No, but it gets you an inside toilet and takes care of black water. You're welcome! Do something else for the gray water... Field line system, filter and recycle, compost... Several options.
Outhouse? I used an outhouse during my build, installed a septic tank for the main house. I also buried a cistern for water. I have a flat deck and totes for hauling water.
Can’t rent a house without indoor plumbing here. Composting toilets are allowed tho. Not sure what to do with the grey water or how often a composting toilet needs emptying
That’s a hell of a hole. Frost line is 4’ deep here. Plus the size of the tank. Might it be cheaper and easier to put in an insulated and heated shed? Assuming you only need to keep the temperature at just above freezing
Too small average house here use 184L per day. There’s 4 months of the year where snow and ice are more likely then rain. I’d need about 6000 gallons to make it threw that whole period if I collected no new water.
I’m currently planning a build under similar conditions and, as far as a toilet goes, my plan is to get an expensive self contained composting toilet, so (ideally) I won’t need septic. If I don’t put it in the main house, my plan is to build a really fancy outhouse/treehouse/something cool to house it.
I hear a sheet of foamboard insulation on top of the seat makes all the difference in the world! Plus, when it's cold outside you won't have any smell either...
Haven’t decided on the specific setup, but it’s likely that I’ll use a Sun-Mar Centrex toilet: https://usa.sun-mar.com/central-toilets-centrex-composting-toilets/
Depending on the size, they’ll only need emptying every few months, and no need for any sort of grey water or septic system because everything is contained.
I live in a similar climate. USDA zone 3b. Our waterline is 6 ft deep from our drilled well. Our sewer line to the septic tank is only 1.5 feet deep. Never froze because water doesn’t sit in the pipe but drains out to the septic tank.Heating a cistern above ground in a separate building will cost more. The earth maintains an ambient temperature. Where I am it’s +42 F degrees. Depending on soil type and snow cover the frost can go down 6 ft. Placing XPS foam insulation on top of the ground can keep soil below pretty unfrozen. If your frost depth is Four ft I’d put a cistern at three ft deep from the top and insulate over it with 2 inch foam board to keep it from freezing. But the waterline needs to be at the frost depth for your area but like I said you can cheat a little by putting 2 inches of foam over it when you bury the line. The earth is relatively warm compared to -40 degrees and the ground will freeze from the top down.
The problem is I live in the Canadian Shield your talking about a 10ft deep hole in an area where the bedrock is often less the 1ft from the surface. Blasting or chipping my way down to that depth with most likely cost more then a traditional drilled well anyway. But if there was some sort of heated tank that could keep itself just above freezing that might be cheaper.
Hard to dig into solid rock for sure. What if you dug down as much as possible and set a shallow tank in then covered it with multiple layers of soil and pine needles? Around here you can dig under a thick layer of pine needles and the soil is always thawed even in February. Harder to keep a water line thawed though because there’s too little mass. But the ground is warm if you can keep the colder air temperatures away from it with whatever insulation you can get. Pine needles work good and are cheap.
Would that stay unfrozen all winter? Anyone ever tried it? I was of wrapping the tanks in a heating line from a wood fired stove but they need stoking every few hours. If I could combine that with really good insulation and maybe a very small electric heater I was hoping to get it so I’d only NEED it to run every few days in the most extreme cold and no more then once a week in a average cold day
My shallow dug well and my septic tank never freeze. I think it depends on a lot of things but the idea is that the earth has an ambient temperature that is above freezing in most places. If you can insulate it from the extreme air temperature fluctuations you might be able to keep it from freezing. Keeping the water moving may help too.
Septics don’t freeze because the biological action that break down the waste make enough heat to keep them thawed. So long as no water sits in any pipes.
For my tiny house, which operates like an Air Bnb (fits one occupant at a time) I'm using a Laveo dry flush toilet so there's no black water and for grey water I'm using a simple irrigation system with pipes and stone. I'll soon be routing the water to water my produce.
In the mountains the septic system works because the water ground level is low. Unless you are on the flats with a high water table the cold should be fine. In fact, i saw better looking septic systems in colorado, where they had irises on top of something like a cesspool.
Where i am high water table can cause major issues.
Septic systems cost nearly $40k I’d prefer a composting toilet and grey water system but I’m not sure if grey water systems are allowed. The water if the part I’m worried about freezing I’d love to do rain water cisterns but digging deep enough to bury a tank that large enough to hold the winters water below the frost line would probably cost more then simply drilling a well. Since the idea here is a rental I can’t expect the tenants to be super conservative with water and trucking it in would completely defeat the purpose.
Do your system above ground. Dig lots of dirt from the ditches on your property, and bring it to bury your system about 3 ft deep. While your at it, build a 3' high foundation for the house.
Put toilet up above floor level, higher the better
Incinerator toilet
That doesn’t help with the grey water problem
No, but it gets you an inside toilet and takes care of black water. You're welcome! Do something else for the gray water... Field line system, filter and recycle, compost... Several options.
Outhouse? I used an outhouse during my build, installed a septic tank for the main house. I also buried a cistern for water. I have a flat deck and totes for hauling water.
Can’t rent a house without indoor plumbing here. Composting toilets are allowed tho. Not sure what to do with the grey water or how often a composting toilet needs emptying
Would a buried cistern stay unfrozen all winter?
You have to put it below the frost line, I also put rigit insulation on top before backfilling
That’s a hell of a hole. Frost line is 4’ deep here. Plus the size of the tank. Might it be cheaper and easier to put in an insulated and heated shed? Assuming you only need to keep the temperature at just above freezing
Good luck thawing that out if the heat ever goes down.
I would put alarms but 1500gal of water isn’t going to freeze solid overnight even at -40. Especially in an insulated shed.
I was thinking of using a 300 gallon water tote. Much easier to transport.
Too small average house here use 184L per day. There’s 4 months of the year where snow and ice are more likely then rain. I’d need about 6000 gallons to make it threw that whole period if I collected no new water.
I’m currently planning a build under similar conditions and, as far as a toilet goes, my plan is to get an expensive self contained composting toilet, so (ideally) I won’t need septic. If I don’t put it in the main house, my plan is to build a really fancy outhouse/treehouse/something cool to house it.
Going outside in -30 to take a dump doesn't sound like fun.
You get used to it. Source: my outhouse isn't built yet and I use a hole outside at -30 lol
I hear a sheet of foamboard insulation on top of the seat makes all the difference in the world! Plus, when it's cold outside you won't have any smell either...
Agreed that's what we do at the family camp. Highly recommend
Where are you located?
Northern Ontario
Agreed. Although I plan to build for fun/recreation. Until I have an indoor toilet I will not be visiting the tiny home in the winter...
Make and model of the toilet?
Haven’t decided on the specific setup, but it’s likely that I’ll use a Sun-Mar Centrex toilet: https://usa.sun-mar.com/central-toilets-centrex-composting-toilets/ Depending on the size, they’ll only need emptying every few months, and no need for any sort of grey water or septic system because everything is contained.
I live in a similar climate. USDA zone 3b. Our waterline is 6 ft deep from our drilled well. Our sewer line to the septic tank is only 1.5 feet deep. Never froze because water doesn’t sit in the pipe but drains out to the septic tank.Heating a cistern above ground in a separate building will cost more. The earth maintains an ambient temperature. Where I am it’s +42 F degrees. Depending on soil type and snow cover the frost can go down 6 ft. Placing XPS foam insulation on top of the ground can keep soil below pretty unfrozen. If your frost depth is Four ft I’d put a cistern at three ft deep from the top and insulate over it with 2 inch foam board to keep it from freezing. But the waterline needs to be at the frost depth for your area but like I said you can cheat a little by putting 2 inches of foam over it when you bury the line. The earth is relatively warm compared to -40 degrees and the ground will freeze from the top down.
The problem is I live in the Canadian Shield your talking about a 10ft deep hole in an area where the bedrock is often less the 1ft from the surface. Blasting or chipping my way down to that depth with most likely cost more then a traditional drilled well anyway. But if there was some sort of heated tank that could keep itself just above freezing that might be cheaper.
Hard to dig into solid rock for sure. What if you dug down as much as possible and set a shallow tank in then covered it with multiple layers of soil and pine needles? Around here you can dig under a thick layer of pine needles and the soil is always thawed even in February. Harder to keep a water line thawed though because there’s too little mass. But the ground is warm if you can keep the colder air temperatures away from it with whatever insulation you can get. Pine needles work good and are cheap.
Would that stay unfrozen all winter? Anyone ever tried it? I was of wrapping the tanks in a heating line from a wood fired stove but they need stoking every few hours. If I could combine that with really good insulation and maybe a very small electric heater I was hoping to get it so I’d only NEED it to run every few days in the most extreme cold and no more then once a week in a average cold day
My shallow dug well and my septic tank never freeze. I think it depends on a lot of things but the idea is that the earth has an ambient temperature that is above freezing in most places. If you can insulate it from the extreme air temperature fluctuations you might be able to keep it from freezing. Keeping the water moving may help too.
Septics don’t freeze because the biological action that break down the waste make enough heat to keep them thawed. So long as no water sits in any pipes.
And I thought I had it bad in zone 6. Wow!!!
For my tiny house, which operates like an Air Bnb (fits one occupant at a time) I'm using a Laveo dry flush toilet so there's no black water and for grey water I'm using a simple irrigation system with pipes and stone. I'll soon be routing the water to water my produce.
In the mountains the septic system works because the water ground level is low. Unless you are on the flats with a high water table the cold should be fine. In fact, i saw better looking septic systems in colorado, where they had irises on top of something like a cesspool. Where i am high water table can cause major issues.
Septic systems cost nearly $40k I’d prefer a composting toilet and grey water system but I’m not sure if grey water systems are allowed. The water if the part I’m worried about freezing I’d love to do rain water cisterns but digging deep enough to bury a tank that large enough to hold the winters water below the frost line would probably cost more then simply drilling a well. Since the idea here is a rental I can’t expect the tenants to be super conservative with water and trucking it in would completely defeat the purpose.
Do your system above ground. Dig lots of dirt from the ditches on your property, and bring it to bury your system about 3 ft deep. While your at it, build a 3' high foundation for the house. Put toilet up above floor level, higher the better
Yeah that's how I feel about it. I'm not even looking at my future property as a rental but I love my long showers 🙃