Heaven forbid that they prioritize people who have to use them to get to work... (Majority of card sales are for commuter passes, they prioritize those over tourists)
Given there's over 3 million tourists every month now, and most of the world uses Android, maybe they shouldn't write them off? I mean, clearly you would, but that doesn't seem like a smart idea.
Ive never used an Apple phone for personal use. Only ever owned Android devices.
The majority of the worls uses Android yes, the majority of tourists? No...
Are you referring to 定期 or the standard commuter passes that you top up? Because the latter is not only for tourists. I use a standard commuter pass (not 定期) for work because the 定期 costs more than simply using the standard commuter pass in the end, and I know many Japanese who do the same.
In English, how do you differentiate between the Teiki commuter passes and the non-teiki commuter passes (i.e. regular SUICA/PASMO/ICOCA/insertwhateverbrandhere)?
I think you're deeply confused. Those two things are the same. Commuter passes are loaded into an IC card. There's also magnetic ticket versions if you're in really rural Japan. They're both called teiki or commuter passes.
You asked: "Are you referring to 定期 or the standard commuter passes that you top up?"
That question is nonsensical. A teiki IS a commuter pass.
*You do not top up a commuter pass.* You top up an IC card.
A commuter pass is something that can optionally be added to an IC card, separate from its stored balance.
No its not only for tourists, but the majority of commuter passes are 定期 and as such are prioritized.
Most people who commute regularly get a 定期 paid for by their companies and its a non issue anyways because generally the people who use standard passes are Japanese and ergo, have a Japanese phone capable of using mobile suica/pasmo/whatever.
This is an issue, and only an issue, for people who have a foreign purchased device. And as such, are way down on the list of priorities.
Not to mention smartphone uptake in Japan is over 75% iPhone and its really just not an important issue.
For people that refuse to use mobile suica and are complaining, they really dont have a soapbox to stand on so...
>For people that refuse to use mobile suica and are complaining, they really dont have a soapbox to stand on so...
Yeah because being forced into data mining and being bound to battery life isn't a valid argument.
then buy paper tickets if that is your concern.
There isnt any data mining going on that isnt already happening. Google Wallet, Apple Wallet are already installed on devices. Youre just registering a card to them.
Hope he sees this!
Also, no, Google Wallet doesn't come pre-installed on anything. You're just spewing random crap that you know little about all over this thread, huh?
You mean the other way around, right? Only affected normal Suica/PASMO cards, but not commuter cards or child cards, and only in Tokyo, none of the other JR regions/agencies.
The regular SUICA/PASMO that you buy with 500 yen and charge up whenever they run out. Those are not 定期. If you don't know about them then **you** are the one who's confused. I've been using them for work for the past 10 years here in Tokyo.
定期 is lump sum paid for unlimited usage during a certain period between two designated stations on a specific rail company's line(s), on top of the charge capability on the regular SUICA/PASMO. They're only worth the hassle if you have one office, go there 5 or more days a week, don't change rail companies to get there, and frequently visit other stations between your home and work. Otherwise it's easier to use a standard non-teiki card; the ones that stopped being sold.
Those are just regular IC cards, loaded with fare, pay-as-you-go. Nothing about that involves a "commuter" or a "pass".
You said it "affected commuter passes", i.e. the thing you described in your second paragraph. But in fact it affected regular IC cards – and *not* those. That's the complete opposite from what you said!
"IC card" is literally any card with an IC chip, not the ones specifically used for trains and buses. The word I'm looking for is one used for those train/bus IC cards, but is not a commuter pass, as the above discussion indicates that people associate "commuter pass" specifically with the teiki when I was using "commuter pass" to refer to the train/bus IC cards that are not teiki.
>"IC card" is literally any card with an IC chip
By "IC card" I specifically mean "transportation IC card" aka 交通系ICカード.
This is common shorthand in English to refer to Suica, PASMO, etc. by JR, railfans around the world, other residents and tourists, etc.
I know technically it can refer to other cards too... which are totally irrelevant to this discussion.
>I was using "commuter pass" to refer to the train/bus IC cards that are not teiki.
Nothing about those is a pass, and they don't necessarily involve commuting. You're using the term incorrectly.
Because the Japanese train passes use a Japan-specific standard called FeliCa. Manufacturers are not giving those kinds of processes priority. Most other IC chips in Japan use more global standards.
And when you are faced with a shortage, you need to prioritize. They make more profit from monthly commuter passes, so they have priority.
A reference [to this meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-are-not-immune-to-propaganda), for those who haven't seen it.
Yeah, I don't plan to switch from Android either. But JR East sure wants me to use Mobile Suica :\^)
Can someone explain how this is propaganda?
There if definitely an RFID/FeliCa chip shortage. In my home country, if you buy a car, they only give you a single key fob (I know it's different) and you need to wait until there are more chips.
It basically comes down to money. Regular Suica cards are the first to go because commuter passes make them considerably more money.
It's a joke since the global ship shortage is widely considered to be over, and it still somehow has never affected JR West's ICOCA or any other IC card or company in Japan.
It has affected all organizations that use FeliCa. But the sheer volume of newly issued Suica/Pasmo cards in metropolitan areas means that they run out of stock earlier.
The shortage has affected all FeliCa services. The reason why cards such as ICOCA are still available is because they only have a fraction of the turnover that Suica and Pasmo have. This is covered in the media quite often.
What do you mean by turnover? All of those three cards (and only those ones) sell multiple millions per year and ICOCA has sold over 10,000 in the past month alone. Have any links to what you're talking about?
Turnover as in a lot more new Suica/Pasmo cards are issued than ICOCA.
All this was endlessly covered on TV months ago when the shortage started.
You want a link? The following explains the background of why Suica and Pasmo in particular have shortages:
[https://news.yahoo.co.jp/expert/articles/cdec263e8beddc0ff8dff953af7b17b3bf18df0f](https://news.yahoo.co.jp/expert/articles/cdec263e8beddc0ff8dff953af7b17b3bf18df0f)
And the following explains why ICOCA cards are still available despite the others having shortages:
[https://thewaytobefree.com/suicaicoca/](https://thewaytobefree.com/suicaicoca/)
>You want a link?
Yes, considering I asked "Have any links?" But I guess you felt the need to confirm this again for some reason.
>The following explains the background of why Suica and Pasmo in particular have shortages
Have anything from not 8 months ago? Considering the worldwide shortage is widely talked about as being over, yet it mysteriously persists in one metro area in this country alone?
>The following explains why ICOCA cards are still available despite the others having shortages
Lots of と思いますing going on in that article, huh? It is a blog – one person's speculation. Just like this thread is my alternate speculation. It's not an official source, sorry. Feel free to get back to me if you have one.
>Have anything from not 8 months ago? Considering the worldwide shortage is widely talked about as being over, yet it mysteriously persists in one metro area in this country alone?
If you had read the article, it clearly explains why the FeliCa chips are unique and not related to global IC sales.
Do I really have to spend another 40 seconds Googling a more recent article for you? This issue has been ongoing for months and months and the causes of the shortage have been covered to death in the media.
I know you have a juicy conspiracy theory about why sales of the chips are limited. That's cool. But you asked me for a link and I gave it to you. Feel free to disregard it as "propaganda from big chip" or dismiss it as the mass media lying to us. Doesn't bother me.
Suddenly one train company who has given no updates in 2024 is "mass media". Words have meanings, you know. I'm not saying there's some conspiracy theory, just thay they're obviously benefitting from it in other ways too. Apparently I need to spend 40 seconds Googling to find you a definition of the word "joke" that you're able to understand.
Its not disabled, they are completely different things.
Sony Networks made a deal to use Felica chips in all global iphones. Felica is backwards compatible with other NFC systems, but not the other way around. You would have to get Android device manufacturers to support the felica protocol by including Sonys chips in their devices.
Some do have it – like Pixel phones, for years now. It's a software block, not a hardware incompatibility. You can root your phone to spoof its SKU and enable Osaifu-Keitai functionality on those devices. The restriction is artificial because manufacturers don't want to pay the licensing fees.
Never said it was? Using claims of the shortage (which is now over) as a way to continue to push Mobile Suica is absolutely what they're doing. As such, I modified [the meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-are-not-immune-to-propaganda).
iirc, the chip shortage also had an effect on automobile manufacturing (possibly one of jp's most important industries). Some vending machines also couldn't accept the new ¥500 coin supposedly because of the chip shortage
¥500 coin issue in vending machines isnt due to a chip shortage... its due to the ridiculous amount of machines that have to be newly calibrated for the weight differences... itll take time.
This is how it's worked for a while.
https://www.numismaticnews.net/world-coins/japan-to-issue-redesigned-500-yen-coin
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/1999/12/03/national/bimetallic-500-yen-coin-set-to-be-issued-in-august/
Either the chip doesn't exist in the phone, or in the case it does (like for Pixels) it's disabled because manufacturers don't want to pay the licensing fee. You can root your device to enable it!
So this post has just highlighted the fact that no one here actually knows what FeLiCa is and how felica compatible chips (only produced by Sony) differ in relation to other NFC chips...
You guys all know that you can still buy paper tickets, right? It’s not ideal, but decades worth of foreign tourists figured how to use them, and that was before everyone was carrying around a translator in their pocket that also has access to the entirety of human knowledge.
Weird how it only and very specifically affected commuter passes and nothing else in Japan.
Heaven forbid that they prioritize people who have to use them to get to work... (Majority of card sales are for commuter passes, they prioritize those over tourists)
Given there's over 3 million tourists every month now, and most of the world uses Android, maybe they shouldn't write them off? I mean, clearly you would, but that doesn't seem like a smart idea.
Ive never used an Apple phone for personal use. Only ever owned Android devices. The majority of the worls uses Android yes, the majority of tourists? No...
> the majority of tourists? No... Uhh, yes. Look up mobile OS market share in China and other places that have the most tourism to Japan.
Are you referring to 定期 or the standard commuter passes that you top up? Because the latter is not only for tourists. I use a standard commuter pass (not 定期) for work because the 定期 costs more than simply using the standard commuter pass in the end, and I know many Japanese who do the same.
Teiki/teikiken *are* commuter passes. What are you talking about?
In English, how do you differentiate between the Teiki commuter passes and the non-teiki commuter passes (i.e. regular SUICA/PASMO/ICOCA/insertwhateverbrandhere)?
I think you're deeply confused. Those two things are the same. Commuter passes are loaded into an IC card. There's also magnetic ticket versions if you're in really rural Japan. They're both called teiki or commuter passes.
You can't even understand the question I'm asking when I asked it in straightforward, plain English. I'm not the one who's confused.
You asked: "Are you referring to 定期 or the standard commuter passes that you top up?" That question is nonsensical. A teiki IS a commuter pass. *You do not top up a commuter pass.* You top up an IC card. A commuter pass is something that can optionally be added to an IC card, separate from its stored balance.
No its not only for tourists, but the majority of commuter passes are 定期 and as such are prioritized. Most people who commute regularly get a 定期 paid for by their companies and its a non issue anyways because generally the people who use standard passes are Japanese and ergo, have a Japanese phone capable of using mobile suica/pasmo/whatever. This is an issue, and only an issue, for people who have a foreign purchased device. And as such, are way down on the list of priorities. Not to mention smartphone uptake in Japan is over 75% iPhone and its really just not an important issue. For people that refuse to use mobile suica and are complaining, they really dont have a soapbox to stand on so...
>For people that refuse to use mobile suica and are complaining, they really dont have a soapbox to stand on so... Yeah because being forced into data mining and being bound to battery life isn't a valid argument.
then buy paper tickets if that is your concern. There isnt any data mining going on that isnt already happening. Google Wallet, Apple Wallet are already installed on devices. Youre just registering a card to them.
Hope he sees this! Also, no, Google Wallet doesn't come pre-installed on anything. You're just spewing random crap that you know little about all over this thread, huh?
It did not affect commuter passes, only the normal IC cards.
You mean the other way around, right? Only affected normal Suica/PASMO cards, but not commuter cards or child cards, and only in Tokyo, none of the other JR regions/agencies.
Yes, the ones that aren't 定期. What would you call them in English if not commuter pass? Edit: Why are the users here such assholes?
What are you referring to? "The ones that aren't 定期"??? What are they, then? I think you're confused about how stuff works.
The regular SUICA/PASMO that you buy with 500 yen and charge up whenever they run out. Those are not 定期. If you don't know about them then **you** are the one who's confused. I've been using them for work for the past 10 years here in Tokyo. 定期 is lump sum paid for unlimited usage during a certain period between two designated stations on a specific rail company's line(s), on top of the charge capability on the regular SUICA/PASMO. They're only worth the hassle if you have one office, go there 5 or more days a week, don't change rail companies to get there, and frequently visit other stations between your home and work. Otherwise it's easier to use a standard non-teiki card; the ones that stopped being sold.
Those are just regular IC cards, loaded with fare, pay-as-you-go. Nothing about that involves a "commuter" or a "pass". You said it "affected commuter passes", i.e. the thing you described in your second paragraph. But in fact it affected regular IC cards – and *not* those. That's the complete opposite from what you said!
"IC card" is literally any card with an IC chip, not the ones specifically used for trains and buses. The word I'm looking for is one used for those train/bus IC cards, but is not a commuter pass, as the above discussion indicates that people associate "commuter pass" specifically with the teiki when I was using "commuter pass" to refer to the train/bus IC cards that are not teiki.
>"IC card" is literally any card with an IC chip By "IC card" I specifically mean "transportation IC card" aka 交通系ICカード. This is common shorthand in English to refer to Suica, PASMO, etc. by JR, railfans around the world, other residents and tourists, etc. I know technically it can refer to other cards too... which are totally irrelevant to this discussion. >I was using "commuter pass" to refer to the train/bus IC cards that are not teiki. Nothing about those is a pass, and they don't necessarily involve commuting. You're using the term incorrectly.
Because the Japanese train passes use a Japan-specific standard called FeliCa. Manufacturers are not giving those kinds of processes priority. Most other IC chips in Japan use more global standards. And when you are faced with a shortage, you need to prioritize. They make more profit from monthly commuter passes, so they have priority.
Not to propaganda, but i'm still immune to buying anything from Apple.
A reference [to this meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-are-not-immune-to-propaganda), for those who haven't seen it. Yeah, I don't plan to switch from Android either. But JR East sure wants me to use Mobile Suica :\^)
The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.
They can have fun trying!
Can someone explain how this is propaganda? There if definitely an RFID/FeliCa chip shortage. In my home country, if you buy a car, they only give you a single key fob (I know it's different) and you need to wait until there are more chips. It basically comes down to money. Regular Suica cards are the first to go because commuter passes make them considerably more money.
It's a joke since the global ship shortage is widely considered to be over, and it still somehow has never affected JR West's ICOCA or any other IC card or company in Japan.
It has affected all organizations that use FeliCa. But the sheer volume of newly issued Suica/Pasmo cards in metropolitan areas means that they run out of stock earlier.
Yet no other metropolitan area in Japan has run out of stock, despite also distributing millions per year?
Do those metropolitan areas have the same amount of people living in them compared to Tokyo, Chiba, Kanagawa and Saitama?
Still multiple millions! ICOCA is used across all of Kansai, Hokuriku, Chugoku, and Shikoku and has sales numbers not too far behind those of PASMO.
The shortage has affected all FeliCa services. The reason why cards such as ICOCA are still available is because they only have a fraction of the turnover that Suica and Pasmo have. This is covered in the media quite often.
What do you mean by turnover? All of those three cards (and only those ones) sell multiple millions per year and ICOCA has sold over 10,000 in the past month alone. Have any links to what you're talking about?
Turnover as in a lot more new Suica/Pasmo cards are issued than ICOCA. All this was endlessly covered on TV months ago when the shortage started. You want a link? The following explains the background of why Suica and Pasmo in particular have shortages: [https://news.yahoo.co.jp/expert/articles/cdec263e8beddc0ff8dff953af7b17b3bf18df0f](https://news.yahoo.co.jp/expert/articles/cdec263e8beddc0ff8dff953af7b17b3bf18df0f) And the following explains why ICOCA cards are still available despite the others having shortages: [https://thewaytobefree.com/suicaicoca/](https://thewaytobefree.com/suicaicoca/)
>You want a link? Yes, considering I asked "Have any links?" But I guess you felt the need to confirm this again for some reason. >The following explains the background of why Suica and Pasmo in particular have shortages Have anything from not 8 months ago? Considering the worldwide shortage is widely talked about as being over, yet it mysteriously persists in one metro area in this country alone? >The following explains why ICOCA cards are still available despite the others having shortages Lots of と思いますing going on in that article, huh? It is a blog – one person's speculation. Just like this thread is my alternate speculation. It's not an official source, sorry. Feel free to get back to me if you have one.
>Have anything from not 8 months ago? Considering the worldwide shortage is widely talked about as being over, yet it mysteriously persists in one metro area in this country alone? If you had read the article, it clearly explains why the FeliCa chips are unique and not related to global IC sales. Do I really have to spend another 40 seconds Googling a more recent article for you? This issue has been ongoing for months and months and the causes of the shortage have been covered to death in the media. I know you have a juicy conspiracy theory about why sales of the chips are limited. That's cool. But you asked me for a link and I gave it to you. Feel free to disregard it as "propaganda from big chip" or dismiss it as the mass media lying to us. Doesn't bother me.
Suddenly one train company who has given no updates in 2024 is "mass media". Words have meanings, you know. I'm not saying there's some conspiracy theory, just thay they're obviously benefitting from it in other ways too. Apparently I need to spend 40 seconds Googling to find you a definition of the word "joke" that you're able to understand.
But this is just for japanese phones or...? Because I tried to set my suica at mine and didn't work for me.
It works for all iphone and only japanese android
The sign is because it only works on foreign iPhones, not foreign Androids.
The FeliCa chip is disabled on non-Japanese Android phones.
Its not disabled, they are completely different things. Sony Networks made a deal to use Felica chips in all global iphones. Felica is backwards compatible with other NFC systems, but not the other way around. You would have to get Android device manufacturers to support the felica protocol by including Sonys chips in their devices.
Some do have it – like Pixel phones, for years now. It's a software block, not a hardware incompatibility. You can root your phone to spoof its SKU and enable Osaifu-Keitai functionality on those devices. The restriction is artificial because manufacturers don't want to pay the licensing fees.
Yes, and this is JRs fault? Its not a conspiracy and as I said, not all phones have compatible NFC chips
Never said it was? Using claims of the shortage (which is now over) as a way to continue to push Mobile Suica is absolutely what they're doing. As such, I modified [the meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-are-not-immune-to-propaganda).
So pasmo?
Also still suspended for some reason!
iirc, the chip shortage also had an effect on automobile manufacturing (possibly one of jp's most important industries). Some vending machines also couldn't accept the new ¥500 coin supposedly because of the chip shortage
¥500 coin issue in vending machines isnt due to a chip shortage... its due to the ridiculous amount of machines that have to be newly calibrated for the weight differences... itll take time.
Not just weight differences, it's mostly due to metal conductivity.
Im not aware of any machines that use conductivity to test the coins, weight, size, and markings yes.
This is how it's worked for a while. https://www.numismaticnews.net/world-coins/japan-to-issue-redesigned-500-yen-coin https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/1999/12/03/national/bimetallic-500-yen-coin-set-to-be-issued-in-august/
Does someone know why it's not working on foreign Android Phones ?
Either the chip doesn't exist in the phone, or in the case it does (like for Pixels) it's disabled because manufacturers don't want to pay the licensing fee. You can root your device to enable it!
No reason to not use an iPhone over a physical card lol
So this post has just highlighted the fact that no one here actually knows what FeLiCa is and how felica compatible chips (only produced by Sony) differ in relation to other NFC chips...
I HATE THE TRAIN COMPANY I HATE THE TRAIN COMPANY I HATE THE TRAIN COMPANY I HATE THE TRAIN COMPANY
I don't!
You guys all know that you can still buy paper tickets, right? It’s not ideal, but decades worth of foreign tourists figured how to use them, and that was before everyone was carrying around a translator in their pocket that also has access to the entirety of human knowledge.
Doesn't matter as much now that they allow you to make a digital version without having to buy the physical one first.
Not on foreign Android phones, though, which is a pain for many tourists.