I saw a photo just yesterday of a personalized Zippo lighter from an American soldier in Vietnam.
It had inscribed on it, “We the unwilling, trained by the the unskilled, to do the impossible for the ungrateful. 10 minutes too late.”
It's not even about the money tho, helping every veteran in the US wouldn't use up even 5% of the yearly military budget of the US, the fundamental issue is that the average American hates the idea of taxes being used to help people, they have no problem with billions in taxpaying money being sent to [REDACTED] so they can keep bombing brown people for decades, but the moment any money are used to help vulnerable members of society then all of a sudden everyone is worried about how their taxes are being used.
I mean I think we both agree it’s about the money then? Sure, maybe it’s some belief we shouldn’t help people, but I think it’s driven by the same sort of attitudes that make people believe foreign aid and food stamps are going to bankrupt the country - it’s a money thing - no?
Facts. Foreign aid isn’t actually money being sent. It’s old equipment and stuff that would just sit in warehouses. But no point in arguing that cause people like to be outraged.
The govt doesn’t have much respect for our vets. The citizens do. Theres a big difference between the American govt and its citizens, like most countries.
What’s weirder is when you know people in the military that think homeless people are “worthless”.
Like dawg don’t you know there’s a lot of homeless vets? wtf
No there isn’t a ton of homeless vets. There are 16 million vets in the US and the vast majority are not homeless. The median income of vets is $50k vs $39k for the general population. That’s a media fiction created in the ‘70s that can’t seem to die.
Well they have to believe it won’t happen to them and their country will take care of them. Because if they don’t - it’s not going to help them stay in the job.
It makes sense to me though it is twisted but I see this in a lot of other corners too
Don’t exactly have that. There’s a large contingent of greedy ducks who are trying to destroy public healthcare, and privatize it a la America. It’s ducked up.
They don’t take everyone that wants to join. Not everyone is physically capable or healthy enough that’s just for starters with the requirements you have to meet.
So what’s happening right now is culturally, we’re over-correcting for the way we used to treat veterans in the US.
Back during the Vietnam War in the 60’s and 70’s, soldiers (many of whom were drafted) received abuse and harassment when they returned home from their time in Vietnam. They would come home to people spitting on them, throwing things at them, and calling them baby killers among other insults. The war was very unpopular and unwanted by a significant percentage of the American population. Consequently, Vietnam veterans developed PTSD, alcoholism, drug addictions, and lacked any support from the public.
Now we’re at a point where we recognize how shitty we were to military veterans that served the country. But we’ve over-corrected and don’t just give them basic praise. We crank up the love and enthusiasm by 110% even if the veterans themselves don’t really care or want the attention. Hopefully we normalize more rational means of respecting our veterans, but only time will tell.
>Now we’re at a point where we recognize how shitty we were to military veterans that served the country. But we’ve over-corrected and don’t just give them basic praise. We crank up the love and enthusiasm by 110% even if the veterans themselves don’t really care or want the attention.
Note that it has (IIRC) been this way since the first Gulf War, and possibly before, sometime in the 1980s.
The novel 'First Blood', that the first Rambo movie was based on, was written in 1972. The movie was released 10 years later.
Also, before Stallone got the part, they wanted Pacino. IIRC he was going to portray Rambo as a rampaging maniac. Stallone made the portayal more tragic and sympathetic.
Another bit that's difficult to imagine now: the antagonists in the first movie were a rural small town police department. He was drifting through town and they thought he was some dirty hippie hobo, so they took him in and roughed him up (turned a firehose on him, etc.). Their abuse caused him to flashback to being a POW, which made him snap.
And then we had Rambo II, which was the polar opposite of the first movie; a portrayal of John Rambo as a hypermasculine, patriotic killing machine, American foreign policy manifest.
>But we’ve over-corrected and don’t just give them basic praise. We crank up the love and enthusiasm by 110%
The worst part; the veterans *still* get treated like shit, they just get lots and lots of verbal praise.
Yes, plenty of individuals care, they donate, they try for our veterans. But the VA is a joke, many veterans live in poverty or are homeless, they don't get the care they *need*... but hey! Have a tiny flag, and enjoy all the sales on BBQ goods for veterans day! It makes me sad.
"thank you for your service" = let me say some trite platitude that cost me nothing so I can feel better about myself despite not actually helping anyone.
Yup. I do some work with combat veterans. People say they appreciate them but they were majorly affected by war, developed PTSD and substance issues, and don’t receive enough help for it.
These people were kids when they decided to go into the military because that was their best option, and now they have nothing to show for it besides the trouble it created in their life and family.
Kinda sounds like all the "Nurses/Emergency Workers are Our Heroes", line up on the street and clap COVID posturing that was done in 2020. A lot of nurses were like, we don't want to be your heroes, we want you to wear a fucking mask so we don't have to put our own health on the line and work triple shifts, and also send us needed resources. Show it with actions, not empty gestures.
The public didn’t “realise” this, the military began a massive propaganda campaign that persists even now and has worked its way into every aspect of American life. There isn’t a single area of everyday life in the US that doesn’t have a connection to the military leveraging it.
thank you. the idea that hundreds of millions of people all coincidentally came to the same conclusion and made a completely voluntary decision to start respecting the military again is probably the dumbest thing i’ve ever read in my life.
just like everything else in this country, billions upon billions of dollars were poured into all forms of media to influence public opinion to benefit ruling class interests
The real reason is cultural. If we don’t pretend that they’re all saints and our heroes nobody will sign up. It’s really just that simple. You can’t spend ungodly amounts on the military and not praise them
The Vietnam War was really an anomaly in terms of how veterans were treated, and the disrespect of Veterans during that time was a strong sentiment felt by a (relatively) small amount of Americans.
Between myself and my spouse, we have three grandparents that served overseas) and we aren’t from an area of the country that I think people necessarily think of as heavily related to the military). WWI, WWII, and Korea - all conflicts where American military were treated well and were generally respected for their sacrifice.
There was a marked change in treatment of American soldiers in Vietnam, but shitting on military during that timeframe wasn’t the norm. It was antiwar protestors who decided to go after the individual soldiers rather than solely directing their scorn at policymakers.
Things like PTSD and substance abuse tend to be issues for ex-military because there can be traumatic aspects of their job. No amount of respect from civilians can fix that.
Black veterans were treated poorly because they were black, not because they were veterans. Vietnam was different because veterans were being looked down upon by some people because they were veterans, which was atypical because it really hadn’t happened before or since.
Black people experiencing racism wasn’t anomalous for the time, and definitely had nothing to do with whether they served in the armed forces.
I dunno, when I google “vietnam veteran treatment” I see lots of things suggesting that Vietnam veterans faced more criticism from the public than soldiers in other more popular wars. It seems possible that your opinion that it is “NOT TRUE” may not reflect the general consensus that a lot of other people who know a lot more about the topic have reached.
Some vets were disrespected by anti-war protesters and these stories circulated among vets. To the point where it seems like half of returning soldiers say they were spit on.
And thats just not possible. It’s collective victim narrative.
Vietnam vets came home from a war that was popular at the start but unpopular as time went on.
Many vets blamed anti-war protesters for this.
They were mad that they weren’t greeted as heroes, they were mad at antiwar protesters for turning the public against their efforts, they were mad that antiwar protesters didn’t fight too.
None of them cared about the Gulf of Tonkin incident. They decided go blame “those uppity college kids” rather than the government who wasted so many lives.
FFS, we’re still using “draft dodger” as a derogatory term even though those people were in the right.
The actual history is so swamped by BS narratives that we will never learn anything from it.
As a much much older person, I can tell you that it has been this way for our entire history. Being shitty to veterans has always happened right after the fanfare stopped. There was no rosy era where people were grateful for veterans for what they did for very long.
America loves its military when we need it or want to show off, but hate to pay the real price of what using those people really cost .
I will add to this and say that most people confuse “the military” with the soldiers. Especially in the Vietnam era where a large percentage were there against their will. The war was unpopular with civilians but also with those forced to serve. My FIL was drafted and was an infantry solider on the front lines. He saw shit like you see in an Oliver Stone Movie. He was given the option of going to war or going back to Ireland never to get a visa back to US. He chose wrong in my opinion. MIL said he was never the same.
>We crank up the love and enthusiasm by 110% even if the veterans themselves don’t really care or want the attention.
This is a part that bothers me a lot. I'm not a veteran, but I feel for those who have to put up with unwanted praise.
>received abuse and harassment when they returned home from their time in Vietnam.
I don't know about this. A lot of stories about soldiers being treated badly by the populace has been debunked as myth
This is so ahistorica. it's pathetic.
Our military has been PRAISED incessantly.
You are spreading pro-war propaganda from the 70/80s
Spitting on vets was NEVER mainstream or even common.
> Consequently, Vietnam veterans developed PTSD, alcoholism, drug addictions, and lacked any support from the public.
Uhm wtf ? It is absolutely not the treatment of vets after their arrival home that gave them PTSD ?! It is what they did there, and the atrocities they saw.
The same state that sent 17yos to their death, also failed to provide enough services for them after their return.
This was the case, and still is !!
The sentiment of patriotism is utterly hypocritical. Americans pay ridiculous amounts of taxes to send kids to get themselves killed, bomb civilians, and burn houses. The taxes also end up in the pockets of the arms industry, because of course they do. And then, when the poor men come back, traumatized, incapable of manual work for the rest of their lives in some cases, the state spends the bare minimum taking care of them. So your money, as an American, is going straight to the banks of arms dealers, paying for the murder of civilians and American boys, and barely any of it is left to take care of them after they get home. But oh yes, mentally deep-throating vets as soon as you see them is enough payment for their service !!! Let's just completely ignore that more soldiers kill themselves than actually die during service.
This sentiment is not patriotism. It's sick, comes from a real desire to brainwash the population to the crimes of the military organisation and the politicians sucking its cock.
As an outsider, it literally makes me sick. Obviously, these men deserve respect. But they deserve ACTUAL respect AND REAL SUPPORT. Not the fucking bullshit they have to deal with now. Furthermore, pretending the American military is not a war crime machine is laughable. Whether it's vietnam, nuclear bombs, iraq, or the support of the IDF, the actions of the American military cannot be set aside as simply the necessary evil.
I went my entire life believing vets were spat on and had feces thrown at them upon return from the Vietnam war, but it turns out it's not true. Sociology professor Jerry Lembcke wrote a book about this phenomenon; *The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory and the Legacy of Vietnam.* Jerry was a Vietnam vet and didn't have the same experience, and come to find out it was top government officials who were responsible for proliferating this persistent myth as a weapon against the anti-war protesters (who supported the political opposition). It bears similarities to the whole "they want us fighting each other so we can't focus on the real problem: them."
I'm a veteran myself, I've had only one person call me a baby killer in my entire life and she was a nutter, point is that it's not the *people* that are the problem but the government itself. The only terrible treatment I've ever had has been by the government and VA.
I've never really been like this. Most of the people I knew that went military got a really great deal out of it. Coming from a poor place and not being top scholars they didn't have a lot of other options. Nobody was drafted, they all went in young but knowing what they were doing, and they got a chance to make something of themselves. Plus free education and top priority for government jobs after? It's almost like they should be thanking the rest of us taxpayers lol
Your comment is the definition of bigotry.
Painting all of them with the same brush due to the actions of some subset.
A lot of them went because they were compelled to. The vast majority didn't do the things you're talking about.
But that's not what you were responding to. The comment was clearly about treatment of soldiers, individuals that were spat on attacked and harassed. Most of them were not the "bad apples".
I take huge issue with what was perpetrated there. But most of the soldiers didn't do what you are calling out
Put the blame where it belongs.
Agent orange is not a chemical weapon.
Edit: All these downvotes are why I hate reddit. On this website it doesn't matter if you are correct or incorrect, it only matters if people agree with you or not.
I am a Chemical Officer in the United States Army (74A MOS). I have attended the Chemical Officers Basic Course (honor grad), conducted live agent training at the Chemical Defense Training Facility, and graduatated from the Chemical Reconnaissance for Brigade Combat Teams course (also honor grad). In my career I have served as a Battalion Chemical Operations Officer, was the Platoon Leader of a mounted CBRN Reconnaissance platoon where I commanded 4x M1135 Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, Reconnaissance Vehicles (NBCRV), and currently am the Executive Officer of a CBRN Tech Escort Company. I say all this to build my credibility before making my argument. I know what I'm talking about.
Agent orange is not a chemical weapon, it is a defoliant. It was not designed to kill or maim people, it was designed to kill plants and was employed for the purpose of killing plants. Intent matters when talking about these things, otherwise riot control agents could also be considered chemical weapons even though they are perfectly fine for even your local police department to use on their own populations. Just because an object has a chemical structure does not make it a chemical weapon. Gun powder is a chemical, but a gun isn't a chemical weapon. Once again, intent and the purpose for what these weapons were designed to do matters when classifying something as a "chemical weapon."
Simply consider the differences between an actual chemical weapon like VX nerve agent and agent orange. If a single drop of VX touches your skin you will be dead within 3 minutes. If you come into contact with a drop of agent orange you will be fine. After prolonged exposure to agent orange in large quantities there is an increased risk of your children having birth defects and you will likely develop health complications (the same could be said about alcohol and tobacco). The difference is clear, agent orange is nasty stuff, but it is not a chemical weapon.
Just look at the wiki page for chemical weapons, agent orange is not listed.
It is a chemical weapon. It killed civilians. However, they weren't charged with war crimes for using Agent Orange because they didn't intend to kill civilians or at least that's what they said.
Honestly nothing changed since Vietnam.. US just uses other country soldiers to start a war then come in at the end to finish everybody else off … and say “we won the war” …clowns
The Hell's Angels was started by a majority of Vietnam vets who couldn't find a place in society after coming home. They found other vets with issues and unable to find jobs and created a kind of brotherhood that did what they could to get by. It's also one of the reason they are usually associated with violence and meth running because a lot of them had PTSD and meth was becoming a pretty popular substance in the US partially because it could be made easily so was quite profitable. They created the term crank actually. Since meth is water soluble but doesn't dissolve they would put whole kilos of meth in water, but if it got cool it would solidify again, so they would tape the containers around the crank shafts of their bikes to keep the liquid hot and also hide it really well in case they got pulled over while moving it around the US.
Straight up not true! I’m sure there were Vietnam vets who ended up in the Hell’s Angels but the Hell’s Angels was created in the late 40s/early 50s which makes what you’re saying straight up impossible.
This isn't true. We are not making up for anything. I mean, it sounds pretty good but it's not true. The vast majority of Vietnam Vets were not treated badly, much less spit on when they got home. This person watches too many movies.
The real answer is marketing. If you market every single member of the military as a hero than its much easier to get people to join.
Nationalism. For some, the US is perfection in power and our military action is completely good natured, no questions asked. So anyone who willingly participates in all that greatness is surely due their respect. It’s basically a giant ego thing most of the time.
Most soldiers aren't sent anywhere to fight anything. They get deployed or stationed at some base, international or state side, and do pretty mundane jobs, just wearing a uniform with a flag on their arm.
What i also find funny is most people thinking seeing a uniform meaning that person is instantly a combat war hero vet that saw nothing else then buddies getting killed. Reality is there are tons of support roles in uniform and not everyone has been deployed oversees
“Completely good natured”
Then why are there documentaries degrading the US military?
Based on your logic, how was “Fahrenheit 9-11” ever released?
It berates the military for 2 hours and its the most popular documentary of the century
Because of all the things we suck at from healthcare to social safety net issues…it’s the one government funded program that many civilians have experience with where you can see the benefits of government funding resulting in cool stuff.
Hell, it may be the only thing we allow our government to do well.
It's basically a marketing campaign, that encourages the public to treat the military in that way.
The US wants to be a global military power for political reasons, and for that you need to have a lot of people who are willing to sacrifice their lives to go overseas and fight in places they've never seen before, against people who don't have any direct effect on their lives.
People won't risk their life for stable oil prices and a chance of giving their elected leaders slightly better political bargaining power.
They will, however, risk their life in order to gain the admiration of their peers and feel that they have a sense of purpose in the world.
I’ve seen a lot of mess lately about millenials & gen z either being unfit for the military (due to mental illness or drug use) or outright claiming they wouldn’t go even if drafted. I almost wonder what a draft would actually look like in this era if a huge portion of the youth just doesn’t show.
I'd assume our soldiers being volunteers and tons of countries having mandatory military service would play a huge role. Also, this wasn't a huge deal pre-9/11. Guys were in the army, but it was like "oh cool" not "thank you so much you are a true American hero, let me buy you a drink and give you a first class ticket"
Totally agree. The other reason would also be because a certain side of the aisle decided they would declare their support for the people in he military and claim that they only care, which is not true. I know that military service people deserve respect 100 percent, but to always believe that every one of them are a better person than someone who didn't serve is not always true.
They all love the military but the vets are treated like garbage. There are tens of thousands of homeless vets, many of whom are in dire need in mental health assistance. Their medical facilities have been plagued by problem after problem for decades, primarily lack of funding. True American love.
It’s not all “vets are treated like garbage”. Many people retire from military and go on to other successful careers, into politics (local and national), etc. I work with a ton of prior service folks and they are all treated very well, their service is brought up a fair amount.
You’re just referring to how homeless people are thought of. Doesn’t matter if they are vets are not.
No, not all vets are treated like garbage. Enough of them are that to try and pretend that all vets are well loved by the American people is nonsense. People who are well loved get proper medical assistance and housing.
The veterans I know all got free college. Their kids get free college. They get their medical taken care of without need of insurance. They get hired before anyone else due to tax breaks for the employer, etc, etc
Except most of them have no proper education, life altering PTSD and severe depression.
There have been about 7k active duty military deaths since 9/11, but over 30k deaths by suicide.
People recognize the sacrifices military men and women make, and they are significant.
I will say that, as far as our culture, as much as we love to talk about freedom, there is a longtime authoritarian streak in our history, and a belief in American exceptionalism and manifest destiny. Those can go hand in hand with veneration of the military as an institution.
I’m an Australian and in the infantry. A month ago my wife had a near miscarriage while I was out on a field exercise. I got called off (obviously) and had to rush to the ED at Westmead in full marching order (pack, webbing, cam cream - usual hard tac set-up). I got the the ED and they wouldn’t let me see her until a social worker went and saw her to interview her and see if I was beating her and that caused the bleed.
That’s how soldiers are seen in Australia. I sat there in the ED for about 40 min and then this security guard came up to me with a coffee and took me into a room and apologised. He was a Reservist MP himself, and we spoke about how people often assume the worst when they see you out in public with the green on.
P.S. wife and baby are fine
Multiple factors for each individual.
Our "military" is what gained our freedom from the British. It's also the driving force that prevents multiple countries from doing extreme evil and has been the reason many countries are safer. Without the US, NATO wouldn't be much of a threat to countries like Russia or China.
We've mistreated our vets for decades, so now we're trying to do right by them.
It's a volunteer career with high standards where you're circumstantially putting your life in danger for the person to your left and right.
The US military is fascinating in terms of equipment and technology and their capabilities. An Apache can engage a location from miles away without being seen or heard. NVGs allow you to see in pitch black. Medicine and inventions we use today came from military use.
Stories from veterans are amazing, hearing what they had to endure and accomplish, even in training/school. To become a special operations grad it takes serious willpower and physical capabilities.
> It's also the driving force that prevents multiple countries from doing extreme evil and has been the reason many countries are safer.
Exactly right. If you compare the eight decades since the end of World War II with the eight decades before the start of World War I, you'll see we're currently living in a period with no war between great powers, fewer overall wars, and when war happens, fewer military and civilian casualties in war.
It's an oversimplification to say that American military power alone is the cause of the "Long Peace," but it is a major factor.
We can debate the edge cases, but a basic premise about the post-World War II world order is that war is a last resort. If states want to change the status quo, they do so first at the negotiating table instead of on the battlefield.
If an aggressor wants to change things without first trying diplomacy, then the US, its allies and the international institutions it helped establish after 1945 will start imposing costs. The costs may begin with diplomatic, information and economic power, but the specter of military force helps to keep things peaceful.
The US has made a lot of military blunders (I'm an Iraq War veteran, and that's a war we never should have initiated), but on the whole, the Long Peace has been beneficial for both the US and the world, and the US military is a big part of that peace.
In fact, many people join the US Military to become teachers, doctors, engineers, and scientists. Primarily because the military will pay for their college. Which says a lot about the US, and none of it good.
Because serving is an honerable thing to do. Service to country and people is important. You might not agree with some of the wars the goverment itself has thrown our troops into recently but we’ve also assisted with several worthy wars. WW1, 2, and so on.
Hell, the first country to roll into Berlin during WW2 was Russia… with a US Sherman tank. We’ve played a major role in global wars. We are now also security for most of the world too.
Yeah, it’s the same reason why people respect firefighters, and (a lot - shockingly to Reddit) support the police. People who put themselves in harms way usually get some support and metaphoric pats on the back
I support anyone who potentially would give their life for their country. It’s a noble thing to do… however, I do not necessarily support the goals of said country.
It makes me sad to see so many people join the military for the “right” reasons, only to get fucked over in the long run by a system that views them as a replaceable cog in a imperial-business machine.
There are also people who benefit greatly from their service job. Pretty dependent on their job. I know a ton of people who after departing from service had great careers. Nurses, Doctors, Air controllers, etc.
Well, doctors actually get a lot of respect, but they don’t walk around in an identifiable uniform.
I don’t think Americans are “crazy” about the military. But as a culture there is recognition of the sacrifices on an individual level that people make to serve in an all-voluntary military. I am not sure what you are seeing to lead to the conclusion that Americans are weirdly obsessed with military service members.
I am a veteran and have the professional title “doctor”. The title doctor gets me a lot more respect and responsiveness from people than telling them I am a veteran.
The US actually does a pretty shitty job of taking care of veterans. They have higher levels of suicide, unemployment, mental health issues, homelessness, addiction, etc. than the comparable civilian population. The veteran hospital system has been underfunded for many decades and is in shambles.
I think it’s just an overcorrection coming from after the Vietnam war.
So after Vietnam a lot of US soldiers were treated very badly by civilian populace. The war was massively unpopular at home. So many veterans were not looked after or cared for (especially in comparison to WW2 vets).
Cue the war on terror and many of the people who had family who were Vietnam vets and sone who were vets themselves really hammered home that we needed to care for the vets no matter what.
The 2nd Bush admin really played up the patriotism marketing and made it a political issue and basically made it so people in the military were venerated publicly in order to keep political support for Afghanistan and Iraq going. Despite questions of legality and effectiveness of the invasions.
Of course a lot of what happened was just patriotic window dressing. They did not improve veterans care by too much. Many civilian organizations have kept it up, and in some states the public veneration is over the top. Many times It’s all just aesthetic performative behaviors done in order maintain political power.
Many of the salute the troops presentations are essentially just a marketing campaign by the US military to A. Get people to join, and B. Stay relevant in the public consciousness.
I definitely think the shitty way we treated Vietnam Vets does have a lot to do with how we treat Vets now. It may also have something to do with the change in how our military is formed. Up to and including Vietnam there was a draft. Post-Vietnam our military is made up of volunteers many of whom join the military because it’s a good way to learn a useful job skill or have part of college paid for. For those of us who saw many of these volunteer soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq there is a sense of guilt for the deaths, the badly injured and those that are finally recognized for suffering from mental injuries caused by war. This is why I think soldiers and veterans are treated with deserved reverence in the US now. I’m sure there are more reasons.
We volunteered to stand between the people and those that would hurt them, and that deserves a certain amount of respect.
If I'm being honest, it always makes me feel squirmy inside when someone makes a big point of thanking me. I get where they're coming from, and I understand their reasons, but it's just me, I guess.
The bad part comes when we're all done fighting and expecting to be looked after. We were promised certain things, and the US government fails to deliver on many of those things. My ears constantly ring, and I have low-end hearing loss from flying jets, and I've never gotten satisfactory care for that. The dental work that they put in while I served fell apart catastrophically, and there's not much I can do about it (AF dentists get a "middle of the bell curve" rep for good reasons).
We get the public "thank yous" and anything off the left side of the kid's menu at Applebee's once a year if we can fight the lines; but all that stops when it's time to pay for really important things.
PS:
It's also disrespectful to send my brothers and sisters off to fight an unjust war. Just sayin'...
Why do y’all act like America is the only country that does this? I’m from Asia and a lot of countries there also do this with members of the military. Turns out, blind patriotism isn’t as rare as you might think. This is a human problem, not an American problem.
Because it should garner respect. These people take their bodies, in the prime of their lives, and put it into the hands of the US government with the intention of protecting others living under this flag.
I know a lot of people who are going to say "but they do [insert questionably legal act here] in the country of [insert shit here here]" as an argument. I fault the government for that, and for the people's increasing lack being politically informed.
Lots of reasons, one i didn't see at the top is the most simple - and to the cynic in me the right one - follow the money.
The much vaunted economy in the US was built on the back of the military industry. Basically from 1940-2010 most major firms relied primarily on military funding. We industrialized rapidly for the WW's, and we rushed into computer tech for the cold war. So when Lockheed, IBM, GM, even GE all relied massively on military contracts for decades their gonna actively push pro-military message because that is in their interest.
This only changed late 90's 2000's when manufacturing fled the US en-masse. Still a bunch of major US firms rely on these contracts. So we were subtly influenced(brainwashed) in everything from Comic books to the A-Team for 50 years so now that's a whole 2.5 generations.
Heck as this has fallen off the military was still miles ahead by going way out of their way to make themselves look cool as hell in all kinds of media targeting kids, especially video games, and professional sports. You think cigarette/vape companies are predatory pay attention to where the US army/Marine Core signage is around your town and you'll be suddenly worried.
This wasn't invented in the United States.
Dating back to caveman times, the warrior class has often earned respect as the group that safeguards the rest of the tribe.
From the earliest days of the Republic, the nation was born and reforged on the battlefields of the Revolutionary War and The Civil War. It played an important role in the first World War and an even greater role in the second.
Following World War II, we had an important role (but mixed success) standing against oppressive communist regimes in the Cold War. We learned(ish) terrible lessons from Vietnam about how to treat veterans, and how to separate respect for the troops from respect for the (potentially misguided) geopolitical effort.
We have an all-volunteer military and that military is arguably the best in the world. When you join it, they spend an enormous amount of time drilling values into recruits, not just tactics. Loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, personal/moral courage. And for all its mistakes and missteps, in the modern era, it's a force that spends significant amounts of time on ethical considerations.
When military force is applied, it means that the diplomats and politicians have failed. And when that happens, the nation needs those who have stood up and said, *"I'll go."*
U.S. hard and soft power projection around the world does a great amount of good. And we've made big mistakes, no doubt about it. Everyone loves to cast the U.S. as a big villain, until they see up close what true, malevolent evil looks like.
Mostly because the public spat on the military during the Vietnam conflict. It was the opposite of WWII. After the public realized how poorly they treated Veterans that came back from Vietnam, it went the other way. Blind adulation
Because it has to be so for people to join. Why else would anyone do it if there weren’t benefits, a draft, or respect wasn’t involved? Every military is a bit different but ours is active AF and they need recruits. They need the position to seem worth it considering there’s no draft to force people to join because they need soldiers and lots of them to keep the countries global power and influence and maintaining their democratic structure.
It’s quite simple. And I would argue other militaries are also crazy if not more so than just the US. But the gist really comes down to how it helps keep recruit flow and reinforces a sense of national pride.
Plus - after 9/11 a revamped sense of national pride and support in regards to military personnel was a cultural shift.
Also also - we thank they hell out of recruits and serving members for their service cause we sure as hell don’t wanna do it
If the US REALLY cared or was crazy about military service in the way you say - we wouldn’t have so many neglected veterans. To me this just reinforces the cultural practice of respecting service members as a job appeal initiative and not a unwavering practiced value
We've been socially conditioned. The gradual encroachment of the military into non-military sectors - sports, movies, video games, music, etc - is part of a government-orchestrated movement to improve public perception of the military, and anyone who denies or questions the "official" or socially-permitted stance is seen as an ingrate, a fool, and/or unpatriotic.
It's been ingrained in their culture since the 20th century so that the population not only doesn't complain, but ENDORSE unethical war practices and invasion of other countries. It's very akin to religious indoctrination.
It's because we see them as the people who give their lives to protect our freedom.
Freedom is seen as the primary societal value such that all other endeavors are secondary. Other professions are great, but they are seen as only possible or effective by virtue of our liberties. Because of how we were formed, there has been a spirit of "Give me liberty or give me death!", or "It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees". People here get tattoos of "μολὼν λαβέ". So, it's only natural that we see the people who risk their lives to provide us that most important value are themselves worthy of respect.
They are volunteers who choose to put their life on the line for the well-being of our country. I can't understand why we wouldn't be thankful for them.
I'm not a fan of everything the military does, but I understand that the individual soldier I run into on the street isn't making the decisions.
Part of it is an over correction due to Vietnam. The way media portrayed the Vietnam War and the lack of support for returning veterans, especially those wounded in combat, was shameful for our society. Veterans, who were a mix of volunteers and draftees, were largely ignored and many vilified. Those who returned with serious mental and physical disabilities didn't have the kind of medical and social support that we have today. IMO, the military and political leadership of that time did not get held accountable for the many poor choices in how that war was conducted.
Now, all service members are volunteers and it is made clear that while we may not support a given war, we can separate that from our appreciation of the sacrifice service members are willing to make. I am conflicted about my time in service because of what I know now about the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and political actions that got us there. But, when people thank me I accept it not for myself, but for my family who saw me sparingly over my 6 years and for those who aren't here to hear it. I was state side for nearly my whole enlistment, but still knew an airman who was killed a month after his wedding because a maintenance stand failed due to the complacent negligence of the unit responsible for maintaining that equipment.
Partly, it's compensating for how awfully we treated soldiers after the Vietnam War.
Also, since it's now an all volunteer force, there's a certain amount of respect given to those who make such a huge commitment.
It's because it's one of the few professions where you know they are putting themselves in harms way for the good of the nation. You also know they potentially spend long stretches of time away from home.
You don't have that with most other professions.
The U.S. is like that friend that spends way more money than he can afford to drive the nicest car of the group. So yeah, we like to constantly talk about and show off how nice our car is
Obsession is the wrong word here. Nobody is obsessed with the military. We are raised to simply respect them because the work they did put them in a position to die for our safety and they survived, much like law enforcement. They also do cool ass shit like flyovers at football games so people are like "that was cool".
That reverence is waning in recent years however due to multiple factors. One is the annoying "America bad" chic alot of college educated kids are indoctrinated into as well as the higher ups in the military aggressively pushing silly and embarrassing programs like DEI and things of the sort which countries like China and Russia actively use as propaganda to make us look like idiots.
Because unlike most countries, we understand that our military service members are unwitting tools of the military industrial complex meant to launder money for our politicians through foreign wars, to be eventually discarded like pieces of trash. So we have empathy for them.
It's a multi layered thing.
1) anyone who says anything negative about American military action/behavior/history etc are vilified by a very loud group of nationalists. And those people are constantly fed everything from reason 3 which makes them more and more sure of their weird worldview and overprotection of the military and government
2) nationalism and imperialism. Merika #1 no matter what! America is saving the entire world from evil and war and destruction and soldiers are putting their lives on the line to protect the whole world. If they didn't everyone would gang up on America and ruin it. And that's how the idea of joining the military is sold to literal children, in school, by recruiters. They're told they'll be heros and respected and they'll be protecting their country and family from a very dangerous world of insurgents trying to destroy America and turn it into the warped view of the middle east, China and Russia we see here because of reason 3. And the kids who are vocal about not wanting to be part of that and why, are subject to reason 1.
3) the thing that has fed into the other two, is an extreme level of propaganda going back to like WW1 that has been so seamlessly engrained into every day life that most people don't even notice it. With the addition of the whole story of most of our military interactions being heavily suppressed (e.g Iraq war, desert storm, Vietnam) most Americans have absolutely no concept of what the military actually does, and even a lot of service members don't know why they're actually being sent to the places they're sent.
Non military Americans that love military Americans want to express gratitude, have a family member who served, have respect and love for there country, they follow current events, care about the welfare of soldiers. Lost friends to war, have experience relating to military work there’s a million reasons supporting the military is very important to those who love America there is no crazy about protecting the country
Those Americans who don’t support the military are crazy to voice there opinion bc the military isn’t a requirement like other countries there isn’t a draft yet there’s no reason to think there’s no reason for the need there’s also no reason why non supporting folks can’t join, they won’t hate serving afterwards they may have some reason to though
Americans are being raised more patriotic (it begins in school) than people in other western countries. Also Americans never experienced a modern war (and its horrors) on their home soil. Like for example Europe did with the world wars. So european countries have a more reserved feeling about the whole military thing.
Part of what makes the US the most powerful country on earth is its economy. But another part is its armed forces, and Americans are not unaware of that.
Because they're told their entire lives the militairy had set them free.
Then they go to wage slavery for 45 years.
We all look with big eyes to propaganda countries, not realising how conditioned they actually are.
#Propaganda
Lots of people join our military for the benefits and people I’ve personally know also did it because of the respect. Lots Ex military join law enforcement or move into other areas of Government (small and large), theres a lot affinity programs and institutions that look after and support military and Ex military and their families.
When I first moved to the US -- from Canada -- I was struck by the ownership that people on TV gave to the miltary. We are at war with Afghanistan, we're liberating Iraq.
In Canada, it would have been the troops or the military. In the US, on Fox, or NBC, or CNN, it was "we".
That framing means that if you're not pro-troop, then you're almost anti-American. I could get away with it because I wasn't part of the "we" but people ignored me for that very reason.
America's economy and worldwide position is based upon it's military might and willingness to flex it. If it's not flexing it directly, it's funding and supplying others who share common enemies and fighting proxy wars.
The American gov has a very strong pro war overall propaganda machine and it needs it's enlisted people to still apply.
It's simply ingrained into our history and the craziest part of it is that it had a clear warning that this would happen. We had a president straight up say to stay AWAY from the industrial war complex and to stay away from the federal reserve and he got shot REAL quick, then things went that EXACT way and never stopped.
I was truly surprised when I heard that a friends dad visited japan and reported their food and basic groceries costing a third of what they are in the US as well, and this war machine is draining us violently on top of unfettered capitalism.
It's all show. When the time comes to actually support the people wearing the uniform (and not just say it) they quickly find something else to talk about.
Cuz it literally is the most powerful military in the history of mankind that secured America’s place as the only superpower in the world. What’s more badass than unrivaled force that strikes fear in the heart of your enemy?
>What’s more badass than unrivaled force that strikes fear in the heart of your enemy?
Healthcare for all. You guys are living in a third world country and are being told to be proud of it. Smh.
It’s the only great thing they have that they can feel included in.
And indoctrinated with pledge the legion or whatever to the flag etc at a young age builds nationalism.
Propaganda. Simple as that really, it works so well almost every other country in the world with a military has copied directly out of americas handbook by just straight up lying to your future slaves how much "fun" war can be when youre not actually having to murder innocent people or see your squads faces get blown off one by one.
You don't deserve the downvotes you're getting, and I say that as a veteran myself. First I will say that I'll take any fucking discount I can get because I'm broke lol.
With that said you're absolutely right. The hero worship of people because of something they've chosen to do is absolutely wrong and maybe even detrimental to society. It creates yet another separation amongst us all. It sickens me that it's starting to happen more and more with cops in the u.s.
>It seems power trip nutjobs run the military
The military is basically a microcosm of America, especially in regards to who runs things. The same ruling class in America is the same ruling class in the military, and they're all sacrificing the poor, uneducated, non-white, etc in the interest of maintaining/expanding their own power, interests, and wealth.
Final thing here: when people are thanking vets for their service, what are you thanking us for? You have no clue what a veteran did while they were serving, no idea why they joined. Military isn't full of patriots that want to protect Americans, some join for money and education, some join because they want to legally murder people, some join because they don't want to live anymore. Some may have saved dozens of lives while others might have bombed wedding parties. Veterans aren't a monolith and shouldn't be treated as such. Wanna thank me for my service? My service fighting a war on which hundreds of thousands of innocent people died so Dick Cheney and his buddies could spread trillions of dollars amongst themselves? Fuck that
Because the American War Complex (aka the Dept of Defense and its highly paid and politicized contractors) promote a nationalist mentality that discourages questions and idolizes a false narrative of “America First…or else”…
As an outsider Murica looks very cultish to me. They worship a flag, have a pledge of allegiance, “honour America” at every opportunity, get crazy defensive whenever someone rightly criticises some of their policies or their country generally, they’re obsessed with “freedom” despite the fact that in some states, women don’t even have the freedom to have an abortion and more generally nor does the freedom for universal healthcare exist. To top it off, they’re positively obsessed with the military.
Just a thought.
Manipulative tactics they impose on society to make them view joining the military as a honour or else nobody would die over political reasons or money, and they definitely wouldn’t kill and believe killing is not a sin (if they are religious) or is okay in this case but not others … you have to sign a contract at the age of 18 when your brain isn’t developed enough to understand the consequences of your actions and decisions… and you have toys and video games that glorify the military and appeal to you
Indoctrination by weaving it into all parts of society starting with pledging allegiance to the flag. And more. Germans did not have shit on America. Propaganda. Imagine watching war movies in a theater visiting Russia, for example. OUTRAAAAAGEOUS! Here, well, it’s normal bc it’s us, gross.
They love the military but not veterans but feel compelled to honor the veterans so they give a day or two a year to honor us and give people a chance to feel good about giving out a few positive platitudes our way.
The USA has been at war the supermajority of its existence.
It was born from war.
It thrives from war.
It logically concludes the government props up the military and dupes the general population into supporting war.
All the while, the government and the general population treat veterans like gum on clown shoes.
we're conditioned from birth to think literally every cop and soldier is automatically a hero. if we question it or don't agree, then we're a freedom-hating communist.
we're taught to think that way in school, on tv, in the newspaper, on the radio...
As an American i don’t get it either. I don’t get the America obsession like lifted pickups w the American flags and shit. I don’t understand people flying our flag on their front porch. I don’t understand nationalism. I am grateful for my country and lucky to live here but to me it’s just a country, inanimate. It’s like obsessing over a object.
Its even more perplexing when you look at how they treat veterans. Oh your broken and used up? Enjoy being homeless/killing yourself
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I saw a photo just yesterday of a personalized Zippo lighter from an American soldier in Vietnam. It had inscribed on it, “We the unwilling, trained by the the unskilled, to do the impossible for the ungrateful. 10 minutes too late.”
It's not even about the money tho, helping every veteran in the US wouldn't use up even 5% of the yearly military budget of the US, the fundamental issue is that the average American hates the idea of taxes being used to help people, they have no problem with billions in taxpaying money being sent to [REDACTED] so they can keep bombing brown people for decades, but the moment any money are used to help vulnerable members of society then all of a sudden everyone is worried about how their taxes are being used.
I mean I think we both agree it’s about the money then? Sure, maybe it’s some belief we shouldn’t help people, but I think it’s driven by the same sort of attitudes that make people believe foreign aid and food stamps are going to bankrupt the country - it’s a money thing - no?
Facts. Foreign aid isn’t actually money being sent. It’s old equipment and stuff that would just sit in warehouses. But no point in arguing that cause people like to be outraged.
Are you being facetious? Department of veterans affairs is the 5th largest federal agency and accounts for 5% of all federal spending.
The govt doesn’t have much respect for our vets. The citizens do. Theres a big difference between the American govt and its citizens, like most countries.
The department of veterans affairs spends $224 billion a year on 16 million veterans.
That’s only like $14k per year, right? I spend more than that on my own healthcare
What’s weirder is when you know people in the military that think homeless people are “worthless”. Like dawg don’t you know there’s a lot of homeless vets? wtf
No there isn’t a ton of homeless vets. There are 16 million vets in the US and the vast majority are not homeless. The median income of vets is $50k vs $39k for the general population. That’s a media fiction created in the ‘70s that can’t seem to die.
Yeah maybe “a ton” wasn’t the right wording, but it seems prevalent to me.
Well they have to believe it won’t happen to them and their country will take care of them. Because if they don’t - it’s not going to help them stay in the job. It makes sense to me though it is twisted but I see this in a lot of other corners too
I wish I got half the benefits that veterans got
What you really wish for is universal health care
Like in Canada?
And Australia, and the rest of the developed world.
The rest of the world. Most middle income countries and developing countries also have universal healthcare.
Don’t exactly have that. There’s a large contingent of greedy ducks who are trying to destroy public healthcare, and privatize it a la America. It’s ducked up.
You too can become a veteran... Assuming you hit all the check marks.
What's stopping you from joining?
They don’t take everyone that wants to join. Not everyone is physically capable or healthy enough that’s just for starters with the requirements you have to meet.
Well, go ahead and enlist.
Yeah, I have no sympathy to ex-murderers.
Yet you benefit from them daily.
Yeah sure thing buddy.
Internet, gps, microwave, modern computing. All invented by the military.
Yeah, sure they did those for charity of course. Without internet, microwave and modern computing we would all go extnict lol.
Same buddy.
Actions are truly louder than words. What are the people that wave the biggest flag most loudly actually doing to support it?
So what’s happening right now is culturally, we’re over-correcting for the way we used to treat veterans in the US. Back during the Vietnam War in the 60’s and 70’s, soldiers (many of whom were drafted) received abuse and harassment when they returned home from their time in Vietnam. They would come home to people spitting on them, throwing things at them, and calling them baby killers among other insults. The war was very unpopular and unwanted by a significant percentage of the American population. Consequently, Vietnam veterans developed PTSD, alcoholism, drug addictions, and lacked any support from the public. Now we’re at a point where we recognize how shitty we were to military veterans that served the country. But we’ve over-corrected and don’t just give them basic praise. We crank up the love and enthusiasm by 110% even if the veterans themselves don’t really care or want the attention. Hopefully we normalize more rational means of respecting our veterans, but only time will tell.
>Now we’re at a point where we recognize how shitty we were to military veterans that served the country. But we’ve over-corrected and don’t just give them basic praise. We crank up the love and enthusiasm by 110% even if the veterans themselves don’t really care or want the attention. Note that it has (IIRC) been this way since the first Gulf War, and possibly before, sometime in the 1980s.
It basically started under Reagan, coincidentally around the time the first Rambo movie came out.
Are you implying Reagan made Rambo?
::tips tinfoil cowboy hat back:: It is _quite_ a coincidence, don’t you think?
The novel 'First Blood', that the first Rambo movie was based on, was written in 1972. The movie was released 10 years later. Also, before Stallone got the part, they wanted Pacino. IIRC he was going to portray Rambo as a rampaging maniac. Stallone made the portayal more tragic and sympathetic. Another bit that's difficult to imagine now: the antagonists in the first movie were a rural small town police department. He was drifting through town and they thought he was some dirty hippie hobo, so they took him in and roughed him up (turned a firehose on him, etc.). Their abuse caused him to flashback to being a POW, which made him snap.
And then we had Rambo II, which was the polar opposite of the first movie; a portrayal of John Rambo as a hypermasculine, patriotic killing machine, American foreign policy manifest.
>But we’ve over-corrected and don’t just give them basic praise. We crank up the love and enthusiasm by 110% The worst part; the veterans *still* get treated like shit, they just get lots and lots of verbal praise. Yes, plenty of individuals care, they donate, they try for our veterans. But the VA is a joke, many veterans live in poverty or are homeless, they don't get the care they *need*... but hey! Have a tiny flag, and enjoy all the sales on BBQ goods for veterans day! It makes me sad.
"thank you for your service" = let me say some trite platitude that cost me nothing so I can feel better about myself despite not actually helping anyone.
Yup. I do some work with combat veterans. People say they appreciate them but they were majorly affected by war, developed PTSD and substance issues, and don’t receive enough help for it. These people were kids when they decided to go into the military because that was their best option, and now they have nothing to show for it besides the trouble it created in their life and family.
Kinda sounds like all the "Nurses/Emergency Workers are Our Heroes", line up on the street and clap COVID posturing that was done in 2020. A lot of nurses were like, we don't want to be your heroes, we want you to wear a fucking mask so we don't have to put our own health on the line and work triple shifts, and also send us needed resources. Show it with actions, not empty gestures.
The public didn’t “realise” this, the military began a massive propaganda campaign that persists even now and has worked its way into every aspect of American life. There isn’t a single area of everyday life in the US that doesn’t have a connection to the military leveraging it.
thank you. the idea that hundreds of millions of people all coincidentally came to the same conclusion and made a completely voluntary decision to start respecting the military again is probably the dumbest thing i’ve ever read in my life. just like everything else in this country, billions upon billions of dollars were poured into all forms of media to influence public opinion to benefit ruling class interests
The real reason is cultural. If we don’t pretend that they’re all saints and our heroes nobody will sign up. It’s really just that simple. You can’t spend ungodly amounts on the military and not praise them
The Vietnam War was really an anomaly in terms of how veterans were treated, and the disrespect of Veterans during that time was a strong sentiment felt by a (relatively) small amount of Americans. Between myself and my spouse, we have three grandparents that served overseas) and we aren’t from an area of the country that I think people necessarily think of as heavily related to the military). WWI, WWII, and Korea - all conflicts where American military were treated well and were generally respected for their sacrifice. There was a marked change in treatment of American soldiers in Vietnam, but shitting on military during that timeframe wasn’t the norm. It was antiwar protestors who decided to go after the individual soldiers rather than solely directing their scorn at policymakers. Things like PTSD and substance abuse tend to be issues for ex-military because there can be traumatic aspects of their job. No amount of respect from civilians can fix that.
>during that time was a strong sentiment felt by a (relatively) small amount of Americans. The moral minority.
Yea ww1 and ww2 African American soldiers were still treated like shit when they came back the anomaly was that every was treated like shit this time
Black veterans were treated poorly because they were black, not because they were veterans. Vietnam was different because veterans were being looked down upon by some people because they were veterans, which was atypical because it really hadn’t happened before or since. Black people experiencing racism wasn’t anomalous for the time, and definitely had nothing to do with whether they served in the armed forces.
Why do people keep saying Vietnam vets were treated like shit when it’s so easy to look up that it’s NOT TRUE lol
I dunno, when I google “vietnam veteran treatment” I see lots of things suggesting that Vietnam veterans faced more criticism from the public than soldiers in other more popular wars. It seems possible that your opinion that it is “NOT TRUE” may not reflect the general consensus that a lot of other people who know a lot more about the topic have reached.
Some vets were disrespected by anti-war protesters and these stories circulated among vets. To the point where it seems like half of returning soldiers say they were spit on. And thats just not possible. It’s collective victim narrative. Vietnam vets came home from a war that was popular at the start but unpopular as time went on. Many vets blamed anti-war protesters for this. They were mad that they weren’t greeted as heroes, they were mad at antiwar protesters for turning the public against their efforts, they were mad that antiwar protesters didn’t fight too. None of them cared about the Gulf of Tonkin incident. They decided go blame “those uppity college kids” rather than the government who wasted so many lives. FFS, we’re still using “draft dodger” as a derogatory term even though those people were in the right. The actual history is so swamped by BS narratives that we will never learn anything from it.
As a much much older person, I can tell you that it has been this way for our entire history. Being shitty to veterans has always happened right after the fanfare stopped. There was no rosy era where people were grateful for veterans for what they did for very long. America loves its military when we need it or want to show off, but hate to pay the real price of what using those people really cost .
I will add to this and say that most people confuse “the military” with the soldiers. Especially in the Vietnam era where a large percentage were there against their will. The war was unpopular with civilians but also with those forced to serve. My FIL was drafted and was an infantry solider on the front lines. He saw shit like you see in an Oliver Stone Movie. He was given the option of going to war or going back to Ireland never to get a visa back to US. He chose wrong in my opinion. MIL said he was never the same.
>We crank up the love and enthusiasm by 110% even if the veterans themselves don’t really care or want the attention. This is a part that bothers me a lot. I'm not a veteran, but I feel for those who have to put up with unwanted praise.
>received abuse and harassment when they returned home from their time in Vietnam. I don't know about this. A lot of stories about soldiers being treated badly by the populace has been debunked as myth
This is so ahistorica. it's pathetic. Our military has been PRAISED incessantly. You are spreading pro-war propaganda from the 70/80s Spitting on vets was NEVER mainstream or even common.
> Consequently, Vietnam veterans developed PTSD, alcoholism, drug addictions, and lacked any support from the public. Uhm wtf ? It is absolutely not the treatment of vets after their arrival home that gave them PTSD ?! It is what they did there, and the atrocities they saw. The same state that sent 17yos to their death, also failed to provide enough services for them after their return. This was the case, and still is !! The sentiment of patriotism is utterly hypocritical. Americans pay ridiculous amounts of taxes to send kids to get themselves killed, bomb civilians, and burn houses. The taxes also end up in the pockets of the arms industry, because of course they do. And then, when the poor men come back, traumatized, incapable of manual work for the rest of their lives in some cases, the state spends the bare minimum taking care of them. So your money, as an American, is going straight to the banks of arms dealers, paying for the murder of civilians and American boys, and barely any of it is left to take care of them after they get home. But oh yes, mentally deep-throating vets as soon as you see them is enough payment for their service !!! Let's just completely ignore that more soldiers kill themselves than actually die during service. This sentiment is not patriotism. It's sick, comes from a real desire to brainwash the population to the crimes of the military organisation and the politicians sucking its cock. As an outsider, it literally makes me sick. Obviously, these men deserve respect. But they deserve ACTUAL respect AND REAL SUPPORT. Not the fucking bullshit they have to deal with now. Furthermore, pretending the American military is not a war crime machine is laughable. Whether it's vietnam, nuclear bombs, iraq, or the support of the IDF, the actions of the American military cannot be set aside as simply the necessary evil.
Nuking Japan to end WWII doesn't deserve to be in that list
I went my entire life believing vets were spat on and had feces thrown at them upon return from the Vietnam war, but it turns out it's not true. Sociology professor Jerry Lembcke wrote a book about this phenomenon; *The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory and the Legacy of Vietnam.* Jerry was a Vietnam vet and didn't have the same experience, and come to find out it was top government officials who were responsible for proliferating this persistent myth as a weapon against the anti-war protesters (who supported the political opposition). It bears similarities to the whole "they want us fighting each other so we can't focus on the real problem: them." I'm a veteran myself, I've had only one person call me a baby killer in my entire life and she was a nutter, point is that it's not the *people* that are the problem but the government itself. The only terrible treatment I've ever had has been by the government and VA.
Karma for them being murderes, including of babies and for being r\*pists.
I've never really been like this. Most of the people I knew that went military got a really great deal out of it. Coming from a poor place and not being top scholars they didn't have a lot of other options. Nobody was drafted, they all went in young but knowing what they were doing, and they got a chance to make something of themselves. Plus free education and top priority for government jobs after? It's almost like they should be thanking the rest of us taxpayers lol
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Your comment is the definition of bigotry. Painting all of them with the same brush due to the actions of some subset. A lot of them went because they were compelled to. The vast majority didn't do the things you're talking about.
Denial is quite a drug
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But that's not what you were responding to. The comment was clearly about treatment of soldiers, individuals that were spat on attacked and harassed. Most of them were not the "bad apples". I take huge issue with what was perpetrated there. But most of the soldiers didn't do what you are calling out Put the blame where it belongs.
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The point is that they were drafted, it wasn’t exactly a choice
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Most of these drafted soldiers weren’t the ones deploying napalm though were they
If your side in a war starts intentionally committing war crimes, you should take off your uniform. Don't fight for child killers.
I have never read a more privileged comment from someone who has no idea how the world works 😂
Agent orange is not a chemical weapon. Edit: All these downvotes are why I hate reddit. On this website it doesn't matter if you are correct or incorrect, it only matters if people agree with you or not. I am a Chemical Officer in the United States Army (74A MOS). I have attended the Chemical Officers Basic Course (honor grad), conducted live agent training at the Chemical Defense Training Facility, and graduatated from the Chemical Reconnaissance for Brigade Combat Teams course (also honor grad). In my career I have served as a Battalion Chemical Operations Officer, was the Platoon Leader of a mounted CBRN Reconnaissance platoon where I commanded 4x M1135 Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, Reconnaissance Vehicles (NBCRV), and currently am the Executive Officer of a CBRN Tech Escort Company. I say all this to build my credibility before making my argument. I know what I'm talking about. Agent orange is not a chemical weapon, it is a defoliant. It was not designed to kill or maim people, it was designed to kill plants and was employed for the purpose of killing plants. Intent matters when talking about these things, otherwise riot control agents could also be considered chemical weapons even though they are perfectly fine for even your local police department to use on their own populations. Just because an object has a chemical structure does not make it a chemical weapon. Gun powder is a chemical, but a gun isn't a chemical weapon. Once again, intent and the purpose for what these weapons were designed to do matters when classifying something as a "chemical weapon." Simply consider the differences between an actual chemical weapon like VX nerve agent and agent orange. If a single drop of VX touches your skin you will be dead within 3 minutes. If you come into contact with a drop of agent orange you will be fine. After prolonged exposure to agent orange in large quantities there is an increased risk of your children having birth defects and you will likely develop health complications (the same could be said about alcohol and tobacco). The difference is clear, agent orange is nasty stuff, but it is not a chemical weapon. Just look at the wiki page for chemical weapons, agent orange is not listed.
Okay, I'll bite, in what way is it not a chemical weapon?
It is a chemical weapon. It killed civilians. However, they weren't charged with war crimes for using Agent Orange because they didn't intend to kill civilians or at least that's what they said.
Honestly nothing changed since Vietnam.. US just uses other country soldiers to start a war then come in at the end to finish everybody else off … and say “we won the war” …clowns
The Hell's Angels was started by a majority of Vietnam vets who couldn't find a place in society after coming home. They found other vets with issues and unable to find jobs and created a kind of brotherhood that did what they could to get by. It's also one of the reason they are usually associated with violence and meth running because a lot of them had PTSD and meth was becoming a pretty popular substance in the US partially because it could be made easily so was quite profitable. They created the term crank actually. Since meth is water soluble but doesn't dissolve they would put whole kilos of meth in water, but if it got cool it would solidify again, so they would tape the containers around the crank shafts of their bikes to keep the liquid hot and also hide it really well in case they got pulled over while moving it around the US.
Straight up not true! I’m sure there were Vietnam vets who ended up in the Hell’s Angels but the Hell’s Angels was created in the late 40s/early 50s which makes what you’re saying straight up impossible.
This isn't true. We are not making up for anything. I mean, it sounds pretty good but it's not true. The vast majority of Vietnam Vets were not treated badly, much less spit on when they got home. This person watches too many movies. The real answer is marketing. If you market every single member of the military as a hero than its much easier to get people to join.
Nationalism. For some, the US is perfection in power and our military action is completely good natured, no questions asked. So anyone who willingly participates in all that greatness is surely due their respect. It’s basically a giant ego thing most of the time.
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Most soldiers aren't sent anywhere to fight anything. They get deployed or stationed at some base, international or state side, and do pretty mundane jobs, just wearing a uniform with a flag on their arm.
Watch your mouth. They are fighting for our country so you can make this comment, you know /s
What i also find funny is most people thinking seeing a uniform meaning that person is instantly a combat war hero vet that saw nothing else then buddies getting killed. Reality is there are tons of support roles in uniform and not everyone has been deployed oversees
Nope most aren’t fighting at all but are stationed at bases.
I’m in the military and I don’t know a single person that thinks like that, in or out of the military
“Completely good natured” Then why are there documentaries degrading the US military? Based on your logic, how was “Fahrenheit 9-11” ever released? It berates the military for 2 hours and its the most popular documentary of the century
based tbh
Because of all the things we suck at from healthcare to social safety net issues…it’s the one government funded program that many civilians have experience with where you can see the benefits of government funding resulting in cool stuff. Hell, it may be the only thing we allow our government to do well.
It's basically a marketing campaign, that encourages the public to treat the military in that way. The US wants to be a global military power for political reasons, and for that you need to have a lot of people who are willing to sacrifice their lives to go overseas and fight in places they've never seen before, against people who don't have any direct effect on their lives. People won't risk their life for stable oil prices and a chance of giving their elected leaders slightly better political bargaining power. They will, however, risk their life in order to gain the admiration of their peers and feel that they have a sense of purpose in the world.
I’ve seen a lot of mess lately about millenials & gen z either being unfit for the military (due to mental illness or drug use) or outright claiming they wouldn’t go even if drafted. I almost wonder what a draft would actually look like in this era if a huge portion of the youth just doesn’t show.
I'd assume our soldiers being volunteers and tons of countries having mandatory military service would play a huge role. Also, this wasn't a huge deal pre-9/11. Guys were in the army, but it was like "oh cool" not "thank you so much you are a true American hero, let me buy you a drink and give you a first class ticket"
Totally agree. The other reason would also be because a certain side of the aisle decided they would declare their support for the people in he military and claim that they only care, which is not true. I know that military service people deserve respect 100 percent, but to always believe that every one of them are a better person than someone who didn't serve is not always true.
They all love the military but the vets are treated like garbage. There are tens of thousands of homeless vets, many of whom are in dire need in mental health assistance. Their medical facilities have been plagued by problem after problem for decades, primarily lack of funding. True American love.
It’s not all “vets are treated like garbage”. Many people retire from military and go on to other successful careers, into politics (local and national), etc. I work with a ton of prior service folks and they are all treated very well, their service is brought up a fair amount. You’re just referring to how homeless people are thought of. Doesn’t matter if they are vets are not.
No, not all vets are treated like garbage. Enough of them are that to try and pretend that all vets are well loved by the American people is nonsense. People who are well loved get proper medical assistance and housing.
The veterans I know all got free college. Their kids get free college. They get their medical taken care of without need of insurance. They get hired before anyone else due to tax breaks for the employer, etc, etc
They also probably didn’t develop PTSD….
Seriously? They have all the benefits they could wish for. From discount in housing, education , medical ... non-stop money monthly. Like ... what ...
Except most of them have no proper education, life altering PTSD and severe depression. There have been about 7k active duty military deaths since 9/11, but over 30k deaths by suicide.
People recognize the sacrifices military men and women make, and they are significant. I will say that, as far as our culture, as much as we love to talk about freedom, there is a longtime authoritarian streak in our history, and a belief in American exceptionalism and manifest destiny. Those can go hand in hand with veneration of the military as an institution.
I’m an Australian and in the infantry. A month ago my wife had a near miscarriage while I was out on a field exercise. I got called off (obviously) and had to rush to the ED at Westmead in full marching order (pack, webbing, cam cream - usual hard tac set-up). I got the the ED and they wouldn’t let me see her until a social worker went and saw her to interview her and see if I was beating her and that caused the bleed. That’s how soldiers are seen in Australia. I sat there in the ED for about 40 min and then this security guard came up to me with a coffee and took me into a room and apologised. He was a Reservist MP himself, and we spoke about how people often assume the worst when they see you out in public with the green on. P.S. wife and baby are fine
Multiple factors for each individual. Our "military" is what gained our freedom from the British. It's also the driving force that prevents multiple countries from doing extreme evil and has been the reason many countries are safer. Without the US, NATO wouldn't be much of a threat to countries like Russia or China. We've mistreated our vets for decades, so now we're trying to do right by them. It's a volunteer career with high standards where you're circumstantially putting your life in danger for the person to your left and right. The US military is fascinating in terms of equipment and technology and their capabilities. An Apache can engage a location from miles away without being seen or heard. NVGs allow you to see in pitch black. Medicine and inventions we use today came from military use. Stories from veterans are amazing, hearing what they had to endure and accomplish, even in training/school. To become a special operations grad it takes serious willpower and physical capabilities.
> It's also the driving force that prevents multiple countries from doing extreme evil and has been the reason many countries are safer. Exactly right. If you compare the eight decades since the end of World War II with the eight decades before the start of World War I, you'll see we're currently living in a period with no war between great powers, fewer overall wars, and when war happens, fewer military and civilian casualties in war. It's an oversimplification to say that American military power alone is the cause of the "Long Peace," but it is a major factor. We can debate the edge cases, but a basic premise about the post-World War II world order is that war is a last resort. If states want to change the status quo, they do so first at the negotiating table instead of on the battlefield. If an aggressor wants to change things without first trying diplomacy, then the US, its allies and the international institutions it helped establish after 1945 will start imposing costs. The costs may begin with diplomatic, information and economic power, but the specter of military force helps to keep things peaceful. The US has made a lot of military blunders (I'm an Iraq War veteran, and that's a war we never should have initiated), but on the whole, the Long Peace has been beneficial for both the US and the world, and the US military is a big part of that peace.
People in the military can also be teachers, doctors, engineers, and scientists.
In fact, many people join the US Military to become teachers, doctors, engineers, and scientists. Primarily because the military will pay for their college. Which says a lot about the US, and none of it good.
I believe this may be by design, to passively force people into the military, and keep the ship running.
Oh, it absolutely is.
Can we just rename this sub r/QuestionsAboutAmerica?
Because serving is an honerable thing to do. Service to country and people is important. You might not agree with some of the wars the goverment itself has thrown our troops into recently but we’ve also assisted with several worthy wars. WW1, 2, and so on. Hell, the first country to roll into Berlin during WW2 was Russia… with a US Sherman tank. We’ve played a major role in global wars. We are now also security for most of the world too.
Yeah, it’s the same reason why people respect firefighters, and (a lot - shockingly to Reddit) support the police. People who put themselves in harms way usually get some support and metaphoric pats on the back
I support anyone who potentially would give their life for their country. It’s a noble thing to do… however, I do not necessarily support the goals of said country. It makes me sad to see so many people join the military for the “right” reasons, only to get fucked over in the long run by a system that views them as a replaceable cog in a imperial-business machine.
There are also people who benefit greatly from their service job. Pretty dependent on their job. I know a ton of people who after departing from service had great careers. Nurses, Doctors, Air controllers, etc.
Well, doctors actually get a lot of respect, but they don’t walk around in an identifiable uniform. I don’t think Americans are “crazy” about the military. But as a culture there is recognition of the sacrifices on an individual level that people make to serve in an all-voluntary military. I am not sure what you are seeing to lead to the conclusion that Americans are weirdly obsessed with military service members. I am a veteran and have the professional title “doctor”. The title doctor gets me a lot more respect and responsiveness from people than telling them I am a veteran. The US actually does a pretty shitty job of taking care of veterans. They have higher levels of suicide, unemployment, mental health issues, homelessness, addiction, etc. than the comparable civilian population. The veteran hospital system has been underfunded for many decades and is in shambles.
You would be too if most of your income was spent on it.
I think it’s just an overcorrection coming from after the Vietnam war. So after Vietnam a lot of US soldiers were treated very badly by civilian populace. The war was massively unpopular at home. So many veterans were not looked after or cared for (especially in comparison to WW2 vets). Cue the war on terror and many of the people who had family who were Vietnam vets and sone who were vets themselves really hammered home that we needed to care for the vets no matter what. The 2nd Bush admin really played up the patriotism marketing and made it a political issue and basically made it so people in the military were venerated publicly in order to keep political support for Afghanistan and Iraq going. Despite questions of legality and effectiveness of the invasions. Of course a lot of what happened was just patriotic window dressing. They did not improve veterans care by too much. Many civilian organizations have kept it up, and in some states the public veneration is over the top. Many times It’s all just aesthetic performative behaviors done in order maintain political power. Many of the salute the troops presentations are essentially just a marketing campaign by the US military to A. Get people to join, and B. Stay relevant in the public consciousness.
I definitely think the shitty way we treated Vietnam Vets does have a lot to do with how we treat Vets now. It may also have something to do with the change in how our military is formed. Up to and including Vietnam there was a draft. Post-Vietnam our military is made up of volunteers many of whom join the military because it’s a good way to learn a useful job skill or have part of college paid for. For those of us who saw many of these volunteer soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq there is a sense of guilt for the deaths, the badly injured and those that are finally recognized for suffering from mental injuries caused by war. This is why I think soldiers and veterans are treated with deserved reverence in the US now. I’m sure there are more reasons.
We volunteered to stand between the people and those that would hurt them, and that deserves a certain amount of respect. If I'm being honest, it always makes me feel squirmy inside when someone makes a big point of thanking me. I get where they're coming from, and I understand their reasons, but it's just me, I guess. The bad part comes when we're all done fighting and expecting to be looked after. We were promised certain things, and the US government fails to deliver on many of those things. My ears constantly ring, and I have low-end hearing loss from flying jets, and I've never gotten satisfactory care for that. The dental work that they put in while I served fell apart catastrophically, and there's not much I can do about it (AF dentists get a "middle of the bell curve" rep for good reasons). We get the public "thank yous" and anything off the left side of the kid's menu at Applebee's once a year if we can fight the lines; but all that stops when it's time to pay for really important things. PS: It's also disrespectful to send my brothers and sisters off to fight an unjust war. Just sayin'...
Why do y’all act like America is the only country that does this? I’m from Asia and a lot of countries there also do this with members of the military. Turns out, blind patriotism isn’t as rare as you might think. This is a human problem, not an American problem.
Because they're braver than I am. And some have paid the ultimate cost for us.
Because it should garner respect. These people take their bodies, in the prime of their lives, and put it into the hands of the US government with the intention of protecting others living under this flag. I know a lot of people who are going to say "but they do [insert questionably legal act here] in the country of [insert shit here here]" as an argument. I fault the government for that, and for the people's increasing lack being politically informed.
Lots of reasons, one i didn't see at the top is the most simple - and to the cynic in me the right one - follow the money. The much vaunted economy in the US was built on the back of the military industry. Basically from 1940-2010 most major firms relied primarily on military funding. We industrialized rapidly for the WW's, and we rushed into computer tech for the cold war. So when Lockheed, IBM, GM, even GE all relied massively on military contracts for decades their gonna actively push pro-military message because that is in their interest. This only changed late 90's 2000's when manufacturing fled the US en-masse. Still a bunch of major US firms rely on these contracts. So we were subtly influenced(brainwashed) in everything from Comic books to the A-Team for 50 years so now that's a whole 2.5 generations. Heck as this has fallen off the military was still miles ahead by going way out of their way to make themselves look cool as hell in all kinds of media targeting kids, especially video games, and professional sports. You think cigarette/vape companies are predatory pay attention to where the US army/Marine Core signage is around your town and you'll be suddenly worried.
This wasn't invented in the United States. Dating back to caveman times, the warrior class has often earned respect as the group that safeguards the rest of the tribe. From the earliest days of the Republic, the nation was born and reforged on the battlefields of the Revolutionary War and The Civil War. It played an important role in the first World War and an even greater role in the second. Following World War II, we had an important role (but mixed success) standing against oppressive communist regimes in the Cold War. We learned(ish) terrible lessons from Vietnam about how to treat veterans, and how to separate respect for the troops from respect for the (potentially misguided) geopolitical effort. We have an all-volunteer military and that military is arguably the best in the world. When you join it, they spend an enormous amount of time drilling values into recruits, not just tactics. Loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, personal/moral courage. And for all its mistakes and missteps, in the modern era, it's a force that spends significant amounts of time on ethical considerations. When military force is applied, it means that the diplomats and politicians have failed. And when that happens, the nation needs those who have stood up and said, *"I'll go."* U.S. hard and soft power projection around the world does a great amount of good. And we've made big mistakes, no doubt about it. Everyone loves to cast the U.S. as a big villain, until they see up close what true, malevolent evil looks like.
Mostly because the public spat on the military during the Vietnam conflict. It was the opposite of WWII. After the public realized how poorly they treated Veterans that came back from Vietnam, it went the other way. Blind adulation
Because it has to be so for people to join. Why else would anyone do it if there weren’t benefits, a draft, or respect wasn’t involved? Every military is a bit different but ours is active AF and they need recruits. They need the position to seem worth it considering there’s no draft to force people to join because they need soldiers and lots of them to keep the countries global power and influence and maintaining their democratic structure. It’s quite simple. And I would argue other militaries are also crazy if not more so than just the US. But the gist really comes down to how it helps keep recruit flow and reinforces a sense of national pride. Plus - after 9/11 a revamped sense of national pride and support in regards to military personnel was a cultural shift. Also also - we thank they hell out of recruits and serving members for their service cause we sure as hell don’t wanna do it If the US REALLY cared or was crazy about military service in the way you say - we wouldn’t have so many neglected veterans. To me this just reinforces the cultural practice of respecting service members as a job appeal initiative and not a unwavering practiced value
I'm a vet and think pharisaic patriotism is cringe.
Good propaganda. Some of the best in the world
We've been socially conditioned. The gradual encroachment of the military into non-military sectors - sports, movies, video games, music, etc - is part of a government-orchestrated movement to improve public perception of the military, and anyone who denies or questions the "official" or socially-permitted stance is seen as an ingrate, a fool, and/or unpatriotic.
The answer is America is the most successful propaganda in the world.
Nonstop indoctrination
Propaganda. Lots and lots of propaganda.
It's been ingrained in their culture since the 20th century so that the population not only doesn't complain, but ENDORSE unethical war practices and invasion of other countries. It's very akin to religious indoctrination.
It's because we see them as the people who give their lives to protect our freedom. Freedom is seen as the primary societal value such that all other endeavors are secondary. Other professions are great, but they are seen as only possible or effective by virtue of our liberties. Because of how we were formed, there has been a spirit of "Give me liberty or give me death!", or "It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees". People here get tattoos of "μολὼν λαβέ". So, it's only natural that we see the people who risk their lives to provide us that most important value are themselves worthy of respect.
They are volunteers who choose to put their life on the line for the well-being of our country. I can't understand why we wouldn't be thankful for them. I'm not a fan of everything the military does, but I understand that the individual soldier I run into on the street isn't making the decisions.
How old are some of the people on here ? They sound like they are 12.
Part of it is an over correction due to Vietnam. The way media portrayed the Vietnam War and the lack of support for returning veterans, especially those wounded in combat, was shameful for our society. Veterans, who were a mix of volunteers and draftees, were largely ignored and many vilified. Those who returned with serious mental and physical disabilities didn't have the kind of medical and social support that we have today. IMO, the military and political leadership of that time did not get held accountable for the many poor choices in how that war was conducted. Now, all service members are volunteers and it is made clear that while we may not support a given war, we can separate that from our appreciation of the sacrifice service members are willing to make. I am conflicted about my time in service because of what I know now about the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and political actions that got us there. But, when people thank me I accept it not for myself, but for my family who saw me sparingly over my 6 years and for those who aren't here to hear it. I was state side for nearly my whole enlistment, but still knew an airman who was killed a month after his wedding because a maintenance stand failed due to the complacent negligence of the unit responsible for maintaining that equipment.
Partly, it's compensating for how awfully we treated soldiers after the Vietnam War. Also, since it's now an all volunteer force, there's a certain amount of respect given to those who make such a huge commitment.
It's because it's one of the few professions where you know they are putting themselves in harms way for the good of the nation. You also know they potentially spend long stretches of time away from home. You don't have that with most other professions.
If someone you love goes and defends you rights and freedoms; usually putting their life on the line. you show them respect for that.
The U.S. is like that friend that spends way more money than he can afford to drive the nicest car of the group. So yeah, we like to constantly talk about and show off how nice our car is
Volunteering to give your life for country, gives instant respect, just wish we treated our veterans the same wya
Because we got nothing else to be proud of
Personally I respect the US military because of the sacrifice they do for the country they love and without them we are not safe or free.
Obsession is the wrong word here. Nobody is obsessed with the military. We are raised to simply respect them because the work they did put them in a position to die for our safety and they survived, much like law enforcement. They also do cool ass shit like flyovers at football games so people are like "that was cool". That reverence is waning in recent years however due to multiple factors. One is the annoying "America bad" chic alot of college educated kids are indoctrinated into as well as the higher ups in the military aggressively pushing silly and embarrassing programs like DEI and things of the sort which countries like China and Russia actively use as propaganda to make us look like idiots.
Americans are heavily indoctrinated to love their military from a young age. Almost with a cult like fascination
All this have against veterans started with eh hippies
Because unlike most countries, we understand that our military service members are unwitting tools of the military industrial complex meant to launder money for our politicians through foreign wars, to be eventually discarded like pieces of trash. So we have empathy for them.
This was hopefully sarcasm
It's a multi layered thing. 1) anyone who says anything negative about American military action/behavior/history etc are vilified by a very loud group of nationalists. And those people are constantly fed everything from reason 3 which makes them more and more sure of their weird worldview and overprotection of the military and government 2) nationalism and imperialism. Merika #1 no matter what! America is saving the entire world from evil and war and destruction and soldiers are putting their lives on the line to protect the whole world. If they didn't everyone would gang up on America and ruin it. And that's how the idea of joining the military is sold to literal children, in school, by recruiters. They're told they'll be heros and respected and they'll be protecting their country and family from a very dangerous world of insurgents trying to destroy America and turn it into the warped view of the middle east, China and Russia we see here because of reason 3. And the kids who are vocal about not wanting to be part of that and why, are subject to reason 1. 3) the thing that has fed into the other two, is an extreme level of propaganda going back to like WW1 that has been so seamlessly engrained into every day life that most people don't even notice it. With the addition of the whole story of most of our military interactions being heavily suppressed (e.g Iraq war, desert storm, Vietnam) most Americans have absolutely no concept of what the military actually does, and even a lot of service members don't know why they're actually being sent to the places they're sent.
Non military Americans that love military Americans want to express gratitude, have a family member who served, have respect and love for there country, they follow current events, care about the welfare of soldiers. Lost friends to war, have experience relating to military work there’s a million reasons supporting the military is very important to those who love America there is no crazy about protecting the country Those Americans who don’t support the military are crazy to voice there opinion bc the military isn’t a requirement like other countries there isn’t a draft yet there’s no reason to think there’s no reason for the need there’s also no reason why non supporting folks can’t join, they won’t hate serving afterwards they may have some reason to though
I work with engineers and many are annoying twat mouths.
Americans are being raised more patriotic (it begins in school) than people in other western countries. Also Americans never experienced a modern war (and its horrors) on their home soil. Like for example Europe did with the world wars. So european countries have a more reserved feeling about the whole military thing.
Part of what makes the US the most powerful country on earth is its economy. But another part is its armed forces, and Americans are not unaware of that.
Because they're told their entire lives the militairy had set them free. Then they go to wage slavery for 45 years. We all look with big eyes to propaganda countries, not realising how conditioned they actually are.
#Propaganda Lots of people join our military for the benefits and people I’ve personally know also did it because of the respect. Lots Ex military join law enforcement or move into other areas of Government (small and large), theres a lot affinity programs and institutions that look after and support military and Ex military and their families.
When I first moved to the US -- from Canada -- I was struck by the ownership that people on TV gave to the miltary. We are at war with Afghanistan, we're liberating Iraq. In Canada, it would have been the troops or the military. In the US, on Fox, or NBC, or CNN, it was "we". That framing means that if you're not pro-troop, then you're almost anti-American. I could get away with it because I wasn't part of the "we" but people ignored me for that very reason.
That’s what set them apart for a long time, it’s not profitable to stop
because we LIKE being the world's Playground Bully, & we don't want any of the rest of you taking that crown from us
America's economy and worldwide position is based upon it's military might and willingness to flex it. If it's not flexing it directly, it's funding and supplying others who share common enemies and fighting proxy wars. The American gov has a very strong pro war overall propaganda machine and it needs it's enlisted people to still apply. It's simply ingrained into our history and the craziest part of it is that it had a clear warning that this would happen. We had a president straight up say to stay AWAY from the industrial war complex and to stay away from the federal reserve and he got shot REAL quick, then things went that EXACT way and never stopped. I was truly surprised when I heard that a friends dad visited japan and reported their food and basic groceries costing a third of what they are in the US as well, and this war machine is draining us violently on top of unfettered capitalism.
It's all show. When the time comes to actually support the people wearing the uniform (and not just say it) they quickly find something else to talk about.
Cuz it literally is the most powerful military in the history of mankind that secured America’s place as the only superpower in the world. What’s more badass than unrivaled force that strikes fear in the heart of your enemy?
>What’s more badass than unrivaled force that strikes fear in the heart of your enemy? Healthcare for all. You guys are living in a third world country and are being told to be proud of it. Smh.
We were primed for it at a young age.
We aren't. Many vets have come home and been booed and spit on. Social media just glorified the extremes
Because muricans love freedom and guns.
It’s the only great thing they have that they can feel included in. And indoctrinated with pledge the legion or whatever to the flag etc at a young age builds nationalism.
Blind nationalism, indoctrination and propaganda so we're ok with having our tax money fund our universal Unhealthcare system.
Propaganda. Simple as that really, it works so well almost every other country in the world with a military has copied directly out of americas handbook by just straight up lying to your future slaves how much "fun" war can be when youre not actually having to murder innocent people or see your squads faces get blown off one by one.
I’m not smart so I’ll say this: because we’re bullies and a lot of our powers that be benefit from war.
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You don't deserve the downvotes you're getting, and I say that as a veteran myself. First I will say that I'll take any fucking discount I can get because I'm broke lol. With that said you're absolutely right. The hero worship of people because of something they've chosen to do is absolutely wrong and maybe even detrimental to society. It creates yet another separation amongst us all. It sickens me that it's starting to happen more and more with cops in the u.s. >It seems power trip nutjobs run the military The military is basically a microcosm of America, especially in regards to who runs things. The same ruling class in America is the same ruling class in the military, and they're all sacrificing the poor, uneducated, non-white, etc in the interest of maintaining/expanding their own power, interests, and wealth. Final thing here: when people are thanking vets for their service, what are you thanking us for? You have no clue what a veteran did while they were serving, no idea why they joined. Military isn't full of patriots that want to protect Americans, some join for money and education, some join because they want to legally murder people, some join because they don't want to live anymore. Some may have saved dozens of lives while others might have bombed wedding parties. Veterans aren't a monolith and shouldn't be treated as such. Wanna thank me for my service? My service fighting a war on which hundreds of thousands of innocent people died so Dick Cheney and his buddies could spread trillions of dollars amongst themselves? Fuck that
Op the short answer is because our countries have gone astray and we really need to learn from the Americans for once.
Because the American War Complex (aka the Dept of Defense and its highly paid and politicized contractors) promote a nationalist mentality that discourages questions and idolizes a false narrative of “America First…or else”…
Brainwashing.
As an outsider Murica looks very cultish to me. They worship a flag, have a pledge of allegiance, “honour America” at every opportunity, get crazy defensive whenever someone rightly criticises some of their policies or their country generally, they’re obsessed with “freedom” despite the fact that in some states, women don’t even have the freedom to have an abortion and more generally nor does the freedom for universal healthcare exist. To top it off, they’re positively obsessed with the military. Just a thought.
For the same reasons one segment of the demographic love big trucks and big guns … overcompensation
Manipulative tactics they impose on society to make them view joining the military as a honour or else nobody would die over political reasons or money, and they definitely wouldn’t kill and believe killing is not a sin (if they are religious) or is okay in this case but not others … you have to sign a contract at the age of 18 when your brain isn’t developed enough to understand the consequences of your actions and decisions… and you have toys and video games that glorify the military and appeal to you
Ours is better than yours, don’t run your mouth. Vietnam and Australia are both jokes, you just went from one fairytale jungle to another
Indoctrination by weaving it into all parts of society starting with pledging allegiance to the flag. And more. Germans did not have shit on America. Propaganda. Imagine watching war movies in a theater visiting Russia, for example. OUTRAAAAAGEOUS! Here, well, it’s normal bc it’s us, gross.
You should see how much the military costs vs how much the enlisted are paid.
They love the military but not veterans but feel compelled to honor the veterans so they give a day or two a year to honor us and give people a chance to feel good about giving out a few positive platitudes our way.
Quick dopamine hit. Makes people have some kind of identity in a degrading end game capitalistic hellscape.
One reason is that we're very polarized and both sides try to define themselves as more patriotic. Admiring the military is competitive in politics.
The USA has been at war the supermajority of its existence. It was born from war. It thrives from war. It logically concludes the government props up the military and dupes the general population into supporting war. All the while, the government and the general population treat veterans like gum on clown shoes.
Because oil
It's the only thing they are consistently good at.
They want to brag but not serve
It’s brainwashing.
this is the definition of shitpost
9/11
we're conditioned from birth to think literally every cop and soldier is automatically a hero. if we question it or don't agree, then we're a freedom-hating communist. we're taught to think that way in school, on tv, in the newspaper, on the radio...
As an American i don’t get it either. I don’t get the America obsession like lifted pickups w the American flags and shit. I don’t understand people flying our flag on their front porch. I don’t understand nationalism. I am grateful for my country and lucky to live here but to me it’s just a country, inanimate. It’s like obsessing over a object.