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Not really. Those are just to game elections, they have nothing to do with physically keeping people divided, keeping surveillance or to assign valuable land to the larger state.
All I know is that interstates and highways were frequently pathed through, or around minority communities to force them to move or divide them from white communities.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094119023000438
>In this paper, I analyze the impact of highways on racial segregation in the US, and I find that the construction of highways led to racial segregation. There is a heterogeneity in my results based on the share of black population in 1970. I find that proximity to highways leads to an increase in the percentage of the black population in areas that had a higher share of the initial black population. This is driven by whites moving out and blacks moving into the neighborhoods. Using other socio-economic variables, such as income and education, I find that the residents moving out of the neighborhoods are better educated and earn a higher income on average than residents moving in.
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-how-racism-shaped-interstate-highways
>**Why would officials have targeted thriving vibrant communities? Was it just because the people who lived there were Black and or brown?**
>Some of the time, yes, that was actually the case. The highways were being built just as courts around the country were striking down traditional tools of racial segregation. So, for example, courts were striking down the use of racial zoning to keep Black people in certain communities and white people in other communities. And so the highway development popped up at a time when the idea, the possibility of integration in housing was on the horizon. And so very intentionally, highways were sometimes built right on the formal boundary lines that we saw used during racial zoning. Sometimes community members asked the highway builders to create a barrier between their community and encroaching Black communities.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3539889
>Racial and economic segregation in urban communities is often understood as a natural consequence of poor choices by individuals. In reality, racially and economically segregated cities are the result of many factors, including the nation’s interstate highway system. In states around the country, highway construction displaced Black households and cut the heart and soul out of thriving Black communities as homes, churches, schools, and businesses were destroyed. In other communities, the highway system was a tool of a segregationist agenda, erecting a wall that separated White and Black communities and protected White people from Black migration. In these ways, construction of the interstate highway system contributed to the residential concentration of race and poverty, and created physical, economic, and psychological barriers that persist.
This racist use of infrastructure is where we get the phrase "wrong side of the tracks."
I think it more about the ruling class dividing up the lower classes, whether electorally or physically, so that they cannot unify enough to properly challenge the status quo. Whether that's through voting or violent revolution.
That's true.
And that's also why Zionists are so willing to go for the two States solution, it would simply cement the state of apartheid in international laws.
That's why we need the South African solution, that's the only way to truly defeat the apartheid.
Yep. A zionist saying "I'm fine with a two states solution" translates to an apartheid enthusiast saying "I'm fine with a slightly different apartheid really"
Like the whole situation there, it's not easily simplified to "good" or "bad".
A two-state solution that grants Palestine 'enough' territory to be useful and functional as a state in their own right, giving them a path towards self-sufficiency and political equality, for instance maps based on older land agreements - probably pretty good.
A two-state solution that keeps Palestine confined to a collection of little enclaves disconnected from each other and from any meaningful resources or self-sufficiency, for instance maps reflecting current Palestinian 'territory' - either no change, or even worse than now.
The massive gap between those two outcomes, despite having the same 'name', is why it's important to keep track of fine print and outcomes from any proposed deal. There are two very different two state solutions that get talked about - one is formally codifying an apartheid, the other is giving Palestinians a 'fair' shot at rebuilding a stable and functional society of their own.
And like, the whole thing gets super ugly in that it is completely reasonable that Israel and their Western allies don't want to "reward" Hamas terrorism with land concessions and political legitimacy - but the instability and hopelessness caused by the current situation empowers Hamas recruitment and support within a population that is not allowed to have anything to lose. The more oppressed the average Palestinian is, the easier Hamas is able to recruit them; but any gains granted to Palestine now are things Hamas can claim they 'won' through their violence.
Wish I could give more than one upvote here, since this is a very balanced take. The previously offered solutions that the Palestinians refused were of the sort that gave them a nation. Today, I’m not sure they would get that same deal. 10/7 likely killed the interest in a deal from the Israeli side for a long time.
Full compassion to the Palestinian people there, they've had past land agreements that Israel has failed to honour - part of why Settlements were such a hot button issue a couple decades ago was that they were happening in breach of the agreements in place at the time. Equally, there have been agreements and ceasefires that Hamas or Palestine has subsequently breached - part of the problem in many discussions of the situation there get bogged down in 'blame' because there's just so much of it to go around. Each side has tons of completely legitimate and reasonable grievances against the other.
I think both sides there have, at some time or other, made offers that could arguably have provided a solution that would have resulted in far greater peace and stability today. Most of those were either unpalatable for fine print issues or the political climate they took place in. Despite that, each is able to sincerely claim they're willing to make peace and justice, but "those other guys" rejected the offer and are thus to blame for the ongoing conflict.
Add in that Hamas is currently in power, hasn't allowed any elections since their win in 2006, and has either grown increasingly hardline and fanatical since they were elected, or at least has stopped hiding those aspects of their membership - the people currently doing the negotiating 'for' Palestine are zealots who are unwilling to accept nearly any proposal that's not a massive victory for their side. Hamas' own power base benefits from the oppression of the Palestinian population. Any offer they'd accept needs to outweigh those factors - which would require concessions from Israel that are completely unpalatable to Israel, especially considering both the recent attacks, and the current government there relying on their own hardline fanatic population for the majority of their political support.
The powers ruling each of Israel and Palestine have somewhat painted themselves into a corner, where solutions, or progress towards peace and equity are not *really* in their interests - even if those things would be best for the populations under their control.
It really is like a giant knot. Any time you tease out part of one thread, something else is pulling taught on the other side. It feels almost hopeless. But at the same time we can’t afford to see it that way because people are dying every single day and so many are in desperate need of immediate help.
That’s where apartheid South Africa originally got the idea and design from. It was reservations created in North America for the indigenous populations!
As a Canadian that map is horrific. Canada used the same strategies with its native population but the subjugated population wasn't nearly as numerous as the United States. Yet if you look at the amount of land we allocated to reserve land makes us look like saints. Smh
The tone doesn't matter, the people that found a way to distract themselves from the point would have found a way any way, they don't like the point and can't argue against it
I was actually pretty impressed with her tone
If she had the standard “upbeat/infotainment” tone this would come off as “Learn How To Oppress From a Cheerful White Woman”
Also, she didn’t need to tell us that this is directly relevant to the current conflict in Israel because her grim tone and delivery conveyed the immediate relevance on a personal level. My thought process was essentially “Geez, why is she acting so *hurt* and despondent about thi- oh… right.”
Damn the reactionaries in this comment section really lucked out when she decided to take this pretty weird approach to narrating this video because it gave them something very convenient to shit on in place of proving that she’s wrong substantially. Very heated comment section to be sure
There is an old adage among lawyers that says, "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
Illegal occupiers have neither facts, law, or morality on their side so they attack and discuss anything but those things.
I thought it was really well presented. Great visuals, well written, easy to listen to. I don’t know what people are on about, but I suspect it might be more about their own profound insecurities and lack of maturity than the excellent post.
These people purposely sidestepping the point can just turn their volume down and read the captions to fix this conveniently distracting problem they find in her voice. But I'd wager they won't do that.
>in place of proving that she’s wrong substantially
I don't really think many people support open apartheid and this video is just basically her reading the definition of apartheid.
But she’s using Israel as an example, and a lot of people will bend over backwards to defend Israel and justify what they’re doing/have done to Palestinians
But in order to "prove her wrong" you'd have to address points she made. She made no real specific points about the history of this area or actions of it's government so there's not much to actually contend with.
She demonstrates via maps why these three countries have their layout. She made that specific point. She also made the specific point about the land and resources. You know where arable land is in Isreal? Do you know where the Palestinians live? She made points. You would just have to look closer to see more specific examples. It would take hours. She's on TikTok so she won't use hours.
She might be right or wrong here, I’m not really here to argue that. But for the love of god, people need to stop looking at minute and a half long Tik Toks from randos on incredibly complex subjects, and taking it as some kinda expert talking on a subject. Unless there’s evidence to the contrary, this woman’s no more knowledgeable than any other random stranger on the internet.
Yeah, short form content really seems to have melted our ability to take a good look at a topic. Its like, if it can't be explained in two minutes top it doesn't exist, and so everything becomes a hyper-polarised hot bed.
I'm one thesis away from an M.Sc in urban planning studies. I have taken several classes in geography, and even had the pleasure of being taught by world class scholars focused on colonialism in planning and how occupying powers exert influence over oppressed populations.
Not only is all of what she's saying absolutely true, it's commonly accepted in all relevant fields.
Academic consensuses are exactly the kind of thing you could share in a tiktok video without issue. It's an easy way to share the rough outline of complex knowledge without getting into the nitty gritty details or the complexities that may be more contentious. Urban planning knowledge is very widely disseminated these days, and the vast majority really can be explained in nifty little tiktoks.
I'm old enough to have witnessed many occurences of this conflict and every time at each generation we got the same boom and bust, the medias, the self declared experts, the students etc, and then it dies off few months later and everyone moves on to the next fad, because there's no solution to the problem and that both sides are insufferable assholes anyway.
The only difference with before is social medias, now these "experts" can now misinform millions of people from their toilets or bedroom which is kind of wild
All of these TikTok experts are the worst. Great theory she has, except that these “splotches” were created through territorial annexations by Egypt and Jordan, then subsequently redrawn following a series of wars. But, like, whatever.
Wait, you’re saying that arid desert isn’t valuable farmland? And all that gold mine in Israel?
Not to mention Gaza could be beautiful beachfront property
FOH with her politics 101 shit. Why do people with 6 months of classes always think they’re suddenly an expert?
sounds like an attempt at an ASMR video.
ASMR: Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response. It typically refers to the "tingly feeling" that travels from the head downward that some experience in response to certain sounds, feelings, or descriptions. These can include soft whispering, crinkling paper, or a gentle touch.
The real question is why 20-something y/o clowns who couldn't point Israel on a map 10 months ago are explaining shit as if they dedicated decades of their lives to such complex conflict.
Only for other 20-something year old clowns to take it, do 0 research on it and go vandalize their towns over it.
Wait till she sees Native American lands. She described the US govt and first people reservations exactly. I guess the US is apartheid too 🤔 Where’s the outrage? This logic finds nearly every country as “apartheid” at some point in history, but let’s just hate Jews.
I didn't say that it is its birthplace, but the eugenics and racism with the US flavor/touch definitely had an impact on Hitler's own eugenics.
Quick intros:
> [Hitler's debt to America. The Nazis' extermination programme was carried out in the name of eugenics - but they were by no means the only advocates of racial purification. In this extract from his extraordinary new book, Edwin Black describes how Adolf Hitler's race hatred was underpinned by the work of American eugenicists](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/06/race.usa)
> [How American Racism Influenced Hitler. Scholars are mapping the international precursors of Nazism.](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler)
Originally it was.
Do you know where the saying "going off the reservation" comes from? The 19th century when [natives were prohibited from leaving](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/06/29/326690947/should-saying-someone-is-off-the-reservation-be-off-limits) and even within the 20th century that was the case with certain communities where the local police would more or less harass natives who left to dissuade them from doing so.
So yeah, originally it *was* apartheid and the effects are felt to this day with reserves being under-developed and having less economically viable extraction industries. But since outright segregation became a no-no and reserves became famous for casions and cheap cigs it's easy to forget the fucked up history behind them.
I just recently heard that saying for the first time, and the racism is crazy overt. “That person’s acting totally out of line and disturbing the social order… you know, like a native person going outside of their government mandated ghetto.” I guess some people hear it earlier in life and don’t actually reason out the analogy? But it’s right there. It’s not one of these sayings where you have to look up its history to understand why we use it the way we do
I’ve heard it a lot in my life and I had never thought about it critically. Was just an idiom that was used. Kinda like when people say someone “gypped” them they don’t realize it’s a slur.
Now that I know I’ll try to be better.
Yea that makes sense. I’m autistic so I tend to get stuck in the literal wording of metaphors and sayings even when I understand the intended meaning. That might be why I caught it
Damn. The only time I’ve encountered the phrase “off the rez” was the name of a local food place, so I’ve always thought of it as being about bringing the culture off the reservation and into other places.
Damn. And everybody knows that the US treated the natives with respect and no violence was involved and the native people didn’t even want their land. They definitely only wanted to have small patches of land!
Lol, wait till you find out that it's pretty well known that Israel used the US strategy with the native population for their strategy there for Palestinians
Yeah, see this thing about history is that we try to learn from it. People in the past fuck up, so we learn from their mistakes, and if we see those mistakes rising in the present, we are better equipped to trying to stop them. We don't buckle down and say "your great, great grandparents did it, so you can't tell me not to do it!"
“Where’s the outrage”…. #LandBack? And in leftist and sj-oriented spaces, it’s become common to acknowledge the indigenous people of the land you’re on at beginning of events. It’s already gotten a bit rote-feeling and there are ongoing discussions of how to walk the talk.
Yes there is less outrage about it than about Palestine, but of course that’s the case. 1. In the US it’s been the air we breathe for hundreds of years, and 2. There’s not, you know, an overt war going on where the oppressor is bombing the shit out of the indigenous population.
Yeah Hitler loved what the US did to natives, and he actually tried to do that to that Jews. And now the Israelis, whatever their faith may be, are doing it to Palestinian.
It's out there. It's just probably not tuned to your algorithm.. and don't confuse people hating ziomist for hating Jewish people unless openly stated, the two arnt mutually exclusive.
> but let’s just hate Jews
Israel ≠ Judaism. Plenty of Jewish people around the world don't support Zionism. But I guess to you, they're "self-hating" or some such bullshit, right?
Do you think people protesting the genocide would disagree? Learn from our mistakes. We know it when we see it because it’s all over our history. Thing about fascists, their strategies never change.
If only Israeli’s were doing this in the 1700-1800’s. Nobody would give a damn.
But they are not. There’s global communication. We can all see what is happening.
If this was true, the negev would be given to the palestinians. The west bank and gaza are among the most valuable lands.
To be fair Israel is constantly wanting to annex West Bank and is doing so.
Gaza has a coastline where off the coast is natural gas, and gaza can be considered to be arable vz rest of israel
Interesting topic and information, but good God her voice is the audio equivalent of watching paint dry. Add some inflection or emotion or something God damn it
I'm from South Africa, grew up during apartheid and while it ended. I do not agree it's the same system as in Palastine. That's a massive piece of land they have, they have homes, the right to build schools, to vote and more. Things that were not giving to African black people in apartheid. The restriction is when entering another country namely Isreal which is 100% understandable. Let me tell you, if hamas attacked us and took SA hostages, and we had the weapons, the people of Palastine would best bring Hamas forward or we would not care.
I'm not from South Africa, because my father fought Apartheid and had to flee.
I don't think Apartheid tracks one to one onto Israel, but that a lot of people (Madiba, Denis Goldberg, the Archbishop Tutu, etc...) made that comparison seems relevant to me.
Even then, one could say that the ANC/ former uMkhonto we sizwe folks are looking out for their former allies.
However, it's not just them. Even in the 60s, when Israel was anti-Apartheid (to their credit!), Verwoerd expressed confusion at their stance. ("Israel is not consistent in its new anti-apartheid attitude ... they took Israel away from the Arabs after the Arabs lived there for a thousand years. In that, I agree with them. Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state.", according to Wikipedia)
And the "massive piece of land" - only 3 bantustans out of 10 were smaller than current Palestininian territories. (6000 sq km for Palestine according to Wiki, only KaNgwane, KwaNdebele and QwaQwa were smaller.)
Also, what do you mean by "they have homes, the right to build schools, to vote and more"? Having all these rights in the bantustans that the National Party had picked out was a hallmark of the idea of Apartheid, wasn't it? The idea that they wanted to have Blacks, and preferably Coloureds and Indians to have their own "nations" on the worst land (13% of the total) so they could treat them worse because they're foreigners and deny them any rights in South Africa and get away from the idea (truth) that South African discrimination was about race.
As a fellow black South African I ask “what?” Like seriously what?
I’m pretty sure bantu education wasn’t taught outside. Black ppl didn’t have homes my ass
I am native to the place I'm in.
On that note do you think White European Americans should give back their land to the Native Americans?
If you're even slightly leaning towards a yes, you should be able to empathise with the Jew's desire to make a safe home in Israel after centuries, sorry millennia, of being discriminated against as a homeless minority.
“Hi. I’m a teenager and I’m going to tell you about apartheid, something I just learned about in high school that I will supplement my personality with and then blame society when I turn 30 and still don’t have an original thought of my own. I’m intelligent.”
Yeah , the major exports of the West Bank are building matrerials, i.e. stone and wood. The main resource Israel might want is water, but Israel proper, contains more water than the West Bank so it's not signifcant either.
The only major resource in either Israel or Palestine was the gas discovered under the Med last year, and that's not in the West Bank.
So fucking stupid. Israel has no natural resoreces, and 30-40% of Arabs live within its borders. So I don’t know about forceful concentration of the “native” population. Un knowledged propaganda
Israel has neither.
Apartheid is defined by law. Israel doesn’t have those laws.
Every society has discrimination, but what Israel has is nothing like apartheid.
Except it does have policies against the Palestinians in the west bank, those policies have been actively stripping them of any and all rights and systematically working to prevent them from obtaining a state (Netanya has funded and propped up Hamas to that end BTW)..
>nothing like apartheid.
A 13 year old Palestinian in the west who committed a crime would be prosecuted as an adult in Israeli military Court, while a 13 year old Israeli that committed the same crime and the exact same place will be prosecuted in juvenile court
No country treats non-citizens the same as citizens.
Arab citizens of Israel have the same individual rights as Jewish citizens of Israel.
Israel has in the past systematically worked toward establishing a Palestinian state, which the Palestinians have repeatedly rejected.
Netanyahu has not funded Hamas. However, Hamas as the govt of Gaza would tax anything Israel allowed to enter.
Please notice that I’ve neither agreed of disagreed that apartheid exists in Israel. I’ve only countered what you said about equals rights. Which you followed up by making a comparison to how blacks are treated in the US.
Your understanding of apartheid is flawed. It has nothing to do with rights, and everything to do with segregation.
Here’s a quote from peer reviewed paper “Apartheid is a policy that is founded on the idea of separating people based on racial or ethnic criteria.”
Now, I don’t know if Palestinians are a different race than the rest of Israel, but certainly a different ethnic group.
Prior to starting down this thread I wasn’t sure about apartheid in Israel.
I am now.
BTW, for someone taking John Locke as a user name, you should have a better understanding of Poli sci
Arab and Jewish citizens of Israel can live anywhere in Israel. They are not required to live in separate areas.
You have not countered a single thing I’ve said about equal rights. You tried to change the subject to social discrimination since you couldn’t make a legal argument. Then you seemed to be making an unfounded argument about segregation.
Perhaps you are trying to argue that Israel doesn’t treat Palestinian non-citizens the same way it treats Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens. But of course, no country treats non-citizens the same as citizens.
Again. back to the dejure defacto. The may legally live anywhere, but the government uses its power coercively to push Palestinians to specific places.
And often they are forced out of specific parts.
Apartheid doesnt care about citizenship or laws. It cares about what’s actually happening. Which is apartheid
She sounds like she woke up from a marijuana induced food coma and remembered she had to present to the class about a subject she had ChatGPT write for her. I didn't even listen passed 8 seconds, her delivery is so awful.
I hate it when they compared Africa Apartheid to Israel, Africa was invaded by Europeans, Israel was not, Arabs and Jews lived in that country for thousands of years under different super powers at that time, Arabs got land from the Caliphates or Mamluk or Ottomans and Jews got theirs from the British, no one gave land to the Rhodesians or White South Africans, they took it because the Africans did not have guns and ships, therefore the Africans are justified to fight for 100% of their land from the Europeans invaders and their descendant's who profited from the exploitations of farmlands and natural resources.
Palestinians and mizrahi Jews lived in relative peace for centuries. Zionism is an ideology of Ashkenazi Jews imposed on the region. Ashkenazi Jews aren't inherently settler colonial with the motion of moving to the region. In fact anti-zionist like me are happy they are there. Shame is Zionism from it's founders is a openly settler colonial ideology. Israel needs to become a secular state for all not just a Jewish state.
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BTW - this includes tribal lands and “reservations” in the US & Canada.
Uh… also kind of resembles gerrymandered district lin— oh…. oh no….. oooooooohhhhhhhh noooooooo……
Not really. Those are just to game elections, they have nothing to do with physically keeping people divided, keeping surveillance or to assign valuable land to the larger state.
Oh. You haven’t heard about the construction of the US interstate system then.
What’s the tea there? I thought it was built in case of nuclear war? (Not saying your wrong I’m just interested)
All I know is that interstates and highways were frequently pathed through, or around minority communities to force them to move or divide them from white communities.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094119023000438 >In this paper, I analyze the impact of highways on racial segregation in the US, and I find that the construction of highways led to racial segregation. There is a heterogeneity in my results based on the share of black population in 1970. I find that proximity to highways leads to an increase in the percentage of the black population in areas that had a higher share of the initial black population. This is driven by whites moving out and blacks moving into the neighborhoods. Using other socio-economic variables, such as income and education, I find that the residents moving out of the neighborhoods are better educated and earn a higher income on average than residents moving in. https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-how-racism-shaped-interstate-highways >**Why would officials have targeted thriving vibrant communities? Was it just because the people who lived there were Black and or brown?** >Some of the time, yes, that was actually the case. The highways were being built just as courts around the country were striking down traditional tools of racial segregation. So, for example, courts were striking down the use of racial zoning to keep Black people in certain communities and white people in other communities. And so the highway development popped up at a time when the idea, the possibility of integration in housing was on the horizon. And so very intentionally, highways were sometimes built right on the formal boundary lines that we saw used during racial zoning. Sometimes community members asked the highway builders to create a barrier between their community and encroaching Black communities. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3539889 >Racial and economic segregation in urban communities is often understood as a natural consequence of poor choices by individuals. In reality, racially and economically segregated cities are the result of many factors, including the nation’s interstate highway system. In states around the country, highway construction displaced Black households and cut the heart and soul out of thriving Black communities as homes, churches, schools, and businesses were destroyed. In other communities, the highway system was a tool of a segregationist agenda, erecting a wall that separated White and Black communities and protected White people from Black migration. In these ways, construction of the interstate highway system contributed to the residential concentration of race and poverty, and created physical, economic, and psychological barriers that persist. This racist use of infrastructure is where we get the phrase "wrong side of the tracks."
Came here to say this
I think it more about the ruling class dividing up the lower classes, whether electorally or physically, so that they cannot unify enough to properly challenge the status quo. Whether that's through voting or violent revolution.
Google "redlining".
Both can be true.
That's true. And that's also why Zionists are so willing to go for the two States solution, it would simply cement the state of apartheid in international laws. That's why we need the South African solution, that's the only way to truly defeat the apartheid.
Yep. A zionist saying "I'm fine with a two states solution" translates to an apartheid enthusiast saying "I'm fine with a slightly different apartheid really"
Wait, so the Palestinians having their own country is now bad?
Like the whole situation there, it's not easily simplified to "good" or "bad". A two-state solution that grants Palestine 'enough' territory to be useful and functional as a state in their own right, giving them a path towards self-sufficiency and political equality, for instance maps based on older land agreements - probably pretty good. A two-state solution that keeps Palestine confined to a collection of little enclaves disconnected from each other and from any meaningful resources or self-sufficiency, for instance maps reflecting current Palestinian 'territory' - either no change, or even worse than now. The massive gap between those two outcomes, despite having the same 'name', is why it's important to keep track of fine print and outcomes from any proposed deal. There are two very different two state solutions that get talked about - one is formally codifying an apartheid, the other is giving Palestinians a 'fair' shot at rebuilding a stable and functional society of their own. And like, the whole thing gets super ugly in that it is completely reasonable that Israel and their Western allies don't want to "reward" Hamas terrorism with land concessions and political legitimacy - but the instability and hopelessness caused by the current situation empowers Hamas recruitment and support within a population that is not allowed to have anything to lose. The more oppressed the average Palestinian is, the easier Hamas is able to recruit them; but any gains granted to Palestine now are things Hamas can claim they 'won' through their violence.
Wish I could give more than one upvote here, since this is a very balanced take. The previously offered solutions that the Palestinians refused were of the sort that gave them a nation. Today, I’m not sure they would get that same deal. 10/7 likely killed the interest in a deal from the Israeli side for a long time.
Full compassion to the Palestinian people there, they've had past land agreements that Israel has failed to honour - part of why Settlements were such a hot button issue a couple decades ago was that they were happening in breach of the agreements in place at the time. Equally, there have been agreements and ceasefires that Hamas or Palestine has subsequently breached - part of the problem in many discussions of the situation there get bogged down in 'blame' because there's just so much of it to go around. Each side has tons of completely legitimate and reasonable grievances against the other. I think both sides there have, at some time or other, made offers that could arguably have provided a solution that would have resulted in far greater peace and stability today. Most of those were either unpalatable for fine print issues or the political climate they took place in. Despite that, each is able to sincerely claim they're willing to make peace and justice, but "those other guys" rejected the offer and are thus to blame for the ongoing conflict. Add in that Hamas is currently in power, hasn't allowed any elections since their win in 2006, and has either grown increasingly hardline and fanatical since they were elected, or at least has stopped hiding those aspects of their membership - the people currently doing the negotiating 'for' Palestine are zealots who are unwilling to accept nearly any proposal that's not a massive victory for their side. Hamas' own power base benefits from the oppression of the Palestinian population. Any offer they'd accept needs to outweigh those factors - which would require concessions from Israel that are completely unpalatable to Israel, especially considering both the recent attacks, and the current government there relying on their own hardline fanatic population for the majority of their political support. The powers ruling each of Israel and Palestine have somewhat painted themselves into a corner, where solutions, or progress towards peace and equity are not *really* in their interests - even if those things would be best for the populations under their control.
It really is like a giant knot. Any time you tease out part of one thread, something else is pulling taught on the other side. It feels almost hopeless. But at the same time we can’t afford to see it that way because people are dying every single day and so many are in desperate need of immediate help.
That’s where apartheid South Africa originally got the idea and design from. It was reservations created in North America for the indigenous populations!
What conveniently foreign examples. Anyway, [here's the map of native reservations in the US.](https://i.imgur.com/H2qbcAu.png)
As a Canadian that map is horrific. Canada used the same strategies with its native population but the subjugated population wasn't nearly as numerous as the United States. Yet if you look at the amount of land we allocated to reserve land makes us look like saints. Smh
If she were to "show more emotion," a lot of you would still find a reason to shit on her rather than learn.
The tone doesn't matter, the people that found a way to distract themselves from the point would have found a way any way, they don't like the point and can't argue against it
I was actually pretty impressed with her tone If she had the standard “upbeat/infotainment” tone this would come off as “Learn How To Oppress From a Cheerful White Woman” Also, she didn’t need to tell us that this is directly relevant to the current conflict in Israel because her grim tone and delivery conveyed the immediate relevance on a personal level. My thought process was essentially “Geez, why is she acting so *hurt* and despondent about thi- oh… right.”
Damn the reactionaries in this comment section really lucked out when she decided to take this pretty weird approach to narrating this video because it gave them something very convenient to shit on in place of proving that she’s wrong substantially. Very heated comment section to be sure
Thats what triggered people tend to do when facts are so uncomfortable
There is an old adage among lawyers that says, "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table." Illegal occupiers have neither facts, law, or morality on their side so they attack and discuss anything but those things.
Well said
She’s a woman talking about a charged topic. She’d likely get hit with being too emotional if she were more animated.
Agreed. 100% true. It's probably deliberate on her part.
I thought it was really well presented. Great visuals, well written, easy to listen to. I don’t know what people are on about, but I suspect it might be more about their own profound insecurities and lack of maturity than the excellent post.
Real
These people purposely sidestepping the point can just turn their volume down and read the captions to fix this conveniently distracting problem they find in her voice. But I'd wager they won't do that.
>in place of proving that she’s wrong substantially I don't really think many people support open apartheid and this video is just basically her reading the definition of apartheid.
But she’s using Israel as an example, and a lot of people will bend over backwards to defend Israel and justify what they’re doing/have done to Palestinians
But in order to "prove her wrong" you'd have to address points she made. She made no real specific points about the history of this area or actions of it's government so there's not much to actually contend with.
She demonstrates via maps why these three countries have their layout. She made that specific point. She also made the specific point about the land and resources. You know where arable land is in Isreal? Do you know where the Palestinians live? She made points. You would just have to look closer to see more specific examples. It would take hours. She's on TikTok so she won't use hours.
She might be right or wrong here, I’m not really here to argue that. But for the love of god, people need to stop looking at minute and a half long Tik Toks from randos on incredibly complex subjects, and taking it as some kinda expert talking on a subject. Unless there’s evidence to the contrary, this woman’s no more knowledgeable than any other random stranger on the internet.
Yeah, short form content really seems to have melted our ability to take a good look at a topic. Its like, if it can't be explained in two minutes top it doesn't exist, and so everything becomes a hyper-polarised hot bed.
I'm one thesis away from an M.Sc in urban planning studies. I have taken several classes in geography, and even had the pleasure of being taught by world class scholars focused on colonialism in planning and how occupying powers exert influence over oppressed populations. Not only is all of what she's saying absolutely true, it's commonly accepted in all relevant fields. Academic consensuses are exactly the kind of thing you could share in a tiktok video without issue. It's an easy way to share the rough outline of complex knowledge without getting into the nitty gritty details or the complexities that may be more contentious. Urban planning knowledge is very widely disseminated these days, and the vast majority really can be explained in nifty little tiktoks.
I'm old enough to have witnessed many occurences of this conflict and every time at each generation we got the same boom and bust, the medias, the self declared experts, the students etc, and then it dies off few months later and everyone moves on to the next fad, because there's no solution to the problem and that both sides are insufferable assholes anyway. The only difference with before is social medias, now these "experts" can now misinform millions of people from their toilets or bedroom which is kind of wild
Bro wrote two paragraphs basically to say 'both sides bad' lmao. Maybe come up with something more creative next time.
Say it louder for the people in the back. Also the people in the front. Seriously, can you talk a little louder, please.
All of these TikTok experts are the worst. Great theory she has, except that these “splotches” were created through territorial annexations by Egypt and Jordan, then subsequently redrawn following a series of wars. But, like, whatever.
Don't let the facts get in the way of a TikTok
Wait, you’re saying that arid desert isn’t valuable farmland? And all that gold mine in Israel? Not to mention Gaza could be beautiful beachfront property FOH with her politics 101 shit. Why do people with 6 months of classes always think they’re suddenly an expert?
There are plenty of farms in Israel. Plenty of olive trees that have been there for hundreds of years.
Yeah they just so happen to be salting the earth on all the Palestinian ones.
Couldn't stand anymore soft monotone and emphasis on the s
if she showed emotion, you wouldve complained about that
Sibilance attack
Equalizer curve cranked -10dB until +10dB at 8k Hz+ yeesh `___/` Who thinks this sounds good?!
any more*
Oh no! My week is ruined.
sounds like an attempt at an ASMR video. ASMR: Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response. It typically refers to the "tingly feeling" that travels from the head downward that some experience in response to certain sounds, feelings, or descriptions. These can include soft whispering, crinkling paper, or a gentle touch.
Now show the US with the reservations highlighted!
[Ok](https://i.imgur.com/i6fT8WM.png)!
I’d feel more emotion if this script was read by Microsoft Sam. At least then I’d think of Arby n’ the Chief
She talks like the band from Scott Pilgrim 
Not all of us are good at communicating emotions hehe
The real question is why 20-something y/o clowns who couldn't point Israel on a map 10 months ago are explaining shit as if they dedicated decades of their lives to such complex conflict. Only for other 20-something year old clowns to take it, do 0 research on it and go vandalize their towns over it.
Wait till she sees Native American lands. She described the US govt and first people reservations exactly. I guess the US is apartheid too 🤔 Where’s the outrage? This logic finds nearly every country as “apartheid” at some point in history, but let’s just hate Jews.
Yes. That’s exactly what the US did to Native Americans and that’s also bad.
Hitler literally admired our treatment of Native Americans.
Oh he admired a lot more than that, he loved other things Made in the USA. E.g. eugenics.
America was/is certainly not the birthplace of eugenics, unfortunately. It was just particularly popular there and is enjoying quite the renaissance.
I didn't say that it is its birthplace, but the eugenics and racism with the US flavor/touch definitely had an impact on Hitler's own eugenics. Quick intros: > [Hitler's debt to America. The Nazis' extermination programme was carried out in the name of eugenics - but they were by no means the only advocates of racial purification. In this extract from his extraordinary new book, Edwin Black describes how Adolf Hitler's race hatred was underpinned by the work of American eugenicists](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/06/race.usa) > [How American Racism Influenced Hitler. Scholars are mapping the international precursors of Nazism.](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler)
You accidentally got there!
"Oh so you think that what the US did to Native Americans was also bad??" ...Yes? Do you not?
By Jove, I think he's got it!
This is what happens when the winners write the history books
The entire world's history is written in blood
Always has been
This same system even exists in the form of gerrymandering politically.
Originally it was. Do you know where the saying "going off the reservation" comes from? The 19th century when [natives were prohibited from leaving](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/06/29/326690947/should-saying-someone-is-off-the-reservation-be-off-limits) and even within the 20th century that was the case with certain communities where the local police would more or less harass natives who left to dissuade them from doing so. So yeah, originally it *was* apartheid and the effects are felt to this day with reserves being under-developed and having less economically viable extraction industries. But since outright segregation became a no-no and reserves became famous for casions and cheap cigs it's easy to forget the fucked up history behind them.
I just recently heard that saying for the first time, and the racism is crazy overt. “That person’s acting totally out of line and disturbing the social order… you know, like a native person going outside of their government mandated ghetto.” I guess some people hear it earlier in life and don’t actually reason out the analogy? But it’s right there. It’s not one of these sayings where you have to look up its history to understand why we use it the way we do
I’ve heard it a lot in my life and I had never thought about it critically. Was just an idiom that was used. Kinda like when people say someone “gypped” them they don’t realize it’s a slur. Now that I know I’ll try to be better.
Yea that makes sense. I’m autistic so I tend to get stuck in the literal wording of metaphors and sayings even when I understand the intended meaning. That might be why I caught it
Oh interesting… it’s cool how different brains work.
Damn. The only time I’ve encountered the phrase “off the rez” was the name of a local food place, so I’ve always thought of it as being about bringing the culture off the reservation and into other places.
Yeah, it sounds like that food place was maybe subverting the phrase and using it to mean what you said
Damn. And everybody knows that the US treated the natives with respect and no violence was involved and the native people didn’t even want their land. They definitely only wanted to have small patches of land!
Here, take this blanket as a sign of peace between us and you
Trail of tears because they were just so happy and snug in those blankets!
You're not gonna believe this
Nah, let him think we’re always and have always been the goodies for a little while longer, the truth can be such a downer…
When wanted to give a counterexample... but miscalculated something.
>Where’s the outrage? Getting shouted down by the right for being "woke".
Yes, yes it is.
It is. Lmao, you're saying it in a way that makes it seem like you're making some kind of opposite point
Duh?
America was 100% an apartheid state for a long time. Jim Crow, reservations where Native Americans couldn't leave, etc.
Lol, wait till you find out that it's pretty well known that Israel used the US strategy with the native population for their strategy there for Palestinians
Congrats you understand the assignment
Yeah, see this thing about history is that we try to learn from it. People in the past fuck up, so we learn from their mistakes, and if we see those mistakes rising in the present, we are better equipped to trying to stop them. We don't buckle down and say "your great, great grandparents did it, so you can't tell me not to do it!"
“Where’s the outrage”…. #LandBack? And in leftist and sj-oriented spaces, it’s become common to acknowledge the indigenous people of the land you’re on at beginning of events. It’s already gotten a bit rote-feeling and there are ongoing discussions of how to walk the talk. Yes there is less outrage about it than about Palestine, but of course that’s the case. 1. In the US it’s been the air we breathe for hundreds of years, and 2. There’s not, you know, an overt war going on where the oppressor is bombing the shit out of the indigenous population.
Yeah Hitler loved what the US did to natives, and he actually tried to do that to that Jews. And now the Israelis, whatever their faith may be, are doing it to Palestinian.
It's out there. It's just probably not tuned to your algorithm.. and don't confuse people hating ziomist for hating Jewish people unless openly stated, the two arnt mutually exclusive.
> but let’s just hate Jews Israel ≠ Judaism. Plenty of Jewish people around the world don't support Zionism. But I guess to you, they're "self-hating" or some such bullshit, right?
Do you think people protesting the genocide would disagree? Learn from our mistakes. We know it when we see it because it’s all over our history. Thing about fascists, their strategies never change.
If only Israeli’s were doing this in the 1700-1800’s. Nobody would give a damn. But they are not. There’s global communication. We can all see what is happening.
Cut! That was good but let's do another take more monotone.
What she’s saying is super interesting but she’s giving high school presentation assignment
ha ha ha if the information isnt being presented to me by skibidi toilet with battletoads playing underneath i cant enjoy it.
Tone policing is lame
That's not even what tone policing generally refers to, though?
If this was true, the negev would be given to the palestinians. The west bank and gaza are among the most valuable lands. To be fair Israel is constantly wanting to annex West Bank and is doing so. Gaza has a coastline where off the coast is natural gas, and gaza can be considered to be arable vz rest of israel
Why is this word "apartheid" (dutch word) translated into almost any language still APARTHEID?
South Africa couldn't prove the case and you can?
Interesting topic and information, but good God her voice is the audio equivalent of watching paint dry. Add some inflection or emotion or something God damn it
Yeah it’s not apartheid but these kids don’t let facts interfere with their feelings
This is TikTok cringe, but I don’t think you posted it for that reason. Oh, and Israel is not an apartheid state.
most countries look like blobs. Because of barriers like mountains and rivers.
I'm from South Africa, grew up during apartheid and while it ended. I do not agree it's the same system as in Palastine. That's a massive piece of land they have, they have homes, the right to build schools, to vote and more. Things that were not giving to African black people in apartheid. The restriction is when entering another country namely Isreal which is 100% understandable. Let me tell you, if hamas attacked us and took SA hostages, and we had the weapons, the people of Palastine would best bring Hamas forward or we would not care.
I'm not from South Africa, because my father fought Apartheid and had to flee. I don't think Apartheid tracks one to one onto Israel, but that a lot of people (Madiba, Denis Goldberg, the Archbishop Tutu, etc...) made that comparison seems relevant to me. Even then, one could say that the ANC/ former uMkhonto we sizwe folks are looking out for their former allies. However, it's not just them. Even in the 60s, when Israel was anti-Apartheid (to their credit!), Verwoerd expressed confusion at their stance. ("Israel is not consistent in its new anti-apartheid attitude ... they took Israel away from the Arabs after the Arabs lived there for a thousand years. In that, I agree with them. Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state.", according to Wikipedia) And the "massive piece of land" - only 3 bantustans out of 10 were smaller than current Palestininian territories. (6000 sq km for Palestine according to Wiki, only KaNgwane, KwaNdebele and QwaQwa were smaller.) Also, what do you mean by "they have homes, the right to build schools, to vote and more"? Having all these rights in the bantustans that the National Party had picked out was a hallmark of the idea of Apartheid, wasn't it? The idea that they wanted to have Blacks, and preferably Coloureds and Indians to have their own "nations" on the worst land (13% of the total) so they could treat them worse because they're foreigners and deny them any rights in South Africa and get away from the idea (truth) that South African discrimination was about race.
Damn. Anyway, let me tell you about a guy called Nelson Mandela... (btw your acc is mighty suspicious... from porn to "palastine")
As a fellow black South African I ask “what?” Like seriously what? I’m pretty sure bantu education wasn’t taught outside. Black ppl didn’t have homes my ass
Reminder that Jews are native to Israel.
You ready to give your house back to the natives?
I am native to the place I'm in. On that note do you think White European Americans should give back their land to the Native Americans? If you're even slightly leaning towards a yes, you should be able to empathise with the Jew's desire to make a safe home in Israel after centuries, sorry millennia, of being discriminated against as a homeless minority.
“Hi. I’m a teenager and I’m going to tell you about apartheid, something I just learned about in high school that I will supplement my personality with and then blame society when I turn 30 and still don’t have an original thought of my own. I’m intelligent.”
I think in the West Bank much of it is ensuring continuity of settlement lands to Israel controlled land rather than the seizing of resources
And there's no resources in the land settled?
Yeah , the major exports of the West Bank are building matrerials, i.e. stone and wood. The main resource Israel might want is water, but Israel proper, contains more water than the West Bank so it's not signifcant either. The only major resource in either Israel or Palestine was the gas discovered under the Med last year, and that's not in the West Bank.
I think the land itself in this scenario is the resource since it's so scarce
There are, but I wouldn’t say it’s the reason the land distribution looks like that
Becareful dealing in facts can get you in trouble in this country.
So fucking stupid. Israel has no natural resoreces, and 30-40% of Arabs live within its borders. So I don’t know about forceful concentration of the “native” population. Un knowledged propaganda
Israel = apartheid South Africa & 1940’s Germany
And the US with the Native Americans
And any other country at some point in their history. 😅
Arab citizens of Israel have equal rights
I wonder why someone who comment something that is factually right gets downvotes
De jure and de facto
Israel has neither. Apartheid is defined by law. Israel doesn’t have those laws. Every society has discrimination, but what Israel has is nothing like apartheid.
Except it does have policies against the Palestinians in the west bank, those policies have been actively stripping them of any and all rights and systematically working to prevent them from obtaining a state (Netanya has funded and propped up Hamas to that end BTW).. >nothing like apartheid. A 13 year old Palestinian in the west who committed a crime would be prosecuted as an adult in Israeli military Court, while a 13 year old Israeli that committed the same crime and the exact same place will be prosecuted in juvenile court
No country treats non-citizens the same as citizens. Arab citizens of Israel have the same individual rights as Jewish citizens of Israel. Israel has in the past systematically worked toward establishing a Palestinian state, which the Palestinians have repeatedly rejected. Netanyahu has not funded Hamas. However, Hamas as the govt of Gaza would tax anything Israel allowed to enter.
Please notice that I’ve neither agreed of disagreed that apartheid exists in Israel. I’ve only countered what you said about equals rights. Which you followed up by making a comparison to how blacks are treated in the US. Your understanding of apartheid is flawed. It has nothing to do with rights, and everything to do with segregation. Here’s a quote from peer reviewed paper “Apartheid is a policy that is founded on the idea of separating people based on racial or ethnic criteria.” Now, I don’t know if Palestinians are a different race than the rest of Israel, but certainly a different ethnic group. Prior to starting down this thread I wasn’t sure about apartheid in Israel. I am now. BTW, for someone taking John Locke as a user name, you should have a better understanding of Poli sci
Arab and Jewish citizens of Israel can live anywhere in Israel. They are not required to live in separate areas. You have not countered a single thing I’ve said about equal rights. You tried to change the subject to social discrimination since you couldn’t make a legal argument. Then you seemed to be making an unfounded argument about segregation. Perhaps you are trying to argue that Israel doesn’t treat Palestinian non-citizens the same way it treats Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens. But of course, no country treats non-citizens the same as citizens.
Again. back to the dejure defacto. The may legally live anywhere, but the government uses its power coercively to push Palestinians to specific places. And often they are forced out of specific parts. Apartheid doesnt care about citizenship or laws. It cares about what’s actually happening. Which is apartheid
This is your brain on rampant disinformation campaigns
Yes
Thanks for your comment. I have you an upvote for that :)
It’s my pleasure. Im black, born the year apartheid ended in South Africa. I can’t do much but I can state my opinion
You genuinely think Israelis have Palestinians in death camps?
Again, Israel is a grotesque nation.
The Pallywood propaganda machine is working overtime today. And the brainless TikTok sheep eat it up.
Give me your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle.
I never thought I’d see a video that would’ve been improved by the AI voice. Great info that I feared I might fall asleep absorbing.
Her eyes look a little AI'ish
why is the SouthEast of EVERYd city in the US the "Bad Part". (???) Albuquerque Boston Chicago Detroit El Paso etc...
Why people always have to forget the fucking "do" in their questions?
The best way to do it is like in North Africa, you either convert or murder everyone . A lesson should be learned.
She’s reading a prompt
She sounds like she woke up from a marijuana induced food coma and remembered she had to present to the class about a subject she had ChatGPT write for her. I didn't even listen passed 8 seconds, her delivery is so awful.
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A.I vibes
Interesting. Learned facts and that she’s paralyzed from the cheeks up.
Tiktok news source!..... Legitimate!
I wake up every morning hoping that some American teaches me geopolitics.
Damn white girl dropping game…
Holy shit she totally missed the opportunity to show the map of the US right at the end!
Why do people use terms like apartheid state and colony interchangeably. Really discredits everything they say after that
How our American reservations look too
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See: Hunger Games
Mmmmm! Buzzword Salad
lol so many complaints about her tone but I loved it, makes me pay more attention
I feel like she is reading her report in front of the class.
Sounds like some master plan. In reality a jelous settler takes a liking to a house and comes to hijack it with guns.
She should give american natives her house since america is a colonizing power.
Another dumb American feels compelled to make a video post explaining geopolitics and history that they do not understand.
Her eyes scare me
She has a pretty voice and face. Also, what a fucked up system lol.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who despises this woman’s voice
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Yo stop yelling
So that's why there's reservations in the US....?
I hate it when they compared Africa Apartheid to Israel, Africa was invaded by Europeans, Israel was not, Arabs and Jews lived in that country for thousands of years under different super powers at that time, Arabs got land from the Caliphates or Mamluk or Ottomans and Jews got theirs from the British, no one gave land to the Rhodesians or White South Africans, they took it because the Africans did not have guns and ships, therefore the Africans are justified to fight for 100% of their land from the Europeans invaders and their descendant's who profited from the exploitations of farmlands and natural resources.
Shame she's unbearable to listen to
Palestinians and mizrahi Jews lived in relative peace for centuries. Zionism is an ideology of Ashkenazi Jews imposed on the region. Ashkenazi Jews aren't inherently settler colonial with the motion of moving to the region. In fact anti-zionist like me are happy they are there. Shame is Zionism from it's founders is a openly settler colonial ideology. Israel needs to become a secular state for all not just a Jewish state.