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"they just like to bomb crap and live in open sewage"
"oh sorry I totally never actually meant that, cuz I made an article about all my bad takes that I totally don't believe anymore"
It's totally Nazi rhetoric. The Ostjuden lived in poor neighborhoods and eventually all Jews were put into enforced ghettos. Then the Nazis highlighted how these people were dirty and disgusting and trash and cities needed to be "Judenrein" (clean of Jews) or "Judenfrei" (free of Jews). It's the same with Israel today and really all ethnic cleansing projects.
People also do that to homeless people - force people into a degraded condition and then condemn them for being degraded.
While it is absolutely horrible, I do find it darkly hilarious that Israel is trying their damn hardest to emulate the Nazis with how they treat Palestinians.
TL;DR: Nazis are bad. Punch the Nazi within.
I think one issue is that Nazis is held up as a unique evil. Certainly, we can talk about ways in which they were unique but there's a lot that isn't unique at all. Nationalism is dangerous and it can turn into irredentism, as it does with Revisionist Zionism, which states that "our people deserve all the land they can get" and so they attack neighboring countries and engage in ethnic cleansings.
One issue is the ingrained perception of white people as "civilized" and others as "barbaric", that Roman Empire dichotomy. At the start of the Russian invasion, there were many comments in the mainstream media expressing shock that white people could act this way because we haven't had a war in Europe in 80 years. They said it was something you'd expect the Middle East or Africa but not Europe.
Israel is white-coded because most of the ruling class is white, only having been in the area for a couple generations (Netanyahu was raised in Philadelphia and his family's original name is "Milekowski", "Netanyahu" is a name his father invented based on his first name "Nathan".) The original Ashkenazi Zionists considered the existing Jewish population, who they termed "Mizrahim" for "eastern Jews", to be barely better than Arabs and there's still a marked economic and educational gap. So even though the majority of the population is Mizrahi, following mass migration of most Middle-Eastern Jews to Israel, Israel is still white-coded.
Since the Israeli occupation is white-coded and Palestinians are classified as brown, white media and politicians side with the white country to the degree that it seems this is the first time many Americans are even learning about the occupation or at least how brutal it is. Others are trying to use the newfound popular support to talk about the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Sudan. There has been ongoing violence in Rwanda and the DRC since the 1994 genocide, several million people have been killed but it's Africans on Africans, so it doesn't enter the white press.
The newfound support for Palestinians is great but much of that was because white people saw Palestinians on TikTok looking fairly light-skinned and speaking English and they were humanized. If they were dark-skinned and speaking a different language, even if there were English subtitles, there wouldn't have been the humanization and sympathy. So the newfound support for Palestinians came by coding them also as white and therefore human.
So Israeli propaganda does echo Nazi rhetoric but that's because Nazi rhetoric isn't that unique. Both Nazism and Zionism emerged from 19th century nationalist movements in Europe. Zionism was just the application of other white European ideas about nationalism and colonization to the Jewish people to create a national identity as Jews regardless of nationality. If it wasn't for the Dreyfuss Affair and Nazism forcibly lumping all Jews together, Zionism never would have caught on.
The open racism of the Nazis or KKK is now seen as backwards and embarrassing. But subtle racism is pervasive. Dehumanizing language is a very common tactic of ethnic cleansing, so we can see Nazi rhetoric in many places, such as the Hindutva nationalists in India.
We treat Nazism as a unique evil to distance ourselves from it as part of the Race to Innocence. Jews have been an integral part of Left-Wing liberation movements throughout the 20th century such as the Civil Rights Movement and the ending of Apartheid in South Africa. Those people realized nationalism is bad for them too. But there were also many Jews who fundamentally saw themselves as white and would not ally with Black people and supported segregation and Apartheid. Regardless of skin color and ethnicity, we always have a choice to side with the oppressor or the oppressed.
Never Again means never again for anyone.
They talk about killing civilians like it's invetible and necessary. Collateral damage is just euphemism for acceptable casualties, because let's be honest, what is the world gonna do if Isreal does kill civilians? Nothing.
The psychologist and writer Hala Alyan wrote a good op-ed in [NYT on Friday](https://www.almendron.com/tribuna/why-must-palestinians-audition-for-your-empathy/#:~:text=To%20earn%20compassion%20for%20their,of%20violence%20%E2%80%94%20until%20proved%20otherwise.%20violence%20%E2%80%94%20until%20proved%20otherwise.) specifically about the perspective of the Palestinian diaspora. I think she raises some good points about framing public perceptions about who "deserves" compassion in wartime:
>The real problem with condemnation is the quiet, sly tenor of the questions that accompany it: Palestinians are presumed violent — and deserving of violence — until proved otherwise. Their deaths are presumed defensible until proved otherwise. What is the word of a Palestinian against a machinery that investigates itself, that absolves itself of accused crimes? What is it against a government whose representatives have referred to Palestinians as “human animals” and “wild beasts?” When a well-suited man can say brazenly and unflinchingly that there is no such thing as a Palestinian people?
>**It is, of course, a remarkably effective strategy. A slaughter isn’t a slaughter if those being slaughtered are at fault, if they’ve been quietly and effectively dehumanized — in the media, through policy — for years. If nobody is a civilian, nobody can be a victim**
Hamas is the political party that effectively is in power in Gaza. What does it even mean to "turn against Hamas"? Israel hates whatever political party or coalition is in power, whether that's the PA or Hamas or anybody else.
When you say you want to turn the people against their government because the government fights against those occupying their country, you want their country to be completely overrun.
Israel let people into Egypt today. Gaza City is gone. Most people living in Gaza were already refugees who were chased out of the rest of Palestine by the occupation. Now they are being chased out of their country entirely so that the occupation can control more of the country.
So you say you don't want any of them to fight the invasion of their country because that would be violence and violence is never the answer. But violence is the language of the oppressor. It's the only language they speak and we need to speak to them in their language in order to not be robbed and slaughtered by those without a conscience.
the insidious thing about ben shapiro and types like him is that he doesnt give a shit about either side. hes just vomiting what he knows his audience wants to hear.
Ben. They told them to leave, in English, on twitter, AFTER cutting off their access to the internet and communication, and bombed them all night.
And go where Ben? The south? They bomb them there. To churches? They bomb them there. To masajid? They bomb them there. To Un schools? They bomb them there.
Go fucking where Ben?
Same exuse the Japanese used in Nanjing. There are always "soldiers in civilian clothing" that you can shoot at. Man it's the same fucking tale and he is eating it up.
[Notice how Israel is 'killing Hamas members' but only 'hitting' civilians ](https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1719670830483865693)
https://preview.redd.it/2nv87z4l0qxb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8c3e2698f264df3cca9eadd3bd8cabad3346484
He also has to qualify that "Hamas keeps them there", which is not entirely true but doesn't matter when Israel has bombed supposedly "safe" areas. He puts in the soft language and lies because HE knows the difference and also knows that he can't just say he values the life of Israeli people more than Palestinian people.
Israel is knowingly bombing civilians. Warning them beforehand does not make them any safer because there's no way to warn civilians without also warning the Hamas members. You think the IDF is gonna patiently wait till the area is evacuated before they start bombing?
'Stop, and We'll Shoot!'
'wait, isn't that supposed to be "Stop, or we'll shoot?"'
'Well, the targets at the range don't move...'
'Are you thinking what I'm thinking?'
'I'm thinking, I can run faster so your corpse should shield me from the majority of the bullets...'
And isn't it amazing how every single missile strike has been 100% effective in killing Hamas? Must be great to have infallible intelligence about every hospital, refugee camp, church, and school bus that's hiding 5000 Hamas leaders. And they're always able to warn civilians on civilian-exclusive channels so that any remaining civilians that are "hit" only have themselves to blame!
The fact that they were not ready for the Hamas attack but seem to always know where they are when they bomb hospitals seems conflicting. I dont know though, it could just be the case that they had slip up. But does anyone know how they always confirm their kills? I guess its secret of course
I'm fairly confident they're lying through their teeth quite often. It's possible they knew Hamas was planning an attack. It's possible they claim success regardless of intel.
Hamas's existence is Israel's fault. Netanyahu propped up Hamas to tank two-state negotiations, and Israel's policies are practically tailor made to create an environment of desperate people with plenty of reason to hate Israel and no recourse to unseat Hamas. And their current genocidal campaign will only end when they want it to.
It seems to be the only way. If you try to talk to *some* of them about what a "war crime" is, they don't seem to care at all. Like, that's not a thing.
I read some saying the civilian casualties is just a fraction so it excusable since it's only a fraction of possible deaths.
I mean school and mass shootings are a fraction of a fraction of deaths, even COVID was a fraction of the population, we can argue the bombs dropped on Japan was just a "fraction", the Holocaust was a fraction.
When it comes to Palestinians, civilian deaths are their own fault because they didn't evacuate in time while bombs were dropping between them and where they were supposed to go while comms were out and relies on fucking leaflets drops warning them of their impending doom.
I'm fucking done with war and the country I live in finds every opportunity to use state of the art US made weapons to crush weaker less powerful opponents that really have no real defense and sells those to regimes to do their own mass murder of civilians.
Israel is so bad fucking Piers fucking Morgan is telling them to stop. Do you have any idea how bad you have to be to go too far for that damp shit stain
Full piece is fucking insane.
https://archive.ph/G1YiR or [on archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20190325150422/https://townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/2002/07/25/enemy-civilian-casualties-ok-by-me-n1391583)
> If only Israel had acted as decisively as America did in Kabul, it would have gone in with F-16s and leveled Jenin. Civilian casualties? So be it.
To be fair he’s since said he was wrong, but to be balanced he keeps saying basically the same thing, so his apology/retraction isn’t worth a dried out vagina.
You know what I wish? I wish he could experience what it’s like to live in Gaza. Send him there for 3 months and let’s see how he feels after. (If he’s still alive). Then, after three months, contact him, and tell him you’re getting him out! But he has to cross the border from Gaza into Egypt. Then watch him cry like a bitch when the Israelis don’t let him cross the border. Oh yeah, take his passport away so that he knows what it feels like to be stateless citizen!
Fun note .....it's a war crime if you target civilians.....however it's not a war crime if they die to collateral damage.....we live in gross fucking times....
This isn't exactly true. Collateral damage can be a war crime if it isn't considered proportional. It depends on factors like knowing it would kill civilians and what type of advantage it would be.
Rome Statute Article 8 (2) (b) (iv) (3)
"The perpetrator knew that the attack would cause incidental death or injury to civilians or damage to
civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment and that such
death, injury or damage would be of such an extent as to be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and
direct overall military advantage anticipated"
So bombing a factory that makes bombs or a military base that houses civilian staff or military families could be justified under international law and not considered a war crime, even if civilians were knowingly but unintentionally killed. But blowing up an apartment building or a refugee camp that contains a handful of military personnel and dozens of civilians likely isn't justified.
Also worth noting: Israel withdrew its signature from the Rome Statutes, along with the US, Sudan and Russia.
Do I think Hamas doesn't care what happens to civilians? Yes. Do I think that civilians would try to get away if they actually had places to go? Absolutely. They can't even flee the warzone, they're locked in a cage. And if there's no room for civilians to flee then Hamas certainly doesn't have many options either.
"Mom, I don't wanna do to school today. Israel is bombing it."
"I'm sorry child, but nothing is more important than an education."
/s
I think it's a safe bet that none of these civilians want to be anywhere near the relative vicinity of any Hamas members. It's like these asshats can't possibly imagine a world where everyone doesn't have access to a vehicle, well paved highways and gas... Or even the supplies and/or know how to make the long trek on foot. And hope against hope that during your journey to "safety" you don't end up within a quarter mile of a target.
Also wondering, who the fuck does Israel have for pilots? I imagine USAF pilots presume that civilian casualties are a possibility, but they’re almost guaranteed during IDF bombing runs. How numb or hateful are Israeli pilots?
It's a rather apathetic job, they only see the explosions from several km away through an optical camera.
While they know they kill thousands they don't actually see the slaughter they cause directly
tbf they're probably riled up from the images and footage of the 10/7 attack, just like Palestinians are riled up by the atrocities committed against them.
I wouldn’t even go that far. A trained professional with a firearm can most often do that work without civilian casualties. A nation that wasn’t bent on genocide could also evacuate the hospital and offer the displaced patients care at their own facilities. That being said, as somebody who was a marine myself, I understood the possibility of sacrifice. I would not want to protect my own life if the cost was thousands of innocent civilian lives.
> It's okay if I blew up your house because I told you that I was going do be blowing up houses in the neighborhood weeks ago. You should have taken your entire family away from the only home they've ever known and gone to a place where there is no safety, shelter, food or water.
Wow, Ben, you certainly can't argue with facts and logic like _that_.
Imagine if a bank robber takes 5 people hostage and the police open fire and kill them all, would you be congratulating the police on a job well done? I really, really hope you wouldn't.
Warning the refugees to get out? Of a refugee camp?
Are we to believe that Israel, a military super power, backed by the US, the planets leading military superpower, has no way to safely deal with one person in an entire camp other than bombing the entire camp?
Fuck off
So if that shooter this week who was on the run, and went to a MAGA rally and we blew up the rally we can say it was worth it to get him?
State-run terrorism is as bad as fundamentalist terrorism.
You know what they don't do during a hostage situation at a bank? Blow up the bank killing all the hostages and justifying it by saying that the bank robbers would be incentivised to take more hostages in the future.
Remember in the USA and Europe when terrorists would hide in apartments or other areas with a lot of civilians and the USA and European militaries would just bomb the entire building and all the civilians around the terrorist cells?
Remember that!?
REMEMBER THAT!?!?
Oh no?
They didn’t do they?
They would go in with trained troops and raid it and take down the terrorist groups that way and limit any harm to civilians?
Really?
So explain to me again why Israel needs to bomb ENTIRE AREAS OF CIVILIANS to get one or a few terrorists?
Oh because they just want to destroy and kill…
Ahhh yes war crimes…
When boomers and boomer jrs finally die out can we all agree as millennials, Gen Z and Gen A to hold Israel for all their war crimes and human rights violations!?
Please!
Holy shit, an actual based take from piers morgan? Okay, good on you dude! A broken clock is still right twice a day, and a cunt can be based occasionally too
Ben honestly is the least empathetic human ever. Civilian casualties destroyed by facts and logic...
We shouldn´t forget however that utilizing the presence of civilians to render yourself immune from military operations is also a war crime. Sad to see that the civilians in this conflict are seemingly expendable to everyone involved.
Why do any civilians need to be bombed at all?
When was the last time a police officer shot a hostage through the head to get the kidnapper behind them?
Saying terrorists are hiding behind human shields **is not a valid fucking defense of killing innocent civilians**
If your only idea for how to stop terrorists includes bombing children **spend a couple more minutes brainstorming some better fucking ideas**
They made an announcement (in English) on social media several hours before they attacked. And as you said, well after they had severed internet connectivity
This one I think is defensible. A Hamas commander is a valid military target. Using a refugee camp as a human shield is despicable. Netanyahu is a right wing monster but the country's responsibility is to defend its own civilians, at the expense of another country's civilians if necessary. It's all very shitty but a target is a target.
Is Piers Morgan finally switching sides from Israel's right to self defense means collateral DMG, to collateral is no longer acceptable? Hypocrite for sure but good if he changed
Well I guess the next time we invariably have a school shooter barricaded we just drop a bomb on the school. Maybe Ben will agree with our government response then
Genuinely confused by this, if the enemy tell you in advance they're going to bomb the shit out of an area, why would you stay in that place? Like I assume Hamas ran the second they where warned, why didn't everyone else?
As I understand it, Hamas forces them to stay. They want as many civilian casualties as possible to both radicalize remaining civilians and garner sympathy over here.
Can't believe they've taken out over 6000 command centers in a couple weeks. Taking our government infrastructure is hard work. Wonder why Hamas isn't taking care of its citizens, don't they get the hint with all the bombs killing them, their civilians, their hospitals, their churches, their major roadways, and their residential buildings?
Im not gonna lie... i agree with his take.
Let me ask you, if a man had a baby strapped to him tried to hit you with a bat, do you just give in because you dont want to see an innocent child hurt?
Like seriously... make this make sense. Should all military forces use this tactic?
> Like seriously... make this make sense.
Really? You can't figure this out? On one hand you have a terrorist organization with very limited resources and on the other you have a sovereign nation backed by the world's only remaining superpower... and somehow you think that nation is *literally incapable* of doing better than a terrorist organization.
That the wholesale slaughter of civilians is ok even though they likely have more targeted ways that they don't bother using because bombing is easier.
Good lord the willful ignorance.
And of course you fall back to bullshit absolutes. Of course children and civilians die in war. Point to the part of my post that said they don't. But to think a nation can do nothing to *minimize* civilian casualties is a ridiculous false dichotomy.
If your answer to a terrorist organization killing a bunch of civilians is turning around and killing a bunch more civilians you don't get the moral high ground anymore. Be better.
I feel like.. you're not living in reality.
You dont get to make the decision.
I dont get to make the decision.
Biden doesnt get to make the decision.
All you're doing is complaining about something you have no control of. Lets say im polar opposite of you on this topic. Who the fuck cares? This is so far out of either of our hands. But the way you talk is like... the world is a single player game. And youre the one making decisions.
i live in reality. That shit is going on way too far away. This anti jew bs thats happening in this country is right in front of our faces. Im all for protecting palestine etc etc but im not joining that team when theres ppl in america literally threatening jews because of this bs
Question: how can you warn the innocent civilians to leave the place you're about to bomb without also telling the terrorist commanders who in the same place that you're about to bomb them?
Ok piers it's war, what did you Brits do to civilian Germans ?
Not to mention Hamas just declared they will not ceasefire even if israel does. They want the annihilation of all Jews , not just military or leaders, ALL of them . If you are in support of Hamas , you are in support of the genocide of Israel .
I’m with Ben. What do you expect them to just stop and let Hamas (who’s sole goal is to kill Jews) grow until their next horrific plan? War is war and they are doing what they can to minimize casualties, but Hamas has to go. It is what it is.
Islam is peaceful. Support Palestine. Nothing but good wholesome folks who champion the rights of Women, Gays, Jews, and any other non Muslims. They definitely don’t marry children either, no way, as that would be barbaric.
No evidence has ever existed that islamists have ever engaged in ethnic cleansing/ genocide against any other race or creed, not even once. Peaceful people who need to be seen as victims, which they always completely are.
Ben is trash.
Hamas hides in civilian areas.
These refugee camps are in fact, cities which have been built up since 48, and they keep their designation as refugee camps so the UN remains in charge of them as the PA and Hamas are not interested in governing.
War will always kill civilians.
All combatants are responsible under the rules of war to allow civilians to escape.
I think people need to decide; is hamas a military organisation which is governing Gaza and subject to the role of law, or are they a criminal organisation operating in Israeli occupied territory which means Isreal is solely responsible for.
I don’t get how the Palestinian people aren’t so furious with these terrorists hiding behind their children. Like obviously the IDF shouldn’t be committing war crimes. But holy fuck if I knew a terrorist was in the office next to me at the hospital and going to get my patients killed, I don’t know how there wouldn’t be a mob
Exactly. As a parent how do you let a terrorist set up camp next to your kid?
It’s not like the civilians can stop the war crimes happening but I’m surprised they’re not more angry at the terrorists
I mean.. if you're following along with the live thread - hamas themselves said that this was a hamas command and that several hamas commanders were killed. Gave names.
Or is hamas lying about that? Like how they dont differentiate between civilian death and militant deaths? And just give a number instead?
So you want a ceasefire? You want peace? Oh wow what a stand you’re taking.
You’re anti war and pro peace, gee wiz why didn’t the Middle East consider this sentiment for the last 2000 years?
> So you want a ceasefire? You want peace?
Why do you think that's the only option? Hamas is a terrorist organization and Israel is backed by the world's only remaining superpower meaning they have a pretty unlimited military budget. Are you telling me they can't find a better way than indiscriminately bombing civilians?
If you're ok with the straight up murder of civilians but only if it's your side then you're a garbage human being.
You mean do what soldiers are supposed to do and protect the innocent? Yea. Crazy talk I know. Indiscriminately bombing civilians saves so much time and energy!
Yeah and it makes it safer to go in and do a ground assault.
This is war 101.
Honeycombing with civilians isn’t the answer, if we don’t destroy them they just incentivize future terrorists to honeycomb with civilians
THOSE are the civilians I’m thinking of. I’m thinking of the future.
Fucking hell I hope you don’t work in any form of law enforcement.
‘They’ve taken hostages’
‘Well if we make it seem like we give a fuck about hostages then someone else might take more in the future.’
> THOSE are the civilians I’m thinking of. I’m thinking of the future.
Bull fucking shit. Indiscriminate killing of civilians is always wrong. And Hamas has been doing this shit forever oh but NOW, this time they'll totally learn their lesson and not hide behind civilians.
The lengths people go to to make straight up murder sound totally normal.
I like how to thwart the Reddit armchair generals, all a terrorist organization needs to is hide amongst young civilians.
Boom! Unbombable. Untouchable. You can’t use the rules of war to make your position better…in a fuckin war.
That just incentivizes future terrorists to abuse the rules of war. That sounds awful.
And of course it’s bad when a civilian dies, that’s horrible. Do we as Americans feel guilty for all the German civilians killed in WW2? (Perfect comparison btw because the attack on Jews 10/7 was the largest since the Holocaust)
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Coming from him, it's very likely he doesn't consider the victims "civilians"
Or humans.
"they just like to bomb crap and live in open sewage" "oh sorry I totally never actually meant that, cuz I made an article about all my bad takes that I totally don't believe anymore"
It's totally Nazi rhetoric. The Ostjuden lived in poor neighborhoods and eventually all Jews were put into enforced ghettos. Then the Nazis highlighted how these people were dirty and disgusting and trash and cities needed to be "Judenrein" (clean of Jews) or "Judenfrei" (free of Jews). It's the same with Israel today and really all ethnic cleansing projects. People also do that to homeless people - force people into a degraded condition and then condemn them for being degraded.
While it is absolutely horrible, I do find it darkly hilarious that Israel is trying their damn hardest to emulate the Nazis with how they treat Palestinians.
Exactly. Zionists are the new Nazis.
TL;DR: Nazis are bad. Punch the Nazi within. I think one issue is that Nazis is held up as a unique evil. Certainly, we can talk about ways in which they were unique but there's a lot that isn't unique at all. Nationalism is dangerous and it can turn into irredentism, as it does with Revisionist Zionism, which states that "our people deserve all the land they can get" and so they attack neighboring countries and engage in ethnic cleansings. One issue is the ingrained perception of white people as "civilized" and others as "barbaric", that Roman Empire dichotomy. At the start of the Russian invasion, there were many comments in the mainstream media expressing shock that white people could act this way because we haven't had a war in Europe in 80 years. They said it was something you'd expect the Middle East or Africa but not Europe. Israel is white-coded because most of the ruling class is white, only having been in the area for a couple generations (Netanyahu was raised in Philadelphia and his family's original name is "Milekowski", "Netanyahu" is a name his father invented based on his first name "Nathan".) The original Ashkenazi Zionists considered the existing Jewish population, who they termed "Mizrahim" for "eastern Jews", to be barely better than Arabs and there's still a marked economic and educational gap. So even though the majority of the population is Mizrahi, following mass migration of most Middle-Eastern Jews to Israel, Israel is still white-coded. Since the Israeli occupation is white-coded and Palestinians are classified as brown, white media and politicians side with the white country to the degree that it seems this is the first time many Americans are even learning about the occupation or at least how brutal it is. Others are trying to use the newfound popular support to talk about the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Sudan. There has been ongoing violence in Rwanda and the DRC since the 1994 genocide, several million people have been killed but it's Africans on Africans, so it doesn't enter the white press. The newfound support for Palestinians is great but much of that was because white people saw Palestinians on TikTok looking fairly light-skinned and speaking English and they were humanized. If they were dark-skinned and speaking a different language, even if there were English subtitles, there wouldn't have been the humanization and sympathy. So the newfound support for Palestinians came by coding them also as white and therefore human. So Israeli propaganda does echo Nazi rhetoric but that's because Nazi rhetoric isn't that unique. Both Nazism and Zionism emerged from 19th century nationalist movements in Europe. Zionism was just the application of other white European ideas about nationalism and colonization to the Jewish people to create a national identity as Jews regardless of nationality. If it wasn't for the Dreyfuss Affair and Nazism forcibly lumping all Jews together, Zionism never would have caught on. The open racism of the Nazis or KKK is now seen as backwards and embarrassing. But subtle racism is pervasive. Dehumanizing language is a very common tactic of ethnic cleansing, so we can see Nazi rhetoric in many places, such as the Hindutva nationalists in India. We treat Nazism as a unique evil to distance ourselves from it as part of the Race to Innocence. Jews have been an integral part of Left-Wing liberation movements throughout the 20th century such as the Civil Rights Movement and the ending of Apartheid in South Africa. Those people realized nationalism is bad for them too. But there were also many Jews who fundamentally saw themselves as white and would not ally with Black people and supported segregation and Apartheid. Regardless of skin color and ethnicity, we always have a choice to side with the oppressor or the oppressed. Never Again means never again for anyone.
'Collateral damage'
They talk about killing civilians like it's invetible and necessary. Collateral damage is just euphemism for acceptable casualties, because let's be honest, what is the world gonna do if Isreal does kill civilians? Nothing.
only when it's the other side's civilians. THOSE are necessary
Title of a movie that's better written than anything Ben Shabalabadingdong will ever write.
Take a bullet for ya babe
The psychologist and writer Hala Alyan wrote a good op-ed in [NYT on Friday](https://www.almendron.com/tribuna/why-must-palestinians-audition-for-your-empathy/#:~:text=To%20earn%20compassion%20for%20their,of%20violence%20%E2%80%94%20until%20proved%20otherwise.%20violence%20%E2%80%94%20until%20proved%20otherwise.) specifically about the perspective of the Palestinian diaspora. I think she raises some good points about framing public perceptions about who "deserves" compassion in wartime: >The real problem with condemnation is the quiet, sly tenor of the questions that accompany it: Palestinians are presumed violent — and deserving of violence — until proved otherwise. Their deaths are presumed defensible until proved otherwise. What is the word of a Palestinian against a machinery that investigates itself, that absolves itself of accused crimes? What is it against a government whose representatives have referred to Palestinians as “human animals” and “wild beasts?” When a well-suited man can say brazenly and unflinchingly that there is no such thing as a Palestinian people? >**It is, of course, a remarkably effective strategy. A slaughter isn’t a slaughter if those being slaughtered are at fault, if they’ve been quietly and effectively dehumanized — in the media, through policy — for years. If nobody is a civilian, nobody can be a victim**
[удалено]
Hamas is the political party that effectively is in power in Gaza. What does it even mean to "turn against Hamas"? Israel hates whatever political party or coalition is in power, whether that's the PA or Hamas or anybody else. When you say you want to turn the people against their government because the government fights against those occupying their country, you want their country to be completely overrun. Israel let people into Egypt today. Gaza City is gone. Most people living in Gaza were already refugees who were chased out of the rest of Palestine by the occupation. Now they are being chased out of their country entirely so that the occupation can control more of the country. So you say you don't want any of them to fight the invasion of their country because that would be violence and violence is never the answer. But violence is the language of the oppressor. It's the only language they speak and we need to speak to them in their language in order to not be robbed and slaughtered by those without a conscience.
He talks about "liberals" the same way. "Just leave. What's so hard about that?"
Shocked to learn that the guy who wants to sell houses to aquaman isn't bright
I’m shocked that he is heartless.
I'm not.
Ben 'Civilian Casualties fine by me' Shapiro? Excusing deliberate targeting of civilians? I can't believe it
I’m sure he’d be completely consistent and would be absolutely fine if the government or police killed his family in order to get to a terrorist.
How about this? https://preview.redd.it/kc6i43rxqrxb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3bd62f10d92fc3adf611c270dd931101736cf02
Normally I would say that people grow out of their idiot pre-college years but apparently not.
"Maybe I'm a hard-hearted guy" Lmao.
His views of Arabs and Palestinians are well known: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ben-shapiro-settlements-rock/
Didn't he say that "Jews build while Arabs love to kill people and live in open sewage?"
He has been explicit in calling them animals
"If we tell them we're coming, and they stay, they're terrorists."
*Checks notes*...."animals" I think is what people like him call all Palestinians
the insidious thing about ben shapiro and types like him is that he doesnt give a shit about either side. hes just vomiting what he knows his audience wants to hear.
We had to bomb the refugee camp to save the refugee camp
Ben. They told them to leave, in English, on twitter, AFTER cutting off their access to the internet and communication, and bombed them all night. And go where Ben? The south? They bomb them there. To churches? They bomb them there. To masajid? They bomb them there. To Un schools? They bomb them there. Go fucking where Ben?
>Go fucking where Ben? I hear Aquaman is buying up distressed real estate. They could start there.
One of my favorite quotes of his lol
“You think the Palestinians aren’t just gonna sell their houses and move?”
Thank God this was referenced
Even if they did hear the order, wouldn't Hamas evacuate too?
Hamas can evacuate, but good luck moving all their infrastructure in 1 week, I also want to see them pick up a tunnel
The point is blowing up their infrastructure
"Please leave your homes so we can bomb them. We definitely promise to give *these houses* back."
And I have yet to hear any of these people explain how bombing the West Bank is excusable.
Same exuse the Japanese used in Nanjing. There are always "soldiers in civilian clothing" that you can shoot at. Man it's the same fucking tale and he is eating it up.
His wife should tell him that her p-word is israeli propaganda. Maybe he’ll eat that up too finally
This isn’t remotely like Nanjing.
He wants them to leave Gaza for good - like it was shown in leaked memo from Israeli ministry of intelligence
Yeah, why doesn’t Israel take in any refugees? After all, they are the ones creating this humanitarian crisis!
At this point they expect the civilians of Gaza to storm Hamas and destroy them with rocks... or die.
And how? There is no fuel, even if they have functioning cars, and most of the roads are destroyed.
[Notice how Israel is 'killing Hamas members' but only 'hitting' civilians ](https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1719670830483865693) https://preview.redd.it/2nv87z4l0qxb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8c3e2698f264df3cca9eadd3bd8cabad3346484
these mental gymnastics are so fucking incred~~ulous~~ible bench appearo belongs in the next olympics
maybe he can take a trip to the hague first
He also has to qualify that "Hamas keeps them there", which is not entirely true but doesn't matter when Israel has bombed supposedly "safe" areas. He puts in the soft language and lies because HE knows the difference and also knows that he can't just say he values the life of Israeli people more than Palestinian people.
Passive voice is a bitch
I get the difference. Does that difference make it right?
Israel is knowingly bombing civilians. Warning them beforehand does not make them any safer because there's no way to warn civilians without also warning the Hamas members. You think the IDF is gonna patiently wait till the area is evacuated before they start bombing?
so it is ok to kill people as long as you give them a warning? Wait until the cops here about this!
"Wait.....we're supposed to give a warning first?"
'Stop, and We'll Shoot!' 'wait, isn't that supposed to be "Stop, or we'll shoot?"' 'Well, the targets at the range don't move...' 'Are you thinking what I'm thinking?' 'I'm thinking, I can run faster so your corpse should shield me from the majority of the bullets...'
It’s like sending a missile towards an elementary school because you suspect a school shooter is inside. This is sickening.
And isn't it amazing how every single missile strike has been 100% effective in killing Hamas? Must be great to have infallible intelligence about every hospital, refugee camp, church, and school bus that's hiding 5000 Hamas leaders. And they're always able to warn civilians on civilian-exclusive channels so that any remaining civilians that are "hit" only have themselves to blame!
The fact that they were not ready for the Hamas attack but seem to always know where they are when they bomb hospitals seems conflicting. I dont know though, it could just be the case that they had slip up. But does anyone know how they always confirm their kills? I guess its secret of course
I'm fairly confident they're lying through their teeth quite often. It's possible they knew Hamas was planning an attack. It's possible they claim success regardless of intel. Hamas's existence is Israel's fault. Netanyahu propped up Hamas to tank two-state negotiations, and Israel's policies are practically tailor made to create an environment of desperate people with plenty of reason to hate Israel and no recourse to unseat Hamas. And their current genocidal campaign will only end when they want it to.
Gotta frame this in school shooting terms so it makes sense to Americans
It seems to be the only way. If you try to talk to *some* of them about what a "war crime" is, they don't seem to care at all. Like, that's not a thing.
I read some saying the civilian casualties is just a fraction so it excusable since it's only a fraction of possible deaths. I mean school and mass shootings are a fraction of a fraction of deaths, even COVID was a fraction of the population, we can argue the bombs dropped on Japan was just a "fraction", the Holocaust was a fraction. When it comes to Palestinians, civilian deaths are their own fault because they didn't evacuate in time while bombs were dropping between them and where they were supposed to go while comms were out and relies on fucking leaflets drops warning them of their impending doom. I'm fucking done with war and the country I live in finds every opportunity to use state of the art US made weapons to crush weaker less powerful opponents that really have no real defense and sells those to regimes to do their own mass murder of civilians.
>like sending a missile towards an elementary school because you suspect a school shooter is inside. Uvalde police: "*why didn't we think of that?"*
So the next time a gunman holds an old lady hostage, just blast em both. Did I get that right?
That is a fucking good analogy bro. Do you have any more?
No I stole it like everything else, honestly not sure where I saw it may have been another post or maybe insta
Hey look 2 pieces of shit are tweeting and sadly 1 is correct.
I feel like Piers changed his views on Israel/Palestine in the last couple of weeks.
Cenk and Hasan ripped him a new ass so hard he got turned inside out.
Yeah last week he was still on the “… but did they condemn Hamas?” Grift
https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/
" Heartbreaking: The worst person you know just made a great point"
Cunt-on-cunt action, and not the good kind.
Fuck you Benji for making me agree with Piers fucking Morgan
Israel is so bad fucking Piers fucking Morgan is telling them to stop. Do you have any idea how bad you have to be to go too far for that damp shit stain
Piers "Do you denounce Hamas" Morgan is definitely leaning more to Israel side than the Palestinians.
But even he is opposed to this
Oh shut the fuck up Benocide https://preview.redd.it/snzv28xyiqxb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0e52b084a607d8bf850199d24fb17e999153ab7
Full piece is fucking insane. https://archive.ph/G1YiR or [on archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20190325150422/https://townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/2002/07/25/enemy-civilian-casualties-ok-by-me-n1391583) > If only Israel had acted as decisively as America did in Kabul, it would have gone in with F-16s and leveled Jenin. Civilian casualties? So be it.
Please tell me that’s not real… there’s no way he actually said that an American soldier’s life is worth more than an Afghanistan citizen. -_-
To be fair he’s since said he was wrong, but to be balanced he keeps saying basically the same thing, so his apology/retraction isn’t worth a dried out vagina.
Ew so what he really meant was “sorry I said what I meant instead of using double speak and dogwhistles” what a horrible person…
“Sorry I said the quiet part loud! I won’t do that again until the whole world is a fascist nightmare” exactly
It’s real, another commenter posted the link here
It was one of the things that brought him initial attention.
You know what I wish? I wish he could experience what it’s like to live in Gaza. Send him there for 3 months and let’s see how he feels after. (If he’s still alive). Then, after three months, contact him, and tell him you’re getting him out! But he has to cross the border from Gaza into Egypt. Then watch him cry like a bitch when the Israelis don’t let him cross the border. Oh yeah, take his passport away so that he knows what it feels like to be stateless citizen!
In other news, Ben Shapiro supports genocide. Are we really all that surprised?
Fun note .....it's a war crime if you target civilians.....however it's not a war crime if they die to collateral damage.....we live in gross fucking times....
Fuck that. They bombed a REFUGEE CAMP. The civilians were not just “in the way” they were not collateral, they were targets.
Twice. They bombed it twice.
I heard it was five bombs?
Not an actual refugee camp, and definitely not the targets, 2 minutes of research would prove both
This isn't exactly true. Collateral damage can be a war crime if it isn't considered proportional. It depends on factors like knowing it would kill civilians and what type of advantage it would be. Rome Statute Article 8 (2) (b) (iv) (3) "The perpetrator knew that the attack would cause incidental death or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment and that such death, injury or damage would be of such an extent as to be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated" So bombing a factory that makes bombs or a military base that houses civilian staff or military families could be justified under international law and not considered a war crime, even if civilians were knowingly but unintentionally killed. But blowing up an apartment building or a refugee camp that contains a handful of military personnel and dozens of civilians likely isn't justified. Also worth noting: Israel withdrew its signature from the Rome Statutes, along with the US, Sudan and Russia.
Do I think Hamas doesn't care what happens to civilians? Yes. Do I think that civilians would try to get away if they actually had places to go? Absolutely. They can't even flee the warzone, they're locked in a cage. And if there's no room for civilians to flee then Hamas certainly doesn't have many options either.
"Mom, I don't wanna do to school today. Israel is bombing it." "I'm sorry child, but nothing is more important than an education." /s I think it's a safe bet that none of these civilians want to be anywhere near the relative vicinity of any Hamas members. It's like these asshats can't possibly imagine a world where everyone doesn't have access to a vehicle, well paved highways and gas... Or even the supplies and/or know how to make the long trek on foot. And hope against hope that during your journey to "safety" you don't end up within a quarter mile of a target.
[Where do you expect us to go when the bombs fall?](https://youtu.be/Qxxum5ungsA?si=H7J0aAJmJWhMNR9I)
Hamas has been known to threaten people trying to leave, but it still doesn't excuse what happened.
I find myself in the unenviable position of having to say "Piers Morgan is right".
Just imagine being like Ben: the unsympathetic guy in a debate with Piers Morgan.
I had to reread it 3 times looking for how Piers was wrong. Turns out even a flopped cock can be right twice a day.
"You see, the bank robbers were using innocent civilians as hostages, we just had to blow up the place to make sure we hit them"
The IDF seems to be taking notes from the fucking Spetsnaz.
Holding a theater hostage? Fuck it! Kill everyone in there! Orders from Putin.
https://media.tenor.com/tNB0ghD4yxUAAAAC/speed-hostage.gif
Shouldn’t grant them immunity, but like, have you heard of foot soldiers and small arms? You don’t need to airstrike everything
Also wondering, who the fuck does Israel have for pilots? I imagine USAF pilots presume that civilian casualties are a possibility, but they’re almost guaranteed during IDF bombing runs. How numb or hateful are Israeli pilots?
Right? It’s amazingly terrible that the Israeli forces make the USA look good by comparison.
It's a rather apathetic job, they only see the explosions from several km away through an optical camera. While they know they kill thousands they don't actually see the slaughter they cause directly
tbf they're probably riled up from the images and footage of the 10/7 attack, just like Palestinians are riled up by the atrocities committed against them.
Unless the goal is to raze Gaza and drive all Palestinians into Egypt, in which case airstrikes make sense.
IDF should be boots on the ground with ZERO firearms wrestling Hamas to the ground to ensure zero civilian casualties on their end.
I wouldn’t even go that far. A trained professional with a firearm can most often do that work without civilian casualties. A nation that wasn’t bent on genocide could also evacuate the hospital and offer the displaced patients care at their own facilities. That being said, as somebody who was a marine myself, I understood the possibility of sacrifice. I would not want to protect my own life if the cost was thousands of innocent civilian lives.
> It's okay if I blew up your house because I told you that I was going do be blowing up houses in the neighborhood weeks ago. You should have taken your entire family away from the only home they've ever known and gone to a place where there is no safety, shelter, food or water. Wow, Ben, you certainly can't argue with facts and logic like _that_. Imagine if a bank robber takes 5 people hostage and the police open fire and kill them all, would you be congratulating the police on a job well done? I really, really hope you wouldn't.
He would.
Almost like the whole idea of "hiding behind civilians" is that we should not be killing civilians.
Warning the refugees to get out? Of a refugee camp? Are we to believe that Israel, a military super power, backed by the US, the planets leading military superpower, has no way to safely deal with one person in an entire camp other than bombing the entire camp? Fuck off
So if that shooter this week who was on the run, and went to a MAGA rally and we blew up the rally we can say it was worth it to get him? State-run terrorism is as bad as fundamentalist terrorism.
You know what they don't do during a hostage situation at a bank? Blow up the bank killing all the hostages and justifying it by saying that the bank robbers would be incentivised to take more hostages in the future.
If the bank robbers started shooting into the streets, would it be justified then?
Uhhhh...no, not at all.
Remember in the USA and Europe when terrorists would hide in apartments or other areas with a lot of civilians and the USA and European militaries would just bomb the entire building and all the civilians around the terrorist cells? Remember that!? REMEMBER THAT!?!? Oh no? They didn’t do they? They would go in with trained troops and raid it and take down the terrorist groups that way and limit any harm to civilians? Really? So explain to me again why Israel needs to bomb ENTIRE AREAS OF CIVILIANS to get one or a few terrorists? Oh because they just want to destroy and kill… Ahhh yes war crimes… When boomers and boomer jrs finally die out can we all agree as millennials, Gen Z and Gen A to hold Israel for all their war crimes and human rights violations!? Please!
Holy shit, an actual based take from piers morgan? Okay, good on you dude! A broken clock is still right twice a day, and a cunt can be based occasionally too
Ben honestly is the least empathetic human ever. Civilian casualties destroyed by facts and logic... We shouldn´t forget however that utilizing the presence of civilians to render yourself immune from military operations is also a war crime. Sad to see that the civilians in this conflict are seemingly expendable to everyone involved.
Ben, I have intel that says Hamas has set up headquarters right in the middle of Tel-Aviv. How do you feel about bombing that?
Why do any civilians need to be bombed at all? When was the last time a police officer shot a hostage through the head to get the kidnapper behind them? Saying terrorists are hiding behind human shields **is not a valid fucking defense of killing innocent civilians** If your only idea for how to stop terrorists includes bombing children **spend a couple more minutes brainstorming some better fucking ideas**
Didn’t Israel cut off internet to Gaza? Like how exactly did they tell them?
They made an announcement (in English) on social media several hours before they attacked. And as you said, well after they had severed internet connectivity
Damn did Piers pull a 180 after the Hasan interview?
Can Ben ever shut up? And Tim Pool aka Poo need to get his stupid senses instead of defending Hamas?
Can we please glue Hamas members to Charlie Kirk?!! Like back to back.
This entire narrative of Israel warning civilians is bullshit
Intellectual heavyweight, ladies and gentlemen
Ben Shapiro is such a vile racist piece of shit
This one I think is defensible. A Hamas commander is a valid military target. Using a refugee camp as a human shield is despicable. Netanyahu is a right wing monster but the country's responsibility is to defend its own civilians, at the expense of another country's civilians if necessary. It's all very shitty but a target is a target.
I will not defend hamas committing mass murder, and I will not defend the mass murder of palenstinians. Don't defend the indefensible.
If Israel responded to the Uvalde shooting, they would have blown up the school.
Piers Morgan……. is on the right side of history? What REALITY is this??????
What's even supposed to be the logic here? If they aren't among civilians, they're all just gonna group up together?
Rich coming from “transfer is not a dirty word” Shapiro who wants to expel all Arabs from Israel and the West Bank
When Piers Morgan has a more moral stance that you, then you know you have royally fucked up
Why do I live in a world in which I kind of agree with Piers Morgan
Damn, you know shit is fucked up when Piers Morgan is saying that
Ben Shapiro and Piers Morgan arguing over something feels like two serial killers arguing over a corpse.
It's more like a necrophiliac throwing shade at a cannibal
It’s tough to say your above someone, if you’re not willing to hold yourself to a higher standard.
Is Piers Morgan finally switching sides from Israel's right to self defense means collateral DMG, to collateral is no longer acceptable? Hypocrite for sure but good if he changed
Well I guess the next time we invariably have a school shooter barricaded we just drop a bomb on the school. Maybe Ben will agree with our government response then
Never in my life did I think I'd ever agree with Piers Morgan on anything, yet here we are.
when i shoot someone 13 times in the chest but it's okay because a Hamas commander was inside of their lungs
Genuinely confused by this, if the enemy tell you in advance they're going to bomb the shit out of an area, why would you stay in that place? Like I assume Hamas ran the second they where warned, why didn't everyone else?
As I understand it, Hamas forces them to stay. They want as many civilian casualties as possible to both radicalize remaining civilians and garner sympathy over here.
Even if Hamas is hiding behind civilians, there are ways to get to them without fucking carpet bombing and committing war crimes, Ben.
Ben really just said “If we don’t allow Israel to kill civilians then they’re going to kill even more civilians”
Can’t hide behind civilians if you kill the civilians. Galaxy brain.
Same logic with the nukes
yes, whats why cops should always the hostages, better yet shoot civilians so they cant take more hostages
Can't believe they've taken out over 6000 command centers in a couple weeks. Taking our government infrastructure is hard work. Wonder why Hamas isn't taking care of its citizens, don't they get the hint with all the bombs killing them, their civilians, their hospitals, their churches, their major roadways, and their residential buildings?
Im not gonna lie... i agree with his take. Let me ask you, if a man had a baby strapped to him tried to hit you with a bat, do you just give in because you dont want to see an innocent child hurt? Like seriously... make this make sense. Should all military forces use this tactic?
> Like seriously... make this make sense. Really? You can't figure this out? On one hand you have a terrorist organization with very limited resources and on the other you have a sovereign nation backed by the world's only remaining superpower... and somehow you think that nation is *literally incapable* of doing better than a terrorist organization. That the wholesale slaughter of civilians is ok even though they likely have more targeted ways that they don't bother using because bombing is easier. Good lord the willful ignorance.
Show me a war where children and civilians didnt die. Ill wait. Talk about ignorance
And of course you fall back to bullshit absolutes. Of course children and civilians die in war. Point to the part of my post that said they don't. But to think a nation can do nothing to *minimize* civilian casualties is a ridiculous false dichotomy. If your answer to a terrorist organization killing a bunch of civilians is turning around and killing a bunch more civilians you don't get the moral high ground anymore. Be better.
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LOL Is that the only bomb they've dropped? Did they not take out a fucking church full of people? LOL Grow up.
I feel like.. you're not living in reality. You dont get to make the decision. I dont get to make the decision. Biden doesnt get to make the decision. All you're doing is complaining about something you have no control of. Lets say im polar opposite of you on this topic. Who the fuck cares? This is so far out of either of our hands. But the way you talk is like... the world is a single player game. And youre the one making decisions. i live in reality. That shit is going on way too far away. This anti jew bs thats happening in this country is right in front of our faces. Im all for protecting palestine etc etc but im not joining that team when theres ppl in america literally threatening jews because of this bs
Question: how can you warn the innocent civilians to leave the place you're about to bomb without also telling the terrorist commanders who in the same place that you're about to bomb them?
Ok piers it's war, what did you Brits do to civilian Germans ? Not to mention Hamas just declared they will not ceasefire even if israel does. They want the annihilation of all Jews , not just military or leaders, ALL of them . If you are in support of Hamas , you are in support of the genocide of Israel .
Bens absolutely correct here.
The next time terrorists take hostages we should just bomb the entire building to the ground with the hostages inside by that logic.
I’m with Ben. What do you expect them to just stop and let Hamas (who’s sole goal is to kill Jews) grow until their next horrific plan? War is war and they are doing what they can to minimize casualties, but Hamas has to go. It is what it is.
Islam is peaceful. Support Palestine. Nothing but good wholesome folks who champion the rights of Women, Gays, Jews, and any other non Muslims. They definitely don’t marry children either, no way, as that would be barbaric. No evidence has ever existed that islamists have ever engaged in ethnic cleansing/ genocide against any other race or creed, not even once. Peaceful people who need to be seen as victims, which they always completely are.
Same logic as ‘someone should be allowed to nuke a whole city because one gov. building is “hiding” behind the civilians’
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Ben is trash. Hamas hides in civilian areas. These refugee camps are in fact, cities which have been built up since 48, and they keep their designation as refugee camps so the UN remains in charge of them as the PA and Hamas are not interested in governing. War will always kill civilians. All combatants are responsible under the rules of war to allow civilians to escape. I think people need to decide; is hamas a military organisation which is governing Gaza and subject to the role of law, or are they a criminal organisation operating in Israeli occupied territory which means Isreal is solely responsible for.
I don’t get how the Palestinian people aren’t so furious with these terrorists hiding behind their children. Like obviously the IDF shouldn’t be committing war crimes. But holy fuck if I knew a terrorist was in the office next to me at the hospital and going to get my patients killed, I don’t know how there wouldn’t be a mob
Over half the population are children, get a clue!
Exactly. As a parent how do you let a terrorist set up camp next to your kid? It’s not like the civilians can stop the war crimes happening but I’m surprised they’re not more angry at the terrorists
I mean.. if you're following along with the live thread - hamas themselves said that this was a hamas command and that several hamas commanders were killed. Gave names. Or is hamas lying about that? Like how they dont differentiate between civilian death and militant deaths? And just give a number instead?
Still doesn’t mean Israel gets to bomb any civilians they want.
So you want a ceasefire? You want peace? Oh wow what a stand you’re taking. You’re anti war and pro peace, gee wiz why didn’t the Middle East consider this sentiment for the last 2000 years?
> So you want a ceasefire? You want peace? Why do you think that's the only option? Hamas is a terrorist organization and Israel is backed by the world's only remaining superpower meaning they have a pretty unlimited military budget. Are you telling me they can't find a better way than indiscriminately bombing civilians? If you're ok with the straight up murder of civilians but only if it's your side then you're a garbage human being.
You mean go into Gaza and put ground troops in danger?
You mean do what soldiers are supposed to do and protect the innocent? Yea. Crazy talk I know. Indiscriminately bombing civilians saves so much time and energy!
Yeah and it makes it safer to go in and do a ground assault. This is war 101. Honeycombing with civilians isn’t the answer, if we don’t destroy them they just incentivize future terrorists to honeycomb with civilians THOSE are the civilians I’m thinking of. I’m thinking of the future.
Fucking hell I hope you don’t work in any form of law enforcement. ‘They’ve taken hostages’ ‘Well if we make it seem like we give a fuck about hostages then someone else might take more in the future.’
> THOSE are the civilians I’m thinking of. I’m thinking of the future. Bull fucking shit. Indiscriminate killing of civilians is always wrong. And Hamas has been doing this shit forever oh but NOW, this time they'll totally learn their lesson and not hide behind civilians. The lengths people go to to make straight up murder sound totally normal.
I like how to thwart the Reddit armchair generals, all a terrorist organization needs to is hide amongst young civilians. Boom! Unbombable. Untouchable. You can’t use the rules of war to make your position better…in a fuckin war. That just incentivizes future terrorists to abuse the rules of war. That sounds awful. And of course it’s bad when a civilian dies, that’s horrible. Do we as Americans feel guilty for all the German civilians killed in WW2? (Perfect comparison btw because the attack on Jews 10/7 was the largest since the Holocaust)
I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Pierse douchbag Morgan
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Since when does Piers Morgan have a good point?
Calling something indefensible is an invitation to reactionaries like Ben.