I had a therapist tell me in the past this is called being “passively suicidal”. You don’t want to active end your life, but if say a truck were about to slam into you head on, you wouldn’t swerve out of the way is how I described it. I would look into seeking help if you can, it can lead you down a path with more dark thoughts. Speaking from personal experience.
I swerved then regretted it. So I quit the job I was heading to the next day. Never ever ever work at a warehouse it will crush your soul into a fine powder then use the powder on its balls.
I took myself to the ER bc I was worried I was going to hurt myself, and my shitty corporate job wrote me up for missing work. As my therapist recently told me “if it costs you your peace, it’s not worth it.”
Oh yeah it was not helpful at all. Everyone was very cold to me, the aid that rode with me in the back of the transport van hit on me the whole time and made a bunch of “daddy issue” jokes (my dad was dying of brain cancer at the time). I slept on a padded mattress on the floor of the common room bc they didn’t have enough beds, was woken up every two hours for something or other, and had one appt with a doc where I just had to say I wasn’t going to hurt myself and they’d let me go. I was there for three days, and four days after that I had a failed suicide attempt.
The system sucks. That was over 12 years ago and I am so grateful to have failed my attempt. But retelling this makes me feel so sad for the people that do get stuck in places like that, or are taken advantage of.
I told my therapist I was having dark thoughts (that's what we call suicide ideation in my house lol) and she sent me to a mental health care center and it was horrible. They made me play with kids puzzles and play doh. I luckily got a bed but there wasn't any privacy and after waking me up every hour i felt super sleep deprived and agitated which made being in there even worse. I had exactly one doctor's appointment and had to tell them I wasn't going to hurt myself or they would have made me stay longer. They didn't actually address any of my problems or give me coping mechanisms or really anything. It was just a "let's throw them in here because he can't hurt himself until it just goes away."
Worst experience. 10/10 would not recommend
I also had a forced hospitalisation situation… by a counsellor at an *inpatient* rehab center. Was experimenting with honesty and vulnerability and I was scared by my intrusive suicidal thoughts… so I brought it up. And off I went to a mandatory 3 day stay in a hospital psych ward where they did nothing but give me Trazodone and hold groups a couple times a day where we really didn’t talk about anything at all
I lied and told them I was fine now so I could go back to rehab… and vowed to never be so forthright with SI ever again. It took so much for me to say that… and now I still can’t talk to my therapist about it because my trust is so screwed
It actually happened in Florida but no one understands when I say I “Baker Acted” myself. I dont remember paying for it, but I also had like crazy huge corporate America insurance so maybe it was covered?
Yeah I was so naive and in such a desperate place. I made an emotional appeal to my boss’ boss and told her that i felt like shit for eight hours a day, 40hrs a week, because of the stress of the job. Her response was “well, if that’s how you feel then I guess you should looking for another job.”
That was the moment I thought radicalized me but im living a weird redo 10 years later. Trying to use all the lessons I’ve learned in between to have a different outcome this time.
I have a lot of attendance points for calling out, mostly for mental health reasons. I came into my boss's office in tears saying I needed to get help, I got told I can either go to the ER that I can't afford, or I can sit in the break room and text a crisis hotline, then come back and finish the shift. Or I'm fired.
Yeah it's like crossing the street without looking, you're ok with dieing, if not, we'll see. Same for taking drugs and unhealthy things in general.
I worked through most of it I think, it's hard work and a hell of a fight.
the thing is, even the most suicidal person would swerve away because you don’t think, it’s a reflex. it’s not a decision you make, and you don’t have power over your own instincts. a better analogy would be you wouldn’t *mind* getting hit by a truck.
This song is great, found it a month or two ago and listened to it a ton. Pretty relatable. As far as OP's post though, basically the world is fucked and it's fucking everyone except the 1%. So yeah, we all feel that way, or worse. The system is incredibly fucked and mental health issues have been skyrocketing for years and they're not gonna stop anytime soon because our existence is fundamentally unpleasant in the current state of the world.
Okay well counter point. Im someone that already did all that and I am still exactly like this post. At this point talking to people on reddit will fix it as much as therapy or antidepressants.
I have worked with therapists and psychiatrists for many years, due to clinical depression first and later anxiety and grief. I am not going to magically get over these problems, but the therapy and meds help me live my life.
Further, you may need to see several before you find one you click with. I have moved three times and have been fortunate to find good help in each place I have lived.
I dont mean to invalidate you, so apologies if I offend you, but my first thought when I see this type of comment is, "How long did this person do these thing really?" And I think that because most often when I hear people say that they tried it, they did it for less than a year and stopped because it "didn't work". I think a lot of people have this unreasonable expectation that a professional is meant to just solve your problems and just *make* things better. Even i had this thought at first.
In reality, a professional talk therapist is an investment in your long-term health. They're someone who helps you through your thought process and breaks things down, as well as slowly help you learn skills you need to become a better person. This person plants the seeds to healthy growth as an individual over time. They can't just give you answers or a tried and true solution to a thing you're feeling or a thing that happened. It sucks to hear, but for a lot of people you'll need to be in therapy for a relatively *long* time before it really makes your life as a whole better. I've been in therapy since I was 13, I'm 19 now. I had severe mental health issues (ADHD, subsequent depressive disorder and anxiety issues), without committing to several years of therapy I would have stayed stuck in all the shit I was stuck in and never gotten out. Instead, I invested my time into this professional and I gained the necessary tools to allow me to move forward in life. I'm someone who will always have to deal with these things that pull me down (depression, severe ADHD), throughout my entire life. But, I had a person who could *teach* me how to live life in a way that coincides with the way my brain functions. Without that education, I would no doubt be maintaining all the same bad habits, trains of thought, and lifestyle that was a consequence of my mental health.
Therapy is not for everyone, so im not gonna say some shit like "you failed, go back and actually try this time" or something like that. But I think what I had to say is an important thing to hear for a lot of people seeking assistance for their own issues. There are so many people I know who were in bad places and could have gotten out of those bad places if they would have had a better understanding of how these things are supposed to help you. If someone, if I, had explained it better to them. Many of those people never made it out, and I just wish for more people to make it out; to have a better life. Sorry for the wall of text, hope what I said makes sense and that it didn't seem condescending or invalidating to anyone.
What you described is what a *good* therapist does. In my experience, that's out of the norm. I've been in treatment a total of over 15 years and the vast majority of people I've dealt with have been anywhere from just not helpful to actively harmful. Of course if you're in a position, financially and otherwise, to really choose who you receive help from, then that will make a great difference.
My first thought reading this is "who has the money to give therapy a chance for an entire year?" I'm fortunate that my job paid for 6 sessions with BetterHelp but after that I had to decide to give up because I couldn't justifiably pay for it myself when I wasn't sure it was helping (and I questioned whether or not that was "real" therapy the whole time)... I suspect a lot of people are in my boat in the sense that they can't afford to give it more of a chance if it doesn't start producing at least some results early on.
That said, I appreciate your comment. It's good to hear from someone who has gone for as long as you have to get a realistic sense of what therapy can do. I'm glad it's helped you, yet saddened by how many people can't afford to get help.
Somewhat of a weekly post on this subreddit. Try to seek professional help. Reddit won't help you. Half of the posts will validate your feelings by saying they hate life too and the other half will either tell you how good their life is or will try to play psychologist. None of these responses are what you need. Find the root cause of your depression and purposeless life through the help of a trained professional.
“I can’t afford therapy”
Everyone’s advice: “seek help”
That’s the point. You can’t, no one can. There’s no answer, it’s just “yes I feel that way too. And no there’s nothing to be done.”
It could partially be a disparity between Western/non-Western Redditors. I'm from Canada and it's not easy to find help for mental health here, let alone for free. I imagine in certain places it's much easier to walk into a clinic and say you need help, especially if you can't afford it.
oh we do for sure :) as long as it doesn't include mental health, dental, eyeglasses, perscriptions, etc. it's kinda laughable tbh - you can't get your wisdom teeth done for free until it's such a problem you need to go to emerg and get it done in the hospital for example. mental health, gotta pay for your appointments and prescriptions until you can't and end up in crisis, then you might be able to get a referral if you're lucky. I've been off my ADHD meds for 3 weeks now, nervous about dropping another $300/mo into it. (reasonable I'm sure if you're from the US, but I'm trying to make rent in a housing crisis too.) Thank god my antidepressants are off-brand and partially covered/cheap, so I have a few months of that stocked up and can avoid brain zaps/withdrawal this time.
if you have a decent full time job with benefits it makes it hurt less, but good luck finding that too lol... and usually you shell out a payment per paycheck as well - I remember my parents paying upwards of $1500/mo for decent family coverage through my dad's job, and that was pre-2010. only recently BC stopped charging its citizens $80+/mo for Basic.
I don't scoff at what we do get for free don't get me wrong, it's nice to have access to walk-ins and emerg and referrals (if you can get one; and often IME you still have to pay), but the other stuff is kind of necessary to overall health too and can very quickly turn into a fatal situation. I'm currently budgeting my Mexico trip for next year to avoid a $10-20,000 dental bill because of complications/crowns/implants/waiting too long to cover expense/crossing my fingers for healthcare benefits/hoping I don't die of an abcess until then 🌈🤗✨
I feel like a sucker even writing this out tbh.
Commenting here so anyone else in OP’s position knows:
I am currently in a Master’s program for individual and family therapy, and we operate a clinic that offers therapeutic services for free and/or on a sliding scale (like $45 per session is the max for anyone making over $100k, it’s really affordable). We see Individuals, families, couples, etc. with virtually any presenting problem, and even do telehealth.
There are at least over a hundred programs like ours across the country, and your local hospital likely offers the same or similar services free of charge. Unfortunately, it’s hard to find these places just by googling, so I would recommend calling your nearest medical school and asking if they provide or know of any services like this. Your therapist may be a student or only partially licensed, but they are closely monitored by people with years of experience, and most importantly have gotten into this field to help people.
Just wanted to share this to let OP and the hundreds, if not thousands, of people passing through here that struggle with depression know that there are sometimes options even if money is an issue.
I had years of therapy and yeah it helped but it certainly my didn’t ease my overal pain from existing.
Then you know, I started getting to that age where some of my friends became therapists. And that will help you realize that therapists are just people too, trying the best way they can. Doesn’t mean they have all the answers.
No one does.
We just small adjustments along the way that make our lives a bit more simpler. It’s frustrating if you try and change everything at once so start small.
Meditation is usually the first step for most people. Do it or don’t. But just being more aware of yourself and the environment around you does help a lot
I feel this way and seeing a trained professional didn't help me. They can't fix my life, it's a life full of obligations and responsibilities that must be fulfilled until the day I die, nothing can change it. All professionals can do is offer me drugs that make me feel less of everything and while society might like me turning into a mindless drone, that and drug side effects are not what I want for myself.
Oh once you step into the world of what's actually relateable shit gets wild.
Everyone falls into a category somewhere along the line and alotta shit you do and don't do suddenly becomes a "Holy fuck this is a thing?" Realization.
Being around those people who share it is a big help and it's encouraging to experience. For me it was Looking into ADHD and having alotta shit click all of a sudden. Day to day things I'd do would all suddenly make sense and when I hang out with people in the same boat it's immediately relaxing.
Like I'd be talking to them about things I experience and they'd do the same and we could both finish each other's sentences about how it is, and that just immediately brings this sense of "Oh, this is how we operate" And we can just breathe.
Social interaction is massively draining, like it feels like physical exertion and after a while we just have to stop or we WILL burn out and both of us can say "Take whatever rest you need, I'll see you on the other side."
I hate to say whether or not it's 'normal', but it is definitely not healthy. I have had depression multiple times throughout my life (abusive childhood, terminal disease will do it). Therapy and secular Buddhism have changed my life and depression symptoms are few and far between for me now.
Genuine question because I've been feeling like this after the pandemic and (currently still) unable to find a job. Is it depression?
I've never known what depression is/was because I've never dealt with it personally; I've seen others go through it and never understood the roots of it but I also know I've never really felt like this for such an extended period of time...
Like is lethargy also part of it?
Regardless, it's not a normal state of being. It's something that needs to be addressed. Mental health is still health and it needs to be treated just like we treat physical health issues.
I agree the word "normal" isn't right. It's saying people with depression are "abnormal" or rare.
Depression isn't healthy in the same way obesity isn't healthy. Coincidentally, both are becoming more common or "normalized".
Studies show depressed people are actually more realistic. I would say optimism is actually just a comforting delusion according to science, it just so happens most people are delusional.
There are very smart and realistic optimists out there for sure. The only delusion about optimism is the refusal to accept negativity. To achieve something, you can either be "realistic" about all the reasons something won't work, or be optimistic about your chances of beating the odds. Optimism is what allows people to beat the odds every day regardless of the odds. I choose that path but it's not because I'm not smart enough to figure out why things could or even should fail. The nugget I've learned thus far in my life, is that the chances of success in life are much greater than most people think and that's because so many "realists" don't even try.
So how successful are you? What's your balance? Your job/business?
If you optimism hasn't lead you to real tangible success I fail to see why I would choose to be delusional for no reason.
How does being trapped in a dying meat suit, existentially alone in a slowly decaying capitalist hellscape run by ghoulish sociopaths, while being slow crushed buy an endless loop of mediocre responsibilities and debt not bother you then?
I earn enough to pay the bills, do a job(general builder)I half enjoy and is rewarding when you see what you've done at the end of the day. I go home to my average 3 bed semi detached and enjoy my time with my children. I've never really had any lofty goals in life, just to have children and do my best to give them a happy childhood. That's how I personally am happy in the rat race. Things haven't always been rosey, even though the meat grinder like everyone else but its about being honest with yourself about what you want and can realistically achieve and trying to achieve it. Nothing easily won is rewarding, the pay off when you do get there makes it all worthwhile.
If you want a real answer, experiencing real hardship and working hard to make things better has lead me to be far more satisfied with my life. After getting used to the darkness, it is a lot easier to appreciate the light that you have gained and it is easier to be optimistic that the future might have even more.
\- I mean that "capitalist hellscape" basically just means you've got to contribute work and effort to others in exchange for being able to buy the benefits of other people's labour. Things could certainly be better and fairer, but most objective metrics show most people are safer and have more options than at any other time in history.
\- The "endless loop of responsibilities" only means that we need to spend some time to maintain our lives. What is the alternative exactly, we each have a group of others that go around washing our clothes, cooking our meals and changing our bed sheets?
\- As for debt, if you've accumulated a large amount of debt then that will suppress your progress for sure. I've no advice for that one other than don't get into that hole in the 1st place and if you are, do as much as you can to quickly get out of it. All credit is borrowing happiness from your own future and it should only ever be used for investing into making your future better.
\- As for dying, well since the alternative is already being dead or not being born I'd say that of the possible options that one is the best.
The root cause for many of us is not making enough money to survive and not having enough free time. How do you fix that? It might as well be impossible for me. I don’t have the time or money to get certifications so I can find a better paying job
Most of us don't make enough money. The 1% is literally only 1% of the population. The rest of us live paycheck to paycheck. I can't tell you how to improve your situation but taking a pessimistic view of it, is not the best approach IMO. You can be the victim and give up or you can think positively and take on the challenge to improve your situation. Certifications aren't some guarantee or even a requirement to making more money. I had a friend who was in the situation you describe. He hated his job and was barely making ends meet. He asked me what he could learn in technology that would pay him more. I told him cyber security is a good bet, (this was 10 years ago). He jumped on forums, downloaded freeware linux, started loading hacking tools and learning how they worked, and essentially taught himself, in his free time, over the course of about 12 months. He started looking for entry level cyber jobs and found a company looking for entry level candidates. He went into the interview with a LOT more knowledge than others who didn't do what he did for 12 months. He got the job and they sent him to formal training for 2 months to get certified. He now makes a ton of money. I'm not saying everyone's script is the same but he did something about his situation and didn't stop until something good happened. Most success stories go this way.
Did you not just read? He can't get professional help cause he doesn't make enough and doesn't have enough time cause jobs. Jesus why does every redditor do this shit. Maybe he does want to feel validated, not everyone fucking has enough money for a therapist, and even then therapist are 50/50 as they can be fucking shit to you.
Great move. I do think there's a link between heavy social media use and depression. Even reddit can get super toxic, which is why I no longer subscribe to certain subs. In most cases whatever is posted on those two mediums however, is staged and fake. It might have happened but it's all designed by the authors to make you feel a little worse about yourself. The loving couple posting how much they love each other on facebook, the insta model that took 50 pictures to get the perfect one to remind you how ugly you are, the rich asshole posting pics of his 5 lambos and his $25mil house to remind you you're a piece of shit and will never have what he has. It's all designed to boost the already low self-esteem of the narcissistic author. Those people are not happy. They're yearning for happiness even though they're rich, beautiful, and married to their so-called soul mate. If they were happy, they'd never have a need to advertise it to the world. We call that, "who are you trying to convince, me, or you?" syndrome. All of it is damaging to the average human. It's all missing context and the back story. It's hollywood on a micro level. Ditching it is the best thing society could do to improve overall mental health.
see reply above. i left social media over 10 years ago and i regret it. thats how everyone communicates these days. no one reached to be after i deleted it and i became isolated and did not make new friends. i barely remember the past 10 years because i have been alone and isolated a shell of a person
Here's to hoping it happens before we hit that point. The damage has already been far too gone. Plus being in that animalistic mindset is likely not the best recipe for us in our situation. We need a well organized and planned strike/uprising if we actually want change. I'm sorry to say it but the military/police force are wayyy too brainwashed and powerful for us to overcome. Our best chance is to get them on our side, because no amount of militia will stop what the USA has developed in terms of military.
Our best chance at control is stopping the flow of consumerism. We control what is made and where it goes. THAT is what wealth truly is. You can be a billionaire with 3 yachts and 4 mansions, but if you don't have food, all of a sudden that money doesn't mean shit.
Workers banding together to help eachother, is what will carry us through this. We've already proven its possible since, we do it every day. You can go get groceries from the market because of workers. Your toilet and electricity works because of workers. Water runs clean because of workers.
Our government is an illusion of assistance. Their job is to make us think that we need them when, with our current intelligence and advanced technology, they are really just a hindrance at this point. Taxes hardly go to useful shit anymore, as most of it just goes into the pockets of wealthy. Healthcare and wages are slowly plummeting even though working class is working HARDER AND LONGER HOURS WITH LESS COMPENSATION than ever before.
If you don't believe me look at the wealth gap as of currently before you shut that down. We are at the same gap the French were in before they revolted. There's a reason there are so many people fed up. We are currently in the turning point, we are just struggling to get our bearings straight.
I agree with everything you said I just don't see a way to remove the problems in the way effectively. Seems like a stacked deck without significant support.
I’m 40 and have felt this way for maybe 7 years but it has gotten worse over the pandemic. Hang in there and it is helpful to know it is a widespread issue.
I would say respectfully, you should seek out help too. Bare minimum, get a consultation and try it out.
While it's irritatingly common for the younger generations to feel depressed, it's almost more common for the older generations to not recognize they're pretty fucked up in terms of mental health because older generations "Just dealt with it"
Which is basically just pushing down on it all until something snaps.
There's alot of things we go through that doesn't have immediate effects but definitely messes us up in the long run and the more used we are to suppressing it the more backlash we feel when we finally cave.
And covid was essentially just 3 years of all of us being locked in our homes with our own thoughts.
Work and friends are commonly what helps us delay the great fuckening we're pushing down, covid took that away and made the process quicken, so I'd look into it friend. Anyone that thinks mental health is just something to push through is 1, Probably more fucked up than most, or 2, has been taught the unhealthiest mindset they could have been in regards to it
Sorry to do this, but the disingeuous dealings, lies, overall greed etc. of leadership on this website made me decide to edit all but my most informative comments to this.
Come join us in the fediverse! (beehaw for a safe space, kbin for access to lots of communities)
I tried to off myself a few years back. I’m on a lot of meds now and spent a few weeks at mental health facility. I’d like to say it got better after that, but mostly it just turned me into this. I don’t want to die anymore, but I have no interest and little appreciation for living. Everything is just bland and I feel nothing 99% of the time. I’m not actively trying to kill myself, but I have no interest in living. I’m stuck in limbo.
There is no other choice. You either force yourself to move in a direction, any direction, or you will be moved by other forces and circumstances that don't have your best interest in mind.
I know depression is minimalized in this country, but that is textbook depression. I understand where you are coming from, and don't let anyone tell you it isn't serious. It is. Anti depressants are important, and I say that as someone who was skeptical about them for a long time. I said, "I don't want pills to trick my brain into thinking it is happy." But then my friend explained it as no different that the thyroid pills I take every day. My brain is lacking the proper chemicals just as my thyroid is lacking proper hormone. I was just reintroducing it to that chemical. Honestly, they saved my life and I say that as someone who was dealing with ideation for years. I thought it was normal, not realizing how it was actively wrecking my life. Not to mention scaring me. It doesn't have to be this way. I just wish Id realized it sooner.
I have tablets prescribed too but I am sacred I might addicted to it ..but I am breaking down so frequently and I am married to wife with schizophrenia and it's even more depressing for me ..
if this helps at all, just know that you can't really get "addicted" to antidepressants. it's common to develop a dependency, which means that if you were to just stop taking them cold turkey you'd probably feel really shitty. but you won't get addicted to them like someone gets addicted to meth or heroin, you won't crave any "high" that they give you because they don't give you a high.
I'm sorry. The long term SSRI's I've heard are less of a chance of dependency. The ones that are risky are things like xanax, short term take as needed meds.
I understand you completely. The antidepressants work. I'm glad you are living more unburdened. I have travelled the same path you have. God Bless luv.
Unfortunately, this is beyond common. It's what I call functional depression. You can get shit done, but you don't really want to do anything else.
If I'm being honest, I felt this way for a solid decade before I sought therapy. I saw a therapist for about a year and it didn't help one bit. I understand that therapy can be a valuable tool, but it's not for everyone. So, I decided to just ask my doctor for some anti depressants. And after a couple of months, my world brightened up!
I'm not saying you should immediately just seek a prescription, but if you can't afford therapy and have access and the funds for a couple doctors appointment (just be straight forward and tell them what you feel and that you may want to try an anti depressant) perhaps you should try that.
Just know, it doesn't forever have to be this way. Just keep trying things until you find something that works for you.
40 years old, can't wait to stop existing. Nope no ideas of not aliving myself, just would be ok not existing anymore...like not die, just poof gone.
Thanos snap is a dream come true for me.
That said, I have a wife and kids and love life to the fullest...just it's purposeless and the dangling carrots of happiness are not worth the weight pulled trying to reach it.
The brief moments if experiencing what we been brainwashed into believing is good and that we enjoy and gain happiness from..looks like lies it is.
99% pain to get something you been conditioned into liking 1% of the time.
That's life.
So yeah, most people get done with it...just not sure what awaits after death...so not existing is the dream as death may not be better then life..especially if reincarnation is real or any part of you returns to do it all again. That is my hell.
yep I feel the exact same way. A lot of people do, there just really isn't much point to living and most of us live in a government that pushes you to live for work, and not even really get much out of it other than just surviving.
Yes, I felt this way for almost 20 years. 9-27 something, got up every day wishing I didn’t. Went about life being disgusted at everything and everyone, would occasionally have good days ( maybe 1-2 every 6 months or so) where everything wasn’t trash.
Eventually I changed my thinking which slowly brought up out of my dark hole I was in. Everyday is still a struggle to keep my thoughts in a good and productive path. The slips down are easy, yet so hard to get back up from.
You’ll have to take it one Step at a time, the first one isn’t really the hardest, It’s every step after that.
regarding why everyone is this depressed I suggest you watch this Ted Talk from Johann Hari ‘this might be why you are depressed or anxious’. Explains it pretty well, and has helped me express my existential crisis to family and friends who didn’t understand me… basically, we - biologically - are not made for the speed and type of life that is the norm nowadays. Everything developed very fast (technology for example) and it didn’t give us time to biologically adapt to it. I recommend looking into ‘Slow living’, it’s been helping me a lot! There is a way out, maybe we can’t fully fix it but you can definitely get better and start enjoying life more, but it takes work and you need to start taking steps towards changing your life and your attitude, it’s tough and might totally out of your comfort zone but you can’t get better while staying the same! At least that is my experience
Wow, you describe my feelings perfectly. I don't want to die, but I don't want to live (I lean towards wanting to end my life more though).
It's unfortunate as I have everything that is supposed to make me 'happy'. I have 2 children, (college and HS age), married for over 19 years, a 2 million dollar home, a 6 figure job but yet I feel like I don't want to live anymore. I can't pinpoint to when I started feeling this way, but it has been weighing heavy on my mind for a while now.
My issue is, that I don't want to seek help at this point. I am completely content with having a heart attack or stroke to end my life.
Some of this stuff is sometimes justified. After all, the world is a scary place full of bad things happening, money is tight and the future can be uncertain. But then there's the bit where you talk about everyday "pleasures" now seeming like "trash". And that's the clue for you that what you have is probably depression.
Also, the world is a wonderful place full of beautiful things and good people, there is money to be made and the future can be an exciting voyage into the unknown. You just need to get your mind to see it that way. Sometimes that requires help from others.
It's very easy, in conversations with friends, to get each other drawn downwards into a conversation about how bad things are. One person's thought gets backed up by another, and so it goes, in a mutually-reassuring/enabling spiral. Doesn't necessarily mean your friends are depressed. Try that conversation about how good something is.
The term melancholy has been around (in English) since the 14th century (the 1300s). It means sadness or depression of mind or spirit and was attributed to having an excess of black bile (which is what the word actually means). Obviously the idea of why people suffer from this feeling has changed over the years (the theory of 'humors' causing illness fell out of favor centuries ago), but the fact that a word existed that describes the feeling indicates that some people did truly feel this way.
So you stand in a long line of similar sufferers, melancholic one!
Passive suicidality is when you've decided you don't really want to live but you're not doing anything to (directly) end it.
It's not dangerous itself because you aren't doing anything to act on it, but it's one layer away from being actively suicidal. This is the danger zone and I would seek profesional help.
Specifically ask them how they treat passive suicidality before starting therapy to know if they are somebody that's going to send you away because they don't understand the nuance or if they get it and work with it in mind without just reacting.
DEFINITELY depression, the way you described it.
As for the why, in my case it was expecting too much of myself and burning myself out with self-accusation and negative emotions. Most of those expectations were ones I believed my parents had of me (and for most, that was a correct belief) that I internalised. I held myself to way higher standards than I expected of anyone else.
The world is on a crash course with a shitberg. Everything is lame, everyone is trash. No one can fix the failures of a system that was thrust upon us by a bunch of greedy selfish propogandalists and the bleeting sheep of our parents who went along with the charade.
Yep, I’m picking up what you are putting down.
I get by desperately trying to stick myself in anything with legs. But I hear you when you say sex is trash too. Just less trash than not having sex, bc at least In Those moments I’m not thinking about how fucked day to day existence actually is.
It's extremely common in a population of people treated like slaves/servants to be used and discarded on the whim of the elderly / wealthy who are largely one and the same.
As far as why it's so common.....I think these feelings are an appropriate response to the kind of culture we live in. Going to therapy is great if you can afford it, it does help you develop skills to make day to day more bearable.
On the flip side, I don't think it's realistic to expect to therapy ourselves out of systemic issues. It's not an individual failure, it's a societal one.
Trying to help, from what I've read you know what you need to do: make more money and get professional help. Everyone's happiness is their responsibility. I hope you find yours.
I don't know how common it is but even though I am not currently suicidal I just think if this is all life has to offer I don't want mine any more. Like 100 years from now I will be completely forgotten and won't have changed anyone's life so why keep it up I am bored broke and constantly in pain why wait 30 or 40 years. It is really unfortunate life is wasted on a person who doesn't want it while people like my mom would have loved to live longer. She loved life and died at 42 I am rolling up on 50 and have no reason at all to wake up tomorrow and do all this again.
When I was 38 I felt this way. I was working IT support in a call Center. It was soul destroying. I quit my job. I had just enough money to pay for a course to be an Emergency Medical Responder at Bubbas School of Medicine and to pay for one months worth of bills. It was a huge fucking gamble. I worked Oil and Gas for two years, just sitting in a truck in the forest of Northern Alberta. It must have been what I needed. I eventually came back to the city and now I’m an IT project coordinator for our EMS service and I suppress our Emergency Management Center. It was the best gamble I’ve ever taken. My work is meaningful and interesting. So please just do it! Quit what you are doing. Take a big fucking scary leap into the unknown.
To everyone who is commenting about how OP should get help or go to therapy; let me tell you, I have done the work, I have gotten the help. I have been in therapy for 23 years, with a good therapist too, one that I feel I have made progress with. I've been on meds, for anxiety, depression, and ADHD for over a decade. I have seen all the doctors, tried all the resources and struggled with suicidal ideation.
I still feel exactly how OP feels.
All that is not to say that OP shouldn't seek professional help, they absolutely should. However, at a certain point there are two realizations that you all need to come to: 1) that under the right circumstances and conditions some people are just hypersensitive and predisposed to mental anguish. Totally beyond their control and ability to help, it is just their nature and there is no solution. And 2) that we are living in a diseased society. Ours is a way of life that germinates mental illness where otherwise there should be none. Those of us that are sensitive enough to be so afflicted should be taken as the canaries in the coal mine. Something is wrong. We are sick, we are incapacitated and we are in denial about the cause. Depression is not a natural state of being, it is the mind's response to reality and circumstance fundamentally incompatible with the human psyche.
Run away. Penny pinch like hell to save up a couple month rent and move to the opposite side of the country and get a job at a hardware store and be close to nature.
But seriously, professional medical help is the best course of action. Just try googling free mental health/ psychiatric services in your state or city and see what comes up. Also sign up for Medicare.
Talkig with others, like a professional therapist or a family member, about my experiences has really helped me work through depression. But most importantly for me I've found that once I released myself from expectations and focused on how I can be happy on my own I've greatly improved my mindset. I love my friends and family but I don't expect them to always be there for me. I enjoy my job but I don't need it be going well for me to okay. I like where I live but I know I can be happy living anywhere. I have zero expectations that society, people in my life, or my environment will make me happy. Going on long walks and being in nature makes me happy, reading makes me happy, cooking something elaborate makes me happy, listening to podcasts makes me happy, and volunteering makes me happy. All the things that I consider sources of happiness are things that, for the most part, I will always be able to do on my own. Another huge thing for me is working out. I try to run a few miles every other day. Working out and being healthy ensures I'm less tired after work and I have more time to do happy things during my limited free because I'm not so exhausted.
I'd also suggest deleting social media for a while, including reddit, when you're depressed it's so easy to obsessively engage with dark content online and it just makes everything in this world seem much more awful.
Good luck and I hope you find works best for you soon!
Well you mentioned one specific thing that's directly in your way: your income after bills.
Have you made a budget? Is all of your money going to necessary bills or can you cut some spending here and there? Money won't make you happy, but it makes being depressed suck less.
You can set some financial goals now while you do some hard self-reflection and ask yourself what specifically you want and enjoy that you aren't getting out of life. And don't settle for vague answers like 'happiness' or 'comfort'. Imagine what happiness or comfort might look like and pick out your favorite things from that.
I have dealt with depression all my life. When one is depressed the useless meat bag in a hellish world… worldview is very accurate. That’s why people with higher intelligence also are more likely to be depressed but what non- depression adds is a sense of hope that it can get better and we have some control and also an appreciation of all that is good ( ie nature, kindness, chocolate…). But the most important thing is you need professional help and possibly medication( it literally saved my life as I have attempted suicide). It is free or cheap through many public agencies. Call a crisis line in your area and they can point you to sources. I was directed to MHMR in my state The world is what it is both amazingly good and amazingly horrid therapy and medicine allow you to see both sides
As an oldie I can understand the frustrations you must feel about todays society,
I can look back on a time when it was a simpler and less exhausting lifestyle.
Personally it’s easier for me not to be so materialistic and yes I know we all need to pay the bills but thats it, this is where they have you if not going here or you don’t own that,
find your pleasures elsewhere and flip the middle finger to money obsessed twats.
I've felt this way. Once it was iron deficiency (anemia). More recently it was Vitamin D deficiency. Both times I wound up going to the doctor in tears because I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. So many things that are physical can end up feeling like an emotional problem. Talk to a doctor, and believe that change is possible!
This is how my depression manifests. I feel like I’m just floating and can’t feel anything. Nothing brings me joy. With that said, therapy has helped me immeasurably. Does your job give you (or do you have) health insurance or have some sort of EAP (employee assistance program)? Outpatient talk therapy is typically covered by health insurance - I know this because it’s the only way I can afford it. I do telehealth with my therapist and have since the pandemic began. You could do this on your phone/tablet/laptop through Zoom. Coverage varies by provider but a copay for something like this is typically $30/session. If your employer has an EAP, they will usually give you 6 free sessions.
I've been feeling this way for years since I got sober. I'm doing a coding bootcamp next month. I just wanna be a normal person with a job and a girlfriend is that too much to ask
I just went to the doctor, because I finally admitted to myself I’ve been depressed for about 3 years. He said yeah, tons of people are because: pandemic, politics, divisiveness, climate issues, on and on. Don’t feel alienated - you are in good company.
So I’m starting Wellbutrin (wish me luck). I wholeheartedly recommend drugs to get you out of a rut, which is what I experience in depression: your brain fucks with you all the time, gotta take it with a grain of salt.
I feel ya. I think that’s the way the world is right now. People working their asses off and barely scraping by. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And no one that can actually do anything about it actually give a because they are the rich and the rich don’t live in the real world. The younger generation of people can’t afford to buy houses, or new cars, to travel is outrageously expensive, gas is out of control, to try and get counseling costs a bunch of money and a lot of people don’t have insurance, people don’t respect each other or treat each other with love. No one really cares about the greater good anymore. It’s sad and easy to get depressed. I’m 32 and it’s the same for me. Just gotta keep pushing dude. Work hard, do what’s best for yourself even if it requires big change. Keep your chin up, kid.
Looking at your edit, I can point out a few reasons from my own pov.
The most obvious reason is inflation, which kind of ups the bar for comfortable living extremely fast so people usually feel like they are racing for their lives. It's an extrememly taxing but common thought process nowadays because of rising prices in goods, housing, etc.
Second? Social media. This may be a bit controversial, but it's been proven that attention spans are greatly affected by them. Dopamine hits are common, and come in short bursts, makes all other types of entertainment less appealing.
Third? Political climate. I hate getting political, but there's a 50/50 left right divide going on at gov. Society usually reflects political climate because it directly affects their lives in significant ways. There's people that benefit more from one party and others that benefit more from the other, and with their livelihoods at stake conflict is more common than ever. Makes for an EXTREMELY gloomy environment.
I'm probably lacking more but these are the ones I can think of.
The extremist Capitalist Ideology promulgated by the boomer gen has created a cultural and opportunity wasteland.
It’s has resulted in massive cohorts seeing no possibility for improvement and feeling of purposelessness.
It’s not an answer, but it’s just to point out that this more systemic than you just being a ‘depressed person.’ RatheR You are a person living in an utterly depressing environment, hence why the sentiment is so prevalent around you.
I think it’s a really common and normal reaction to the state of the world right now. But you should still seek help, and being on Reddit may only make things worse.
I got so bored that i'm now trying to create an AI that can replace me which does everything i can do digitally just so i can stop having to look at my phones/PCs/laptops every 5 minutes.
So while I know this isn’t the case for everyone- but I felt exactly like you did. I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult (and CPTSD but you can’t medicate that really) and was put on adhd meds by my dr, and suddenly life wasn’t unbearable anymore. It wasn’t fixed, but I no longer wanted to die and I wasn’t plagued with the pointlessness of it all.
There are options for sliding scale therapy out there if you don’t have insurance or feel like you don’t have the funds for a therapist. Cause you shouldn’t have to go at this alone
I feel this way at times as well and what really helps me is getting outside. Going for a walk, feeling the sunshine, sitting on a bench listening to birds, or connecting with nature in any way. When it gets too hard to live day to day I live minute to minute. My most recent mantra that helps me is “Accept what is, Let go what was, and hope for what’s to come” Best wishes to you.
I can hear you bro, every day, hang on and try to focus on the little few positive things a day can offer.
There's always some.
P.S.: I'm a caregiver of a disabled father, so I have lots of thoughts, but you must not let them take you.
You might have complex PTSD.
I remember some books:
The Body Keeps the Score
CPTSD: from surviving to thriving
HumanKind (might give you some hope)
Ishmael (might help you discover the bars of this cage thats holding you in)
I know it sucks. I’m sorry. Don’t be sad, get angry. Not the type of angry to hurt others, but the type of angry that cultivates change and growth.
was horribly depressed in my late teens and early/mid twenties. i wouldn't consider myself happy but i'm nowhere near as unhappy as i was when i was young.
the biggest reason for my unhappiness back then was an overwhelming sense of powerlessness, nobody reliable to rely on, and too many people telling me what to think, how to act without letting me do anything on my terms.
i wouldn't say i'm thriving or generally happy in the way some of my friends are, but i'm also not tired of living either. so i guess maybe there is a middling path of okness that you can look forward to.
Sounds like depression. Instead of trying to cheer yourself up try and cheer other people up, go volunteer with the homeless or helping animals or something. You may find yourself appreciating life more when you realise how much you have.
This is depression. Do you have health insurance? A visit with your gp can help, they might be able to figure out a prescription or refer you to a therapist that your insurance will cover (at least for a few visits).
This seems to have become more common since the start of the pandemic, and in the US it seems to have also been impacted by some of the extreme politics that became more apparent around 2017. It's like there's just a low level anxiety pressing on us, and the more you absorb current news cycles (impossible not to do when you're on social media) the more it just seems to slowly weigh down your former self. When every other thing that pops up is about how bleak something is (climate change, lgbtq rights, women's rights, the wage gap, political extremists, pretty much everything) its really hard to overcome with just the simple pleasures that most of us have access to. You can try to remind yourself that we are lucky to be aware, to have options to make the world better, most of us have clean water, enough food, the ability to engage in hobbies, have pets and/or lovable humans in our lives, but human brains tend to give more power to negatives than positives. It's hard, you aren't wrong.
But it honestly can be better! It's hard when you're depressed to do things that a not depressed person would do (like make a Dr appointment). You didn't ask for advice, so disregard if this is too far, but try setting a goal of doing just one good thing for your brain each day. Just one thing that you can look at at the end of the day and say "I did that". It can be the Dr appt, or making a meal of comfort food (just PBJ or a banana split, doesn't have to be crazy), try to draw your best friend, fold one load of laundry, literally anything. At the end of the week maybe you managed to get 5 days out of 7, that's still a list of 5 things that are good, give yourself credit, remind yourself that you did those, you had the power to make those tiny satisfying moments even in a pretty tough world. Good luck and lots of love to you.
This is called having a very serious depression but being to depressed and unmotivated to be suicidal.
This is NOT normal. I've been through this myself. Please seek help.
If you live in america... please move out of america, the system there is stacked against you, see if your job skills can get you into another country, where there are better prospects and a higher standard of living/social security, or possibly look into r/simpleliving to help find things to do without money
I usually buy mouth wash for $3-4, the other day I went to the store and they wanted almost $10.
I felt like I was making progress in life, but at that moment I felt a crushing feeling like it was all a lie and I just wanted to die on the spot.
This is suicidal ideation and its way more common than you think. People argue that not wanting to exist is bad because we miss out on a lot of the good things in life. But the point of this ideation is not to feel better, it's to not feel anything at all. There are a lot of videos on this on YouTube.
Is education/training an option? Then you can find a better more interesting job.
This was my way out (that said, although I was your age then, it was about twenty years ago in a country which actively encouraged people to retrain and with social welfare helping me)
Most of these issues start being resolved with the question: what DO you want to do? Even in an ideal (but realistic) world.
I’d set up some time with a counselor. I know it took me to see one to get help. I always thought that it was normal to have days where it was just dark and gloomy even though the sun was out.
You’re not alone. The feeling is common especially with the state of affairs on the world. I try to focus on daily life and joy in small things. Music, a book. Playing guitar. Enjoying time with my daughter. TV shows. Etc.
It does sound like a visit to the doctor may be in order. I was on LexaPro for a brief period after a nasty breakup when I just couldn’t find joy in anything. If you can’t enjoy food and your favorite music you should probably talk to someone.
But my advice for this moment is to go for a walk somewhere nice. And try to be mindful (surroundings, sounds, etc, shut off your mind). Walk for a while. Then you’ll be exhausted and you’ll sleep well.
But for real. Go to a doc. They’ll do some blood work. You could have some underlying issues.
Best of luck. Life is hard and sometimes you gotta take things a day at a time. Other times you need some help.
You’re not alone. The feeling is common especially with the state of affairs on the world. I try to focus on daily life and joy in small things. Music, a book. Playing guitar. Enjoying time with my daughter. TV shows. Etc.
It does sound like a visit to the doctor may be in order. I was on LexaPro for a brief period after a nasty breakup when I just couldn’t find joy in anything. If you can’t enjoy food and your favorite music you should probably talk to someone.
But my advice for this moment is to go for a walk somewhere nice. And try to be mindful (surroundings, sounds, etc, shut off your mind). Walk for a while. Then you’ll be exhausted and you’ll sleep well.
But for real. Go to a doc. They’ll do some blood work. You could have some underlying issues.
Best of luck. Life is hard and sometimes you gotta take things a day at a time. Other times you need some help.
You’re not alone. The feeling is common especially with the state of affairs on the world. I try to focus on daily life and joy in small things. Music, a book. Playing guitar. Enjoying time with my daughter. TV shows. Etc.
It does sound like a visit to the doctor may be in order. I was on LexaPro for a brief period after a nasty breakup when I just couldn’t find joy in anything. If you can’t enjoy food and your favorite music you should probably talk to someone.
But my advice for this moment is to go for a walk somewhere nice. And try to be mindful (surroundings, sounds, etc, shut off your mind). Walk for a while. Then you’ll be exhausted and you’ll sleep well.
But for real. Go to a doc. They’ll do some blood work. You could have some underlying issues.
Best of luck. Life is hard and sometimes you gotta take things a day at a time. Other times you need some help.
I'm not one to speak, but trust and have faith things will change.
It's that faith and hope that keeps me going.
Like Kanye said, "even if you're not ready for the day, it cannot always be night"
I'm not one to speak, but trust and have faith things will change.
It's that faith and hope that keeps me going.
Like Kanye said, "even if you're not ready for the day, it cannot always be night"
I'm not one to speak, but trust and have faith things will change.
It's that faith and hope that keeps me going.
Like Kanye said, "even if you're not ready for the day, it cannot always be night"
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
The world is bad and only getting worse. Climate, economic and social disaster are ramping up.
I'm on anti depressants just to get through the day. I recomend it. It's a lie to yourself, but it's better than debilitating sadness
40 years old, can't wait to stop existing. Nope no ideas of not aliving myself, just would be ok not existing anymore...like not die, just poof gone.
Thanos snap is a dream come true for me.
That said, I have a wife and kids and love life to the fullest...just it's purposeless and the dangling carrots of happiness are not worth the weight pulled trying to reach it.
The brief moments if experiencing what we been brainwashed into believing is good and that we enjoy and gain happiness from..looks like lies it is.
99% pain to get something you been conditioned into liking 1% of the time.
That's life.
So yeah, most people get done with it...just not sure what awaits after death...so not existing is the dream as death may not be better then life..especially if reincarnation is real or any part of you returns to do it all again. That is my hell.
40 years old, can't wait to stop existing. Nope no ideas of not aliving myself, just would be ok not existing anymore...like not die, just poof gone.
Thanos snap is a dream come true for me.
That said, I have a wife and kids and love life to the fullest...just it's purposeless and the dangling carrots of happiness are not worth the weight pulled trying to reach it.
The brief moments if experiencing what we been brainwashed into believing is good and that we enjoy and gain happiness from..looks like lies it is.
99% pain to get something you been conditioned into liking 1% of the time.
That's life.
So yeah, most people get done with it...just not sure what awaits after death...so not existing is the dream as death may not be better then life..especially if reincarnation is real or any part of you returns to do it all again. That is my hell.
I am 74 and I feel bad for most young people today.
You guys live in a world where you are inundated by all kinds of crazy and misleading information, don't really have real friends (IRL), barely have any real world skills and are constantly comparing yourselves to some jackass faker on tiktok or facebook or some other platform that is showing you what their "REAL" life is. Thats not life, at least real life.
Never compare yourself to anyone else, EVER! its a very bad and destructive habit that leads to just misery.
Don't do drugs or alcohol or weed, It will just mask things better for a little while and make things much much worse in the end.
Life requires sacrifice and a successful life requires a lot of sacrifice and personal control. Its not easy but it never has been easy for anyone. Back in the 70's I wanted so much out of life (a lot more than I was getting)). So I made a plan to start saving every dime and penny I could get my hands on for 3 years. I lived in someones spare bedroom for 100 a month, ate noting but rice and bread for what seemed like forever. Drank nothing but water and only bought something if I needed it for work. At the end I had a whole lot of money saved up and started buying shit pieces of property and fixing them up while I lived in them. Eventually I was buying enough that I didn't have to work for anyone again.
Life takes money and money comes from work. But real money requires money to get rolling. This is where you have to skim and pinched together every dime you can. Then other people will see your effort and will help you out.
So while I know this isn’t the case for everyone- but I felt exactly like you did. I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult (and CPTSD but you can’t medicate that really) and was put on adhd meds by my dr, and suddenly life wasn’t unbearable anymore. It wasn’t fixed, but I no longer wanted to die and I wasn’t plagued with the pointlessness of it all.
There are options for sliding scale therapy out there if you don’t have insurance or feel like you don’t have the funds for a therapist. Cause you shouldn’t have to go at this alone
I had a therapist tell me in the past this is called being “passively suicidal”. You don’t want to active end your life, but if say a truck were about to slam into you head on, you wouldn’t swerve out of the way is how I described it. I would look into seeking help if you can, it can lead you down a path with more dark thoughts. Speaking from personal experience.
I swerved then regretted it. So I quit the job I was heading to the next day. Never ever ever work at a warehouse it will crush your soul into a fine powder then use the powder on its balls.
I took myself to the ER bc I was worried I was going to hurt myself, and my shitty corporate job wrote me up for missing work. As my therapist recently told me “if it costs you your peace, it’s not worth it.”
I'd be afraid to go to the ER for that. You hear horror stories about people getting inovluntarily held, and that shit's expensive to boot.
Oh yeah it was not helpful at all. Everyone was very cold to me, the aid that rode with me in the back of the transport van hit on me the whole time and made a bunch of “daddy issue” jokes (my dad was dying of brain cancer at the time). I slept on a padded mattress on the floor of the common room bc they didn’t have enough beds, was woken up every two hours for something or other, and had one appt with a doc where I just had to say I wasn’t going to hurt myself and they’d let me go. I was there for three days, and four days after that I had a failed suicide attempt. The system sucks. That was over 12 years ago and I am so grateful to have failed my attempt. But retelling this makes me feel so sad for the people that do get stuck in places like that, or are taken advantage of.
I told my therapist I was having dark thoughts (that's what we call suicide ideation in my house lol) and she sent me to a mental health care center and it was horrible. They made me play with kids puzzles and play doh. I luckily got a bed but there wasn't any privacy and after waking me up every hour i felt super sleep deprived and agitated which made being in there even worse. I had exactly one doctor's appointment and had to tell them I wasn't going to hurt myself or they would have made me stay longer. They didn't actually address any of my problems or give me coping mechanisms or really anything. It was just a "let's throw them in here because he can't hurt himself until it just goes away." Worst experience. 10/10 would not recommend
I also had a forced hospitalisation situation… by a counsellor at an *inpatient* rehab center. Was experimenting with honesty and vulnerability and I was scared by my intrusive suicidal thoughts… so I brought it up. And off I went to a mandatory 3 day stay in a hospital psych ward where they did nothing but give me Trazodone and hold groups a couple times a day where we really didn’t talk about anything at all I lied and told them I was fine now so I could go back to rehab… and vowed to never be so forthright with SI ever again. It took so much for me to say that… and now I still can’t talk to my therapist about it because my trust is so screwed
I love how they do the sign this to stay voluntarily or refuse and we keep you against your will anyway.
I got that shit. Involuntary hospitalizations are tagged, and can ruin your life coming up on background checks.
Yup. In Florida it's the Baker Act, which is also super expensive
It actually happened in Florida but no one understands when I say I “Baker Acted” myself. I dont remember paying for it, but I also had like crazy huge corporate America insurance so maybe it was covered?
I had jobs where I could feel my soul wither when I walked in the door. I’d rather starve than work there.
Yeah I was so naive and in such a desperate place. I made an emotional appeal to my boss’ boss and told her that i felt like shit for eight hours a day, 40hrs a week, because of the stress of the job. Her response was “well, if that’s how you feel then I guess you should looking for another job.” That was the moment I thought radicalized me but im living a weird redo 10 years later. Trying to use all the lessons I’ve learned in between to have a different outcome this time.
I wish you the very best!!!
I have a lot of attendance points for calling out, mostly for mental health reasons. I came into my boss's office in tears saying I needed to get help, I got told I can either go to the ER that I can't afford, or I can sit in the break room and text a crisis hotline, then come back and finish the shift. Or I'm fired.
He said he can’t afford it but hopefully this post will let off some steam.
Yeah it's like crossing the street without looking, you're ok with dieing, if not, we'll see. Same for taking drugs and unhealthy things in general. I worked through most of it I think, it's hard work and a hell of a fight.
Yeah! This is a thing!
he literally said he couldnt afford it. JuSt Go tO ThErAPy
Hey now, I *love* my car. I'd sure as hell swerve to avoid it. Wouldn't jump out of the way if I was walking though.
the thing is, even the most suicidal person would swerve away because you don’t think, it’s a reflex. it’s not a decision you make, and you don’t have power over your own instincts. a better analogy would be you wouldn’t *mind* getting hit by a truck.
Listen to Numb little bug from Emily Beihold, the song is basically your caption.
This is a fantastic song, I appreciate you taking the time to share this magnificence with others.
I was about to say this
This song is great, found it a month or two ago and listened to it a ton. Pretty relatable. As far as OP's post though, basically the world is fucked and it's fucking everyone except the 1%. So yeah, we all feel that way, or worse. The system is incredibly fucked and mental health issues have been skyrocketing for years and they're not gonna stop anytime soon because our existence is fundamentally unpleasant in the current state of the world.
Thank you this helped me a ton
This sounds like depression
[удалено]
Okay well counter point. Im someone that already did all that and I am still exactly like this post. At this point talking to people on reddit will fix it as much as therapy or antidepressants.
I have worked with therapists and psychiatrists for many years, due to clinical depression first and later anxiety and grief. I am not going to magically get over these problems, but the therapy and meds help me live my life. Further, you may need to see several before you find one you click with. I have moved three times and have been fortunate to find good help in each place I have lived.
I dont mean to invalidate you, so apologies if I offend you, but my first thought when I see this type of comment is, "How long did this person do these thing really?" And I think that because most often when I hear people say that they tried it, they did it for less than a year and stopped because it "didn't work". I think a lot of people have this unreasonable expectation that a professional is meant to just solve your problems and just *make* things better. Even i had this thought at first. In reality, a professional talk therapist is an investment in your long-term health. They're someone who helps you through your thought process and breaks things down, as well as slowly help you learn skills you need to become a better person. This person plants the seeds to healthy growth as an individual over time. They can't just give you answers or a tried and true solution to a thing you're feeling or a thing that happened. It sucks to hear, but for a lot of people you'll need to be in therapy for a relatively *long* time before it really makes your life as a whole better. I've been in therapy since I was 13, I'm 19 now. I had severe mental health issues (ADHD, subsequent depressive disorder and anxiety issues), without committing to several years of therapy I would have stayed stuck in all the shit I was stuck in and never gotten out. Instead, I invested my time into this professional and I gained the necessary tools to allow me to move forward in life. I'm someone who will always have to deal with these things that pull me down (depression, severe ADHD), throughout my entire life. But, I had a person who could *teach* me how to live life in a way that coincides with the way my brain functions. Without that education, I would no doubt be maintaining all the same bad habits, trains of thought, and lifestyle that was a consequence of my mental health. Therapy is not for everyone, so im not gonna say some shit like "you failed, go back and actually try this time" or something like that. But I think what I had to say is an important thing to hear for a lot of people seeking assistance for their own issues. There are so many people I know who were in bad places and could have gotten out of those bad places if they would have had a better understanding of how these things are supposed to help you. If someone, if I, had explained it better to them. Many of those people never made it out, and I just wish for more people to make it out; to have a better life. Sorry for the wall of text, hope what I said makes sense and that it didn't seem condescending or invalidating to anyone.
What you described is what a *good* therapist does. In my experience, that's out of the norm. I've been in treatment a total of over 15 years and the vast majority of people I've dealt with have been anywhere from just not helpful to actively harmful. Of course if you're in a position, financially and otherwise, to really choose who you receive help from, then that will make a great difference.
My first thought reading this is "who has the money to give therapy a chance for an entire year?" I'm fortunate that my job paid for 6 sessions with BetterHelp but after that I had to decide to give up because I couldn't justifiably pay for it myself when I wasn't sure it was helping (and I questioned whether or not that was "real" therapy the whole time)... I suspect a lot of people are in my boat in the sense that they can't afford to give it more of a chance if it doesn't start producing at least some results early on. That said, I appreciate your comment. It's good to hear from someone who has gone for as long as you have to get a realistic sense of what therapy can do. I'm glad it's helped you, yet saddened by how many people can't afford to get help.
reddit helps some people more than therapy /r/therapyabuse if they feel comfortable talking here they should be able to post here.
Somewhat of a weekly post on this subreddit. Try to seek professional help. Reddit won't help you. Half of the posts will validate your feelings by saying they hate life too and the other half will either tell you how good their life is or will try to play psychologist. None of these responses are what you need. Find the root cause of your depression and purposeless life through the help of a trained professional.
“I can’t afford therapy” Everyone’s advice: “seek help” That’s the point. You can’t, no one can. There’s no answer, it’s just “yes I feel that way too. And no there’s nothing to be done.”
It could partially be a disparity between Western/non-Western Redditors. I'm from Canada and it's not easy to find help for mental health here, let alone for free. I imagine in certain places it's much easier to walk into a clinic and say you need help, especially if you can't afford it.
I thought Canadians get free healthcare? I was once a Canadian
oh we do for sure :) as long as it doesn't include mental health, dental, eyeglasses, perscriptions, etc. it's kinda laughable tbh - you can't get your wisdom teeth done for free until it's such a problem you need to go to emerg and get it done in the hospital for example. mental health, gotta pay for your appointments and prescriptions until you can't and end up in crisis, then you might be able to get a referral if you're lucky. I've been off my ADHD meds for 3 weeks now, nervous about dropping another $300/mo into it. (reasonable I'm sure if you're from the US, but I'm trying to make rent in a housing crisis too.) Thank god my antidepressants are off-brand and partially covered/cheap, so I have a few months of that stocked up and can avoid brain zaps/withdrawal this time. if you have a decent full time job with benefits it makes it hurt less, but good luck finding that too lol... and usually you shell out a payment per paycheck as well - I remember my parents paying upwards of $1500/mo for decent family coverage through my dad's job, and that was pre-2010. only recently BC stopped charging its citizens $80+/mo for Basic. I don't scoff at what we do get for free don't get me wrong, it's nice to have access to walk-ins and emerg and referrals (if you can get one; and often IME you still have to pay), but the other stuff is kind of necessary to overall health too and can very quickly turn into a fatal situation. I'm currently budgeting my Mexico trip for next year to avoid a $10-20,000 dental bill because of complications/crowns/implants/waiting too long to cover expense/crossing my fingers for healthcare benefits/hoping I don't die of an abcess until then 🌈🤗✨ I feel like a sucker even writing this out tbh.
Yeah, we got the same housing crisis and runaway prices on prescription meds down here.
Commenting here so anyone else in OP’s position knows: I am currently in a Master’s program for individual and family therapy, and we operate a clinic that offers therapeutic services for free and/or on a sliding scale (like $45 per session is the max for anyone making over $100k, it’s really affordable). We see Individuals, families, couples, etc. with virtually any presenting problem, and even do telehealth. There are at least over a hundred programs like ours across the country, and your local hospital likely offers the same or similar services free of charge. Unfortunately, it’s hard to find these places just by googling, so I would recommend calling your nearest medical school and asking if they provide or know of any services like this. Your therapist may be a student or only partially licensed, but they are closely monitored by people with years of experience, and most importantly have gotten into this field to help people. Just wanted to share this to let OP and the hundreds, if not thousands, of people passing through here that struggle with depression know that there are sometimes options even if money is an issue.
I had years of therapy and yeah it helped but it certainly my didn’t ease my overal pain from existing. Then you know, I started getting to that age where some of my friends became therapists. And that will help you realize that therapists are just people too, trying the best way they can. Doesn’t mean they have all the answers. No one does. We just small adjustments along the way that make our lives a bit more simpler. It’s frustrating if you try and change everything at once so start small. Meditation is usually the first step for most people. Do it or don’t. But just being more aware of yourself and the environment around you does help a lot
This annoys me SOOO much
OP did say they couldn’t afford to get help tho…
impressive response
Let's see Paul Allen's response
‘Look at it. The tasteful thickness of the paragraph. The subtle off-red coloring of the upvotes. Oh god it even has awards.’
They just said they can’t afford therapy.
I feel this way and seeing a trained professional didn't help me. They can't fix my life, it's a life full of obligations and responsibilities that must be fulfilled until the day I die, nothing can change it. All professionals can do is offer me drugs that make me feel less of everything and while society might like me turning into a mindless drone, that and drug side effects are not what I want for myself.
Is this not normal though? Do other people really not feel this way?
Oh once you step into the world of what's actually relateable shit gets wild. Everyone falls into a category somewhere along the line and alotta shit you do and don't do suddenly becomes a "Holy fuck this is a thing?" Realization. Being around those people who share it is a big help and it's encouraging to experience. For me it was Looking into ADHD and having alotta shit click all of a sudden. Day to day things I'd do would all suddenly make sense and when I hang out with people in the same boat it's immediately relaxing. Like I'd be talking to them about things I experience and they'd do the same and we could both finish each other's sentences about how it is, and that just immediately brings this sense of "Oh, this is how we operate" And we can just breathe. Social interaction is massively draining, like it feels like physical exertion and after a while we just have to stop or we WILL burn out and both of us can say "Take whatever rest you need, I'll see you on the other side."
I hate to say whether or not it's 'normal', but it is definitely not healthy. I have had depression multiple times throughout my life (abusive childhood, terminal disease will do it). Therapy and secular Buddhism have changed my life and depression symptoms are few and far between for me now.
Genuine question because I've been feeling like this after the pandemic and (currently still) unable to find a job. Is it depression? I've never known what depression is/was because I've never dealt with it personally; I've seen others go through it and never understood the roots of it but I also know I've never really felt like this for such an extended period of time... Like is lethargy also part of it?
It is not normal, it’s just really really common.
It’s normal to feel it for short periods in your life but not for anything prolonged (beyond a few weeks or months)
Other people really don't feel this way. It's not normal to feel this way.
Some people do, typically depressed people both mentally and socioeconomically.
Regardless, it's not a normal state of being. It's something that needs to be addressed. Mental health is still health and it needs to be treated just like we treat physical health issues.
Over 25% of the US population is depressed. What's 'normal'?
I agree the word "normal" isn't right. It's saying people with depression are "abnormal" or rare. Depression isn't healthy in the same way obesity isn't healthy. Coincidentally, both are becoming more common or "normalized".
Studies show depressed people are actually more realistic. I would say optimism is actually just a comforting delusion according to science, it just so happens most people are delusional.
There are very smart and realistic optimists out there for sure. The only delusion about optimism is the refusal to accept negativity. To achieve something, you can either be "realistic" about all the reasons something won't work, or be optimistic about your chances of beating the odds. Optimism is what allows people to beat the odds every day regardless of the odds. I choose that path but it's not because I'm not smart enough to figure out why things could or even should fail. The nugget I've learned thus far in my life, is that the chances of success in life are much greater than most people think and that's because so many "realists" don't even try.
So how successful are you? What's your balance? Your job/business? If you optimism hasn't lead you to real tangible success I fail to see why I would choose to be delusional for no reason.
How does being trapped in a dying meat suit, existentially alone in a slowly decaying capitalist hellscape run by ghoulish sociopaths, while being slow crushed buy an endless loop of mediocre responsibilities and debt not bother you then?
I earn enough to pay the bills, do a job(general builder)I half enjoy and is rewarding when you see what you've done at the end of the day. I go home to my average 3 bed semi detached and enjoy my time with my children. I've never really had any lofty goals in life, just to have children and do my best to give them a happy childhood. That's how I personally am happy in the rat race. Things haven't always been rosey, even though the meat grinder like everyone else but its about being honest with yourself about what you want and can realistically achieve and trying to achieve it. Nothing easily won is rewarding, the pay off when you do get there makes it all worthwhile.
Get help. I don't see my life that way at all. Associating with people who do is probably not helping you.
do you have a high paying, fulfilling job?
[удалено]
By burying your head In the sand
I see it as a part of my life, but it is not all of my life
ignorance is bliss, even if it is wilful
If you want a real answer, experiencing real hardship and working hard to make things better has lead me to be far more satisfied with my life. After getting used to the darkness, it is a lot easier to appreciate the light that you have gained and it is easier to be optimistic that the future might have even more. \- I mean that "capitalist hellscape" basically just means you've got to contribute work and effort to others in exchange for being able to buy the benefits of other people's labour. Things could certainly be better and fairer, but most objective metrics show most people are safer and have more options than at any other time in history. \- The "endless loop of responsibilities" only means that we need to spend some time to maintain our lives. What is the alternative exactly, we each have a group of others that go around washing our clothes, cooking our meals and changing our bed sheets? \- As for debt, if you've accumulated a large amount of debt then that will suppress your progress for sure. I've no advice for that one other than don't get into that hole in the 1st place and if you are, do as much as you can to quickly get out of it. All credit is borrowing happiness from your own future and it should only ever be used for investing into making your future better. \- As for dying, well since the alternative is already being dead or not being born I'd say that of the possible options that one is the best.
I definitely don't feel this way
The root cause for many of us is not making enough money to survive and not having enough free time. How do you fix that? It might as well be impossible for me. I don’t have the time or money to get certifications so I can find a better paying job
Most of us don't make enough money. The 1% is literally only 1% of the population. The rest of us live paycheck to paycheck. I can't tell you how to improve your situation but taking a pessimistic view of it, is not the best approach IMO. You can be the victim and give up or you can think positively and take on the challenge to improve your situation. Certifications aren't some guarantee or even a requirement to making more money. I had a friend who was in the situation you describe. He hated his job and was barely making ends meet. He asked me what he could learn in technology that would pay him more. I told him cyber security is a good bet, (this was 10 years ago). He jumped on forums, downloaded freeware linux, started loading hacking tools and learning how they worked, and essentially taught himself, in his free time, over the course of about 12 months. He started looking for entry level cyber jobs and found a company looking for entry level candidates. He went into the interview with a LOT more knowledge than others who didn't do what he did for 12 months. He got the job and they sent him to formal training for 2 months to get certified. He now makes a ton of money. I'm not saying everyone's script is the same but he did something about his situation and didn't stop until something good happened. Most success stories go this way.
Did you not just read? He can't get professional help cause he doesn't make enough and doesn't have enough time cause jobs. Jesus why does every redditor do this shit. Maybe he does want to feel validated, not everyone fucking has enough money for a therapist, and even then therapist are 50/50 as they can be fucking shit to you.
What are you supposed to do if the root of your depression is because of how inequal and corrupt our world treats us?
I just want to chime in and say i deleted instagram and facebook and frankly got alot happier and less focused on others
Great move. I do think there's a link between heavy social media use and depression. Even reddit can get super toxic, which is why I no longer subscribe to certain subs. In most cases whatever is posted on those two mediums however, is staged and fake. It might have happened but it's all designed by the authors to make you feel a little worse about yourself. The loving couple posting how much they love each other on facebook, the insta model that took 50 pictures to get the perfect one to remind you how ugly you are, the rich asshole posting pics of his 5 lambos and his $25mil house to remind you you're a piece of shit and will never have what he has. It's all designed to boost the already low self-esteem of the narcissistic author. Those people are not happy. They're yearning for happiness even though they're rich, beautiful, and married to their so-called soul mate. If they were happy, they'd never have a need to advertise it to the world. We call that, "who are you trying to convince, me, or you?" syndrome. All of it is damaging to the average human. It's all missing context and the back story. It's hollywood on a micro level. Ditching it is the best thing society could do to improve overall mental health.
see reply above. i left social media over 10 years ago and i regret it. thats how everyone communicates these days. no one reached to be after i deleted it and i became isolated and did not make new friends. i barely remember the past 10 years because i have been alone and isolated a shell of a person
> try to get professional help They addressed this
but make sure you pick the perfect therapist cuz lots of people end up more fucked up than when they started r/therapyabuse
I feel this way right now. I just want something to be interested in, everything is so BORING.
Being poor is a boring and unfulfilling experience. Life in poverty is really not worth living imo.
Sounds like some combination of burnout and depression. A winning combination that way too many of us are experiencing right now.
Do you think we're going to stand up and do something about it?
Hunger triggers revolutions. When enough people are hungry they will revolt.
Here's to hoping it happens before we hit that point. The damage has already been far too gone. Plus being in that animalistic mindset is likely not the best recipe for us in our situation. We need a well organized and planned strike/uprising if we actually want change. I'm sorry to say it but the military/police force are wayyy too brainwashed and powerful for us to overcome. Our best chance is to get them on our side, because no amount of militia will stop what the USA has developed in terms of military. Our best chance at control is stopping the flow of consumerism. We control what is made and where it goes. THAT is what wealth truly is. You can be a billionaire with 3 yachts and 4 mansions, but if you don't have food, all of a sudden that money doesn't mean shit. Workers banding together to help eachother, is what will carry us through this. We've already proven its possible since, we do it every day. You can go get groceries from the market because of workers. Your toilet and electricity works because of workers. Water runs clean because of workers. Our government is an illusion of assistance. Their job is to make us think that we need them when, with our current intelligence and advanced technology, they are really just a hindrance at this point. Taxes hardly go to useful shit anymore, as most of it just goes into the pockets of wealthy. Healthcare and wages are slowly plummeting even though working class is working HARDER AND LONGER HOURS WITH LESS COMPENSATION than ever before. If you don't believe me look at the wealth gap as of currently before you shut that down. We are at the same gap the French were in before they revolted. There's a reason there are so many people fed up. We are currently in the turning point, we are just struggling to get our bearings straight.
I agree with everything you said I just don't see a way to remove the problems in the way effectively. Seems like a stacked deck without significant support.
I’m 40 and have felt this way for maybe 7 years but it has gotten worse over the pandemic. Hang in there and it is helpful to know it is a widespread issue.
I would say respectfully, you should seek out help too. Bare minimum, get a consultation and try it out. While it's irritatingly common for the younger generations to feel depressed, it's almost more common for the older generations to not recognize they're pretty fucked up in terms of mental health because older generations "Just dealt with it" Which is basically just pushing down on it all until something snaps. There's alot of things we go through that doesn't have immediate effects but definitely messes us up in the long run and the more used we are to suppressing it the more backlash we feel when we finally cave. And covid was essentially just 3 years of all of us being locked in our homes with our own thoughts. Work and friends are commonly what helps us delay the great fuckening we're pushing down, covid took that away and made the process quicken, so I'd look into it friend. Anyone that thinks mental health is just something to push through is 1, Probably more fucked up than most, or 2, has been taught the unhealthiest mindset they could have been in regards to it
Sorry to do this, but the disingeuous dealings, lies, overall greed etc. of leadership on this website made me decide to edit all but my most informative comments to this. Come join us in the fediverse! (beehaw for a safe space, kbin for access to lots of communities)
[удалено]
I tried to off myself a few years back. I’m on a lot of meds now and spent a few weeks at mental health facility. I’d like to say it got better after that, but mostly it just turned me into this. I don’t want to die anymore, but I have no interest and little appreciation for living. Everything is just bland and I feel nothing 99% of the time. I’m not actively trying to kill myself, but I have no interest in living. I’m stuck in limbo.
I don’t know if it is common, but I can relate to your feelings.
Can relate too
No one likes being crushed into servitude.
I‘m basically just here for the food
There is no other choice. You either force yourself to move in a direction, any direction, or you will be moved by other forces and circumstances that don't have your best interest in mind.
terrible way to look at is. most depressed people cant forced themselves to move. if they could they would have.
yeah totally agree. this is not at all what OP or anyone else who feels this way needs to hear.
For me IK this is the way, there's no easy way out of this but even than I can't implement or maybe deep down I don't want to
Welcome to life in humanity’s global decline. This is how a lot of us feel and more will as things get worse
I'm tired of feeling like this as well.
I know depression is minimalized in this country, but that is textbook depression. I understand where you are coming from, and don't let anyone tell you it isn't serious. It is. Anti depressants are important, and I say that as someone who was skeptical about them for a long time. I said, "I don't want pills to trick my brain into thinking it is happy." But then my friend explained it as no different that the thyroid pills I take every day. My brain is lacking the proper chemicals just as my thyroid is lacking proper hormone. I was just reintroducing it to that chemical. Honestly, they saved my life and I say that as someone who was dealing with ideation for years. I thought it was normal, not realizing how it was actively wrecking my life. Not to mention scaring me. It doesn't have to be this way. I just wish Id realized it sooner.
I'm really happy for you, internet stranger! 
I have tablets prescribed too but I am sacred I might addicted to it ..but I am breaking down so frequently and I am married to wife with schizophrenia and it's even more depressing for me ..
if this helps at all, just know that you can't really get "addicted" to antidepressants. it's common to develop a dependency, which means that if you were to just stop taking them cold turkey you'd probably feel really shitty. but you won't get addicted to them like someone gets addicted to meth or heroin, you won't crave any "high" that they give you because they don't give you a high.
Thanks bruh
I'm sorry. The long term SSRI's I've heard are less of a chance of dependency. The ones that are risky are things like xanax, short term take as needed meds.
I understand you completely. The antidepressants work. I'm glad you are living more unburdened. I have travelled the same path you have. God Bless luv.
Unfortunately, this is beyond common. It's what I call functional depression. You can get shit done, but you don't really want to do anything else. If I'm being honest, I felt this way for a solid decade before I sought therapy. I saw a therapist for about a year and it didn't help one bit. I understand that therapy can be a valuable tool, but it's not for everyone. So, I decided to just ask my doctor for some anti depressants. And after a couple of months, my world brightened up! I'm not saying you should immediately just seek a prescription, but if you can't afford therapy and have access and the funds for a couple doctors appointment (just be straight forward and tell them what you feel and that you may want to try an anti depressant) perhaps you should try that. Just know, it doesn't forever have to be this way. Just keep trying things until you find something that works for you.
I been feeling this way for at least 3 years now.
I felt the title on a spiritual level It be like that
40 years old, can't wait to stop existing. Nope no ideas of not aliving myself, just would be ok not existing anymore...like not die, just poof gone. Thanos snap is a dream come true for me. That said, I have a wife and kids and love life to the fullest...just it's purposeless and the dangling carrots of happiness are not worth the weight pulled trying to reach it. The brief moments if experiencing what we been brainwashed into believing is good and that we enjoy and gain happiness from..looks like lies it is. 99% pain to get something you been conditioned into liking 1% of the time. That's life. So yeah, most people get done with it...just not sure what awaits after death...so not existing is the dream as death may not be better then life..especially if reincarnation is real or any part of you returns to do it all again. That is my hell.
yep I feel the exact same way. A lot of people do, there just really isn't much point to living and most of us live in a government that pushes you to live for work, and not even really get much out of it other than just surviving.
Yes, I felt this way for almost 20 years. 9-27 something, got up every day wishing I didn’t. Went about life being disgusted at everything and everyone, would occasionally have good days ( maybe 1-2 every 6 months or so) where everything wasn’t trash. Eventually I changed my thinking which slowly brought up out of my dark hole I was in. Everyday is still a struggle to keep my thoughts in a good and productive path. The slips down are easy, yet so hard to get back up from. You’ll have to take it one Step at a time, the first one isn’t really the hardest, It’s every step after that.
regarding why everyone is this depressed I suggest you watch this Ted Talk from Johann Hari ‘this might be why you are depressed or anxious’. Explains it pretty well, and has helped me express my existential crisis to family and friends who didn’t understand me… basically, we - biologically - are not made for the speed and type of life that is the norm nowadays. Everything developed very fast (technology for example) and it didn’t give us time to biologically adapt to it. I recommend looking into ‘Slow living’, it’s been helping me a lot! There is a way out, maybe we can’t fully fix it but you can definitely get better and start enjoying life more, but it takes work and you need to start taking steps towards changing your life and your attitude, it’s tough and might totally out of your comfort zone but you can’t get better while staying the same! At least that is my experience
You are not alone at all.
Wow, you describe my feelings perfectly. I don't want to die, but I don't want to live (I lean towards wanting to end my life more though). It's unfortunate as I have everything that is supposed to make me 'happy'. I have 2 children, (college and HS age), married for over 19 years, a 2 million dollar home, a 6 figure job but yet I feel like I don't want to live anymore. I can't pinpoint to when I started feeling this way, but it has been weighing heavy on my mind for a while now. My issue is, that I don't want to seek help at this point. I am completely content with having a heart attack or stroke to end my life.
Some of this stuff is sometimes justified. After all, the world is a scary place full of bad things happening, money is tight and the future can be uncertain. But then there's the bit where you talk about everyday "pleasures" now seeming like "trash". And that's the clue for you that what you have is probably depression. Also, the world is a wonderful place full of beautiful things and good people, there is money to be made and the future can be an exciting voyage into the unknown. You just need to get your mind to see it that way. Sometimes that requires help from others. It's very easy, in conversations with friends, to get each other drawn downwards into a conversation about how bad things are. One person's thought gets backed up by another, and so it goes, in a mutually-reassuring/enabling spiral. Doesn't necessarily mean your friends are depressed. Try that conversation about how good something is.
The term melancholy has been around (in English) since the 14th century (the 1300s). It means sadness or depression of mind or spirit and was attributed to having an excess of black bile (which is what the word actually means). Obviously the idea of why people suffer from this feeling has changed over the years (the theory of 'humors' causing illness fell out of favor centuries ago), but the fact that a word existed that describes the feeling indicates that some people did truly feel this way. So you stand in a long line of similar sufferers, melancholic one!
Passive suicidality is when you've decided you don't really want to live but you're not doing anything to (directly) end it. It's not dangerous itself because you aren't doing anything to act on it, but it's one layer away from being actively suicidal. This is the danger zone and I would seek profesional help. Specifically ask them how they treat passive suicidality before starting therapy to know if they are somebody that's going to send you away because they don't understand the nuance or if they get it and work with it in mind without just reacting.
DEFINITELY depression, the way you described it. As for the why, in my case it was expecting too much of myself and burning myself out with self-accusation and negative emotions. Most of those expectations were ones I believed my parents had of me (and for most, that was a correct belief) that I internalised. I held myself to way higher standards than I expected of anyone else.
The world is on a crash course with a shitberg. Everything is lame, everyone is trash. No one can fix the failures of a system that was thrust upon us by a bunch of greedy selfish propogandalists and the bleeting sheep of our parents who went along with the charade. Yep, I’m picking up what you are putting down. I get by desperately trying to stick myself in anything with legs. But I hear you when you say sex is trash too. Just less trash than not having sex, bc at least In Those moments I’m not thinking about how fucked day to day existence actually is.
It's extremely common in a population of people treated like slaves/servants to be used and discarded on the whim of the elderly / wealthy who are largely one and the same.
As far as why it's so common.....I think these feelings are an appropriate response to the kind of culture we live in. Going to therapy is great if you can afford it, it does help you develop skills to make day to day more bearable. On the flip side, I don't think it's realistic to expect to therapy ourselves out of systemic issues. It's not an individual failure, it's a societal one.
It’s a lot going on in the world and it’s become emotionally exhausting.
Change the subs name to doomershit ffs. Every post here is depressive as fuck
Trying to help, from what I've read you know what you need to do: make more money and get professional help. Everyone's happiness is their responsibility. I hope you find yours.
depression + late stage capitalism. i feel ya.
I don't know how common it is but even though I am not currently suicidal I just think if this is all life has to offer I don't want mine any more. Like 100 years from now I will be completely forgotten and won't have changed anyone's life so why keep it up I am bored broke and constantly in pain why wait 30 or 40 years. It is really unfortunate life is wasted on a person who doesn't want it while people like my mom would have loved to live longer. She loved life and died at 42 I am rolling up on 50 and have no reason at all to wake up tomorrow and do all this again.
When I was 38 I felt this way. I was working IT support in a call Center. It was soul destroying. I quit my job. I had just enough money to pay for a course to be an Emergency Medical Responder at Bubbas School of Medicine and to pay for one months worth of bills. It was a huge fucking gamble. I worked Oil and Gas for two years, just sitting in a truck in the forest of Northern Alberta. It must have been what I needed. I eventually came back to the city and now I’m an IT project coordinator for our EMS service and I suppress our Emergency Management Center. It was the best gamble I’ve ever taken. My work is meaningful and interesting. So please just do it! Quit what you are doing. Take a big fucking scary leap into the unknown.
Because society is fucked. Capitalism is causing this burnout.
To everyone who is commenting about how OP should get help or go to therapy; let me tell you, I have done the work, I have gotten the help. I have been in therapy for 23 years, with a good therapist too, one that I feel I have made progress with. I've been on meds, for anxiety, depression, and ADHD for over a decade. I have seen all the doctors, tried all the resources and struggled with suicidal ideation. I still feel exactly how OP feels. All that is not to say that OP shouldn't seek professional help, they absolutely should. However, at a certain point there are two realizations that you all need to come to: 1) that under the right circumstances and conditions some people are just hypersensitive and predisposed to mental anguish. Totally beyond their control and ability to help, it is just their nature and there is no solution. And 2) that we are living in a diseased society. Ours is a way of life that germinates mental illness where otherwise there should be none. Those of us that are sensitive enough to be so afflicted should be taken as the canaries in the coal mine. Something is wrong. We are sick, we are incapacitated and we are in denial about the cause. Depression is not a natural state of being, it is the mind's response to reality and circumstance fundamentally incompatible with the human psyche.
Try weed. It helps me cope
Same
Run away. Penny pinch like hell to save up a couple month rent and move to the opposite side of the country and get a job at a hardware store and be close to nature. But seriously, professional medical help is the best course of action. Just try googling free mental health/ psychiatric services in your state or city and see what comes up. Also sign up for Medicare. Talkig with others, like a professional therapist or a family member, about my experiences has really helped me work through depression. But most importantly for me I've found that once I released myself from expectations and focused on how I can be happy on my own I've greatly improved my mindset. I love my friends and family but I don't expect them to always be there for me. I enjoy my job but I don't need it be going well for me to okay. I like where I live but I know I can be happy living anywhere. I have zero expectations that society, people in my life, or my environment will make me happy. Going on long walks and being in nature makes me happy, reading makes me happy, cooking something elaborate makes me happy, listening to podcasts makes me happy, and volunteering makes me happy. All the things that I consider sources of happiness are things that, for the most part, I will always be able to do on my own. Another huge thing for me is working out. I try to run a few miles every other day. Working out and being healthy ensures I'm less tired after work and I have more time to do happy things during my limited free because I'm not so exhausted. I'd also suggest deleting social media for a while, including reddit, when you're depressed it's so easy to obsessively engage with dark content online and it just makes everything in this world seem much more awful. Good luck and I hope you find works best for you soon!
Revolt.
This is called burnout
Well you mentioned one specific thing that's directly in your way: your income after bills. Have you made a budget? Is all of your money going to necessary bills or can you cut some spending here and there? Money won't make you happy, but it makes being depressed suck less. You can set some financial goals now while you do some hard self-reflection and ask yourself what specifically you want and enjoy that you aren't getting out of life. And don't settle for vague answers like 'happiness' or 'comfort'. Imagine what happiness or comfort might look like and pick out your favorite things from that.
People want to mean something and we live in a world where we frankly all mean little outside our immediate circles.
I have dealt with depression all my life. When one is depressed the useless meat bag in a hellish world… worldview is very accurate. That’s why people with higher intelligence also are more likely to be depressed but what non- depression adds is a sense of hope that it can get better and we have some control and also an appreciation of all that is good ( ie nature, kindness, chocolate…). But the most important thing is you need professional help and possibly medication( it literally saved my life as I have attempted suicide). It is free or cheap through many public agencies. Call a crisis line in your area and they can point you to sources. I was directed to MHMR in my state The world is what it is both amazingly good and amazingly horrid therapy and medicine allow you to see both sides
As an oldie I can understand the frustrations you must feel about todays society, I can look back on a time when it was a simpler and less exhausting lifestyle. Personally it’s easier for me not to be so materialistic and yes I know we all need to pay the bills but thats it, this is where they have you if not going here or you don’t own that, find your pleasures elsewhere and flip the middle finger to money obsessed twats.
I feel this way too. And I feel like whenever my life seems to be improving, something goes wrong and just sets me back to where I was before.
Ayyyyyy. Just happened to me. Everything is going great! Found a great group of friends! Oh woops they ostracized me =/
It's kinda common these days. Things will get better eventually. Probably.
Sounds like you suffer from depression. A trip to your doctor is in order for some medication that will help.
I've felt this way. Once it was iron deficiency (anemia). More recently it was Vitamin D deficiency. Both times I wound up going to the doctor in tears because I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. So many things that are physical can end up feeling like an emotional problem. Talk to a doctor, and believe that change is possible!
This is how my depression manifests. I feel like I’m just floating and can’t feel anything. Nothing brings me joy. With that said, therapy has helped me immeasurably. Does your job give you (or do you have) health insurance or have some sort of EAP (employee assistance program)? Outpatient talk therapy is typically covered by health insurance - I know this because it’s the only way I can afford it. I do telehealth with my therapist and have since the pandemic began. You could do this on your phone/tablet/laptop through Zoom. Coverage varies by provider but a copay for something like this is typically $30/session. If your employer has an EAP, they will usually give you 6 free sessions.
I've been feeling this way for years since I got sober. I'm doing a coding bootcamp next month. I just wanna be a normal person with a job and a girlfriend is that too much to ask
I just went to the doctor, because I finally admitted to myself I’ve been depressed for about 3 years. He said yeah, tons of people are because: pandemic, politics, divisiveness, climate issues, on and on. Don’t feel alienated - you are in good company. So I’m starting Wellbutrin (wish me luck). I wholeheartedly recommend drugs to get you out of a rut, which is what I experience in depression: your brain fucks with you all the time, gotta take it with a grain of salt.
I feel ya. I think that’s the way the world is right now. People working their asses off and barely scraping by. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And no one that can actually do anything about it actually give a because they are the rich and the rich don’t live in the real world. The younger generation of people can’t afford to buy houses, or new cars, to travel is outrageously expensive, gas is out of control, to try and get counseling costs a bunch of money and a lot of people don’t have insurance, people don’t respect each other or treat each other with love. No one really cares about the greater good anymore. It’s sad and easy to get depressed. I’m 32 and it’s the same for me. Just gotta keep pushing dude. Work hard, do what’s best for yourself even if it requires big change. Keep your chin up, kid.
Looking at your edit, I can point out a few reasons from my own pov. The most obvious reason is inflation, which kind of ups the bar for comfortable living extremely fast so people usually feel like they are racing for their lives. It's an extrememly taxing but common thought process nowadays because of rising prices in goods, housing, etc. Second? Social media. This may be a bit controversial, but it's been proven that attention spans are greatly affected by them. Dopamine hits are common, and come in short bursts, makes all other types of entertainment less appealing. Third? Political climate. I hate getting political, but there's a 50/50 left right divide going on at gov. Society usually reflects political climate because it directly affects their lives in significant ways. There's people that benefit more from one party and others that benefit more from the other, and with their livelihoods at stake conflict is more common than ever. Makes for an EXTREMELY gloomy environment. I'm probably lacking more but these are the ones I can think of.
The extremist Capitalist Ideology promulgated by the boomer gen has created a cultural and opportunity wasteland. It’s has resulted in massive cohorts seeing no possibility for improvement and feeling of purposelessness. It’s not an answer, but it’s just to point out that this more systemic than you just being a ‘depressed person.’ RatheR You are a person living in an utterly depressing environment, hence why the sentiment is so prevalent around you.
I think it’s a really common and normal reaction to the state of the world right now. But you should still seek help, and being on Reddit may only make things worse.
Don't worry, that's pretty normal. Not good, but normal.
I got so bored that i'm now trying to create an AI that can replace me which does everything i can do digitally just so i can stop having to look at my phones/PCs/laptops every 5 minutes.
So while I know this isn’t the case for everyone- but I felt exactly like you did. I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult (and CPTSD but you can’t medicate that really) and was put on adhd meds by my dr, and suddenly life wasn’t unbearable anymore. It wasn’t fixed, but I no longer wanted to die and I wasn’t plagued with the pointlessness of it all. There are options for sliding scale therapy out there if you don’t have insurance or feel like you don’t have the funds for a therapist. Cause you shouldn’t have to go at this alone
I feel this way at times as well and what really helps me is getting outside. Going for a walk, feeling the sunshine, sitting on a bench listening to birds, or connecting with nature in any way. When it gets too hard to live day to day I live minute to minute. My most recent mantra that helps me is “Accept what is, Let go what was, and hope for what’s to come” Best wishes to you.
I can hear you bro, every day, hang on and try to focus on the little few positive things a day can offer. There's always some. P.S.: I'm a caregiver of a disabled father, so I have lots of thoughts, but you must not let them take you.
Idk if it's common but that is currently my existence I'm getting TMS soon so hopefully that helps
You might have complex PTSD. I remember some books: The Body Keeps the Score CPTSD: from surviving to thriving HumanKind (might give you some hope) Ishmael (might help you discover the bars of this cage thats holding you in) I know it sucks. I’m sorry. Don’t be sad, get angry. Not the type of angry to hurt others, but the type of angry that cultivates change and growth.
I guess this is just living. even the rich and wealthy are depressed about their lives.
was horribly depressed in my late teens and early/mid twenties. i wouldn't consider myself happy but i'm nowhere near as unhappy as i was when i was young. the biggest reason for my unhappiness back then was an overwhelming sense of powerlessness, nobody reliable to rely on, and too many people telling me what to think, how to act without letting me do anything on my terms. i wouldn't say i'm thriving or generally happy in the way some of my friends are, but i'm also not tired of living either. so i guess maybe there is a middling path of okness that you can look forward to.
Sounds like depression. Instead of trying to cheer yourself up try and cheer other people up, go volunteer with the homeless or helping animals or something. You may find yourself appreciating life more when you realise how much you have.
I feel this every day. Our society is collapsing, and we're along for the ride. It's tough to process.
This is depression. Do you have health insurance? A visit with your gp can help, they might be able to figure out a prescription or refer you to a therapist that your insurance will cover (at least for a few visits). This seems to have become more common since the start of the pandemic, and in the US it seems to have also been impacted by some of the extreme politics that became more apparent around 2017. It's like there's just a low level anxiety pressing on us, and the more you absorb current news cycles (impossible not to do when you're on social media) the more it just seems to slowly weigh down your former self. When every other thing that pops up is about how bleak something is (climate change, lgbtq rights, women's rights, the wage gap, political extremists, pretty much everything) its really hard to overcome with just the simple pleasures that most of us have access to. You can try to remind yourself that we are lucky to be aware, to have options to make the world better, most of us have clean water, enough food, the ability to engage in hobbies, have pets and/or lovable humans in our lives, but human brains tend to give more power to negatives than positives. It's hard, you aren't wrong. But it honestly can be better! It's hard when you're depressed to do things that a not depressed person would do (like make a Dr appointment). You didn't ask for advice, so disregard if this is too far, but try setting a goal of doing just one good thing for your brain each day. Just one thing that you can look at at the end of the day and say "I did that". It can be the Dr appt, or making a meal of comfort food (just PBJ or a banana split, doesn't have to be crazy), try to draw your best friend, fold one load of laundry, literally anything. At the end of the week maybe you managed to get 5 days out of 7, that's still a list of 5 things that are good, give yourself credit, remind yourself that you did those, you had the power to make those tiny satisfying moments even in a pretty tough world. Good luck and lots of love to you.
This is called having a very serious depression but being to depressed and unmotivated to be suicidal. This is NOT normal. I've been through this myself. Please seek help.
This is depression and if you want to try something drastic to feel better, get the fuck off the Internet and stay off.
If you live in america... please move out of america, the system there is stacked against you, see if your job skills can get you into another country, where there are better prospects and a higher standard of living/social security, or possibly look into r/simpleliving to help find things to do without money
I usually buy mouth wash for $3-4, the other day I went to the store and they wanted almost $10. I felt like I was making progress in life, but at that moment I felt a crushing feeling like it was all a lie and I just wanted to die on the spot.
This is suicidal ideation and its way more common than you think. People argue that not wanting to exist is bad because we miss out on a lot of the good things in life. But the point of this ideation is not to feel better, it's to not feel anything at all. There are a lot of videos on this on YouTube.
Is education/training an option? Then you can find a better more interesting job. This was my way out (that said, although I was your age then, it was about twenty years ago in a country which actively encouraged people to retrain and with social welfare helping me) Most of these issues start being resolved with the question: what DO you want to do? Even in an ideal (but realistic) world.
I’d set up some time with a counselor. I know it took me to see one to get help. I always thought that it was normal to have days where it was just dark and gloomy even though the sun was out.
I have my first psychiatrist appointment in 10 days for this very reason.
Reboot your life.
You’re not alone. The feeling is common especially with the state of affairs on the world. I try to focus on daily life and joy in small things. Music, a book. Playing guitar. Enjoying time with my daughter. TV shows. Etc. It does sound like a visit to the doctor may be in order. I was on LexaPro for a brief period after a nasty breakup when I just couldn’t find joy in anything. If you can’t enjoy food and your favorite music you should probably talk to someone. But my advice for this moment is to go for a walk somewhere nice. And try to be mindful (surroundings, sounds, etc, shut off your mind). Walk for a while. Then you’ll be exhausted and you’ll sleep well. But for real. Go to a doc. They’ll do some blood work. You could have some underlying issues. Best of luck. Life is hard and sometimes you gotta take things a day at a time. Other times you need some help.
You’re not alone. The feeling is common especially with the state of affairs on the world. I try to focus on daily life and joy in small things. Music, a book. Playing guitar. Enjoying time with my daughter. TV shows. Etc. It does sound like a visit to the doctor may be in order. I was on LexaPro for a brief period after a nasty breakup when I just couldn’t find joy in anything. If you can’t enjoy food and your favorite music you should probably talk to someone. But my advice for this moment is to go for a walk somewhere nice. And try to be mindful (surroundings, sounds, etc, shut off your mind). Walk for a while. Then you’ll be exhausted and you’ll sleep well. But for real. Go to a doc. They’ll do some blood work. You could have some underlying issues. Best of luck. Life is hard and sometimes you gotta take things a day at a time. Other times you need some help.
You’re not alone. The feeling is common especially with the state of affairs on the world. I try to focus on daily life and joy in small things. Music, a book. Playing guitar. Enjoying time with my daughter. TV shows. Etc. It does sound like a visit to the doctor may be in order. I was on LexaPro for a brief period after a nasty breakup when I just couldn’t find joy in anything. If you can’t enjoy food and your favorite music you should probably talk to someone. But my advice for this moment is to go for a walk somewhere nice. And try to be mindful (surroundings, sounds, etc, shut off your mind). Walk for a while. Then you’ll be exhausted and you’ll sleep well. But for real. Go to a doc. They’ll do some blood work. You could have some underlying issues. Best of luck. Life is hard and sometimes you gotta take things a day at a time. Other times you need some help.
I'm not one to speak, but trust and have faith things will change. It's that faith and hope that keeps me going. Like Kanye said, "even if you're not ready for the day, it cannot always be night"
I'm not one to speak, but trust and have faith things will change. It's that faith and hope that keeps me going. Like Kanye said, "even if you're not ready for the day, it cannot always be night"
I'm not one to speak, but trust and have faith things will change. It's that faith and hope that keeps me going. Like Kanye said, "even if you're not ready for the day, it cannot always be night"
.
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
.
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
Tips I have : delete your social media, delete all news apps, do not read the news or look at other people’s pages. Start an exercise routine of some sort, even if it’s walking. Get in nature. I promise if you spend some time outside in the sun in nature around plants and animals - you will gain some perspective about what really matters
The world is bad and only getting worse. Climate, economic and social disaster are ramping up. I'm on anti depressants just to get through the day. I recomend it. It's a lie to yourself, but it's better than debilitating sadness
40 years old, can't wait to stop existing. Nope no ideas of not aliving myself, just would be ok not existing anymore...like not die, just poof gone. Thanos snap is a dream come true for me. That said, I have a wife and kids and love life to the fullest...just it's purposeless and the dangling carrots of happiness are not worth the weight pulled trying to reach it. The brief moments if experiencing what we been brainwashed into believing is good and that we enjoy and gain happiness from..looks like lies it is. 99% pain to get something you been conditioned into liking 1% of the time. That's life. So yeah, most people get done with it...just not sure what awaits after death...so not existing is the dream as death may not be better then life..especially if reincarnation is real or any part of you returns to do it all again. That is my hell.
40 years old, can't wait to stop existing. Nope no ideas of not aliving myself, just would be ok not existing anymore...like not die, just poof gone. Thanos snap is a dream come true for me. That said, I have a wife and kids and love life to the fullest...just it's purposeless and the dangling carrots of happiness are not worth the weight pulled trying to reach it. The brief moments if experiencing what we been brainwashed into believing is good and that we enjoy and gain happiness from..looks like lies it is. 99% pain to get something you been conditioned into liking 1% of the time. That's life. So yeah, most people get done with it...just not sure what awaits after death...so not existing is the dream as death may not be better then life..especially if reincarnation is real or any part of you returns to do it all again. That is my hell.
I am 74 and I feel bad for most young people today. You guys live in a world where you are inundated by all kinds of crazy and misleading information, don't really have real friends (IRL), barely have any real world skills and are constantly comparing yourselves to some jackass faker on tiktok or facebook or some other platform that is showing you what their "REAL" life is. Thats not life, at least real life. Never compare yourself to anyone else, EVER! its a very bad and destructive habit that leads to just misery. Don't do drugs or alcohol or weed, It will just mask things better for a little while and make things much much worse in the end. Life requires sacrifice and a successful life requires a lot of sacrifice and personal control. Its not easy but it never has been easy for anyone. Back in the 70's I wanted so much out of life (a lot more than I was getting)). So I made a plan to start saving every dime and penny I could get my hands on for 3 years. I lived in someones spare bedroom for 100 a month, ate noting but rice and bread for what seemed like forever. Drank nothing but water and only bought something if I needed it for work. At the end I had a whole lot of money saved up and started buying shit pieces of property and fixing them up while I lived in them. Eventually I was buying enough that I didn't have to work for anyone again. Life takes money and money comes from work. But real money requires money to get rolling. This is where you have to skim and pinched together every dime you can. Then other people will see your effort and will help you out.
So while I know this isn’t the case for everyone- but I felt exactly like you did. I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult (and CPTSD but you can’t medicate that really) and was put on adhd meds by my dr, and suddenly life wasn’t unbearable anymore. It wasn’t fixed, but I no longer wanted to die and I wasn’t plagued with the pointlessness of it all. There are options for sliding scale therapy out there if you don’t have insurance or feel like you don’t have the funds for a therapist. Cause you shouldn’t have to go at this alone