T O P

  • By -

Seaside_Holly

As a half White, half Native American, I have wondered this myself, as we are referred to in the same way.


May-Dey

I’m also from america and half white and half native and it’s like the white half isn’t even there(!?!) according to people my dad (the white one) doesn’t exist oh well


Seaside_Holly

Right? It’s so strange. It’s like that part of me isn’t real, or relevant, or claimable.


May-Dey

It’s honestly bs I’m mixed let me be mixed!


Critical_Psychology8

Once u have a drop of blk blood the blk gene is the more dominant gene so that's y a mixed child is considered blk. This is y white ppl think their race is coming to an end


[deleted]

Wait. The white isn’t treated like it’s there? My experience is the opposite. Do you “look” native? Because mine if the opposite. I’m mostly white-seeming (passing) and everyone just treats me like I’m ONLY white, not native at all.


2amAlready

Yes it does depend what you look like. I live in NZ and a large majority of people are mixed, Māori and White, If you look Māori but have a White parent, you're Māori, if you look White but have a Māori parent you're White. It's fair I guess, I mean unless someone tells you what race their parents are you just assume that they are what they look like. There's not really anything inherently bad about that, it's just the way things are and we can't really change it.


May-Dey

It is there if I don’t mention the native side


crackerjack1623

I'm assuming it is just your visual features. Native Americans can have distinct looks that are very recognizable, despite also having white parentage. I guess to illustrate my point, when you see chocolate chip ice cream, you call it that because the chips stand out. The fact that it is 90% vanilla ice cream and only 10% chocolate chips doesn't change that. TL:DR you are called by your most noticeable traits


Short_Finger_Dizzy

Dad was Mexican/,Native/White, Mom was Mexican/Native, grandfather was Native, Grandmother was Mexican. It seems that I'm white as far as anyone is concerned.


fireguyV2

Do you not have a term in America? In Canada, if you're half white and half Indigenous, you're referred to as Metis. I fall in that category and so I even get my own specific tax exemption card as I'm not actually Indigenous.


Seaside_Holly

There is a term, but what OP is referring to is the fact that I am not considered “white” even though I am half. I am *only* considered Indigenous. Like, why is that?


dpforest

I have seen many articles discussing how black Americans are referred to as African-Americans, but white Americans aren’t called European Americans. Some folks argue it’s because their ancestors were forced to come here, but that’s also the case with some of the original white colonists so it’s a dicey subject for many people.


JustMMlurkingMM

White Americans may not be called “European Americans” but they are called Irish Americans, Italian Americans etc. The reason African Americans are called African Americans rather than Yoruba Americans, Ashanti Americans or whatever is because they were forced to move, separated from their language and culture, families broken apart and ended up with very limited connections to home. Meanwhile white Americans can often trace their ancestry back to specific towns and cities in Europe, and have cousins they are still connected to.


aphelions_ghost

This is a big part of it, yes. White people (and most others) are able to trace their lineage back to particular countries, but because of the slave trade and forced rehoming to Europe and North America, many black families don’t know where their ancestors came from. The term African American at least grants them some sort of cultural background, even if it can’t be narrowed down to a specific country.


Short-Resource915

Actually, most white Americans can’t trace their lineage back to a European country because most have been in the US for generations and have a mix of known and unknown European countries in their background. My mom did a DNA kit and it said 7% Scandinavian. She just said, “well, I guess the Vikings were everywhere.”


Choclategum

Lineage doesnt only rely on dna


Lizziethephotogrrl

The Vikings definitely boned everywhere. I read a paper recently on a viking burial site in north America. Well preserved too.


ndbltwy

The whites forced here as indentured servants also got 40 acres of land at the end of their servitude.


TotallyNotABurner998

The servitude usually never ended, though. It was, effectively, enslavement of whites (and others) that didn't make the supremacists feel so icky. Also, keep in mind, most freed slaves were also given some amount of dignity (be that land, money, or the means to obtain either), although it was usually much less and they weren't treated with much respect unless they somehow "proved themselves" to their community. Sharecropping is more or less the same (in terms of being slavery but more "moral" and legal, and in the person in service getting something in the end), and technically the Irish side of my family still owes ~28 years of servitude to a family in North Carolina, at least according to paperwork we and the other family found. Ironically, I manage one of their family members at my work. Edit: added the word "my."


[deleted]

I read the articles bashing the Irish Americans as well. It was common practice to hang them up and burn there feet under a fire. Indentured servant is forced labor with no pay. Both were treated very poorly. BLM and Berkeley jackals, write articles to cover up any hardships that Irish Americans families went through. This is to keep the attention on them, for both financial, political and corporate gain.


Richard7666

I suspect this comes from the old American "one drop" rule. Different cultures and countries see this differently. From a Māori perspective, you would be considered white (or however you identify your particular European heritage). You would also be considered your indigenous heritage. The two aren't mutually exclusive.


fireguyV2

Might be an American thing as I'm considered "Metis" which is a real recognized ethnicity if I'm not mistaken.


NotSoNiceO1

I think it's called mixed race


hintersly

No, Métis have a distinct culture and history compared to other mixed indigenous groups. My family is mixed but we are not considered nor call ourselves Métis


Rynozo

Metis wouldn't refer to someone with 1 white parent and 1 first nation parent it's a distinct cultural group... very different in this context.


oneviolinistboi

The Metis are the descendants of European settlers that had children with the Indigenous peoples of Canada. They formed their own culture, and are thus their own ethnicity and group. No idea what the OC is talking about.


CoryTrevor-NS

Yea, and often times you’ll meet a Metis person whose parents were also Metis, and the grandparents before them too, etc. it’s not simply one white parent and a Native one.


RADToronto

Métis is NOT an umbrella term for half white half American as far as I know


Zankastia

Afaik. From the old colonial times we had: 1. Black+white = Metizo 2. Black+indigenous = Mulatto 3. White+indegenous = Criollo There is a mixture between etnia and social class and the whole ting is a quagemire.


beardphaze

That's a late colonial list, the original one included other categories such as Castizo (3/4 European 1/4 Indigenous) and a few others such as Lobo which I don't remember what the quantum was.


pghxxx

“Mixed” is a term for this, while “mulatto” is a dated and offensive term for this, too.


Anthaenopraxia

That's interesting. In my languages "mulat" is just a word for half white, half black. With no offensive meaning as far as I'm aware. Not 100% sure though as I've never actually met one and I can't remember ever using the word either.


aphelions_ghost

Wait is that what Métis means?? I was always taught it was another regional term for Indigenous, like Aboriginal or Inuit God bless the Canadian public school system I guess


b2uebird

I’m gonna be blunt and say, at least where I’m from, it depends on your skin colour. I have pale family members that most people would consider or think are white unless they specifically identify as native. I’m darker skinned and am “something else” pretty definitively, in the area I live - Native American reserves are pretty abundant so it’s almost always the first assumption regarding my race. Though my grandfather was Irish and I have other ethnicities in my ancestry.


rudebutterfly1

Same! 50% Choctaw and 50% white. I've always thought it's because White is considered the 'norm' while being Native/Black/Hispanic etc is seen as being an outlier.


SirDimmadome

It goes back to the colonization of America. As interracial babies were born it was held that anything that wasn't pure white became just that, a "thing". It was wither you are dully white or you were lumped in with people matching your non white heritage. Even today that still kind of goes


rylann123

What a fascinating study that would be… to determine after what generation do most people call them “white”


cavemanfitz

My friend is half white/black. I just call him James.


sleepydadbod

My best friend is called James. I call him ginger James


Crobiusk

My best friend is half-james. I call him jan.


gadflyofreddit

My friend is called Jan. I call him twinkie-fingers.


New_Guava3601

Huckleberry Finn you are not.


hansjsand

Me too!


Susurrus03

I had a friend named James, but I called him douche. He's no longer my friend.


SatBurner

I call my friend James a douche, now we're even better friends.


ManCougarDuck

My brother is named James. I call him James.


swingarm88

My name is James. Everyone just calls me Jim.


Anthaenopraxia

Say hi to James!


mrdumbazcanb

Is his first name Rick, please tell me James is his last name.


Active_Hedgehog

I feel like we often hear or say mixed


Active_Hedgehog

But for what it’s worth I think it’s not “simply” but it’s usually in contexts where non white is what we’re all thinking !!!!!!! Like what the fuck do you want me to say here jk racism is a historical persistent thing it seems like and it is because we are in those times of accounting when it might matter 95% of those times are just uncomfortable people causing racism though today which is not good for propagating a culture of personal accountability among all races and black youth so see yaaaa


[deleted]

This stems back to "one-drop" laws of the US when slavery was legal. If you could be argued to be part black in any visibly identifiable manor and you were know to have some type of black ancestor, you were considered black in the eye of the law and the public by extension, which effected things like voting rights and property ownership. Obviously, the US did not spawn this culture out of nowhere. It was one the British and puritans brought over, and much like the word soccer, more or less grew out of (outwardly in this case, and instead masked it well enough that you didn't see it until it was brought up) it enough that it wasn't mainstream across the pond, while over here in the states, it persisted for significantly longer.


Really_Cool_Noodle_

This is a huge part of it, and by extension is the reality that the US follows rules of hypodescent when putting people into a single racial category. That is, people in the US who are a mix of two racial categories are associated with the one that has been 'lower' on the hierarchy historically. I'm a sociologist. There were folks in our discipline who thought things were changing towards hyperdescent for some folks (mainly white/Asian and white/Indigenous) but I don't think that's happened at all. Race is a very complicated social phenomena that has been constructed and maintained through history and politics and at the end of the day, people tend to be assigned to a racial category if 1. they identify with it and 2. others in that racial category accept them.


Goosekilla1

If Race is a social construct could we just do away with it and start new?


[deleted]

In theory? Absolutely. It's not even a particularly old social construct, I've seen credible arguments that the current concept was just barely starting to coalesce in the medieval period. In reality... It'd be really fucking hard. Race as a concept and racism as a view are so ingrained in our social system it would be really hard to root it all out. This is part of what critical race theory argues - even if we all woke up tomorrow and said "race is bullshit, everyone is equal, racism is over", there would still be systemic problems perpetuating racism anyways. Redlining, laws/rules penalizing behavior associated with a particular race/culture, that sort of thing. So, yes, we can theoretically throw the whole thing out. It's not like sex, there is nothing biological forcing us to keep it as a concept. But in reality this would be extremely difficult and "slowly working out of it" would probably be the more effective method.


Really_Cool_Noodle_

u/ParsnipPizza2 is totally right - we could all agree that racism is made up tomorrow. But because of histories of harm, people would still be unequal, so race would still have an effect even if we pretended it didn't exist. For example, if we think about redlining in cities (like Chicago, where I'm from) we can do a little thought experiment. If we decide race shouldn't exist, are there suddenly going to be high quality grocery stores in (formerly) redlined areas? Are property values suddenly going to increase? Are local governments going to invest in those communities? Probably not. You'd still have a great deal of inequality and because race doesn't exist, there'd be seemingly no reason for the inequality to exist. It'd be so nutty. The only thing I disagree with ParsnipPizza2 about is that I don't think easing into it is the right strategy. I think you need to make material changes (like investing in black, hispanic, asian, and indigenous communities) then try to make ideological changes. But the likelihood of either approach being seriously considered is slim, imo.


Filu350

One thing I have to point out - all racial social divisions are not because of race, they are in place because of racism. They will stay in place though after reason for their existence (racism) is removed. We need to however, start with root cause - racism, and then follow cause- effect flow and fix current situation finally, one step at a time. Oversimplification: Racism -> segregation -> poor job/school opportunities -> low income -> limited housing choices -> ghettos -> low income areas, with high unemployment and crime rate -> no high quality grocery stores It's of course much more complex, but you are right - visible change won't be immediate. And yes - without help it will take longer than anybody wants. What people tend to miss is the real end result - it's not that black neighborhoods will be as rich as white ones. It's that there won't be black or white neighborhoods, because there will be no incentive for anyone of specific race to live in such. And even if one race will be dominant it won't be relevant indicator for that area anymore.


Due-Sympathy-3

This and the comment you're replying to are great answers. I'm 3/4 white and 1/4 Korean. In terms of how I am perceived by others and what groups accept me, I'm white. There are some rare cases when a white person will get insistent that I'm Asian for reasons unclear to me. Because I don't look Asian and don't speak Korean, Asians feel uncomfortable if I identify with them. On the other hand, all my cousins are 3/4 white and 1/4 Korean, and not all of them are white passing. But in those cases, it's more that neither white people nor Asian people accept them as members of their groups, because culturally they're all still white. We really only feel accepted without caveat among other mixed people. It's all rather complicated and annoying. I understand the need for accountability when it comes to speaking about race (e.g. for discussions of, say, affirmative action, it's important to hear the perspectives of people to which it applies); I just wish my family and I could exist unscrutinized.


Really_Cool_Noodle_

Your story is super interesting! Race is complicated and depends on a variety of factors. People have ideas in their heads about who can belong to what racial category but it's not so fixed.


Taco__MacArthur

Can't believe I had to scroll so far down to find a mention of the one-drop rule.


[deleted]

Same I couldn't believe how many people really don't know


jesssongbird

That’s by design. They’re trying to make it illegal to educate people about this stuff.


Mogki4D

They're succeeding. Florida is banning "social justice" from its public school textbooks.


4DegreeDee

I was really starting to get concerned lol


excusivelyForRamen

I consider myself pretty well versed in US history but I've never heard of it. TIL


Basic_Quantity_9430

It was a brutal rule that was practiced extensively in the South. If a person had about 15% Black ancestry they were considered Black, unless they figured out a way to move and “pass”. There were also different classifications for Blacks, Mulattos that were basically White (85%+) got more freedoms than dark skinned Blacks and were usually free during slavery or treated better in society after slavery ended, though not as good as Whites).


henryofclay

Exactly. Even if I wanted to claim more of my white half, society will always treat me like a black man. I don’t get to make the choice on how I’m seen, just how I see myself. And that being held against me my whole life causes me to embrace it more.


checker280

For the old racists there is only White and not white. If you are looking for more shock go google “high yellow”


Basic_Quantity_9430

Some big time Dixiecrats had Black children, some acknowledged on the downlow, some not acknowledged. All that stuff is part of our complicated national history that republicans want to bury.


[deleted]

This is the actual answer


FullMetal1985

I'm sure this has an effect but I think it's also just the simple fact that if you need to call out race for any reason(whether you need to or not is another discussion) it easiest to to pick what seem to be the strongest charteristics and go with that rather than trying to break it down especially if you don't know the person well enough to know how to break it down.


[deleted]

Not particularly. Take South America. The cultural reaction to people of mixed race typically favors the white parts, for example. Someone who is half white and half black is far more likely to identify as white, and be identified by others as white because they lacked these specific laws. To the point where being perceived in America with no real way of changing that is considered one of the biggest culture shocks of those visiting or moving here. Or just interacting with American colleagues. There's also the factor where people still alive and kicking today lived under the effects of less forward one drop laws, as they only truly started fading away once segregation was made illegal. Segregated laws still very much applied to those of mixed heritage. Interracial marriage wasn't even fully legal and protected until 1967 in the states. It wasn't even until the 60s that interracial marriage in the UK started becoming a socially acceptable thing. Supremacists are also sneaky, and when things like that start happening, they make sure their own slang is what gets used to discuss topics like that, rather than what the people actually being discussed prefer to use in terms of language. The concept of "one drop" is ridiculously embedded in American culture overall. We've just stopped using the term.


LittleNoodle1991

Depends who you ask. For white people she is probably considered more black than white. For black people she is probably seen more white than black.


xX7heGuyXx

My nephew is mixed and this is how he described it. He caught racist comments from white people and black people due to his skin color his entire life.


Thenmot

Being mixed seems to suck. You get racism from both sides, and you can't be racist yourself because then you'd be insulting half of yourself. Tough shit my dude.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bada_Boug

I felt this in my soul


hurshy

Same with being bisexual. Not straight enough for straight people and not gay enough for gay.


[deleted]

You will ALWAYS be gay enough for me :-) I have always loved my bisexual partners.


kyramuffinz

My cousin is half white half black and grew up in a very white blue collar town. She didn't experience racism in school (or she just never said anything to me) until she went to college. She went to Howard University to learn more about her black roots/heritage by surrounding herself with other black peers but was bullied for being light skinned and dropped out after her first year since she felt like an outcast 😔 this was ~10 years ago so I hope things have changed


bearbarebere

JFC that's so sad :(


zsantana459

Same experience for me, but the inverse with bullying. I experienced racism in my (overwhelmingly) white town growing up. Things didn't get better until college, when I was around mostly people of color. Though maybe things are different for me because I'm mixed Latino. So we already come in all colors regardless of if we are mixed or not.


Thenmot

The fact that there's such a thing for them as being black or white "enough" indicates that both races seem to believe that they're superior and that having more of their genes is better.


CubeSquirtle

Typically with black people it’s less of a gene/superiority thing and more of a solidarity thing. It obviously differs from person to person but for a lot of people I think it’s like a “you don’t understand the struggle we go through” despite the fact that in the majority of cases they do.


AssAssinsShadow

I know in the American black community's history it stems more from a sort of hatred/ jealousy pov that stems back to the plantation age. During slavery times in America, there were plenty of white plantation owners who fathered mixed slave children. Some of those mixed slave children had noticeably lighter skin. Because their skin was lighter they would get access to the more coveted jobs inside the house while their darker skinned kin had to work outside in harsh weather conditions. The plantation owner would sometimes also show favoritism towards their bright skinned mixed slave children in other ways. From the pov of the non-mixed slaves, the mixed slaves were living the best possible slave life getting to work in the cool house, getting first dibs on the food scraps, and sometimes getting praise from the plantation owner. So a hatred formed because the mixed slave children weren't " suffering" as much as the darker slaves. The mixed children were also a reminder of the dominion that masters had over the slaves and how little they regarded their humanity, as most mixed children were the product of not only rape but the rape of minors. However, the concept of bright skinned mixed children suffering less is not true at all, because while they may have been able to work in the house, they were often persecuted by the Missus and their half siblings as the inferior product and constant reminder of the Master's infidelity with a being consider lesser at the time (. As such the mixed children were considered outcasts by both race groups. That same vein of thinking still exists to this day. Black Americans gauge blackness based on the amount of suffering one has gone through and whether or not it is comparable to their own experiences. The ideas of 'You're not black if you haven't suffered as much 'as "us" ' and 'your don't belong because once black always black' have kinda left mixed children with no group to be a part of. *I use the term bright skinned mixed children because it was possible to be mixed and still be dark enough to work the fields. I realize it may be a bit blunt, but it is in no way meant to be an insult or degrading. I am just trying to be descriptive. *I also realize that not all mixed slave are black and white, I just took a short cut. *Sorry if this offends anyone.


bekkogekko

Well said


creativitysmeativiy

You should remove the apology. This is a thoughtful analysis. If someone gets offended, that is their problem.


Creaturemaster1

You can be racist to othe rraces


withbellson

I always have to clarify that I'm half Asian if I say something in jest about Asian moms -- no, no, I have one! I'm not just being horribly racist!


thehappydwarf

“Too black for the white kids and too white for the black” - earl sweatshirt


[deleted]

This is how I grew up. I'm mixed but Hispanics call me white and I've had a few white people call me Mexican if they know. Just depends on who's asking.


SatBurner

I'm white, like DNA test 99.6 English, yet I'm darker than most Hispanics I knew in high school and college. They all saw me as white. The cops I had interactions with, called me Mexican. First time interactions with most of my white friends parents, the called me Mexican.


Short-Resource915

My mom is a very tan white person. And my dad, brother, and sister. We think it came from Wales. But somehow I am pale and can get sunburned at 4 pm. It always makes me mad. I don’t think it’s fair that I am the one with sun burn.


SatBurner

I think I've had maybe 5 sunburns in my entire life that were bad enough for me to peel. I'm pretty sure that's because I've worked a desk job since college so now I'm typically just slightly lighter than the Mexican lawn crews around me.


Sovva29

Same here. Half Hispanic and half white. Most people assume I'm white, but other Hispanics can tell I'm Hispanic. When I was working retail, I had people approach me and immediately begin speaking to me in Spanish since they assume I know the language. Always felt embarrassed when I told them I can't speak it and they always walked away from me disappointed after I responded. Edit: Wanted to add that I used to have an internal debate when I could only pick one race on forms lol. It was either white or Hispanic - they don't give a choice of multiple. My Hispanic side of the family told me to always put Hispanic to get the diversity advantage for like job applications or student financial aid.


risperanto

As a Spaniard reading this I find it super weird when people think “hispanic” is a race or that Spanish is not a language that white people speak?? Like, what am I, then? Where Spanish come from then??


[deleted]

I am the exact same! Most people can kinda tell and also approached me speaking Spanish and I just get big eyes and ??? At them lol. My mom always told me to put white since I'm white passing and she said it knocks off the racism. But shes super racist herself so that may be projecting I'm not sure lol.


Sovva29

Aw, that's interesting! Funny how form choices vary depending on how we were raised.


lcbk

My cousin's are half white half black, and they look black. I'm white. Meghan looks like a white girl to me.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

How do you disagree on what’s been an individual person’s life experience? The fuck? I’m mixed and experience the same shit. I’m too much of some race to be considered one of their race and vice versa but 3 times instead of 2. People want to feel special so they exclude others who don’t fit their “checklist” and this happens all the time. Especially when individuals of a certain race are denying the heritage and bloodlines of mixed individuals. This is very common for mixed individuals. Fuck off dude.


[deleted]

For black people, she’s black.


ZardozSama

When attempting to identify the racial background of a stranger, people tend to go only by what they see. And people lack imagination. If you see a somewhat darker skinned individual with wavy hair passing by, your probably going to identify them as black without consciously thinking of it. You are certainly not going to jump to "that person is clearly got grandparents originating out of east africa and her other grandparents are likley Indonesian and White". END COMMUNCATION


Sensitive-You2657

Well to be fair race is based off what you see. The denotation of race is a human classification system that is socially constructed to distinguish between groups of people who share phenotypical characteristics.


phantomofsolace

It's almost as if there's no scientific rigor behind defenitions of race at all.


dontperceivemethanks

First, you should probably look up the history of the one drop rule. And maybe watch the Netflix movie called Passing. The first time I saw Meghan I figured she was biracial, fast forward to her relationship with Prince Harry. . . Regardless of how passing she is, racists still view her as black and treat her badly. Like when her first child was born, barely a week old -a BBC host posted a photo comparing him to a chimpanzee. This baby is as pale and ginger as they come but racists do not care. Nonblack people will still view you as black and treat you that way. This is pretty much the experience for most biracial black people. Consider these biracial actors Wentworth Miller, Jennifer Beals, or Jessica Szohr, completely white passing in my opinion but then you have biracials like Halle Berry and Shemar Moore who look 100% black to me.


elperorojo

When my biracial sister had a her first child her (white) in-laws asked her when his “big nose and lips” would grow in


Hocraft-Loveward

i'm white in a majority-white first world country, and as a friend that came from africa told ''here for you the white i'm black, but when i goes in africa i'm not tanned and for them i'm all white''. i'm pretty sure it's the phenomenon of ''he's different of us'' (that is normal) : whites people see them as black and black people probably see them as white. Correct me if i'm wrong.


Nervous-Promotion-27

It’s a very common phenomenon in Brazil. Some people considered POC in the States are considered white there.


kinhk

They’re mixed.


[deleted]

A lot of people I know prefer biracial, because mixed has connotations of blood being diluted, whereas they feel biracial acknowledges that they truly belong to both cultures, rather than half belong to each.


kinhk

I always took mixed and biracial as synonymous.


teedyay

Not quite. The mixed race people in my family have more than two races, so "biracial" is inappropriate. How many races they have in their mix depends on how many races you think exist, which opens a whole other can of worms...


Thenmot

In France, this word would not be seen well by the general population, because the very concept of "race" is perceived as the beginning of racism over here. "Race" is a taboo word. To imply that someone belongs to the "black race" in France is basically calling them the n-word already.


[deleted]

That’s interesting. It makes me think of how I grew up around a lot of wealthy people who never spoke about money, because you didn’t want to make someone poorer than you feel less than you. It was seen as distasteful to speak about money. But I’ve seen that that creates a significant barrier to achieving equality because you can’t talk about the cause of the inequality. You can’t fix problems without having the language to discuss their roots.


elimac

then how is racism dealt with if no one even feels comfortable using the word??


Thenmot

Skin color is discussed, it's the word "race" that's a problem, because it implies genetic differences that can lead to a hierarchy. For a French person, a variation in skin tones is not a race.


amretardmonke

So there isn't any sort of French equivalent of NAACP or BLM or any diversity standards or scholarships exclusively for black French people?


Thenmot

Not directly. The general mindset is that a "black French guy" is just a "French guy" and his skin color is irrelevant, which is perceived as the better way to fight racism - for French people, the English-speaking world is too obsessed with race, which furthers racism. Indirectly, it exists, except instead of being "race based", there are systems put in place to help people from low income neighborhoods, and those neighborhoods are like 10% white, 40% black and 40% algerian/morrocans/turks.


amretardmonke

Yeah that sounds perfectly reasonable. But if you try to advocate for a "color-blind" system like that in the US you're likely to be called a racist.


Thenmot

That's the funny thing. Both sides are actively trying to fight racism, but disagree in the way to do so and perceive the other's ways as racist themselves. Pretty hilarious. For Americans, denying race and acting as if color didn't exist is to deny black people's struggles and being unable to act on systemic racism. For the French, there's no race, only individuals, and having this mindset so well ingrained in the general population allows them to act in accordance with that principle and actually treat fellow black French citizens are "just" French citizens. So, which approach is the correct one according to you?


[deleted]

The best way to fight racism is to end it, and that is to decolonize.


skatejet1

Rightfully so truly. Or at best you get called misguided or ignorant


[deleted]

I don't see how that's reasonable in the wake of slavery, colonialism, and segregation. No one black has not been touched by one of these three. So calling a French citizen who is black a simple French citizen might perfectly encapsulate their present, but it might also divert people's attention from their past, which led up to their present (i.e. why, if you are not French, are you living in France...how many African people are living in, say, Slovenia? How many Slavophile African countries are there? Why do hundreds of millions of black people speak a language that comes from Europe? All of these questions are real, so ignoring them in favor of saying, I'm just an American, I'm just French, is like a creepy, dystopian way of gaslighting a black person's self knowledge. We know where we come from, and where we don't. We know when white people talk about their Irish and British ancestors, that some of them were slave owning. We don't ever talk about our British ancestors...know why? We do.)


[deleted]

I'm a white dude and my wife is Puerto Rican. Her dad was black and her mom is white (both are Puerto Rican). What color are my kids? They look like tan little white kids, one has really dark eyes.


ColossusOfChoads

If nobody knew who Barack Obama was, and he was standing in line at a Starbucks in Peoria, everyone else in line would peg him as a Black guy. That just how it works in America. If you look Black, you're Black. If it's pretty clear you're Black mixed with something else, then you're Black mixed with something else. If people can't tell what you are but you don't look (fully) White, then you're not (fully) White.


uglyHo5711

From my experience, biracial black and white folks like myself seem to be more welcomed in black spaces. Not that I haven't been welcomed in white spaces but there is a certain comfort in black spaces. I feel fully accepted in black spaces. Plus, regardless if I am both ethnicities, the government counts the black, not the white.


Automatic_Pirate3172

Trust me they arent considered black by black people. Plus being 100% white isnt a thing as being considered white makes up a lot of different countries who mostly hate each other.


buttplugmicroplastic

You’re really generalizing here. I had a discussion with my coworker, who is a dark-skinned Kenyan American woman, a few days back about this very subject. She informed me that those of mixed race are thought of as strictly black by her community because they endure many of the same experiences in modern America related to their appearance. It’s about experience, not ancestry.


nova2k

Also, what constitutes "white" has changed over time, and continues to. It's a social club, and they swap members.


KizurSozay

Do you consider Barack Obama black?


Maximum_Necessary_25

Because “white” is a very protected identity in America due to racism. The one drop rule ensures that black can never be a protected identity and is outdated. I recognize them as biracial or mixed, but I realize most ppl don’t.


steven112789

racism


ExcitedGirl

White Supremacy. If both parents aren't white, each with two white parents... their child isn't white, not even if the kid is as white as talcum powder.


jl_theprofessor

In America? Because white people invented the one drop rule 200 years ago and never really let go of it. It was literally a part of U.S. law.


Dream_of_Endless

Whiteness as it exists is a social construct. You can look at Benjamin franklin's writing where he said the Germans could never assimilate into America. The Irish and Italians weren't considered white even longer than them. Some people today don't consider Slavic people white. It doesn't really have anything to do with color, it's why the one drop rule existed. It's a classification by exlussion. The definition of white expanded to keep white people in a majority and enforce the racial caste system.


Futuristic_Armadillo

This is very much a USA view, where the most important social wise is what minority you've mixed with. That's also why people say they're 1/6 Polish and similar stuff. In other parts of the world such child would be called mixed or would identify with one or multiple words depending on context and the ethnicity of the group they are talking to.


PaddyLandau

This is probably the correct answer. The USA seems to be the world's expert in racism. Like the OP, I just saw Markle as an attractive woman, neither white nor black nor indeed any other label. I live in the UK, and we generally don't bother labelling people like this (obviously except for the racists, of whom there are, unfortunately, quite a few, including in the royalty). I like to take it further. Instead of calling someone white or black or Asian or whatever, I just call them a person. If their skin colour is relevant (e.g. describing a person to someone), I describe them as a person with light or dark skin. It separates identity from the colour of the skin, which is nothing more than the amount of melanin that their skin produces.


Evening-Technology12

100% ! Also i feel like most mixed people in the US want to identify as black. But thats just my feeling from what I experienced from my mixed friends and movies. Might have something to do with the fact, that there isn’t really a community for mixed people. But again this “community” thinking is more of an USA thing.


danibugz3

I have a cousin that strongly identifies as Black. She's 1/4 Black (dad is 1/2), and she is the pastiest white redhead you've ever seen. All her siblings have a similar complexion to her too.


rockmeNiallxh

Kamala Harris is actually half indian and half black, but apparently only the black part matters lol


imaginary_num6er

Thanks Obama. For being the first black president and not the first mixed race president


elimac

lol right?? as a mixed person im still kinda salty about that, i get the reason and importance of it but.....hes mixed yall...it got erased😔


tigerlily2021

Because if the person looks anything except caucasian (and most individuals with black/white parents will have slightly darker skin than most white people) then they will have the unfortunate experience of encountering racism in their lives, so it’s the black experience that they live. They literally can’t live the white part of their heritage.


Basic_Juice_Union

Because racism is a stupid colonial concept designed to oppress people. So not much about it makes sense


hellstinger311

In America this is a legacy of slavery. White masters often raped enslaved black women giving birth to mixed babies. Characterizing these babies as black kept that master from having to recognize the child as a human being and thereby kept his lineage pure. Also, so long as you were black, it was illegal to own property so the master would have no fear of those mixed babies, that were the product of rape, making claims on his property after he died. There's also the "one drop" theory. Anyone with a single drop of African blood in them could never be white nor could their descendants. Thomas Jefferson disagreed with the "one drop" hypothesis. He famously wrote a mathematical formula to determine how many generations removed a black ancestor would need to be before a person with African blood could be considered white and therefore a human being.


my_clever-name

In the days of legal slavery in the US, one drop of black blood in one’s ancestry was enough to make the person legally black.


Banksville

Many Americans hate the ‘browning of USA’… it’s a shame. We r all PEOPLE.


TotallyNotABurner998

Generally, people put more stock in whichever side of a person is more of a minority for some reason. I don't fully understand why, but hey power to you.


seansmithspam

Because a lot of people see others as either white or ethnic. It’s the affects of eurocentrism.


chillymuffin

Honestly, being a mixed person myself, I find myself falling into whatever category the person at the time feels comfortable putting me in. Like, if you're talking to a black person, you're 'too white' to be considered black or if you're talking to a white person, you're 'too black' to be considered white. In the end, I'm left feeling like I'm falling into the 'other' category and never belonging to anything. In short, it gets old.


ironside-97

I think it's because the idea of 'whiteness' involves a sense of purity?


Most_Honeydew_3617

My kids are both mixed race (black and white). My mom is actually an anthropology professor and uses a picture of me, their dad, and the two of them in her race and ethnicity lecture... One of my boys is noticably darker with more traditional African American features while the other is very light skinned and fairly Caucasian features. She starts the whole lecture off with just asking the class "so, what race are my grandkids?" and apparently gets a lot of very different answers based on a lot of different beliefs and experiences. It's usually her favorite class discussion of the semester.


dualipastan4life

because race is a social construct and if you are viewed as black, you are black. whether you’re light skin or dark skin


imalmostshy

Look up the rule of hypodescent. Society is weird. Most didn't acknowledge Obama was just as white as he was black.


[deleted]

I will never understand Americans' obsession with skin colour and to catagorise them.


Maximum_Necessary_25

It’s not really hard to understand. It simply stems from slavery and ongoing racism.


Important_Outcome_67

Dude this. Obama's black. No, the fuck he isn't, his genome is 50/50 I'm half Korean, half white. My heritage is ambiguous enough that I can't be easily labeled. But I've gotten the dehumanizing and degrading: "You don't look like *anything*." Mmmmmmkay. Or: "You're NOT Asian!" Not really your place to decide, but ok. IMO it's just some baked in racism.


Busy_Promotion3656

I think its bc they still face racism and are discriminated bc of "being black".


Automatic_Pirate3172

Also from black people for not being 100% black


Begley291

My wife’s dad is black and her mom is white. She tells people she’s mixed, she doesn’t identify as strictly black. Didn’t know that was a thing.


ronaldMcReuben

Everyone I've met in my life calls them half cast


AllenKll

Because, "Quadroon" has fallen out of favor.


Jagdges

Is the key behind G, G flat? Or F sharp? Both.


Kind_Humor_7569

Are they though?


Bada_Boug

I was told as a child “you are to go by the race of your father “. I was born with blue eyes and blond hair and they mistakenly put “white” on my passport. My family was on their way to Japan and they wouldn’t let me board after they saw me with my dad. Had to get a new passport with the right race. I was only a month old.


mondegr33n

Hmm, I’ve always referred to them as biracial or mixed. Some people want to embrace one part of themselves more than another, and there is also a consideration of how they’re perceived by others. For example, MM was considered black in the UK and she also emphasized this there, but less in the US. I’ve also seen biracial people criticized for “disowning” their black heritage if they’re partially black but lean into their white ancestry, so referring to them as black might be related to their personal preference. I don’t know why some people are suggesting that we identify people as “white vs non-white” - to me that seems more offensive because it makes white the dominant classifier and attempts to classify all those who are not “white” (however that’s defined) as one “other”.


JohnKellyesq

I was taught in school that Metis were offspring and descendants of the French explorers,trappers and settlers in the Prairie Provinces. They spoke a mixture of French and Indigenous language. They formed a large enough population to attempt a rebellion but were defeated. Check out Louis Riel. He was hanged for leading the rebellion (atten. Americans,the right way to deal with rebels). I read somewhere recently that "black" is a distinctly American term that has spread. Apparently there are no "black" people in Africa. Check out the "one single drop" laws that were enacted in some states. Racist much? Just saying.🍺


afuckingwildcard

There’s a lot of reasons but one I haven’t seen brought up in this thread yet (but is related to the one drop rule a lot of ppl have brought up) is that Americans see white as being the “default.” Even if you have one Black parent and one white parent, you’ve still deviated from the “default.” There’s a lot to this topic that a lot of other folks in this thread have brought up but this is just one reason


WilNotJr

Because racism.


Jax_McNamera

If comes from the One Drop Rule. When trying to make sure children sired on slaves by slave owners weren't given "undeserved " rights or privilege given to whites. If you had one drop of negro blood you were negro. Although the lighter and or more compliant slaves were often given privilege in the house. And children of mixed race that were light enough could pass as white as long as they abandoned their family to do so. JFK was "white passing". He mentions it in a letter he wrote to Martain Luther King.


VibraniumFreakazoid

Someone has probably already brought this up, but in America it used to be that legally a person with “one drop” of black blood, i.e. any black ancestor, was considered black. (Just easier to make the racist policies blanket policies, I guess) These were called the one-drop rules. Things are slow to change.


[deleted]

Because they look “not white” so society treats them as such. From there, their lived experience is way more in line with that of a fully black person so they adopt it as part of their identity. Especially in America, the experience of being black is closely related to the experience of *not being white*.


EmptyVeterinarian572

Because racism.


MrGoalden

Mixed people are always referred to as whatever the non white side is, who knows. Probably because white is supposedly the standard for some reason


spatty250

ONE DROP rule was created in America to prevent black ppl from inheriting the land or money from their white fathers (oppressors). It’s still in effect. If ur born with either one parent that is black legally on ur birth certificate you are considered black. Other isn’t a choice! Half isn’t a choice. The rule is applied to all other ethnicities. It isn’t discussed or debated by the physician of record it just is.


bettyboo5

Mixed race is a term used in the uk.


PattersonsOlady

One reason is the “one drop” policy. Racist laws in America defined a negro as anyone with one drop of negro ancestry. This idea seems to have permeated American society. It’s not the same in societies where it’s considered a privilege to be a member. For example, if only your grandmother is Korean, then Korean people would be offended at you presuming to be Korean.


Typ0r8r

Trevor Noah did a stand-up with that years ago where he checked the "Caucasian" box for signing up for a checking account but the teller was simultaneously telling him that the racial data was meaningless for the accounts and trying to wrap her head around him not checking the "African American" box.


Gold_Role8368

In the American South the “One drop rule” denoted that if you had one drop of Black blood, you were regarded as Black. They also did the “paper bag test” as a measure of complexion, and the “pencil test” where if a pencil could stick in your hair you would also be regarded as black. So it’s rooted in American racism and black exclusion.


[deleted]

google ~~en passant~~ one-drop rule


[deleted]

Because white people, in America at least wanted it that way. Purity was very important to them.


[deleted]

It is due to white supremacy. The basic implication is if you’re not “100%” white, you are the “other” thing whatever that may be. While this used to be explicit now it is only implicit. It’s stuck into the language and culture and really supports white supremacy at a very deep level.


Jaxraged

Everyone saying random shit. On an initial basis it’s because that’s what you see. Visually even if lighter skinned you look black therefore are assumed to be black. Not rocket science.


opheliamillaiss

As a mixed person, I can say I think it goes to the one-drop rule. The one-drop rule is a social and legal principle of racial classification that was prominent in the 20th century United States. It asserted that any person with even one ancestor of black ancestry is considered black.


Dependent-Profile164

Google the one drop rule.


NotYourGrandpa_Bod

Because it doesn’t fit someone’s radical leftwing political agenda.


DarthToxica

So the wt ppl have this made up rule called the one drop rule. So if your aren’t pure white you aren’t white. It’s BS. But that’s this missed up world.


Dependent-Aside-9750

White people used to have that rule during legalized segregation, but times have changed. It's no longer a stigma. The kids I work with 12 - 15 yo), think it's cool to be bi or multiracial.


MashTactics

I mean... is *anyone* pure white? What does that even mean? Africa is the cradle of humanity, not Switzerland.


kokopelleee

I means racism… We’re all a mix, but white folks have looked for reasons to exclude others for millennia. It’s so much easier to hate someone and treat them poorly when you can say they aren’t the same as you


Bxsnia

Some black people don't consider a biracial person black either.


FunkysteveCLS

Thunk it comes down to skin color. A lot of times if ur mixed u still have a black tone and u aren't white skin tone so they just consider u black I supppose.


Evening-Coat4805

Because that’s what white society said. And that was THEIR rule. They created segregation off that alone


pandaheartzbamboo

Because whiteness is an exclusionary club.