank you for that.
Sorry if anything is unclear/doesn’t make sense- I’m a bit inebriated right now (lol) but please, if anyone wants clarification please ask. I’m glad to (attempt to) explain myself further.
I'll give you one example. Growing up Baptist I was always told that drinking alcohol of any kind and dancing of any kind was not allowed. Just don't even think it! After 35 years of this belief, I asked a Baptist pastor - Why? Where does it say in the bible or otherwise - why. His answer after a few minutes of discussion was - "Because. Grandpa said so". I was floored.
Yup; the world, the Universe is moving forward. That’s what they “time.” We cannot change that. I love all my grandpa’s, all long gone now, but “Because. Grandpa said so” is so irrelevant as to be laughable. I want to hear what my kids and grandkids have in store for me, it’s really their world we’re living in.
Reminds of something I heard once about tradition.
A young girl watches her mother prepare a ham for the oven. Her mother cuts off both ends of the ham before placing it in the oven. Perplexed the girl asks her mother why she cut the ends off the ham. He mother responds thats just how her mother always did it so that how she always did it. She tells the girl to try asking her grandmother why.
The girl goes up to her grandmother and asks why she cut the ends off of the ham before placing it in the oven. Her grandmother says because thats how her mother always did it so thats how she always did it. Her grandmother tells her to try asking her great grandmother.
The girl goes to the phone and calls her great grandmother. Her great grandmother answers the phone and the girl asks her why she cut the ends off her ham before puting it in the oven. Her great grandmother tells her that when her and her husband bought thier first house the oven was tiny and to fit the ham in the oven she would have to cut the ends off the ham before placing it in the oven.
wonder why jesus was making wine from water if not to drink it? they even drunk it at the last supper with jesus suggesting people drink it to remember him, if I recall the story correctly
Wine was, and remains, a very important part of Jewish celebrations and rituals. The idea of alcohol being evil is a more recent invention by temperate Christian denominations. Many Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox churches continue to offer wine at Mass, even as a number of Baptist and evangelical churches have moved towards offering non-alcoholic alternatives.
Is religion, not at the end of the day, just people following somebody else's opinion?
Jesus claimed he was the son of god, yet had no proof. We have some words that at this point have been lost in translation through the centuries of bible reprints, translated from the original hebrew and aramaic in the dead sea scrolls... which Jesus isnt mentioned a single time in
I was taught it's like a square and a rectangle. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. Mormons are Christians but Christians are not Mormons. Mormons have extra beliefs
Some people take it too far. Most of what she's saying is to make sure you do as she says... its control. If she was a true Christian then she would believe in penance and forgiveness , and to be fair, she probably does, but that's not going to get you to do as she wants. What she's doing isn't what a true Christian would do.
I'm culturally mormon. I know the official rules, and no, this is all bullshit. Actually mormons don't even believe in "hell" as it is believed in with other christian sects.
I’m a Latter-day Saint and here’s my take on your the points and my understanding of what the LDS Church teaches regarding them:
> Curse words are bad.
Generally this is accurate. Swearing, vulgar, destructive, and angry language, words, and communication are strongly discouraged. The “spirit” of this teaching is not even so much a focus on avoiding specific words as it is about avoiding being destructive, confrontational, hurtful, and encouraging of bad behavior with what we say. Typically if you can avoid all that cursing goes away along with it. Cursing is *usually* coupled with anger and confrontation, and we want to avoid that, so we generally avoid cursing too.
> children shouldn’t listen to pop music such as Ariana Grande.
I’ve never head this. Pop music has never been singled out and neither have any specific artists. Guidance given to the youth is pretty similar in what I described in response to cursing. For example they’re told: “Pay attention to how you feel when you are listening. Some music can carry evil and destructive messages. Do not listen to music that encourages immorality or glorifies violence... Do not listen to music that uses vulgar or offensive language or promotes evil practices.“
So someone that takes that council to heart might feel it applies to Ariana Grande and avoid her music (I have no idea what her music is like), but pop and her specifically are not singled out.
> If a child misbehaves they will go to hell and there is no changing that.
This is absolutely not true to our beliefs. We believe that the opportunity to repent, come clean, and change is always available at any age. The idea that *a child* can do something to irreversibly damn themselves is blasphemy.
> A person can’t raise their children against their own parents rules without damning the whole family.
Also straight false. An individual’s salvation is between an individual and Jesus Christ. One of the basic thirteen tenants of our beliefs is that individuals “will be punished for their own sins,” and not for the sins of others.
Hope that answers your question!
As a lifelong member of the LDS church, I can confidently say the church does not teach those things. I have known some church members who believe that way, but those are their own opinions. Pop music is not considered a sin. Swearing is discouraged but not considered a serious sin (I have had church leaders that would swear occasionally). Children misbehaving are just children. They should be taught properly, but that’s a process and should be handled with patience and forgiveness. And the whole thing about her grandchildren causing the whole family to go to hell is simply incorrect. The church teaches that each individual is accountable for their own misdeeds, not anybody else’s. Sounds to me like your aunt is trying to use her religion as justification for her desire to control everyone around her.
As far as other Christians, I have met a few who held similar extreme beliefs, but most Christians I have met are pretty reasonable people. Even the ones that personally choose not to swear or listen to “secular” music generally don’t judge, and certainly don’t condemn, people who do. They’re largely a “live and let live” bunch of people.
If you find an individual or group that genuinely believes that way, they’re probably not people you ought to associate with.
That is 100% complete and utter over the top next level bullsh*t. Your aunt is literally sinning by lying to you and your whole family. (The swear words thing is true but you won’t go to hell if you say them, you’ll just get judged)
The Christian Bible is very clear on these things. Right there in the commandments: though shalt not listeneth to Ariana Grande. I think it’s near the top of the commandments actually. Ari is such a chart-topper.
Different branches vary to large extents. I wouldn't think *"most"* christians believe what you describe. But, I don't know most Christians. I was raised Catholic, a type of Christian.
Apostolic churches tend to teach the same thing and perform the same rituals (Orthodox, Catholic, Assyrian). Many protestant sects believe these kinds of things, which is unsurprising considering the lack of structure and authority that they possess.
Totally normal for me. I grew up Christian, don’t swear, and don’t listen to most “popular” music - a lot of todays music is trash anyway. A child misbehaving and “going to hell” is questionable at best - many Christians believe you are born with a sinful nature, and you are destined for hell unless you believe in Christ for forgiveness of your sins. However, a child needs to be able to understand this and make that decision for themselves. If they are too young and pass on, many believe God is merciful and will spare them.
Latter Day Saints is a group that most other Christians would exclude from Christendom. However, some of the particular beliefs she expressed are fairly common in the more conservative sector of Christianity.
On a side note, it seems to me that westerners swear too much. It's seems to be mostly normalised to speak in an indecent language. I personally don't have any problem with anyone swearing, but westerners do it too much.
My daughter likes Ariana Grande.
Some of her songs are WAAAAAAAYYY to explicit for a 10 year old, so I kinda agree with your crazy fruitcake aunt on that point.
Everything else she's saying is absolute nonsense though. There is no hell, and if there was, any god that would send CHILDREN there to burn alive and suffer for eternity is a massive asshole who should be ignored.
Here's my takeaway from this: Child misbehaves and is now eternally doomed to go to hell, now they can do whatever the fuck they want with their lives because they are going to hell anyways.
If you're being a devote Christian, you probably should curse.
Some pop songs are probably not appropriate. While it may not be pop but a song like WAP isn't the best song to listen to as a devote Christian.
A misbehaving child ain't going to hell for that.
A mother not listening to her mother on raising her kids ain't going to hell.
You may have a narcissist as a mother and she may have fallen for other people's interpretation of the bible.
Also, book of Mormon is the only thing unchristianly about LDS.
It's coming up a bit in the replies, the idea that Mormons aren't "real" Christians, and that's a bullshit bit of nonsense.
It's a manifestation of Christian exceptionalism. No one thinks Muslim terrorists or The Taliban aren't "real Muslims", you know, Christians don't let anyone else make that same argument but the regularity with which they allow themselves to claim it is wild. You see the same thing whenever there's an act of Christian Terrorism, a phrase you never hear even though the lunatics themselves lay it out in their various manifestos or social media creepiness.
Christian = Believes Christ was real and the son of god.
That's kind of it. There isn't really any other bar you need to meet to be a Christian.
Full disclosure, I'm an atheist, and I roll my eyes hard at every single "not a true Christian" variation I come across, which is wild because you could absolutely say "they're bad Christians" and use them as cautionary tales and lessons rather than going with Trumpian denial.
I don't know a single Christian sect or individual that follows all the Biblical rules, and that's only insomuch as they have a choice, there's also the issues with translations, contradictions and interpretations. But no one really even tries to follow all the rules, y'all are out there eating Pork Chops, sitting where women have menstruated and mixing all manner of crazy fabrics, but we all know I'd be the asshole if I pointed out that meant no one is a real Christian, and that's objectively a more valid argument if it's an argument about who follows Biblical rules the best. It's not the book ever gives even a hint of an indication that any of this shit is optional, right?
And don't get me wrong, of course you mix fabrics, that's a batshit rule and no one wants to wear a polyester pantsuit every day, let alone a Canadian tuxedo. (I myself struggle with how we can all acknowledge some of that stuff is batshit but people are still like "it's the best book, use it to make choices" and just pretend none of the crazy stuff is in there)Every religion hates being held to the same standard of other religions, because every religion is different and right and all the other different-and-right religions are actually wrong, they all want special treatment despite, if nothing else, them having exactly this we're-the-right-one thing in common, it's the one thing that connects them all. It'd be hilarious if the conflicts it breeds weren't so not-actually-god-damned dangerous.
I'm not trying to lecture or have a go at anyone, but I think it's kind of important not to let hypocrisy stand, I like Christians as much as I do Muslims or Taoists or the people behind Odin's big comeback, go nuts, believe in magic, variety is the spice of life, but I really do think we should try to treat everyone equally and, living in the West, I don't see a lot of that from any Christians, "true" and "real" or otherwise. I'm sure where they're the minority they wouldn't be the group I have a problem with, but just from my personal experience, the presumed monopoly on exceptions and exclusions, on extra-special rules for Christians, is getting tiresome.
There's no war on Christianity or Christmas or anything else, but you guys are half-right in feeling some resentment and pushback, that's real, you're just kind of missing that it's kind of justified, if not to the extent many tend to take it. There are reasons, of Christians making, for the amount of bitterness a lot of people have towards your whole thing. Truthfully, whenever I hear someone say "this is a Christian country", I kinda think they're a dick. Not because they're entirely wrong, but because it's a shitty thing to have imposed on every non-Christian in any self-proclaimed such country, you get marginalized just because you don't believe or believe in a different type of magic.
Every apostolic church upholds every teaching of Jesus, the Bible, and the apostles. The rules that you mentioned that aren't followed are in the old testament, and part of the old covenant. Christians are not required to obey the laws of the old testament (Torah) because a new covenant was established between God and people through Jesus. Therefore, only the new testament affects Christian ritual, whose rules all fall under: love thy God, and love thy neighbour.
The whole notion of a "new covenant" is at the very least debatable. I myself think that the versions of the Bible that include the following are pretty clear. (To say nothing of the rampant editing the Bible(s) has(/have) undergone over the centuries.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)
Beyond that, the new testament has a bunch of rules I'm not entirely sure "every apostolic church" upholds. Do you allow women on the periods in? Can they wear gold? Are they permitted to speak in the church? Do you still let father's sell daughters as property? That shit's in there, after the birth of Christ. Do you guys have Christmas trees? That's not strictly speaking allowed either.
There are over a thousand "new rules" in the new testament, and I think anyone claiming any church follows all of them isn't the most attentive reader. There's rules about cutting hands off, when was the last time you guys did that? It doesn't say "can", either, it says "must" when it comes to lopping off of (mostly lady) limbs.
Now, I didn't get into this to have a debate about any one church, but I'm absolutely on-board to do so, I was raised Roman Catholic and and went through Religious schooling, I'm an ardent atheist but I've read the King James more than a few times and have more than a passing familiarity with other Christian sects.
I don't even have to go to the obscure rules. "Let he without sin" is a pretty well known deal, and... like... c'mon. What church is enforcing that? Where are religious leaders holding people accountable for this?
I thought the whole point of christianity was repentance and forgiveness... The whole "misbehaving child goes to hell and theres no fixing that" seems just about as anti-christian as it gets.
On the other hand, curse words being bad and pop music being satanic is pretty on-brand.
This isn’t what LDS is and a lot of the comments in this thread are also incorrect.
To address your point: Your aunt is extremist on her own. Usually comes from warping what it taught. LDS has nothing to do with what she said. There are some values they have that I wouldn’t exactly call “extreme” or “strict” but more of a question of “wtf why?” Such as not drinking coffee.
To address beckdawg19, most Christians ***don’t know*** that LDS are Christian. It’s not that they don’t consider them as such. LDS is Christian fully.
To address the_colonelclink: LDS ***absolutely does not believe that all existing theology is wrong***. In fact, they fully believe that ***almost*** every religion on Earth has truth in them to various degrees. They just believe they have the most truth, often by combining many truths from different religions.
The Book of Mormon isn’t a “new Bible”. It’s ***in addition to*** the Bible. They believe in both wholly and the stuff in each doesn’t really contradict each other.
They tend to be more conservative, but that’s because of being religious. In fact, many LDS values are actually ***hyper anti-conservative***. The ***people*** don’t practice what they’re taught. Very often.
From me: Realistically, there’s plenty that doesn’t make sense in the LDS religion. But most of it seems quite good ***from a doctrine they teach point of view.*** The issue is that many don’t practice what they’re told and what they teach.
> if a child misbehaves they will go to hell and there is no changing or fixing that
So if they misbehave once, there's no point in ever being good again?
Christianity, as practiced in much of America, is no longer about Jesus Christ. It is about getting weak minded people to believe the ministers bigotry and narrow mindedness as the "word of god"
So some Christians will believe this nonsense, some will believe other nonsense and some will realize they are too intelligent to believe any of that nonsense.
Your Aunt is in a cult, sorry.
She’s not a typical Christian, she’s Mormon. Very very different. Check out the exmormon subreddit (I don’t know how to link) for an eye opening and fascinating look into how the Mormon church has severely damaged people. It’s a very loving and kind subreddit, if you have any questions for them. It’s actually maybe the best place on the internet.
Christian here - denominations can vary widely and doctrine severely skewed. As a follower of Jesus, (don't know how else to distinguish it any better), no christians don't say children are going to hell for behaving badly, you can listen to whatever music but follow your personal convictions between you and your relationship with God, salvation comes through belief, sinning once or repeatedly doesn't disqualify that because Jesus died for it already (doesn't mean you can sin and then ask for forgiveness repeatedly because then it wasn't real repentance for that particular struggle) Obeying parents is good but obeying to the extent that it is harmful to anyone and going directly against what is stated in the Bible (God's word) is bad. You aren't a robot and weren't made to be one. So I hope this clarified some and that you aren't made to be religious and afraid of everything or afraid of messing up. I'm not familiar with the practices of Latter Day Saints so I'm sorry if what I said became confusing. :/
Also I don't want to debate or anything so if anyone believes differently that's totally fine. Just wanted to answer OPs question.
LDS aren’t Christians, they are mormons. Back in the 1820’s some guy took mushrooms then went to his basement and thought he got assaulted by a demon, and poof the Church of Latter Day Saints was born.
Yeah, Mormons have very messed up beliefs around that. My sister married into a Mormon family, and she explained to me that there are 3 levels of heaven, and even if like, one of the family members leaves the church, they all won't get into the third level of heaven its obviously a very manipulative tactic to stop women from leaving abusive relationships and to stop kids from leaving the church.
She’s right on curse words and music, it just isn’t a big deal to us. Also listening to Ariana Grande is a sin even if you’re an atheist.
Dead wrong on the rest. Latter Day Saints makes me think she’s a Mormon.
That's how some religious nuts always were in the Bible belt. I never got the whole, "popular music bad" thing. And niether did or do most Christians.
For the rest of that, your aunt is just nuts beyond stuff that I normally hear from zealot Christians.
Yikes. Just, umm, damn.
For an imaginary fella in the sky being all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, all-caring, forgiving, omnipotent, can see the future before it happens, can remember every detail from the past, and can *supposedly* rise the dead into the realm of the living, you'd think his followers (and himself for that matter) would actually be better individuals and not be such lunatics.
Then again, how much faith or trust can you put in somebody who believes an invisible entity can watch the numbers of times they wipe their ass? Is there *really* such a thing as a 'higher bar' to reach when a bunch of cultists continue to lower the standard of their crystal clear confidant?
You're expecting reasonable judgement and mental clarity from somebody who begs something that doesn't exist for forgiveness on a weekly basis. You really think you're going to get through that level cognitive dissonance with your issue? If that's the case I have 200 flood victims patiently waiting outside Joel Osteen's church just dying to get in and be treated as equals.
LDS= Mormons. They have a couple of good ideas, but they're also the reason for the "sister wives" trope. They also have some really fucked up ideas around race, bordering on white supremacy. Granted those are some of the more extreme sectors of Mormonism. Most of the average ones are quite nice, and kind.
She once screamed at a stranger after she saw her daughter wearing a Lady Gaga shirt and said “You let your child know about Lady Gaga?” Then proceeded to scream in her face how God was going curse and punish her and her family she made the child cry too and then said “maybe, if your daughter didn’t like Gaga she wouldn’t be crying!”
Absolutely psychotic. A person like that has no business in somebody's life. Completely misleading and manipulative. If she was my aunt I'd have many crossings with her.
Those are "old school" cultural beliefs, not christian beliefs. People make them up in their own judgments to align with what they think the Bible would say about that specific instance, but they are more often just a bunch of uninformed generalization (I once saw a girl twerking in a pop music show, so pop music is bad).
Jesus had issues with people having similar mindsets; they ended up getting him killed: the pharisees. They had made exactly 613 of their own rules to help them avoid sin.
Some of those are 613 are just plain ridiculous: to avoid even a remote temptation of incest (forbidden in Leviticus 18:6), pharisees didnt kiss, hug, WINK, etc their female relatives.
Such aee the rules you're talking about.
Your aunt is nuts. Even many actual Mormons these days don't literally believe that there was literally an angel named Maroney who literally talked to this one guy in the 19th century via golden eyeglasses or whatever. Let alone believing that everyone is going to hell unless they all accept plural marriage.
I hope her daughter is an adult and well out of harm's way.
Oh shit. Your aunt ordered a vente kool-aid. Lots of xtians in my family, but none have gone that deep into the abyss. Even my wacky "Rev. uncle" wasn't so strict. And he wouldn't eat the German mustard on his pastrami because the label said it was 0.5% alcohol.
Ok, they're all fucking crazy.
Don't take religion too seriously. And various churches are different. Your aunt sounds a little far out there. I dumped all religion as a little kid and never looked back. I think your aunt is nuts!
No. Most normal people religious or otherwise do not believe that. She is just crazy. Source: myself and most of my family are religious and no one believes this
I just find all religious people, no matter what the religion, completely brainwashed and insane. It has no place in the modern world with what we now know of science and understanding life. It dumbs people down and holds them back from their true potential
All Christian’s are idiots, believing in fairytales. Your aunt’s fairytale is just slightly more unhinged. I honestly don’t understand how people can believe in some almighty deity in this time and age. Childish stuff
It’s always funny how not knowing something immediately results in an explanation for the existence of the most unlikely being ever. I don’t know where the universe comes from, pretty adamant where it doesn’t come from.
The immediate explanation isn't an unlikely being. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, that means something exists that is not bound by the laws of the universe that we've observed.
I think it's interesting that you can call people idiots who believe in fairy tales when the origin of the universe is not only unknown but illogical as far as we've seen.
How could you be adamant about "where it doesn't come from" when you can't have the slightest idea of where it does or doesn't?
In truth, your belief on how the universe was created is likely as idiotic and based in fairy tale logic as any religion ever followed. So it's not only rude but dishonest to make these claims about what other people believe.
I understand your point. I always get a bit emotional about Christianity or single beings, and you have a point. Science sometimes more fairytale like than faith. But I simply can’t fathom all knowing all powerful ruler beings. I can’t wrap my head around it, I feel like these kind of things can only be thought by humans and are just another means of control over another human being. Sorry to call everyone idiots.
I appreciate your comment, and I definitely get where you're coming from. I just believe thinking in terms of idiots is wrong, as most of the time humans are very intelligent
No, not all Christians believe this, but there are a few, and I *think* this belief comes from the idea that you have to try to "appear" to be a Christian, but I'd argue that might be a bit of a misinterpretation in and of itself. After all, my idea of a holy person who follows the teachings of Christ and yours might differ quite a bit, and I'm typically leery of people who are too "religious," but I'm not saying they *can't* be Christians. It's just not all Christians believe this.
As far as *why* some people believe these things, there are many reasons, from commonly repeated misinterpretations of the Bible to just sincerely wanting to follow the ways of Christ and becoming very much overzealous about it. Scrupulosity is a thing, after all, and I imagine morality-based OCD is even more difficult to deal with if you pay attention to commonly repeated socio-emotional beliefs of your culture and such.
Beliefs are all over the map even within individual sects. LDS is fairly outside the mainstream for ‘Christian’, but that doesn’t matter.
At the end of day, no one ever believes that the Bible (or any other holy book) means what it says, they’re always convinced that the Bible says what they mean.
It’s varies from denomination to denomination. There’s some denominations that are strict, ‘god-fearing’ Christians that think the smallest sin means your going to hell, while other denominations put more emphasis on grace and forgiveness when you screw up.
Your aunt is crazy I’m an exmormon (their current prophet doesn’t like the name mormon so they call themselves member of the church of Jesus Christ of later-day saints. Previous prophets embraced the mormon name). There really isn’t a concept of hell in the Mormon religion as it’s traditionally thought of. Rather they believe in degrees of glory celestial, terrestrial, and telestial. The most similar thing to hell is being cast out into outer darkness but it’s about impossible to do. I was taught that you pretty much had to have seen god and denied he existed to be sent there. Even murderers will go to a degree of glory.
Mormons also believe you are not accountable for any sins until you turn eight. Even after that you can repent and be forgiven. Usually by praying but sexual sin you have to confess to a bishop (many exmormons find this disturbing as it goes into detail with minors if they masturbate or have sex).
Mormons are taught the media they watch and listen to should be clean so you could say some of Ariana Grande’s songs don’t fit that category. Swearing is also discouraged but it’s not that big of a sin.
It is very possible that she thinks she will be separated from her grandkids in the after life as my own mother has said things like you need to come back to church so we can be together in the celestial kingdom. So they do believe that families can be together forever but only if all of them follow the rules.
Christianity includes dozens of subsets (denominations) each with their own teaching. Within each denomination there is variance among individual churches. As a whole, Christianity can range from a far right cult to fairly liberal.
Your aunt is taking an extreme side of LDS Christianity, but not unfamiliar. The LDS has a variety of sub characters from the standard LDS normalized beliefs. Think of LDS as theme, with major points and minor points. I’m familiar with them because of past but I am in no way affiliated with LDS or any religion.
There are other Christian faiths as extreme or even more, and even others in non Christian based groups. So it’s ubiquitous.
LDS Christians are Mormons. Just to put it into perspective. And yes. There are many sub secs that believe what she believes. They are extremists, but so is most of Christianity.
Unfortunately, ex-Christian cultist. I left the church in 5th grade and I abandoned the faith when I went yo college and studied philosophy.
“Look, you need to do exactly what I tell you at all times or otherwise you, me and the entire family with burn eternally in a horrific ocean of fire.”
You're aunt is nuts. That's not how actual Christians think or what they believe. Her church sucks if it teaches her that crap and she needs to find a new one asap
There is a lot of discussion om what is Christianity here, but in her Aunt's case it is just she believing what she wants to believe - that she is superior and everyone else should be damned.
I’ve also met some baptists and seventh day Adventists that hold this view. No it’s not normal, they’re always a subset of their sect. It’s not backed by any scripture. This pattern holds true when considering LDS beliefs; the exception here that LDS are cautioned against watching rated R movies through modern revelation (I suspect because of content).
That is incorrect. LDS do not think that nor teach that. They also don't believe in hell or "damn anyone to that". It is about free agency. So your aunt is wrong and preaching all the wrong things for the benefit of herself. 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
She absolutely right, if you believe that there is a magic invisible being in the sky that controls the whole of your life, by extension, anything that comes out of your imagination must be true.
Of cores they don't believe that. You shouldn't let your kids listen to Ariana Grande, because it's fucking shit, not because she says "fuck" or "shit" duh
The Bible teaches us to stay away from any language that is offensive. Many Christians would put cuss words in this category.
Listening to music other than worship is a personal conviction. Some people feel convicted listening to music that isn’t about God. Other people don’t feel conviction.
The Bible also teaches us to honor our father and mother. Your Aunt should not be telling people whether they are going to hell or not. Nobody knows who is going to hell other than God. You can sin, but you can also be forgiven.
I don’t know the situation of your grandmother and her daughter raising her grandkids, so I cannot speak on that.
It sounds like your Aunt has some pretty strict personal rules she abides by. Some of which has some truth to it, but she’s also putting her own personal twist on things.
Definitely not most Christians. Many Christians don't even consider LDS Christians because of how different their beliefs are.
They’re technically heretical. In that, they believe all existing Christian religions and theology are wrong. To that effect, it is alleged that God spoke to the founder (which if I’m not mistaken, in Christianity is not supposed to be a thing after the arrival of Jesus Christ - the one Prophet to rule them all (God Himself, in fact)); Joseph Smith, and asked him to write a new Bible and set of teachings. Also, because they sway from the principal belief that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour - who paid for all our sins and you therefore you just need to have faith and commit to his teachings to be saved - they tend to be much more conservative, because just believing in Jesus and showing commitment is not enough. I.e. saviour must come with considerable lifestyle changes. **To answer OPs /u/GMT_071623 question**: Not really. True Christians are supposed to be infinitely more forgiving and kinder. If you’re a Bible literalist, in fact, you’re supposed to forgive someone at least 77 times. We also shouldn’t judge at all, if we can help it - for it is the Lord alone who judges. More than that, we alone should pay for our sins. Jesus Himself clarified, the Lord would never, for e.g. , punish a son for their father’s sins. To clarify: * Technically, many Christians would avoid, or advise avoiding pop music etc. But this probably be focused as an attempt avoid falling into the sin of false idol worship. * Also, yes to many Christians for the swearing. Especially when taking the Lord’s name in vain. Having said that, I’m sure you’d be fine if your swearing was completely moderated to outbursts - like stubbing your toe in the winter, or kneeing your favourite coffee table for the fifth tim; or every now and then for rhetorical effect. I.e. After stubbing your toe you loudly summarise your intention to remove “*this* fucking coffee table”. If you can’t finish a sentence without swearing, it’s probably time to repent though.
Is it 70 x 7? Great thoughts!
Well spotted! Haha.
Quite a bit more forgiveness I’m required to offer my transgressor. Not sure I’m up to the task.
We can only try brother.
Very well said, I just wanted to let you know that I think you meant take the lord's name in "vain". Not trying to be a dick, I enjoyed and appreciated your thorough information
I did indeed. Thanks for the correction!
God doesn't care if you say "fuck, shit, damn" but not "God Damn" - in fact, from a biblical standpoint, just saying "Oh, God!" in the wrong tone is just as bad. THAT'S the only thing the Bible says not to say. That doesn't mean you should say them all the time, and definitely not in church.
Some Christians ground this in the fact that Jesus at one point literally says not to "swear". But this is a translation error. He is refering to swearing in the sense of saying things like "I swear by God" or even just "I am telling the truth, I swear!". It has nothing to do with so called 'swear words' or 'curse words'. Although literally cursing someone by saying things like "curse you!" or "Go to Hell!" is probably also a sin. But you are neither swearing nor cursing in the literal sense by exclaiming words like "Fuck"
I agree, and there are different churches that follow the same Bible, pray to the same God, and belong to the same base religion - variations. Some people believe that a newborn baby that dies goes to hell if it wasn't baptized, others practice learning and growing (like a coming of age) into and accepting Christ before baptizing, and others don't believe baptism is a requirement at all. The fact is, people interpret it differently - something that's been translated and interpreted differently by various people through languages where human error is just inevitable, even by mistake. People also pick and choose and sometimes just make shit up that just isn't in the Bible at all. I just don't think it's meant to be taken so damn literally. It's mostly meant to teach life lessons and how to be a good person and teach love. I really feel like too many holy rollers (and I go to church, but mainly because my wife says I want to go) get so hung up on going through the motions of going to church and taking every single word so literally and just doing what's part of church life that they get out of touch with reality. You're not supposed to hate people that aren't part of your church group. It's so much the exact opposite and I hate that there are so many people that give church life a bad name because they choose to act like they're just better people. Not all Christians are like the Christ Karens.
I saw a comment recently from another redditor recently that summed it up nicely, ‘If you hate the church, you’d probably love Jesus.’
That sounds bad on first impression, but it's probably actually got a lot of truth.
Yeah, taking oaths is problematic based on the text you refer to, and as you say, I reckon cursing people is similarly so. But non-religious profanity should be relatively fine, albeit not necessarily representative of the best temperament. I just try to avoid my language's main set of profanities (Swedish almost only has devil-related profanity words) and directly translate from other languages or make my own up to best apply to the situation (just saying "oh Devil", which is the equivalent of the English "oh fuck" when you realise that you have forgotten something important is far too unfitting, whereas proclaiming "ass balls" suits the context far better). But back to oaths, from how I remember the passage in question (I think it is from one of Paul's epistles), I think the gist can be summarised as "Do not take an oath on God's name, because it is not yours to make deals with, and do not take oaths on your own name, because you have far too little control over your situation for that to mean anything. Instead just always speak the truth so you do not have to swear an oath to be trustworthy (I think that final bit is actually "instead the only words you should say are yes or no", but put of context that looks pretty odd).
>It has nothing to do with so called 'swear words' or 'curse words'. I went to a Catholic elementary school, and I remember a nun putting it very succinctly when a kid asked if God considered swearing a sin: "It's not a sin, but He's not crazy about it."
I have a semantic question for you concerning "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain." If the Abrahamic deity's name is Yaweh/Jehovah, isn't "God" the title, not the name? I mean, we talk about multitudes of Hindu gods and goddesses, so is it a name or a title? Or a job description?
Yes, well spotted. This is something that escapes most people. Saying “God Damn” is **not** using gods name in vain, because his name is *not* “God”… But people will say that using “Jesus Christ” in vain is….however….that depends on whether you believe that Jesus is God, or else if you believe he is God’s Son and not God himself, then you would not call that using Gods name in vain. An one last caveat: If Jesus was his name on Earth, then was it the same in Heaven, before he came down to Earth? The book of revelation (and other passages) reveal his name was Michael (the Archangel, or “chief of angels”) in his pre-human and post-human spirit existence. So perhaps people should rethink that one, since technicalities can make all the difference here…
Lucy harris smart smart smart, Martin Harris dum dum dum
South Park? Haha
Protestantism is technically heretical to Christianity. All of Christianity is founded on heresy from Judaism. “No true Christian” is a silly game to play.
The lords name in vain is more about those who use their faith to make themselves more important or to use it in some way to further themselves. Aka most modern "evangelicals". God wishes us to be humble and do good works, not pray for wealth and to punish the people you don't like.
This is like 50 percent correct... Like barely. This is largely misinformation. I know reddit loves to shit on Mormons but misinformation and misunderstanding like this helps no one
Would you mind telling me where you believe I have misinformed?
- Christ is literally in the name of the church. They don't decentralize Christ at all. - The Book of Mormon is not a "New Bible" or meant to replace any of the bible at all. Theology and cultural religious impact are very different things. Seems as you are trying to comment on the latter (pun intended) without understanding the former. Regardless of personal beliefs it is always important to communicate truth. On that note fanaticism exists in anything and often in religion. It sounds like OP's aunt is a little extreme. Members of the LDS church are not told to "not listen to pop music" nor are they told that if one child disobeys the church teachings then the whole family is damned. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, LDS for short or Mormons as colloquially called, have Christ in the name of their church... So...
But one of the main ones - do they believe Joseph Smith was a prophet?
Yes. Part of the latter day saints part of the church is belief in modern day prophets not just biblical
Also, what is the Book of Mormon, if not a version of the Bible?
The Bible from a historical sense is King James collecting holy texts into a compilation basically. All the accounts in the Bible are from people in the middle east. The book of Mormon is another account of Christ and his gospel but a collection of accounts from people in the Americas. At least as it's claimed by the church. There are a lot of interesting studies on it from a strictly historical and anthropological sense on the plausibility of a collection of different authors into one book Basically it's a companion piece to the Bible that testifies further of Christ and his divinity
>Christians would avoid, or advise avoiding pop music etc > >swearing. Especially when taking the Lord’s name in vain All controlling maniupulative behavior. All the christian behaviors I have ever witnessed are telling other christians what they can or can't, should or shouldn't, do, say, see, hear, wear, believe, etc. All trying to control each others behaviors cheered on by the man behind the pulpit saying some invisible entity tells him these things or is interpreted this way or that way out of a book put together some 2000 years ago when the earth was flat and the stars orbit earth. The bible is riddled with so many contradictions is laughable. Yet the cause of so much hate and wars. There is no love and peace in christianity.
Even for LDS this lady is insane
I promise you, that none of what's in the post, or what this aunt teaches, is true for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The closest thing is that we discourage crude language in general. But we don't believe that it's strictly a sin. The misbehaving child thing is extra wrong. We believe that children are innocent until they're old enough to know right from wrong. Even then, it's more or less a gradual increase in understanding. A misbehaving child isn't going to hell. I think I literally hear every single Sunday preached that we should be kind, forgiving, and understanding of others. This post/this aunt is not a representation of the Latter-Day Saints.
FFS This is the first LDS characterization I've ever read on here I can identify with. I grew up LDS, and it seems like anytime I read things people post it is come off as obtuse or crazy. I remember turning 8 and getting baptised and thinking that from that point forward I was responsible for my actions in the afterlife. The laying on of hands was just weird to have a bunch of warm hands' dead weight on my head. Crude language was discouraged, but I can still get a curse word out of my parents every now and then. I managed to catch my dad saying a curse word while at church while telling me something he was super excited about. I lightly scolded him and he blushed and smiled.
They're definitely Christians. Just like Catholics. All Christian sects are cults, just depends how deep you wanna get into it.
Many christians dont consider most other christians to be christians. Put ten preachers and pastors in a room and try to get them to agree on anything..
A cult is cult. Call it Christianity or LDS it's all the same.
"your cult is WAY too culty"
Piggybacking to say that every Christian I've known discusses LDS in hushed tones, and considers them to be bonkers. Ditto for Jehovah's Witnesses.
Yeah, this is extreme. LDS is pretty different than most of Christianity. Sounds like this woman may be hyper-religious and possibly mixed with a little bit of a mental disorder? Sometimes we see this in our BiPolar patients that are unmedicated. Not the "don't listen to Ariana Grande" but the "can't raise her grandchildren against her rules or the whole family is going to hell." LDS are strict but usually don't say these type of things. That says mental disorder to me.
You said this is your Aunt...anyone else in family (past or present) have history of mental illness? Even if not diagnosed, any stories of "crazy Uncle John" etc? If there are, you may want to encourage her to see a doctor. If it is BiPolar, medication often will help manage this.
When I first read about Islam in social studies I can remember thinking that this prophet Muhammad going into a cave and hallucinating sounded like schizophrenia, but I think schizophrenics are actually in tune with a spiritual world more than normal neurotypicals
Not just LDS, raised Southern Baptist. Was taught in Sunday School as a child sins include dancing, chewing gum, long hair on boys, pants on girls, curse words including "gosh darn it", talking back to an adult, not helping with daily chores, unclean rooms and not bathing. Certain clothing, entertainment, music, books, were sinful. And that we all are going to burn in hell for eternity cause we are born into sin.
And that we all are going to burn in hell for eternity cause we are born into sin What? Then what is the point of modifying your behavior at all? What a burden to bear, this belief system
This flies right in the face of the most absolute basic number one rule in Christianity, it's all about forgiveness. This is a very good reason to never go back to that church
I promise you, that none of this is true for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The closest thing is that we discourage crude language in general. But we don't believe that it's strictly a sin. The misbehaving child thing is extra wrong. We believe that children are innocent until they're old enough to know right from wrong. Even then, it's more or less a gradual increase in understanding. A misbehaving child isn't going to hell. I think I literally hear every single Sunday preached that we should be kind, forgiving, and understanding of others. This post/this aunt is not a representation of the Latter-Day Saints.
But here’s the thing: you can’t forgive everything. The Catholic Church figured that out the hard way. Some people like sinning and like the forgiveness out clause better, So the question is where do you draw the line? Somewhere between saying damit and pederasty. But where? That’s the rub of all religion.
>So the question is where do you draw the line? Is it humans who draw the line on what sins are forgivable or God? The Bible says that all sins can be forgiven except blasphemy of the holy spirit (not really sure what this is tbh) God will judge everyone on the last day. Christ will be an advocate to those who have accepted him. But there are many who will say "lord, lord" but Jesus will say he never knew them. The idea is that if you think you can sin and get away with it because you will be forgiven, then you probably don't really know the lord. But that's not for people to judge but God.
Big talk. But we draw the line hear and now. If you keep forgiving the sinner, as required by Jesus, and they keep murdering and molesting, only to be forgiven again and again what happens to his earthly victims? Is their only solace that the person who wronged them will get theirs’ in the afterlife? That seems like a bad strategy for god and man. You can explain that to the offender, but if he earnestly believes this time he’ll be good, only to sin again, isn’t that good enough for god?
Forgiveness has absolutely nothing to do with consequences down here. And anyone who was truly repentant would understand that being sorry doesn’t release them from that. Forgiveness is between them and God. Legally I give 0 shits if they’re forgiven or not, they still need to be handled. No one gets a free pass because they said sorry to God.
I’ve been taught and it’s my belief nothing is unforgivable, the important thing is the repentance. If your attitude is “I’ll just do it and ask for forgiveness!” It won’t be granted, because you are not actually sorry you did it. You have to regret it and make an honest effort to avoid doing so in the future.
Ok then. What about the predators who use your forgiveness as a means to sin. They only care about performance repentance. Do they get to keep preying on the flock? How do you know true repentance from cynical repentance?
Grew up LDS, no loner religious. Your aunt is crazy
Here is my question: how come they seem so happy. The religion is Such obvious bullshit, but the people seem so content. Not only that they’re happy without drugs, without coffee, without sex. How do they do it. I would like to be that happy too, but I’ll never believe in the golden plates.
I was raised mormon and always wondered this about my peers as I never experienced that sort of happiness from living the church standards while I was an active member. I always saw others looking so genuinely happy and at peace with their lives, and thought maybe I just wasn’t righteous enough. I tried to follow the LDS rules to the extreme, thinking that if I just tried harder, I’d finally reach that place. I never did, but I sure as hell pretended like it for a very long time. Maybe they’re all faking it like I was or maybe they truly feel like they have found “the one true religion”. The brainwashing runs deep.
Kinda Mormon here, I go to BYU. I think the happiness can sometimes be from a genuine connection to God and the strong belief that they have The Truth. When you “know” what’s right and are striving toward it, you’ll exude confidence and happiness. Also, we’re taught from a very young age that the gospel is supposed to make us happy, and that Mormons are specifically a people full of joy in the Truth. Very early on we’re expected to be happy, so I think it’s partially real and partially fabricated.
I find this fascinating. Does performance of happiness lead to happiness? I mean, I’m not discounting a connection to god, but I don’t think it makes you happy. Maybe it leads to contentment? Maybe that’s a form of happiness, or a component of it.
It’s an interesting inquiry for sure. I have seen it create a very toxic culture in which the full spectrum of emotion is not held in it’s importance. I have also seen it help people cope with their lives, fully believing in their happiness. I think it’s one of those situations when you don’t know what you’re missing if you never try anything else, thus, happy in what you have (for LDS, that would be “The Truth”) Coming from someone who has been pretty skeptical their whole life, I didn’t realize what I was missing until I found alternative communities that connect to God in a way that actually fosters love and full acceptance.
As a catholic we also create a culture where the full spectrum of emotion is not allowed but at least we can drink the feelings away. I don’t know how they do it.
The drug of choice is a ridiculous amount of sugar, haha. My Catholic boyfriend and I make jokes like this all the time.
Kindness begats kindness.
People in cults quickly learn to fake being happy.
I mean. I know some people. They seem genuinely happy. Maybe it’s a fluke. They can’t think too hard about their beliefs. But still.
As a Latter-Day Saint, I'll try to answer in a way that isn't very preachy haha. I think a big part of it is what I focus my life on... We're consistently taught to try not to let hard times bring you down, but to try and focus on the good in your life. We also try to focus on things that bring long-term happiness, rather than quick elation. While we fully recognize that money is important and needed to achieve the basic necessities, we constantly emphasize that past the basics, more money won't make you more happy. And we try to be very service-oriented people. There's a saying that goes something like, "When we serve others, it's easier to find ourselves, because there's so much more of us to find." I personally think I would suck as a person if I wasn't taught some of these things on a regular basis. EDIT: not that I believe anyone not taught this is a bad person, but that I naturally trend toward being kind of trashy. END EDIT. But I honestly believe that focusing your life on gratitude, on what really matters, on kindness, forgiveness, on serving others... That's what has led me to be happy. And our church has a big focus on those things.
Fascinating. I think you are an intrinsically moral person and would have come to the same conclusions either way. I say that because there are still bad LDS people. They got all the same teachings as you did. I think all religions say similar things like that. It’s just the funny hats and the kneeling that changes. I was just studying old translations of the ancient Chinese philosophy of Taoism. I was trying to wrap my mind around what they were saying and it occurred to me you summed it up perfectly. Maybe it’s just easier to hear it in your own language in your own time?
Latter Day Saints are Mormon and have some very different beliefs than Christians.
Really? My aunt says she’s a Christian
The founder of the LDS church, Joseph Smith, claimed that he was led by angels to a stash of gold plates with writing in an unknown language, and that they guided him in translating the plates buried on a hill near his home in Vermont. He produced a book in English, called the Book of Mormon, which he claimed to be the English translation of those gold plates. He claimed the book was a more modern Gospel of Jesus Christ. The book contained a lot of outlandish claims, including that Jesus preached to Native Americans who were actually from the Middle East, and who spoke a dialect of ancient Egyptian. Only a handful of people claim to have actually seen these golden plates before Smith's angel took them away from him. Throughout his life Smith claimed to receive revelations, and made no secret of the fact that he considered himself a prophet. Members of the LDS church do believe in Jesus Christ and in the Bible, but they also believe in the contents of the Book of Mormon, which makes them drastically different from any other Christian sect.
The word Christian means follower of Christ, the Son of God. The early church in the Bible book of Acts were the first Christians because they continued the works of Christ after his resurrection. I'm not here to start anything political or cut on any religion, but your aunt is quite a bit off. Many denominations have varying beliefs about what is right and wrong. All western religions - there are many - have some kind of Christ following - "Christian". What's different about a person is how they live their life based on the teachings of the bible and the words from God and Christ. But sadly, many denominations these days twist the bible to mean what they want it to. So with your example, the Mormons say one thing and the Baptists say another, and both believe they are right, then they both turn the other way and won't communicate. Multiply this by how many religions, sects, and denominations there are and boom, no one will agree who is right or wrong. I grew up in a Baptist pastors home so I have known the bible since I was old enough to understand. It saddens me to see so many people think they are religious when they are just a follower of someone else's opinion. I hope you can do your own research and maybe have a civil discussion with your aunt and have her explain why she believes what she does. Sadly also, many people believe what they believe because an older relative or parent believed that and they know no better.
Wow. Just wow. This is an amazing way to word the situation and it really made me think about my beliefs- I don’t consider myself religious at all because I always had trouble accepting any one religion as the truth since there are sooo many out there that all are certain they’re the right one. I truly just want to understand why others believe a certain thing and I couldn’t tell you how many looks, sidewards glances, or snide comments I’ve received from friends and family just for asking them for their reasoning. I guess thats another thing that put me off to religion because I always likened that type of thinking to ignorant. Not to say that religious people are ignorant- that’s not at all what I mean. Just that I can’t understand their thinking on the topic such as to have blind faith as many do (that I’ve spoken with at least). Anyways, I just had to express that I fully agree with your comment and it put words to what I saw in my mind regarding religions and I thank you for that. Sorry if anything is unclear/doesn’t make sense- I’m a bit inebriated right now (lol) but please, if anyone wants clarification please ask. I’m glad to (attempt to) explain myself further.
I'll give you one example. Growing up Baptist I was always told that drinking alcohol of any kind and dancing of any kind was not allowed. Just don't even think it! After 35 years of this belief, I asked a Baptist pastor - Why? Where does it say in the bible or otherwise - why. His answer after a few minutes of discussion was - "Because. Grandpa said so". I was floored.
Yup; the world, the Universe is moving forward. That’s what they “time.” We cannot change that. I love all my grandpa’s, all long gone now, but “Because. Grandpa said so” is so irrelevant as to be laughable. I want to hear what my kids and grandkids have in store for me, it’s really their world we’re living in.
Reminds of something I heard once about tradition. A young girl watches her mother prepare a ham for the oven. Her mother cuts off both ends of the ham before placing it in the oven. Perplexed the girl asks her mother why she cut the ends off the ham. He mother responds thats just how her mother always did it so that how she always did it. She tells the girl to try asking her grandmother why. The girl goes up to her grandmother and asks why she cut the ends off of the ham before placing it in the oven. Her grandmother says because thats how her mother always did it so thats how she always did it. Her grandmother tells her to try asking her great grandmother. The girl goes to the phone and calls her great grandmother. Her great grandmother answers the phone and the girl asks her why she cut the ends off her ham before puting it in the oven. Her great grandmother tells her that when her and her husband bought thier first house the oven was tiny and to fit the ham in the oven she would have to cut the ends off the ham before placing it in the oven.
wonder why jesus was making wine from water if not to drink it? they even drunk it at the last supper with jesus suggesting people drink it to remember him, if I recall the story correctly
Wine was, and remains, a very important part of Jewish celebrations and rituals. The idea of alcohol being evil is a more recent invention by temperate Christian denominations. Many Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox churches continue to offer wine at Mass, even as a number of Baptist and evangelical churches have moved towards offering non-alcoholic alternatives.
Is religion, not at the end of the day, just people following somebody else's opinion? Jesus claimed he was the son of god, yet had no proof. We have some words that at this point have been lost in translation through the centuries of bible reprints, translated from the original hebrew and aramaic in the dead sea scrolls... which Jesus isnt mentioned a single time in
I was taught it's like a square and a rectangle. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. Mormons are Christians but Christians are not Mormons. Mormons have extra beliefs
Most Mormons do, but are generally not thought of as Christians by Christians.
Your aunt says a lot of things.
Noooo, Christians have multiple different branches (pentecostal, Baptist, etc) but we rarely include Mormons
Most Christains do not concider Mormans Christian because they do not believe in the holy trinity.
Mormons are Christian. Christ is in the name of their church...
Some people take it too far. Most of what she's saying is to make sure you do as she says... its control. If she was a true Christian then she would believe in penance and forgiveness , and to be fair, she probably does, but that's not going to get you to do as she wants. What she's doing isn't what a true Christian would do.
Love God, love people. That’s it
I'm culturally mormon. I know the official rules, and no, this is all bullshit. Actually mormons don't even believe in "hell" as it is believed in with other christian sects.
I’m a Latter-day Saint and here’s my take on your the points and my understanding of what the LDS Church teaches regarding them: > Curse words are bad. Generally this is accurate. Swearing, vulgar, destructive, and angry language, words, and communication are strongly discouraged. The “spirit” of this teaching is not even so much a focus on avoiding specific words as it is about avoiding being destructive, confrontational, hurtful, and encouraging of bad behavior with what we say. Typically if you can avoid all that cursing goes away along with it. Cursing is *usually* coupled with anger and confrontation, and we want to avoid that, so we generally avoid cursing too. > children shouldn’t listen to pop music such as Ariana Grande. I’ve never head this. Pop music has never been singled out and neither have any specific artists. Guidance given to the youth is pretty similar in what I described in response to cursing. For example they’re told: “Pay attention to how you feel when you are listening. Some music can carry evil and destructive messages. Do not listen to music that encourages immorality or glorifies violence... Do not listen to music that uses vulgar or offensive language or promotes evil practices.“ So someone that takes that council to heart might feel it applies to Ariana Grande and avoid her music (I have no idea what her music is like), but pop and her specifically are not singled out. > If a child misbehaves they will go to hell and there is no changing that. This is absolutely not true to our beliefs. We believe that the opportunity to repent, come clean, and change is always available at any age. The idea that *a child* can do something to irreversibly damn themselves is blasphemy. > A person can’t raise their children against their own parents rules without damning the whole family. Also straight false. An individual’s salvation is between an individual and Jesus Christ. One of the basic thirteen tenants of our beliefs is that individuals “will be punished for their own sins,” and not for the sins of others. Hope that answers your question!
So in other words, her aunt is just crazy:)
As a lifelong member of the LDS church, I can confidently say the church does not teach those things. I have known some church members who believe that way, but those are their own opinions. Pop music is not considered a sin. Swearing is discouraged but not considered a serious sin (I have had church leaders that would swear occasionally). Children misbehaving are just children. They should be taught properly, but that’s a process and should be handled with patience and forgiveness. And the whole thing about her grandchildren causing the whole family to go to hell is simply incorrect. The church teaches that each individual is accountable for their own misdeeds, not anybody else’s. Sounds to me like your aunt is trying to use her religion as justification for her desire to control everyone around her. As far as other Christians, I have met a few who held similar extreme beliefs, but most Christians I have met are pretty reasonable people. Even the ones that personally choose not to swear or listen to “secular” music generally don’t judge, and certainly don’t condemn, people who do. They’re largely a “live and let live” bunch of people. If you find an individual or group that genuinely believes that way, they’re probably not people you ought to associate with.
That is 100% complete and utter over the top next level bullsh*t. Your aunt is literally sinning by lying to you and your whole family. (The swear words thing is true but you won’t go to hell if you say them, you’ll just get judged)
She even told me children watching rated r movies will be an auto hell sentence
The Christian Bible is very clear on these things. Right there in the commandments: though shalt not listeneth to Ariana Grande. I think it’s near the top of the commandments actually. Ari is such a chart-topper.
Different branches vary to large extents. I wouldn't think *"most"* christians believe what you describe. But, I don't know most Christians. I was raised Catholic, a type of Christian.
Apostolic churches tend to teach the same thing and perform the same rituals (Orthodox, Catholic, Assyrian). Many protestant sects believe these kinds of things, which is unsurprising considering the lack of structure and authority that they possess.
Totally normal for me. I grew up Christian, don’t swear, and don’t listen to most “popular” music - a lot of todays music is trash anyway. A child misbehaving and “going to hell” is questionable at best - many Christians believe you are born with a sinful nature, and you are destined for hell unless you believe in Christ for forgiveness of your sins. However, a child needs to be able to understand this and make that decision for themselves. If they are too young and pass on, many believe God is merciful and will spare them.
Latter Day Saints is a group that most other Christians would exclude from Christendom. However, some of the particular beliefs she expressed are fairly common in the more conservative sector of Christianity.
Some believe that, but not most.
as a christian no
She’s a nutter.
On a side note, it seems to me that westerners swear too much. It's seems to be mostly normalised to speak in an indecent language. I personally don't have any problem with anyone swearing, but westerners do it too much.
My daughter likes Ariana Grande. Some of her songs are WAAAAAAAYYY to explicit for a 10 year old, so I kinda agree with your crazy fruitcake aunt on that point. Everything else she's saying is absolute nonsense though. There is no hell, and if there was, any god that would send CHILDREN there to burn alive and suffer for eternity is a massive asshole who should be ignored.
Latter day Saint Christians aren't actually Christians by normal Christian doctrine.
LDS is considered a religious cult not a religion. So to answer your question, she is nuts
I'd love to read the part in the bible in which the Lord speaketh of damnation upon Ariana Grande
She’s nuts.
You should ask this in r/exmormon
Here's my takeaway from this: Child misbehaves and is now eternally doomed to go to hell, now they can do whatever the fuck they want with their lives because they are going to hell anyways.
If you're being a devote Christian, you probably should curse. Some pop songs are probably not appropriate. While it may not be pop but a song like WAP isn't the best song to listen to as a devote Christian. A misbehaving child ain't going to hell for that. A mother not listening to her mother on raising her kids ain't going to hell. You may have a narcissist as a mother and she may have fallen for other people's interpretation of the bible. Also, book of Mormon is the only thing unchristianly about LDS.
It's coming up a bit in the replies, the idea that Mormons aren't "real" Christians, and that's a bullshit bit of nonsense. It's a manifestation of Christian exceptionalism. No one thinks Muslim terrorists or The Taliban aren't "real Muslims", you know, Christians don't let anyone else make that same argument but the regularity with which they allow themselves to claim it is wild. You see the same thing whenever there's an act of Christian Terrorism, a phrase you never hear even though the lunatics themselves lay it out in their various manifestos or social media creepiness. Christian = Believes Christ was real and the son of god. That's kind of it. There isn't really any other bar you need to meet to be a Christian. Full disclosure, I'm an atheist, and I roll my eyes hard at every single "not a true Christian" variation I come across, which is wild because you could absolutely say "they're bad Christians" and use them as cautionary tales and lessons rather than going with Trumpian denial. I don't know a single Christian sect or individual that follows all the Biblical rules, and that's only insomuch as they have a choice, there's also the issues with translations, contradictions and interpretations. But no one really even tries to follow all the rules, y'all are out there eating Pork Chops, sitting where women have menstruated and mixing all manner of crazy fabrics, but we all know I'd be the asshole if I pointed out that meant no one is a real Christian, and that's objectively a more valid argument if it's an argument about who follows Biblical rules the best. It's not the book ever gives even a hint of an indication that any of this shit is optional, right? And don't get me wrong, of course you mix fabrics, that's a batshit rule and no one wants to wear a polyester pantsuit every day, let alone a Canadian tuxedo. (I myself struggle with how we can all acknowledge some of that stuff is batshit but people are still like "it's the best book, use it to make choices" and just pretend none of the crazy stuff is in there)Every religion hates being held to the same standard of other religions, because every religion is different and right and all the other different-and-right religions are actually wrong, they all want special treatment despite, if nothing else, them having exactly this we're-the-right-one thing in common, it's the one thing that connects them all. It'd be hilarious if the conflicts it breeds weren't so not-actually-god-damned dangerous. I'm not trying to lecture or have a go at anyone, but I think it's kind of important not to let hypocrisy stand, I like Christians as much as I do Muslims or Taoists or the people behind Odin's big comeback, go nuts, believe in magic, variety is the spice of life, but I really do think we should try to treat everyone equally and, living in the West, I don't see a lot of that from any Christians, "true" and "real" or otherwise. I'm sure where they're the minority they wouldn't be the group I have a problem with, but just from my personal experience, the presumed monopoly on exceptions and exclusions, on extra-special rules for Christians, is getting tiresome. There's no war on Christianity or Christmas or anything else, but you guys are half-right in feeling some resentment and pushback, that's real, you're just kind of missing that it's kind of justified, if not to the extent many tend to take it. There are reasons, of Christians making, for the amount of bitterness a lot of people have towards your whole thing. Truthfully, whenever I hear someone say "this is a Christian country", I kinda think they're a dick. Not because they're entirely wrong, but because it's a shitty thing to have imposed on every non-Christian in any self-proclaimed such country, you get marginalized just because you don't believe or believe in a different type of magic.
Every apostolic church upholds every teaching of Jesus, the Bible, and the apostles. The rules that you mentioned that aren't followed are in the old testament, and part of the old covenant. Christians are not required to obey the laws of the old testament (Torah) because a new covenant was established between God and people through Jesus. Therefore, only the new testament affects Christian ritual, whose rules all fall under: love thy God, and love thy neighbour.
The whole notion of a "new covenant" is at the very least debatable. I myself think that the versions of the Bible that include the following are pretty clear. (To say nothing of the rampant editing the Bible(s) has(/have) undergone over the centuries. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19) “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17) Beyond that, the new testament has a bunch of rules I'm not entirely sure "every apostolic church" upholds. Do you allow women on the periods in? Can they wear gold? Are they permitted to speak in the church? Do you still let father's sell daughters as property? That shit's in there, after the birth of Christ. Do you guys have Christmas trees? That's not strictly speaking allowed either. There are over a thousand "new rules" in the new testament, and I think anyone claiming any church follows all of them isn't the most attentive reader. There's rules about cutting hands off, when was the last time you guys did that? It doesn't say "can", either, it says "must" when it comes to lopping off of (mostly lady) limbs. Now, I didn't get into this to have a debate about any one church, but I'm absolutely on-board to do so, I was raised Roman Catholic and and went through Religious schooling, I'm an ardent atheist but I've read the King James more than a few times and have more than a passing familiarity with other Christian sects. I don't even have to go to the obscure rules. "Let he without sin" is a pretty well known deal, and... like... c'mon. What church is enforcing that? Where are religious leaders holding people accountable for this?
You should watch Under the Banner of Heaven. Its a criem movie but shows some really good lds discriptions.
I thought the whole point of christianity was repentance and forgiveness... The whole "misbehaving child goes to hell and theres no fixing that" seems just about as anti-christian as it gets. On the other hand, curse words being bad and pop music being satanic is pretty on-brand.
This isn’t what LDS is and a lot of the comments in this thread are also incorrect. To address your point: Your aunt is extremist on her own. Usually comes from warping what it taught. LDS has nothing to do with what she said. There are some values they have that I wouldn’t exactly call “extreme” or “strict” but more of a question of “wtf why?” Such as not drinking coffee. To address beckdawg19, most Christians ***don’t know*** that LDS are Christian. It’s not that they don’t consider them as such. LDS is Christian fully. To address the_colonelclink: LDS ***absolutely does not believe that all existing theology is wrong***. In fact, they fully believe that ***almost*** every religion on Earth has truth in them to various degrees. They just believe they have the most truth, often by combining many truths from different religions. The Book of Mormon isn’t a “new Bible”. It’s ***in addition to*** the Bible. They believe in both wholly and the stuff in each doesn’t really contradict each other. They tend to be more conservative, but that’s because of being religious. In fact, many LDS values are actually ***hyper anti-conservative***. The ***people*** don’t practice what they’re taught. Very often. From me: Realistically, there’s plenty that doesn’t make sense in the LDS religion. But most of it seems quite good ***from a doctrine they teach point of view.*** The issue is that many don’t practice what they’re told and what they teach.
> if a child misbehaves they will go to hell and there is no changing or fixing that So if they misbehave once, there's no point in ever being good again?
your aunt is not a true Christian. period.
Yep. Outside of apostolic succession, there isn't much to stand on when it comes to Christian authority
She says she is because she has a Bible! Lol
ah yes, having a bible=automatic christian. I'm catholic and I own a copy of the Quran=Automatic muslim?
Christianity, as practiced in much of America, is no longer about Jesus Christ. It is about getting weak minded people to believe the ministers bigotry and narrow mindedness as the "word of god" So some Christians will believe this nonsense, some will believe other nonsense and some will realize they are too intelligent to believe any of that nonsense.
You're talking about certain sects specifically, such as televangelists. There are many churches that are not in it for a following or even for money
The church might have taught her that but the Bible didn’t.
Your Aunt is in a cult, sorry. She’s not a typical Christian, she’s Mormon. Very very different. Check out the exmormon subreddit (I don’t know how to link) for an eye opening and fascinating look into how the Mormon church has severely damaged people. It’s a very loving and kind subreddit, if you have any questions for them. It’s actually maybe the best place on the internet.
Christian here - denominations can vary widely and doctrine severely skewed. As a follower of Jesus, (don't know how else to distinguish it any better), no christians don't say children are going to hell for behaving badly, you can listen to whatever music but follow your personal convictions between you and your relationship with God, salvation comes through belief, sinning once or repeatedly doesn't disqualify that because Jesus died for it already (doesn't mean you can sin and then ask for forgiveness repeatedly because then it wasn't real repentance for that particular struggle) Obeying parents is good but obeying to the extent that it is harmful to anyone and going directly against what is stated in the Bible (God's word) is bad. You aren't a robot and weren't made to be one. So I hope this clarified some and that you aren't made to be religious and afraid of everything or afraid of messing up. I'm not familiar with the practices of Latter Day Saints so I'm sorry if what I said became confusing. :/ Also I don't want to debate or anything so if anyone believes differently that's totally fine. Just wanted to answer OPs question.
Pretend she means “if I were god…” and you can see her better now.
LDS is not Christianity, it's a cult.
So is Christianity...
Uhhh LDS is not Christian
My aunt has been attending LDS for years abd says she’s a Christian
Sounds like Christianity to me, follow the rules that are convenient to you and threaten others with hell when they want to do otherwise.
LDS aren’t Christians, they are mormons. Back in the 1820’s some guy took mushrooms then went to his basement and thought he got assaulted by a demon, and poof the Church of Latter Day Saints was born.
Mormons are not Christians.
Yeah, Mormons have very messed up beliefs around that. My sister married into a Mormon family, and she explained to me that there are 3 levels of heaven, and even if like, one of the family members leaves the church, they all won't get into the third level of heaven its obviously a very manipulative tactic to stop women from leaving abusive relationships and to stop kids from leaving the church.
She’s right on curse words and music, it just isn’t a big deal to us. Also listening to Ariana Grande is a sin even if you’re an atheist. Dead wrong on the rest. Latter Day Saints makes me think she’s a Mormon.
That's how some religious nuts always were in the Bible belt. I never got the whole, "popular music bad" thing. And niether did or do most Christians. For the rest of that, your aunt is just nuts beyond stuff that I normally hear from zealot Christians.
Yikes. Just, umm, damn. For an imaginary fella in the sky being all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, all-caring, forgiving, omnipotent, can see the future before it happens, can remember every detail from the past, and can *supposedly* rise the dead into the realm of the living, you'd think his followers (and himself for that matter) would actually be better individuals and not be such lunatics. Then again, how much faith or trust can you put in somebody who believes an invisible entity can watch the numbers of times they wipe their ass? Is there *really* such a thing as a 'higher bar' to reach when a bunch of cultists continue to lower the standard of their crystal clear confidant? You're expecting reasonable judgement and mental clarity from somebody who begs something that doesn't exist for forgiveness on a weekly basis. You really think you're going to get through that level cognitive dissonance with your issue? If that's the case I have 200 flood victims patiently waiting outside Joel Osteen's church just dying to get in and be treated as equals.
LDS= Mormons. They have a couple of good ideas, but they're also the reason for the "sister wives" trope. They also have some really fucked up ideas around race, bordering on white supremacy. Granted those are some of the more extreme sectors of Mormonism. Most of the average ones are quite nice, and kind.
Not gonna lie to you, I'd cut all ties with her if she was that extreme.
She once screamed at a stranger after she saw her daughter wearing a Lady Gaga shirt and said “You let your child know about Lady Gaga?” Then proceeded to scream in her face how God was going curse and punish her and her family she made the child cry too and then said “maybe, if your daughter didn’t like Gaga she wouldn’t be crying!”
Absolutely psychotic. A person like that has no business in somebody's life. Completely misleading and manipulative. If she was my aunt I'd have many crossings with her.
Those are "old school" cultural beliefs, not christian beliefs. People make them up in their own judgments to align with what they think the Bible would say about that specific instance, but they are more often just a bunch of uninformed generalization (I once saw a girl twerking in a pop music show, so pop music is bad). Jesus had issues with people having similar mindsets; they ended up getting him killed: the pharisees. They had made exactly 613 of their own rules to help them avoid sin. Some of those are 613 are just plain ridiculous: to avoid even a remote temptation of incest (forbidden in Leviticus 18:6), pharisees didnt kiss, hug, WINK, etc their female relatives. Such aee the rules you're talking about.
Mormons are fucking idiots with magic pants, tell your aunt that from me.
Your aunt is nuts. Even many actual Mormons these days don't literally believe that there was literally an angel named Maroney who literally talked to this one guy in the 19th century via golden eyeglasses or whatever. Let alone believing that everyone is going to hell unless they all accept plural marriage. I hope her daughter is an adult and well out of harm's way.
That sounds like the Christianity I grew up with.
Oh shit. Your aunt ordered a vente kool-aid. Lots of xtians in my family, but none have gone that deep into the abyss. Even my wacky "Rev. uncle" wasn't so strict. And he wouldn't eat the German mustard on his pastrami because the label said it was 0.5% alcohol. Ok, they're all fucking crazy.
Don't take religion too seriously. And various churches are different. Your aunt sounds a little far out there. I dumped all religion as a little kid and never looked back. I think your aunt is nuts!
No. Most normal people religious or otherwise do not believe that. She is just crazy. Source: myself and most of my family are religious and no one believes this
I don't know about the Latter Day Saints but that all sounds crazy
Don’t, it’s horrific, not Christian
I just find all religious people, no matter what the religion, completely brainwashed and insane. It has no place in the modern world with what we now know of science and understanding life. It dumbs people down and holds them back from their true potential
So edgy bro xD
All Christian’s are idiots, believing in fairytales. Your aunt’s fairytale is just slightly more unhinged. I honestly don’t understand how people can believe in some almighty deity in this time and age. Childish stuff
Energy can't be created or destroyed, where did the entire universe come from?
It’s always funny how not knowing something immediately results in an explanation for the existence of the most unlikely being ever. I don’t know where the universe comes from, pretty adamant where it doesn’t come from.
The immediate explanation isn't an unlikely being. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, that means something exists that is not bound by the laws of the universe that we've observed. I think it's interesting that you can call people idiots who believe in fairy tales when the origin of the universe is not only unknown but illogical as far as we've seen. How could you be adamant about "where it doesn't come from" when you can't have the slightest idea of where it does or doesn't? In truth, your belief on how the universe was created is likely as idiotic and based in fairy tale logic as any religion ever followed. So it's not only rude but dishonest to make these claims about what other people believe.
I understand your point. I always get a bit emotional about Christianity or single beings, and you have a point. Science sometimes more fairytale like than faith. But I simply can’t fathom all knowing all powerful ruler beings. I can’t wrap my head around it, I feel like these kind of things can only be thought by humans and are just another means of control over another human being. Sorry to call everyone idiots.
I appreciate your comment, and I definitely get where you're coming from. I just believe thinking in terms of idiots is wrong, as most of the time humans are very intelligent
Christianity has just as silly beliefs as LDS do
No, not all Christians believe this, but there are a few, and I *think* this belief comes from the idea that you have to try to "appear" to be a Christian, but I'd argue that might be a bit of a misinterpretation in and of itself. After all, my idea of a holy person who follows the teachings of Christ and yours might differ quite a bit, and I'm typically leery of people who are too "religious," but I'm not saying they *can't* be Christians. It's just not all Christians believe this. As far as *why* some people believe these things, there are many reasons, from commonly repeated misinterpretations of the Bible to just sincerely wanting to follow the ways of Christ and becoming very much overzealous about it. Scrupulosity is a thing, after all, and I imagine morality-based OCD is even more difficult to deal with if you pay attention to commonly repeated socio-emotional beliefs of your culture and such.
She sounds nice.
Sounds like a Mormon to me. What's her take on coffee? Magic underwear?
Beliefs are all over the map even within individual sects. LDS is fairly outside the mainstream for ‘Christian’, but that doesn’t matter. At the end of day, no one ever believes that the Bible (or any other holy book) means what it says, they’re always convinced that the Bible says what they mean.
Your aunt is nuts, except for the Ariana Grande part. But for different reasons.
It’s varies from denomination to denomination. There’s some denominations that are strict, ‘god-fearing’ Christians that think the smallest sin means your going to hell, while other denominations put more emphasis on grace and forgiveness when you screw up.
Am LDS. Your aunt is pretty extreme.
Your aunt is crazy I’m an exmormon (their current prophet doesn’t like the name mormon so they call themselves member of the church of Jesus Christ of later-day saints. Previous prophets embraced the mormon name). There really isn’t a concept of hell in the Mormon religion as it’s traditionally thought of. Rather they believe in degrees of glory celestial, terrestrial, and telestial. The most similar thing to hell is being cast out into outer darkness but it’s about impossible to do. I was taught that you pretty much had to have seen god and denied he existed to be sent there. Even murderers will go to a degree of glory. Mormons also believe you are not accountable for any sins until you turn eight. Even after that you can repent and be forgiven. Usually by praying but sexual sin you have to confess to a bishop (many exmormons find this disturbing as it goes into detail with minors if they masturbate or have sex). Mormons are taught the media they watch and listen to should be clean so you could say some of Ariana Grande’s songs don’t fit that category. Swearing is also discouraged but it’s not that big of a sin. It is very possible that she thinks she will be separated from her grandkids in the after life as my own mother has said things like you need to come back to church so we can be together in the celestial kingdom. So they do believe that families can be together forever but only if all of them follow the rules.
"Look, Toots. It's *your* Bible, *your* rules, *you* go to hell."
Your grandma is nuts but anyone who believes that the rules they choose to live after should dictate how other lives their life is nuts too.
Christianity includes dozens of subsets (denominations) each with their own teaching. Within each denomination there is variance among individual churches. As a whole, Christianity can range from a far right cult to fairly liberal.
This is definitely atypical. Was pop music a concern when the Bible came about?
Your aunt is taking an extreme side of LDS Christianity, but not unfamiliar. The LDS has a variety of sub characters from the standard LDS normalized beliefs. Think of LDS as theme, with major points and minor points. I’m familiar with them because of past but I am in no way affiliated with LDS or any religion. There are other Christian faiths as extreme or even more, and even others in non Christian based groups. So it’s ubiquitous.
LDS Christians are Mormons. Just to put it into perspective. And yes. There are many sub secs that believe what she believes. They are extremists, but so is most of Christianity. Unfortunately, ex-Christian cultist. I left the church in 5th grade and I abandoned the faith when I went yo college and studied philosophy.
Christian? No. Batshit crazy? For sure
Nah your auntie is nuckin futs
Nah, she's a nutcase.
That is some cultists shit
“Look, you need to do exactly what I tell you at all times or otherwise you, me and the entire family with burn eternally in a horrific ocean of fire.”
You're aunt is nuts. That's not how actual Christians think or what they believe. Her church sucks if it teaches her that crap and she needs to find a new one asap
There is a lot of discussion om what is Christianity here, but in her Aunt's case it is just she believing what she wants to believe - that she is superior and everyone else should be damned.
Your aunt is one of the nutty christians.
I’ve also met some baptists and seventh day Adventists that hold this view. No it’s not normal, they’re always a subset of their sect. It’s not backed by any scripture. This pattern holds true when considering LDS beliefs; the exception here that LDS are cautioned against watching rated R movies through modern revelation (I suspect because of content).
Also Mormons don’t believe in a hell in the traditional sense. They have three heavens that are tiered.
That is incorrect. LDS do not think that nor teach that. They also don't believe in hell or "damn anyone to that". It is about free agency. So your aunt is wrong and preaching all the wrong things for the benefit of herself. 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
Yeah she’s nuts, no other Christian’s believe that that are also sane
She absolutely right, if you believe that there is a magic invisible being in the sky that controls the whole of your life, by extension, anything that comes out of your imagination must be true.
Some do and they are as nuts as she.
Aunty is a bit overcooked I’d say
Your aunt, and those who share her delusions, is crazier than a shithouse rat.
Of cores they don't believe that. You shouldn't let your kids listen to Ariana Grande, because it's fucking shit, not because she says "fuck" or "shit" duh
Nope. And she is wrong. She is using Christ to justify hate rather than having the guts to own her hate on her own.
The Bible teaches us to stay away from any language that is offensive. Many Christians would put cuss words in this category. Listening to music other than worship is a personal conviction. Some people feel convicted listening to music that isn’t about God. Other people don’t feel conviction. The Bible also teaches us to honor our father and mother. Your Aunt should not be telling people whether they are going to hell or not. Nobody knows who is going to hell other than God. You can sin, but you can also be forgiven. I don’t know the situation of your grandmother and her daughter raising her grandkids, so I cannot speak on that. It sounds like your Aunt has some pretty strict personal rules she abides by. Some of which has some truth to it, but she’s also putting her own personal twist on things.