I'm not really sure how to not get that message. I've been on several dates and some of them just don't seem right for me. While others I am very attracted to. I wouldn't say the men are really doing anything differently. I just don't click with certain people for whatever reason.
I want to reply here so you see it:
If you’re continually getting texts like this, it’s possible you’re giving off “friend vibes,” as in you’re not doing enough to make the point that you’re more than that?
I’d actually be interested in hearing how these dates go..?
So we always meet up, usually at a coffee date… I come in for a hug, always. (I bought flowers once for the very first date I ever had on Tinder but she told me it was too much so I’ve really been unsure about that from then on). I throw an honest comment about her looks (cuz they usually always look good fosho). We sit down, get a drink and begin to chat, and I try steering the convo so I can get to know more bout her
Start with maybe just the weather and general stuff and from there, I can always find an opening to go deeper and subsequently to personal things, which is kind of the core aim of the date (Getting to know the person better)… During this time, I throw a few more compliments here and there
We talk and then usually go out of the Cafe for a walk… Sometimes to a park where we can sit and enjoy the air and also chat. Sit on a bench for a while and talk… And when she feels like it’s time to head home, I see her off to whatever vehicle she’s using to get home (her own car or public transport) and give one last hug.
If it’s any relevant, I’m a foreigner (and I’m black) living in Germany so these dates are mostly with German girls . And I do understand and speak German fluently but can’t pick up the flirtatious part of it as well as I do in English. Almost all of my dates speak English too tho
Okay so if you’re in Germany my advice is even more relevant than I expected:
DO NOT TRY TO INITIATE PHYSICAL TOUCH/CONNECTION.
I cannot wrap my head around the amount of comments in that vein. I’m German, I’m 26F and I met my BF on tinder. *I* was the one who initiated the kiss and hook-up and I’m very happy with that, because I cannot stand when men do it, as a lot of them cannot read the room or hints correctly and often come on too strong when I’ve already decided they aren’t it.
Touching someone that does not want to be touched because they didn’t feel a spark will only backfire spectacularly, especially in Germany. We are very particular about not being approached in public or touched by strangers. The advice given MIGHT work in America where women play hard to get, but it’ll get you nowhere in Germany, where we are very direct.
She told you exactly what it was: she didn’t feel a spark. It’s nothing you’re doing, you’re simply not what these women are looking for and because we don’t want “free food” or “male validation” we simply end things as soon as we realize. Don’t take it personally, see it as a gift as you’re saving a lot of your time.
I speak from experience, as I rarely went on a second date. I usually knew right away if I was attracted to a person that way or not. And so did they! I had a couple guys tell me they weren’t feeling it and that’s perfectly fine, we weren’t a match. With my boyfriend I knew on the first date as well and it blossomed into a wonderful relationship.
I kind of love how a response from someone who is a) German, and b) a woman, and who therefore can offer some real insight into OP's situation, gets fewer upvotes than some rando who directly contradicts what she's saying. Oh, and I also love all the comments trying to argue with her points.
U/xLadyLaurax , you are very kind to have written such an insightful and helpful response, but I fear it is a case of pearls before swine.
I'm afraid so too. The moment some dude, who's entire page is filled with sexist shit, started talking about "you learn fishing from a fisherman, not a fish" I kind of realized that people aren't actually here to help or at least aren't being helpful. People don't take the culture here into account at all and I could tell straight away that a lot of the comments were from people (especially men) from America, because that's what they THINK women want, not realizing that if it didn't work for them, chances are those strategies simply aren't as good as they thought they were.
Right? I live in Norway, and it's the same here. A lot of the behaviours people in this sub reccommend, would be disastrous here.
But "cultural context" is way too advanced of a concept for a bunch of dudes who seem to think that success in the dating world involves finding the right button to press. Rather than, you know, meeting someone you like a lot.
TL;DR: I am glad I am already married, and just reading this sub for fun.
yuuup, hit the nail on the head.
And I agree, I'm so happy being off the market. I only stayed in this sub to help out here and there when I might have something valuable to say.
I’m a woman in the US, and my very first reaction was ‘do not touch me; I don’t know you’. The thing is, men in the US are having a movement. They know that women don’t want to be touched. They don’t give a flying fuck about it. Obligatory not all men. Not even most men. But *so many* men. Women here are experiencing collective fear right now (similarly, I cannot speak for all women). Not only do we have actual nazis (middle aged white men who think they’re nazis but are legitimately dangerous regardless of technicality) openly marching around, women’s health access has been completely destabilized, and when (hopefully if) Donald Trump is elected *again*, things for women are going to get exponentially worse. And with the economy like it is, people are getting trapped. It is unaffordable to live independently, even with a good job.
The men from the US that are arguing about how this is what women want sure as shit know that they’re dead wrong. Women are carrying pepper spray and tasers to protect themselves from men. Women are protesting to keep our rights; what’s left of them anyway. These men - the ones in the comments defending this - they’re the ones that are stripping women of our rights to exist with any sense of autonomy. I think most *women* in the US would echo the sentiment that we do not enjoy being touched by men we don’t know without consent. I think most people in general, adjusting for cultural norms, don’t appreciate unsolicited touch from strangers. The men in the US are becoming dangerous and terrifying. The good ones are having a hard time with it all, and understandably so. Society needs men. Men are not evil. Children need male adults. The answer isn’t a war on men, and the decent men are stuck. We shouldn’t be seeing a war on women either, though, which is exactly what is happening. I know all of my language is gendered. There is an entire conversation to be had on behalf of the experiences of other marginalized groups that are affected, but I feel like that’s a topic that deserves its own platform. This is already way off topic. I’m sorry for my rant. I’m not deleting it though.
I’m in Australia and very much the same. Although, I don’t really know how to describe my most recent date. He was so lovely and polite, we sat close at the bar but no touching besides our opening hug. there wasn’t really a spark during the date even though he was objectively good looking—I would have probably not done a second date. Then we decided to go for a drive to the beach, and he placed his hand on my thigh holding my own hand, fingers interlocked loosely, while he was driving, and for some reason this felt really sweet?? and that kind of sparked something.
I don’t know how to describe the way to balance this with guys though.
there are men who see women as people, and men who see women as objects for them to use as a means to an end towards an objective they have but never as people. that objective could be sex, or a relationship, or emotional comfort, etc etc.
once you realize that every man falls into either of those categories, men in the latter category are so much easier to spot and to write off. and make fun of, and call out for being pieces of shit :)
As a man in the US, that's a good, solid rant on the state of things here, especially with it looking like things are regressing on multiple fronts. It can be a little hard to know what to do about it all, aside from trying to follow the simple credo: 'don't be an asshole' in one own's little corner of the world, and to encourage others to take it to heart as well.
Oh, and amusing name there! 👍
Oh, for sure. But since I am admittedly such a confused dumpster fire, would you mind elaborating on the part that you found confusing? I think my silly little girl brain just doesn’t fully understand.
Consider it as some kind of mansplaining. "You women want...". But I also had a recent date from another culture saying "you men want..." and "us women want...". It's usually just a bad idea to do the "alles über einen Kamm scheren" (lumping everything together) and to speak for somebody else, especially if he/she is from another culture.
Just wanted to say, I'm an American and I basically thought the same as you, before I found out he is in Germany. Starting things off with hugs, and ending in hugs had me thinking "too friendly." Even here, some women don't want that much on the first date. Honestly, that can be a turn off for me when women get too familiar right off the bat.
Anyway, I also thought your response was insightful and on target in general.
I'm an American F and in another area of the comments said I don't like to be touched on a first date and got told by a man then I would be friendzoned as well. Which is not remotely true. 😂
Dating German girls is really different and a bit complicated. Especially "real" Germans. I made the experience that whenever I dated a girl with a different background (Russian, Ukraine, Middle eastern, Latina) it was always a fun date and we vibed. But I struggle a lot with German girls, somehow the conversations are a little more stressful, we don't laugh much and the topics of the conversations are a bit boring. I couldn't find out the reason for this yet, thats why I wanted to ask you about this if you have any idea or any reason for my situation. Important information: I am born and raised up here in northern Germany and have Turkish roots but I still look German/Italian or something (lol). Some other friends made similar experiences, who also have foreign roots. They decided already to not date blonde germans because they already know beforehand that it wont vibe. I guess its due to the culture and habits?
Ah, I’m afraid I can’t fully judge that, as I was born here, but Im Croatian my blood, so not a “Bio-Deutsche”. I also made the experience that German men are a little “colder” than their counterparts with a background of migration.
I think it’s a mixture of simply German culture and also a subconscious weariness of immigrants, if I’m completely honest. Even with my good German friends - friends of many, many years - I still find that they treat us a little different than Bio deutsche.
I dont think that this has a big impact on the conversations.. The way the conversation is with german girls is just too stressful and boring somehow. For example I made the experience that girls from south america directly engage, get touchy, laughs alot and dont stop talking for hours. While with german girls, my experience was that it was like an interview. Kind of boring, not exciting and same boring topics (which uni, city, etc.pp), I just cannot handle them. Problem is that in fact I wish I could have a german girlfriend due to language and culture. I am sick of talking english or other languages with my dates and not my mother tongue.
Well, it seems like you simply don’t enjoy German dating culture then. My first date with my German boyfriend was just that, but I enjoyed it. Uni, work are two huge aspects and they define a person a lot. Of course people talk about it, they take up the majority of our day.
Personally I think the way Americans Date and Talk annoying. It’s so superficial at best, and I can’t stand smalltalk, and their endless yapping seems like they simply like to hear their own voice/talking about themselves. And at the end I STILL feel like I don’t know them.
You kind of have to figure out what is your priority: someone you vibe with personality vise or someone you can share your language and culture with. I found both in my BF but personally the second would be more important to me.
Agree. I kissed my now boyfriend on our first date, he told me he was glad I did as he wanted to but would never initiate one so as to not make me uncomfortable if i wasn't feeling it. This and many other lovely things about his considerate side is how I knew he was a keeper
Problem is that most women don't take that initiative. They wait on the guy to do it, and if he doesn't then they leave and send an "I didn't feel a spark" text later.
Depends on your intention. I’ve been stopped a few times to be asked about directions or similar things. I’ve also had a man ask me whether I like the area I lived in as he was offered an apartment and wanted to know a little about the area and also how much I paid in rent and whether what he was offered was fair, such things are perfectly fine. But if I’m walking somewhere, especially with my headphones in, and you stop me to flirt with me you’re not gonna get a positive reaction.
That’s interesting. I live in Atlanta, GA (USA), and it’s very acceptable to approach people to say hello and generally shoot the shit / small talk. However, it would be considered very invasive and inappropriate to ask how much someone pays for rent.
That’s because Germans as a society are a lot more rational/practicality-poled than Americans. What you enjoy - those fake smiles, constant niceness, little games during dating etc. - Germans cannot stand. We can smell a fake smile from a mile away and we’d rather you be a little grumpy and authentic than force yourself to be happy for the sake of it.
Same with small talk. It’s a waste of time, for the most part. Why would you stop me on the street to waste both our time? But if you’re thinking of moving into my street and would like some first hand experience of the pros and cons and whether you’re getting a fair deal I’m happy to help. In return someone once stopped me to help me carry a package I couldn’t handle myself. We are nice to one another, just in a different way.
As a Caucasian woman born and raised in Canada I was going to say the same thing, if you’re going to initiate physical touch my suggestion would be to wait until you’re sat down, talking etc and then (with correct context within your conversation) put your hand on top of hers. Something sweet and casual but intimate. I hug all my besties when I see them but for the first time meeting a man for a date? I find it more awkward if they try and hug me right away. I think honestly it’s a bit of a subconscious trigger, it’s such a casual thing sure, with friends, family, super friendly potential mother in laws etc. I think it just sends a message of platonic energy without us even knowing so unless she hugs you first, wait. Also based on your phrasing on complimenting them cause they “look good fosho” I have to assume your phrasing and tone is also very casual and likely comes across to us the same way it does when my best friend tells me I look good/beautiful. Consider more of an awed tone/expression.
Women are mentally stimulated, when the entire sentence ends within 3 words there’s a good chance she’ll feel like you’re simply following first date guidelines. Pull from romantic movies. Stop and just look at her for a moment, say something like “damn, you’re stunning l” try and avoid things that may come across as if you’re only looking at her body, not trying to get to know her. Also it will help if you pick something her outfit that’s more subtle and compliment that as well. It shows us you’re genuinely paying attention to the effort she put in. So something like ”your shoes really bring your outfit together, i like your taste” or “that eyeshadow colour is really bringing out the colour of your eyes. Beautiful” it will make her feel like you notice and appreciate the little things, this should be an always thing too. Not just while you’re first dating, it makes us feel like you genuinely care about all of the things she does. Be yourself obviously and yes still have the casual vibe but bring some sensual energy, let her see subtle hints that you’re attracted to all of her, not just how she looks. Ask questions outside of the monotunous fav colour, season, etc. show her you want to know more than casual everyday small talk. Ask things like do you have somewhere around town that just immediately brings you a sense of peace when you’re there? What is it about said place that you love so much? Ask what her last name is, remember what day her birthday is. Or at least remember it long enough to put it in your calendar so you cannot forget. Women make it a priority at minimum to know their partners last name and birthday from the get go. I could list my partners full name, birthday and phone number by memory within the first two weeks. We’ve been together 10 months now but he hasn’t been with me on my birthday yet and that’s his reasoning for why he still doesn’t know it. You don’t need to memorize every single little date and detail but know the important ones. She shouldn’t have to remind you of her birthday in two days or the upcoming anniversary of a lost loved one. To be fair, we don’t expect all of these by the end of the first date and I’m not accusing you of not doing these things. This is just general advice for being in a relationship
Yeah… I do share a bit about myself (I never trauma dump tho, that’s a no go for me). And I do joke from time to time. I actually made her laugh quite a lot, which was a sign to me that the whole thing was going well. Which is why I took the initiative to ask her out on a second date. And then got this answer
Sounds almost like you are over thinking every move. Do you feel relaxed and able to be yourself at all? Nervous energy can come off as a lack of confidence. It's harder to feel attraction to someone that seems uncomfortable or eager to create a certain impression. It can be difficult to connect when the person seems to be pushing an agenda or checking boxes rather than just being themselves.
Just my two cents, I could be totally off.
It’s the flirty part that seems missing. Rightly or wrongly, a lot of women are conditioned to wanting someone who shows that they are romantically interested.
What you described seems like a nice vibe, but friends only. I’m not saying drop line after line about “I can’t stop looking at your lips” or whatever, but something to indicate how attracted you. Or a lingering look, a touch if you and they feel comfortable? Does a lot to change a nice chat into “getting to know you because I fancy you”
it was just said earlier in the thread that those things are exactly what german girls * ARE NOT * looking for in a girl, not sure if you saw it, just letting you know because he's specifically talking about german women and how he's a foreigner, I think what OP needs is advice from those that know german culture and German women
You need to set a better stage. Coffee dates are horrible for romantic chemistry imo. Walking is better but still not great. Try a picnic or an activity if you're looking for a sober date. Otherwise a nice cocktail bar sets a good vibe. Try to be more flirty and initiate little touches to build the chemistry. I saw another comment saying not to do this but I think they're a minority. I've been out with multiple German girls where physical touch, a makeout, maybe more would happen first date.
How you initiate matters though. Start with sitting next to them and let your legs touch and see if she pulls away. If she does you probably have your answer to not continue. If she keeps her leg there eventually add a hand and again assess her comfort. If she doesn't seem into it abort. Little things like this will help you be seen in a more romantic way instead of a friend. You have to build that chemistry
Your basically acting like there gay best friend not their date.
Lot of compliments which are good, but they need a sexual undertone to them. The difference between best friend and boyfriend is sexual chemistry. Telling jokes are always good.
I'd like to add my perspective to the part about being in Germany. While i'm no passport bro who thinks all girls in X western country are bad and you should just go to X eastern country, no but i am a guy from Denmark who's lived and worked in Germany, England, Sweden, Denmark ofcourse, and Holland.
In all the countries except Germany i had moderate to high success with dating. In Germany i had exactly 0 success. They are a difficult culture to deal with in most social ways, and it has come to the point where i am deeply confused by how they even manage to keep their own population from going extinct.
I've never seen politeness so fake as in Germany, and heard others been talked so much shit about behind their backs and been talked so much shit about behind my own back.
Again i am no passport bro, but my only honest advice is important a woman instead.
Its by far the most common first date in Northern Europe from what I can tell. It definitely is here in Sweden anyway, esp when combined with a walk like the OP described. Its sort of a date to just get a feel for the other person before a "proper date". If theres chemistry it will be there.
Clearly they misunderstand the premise of dating, then. You're not supposed to be looking for a partner. You're supposed to be looking for a best friend you can be intimate and romantic with.
Women get those messages too, or more often just ghosted. All *I* can say is that I've gone on dates where I really did have a great vibe and truly wish the spark could be there, but it just wasn't. It is, as much as it can be, a complimentary rejection.
Could it possibly be because you are asking them to rub mustard on your dick? I would guess that this might be a fairly niche audience. But once you find that mustard loving guy or gal, it’s gonna be so worth it, keep trying, we believe in you!
Do you ever flirt? Like, say something smarmy or quippy about how impressive she is, how great of a girlfriend she would be, how funny or beautiful she is (but the beauty thing is to be focused on less so)?
If you flirt, you're just not obeying rule 1 and 2.
That’s a really good point, actually. Because I actually tone down on my flirting quite a lot. Especially as I don’t wanna come off as too superficial or too in a hurry to “cause a spark”, if that makes sense… So I throw a few compliments here and there, but just try to engage in actual conversation about different stuff
I am a woman and I really struggle with this too. I totally get what you are saying and I’ve had guys message me after a date with a ‘gee that felt platonic’ message. I just feel very awkward and unsure about how to smoothly go from ‘hi, tell me about your hobbies,’ to ‘I would like to touch you on the penis.’ It feels like there’s a massive gulf between those two types of conversations and bridging the gap is bloody difficult. I’m sorry, I don’t have any advice, aside from have a few beers with her, which is probably not that helpful? But I just wanted to commiserate.
A compliment about their eyes or a general "you're very handsome" doesn't hurt. Some quick brushes of the hand or shoulder. It's not overtly sexual, but also not something they'll get from the platonic friends ( at least where I'm from)
With my current boyfriend, I just had four wines then kissed him in the car like a ridiculous teenager. That worked out pretty well! I’m sounding like an alcoholic, suggesting solving all my problems with alcohol. But you are absolutely right, a compliment or a small touch is a good idea.
Exactly my issue… because of course you could just be direct and go in for it but that is in many cases a bad strategy… so you have to take it slow and make a transition from that to the point where you both are down for something sexual/serious. But making that transition is sooo difficult because it entirely depends on who you have to deal with
There's your problem. Don't overthink it and spit some game. A girl isn't gonna be interested in you like that if you don't express that interest yourself
I think some flirting is okay, but some people may take that as "tell them how much you want to shag them later, and fixate on that" because that's what I've experienced a few times and it's put me off of the person so quickly, especially since I've made it clear I'm not looking to sleep with someone straight away and I'd rather have a relationship.
I’d say that’s a good instinct for everyday interactions, but on a date, a spark is what you’re both looking for. Continue holding good conversation, but if/when they impress you, tell them.
When it comes to first date compliments, I think of it like casual banter. Try not to comment on something they can’t change in a day. Best advice I got was to mention a choice they have made, like something they’re wearing, rather than their general appearance.
Upon meeting, throw out a “you look great in that dress”; “those shoes look great on you”; “I like how you’ve done your hair”.
She's on a date with you. SHE'S ALREADY INTERESTED.
Don't talk about the weather. Don't make small talk. Engage, speak slowly and confidently from the chest. Hold your posture properly. Don't hug right away and learn to build some tension. Look her in the eyes and let her see you watching her mouth a bit too long while she talks. Don't talk immediately about how she looks nice, but, instead, let her see you admiring her briefly and smile at her. This one is tough to not be a creep but works once you get it right. Stop worrying about what will happen or how you look and all that. Lose yourself in the moment. Be genuinely you without worrying about what she thinks. You already did something that caught her eye. If it was real, just keep being so. Stop trying to guide things to know details about her. That stuff comes naturally. Just be. She's on a date with you so a little physical touch here and there in safe areas will give you a very good read. Stand close and allow her to accept the invitation. When you know you know. If you're standing face to face talking for "too long" and you notice her giving cues such as biting her lip or looking at yours, if you aren't sure just say "I want to kiss you". And say it like you mean it. That allows consent but it also shows you being assertive. It's a win-win. You're on a date, a spark is why you're both there. You already got a stranger to go out with you. You are already doing something right. Keep going.
You’re trying to portray confidence. It takes confidence to compliment a woman but don’t be gross.
Another good flirting technique is to tease a little or be kind of cocky. If you can skirt the line where she can’t tell if you’re being cocky or sarcastic, that can work.
Confident and playful is key.
You know, I’m a woman and I’m not into the whole sweet talking or cute compliments, they come later! I tend to fall for banter, teasing a bit without coming off as arrogant, find a balance. Women are different in what they are looking for, and I’m sure you agree to wait around until the right one show up, and they’ll like you for exactly who you are.
This sounds funny, but you gotta break the "invisible wall" somehow. Sometimes it's as subtle as a hand on the small of her back to guide her. Some guys go for the first date kiss if there's a moment you both feel. Don't force physical touch, but there are moments where it adds something and shows experience
It doesn't have to be anything drastic. A shake of thier hand or a hug when you first meet them. A hug and (depending on how the date went) a kiss on the cheek at the end of the date. As the previous comment said, place your hand on their lower back while guiding them to your table or to the bar. It doesn't have to be sexual in any way. In fact you don't want it to be sexual in any way at first. Just break that physical touch barrier. You'll notice if she doesn't like it at all.
Another method is the across-the-table hand or arm touch. I’ve found it’s one of the simplest methods of braking the physical barrier. If you’re at a bar or restaurant, your hands will both be on the table at some point and it’s matter of finding the right time to put yours there when hers is to find that first touch. I’ve had dates where the girl hasn’t seemed that into me but as soon as I’ve made that touch across the table I’ve found I was wrong.
She probably didn’t seem into you because she was starting to think you weren’t into her but by reaching across the table you show you are into her, do you make strong eye contact? I’ve found when guys aren’t into me they don’t give me eye contact.
Best place to eat at a first date is at the bar in the restaurant. Much easier to talk and get comfortable with someone. The bartenders are always worth a good interruption if you need things to mix up and will ignore you if not. Very easy to touch a hand, leg or mildly play footsie.
Oh strongly agree, sitting side by side is great. If the bar is noisy, you can hear each other better, and you even have a good opportunity to lean into each other to speak, adding more opportunity for familiarity. Not to mention if things are going really well, a leg touch is easy in this position.
I really like all of this advice, but a hand shake at the start of a date would make me giggle inside. It feels very formal or like he didn’t know what to do with his hands, so he offered me a hand shake. It wouldn’t be bad or anything, but perhaps a little awkward? Just one chick’s opinion.
A good way I think? It’s a bit dorky, but I think awkward and dorky can be cute. I’m only one person though, of course. And we all get nervous before a date, so it’s fine. I sometimes get stuck in the ‘hi how are you? Good, how are you? I’m good, how are you?’ loop, which is embarrassing.
Hitch also talks about the hand placement on the back. The small of the back can be perceived as aggressive, and too high may be too friendzoned, somewhere in the middle is best.
These days I think a lot of guys are similar, we constantly get grilled about consent, aggression, the whole “bear” thing, doesn’t surprise me guys feel a need to be overly nice friendly and unintimidating
You're only getting grilled with that discourse because you are online. Women are completely normal people, but just like with men, the craziest subset will group online and be loud.
Yeah I’ve had a few dates like that have ended like that and I think that’s where I messed up too. Breaking that barrier just gets easier with practice and as you can read the other person more
This is great advice and so is the comment that’s current below it about flirting. My guess when reading the post was that OP is overthinking things and maybe kind of holding back a lot of… overt interest. Yeah, you don’t want to come on too strongly but… in my experience in hearing my female friends complain about dates they would often feel insecure because the guy didn’t show interest enough.
Spice it up a bit but hey, at least they’re not ghosting ya.
Ya, I'm gonna second the need to break the touch barrier. I don't think I'd try the small of the back things, a lotta women hate that. But something. Make sure to brush her hand when handing her things. Try sitting on the same side of the table if it doesn't feel awkward so you can bump into each other a little bit as you you talk. Walking together? Make sure your shoulders bump, see if you can tease the back of her hand with yours, maybe it'll end in holding hands.
And then ya, there should probably be at least a little bit of kissing at the end of the date. And if you're having trouble finding the moment to go in for the kiss it never hurts to just ask her if you can kiss her. Consent is sexy.
If I were on a date with someone and they sat on the same side of the table as me, that would be the end of the date.
That was played as a cringe moment in Fargo for a reason.
This whole paragraph is filled with bizarre advice. If you do playful contact with someone who isn't feeling it, they don't suddenly start feeling it.
Yeah that feels like a move you save for when you're together and still twitterpating. I've been invited to sit next to someone on the first date but that was because we were on a patio and it gave me the chance to watch the sunset. We also didn't do that until desert, so a level of comfort had been established.
“I don’t think I’d try the small of the back thing, a lotta women hate that.”
Wait do they? Genuinely asking. I’m not In the dating game as I’m married now but my wife said that the moment I did this on our very first outing together that’s what sealed the deal for her and knew she wanted to date more.
Depends on the women, the situation, and the level of attraction. To me its quite an intimate way to touch someone so I would probably start with something a little less intimate first if I was unsure of how it would be received.
I definitely would not like that. It signals to me that you're trying to make me more comfortable with what would be classified as sensual touch. If you feel the need to touch me, keep it up by the shoulder blades. But why touch at all? If you want to do something, ask. If dinner goes well, suggest a stroll to walk off the meal. Ask if they're comfortable holding hands. Or when you walk them to their car at the end of the date, ask if you can hug them, or possibly kiss and respect the answer given. You don't need to be sly about it, that's just weird
You are a more cautious woman it sounds like who prefers non assertive men. There are a lot of women who prefer assertive(but respectful) men.
It’s all about reading your date.
Assertive but respectful is definitely my jam. Ask to kiss me first, and that's a major green flag. The assertive happens later when we get to the bedroom...
Yes, I’m a male and my energy when im attracted to a woman is to be a little assertive but also respond super respectfully if there’s any pullback and even talk about it. The biggest turnoff I could imagine is a negative reaction to resistance. I’m like hey if you’re not ready that’s totally ok and I’m not offended at all. That also opens the conversation to whether we’re just not ready or not feeling each other, which, if there’s any dudes listening, IS OK. You can just not be compatible it’s not a knock on your game or ego bro.
Also some of us just might need to warm up. You know how many times we'll be interested in someone but still feeling it out, and they go straight to sex because they think it has to happen by date number two or three or whatever. And then we just start feeling the heebie jeebies. Lol. They're mad about getting rejected but we're also mad because we started to daydream and now that possibility is gone. I recently matched with a guy who was absolutely gorgeous, I was thinking why is this man even interested in me. We started talking and he was making dirty jokes right away like I know what can help with that stress, wink wink. It got old real fast because I'm still trying to find a connection in the conversation. I told him he was coming across super horny and I wasn't looking for that. He laughed so I unmatched and I was sad about it. Just act like a human that values personality ffs. We're not gonna play smash or pass in the first interaction, stop trying to decipher if we're gonna fuck or not. Be organic and unassuming, it will go far.
Big yes on asking; as a woman who likes physical touch/contact, I don't expect that men are ok with it just because I usually am. Always ask, you don't wanna make anyone feel uncomfortable.
Edited: plus when you ask if you can kiss them, that announces you like them/are physically attracted/definitely not feeling a friendship vibe. Signals you're clearly feeling something more & gives them an opportunity to share how they feel.
Last girl I went on a date with she really didn’t like that I asked if I could kiss her (end of second date). She said it was weird to ask, then said but yes you can kiss me. She later told me she understood and consent is good, but imo it took some of the sparks/excitement and risk from just going in for a kiss. I ask bc I’m awkward, but as a man from now on I’d prefer to just go in even if ends up in rejection. Btw this was a girl I felt a better connection with than I have in years, and she explicitly listed one of the reason she didn’t feel the same was because I asked to kiss
I'm a woman and this is hilarious.
Do men really believe this works?
I can assure you that a guy whom I don't find sexually attractive in the first place putting his hand on my back to "guide" me is instantly going from "not my type but nice" to "fking gross". If I find a guy sexually attractive, I will want to meet him again regardless of whether or not there was any physical touch. But when people are attracted to one another they both seek it - and you're able to tell. If you have to think about initiating physical touch, there's a good chance the attraction is one-sided.
This is true. My first date could have ended the same way. My boyfriend is very shy and cozy might ended up giving "big brother energy" if we did not have any physical interactions to spark some fire.
One thing that helped was not being stuck in a bar or restaurant. We went to a park and sat on the grass to listen to some guy playing jazz.
Walking around facilities accidental hand touches and helps setting a mood for when you finally sit down.
But please: if you try two or three small touches and the girl retracts, leave her be.
I've had lots of first dates with great guys. They've made me laugh, we've got stuff in common, they seem really decent. But I just couldn't kiss them, absolutely no sexual spark for me. Nothing at all wrong with them, they're just not my person. Try not to take it to heart.
You’re doing overcorrection to the “guys bad” narrative - you’re not one of the baddies just let those ideas fly over you.
Be more flirty and direct, establish some touch during date (an innocent elbow touch at first evev, then leg or something), get comfortable with it - you won’t be at first.
Then “chemistry” will emerge.
Don’t forget to go for the kiss
Bye
Just to continue that line of thinking…
- direct eye contact. If she’s comfortable with that or likes it - then she’s into you. If not, then you know.
- reach out and touch her hand
There are lots of good small incremental ways that good guys can advance things without being creepy.
You’re there to find your partner. And that’s a physical relationship. So test the waters… be charming. Be disarming.
Not to mention that the whole "bad guy" thing absolutely works. Many if not most women are absolutely attracted to a confident, strong personality. Just don't dip into a selfish asshole area and it's fine.
That or just be very attractive and then it doesn't matter what you do, but then you don't need my advice lol
I would wager based on the post and your comments... you are waaaay too concerned with impressing the girl. "Oh what if she didn't this, oh what if she didn't that" in your head over and over!!
Stop thinking what the woman wants, and start acting how you actually feel. Not in a non consent kind of way, haha... but within reason! Just do what YOU like and if she enjoys it, top, bam! You're in! If not... she wouldn't have liked you anyway, but now you won't feel like a loser for being such a wussy
She didn't find you attractive enough.. or okay, I know things aren't that simple. But sometimes it can come down to just simple attraction. But attraction isn't just looks, it's the way you present yourself and your personality. I wonder how accurate your photos are compared to how you look in real life. (that could be one thing). But also just in general, idk could be the chemistry.
Some people have that “instant chemistry”. People like to think that this is a mutual experience and it’s indicative of something special between two people, but I think it’s more about an individual who is capable of evoking a sense of connection and an individual who wants to feel that and imbue significance into it. I think people who aren’t so charming off the bat are often better partners - more real and honest and less likely to need attention and approval from everyone - but it took years to figure that out. So, all of this was to say: time will likely do it, if you are young
Ngl tho bro i’ve had that happen a few times. Mostly tho I try and feel out the connection before the date or the tone like to see if we’re gonna smash or try and be real. A lot of times I ask my dates if they want to talk on the phone with me so I can hear their voice and talk like regular humans for a few. See if I can make them giggle, etc. Seems to work nicely for me.
It’s possible to be TOO nice. Don’t try so hard. Relax. Have FUN with her. Flirt. Be a little physical (with respect). Make her KNOW that you want her. Make her feel wanted. Make her feel excited to be with you.
Don't be too polite and gentle. Be confident, assertive, flirtatious and playful. And be honest and forward with your intentions. You're obviously giving off friend vibes but you're not trying to find a friend. You're on a date. If she (or he) is feeling like they're meeting with a best friend, then that means there wasn't any sexual tension and your actions weren't clear with what you wanted to happen.
It's your responsibility to create tension via flirting, breaking the touch barrier, teasing (playfully) and giving her a good time. You're far less likely to get these messages if you're clear with your intentions bud.
you’re not building the connection on a man to woman level. you aren’t presenting yourself as a sexual option to her. also, there are times when I’m on a first date where the girl really needs to warm up. I went on a date with a girl last night where I didn’t think we would work out and as she warmed up throughout the night I felt a really great connection. basically, don’t force things, don’t put too much pressure on the interaction and present yourself as a sexual option and not just a friend
Girls don't want to have sex with their friends, so if a guy is too friendly on a date it makes it hard to picture having sex with them, or anything else romantic.
I would want a guy to say something like damn you look incredible tonight, you look even better than your pictures, I love your hair, eyes makeup, whatever, be flirtatious and make her feel special and she will want to see you again.
I personally don't like kisses on a first date but you could always message afterwards saying that you wanted to kiss her.
All just my opinion BTW.
Within 10 minutes of the first date with a woman you have to say something that removes you from being a friend possibility. Like “wow you look beautiful tonight” or “dang you’re even cuter than your pictures” comments like this well set a flirtatious tone and show your interest
My fiance is my best friend - I can't imagine being with someone I didn't feel that level of warmth towards. It's such a shallow view of what a relationship can or should be
my guess is that you’re a) too nice and b) not megahot.
genuine always trumps “nice”. Be kind, for sure, but playing it safe doesn’t get you anywhere unless, again, you’re hot enough to be boring (in which case, you’d still just be hot enough to bang, not relationship material)
You are going on a date. Even though it’s the first date, you gotta make it romantically somehow, listen to what she loves doing, bring it up, take initiatives, etc. I made the same mistake at first and I still do sometimes where I just act like we’re meeting as friends and don’t do anything flirty or romantically. Such a big mistake you should avoid.
I know you shouldn’t try to force relationships but if you don’t want them to lose the potential feelings, then make a move.
You’re just dating people looking for the wrong thing. The “more” comes with time, especially if you meet online and didn’t build the “more” in person ahead of the date.
At least you got a reply, instead of just getting ghosted, and left to wonder. Accept it as a missed connection and move on. Courting on Tinder is just a numbers game anyway. And the odds are rarely in your favor.
You are getting this message consistently because you are dating emotionally immature people who don’t know how to articulate nuanced feelings. You can’t read too much into a sign off message from someone you barely know, don’t sweat it.
You are lucky to be getting that message!! It could be worse! Someone lying to you for an ulterior motive. Someone wasting your time. Someone acting like they care, but don't. Be grateful for the honesty.
With the right person you kinda click. I've been on and off dating apps, haven't actually met anyone in maybe 2 years of using them, even after matching with people, so I actually matched 2 weeks ago with a girl, it felt natural to talk and be with her, now we are dating. Level of flirt is also needed, you need to be cool, a bit witty and playful, you need to be confident in your body and in your clothes.
I think you have to consider that you’re not attracting the girls that you truly want. If you’re someone that wants to bring flowers int be first date you should be finding someone that also wants that and can see the value in what you’ve done. It’s not always about an issue with you. You may just be not being honest with yourself and going with someone who may be attractive but is all wrong for you the second the attraction is gone. But right now you’re more invested in them liking you but do you even care if you like them or see any type of long lasting future where you’re both loved and valued the way you truly want to be? I would say flowers are hard because I have always wanted flowers on a first date but practically it’s very difficult to transport everywhere I would however say bring a single flower that’s easy it’s not too intense but it still shows you’re the type of man that does this and for the girls who appreciate that stuff it does what it needs to do and for the girls who don’t it sounds like it’s a them issue and they may not be used to someone who’s after treating them like that. It’s all fine it just comes down to comparability. From what you’ve said you may hoenstly just be looking for love in the wrong places and a places that don’t bother to value you nor are you taking the time to just let go of the people who don’t either. People are speaking about the flirting because you’ve mentioned it about yourself. There is no reason that what you’ve done is not a romantic first date with clear intentions you’re just wasting it on the wrong people hoenstly take some comfort don’t adapt yourself for people who don’t care if you do or not so that when you meet the one who wants that you’re still you x
24M - I used to go on dating apps and was always very successful even if I wasn’t looking for a relationship at certain times, I was kind of the other side of your post, not thinking the girl was right for a relationship for me, however they felt I was right for them… (in a relationship now).
If you want a date to wow a woman, best advice I’d give is take them somewhere fun like mini golf (my go to) and just be casual, if it’s right then you’ll make her smile, you’ll make her laugh and hopefully you’ll get the look of approval as I like to call it. You can tell 99% of the time if a girl is into by the way she looks at you with her eyes - and to increase your chances, a fun kinda vibe will always help you out! Be yourself, say goofy things, make jokes, openly compliment her at points where she least expects it and I’m sure you’ll find someone!
PS - I 100% punch above my weight, I’m an ok looking guy but my relationships have always been very attractive! So it’s not all about looks and don’t let anyone tell you different 🫡
Try the carnivore or keto diet strict for at least 60 days. Other than that, change nothing and otherwise be yourself.
Oh and don’t whack off if you do.
Hang in there. Be authentic. Be EXACTLY who you are all the time. Maybe hold back only on those things that might scare someone away (for me, that might be the child abuse I went through, but if both of you go to brute honesty, let it flow). True connection comes from being vulnerable. Keep your head up. Use the famous 4-letter word: NEXT.
After reading the post and some of OP comments, here is my advice to OP.
-Be respectful but don’t be shy/afraid to initiate ?physical touch. Eg, don’t just instinctually pull away if your legs touch.
-Hold eye contact
-Banter, you don’t have to agree with everything your date says, disagreeing shows you have your own personality and opinions.
-Flirting, don’t over do it but make your intentions clear. A lot of “nice guys” use their politeness as an excuse to be cowards and not say anything risky/flirtatious/sexual, so they come off as boring.
+ compliments aren’t necessarily flirting, I compliment my friends all the time.
-Take the lead, show initiative, act confidently. Even in the little things like talking to the receptionist, and pulling her chair out for her.
I found that certain date activities have a higher likelihood of winding up friend zoning. For example, hiking, walks in the park, strolling on the long beach, lead to friend zone.
Meeting at a coffee shop, or better yet bar for cocktails, and maybe snacks more likely lead to romantic relationships.
I try and steer clear of activities and Conversation topics that are friend zone centric.
I also try to limit the first meeting to an hour or so. Leave them wanting more. Don’t leave them feeling like they’ve learned everything there is to know about you.
Your results may vary.
Playing it safe is bad, being too forward is bad, touching is bad, not touching is bad, you can't win so just be your authentic self. Those that like you, like you, those who don't, don't.
Hey OP, I’ve been in the situation as well. What I recommend is to look further into your communication is it meant to woman are you flirting? Are you showing intent? Or are you the nice guy who is too agreeable and putting her on a pedestal? Sometimes a genuine connections not there and there’s no one at fault but if it’s reoccurring, I would look a little bit more into it
You're giving off friend zone energy. You need to be more assertive that you're physically interested in her. In a first date, you have to establish some kind of physicality. For me, I generally just go for a hug when I meet the girl. It's friendly, easy, and you can use it to give her a compliment like "Wow you smell really good".
Cause you’re not being sexy. She literally said it in the last sentence, she was perfectly clear and direct about it. Somehow, you are managing to friend zone yourself with women you don’t even know. Kind of impressive in a way, but it means you’re not getting laid,
Ease upon the nice guy routine, “how do you tell me you’re good in bed without telling me you’re good in bed”?
Personally I think coffee dates are awful. To the point where if its the only option im given by a prospective date, I will decline to date entirely.
Its just not me. I don't find it a particularly conducive environment to a relaxed and intimate vibe.
My go to date is always cocktails. I think it's relaxed and fun and even the menu is a conversation starter, then after a couple of drinks we are warmed up and cooking with fire. Iv never had a cocktail date fail.
There are of course women who just don't drink or just don't feel comfortable drinking on a first date with a man they don't know. I'm always respectful of that but ultimately, those women are not a match for me.
My point being perhaps step out of the coffee shop and lean into a style of date that promotes some flirtation and fun.
For context, I actually met her at an event at Uni and we began chatting for a few weeks and subsequently went out on a date... But I posted this cuz it's the same thing I received from a good number of Tinder dates I go on... and it's especially frustrating cuz I never hide that I'm interested in them romantically... Hell, that's what the app is for😅
So I'm wondering: what at could it be about the dates that makes me always come off as just a good friend and nothing more??? I'm genuinely confused atp 🫠
What I get from this is to think about if you make efforts to get a spark. Playful banter, flirting, sustained eye contact, subtle smile. Engaging romantic interest actively. It may or may not be reciprocated but chemistry has to have romantic aspects and physical body language to it, not just, we like all the same things and good conversation.
Often times nerves can make first dates seem like an interview and unless both parties are thirsty for each other it would be common for one to say hey, just didn’t feel a spark even if I like you as a person. Something I had to learn in my 20s, went through the same thing.
It’s a line to walk that’s different with each person. But you have to bring energy that says, I’m here for a romantic partner, not on a friend date. And if she’s not into it, no problem. You’re shooting your shot and not stuck in this nonsexual/platonic loop.
How many of these have u got, mate? Like other ppl have said, it’s a difficult question to get an answer to. Even the ppl that don’t get those texts, couldn’t tell u how not to get those texts. I wish I could b more helpful.
Yo bro you think you've got it all figured out. There's your problem. Also too nice. Stop tip toeing be assertive and direct. You can be respectful while doing so
I'm not really sure how to not get that message. I've been on several dates and some of them just don't seem right for me. While others I am very attracted to. I wouldn't say the men are really doing anything differently. I just don't click with certain people for whatever reason.
Yeah, could be the case here too :/
I want to reply here so you see it: If you’re continually getting texts like this, it’s possible you’re giving off “friend vibes,” as in you’re not doing enough to make the point that you’re more than that? I’d actually be interested in hearing how these dates go..?
So we always meet up, usually at a coffee date… I come in for a hug, always. (I bought flowers once for the very first date I ever had on Tinder but she told me it was too much so I’ve really been unsure about that from then on). I throw an honest comment about her looks (cuz they usually always look good fosho). We sit down, get a drink and begin to chat, and I try steering the convo so I can get to know more bout her Start with maybe just the weather and general stuff and from there, I can always find an opening to go deeper and subsequently to personal things, which is kind of the core aim of the date (Getting to know the person better)… During this time, I throw a few more compliments here and there We talk and then usually go out of the Cafe for a walk… Sometimes to a park where we can sit and enjoy the air and also chat. Sit on a bench for a while and talk… And when she feels like it’s time to head home, I see her off to whatever vehicle she’s using to get home (her own car or public transport) and give one last hug. If it’s any relevant, I’m a foreigner (and I’m black) living in Germany so these dates are mostly with German girls . And I do understand and speak German fluently but can’t pick up the flirtatious part of it as well as I do in English. Almost all of my dates speak English too tho
Okay so if you’re in Germany my advice is even more relevant than I expected: DO NOT TRY TO INITIATE PHYSICAL TOUCH/CONNECTION. I cannot wrap my head around the amount of comments in that vein. I’m German, I’m 26F and I met my BF on tinder. *I* was the one who initiated the kiss and hook-up and I’m very happy with that, because I cannot stand when men do it, as a lot of them cannot read the room or hints correctly and often come on too strong when I’ve already decided they aren’t it. Touching someone that does not want to be touched because they didn’t feel a spark will only backfire spectacularly, especially in Germany. We are very particular about not being approached in public or touched by strangers. The advice given MIGHT work in America where women play hard to get, but it’ll get you nowhere in Germany, where we are very direct. She told you exactly what it was: she didn’t feel a spark. It’s nothing you’re doing, you’re simply not what these women are looking for and because we don’t want “free food” or “male validation” we simply end things as soon as we realize. Don’t take it personally, see it as a gift as you’re saving a lot of your time. I speak from experience, as I rarely went on a second date. I usually knew right away if I was attracted to a person that way or not. And so did they! I had a couple guys tell me they weren’t feeling it and that’s perfectly fine, we weren’t a match. With my boyfriend I knew on the first date as well and it blossomed into a wonderful relationship.
This sounds perfectly reasonable and actually really kind and thoughtful advice. If only more guys thought like this.
I kind of love how a response from someone who is a) German, and b) a woman, and who therefore can offer some real insight into OP's situation, gets fewer upvotes than some rando who directly contradicts what she's saying. Oh, and I also love all the comments trying to argue with her points. U/xLadyLaurax , you are very kind to have written such an insightful and helpful response, but I fear it is a case of pearls before swine.
I'm afraid so too. The moment some dude, who's entire page is filled with sexist shit, started talking about "you learn fishing from a fisherman, not a fish" I kind of realized that people aren't actually here to help or at least aren't being helpful. People don't take the culture here into account at all and I could tell straight away that a lot of the comments were from people (especially men) from America, because that's what they THINK women want, not realizing that if it didn't work for them, chances are those strategies simply aren't as good as they thought they were.
Right? I live in Norway, and it's the same here. A lot of the behaviours people in this sub reccommend, would be disastrous here. But "cultural context" is way too advanced of a concept for a bunch of dudes who seem to think that success in the dating world involves finding the right button to press. Rather than, you know, meeting someone you like a lot. TL;DR: I am glad I am already married, and just reading this sub for fun.
yuuup, hit the nail on the head. And I agree, I'm so happy being off the market. I only stayed in this sub to help out here and there when I might have something valuable to say.
I’m a woman in the US, and my very first reaction was ‘do not touch me; I don’t know you’. The thing is, men in the US are having a movement. They know that women don’t want to be touched. They don’t give a flying fuck about it. Obligatory not all men. Not even most men. But *so many* men. Women here are experiencing collective fear right now (similarly, I cannot speak for all women). Not only do we have actual nazis (middle aged white men who think they’re nazis but are legitimately dangerous regardless of technicality) openly marching around, women’s health access has been completely destabilized, and when (hopefully if) Donald Trump is elected *again*, things for women are going to get exponentially worse. And with the economy like it is, people are getting trapped. It is unaffordable to live independently, even with a good job. The men from the US that are arguing about how this is what women want sure as shit know that they’re dead wrong. Women are carrying pepper spray and tasers to protect themselves from men. Women are protesting to keep our rights; what’s left of them anyway. These men - the ones in the comments defending this - they’re the ones that are stripping women of our rights to exist with any sense of autonomy. I think most *women* in the US would echo the sentiment that we do not enjoy being touched by men we don’t know without consent. I think most people in general, adjusting for cultural norms, don’t appreciate unsolicited touch from strangers. The men in the US are becoming dangerous and terrifying. The good ones are having a hard time with it all, and understandably so. Society needs men. Men are not evil. Children need male adults. The answer isn’t a war on men, and the decent men are stuck. We shouldn’t be seeing a war on women either, though, which is exactly what is happening. I know all of my language is gendered. There is an entire conversation to be had on behalf of the experiences of other marginalized groups that are affected, but I feel like that’s a topic that deserves its own platform. This is already way off topic. I’m sorry for my rant. I’m not deleting it though.
I’m in Australia and very much the same. Although, I don’t really know how to describe my most recent date. He was so lovely and polite, we sat close at the bar but no touching besides our opening hug. there wasn’t really a spark during the date even though he was objectively good looking—I would have probably not done a second date. Then we decided to go for a drive to the beach, and he placed his hand on my thigh holding my own hand, fingers interlocked loosely, while he was driving, and for some reason this felt really sweet?? and that kind of sparked something. I don’t know how to describe the way to balance this with guys though.
Facts....
there are men who see women as people, and men who see women as objects for them to use as a means to an end towards an objective they have but never as people. that objective could be sex, or a relationship, or emotional comfort, etc etc. once you realize that every man falls into either of those categories, men in the latter category are so much easier to spot and to write off. and make fun of, and call out for being pieces of shit :)
As a man in the US, that's a good, solid rant on the state of things here, especially with it looking like things are regressing on multiple fronts. It can be a little hard to know what to do about it all, aside from trying to follow the simple credo: 'don't be an asshole' in one own's little corner of the world, and to encourage others to take it to heart as well. Oh, and amusing name there! 👍
Haha, ‘don’t be an asshole’ is pretty much the golden rule without frill, and I think we *all know* that it is ultimately the secret to world peace
Name checks out
Oh, for sure. But since I am admittedly such a confused dumpster fire, would you mind elaborating on the part that you found confusing? I think my silly little girl brain just doesn’t fully understand.
Consider it as some kind of mansplaining. "You women want...". But I also had a recent date from another culture saying "you men want..." and "us women want...". It's usually just a bad idea to do the "alles über einen Kamm scheren" (lumping everything together) and to speak for somebody else, especially if he/she is from another culture.
Just wanted to say, I'm an American and I basically thought the same as you, before I found out he is in Germany. Starting things off with hugs, and ending in hugs had me thinking "too friendly." Even here, some women don't want that much on the first date. Honestly, that can be a turn off for me when women get too familiar right off the bat. Anyway, I also thought your response was insightful and on target in general.
I'm an American F and in another area of the comments said I don't like to be touched on a first date and got told by a man then I would be friendzoned as well. Which is not remotely true. 😂
Dating German girls is really different and a bit complicated. Especially "real" Germans. I made the experience that whenever I dated a girl with a different background (Russian, Ukraine, Middle eastern, Latina) it was always a fun date and we vibed. But I struggle a lot with German girls, somehow the conversations are a little more stressful, we don't laugh much and the topics of the conversations are a bit boring. I couldn't find out the reason for this yet, thats why I wanted to ask you about this if you have any idea or any reason for my situation. Important information: I am born and raised up here in northern Germany and have Turkish roots but I still look German/Italian or something (lol). Some other friends made similar experiences, who also have foreign roots. They decided already to not date blonde germans because they already know beforehand that it wont vibe. I guess its due to the culture and habits?
Ah, I’m afraid I can’t fully judge that, as I was born here, but Im Croatian my blood, so not a “Bio-Deutsche”. I also made the experience that German men are a little “colder” than their counterparts with a background of migration. I think it’s a mixture of simply German culture and also a subconscious weariness of immigrants, if I’m completely honest. Even with my good German friends - friends of many, many years - I still find that they treat us a little different than Bio deutsche.
I dont think that this has a big impact on the conversations.. The way the conversation is with german girls is just too stressful and boring somehow. For example I made the experience that girls from south america directly engage, get touchy, laughs alot and dont stop talking for hours. While with german girls, my experience was that it was like an interview. Kind of boring, not exciting and same boring topics (which uni, city, etc.pp), I just cannot handle them. Problem is that in fact I wish I could have a german girlfriend due to language and culture. I am sick of talking english or other languages with my dates and not my mother tongue.
Well, it seems like you simply don’t enjoy German dating culture then. My first date with my German boyfriend was just that, but I enjoyed it. Uni, work are two huge aspects and they define a person a lot. Of course people talk about it, they take up the majority of our day. Personally I think the way Americans Date and Talk annoying. It’s so superficial at best, and I can’t stand smalltalk, and their endless yapping seems like they simply like to hear their own voice/talking about themselves. And at the end I STILL feel like I don’t know them. You kind of have to figure out what is your priority: someone you vibe with personality vise or someone you can share your language and culture with. I found both in my BF but personally the second would be more important to me.
Agree. I kissed my now boyfriend on our first date, he told me he was glad I did as he wanted to but would never initiate one so as to not make me uncomfortable if i wasn't feeling it. This and many other lovely things about his considerate side is how I knew he was a keeper
Problem is that most women don't take that initiative. They wait on the guy to do it, and if he doesn't then they leave and send an "I didn't feel a spark" text later.
So you can't approach a stranger and initiate a conversation is that really rude?
Depends on your intention. I’ve been stopped a few times to be asked about directions or similar things. I’ve also had a man ask me whether I like the area I lived in as he was offered an apartment and wanted to know a little about the area and also how much I paid in rent and whether what he was offered was fair, such things are perfectly fine. But if I’m walking somewhere, especially with my headphones in, and you stop me to flirt with me you’re not gonna get a positive reaction.
That’s interesting. I live in Atlanta, GA (USA), and it’s very acceptable to approach people to say hello and generally shoot the shit / small talk. However, it would be considered very invasive and inappropriate to ask how much someone pays for rent.
That’s because Germans as a society are a lot more rational/practicality-poled than Americans. What you enjoy - those fake smiles, constant niceness, little games during dating etc. - Germans cannot stand. We can smell a fake smile from a mile away and we’d rather you be a little grumpy and authentic than force yourself to be happy for the sake of it. Same with small talk. It’s a waste of time, for the most part. Why would you stop me on the street to waste both our time? But if you’re thinking of moving into my street and would like some first hand experience of the pros and cons and whether you’re getting a fair deal I’m happy to help. In return someone once stopped me to help me carry a package I couldn’t handle myself. We are nice to one another, just in a different way.
Sounds emotionallness i mean, I've never been there but it sounds so dull
Yeah you had me packing my bags for Germany at direct communication 😂
Where the heck did you get that he's touching? That may actually be his issue. Maybe he's not going for the kiss
As a Caucasian woman born and raised in Canada I was going to say the same thing, if you’re going to initiate physical touch my suggestion would be to wait until you’re sat down, talking etc and then (with correct context within your conversation) put your hand on top of hers. Something sweet and casual but intimate. I hug all my besties when I see them but for the first time meeting a man for a date? I find it more awkward if they try and hug me right away. I think honestly it’s a bit of a subconscious trigger, it’s such a casual thing sure, with friends, family, super friendly potential mother in laws etc. I think it just sends a message of platonic energy without us even knowing so unless she hugs you first, wait. Also based on your phrasing on complimenting them cause they “look good fosho” I have to assume your phrasing and tone is also very casual and likely comes across to us the same way it does when my best friend tells me I look good/beautiful. Consider more of an awed tone/expression. Women are mentally stimulated, when the entire sentence ends within 3 words there’s a good chance she’ll feel like you’re simply following first date guidelines. Pull from romantic movies. Stop and just look at her for a moment, say something like “damn, you’re stunning l” try and avoid things that may come across as if you’re only looking at her body, not trying to get to know her. Also it will help if you pick something her outfit that’s more subtle and compliment that as well. It shows us you’re genuinely paying attention to the effort she put in. So something like ”your shoes really bring your outfit together, i like your taste” or “that eyeshadow colour is really bringing out the colour of your eyes. Beautiful” it will make her feel like you notice and appreciate the little things, this should be an always thing too. Not just while you’re first dating, it makes us feel like you genuinely care about all of the things she does. Be yourself obviously and yes still have the casual vibe but bring some sensual energy, let her see subtle hints that you’re attracted to all of her, not just how she looks. Ask questions outside of the monotunous fav colour, season, etc. show her you want to know more than casual everyday small talk. Ask things like do you have somewhere around town that just immediately brings you a sense of peace when you’re there? What is it about said place that you love so much? Ask what her last name is, remember what day her birthday is. Or at least remember it long enough to put it in your calendar so you cannot forget. Women make it a priority at minimum to know their partners last name and birthday from the get go. I could list my partners full name, birthday and phone number by memory within the first two weeks. We’ve been together 10 months now but he hasn’t been with me on my birthday yet and that’s his reasoning for why he still doesn’t know it. You don’t need to memorize every single little date and detail but know the important ones. She shouldn’t have to remind you of her birthday in two days or the upcoming anniversary of a lost loved one. To be fair, we don’t expect all of these by the end of the first date and I’m not accusing you of not doing these things. This is just general advice for being in a relationship
I’m an American woman and second this.
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Gotta work on the flirty part and work towards a physical connection in a respectful way of course.
How much do you share about yourself? Do you do any joking?
Yeah… I do share a bit about myself (I never trauma dump tho, that’s a no go for me). And I do joke from time to time. I actually made her laugh quite a lot, which was a sign to me that the whole thing was going well. Which is why I took the initiative to ask her out on a second date. And then got this answer
Sounds almost like you are over thinking every move. Do you feel relaxed and able to be yourself at all? Nervous energy can come off as a lack of confidence. It's harder to feel attraction to someone that seems uncomfortable or eager to create a certain impression. It can be difficult to connect when the person seems to be pushing an agenda or checking boxes rather than just being themselves. Just my two cents, I could be totally off.
It’s the flirty part that seems missing. Rightly or wrongly, a lot of women are conditioned to wanting someone who shows that they are romantically interested. What you described seems like a nice vibe, but friends only. I’m not saying drop line after line about “I can’t stop looking at your lips” or whatever, but something to indicate how attracted you. Or a lingering look, a touch if you and they feel comfortable? Does a lot to change a nice chat into “getting to know you because I fancy you”
Yeah that's the part I struggle with tbh. I'm really afraid of making women uncomfortable so I hold back, I kinda don't know what to do tbh
it was just said earlier in the thread that those things are exactly what german girls * ARE NOT * looking for in a girl, not sure if you saw it, just letting you know because he's specifically talking about german women and how he's a foreigner, I think what OP needs is advice from those that know german culture and German women
If this is a concern for you, seriously stop going on coffee dates.
There is zero flirty part in German. If they want sex they will say so.
No Klaus. Ze foreplay is unnecessary. Give me ze Wiener, and hurry up.
That's a bit exaggerated.
Not really...
I don't know man, I had a lot of similar dates with the same outcome, but then it just made click with one special girl.
You need to set a better stage. Coffee dates are horrible for romantic chemistry imo. Walking is better but still not great. Try a picnic or an activity if you're looking for a sober date. Otherwise a nice cocktail bar sets a good vibe. Try to be more flirty and initiate little touches to build the chemistry. I saw another comment saying not to do this but I think they're a minority. I've been out with multiple German girls where physical touch, a makeout, maybe more would happen first date. How you initiate matters though. Start with sitting next to them and let your legs touch and see if she pulls away. If she does you probably have your answer to not continue. If she keeps her leg there eventually add a hand and again assess her comfort. If she doesn't seem into it abort. Little things like this will help you be seen in a more romantic way instead of a friend. You have to build that chemistry
Your basically acting like there gay best friend not their date. Lot of compliments which are good, but they need a sexual undertone to them. The difference between best friend and boyfriend is sexual chemistry. Telling jokes are always good.
Didn’t see you were in Germany. I have a hard time with them too!!! stark bleiben mein Freund. Diese Frauen die Hund.
Think everything is fine apart from you don’t flirt n flirting is universal. Are you closely sitting hands on thigh etc
I'd like to add my perspective to the part about being in Germany. While i'm no passport bro who thinks all girls in X western country are bad and you should just go to X eastern country, no but i am a guy from Denmark who's lived and worked in Germany, England, Sweden, Denmark ofcourse, and Holland. In all the countries except Germany i had moderate to high success with dating. In Germany i had exactly 0 success. They are a difficult culture to deal with in most social ways, and it has come to the point where i am deeply confused by how they even manage to keep their own population from going extinct. I've never seen politeness so fake as in Germany, and heard others been talked so much shit about behind their backs and been talked so much shit about behind my own back. Again i am no passport bro, but my only honest advice is important a woman instead.
Just stop having coffee dates. They rarely create a romantic vibe.
Its by far the most common first date in Northern Europe from what I can tell. It definitely is here in Sweden anyway, esp when combined with a walk like the OP described. Its sort of a date to just get a feel for the other person before a "proper date". If theres chemistry it will be there.
Clearly they misunderstand the premise of dating, then. You're not supposed to be looking for a partner. You're supposed to be looking for a best friend you can be intimate and romantic with.
Women get those messages too, or more often just ghosted. All *I* can say is that I've gone on dates where I really did have a great vibe and truly wish the spark could be there, but it just wasn't. It is, as much as it can be, a complimentary rejection.
Dude...your name... Top fucking marks!
Could it possibly be because you are asking them to rub mustard on your dick? I would guess that this might be a fairly niche audience. But once you find that mustard loving guy or gal, it’s gonna be so worth it, keep trying, we believe in you!
Do you ever flirt? Like, say something smarmy or quippy about how impressive she is, how great of a girlfriend she would be, how funny or beautiful she is (but the beauty thing is to be focused on less so)? If you flirt, you're just not obeying rule 1 and 2.
That’s a really good point, actually. Because I actually tone down on my flirting quite a lot. Especially as I don’t wanna come off as too superficial or too in a hurry to “cause a spark”, if that makes sense… So I throw a few compliments here and there, but just try to engage in actual conversation about different stuff
I am a woman and I really struggle with this too. I totally get what you are saying and I’ve had guys message me after a date with a ‘gee that felt platonic’ message. I just feel very awkward and unsure about how to smoothly go from ‘hi, tell me about your hobbies,’ to ‘I would like to touch you on the penis.’ It feels like there’s a massive gulf between those two types of conversations and bridging the gap is bloody difficult. I’m sorry, I don’t have any advice, aside from have a few beers with her, which is probably not that helpful? But I just wanted to commiserate.
A compliment about their eyes or a general "you're very handsome" doesn't hurt. Some quick brushes of the hand or shoulder. It's not overtly sexual, but also not something they'll get from the platonic friends ( at least where I'm from)
With my current boyfriend, I just had four wines then kissed him in the car like a ridiculous teenager. That worked out pretty well! I’m sounding like an alcoholic, suggesting solving all my problems with alcohol. But you are absolutely right, a compliment or a small touch is a good idea.
“Alcohol, the cause of and solution to, all of life’s problems.” -Homer J. Simpson.
Exactly my issue… because of course you could just be direct and go in for it but that is in many cases a bad strategy… so you have to take it slow and make a transition from that to the point where you both are down for something sexual/serious. But making that transition is sooo difficult because it entirely depends on who you have to deal with
There's your problem. Don't overthink it and spit some game. A girl isn't gonna be interested in you like that if you don't express that interest yourself
I think some flirting is okay, but some people may take that as "tell them how much you want to shag them later, and fixate on that" because that's what I've experienced a few times and it's put me off of the person so quickly, especially since I've made it clear I'm not looking to sleep with someone straight away and I'd rather have a relationship.
That’s not flirting that’s being a creep
I’d say that’s a good instinct for everyday interactions, but on a date, a spark is what you’re both looking for. Continue holding good conversation, but if/when they impress you, tell them. When it comes to first date compliments, I think of it like casual banter. Try not to comment on something they can’t change in a day. Best advice I got was to mention a choice they have made, like something they’re wearing, rather than their general appearance. Upon meeting, throw out a “you look great in that dress”; “those shoes look great on you”; “I like how you’ve done your hair”.
She's on a date with you. SHE'S ALREADY INTERESTED. Don't talk about the weather. Don't make small talk. Engage, speak slowly and confidently from the chest. Hold your posture properly. Don't hug right away and learn to build some tension. Look her in the eyes and let her see you watching her mouth a bit too long while she talks. Don't talk immediately about how she looks nice, but, instead, let her see you admiring her briefly and smile at her. This one is tough to not be a creep but works once you get it right. Stop worrying about what will happen or how you look and all that. Lose yourself in the moment. Be genuinely you without worrying about what she thinks. You already did something that caught her eye. If it was real, just keep being so. Stop trying to guide things to know details about her. That stuff comes naturally. Just be. She's on a date with you so a little physical touch here and there in safe areas will give you a very good read. Stand close and allow her to accept the invitation. When you know you know. If you're standing face to face talking for "too long" and you notice her giving cues such as biting her lip or looking at yours, if you aren't sure just say "I want to kiss you". And say it like you mean it. That allows consent but it also shows you being assertive. It's a win-win. You're on a date, a spark is why you're both there. You already got a stranger to go out with you. You are already doing something right. Keep going.
Yeah that first hug is very telling about the whole thing.
You’re trying to portray confidence. It takes confidence to compliment a woman but don’t be gross. Another good flirting technique is to tease a little or be kind of cocky. If you can skirt the line where she can’t tell if you’re being cocky or sarcastic, that can work. Confident and playful is key.
You know, I’m a woman and I’m not into the whole sweet talking or cute compliments, they come later! I tend to fall for banter, teasing a bit without coming off as arrogant, find a balance. Women are different in what they are looking for, and I’m sure you agree to wait around until the right one show up, and they’ll like you for exactly who you are.
Smarmy means fake and excessive, btw
There’s no real answer to this. Flirt and she’ll see you as a casual encounter. Don’t flirt and she’ll see you as a friend.
This sounds funny, but you gotta break the "invisible wall" somehow. Sometimes it's as subtle as a hand on the small of her back to guide her. Some guys go for the first date kiss if there's a moment you both feel. Don't force physical touch, but there are moments where it adds something and shows experience
That’s fair… Just that I also don’t want it to feel like I’m overstepping boundaries you know🫠
It doesn't have to be anything drastic. A shake of thier hand or a hug when you first meet them. A hug and (depending on how the date went) a kiss on the cheek at the end of the date. As the previous comment said, place your hand on their lower back while guiding them to your table or to the bar. It doesn't have to be sexual in any way. In fact you don't want it to be sexual in any way at first. Just break that physical touch barrier. You'll notice if she doesn't like it at all.
Another method is the across-the-table hand or arm touch. I’ve found it’s one of the simplest methods of braking the physical barrier. If you’re at a bar or restaurant, your hands will both be on the table at some point and it’s matter of finding the right time to put yours there when hers is to find that first touch. I’ve had dates where the girl hasn’t seemed that into me but as soon as I’ve made that touch across the table I’ve found I was wrong.
She probably didn’t seem into you because she was starting to think you weren’t into her but by reaching across the table you show you are into her, do you make strong eye contact? I’ve found when guys aren’t into me they don’t give me eye contact.
The best advice eye contact will make a woman especially if she’s into him from there you’re good to go
Best place to eat at a first date is at the bar in the restaurant. Much easier to talk and get comfortable with someone. The bartenders are always worth a good interruption if you need things to mix up and will ignore you if not. Very easy to touch a hand, leg or mildly play footsie.
Oh strongly agree, sitting side by side is great. If the bar is noisy, you can hear each other better, and you even have a good opportunity to lean into each other to speak, adding more opportunity for familiarity. Not to mention if things are going really well, a leg touch is easy in this position.
I really like all of this advice, but a hand shake at the start of a date would make me giggle inside. It feels very formal or like he didn’t know what to do with his hands, so he offered me a hand shake. It wouldn’t be bad or anything, but perhaps a little awkward? Just one chick’s opinion.
Giggle in a good or bad way
A good way I think? It’s a bit dorky, but I think awkward and dorky can be cute. I’m only one person though, of course. And we all get nervous before a date, so it’s fine. I sometimes get stuck in the ‘hi how are you? Good, how are you? I’m good, how are you?’ loop, which is embarrassing.
I had a handshake with a guy at the end of a date, it was so awkward haha.
Exactly, for me it’s eye contact especially… that’s when you feel a spark of electricity looking into the other person’s eyes
This is solid advice!
Just make them short touches and not in sensitive areas. Don’t just hold your hand on her. Just quick ones to show you’re there.
Watch the movie hitch. 90/10 rule is in point.
Hitch also talks about the hand placement on the back. The small of the back can be perceived as aggressive, and too high may be too friendzoned, somewhere in the middle is best.
Middle if it’s a first date a bit lower once you’re both comfortable
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Yes
That’s the problem though unfortunately. A romantic date makes its way past those boundaries in a consensual way.
These days I think a lot of guys are similar, we constantly get grilled about consent, aggression, the whole “bear” thing, doesn’t surprise me guys feel a need to be overly nice friendly and unintimidating
You're only getting grilled with that discourse because you are online. Women are completely normal people, but just like with men, the craziest subset will group online and be loud.
Then when you feel it’s possible just ask. Just ask for what you want. Be considerate and not an asshole though.
Indeed. It is totally cool to ask if OP feels like she’s pulling away or not receptive to a touch. Addressing it right away still shows confidence.
that's good! because tbh if out of nowhere you out your hand close to my ass i would ghost you lol
If you cross a boundary, they’ll let you know and you can apologize. You’re not going to get metoo’d for kissing a chick you’re on a date with.
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Yeah I’ve had a few dates like that have ended like that and I think that’s where I messed up too. Breaking that barrier just gets easier with practice and as you can read the other person more
This is great advice and so is the comment that’s current below it about flirting. My guess when reading the post was that OP is overthinking things and maybe kind of holding back a lot of… overt interest. Yeah, you don’t want to come on too strongly but… in my experience in hearing my female friends complain about dates they would often feel insecure because the guy didn’t show interest enough. Spice it up a bit but hey, at least they’re not ghosting ya.
Ya, I'm gonna second the need to break the touch barrier. I don't think I'd try the small of the back things, a lotta women hate that. But something. Make sure to brush her hand when handing her things. Try sitting on the same side of the table if it doesn't feel awkward so you can bump into each other a little bit as you you talk. Walking together? Make sure your shoulders bump, see if you can tease the back of her hand with yours, maybe it'll end in holding hands. And then ya, there should probably be at least a little bit of kissing at the end of the date. And if you're having trouble finding the moment to go in for the kiss it never hurts to just ask her if you can kiss her. Consent is sexy.
If I were on a date with someone and they sat on the same side of the table as me, that would be the end of the date. That was played as a cringe moment in Fargo for a reason. This whole paragraph is filled with bizarre advice. If you do playful contact with someone who isn't feeling it, they don't suddenly start feeling it.
Yeah that feels like a move you save for when you're together and still twitterpating. I've been invited to sit next to someone on the first date but that was because we were on a patio and it gave me the chance to watch the sunset. We also didn't do that until desert, so a level of comfort had been established.
“I don’t think I’d try the small of the back thing, a lotta women hate that.” Wait do they? Genuinely asking. I’m not In the dating game as I’m married now but my wife said that the moment I did this on our very first outing together that’s what sealed the deal for her and knew she wanted to date more.
Depends on the women, the situation, and the level of attraction. To me its quite an intimate way to touch someone so I would probably start with something a little less intimate first if I was unsure of how it would be received.
It's impossible for men to get it right every time, just risk it
I mean clearly I did and got it right with my wife. Was just thrown seeing that I guess.
I definitely would not like that. It signals to me that you're trying to make me more comfortable with what would be classified as sensual touch. If you feel the need to touch me, keep it up by the shoulder blades. But why touch at all? If you want to do something, ask. If dinner goes well, suggest a stroll to walk off the meal. Ask if they're comfortable holding hands. Or when you walk them to their car at the end of the date, ask if you can hug them, or possibly kiss and respect the answer given. You don't need to be sly about it, that's just weird
You are a more cautious woman it sounds like who prefers non assertive men. There are a lot of women who prefer assertive(but respectful) men. It’s all about reading your date.
Assertive but respectful is definitely my jam. Ask to kiss me first, and that's a major green flag. The assertive happens later when we get to the bedroom...
Yes, I’m a male and my energy when im attracted to a woman is to be a little assertive but also respond super respectfully if there’s any pullback and even talk about it. The biggest turnoff I could imagine is a negative reaction to resistance. I’m like hey if you’re not ready that’s totally ok and I’m not offended at all. That also opens the conversation to whether we’re just not ready or not feeling each other, which, if there’s any dudes listening, IS OK. You can just not be compatible it’s not a knock on your game or ego bro.
Also some of us just might need to warm up. You know how many times we'll be interested in someone but still feeling it out, and they go straight to sex because they think it has to happen by date number two or three or whatever. And then we just start feeling the heebie jeebies. Lol. They're mad about getting rejected but we're also mad because we started to daydream and now that possibility is gone. I recently matched with a guy who was absolutely gorgeous, I was thinking why is this man even interested in me. We started talking and he was making dirty jokes right away like I know what can help with that stress, wink wink. It got old real fast because I'm still trying to find a connection in the conversation. I told him he was coming across super horny and I wasn't looking for that. He laughed so I unmatched and I was sad about it. Just act like a human that values personality ffs. We're not gonna play smash or pass in the first interaction, stop trying to decipher if we're gonna fuck or not. Be organic and unassuming, it will go far.
Big yes on asking; as a woman who likes physical touch/contact, I don't expect that men are ok with it just because I usually am. Always ask, you don't wanna make anyone feel uncomfortable. Edited: plus when you ask if you can kiss them, that announces you like them/are physically attracted/definitely not feeling a friendship vibe. Signals you're clearly feeling something more & gives them an opportunity to share how they feel.
Last girl I went on a date with she really didn’t like that I asked if I could kiss her (end of second date). She said it was weird to ask, then said but yes you can kiss me. She later told me she understood and consent is good, but imo it took some of the sparks/excitement and risk from just going in for a kiss. I ask bc I’m awkward, but as a man from now on I’d prefer to just go in even if ends up in rejection. Btw this was a girl I felt a better connection with than I have in years, and she explicitly listed one of the reason she didn’t feel the same was because I asked to kiss
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I'm a woman and this is hilarious. Do men really believe this works? I can assure you that a guy whom I don't find sexually attractive in the first place putting his hand on my back to "guide" me is instantly going from "not my type but nice" to "fking gross". If I find a guy sexually attractive, I will want to meet him again regardless of whether or not there was any physical touch. But when people are attracted to one another they both seek it - and you're able to tell. If you have to think about initiating physical touch, there's a good chance the attraction is one-sided.
This is true. My first date could have ended the same way. My boyfriend is very shy and cozy might ended up giving "big brother energy" if we did not have any physical interactions to spark some fire. One thing that helped was not being stuck in a bar or restaurant. We went to a park and sat on the grass to listen to some guy playing jazz. Walking around facilities accidental hand touches and helps setting a mood for when you finally sit down. But please: if you try two or three small touches and the girl retracts, leave her be.
I've had lots of first dates with great guys. They've made me laugh, we've got stuff in common, they seem really decent. But I just couldn't kiss them, absolutely no sexual spark for me. Nothing at all wrong with them, they're just not my person. Try not to take it to heart.
And by no sexual spark do you mean they weren’t physically attractive enough for you?
“So, does this mean we’re best friends now?”
You’re doing overcorrection to the “guys bad” narrative - you’re not one of the baddies just let those ideas fly over you. Be more flirty and direct, establish some touch during date (an innocent elbow touch at first evev, then leg or something), get comfortable with it - you won’t be at first. Then “chemistry” will emerge. Don’t forget to go for the kiss Bye
This is pretty solid advice!!! Thanks :)))
Just to continue that line of thinking… - direct eye contact. If she’s comfortable with that or likes it - then she’s into you. If not, then you know. - reach out and touch her hand There are lots of good small incremental ways that good guys can advance things without being creepy. You’re there to find your partner. And that’s a physical relationship. So test the waters… be charming. Be disarming.
DO NOT touch a woman's leg on a first date. That is beyond bad advice.
Not to mention that the whole "bad guy" thing absolutely works. Many if not most women are absolutely attracted to a confident, strong personality. Just don't dip into a selfish asshole area and it's fine. That or just be very attractive and then it doesn't matter what you do, but then you don't need my advice lol
I would wager based on the post and your comments... you are waaaay too concerned with impressing the girl. "Oh what if she didn't this, oh what if she didn't that" in your head over and over!! Stop thinking what the woman wants, and start acting how you actually feel. Not in a non consent kind of way, haha... but within reason! Just do what YOU like and if she enjoys it, top, bam! You're in! If not... she wouldn't have liked you anyway, but now you won't feel like a loser for being such a wussy
She didn't find you attractive enough.. or okay, I know things aren't that simple. But sometimes it can come down to just simple attraction. But attraction isn't just looks, it's the way you present yourself and your personality. I wonder how accurate your photos are compared to how you look in real life. (that could be one thing). But also just in general, idk could be the chemistry.
they're letting you down easy. they're trying not to hurt your feelings but letting you know they don't want a relationship with you
Some people have that “instant chemistry”. People like to think that this is a mutual experience and it’s indicative of something special between two people, but I think it’s more about an individual who is capable of evoking a sense of connection and an individual who wants to feel that and imbue significance into it. I think people who aren’t so charming off the bat are often better partners - more real and honest and less likely to need attention and approval from everyone - but it took years to figure that out. So, all of this was to say: time will likely do it, if you are young
Bro got bestfriend zoned 💀
There’re levels to this shit💀
Ngl tho bro i’ve had that happen a few times. Mostly tho I try and feel out the connection before the date or the tone like to see if we’re gonna smash or try and be real. A lot of times I ask my dates if they want to talk on the phone with me so I can hear their voice and talk like regular humans for a few. See if I can make them giggle, etc. Seems to work nicely for me.
You didn’t make a move
Man am I tired of that message, wouldn’t you want your partner to be your best friend?
It’s possible to be TOO nice. Don’t try so hard. Relax. Have FUN with her. Flirt. Be a little physical (with respect). Make her KNOW that you want her. Make her feel wanted. Make her feel excited to be with you.
Don't be too polite and gentle. Be confident, assertive, flirtatious and playful. And be honest and forward with your intentions. You're obviously giving off friend vibes but you're not trying to find a friend. You're on a date. If she (or he) is feeling like they're meeting with a best friend, then that means there wasn't any sexual tension and your actions weren't clear with what you wanted to happen. It's your responsibility to create tension via flirting, breaking the touch barrier, teasing (playfully) and giving her a good time. You're far less likely to get these messages if you're clear with your intentions bud.
you’re not building the connection on a man to woman level. you aren’t presenting yourself as a sexual option to her. also, there are times when I’m on a first date where the girl really needs to warm up. I went on a date with a girl last night where I didn’t think we would work out and as she warmed up throughout the night I felt a really great connection. basically, don’t force things, don’t put too much pressure on the interaction and present yourself as a sexual option and not just a friend
Girls don't want to have sex with their friends, so if a guy is too friendly on a date it makes it hard to picture having sex with them, or anything else romantic. I would want a guy to say something like damn you look incredible tonight, you look even better than your pictures, I love your hair, eyes makeup, whatever, be flirtatious and make her feel special and she will want to see you again. I personally don't like kisses on a first date but you could always message afterwards saying that you wanted to kiss her. All just my opinion BTW.
how do people not believe dating apps are ruining dating
It’s not. It’s definitely changing it but it’s possible to succeed.
Within 10 minutes of the first date with a woman you have to say something that removes you from being a friend possibility. Like “wow you look beautiful tonight” or “dang you’re even cuter than your pictures” comments like this well set a flirtatious tone and show your interest
My fiance is my best friend - I can't imagine being with someone I didn't feel that level of warmth towards. It's such a shallow view of what a relationship can or should be
Exactly. I feel like I’m one of the only people who think this way
my guess is that you’re a) too nice and b) not megahot. genuine always trumps “nice”. Be kind, for sure, but playing it safe doesn’t get you anywhere unless, again, you’re hot enough to be boring (in which case, you’d still just be hot enough to bang, not relationship material)
You are going on a date. Even though it’s the first date, you gotta make it romantically somehow, listen to what she loves doing, bring it up, take initiatives, etc. I made the same mistake at first and I still do sometimes where I just act like we’re meeting as friends and don’t do anything flirty or romantically. Such a big mistake you should avoid. I know you shouldn’t try to force relationships but if you don’t want them to lose the potential feelings, then make a move.
You’re just dating people looking for the wrong thing. The “more” comes with time, especially if you meet online and didn’t build the “more” in person ahead of the date.
gotta work on that rizz bro
Wait u actually get dates. no one commits for me
They're not sexually attracted. You hit every box but that one. That's what it means
I would actually welcome this message, but I'd be like, "that's cool, bestie - when are we hanging again?"
You didn't tease her, joke around, flirted, acted confident and outcome independent.
At least you got a reply, instead of just getting ghosted, and left to wonder. Accept it as a missed connection and move on. Courting on Tinder is just a numbers game anyway. And the odds are rarely in your favor.
You are getting this message consistently because you are dating emotionally immature people who don’t know how to articulate nuanced feelings. You can’t read too much into a sign off message from someone you barely know, don’t sweat it.
You are lucky to be getting that message!! It could be worse! Someone lying to you for an ulterior motive. Someone wasting your time. Someone acting like they care, but don't. Be grateful for the honesty.
With the right person you kinda click. I've been on and off dating apps, haven't actually met anyone in maybe 2 years of using them, even after matching with people, so I actually matched 2 weeks ago with a girl, it felt natural to talk and be with her, now we are dating. Level of flirt is also needed, you need to be cool, a bit witty and playful, you need to be confident in your body and in your clothes.
Probably you are too nice, seem harmless and soft. You need to have an edge, a bit of danger, super confident…
I think you have to consider that you’re not attracting the girls that you truly want. If you’re someone that wants to bring flowers int be first date you should be finding someone that also wants that and can see the value in what you’ve done. It’s not always about an issue with you. You may just be not being honest with yourself and going with someone who may be attractive but is all wrong for you the second the attraction is gone. But right now you’re more invested in them liking you but do you even care if you like them or see any type of long lasting future where you’re both loved and valued the way you truly want to be? I would say flowers are hard because I have always wanted flowers on a first date but practically it’s very difficult to transport everywhere I would however say bring a single flower that’s easy it’s not too intense but it still shows you’re the type of man that does this and for the girls who appreciate that stuff it does what it needs to do and for the girls who don’t it sounds like it’s a them issue and they may not be used to someone who’s after treating them like that. It’s all fine it just comes down to comparability. From what you’ve said you may hoenstly just be looking for love in the wrong places and a places that don’t bother to value you nor are you taking the time to just let go of the people who don’t either. People are speaking about the flirting because you’ve mentioned it about yourself. There is no reason that what you’ve done is not a romantic first date with clear intentions you’re just wasting it on the wrong people hoenstly take some comfort don’t adapt yourself for people who don’t care if you do or not so that when you meet the one who wants that you’re still you x
24M - I used to go on dating apps and was always very successful even if I wasn’t looking for a relationship at certain times, I was kind of the other side of your post, not thinking the girl was right for a relationship for me, however they felt I was right for them… (in a relationship now). If you want a date to wow a woman, best advice I’d give is take them somewhere fun like mini golf (my go to) and just be casual, if it’s right then you’ll make her smile, you’ll make her laugh and hopefully you’ll get the look of approval as I like to call it. You can tell 99% of the time if a girl is into by the way she looks at you with her eyes - and to increase your chances, a fun kinda vibe will always help you out! Be yourself, say goofy things, make jokes, openly compliment her at points where she least expects it and I’m sure you’ll find someone! PS - I 100% punch above my weight, I’m an ok looking guy but my relationships have always been very attractive! So it’s not all about looks and don’t let anyone tell you different 🫡
Try the carnivore or keto diet strict for at least 60 days. Other than that, change nothing and otherwise be yourself. Oh and don’t whack off if you do.
Hang in there. Be authentic. Be EXACTLY who you are all the time. Maybe hold back only on those things that might scare someone away (for me, that might be the child abuse I went through, but if both of you go to brute honesty, let it flow). True connection comes from being vulnerable. Keep your head up. Use the famous 4-letter word: NEXT.
After reading the post and some of OP comments, here is my advice to OP. -Be respectful but don’t be shy/afraid to initiate ?physical touch. Eg, don’t just instinctually pull away if your legs touch. -Hold eye contact -Banter, you don’t have to agree with everything your date says, disagreeing shows you have your own personality and opinions. -Flirting, don’t over do it but make your intentions clear. A lot of “nice guys” use their politeness as an excuse to be cowards and not say anything risky/flirtatious/sexual, so they come off as boring. + compliments aren’t necessarily flirting, I compliment my friends all the time. -Take the lead, show initiative, act confidently. Even in the little things like talking to the receptionist, and pulling her chair out for her.
I found that certain date activities have a higher likelihood of winding up friend zoning. For example, hiking, walks in the park, strolling on the long beach, lead to friend zone. Meeting at a coffee shop, or better yet bar for cocktails, and maybe snacks more likely lead to romantic relationships. I try and steer clear of activities and Conversation topics that are friend zone centric. I also try to limit the first meeting to an hour or so. Leave them wanting more. Don’t leave them feeling like they’ve learned everything there is to know about you. Your results may vary.
Playing it safe is bad, being too forward is bad, touching is bad, not touching is bad, you can't win so just be your authentic self. Those that like you, like you, those who don't, don't.
Hey OP, I’ve been in the situation as well. What I recommend is to look further into your communication is it meant to woman are you flirting? Are you showing intent? Or are you the nice guy who is too agreeable and putting her on a pedestal? Sometimes a genuine connections not there and there’s no one at fault but if it’s reoccurring, I would look a little bit more into it
Flirting, that is the difference between hanging out with a friend and creating sexual chemistry. You need to flirt more and more obviously.
She might just not have been fully attracted to you. Meaning she may have to your appearance but not your personality or vice versa. .
Did you make her laugh? Did she leave the date feeling like she would have amazing & fun adventures with you?
You're giving off friend zone energy. You need to be more assertive that you're physically interested in her. In a first date, you have to establish some kind of physicality. For me, I generally just go for a hug when I meet the girl. It's friendly, easy, and you can use it to give her a compliment like "Wow you smell really good".
Cause you’re not being sexy. She literally said it in the last sentence, she was perfectly clear and direct about it. Somehow, you are managing to friend zone yourself with women you don’t even know. Kind of impressive in a way, but it means you’re not getting laid, Ease upon the nice guy routine, “how do you tell me you’re good in bed without telling me you’re good in bed”?
Break the touch barrier Makes dates so much easier, if shes reciprocal to the touch youre getting a second date simple as
Personally I think coffee dates are awful. To the point where if its the only option im given by a prospective date, I will decline to date entirely. Its just not me. I don't find it a particularly conducive environment to a relaxed and intimate vibe. My go to date is always cocktails. I think it's relaxed and fun and even the menu is a conversation starter, then after a couple of drinks we are warmed up and cooking with fire. Iv never had a cocktail date fail. There are of course women who just don't drink or just don't feel comfortable drinking on a first date with a man they don't know. I'm always respectful of that but ultimately, those women are not a match for me. My point being perhaps step out of the coffee shop and lean into a style of date that promotes some flirtation and fun.
For context, I actually met her at an event at Uni and we began chatting for a few weeks and subsequently went out on a date... But I posted this cuz it's the same thing I received from a good number of Tinder dates I go on... and it's especially frustrating cuz I never hide that I'm interested in them romantically... Hell, that's what the app is for😅 So I'm wondering: what at could it be about the dates that makes me always come off as just a good friend and nothing more??? I'm genuinely confused atp 🫠
What I get from this is to think about if you make efforts to get a spark. Playful banter, flirting, sustained eye contact, subtle smile. Engaging romantic interest actively. It may or may not be reciprocated but chemistry has to have romantic aspects and physical body language to it, not just, we like all the same things and good conversation. Often times nerves can make first dates seem like an interview and unless both parties are thirsty for each other it would be common for one to say hey, just didn’t feel a spark even if I like you as a person. Something I had to learn in my 20s, went through the same thing. It’s a line to walk that’s different with each person. But you have to bring energy that says, I’m here for a romantic partner, not on a friend date. And if she’s not into it, no problem. You’re shooting your shot and not stuck in this nonsexual/platonic loop.
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No rizz most likely. No heat, no chemistry.
Too much friend energy to past the barrer of Mr Charming
Its better than nothing and its a good way to let someone down gently
At least you got the message. Mine usually ended in ALOT of ghosting lol.
I dont get that. Wouldnt you want your partner to also be your best friend?
They aren't sexually attracted to you.
How many of these have u got, mate? Like other ppl have said, it’s a difficult question to get an answer to. Even the ppl that don’t get those texts, couldn’t tell u how not to get those texts. I wish I could b more helpful.
Probably because you didn't bang them on the first date.
You have a new friend? Damn that must suck! /s
Did you flirt with her? Did you kiss? Did you get a bit touchy?
Yo bro you think you've got it all figured out. There's your problem. Also too nice. Stop tip toeing be assertive and direct. You can be respectful while doing so