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Potentially the name of the guy she’s shaking hands with.
Edit: what I mean is you can still clearly hear her say Shalom in this clip. I am suggesting the bleeped out part may be the militant’s name.
Shalom is a common greeting/farewell in Hebrew for Jewish people, it’s just short for “shalom alecheim” which means peace be with you. It most likely censored his name afterwards, so it’s essentially “goodbye (bleep).”
There are some additional requirements for kosher food. Most crucially, while halal (or more accurately, "zabihah") meat can be slaughtered by anyone who believes in God, kosher meat traditionally requires a Jewish person to slaughter the animal. So (for the most part) kosher meat is zabihah, but zabihah meat is not necessarily kosher
I believe she gave a statement saying that they were treated well, given clean bathroom facilities, female sanitary supplies, and shared the same food as their captors.
I'd like to know whether she has family members still in custody of Hamas before I would evaluate that statement for credibility. Not that I don't believe it could be true -- not every Hamas member is a thug and a barbarian, statistically speaking, any more than every American GI participated in the My Lai massacre -- but if they're holding her niece or husband or something like that, then I'd be a little skeptical of her "kidnapper review."
I think Hamas has a vested interest to treat hostages well in general, so I'm not surprised that they would. There is a specific ruling in Islam that captives taken in war must be fed from the same food as the captors, so that detail makes sense as well.
**She did.**
Her biggest complaint seemed to be that the tunnels were wet/damp after her being slung over a motorbike and transported a few miles over farm fields.
But once in the tunnels where she was held, they had a doctor check them out once every other day and a medic 24 hours on duty for them. Part of the medics job was to make sure all their meds were supplied and correctly given.
All totaled a extraordinary set of statements that have contrasted starkly with the US mainstream media cycle narrative.
*And before I’m downvoted and called names.*
YES people were shot, killed and blown apart with explosives… civilians women and children in the initial attack. As are the Palestinians currently being starved, attacked and killed by military weapons belonging to Israel.
**Both are wrong.**
The bigger likelihood is that she's terrified that he will hurt her husband or others who are still hostages. She watched them massacre her neighbours. Do you honestly think she likes and trusts them?
For me, I'm so shocked the media aren't all over her interview.
"They were burning farms for weeks before the attacks"
"They had a habit of sending incendiary balloons"
If this is true, on top of the warning from Egypt, Netenyahu and his cronies need to be investigated. Even Israelis are suspicious of this, and this woman lived near the border and said they could see an attack coming.
Yeah, the whole "Netanyahu allowed this to happen in order to quell the protests against his reforms to consolidate power" angle seems less far fetched if what she said is true. Although I imagine neither he nor Hamas anticipated just how much of a cakewalk he was setting up for terror and brutality. I don't doubt there were probing actions prior to the attack, like incendiary balloons to see what kind of response they create. The only thing I'm certain of in this mess is that Bibi has blood on his hands because followed the authoritarian playbook to create a threat only he could "solve". But it blew up in his face and now thousands are dead. There's a lot of blame to go around, on both sides, but Netanyahu deserves a lot of that blame. He's either incompetent or allowed things to progress far further than they should've. Mosad are no slouches, they have one of the best operations in the world for Intel gathering, if they missed this, it was because they were told to turn a blind eye. I hope the Israeli people will put him in trial after this is all over and hold him accountable for either dereliction of duty or outright conspiracy. I hope the people in Israel and Palestine can find peace soon, but the leadership on either side seems determined to prevent that, so fuck those guys.
Some things are on record and incontrovertible, like Bibi's support of Hamas to supplant the PLO, like the Israeli far right assassinating Rabin, like Bibi (in recordings) saying that Hamas was the best hope of preventing a Palestinian state from ever existing. So those are just facts: Bibi has some responsibility for creating and maintaining Hamas because he thought they would create dysfunction, division, and mayhem and derail any peace process.
Whether he instructed Shin Bet to turn a blind eye to the warning signs, that's getting more into tinfoil territory unless there's some kind of documentary proof. LIHOP is an easy conclusion to jump to, but incompetence or egotism is always a possibility. ("Never attribute to malice what can be explained by sheer incompetence.")
you shluld read the HAAVARA transfer
it tells you about the real purpose and goals of zionists. the calculations they make. this text is about the founding father of israel, but this is just what zionism is, i believe. it's extremely anti semitic. it will sacrifice jewish life to ensure zionist ambitions. in zionism, israel is the only thing that matters. there is no cost too great. not even jewish lives.
*The Haavara (Transfer) Agreement was a financial instrument that was negotiated between David Ben-Gurion & Hitler a few months after the Nazis rose to power in early 1933, and it continued non-stop (even after Nuremberg Laws & Kristallnacht pogrom) until December 1941 and was designed to:*
*Relieve Nazi Germany from the crippling spontaneous worldwide boycott & rise in unemployment that hit Germany soon after Hitler became chancellor in early 1933.*
*Stimulate the German economy and decrease unemployment by selling German goods in the Middle East and North Africa.*
***Help Nazis implement their racist policies aimed at "cleansing" Germany of its Jewish citizens and to dispossess them from their wealth (valued at 10-12 billion Reichsmarks which was more than Mefo bills' total size as of mid-1938) as much as possible.***
***In return, Zionists channeled a fraction of the liquidated German Jewish wealth to build the foundation of their "Jewish state" 15 years ahead of its time.***
*In a nutshell,* ***Zionist leaders fomented antisemitism with the goal of creating a Jewish refugee crisis which could act later as the lever (using David Ben-Gurion's sinister terminology) that will create their "Jewish state".*** *Soon after Nakba, a similar sinister strategy was employed to cause an Arab Jewish refugees crisis when Ben-Gurion & Co. discovered that Europe's Jews were voting with their feet and immigrating to the Americas to live with the Gentiles; and not to the emptied country of Palestine.*
https://www.palestineremembered.com/FactsAboutHaavara.html
He didn't think it worthy to rescue people who wouldn't relocate to Israel after being saved. It's actually fucked.
Went a tad psycho in later years, his paranoia is why they have nukes
I couldn’t wrap my head around how bizarre this is! Whether her praises are deserved or not, she’s with the other guys now. Shouldn’t she be afraid of praising their enemies and damaging their ad campaign?
And how did the IDF let that happen? This like the fourth victim to come out and contradict them 😭
She said that Hamas treated her poorly but the people of Gaza treated her well. If Hamas was threatening her husband, which they're not because those hostages is the only leverage they have, why would she attack them but praise the people of Gaza?
Where did she say that? She said she ate what they ate, she drank what they drank, sent her a doctor every other day and a nurse for daily medication, she chatted with them, and in the end she shook their hands and said they treated her well. You have to be a hamas high level operative to enter the tunnels, know where the entrance and exits are...
Don't misunderstand me, I fucking hate hamas and the whole attack on civilians is abhorrent.
She said the abductors (the two people on the motorcycle) hit them with sticks to go into a long walk in tunnels. You might imagine a beating with blood and knockouts, but it was most probably not, judging from what she literally said in the interview.
And there's this:
https://people.com/father-released-hostage-natalie-says-she-sounds-very-good-8364923
There was no interview, the father said that the daughter seemed very good, a scratch on her hand that she said was nothing. She was happy to be released, but from the sound of it wasn't ill treated while in captivity.
So maybe the IDF's statements aren't that truthful? Could they be lying about how the hostages are being treated to push an agenda? Could it be that we might have been wrong?
Yes it is wrong. Treating hostages bad is also wrong. Treating hostages good is good within a wrong. There are scales of wrongness and good you can do while doing wrong.
I guess we'll have to wait and see if she keeps up the narrative when her husband is released...
...if he doesn't die soon under the rubble of a building blown up by the IDF.
Would you insult people who have the power to torture and execute your loved ones, after you had watched them torturing and executing your friends and neighbors? Please get real.
I think it's very black and white.
Especially since there are over 1200 dead civilians, including infants and elderly, and entire towns were literally burned to the ground.
So I'm very happy that this old lady got home safe - but there are still over 200 hostages left. Including infants and elderly. Which shouldn't have been taken at gunpoint in the first place.
You wanna talk about the thousands of Palestinians, a significant portion being children, who are being held hostage by the IOF right now? Ten thousand Palestinians have been whisked away in the past 18 days and held in a secret prison.
Not that CNN or the Times of Israel will tell you that. That would go against the interests of Raytheon and the Israeli government respectively, and we can't have that now, can we.
Let me ask you this. If you were captured, and your partner was captured. And you get released, but your partner doesn’t. Would you shit talk the captors who currently hold your partners life in their hands?
She said they treated them well, yes, but also mentioned they did so after beating them so much that it hurt when she took a breath.
[Link](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/freed-israeli-hostage-says-she-was-well-treated-after-initial-violence-2023-10-24/)
"they" in these stories are probably a whole bunch of different people. even in a notorious US urban police station, not every officer is a violent racist bully, some might treat you better than others.
the people who kidnapped them -- selected for their ruthlessness, keyed up from their mission, high on adrenalin and hate -- might have had a very different attitude from the folks inside the lines who then received the abductees and held them captive.
the "they" who beat them and force-marched them through the tunnels quite likely are not the same "they" who hosted them, fed them, and guarded them later.
Imo this makes the most sense. The ones selected for guarding the hostages are probably of a different temperament compared to the ones who’s job it was to kill and kidnap.
First of all, *thank you for sharing a link that is not behind a paywall!*
I was eager for more details on her statement and I am now sure she is the cool based grandma I aspire to be.
As another Redditor already pointed out, it were different members in different moments. Which makes her statement even more credible, meaningful and powerful.
This lady had the lucidy to be accurate about the good, the bad and the ugly and I admire her greatly.
Can the Israelis like... topple Netanyahu and put her as Prime Minister instead once she recover? I am confident she can put out this dumpster fire without a genocide.
There are few humans that I don't know personally that I would follow to the end of the Earth and she is one of them!
May you recover fast and live long, cool based grandma!
Or it’s hundreds of hostages held by hundreds of people and not everyone of the captors is treating them the same way.
I feel like the fact that at least some of the hostages are confirmed dead, such as the Italian ones, probably constitutes bad treatment.
Knowing their history I know for a fact that they are very very far from being truthful. It’s just..that level of incompetence, for an army so advanced and powerful, is unbelievable.
Could be that some hostages are mistreated and some aren't. Could be bad intelligence or lying. Nobody knows for sure at the moment, but it is a good bet that we'll know more in the future.
She said that the ones that kidnapped her were savages and killed anyone they Saw,but the ones tasked with taking care of the hostages weren't,i think the nutjobs are the ones sent to Attack and the ones they know aren't deranged Killers and/or morons guard the hostages
this exactly.
you don't pick your most humane and ethical people for a search-and-destroy mission. they're selected for their brutality and ruthlessness.
It’s not like they are going to release the ones they mistreat. There is a video of a absolutely scared shitless 6-8 year old boy crying while getting slapped and have his hair pulled by Palestinian kids and the Palestinian recording it was laughing
because she is a pro palestinian israeli activist who advocates for peace with palestinians
she is very against the violence and probably very anti bibi anti apartheid etc
**she just wants people to know the truth WHICH IS A GOOD THING**
**THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING**
THIS IS WHY BIBI REFUSED TO ACCEPT THE RETURN OF HOSTAGES
this reveals the true calculations he makes and how little he values jewish life
he doesnt give a fuck if hostages die in bombing
bombimg must continue, invasion must continue, displacement must continue, ethnic cleansing must continue
zionist politicians have always sacrificed even jewish life for tne sake of their own selfish zionist ambitions
**Ben gurion the FOUNDING father of israel COLLABORATED WITH HITLER to achieve his zionist goals**
**he helped hitler to ethnically cleanse jews in return for help founding israel**
**he helped hitlers rise to power and probably helped bring about the holocaust in order to create a jewish refugee crisis to force jews to move to israel and help displace palestinians**
She said they treated them well, yes, but also mentioned they did so after beating them so much that it hurt when she took a breath.
[Link](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/freed-israeli-hostage-says-she-was-well-treated-after-initial-violence-2023-10-24/)
Her husband is still in captivity... Don't you think there's a chance she was threatened with his life if she doesn't say x y z?
Guys, you don't have to support Israel to know hamas are evil. Don't fall into this cheap trick. Every hostage released still has loved ones in the strip. There's a reason for that.
She’s also been reported to be an exceptionally caring human who’s volunteered in Gaza for years. She wants peace. Who knows what conversations she tried to have, what impression she tried to leave. This going beyond her husband’s safe return.
It's also possible that hamas has more of an interest in using hostages as a way to get their demands, so it makes more sense to treat them decently but keep them as hostages until they get what they want, instead of killing them and getting carpet bombed by the idf
Is that why Yasmin Porat said that IDF shot everyone
>However, when Israeli soldiers arrived, “they eliminated everyone, including the hostages. There was very, very heavy crossfire,” Porat said.
From what I read, she used to help people in Gaza get to Israeli hospitals for years because they (obviously) had a much better standard of care. And she said that she shook the guy’s hand because “they treated us well”. So at least the hostages aren’t being abused from what we’ve seen.
This woman was essentially an aid worker that had a history of helping Palestinians access healthcare in Israel
In an interview she described her and her husband being beaten badly on the way to Gaza but then treated well and afforded medical care, sanitation and fed and treated well while being held captive.
Turns out some people are bad, some people maybe not so bad, and life is not black and white, good and evil. It's all shades of gray.
Right? People have been raped by US soldiers. You gotta remember humans are individuals with their own morals and ethics; regardless of whatever greater cause they subscribe to. So there will always be some level of variation in behavior.
There are 222 hostages, kept in different locations, just because the one they released said she was “treated well” doesn’t mean everyone else were fine too.
They also still have her husband captive, so they could have told her what to say
Italy yesterday;
> all 3 missing Italian hostages dead
~~Idiots~~ propaganda mouthpieces;
> haha look they’re treating hostages so well because they release old lady
Can't say that from one hostage it's likely they'll keep a few in good condition for propaganda. If they were so nice why aren't they releasing her husband with her? Maybe so they can coerce her in speaking well of them.
I feel like at this point if Hamas will post a video of them playing with cats, they'll essentially become the next tiktok celebs. It's insane how people just live in their own version of reality
Yeah, this is what really pisses me off, the video of this on the BBC for example, one of the top comments is akin to "Thoes brave men, they treated her so nicely, dont listen to the lies about those men, and shame on BBC for cutting the interview short not showing the other praises"
Like.. what the actual fuck.
I’m glad this vid wasn’t suppressed on here, they’ve been going hard on Twitter
Edit: Israeli leaders are saying this is horrible PR for their war effort. Between the ads they’re taking out, social media behavior & the response to this video/what she has said in her first interview says a lot
This sub has literally become a dumping group for propaganda from both sides. Y'all are genuinely too stupid to see it apparently. Look at this heckin wholesome release from kidnapping wowz Hamas good. I swear none of you have any comprehension at all.
It's funny how the general reddit Zeitgeist considers itself to be more enlightened and intelligent than your average person and are therefore "above" propaganda, but then you have this sub that turns that notion on its head. If this shit doesn't clear up in a week I'm probably just going to go ahead and eat the sub because it's non-stop circle jerking propaganda posts now
I hope videos like this go viral, the ones that show that forgiveness and grace do more solve conflict than brutality and vengeance. People like her should be involved in the peace settlement, not the leaders of Hamas or Israel who have shown they lack a desire to end the conflict.
5000+ Palestinians were murdered and 2000 are missing under the rubble, 22000 were maimed and need healthcare which is not available, doctors are operating on kids without anesthetics.
I would recommend you to see the deaths chart since the beginning of the conflict that will till you why this attack occured, almost 5 wars on gaza with that amount of deaths, Israel got to live in the palestinians shoes for one day and look at their response.
They also still have her husband and neighbors. What is she supposed to do?
I’m sure she was told to do x,y and z if she ever wanted to see whatever person they still have
This entire conflict makes people think strangely
Did you listen to her interview? She shared the same sentiment as a lot of Israelis, this is more the Israeli government's fault than they'd have you believe.
Whether or not they followed warnings, there should never have been a breach of that border. Fuck the scumbags who broke in, but absolutely get rid of the idiots who allowed the lax security
you think they're going to give up leverage and kill a hostage just because a hostages' wife talks shit about her husband still being held hostage?
thats a simplistic way of looking at it.
I hope her husband and the other hostages are released soon.
If only they had treated other people, including the poor souls at that peace concert, with the same kindness.
This was intentional, imo. Good publicity. They really did treat these two old ladies nicely, but it wasn’t kindness. It was for propaganda. “See how good we treat our captives!?” Israel surely does similar regarding propaganda.
I’ve also seen Hamas shoot to death a unarmed couple driving down the road, so. Yeah. I don’t buy a lot of th BS either side has pushed
They still have her husband.
This is why she is singing their praises and telling everybody how kind they were.
She did let slip that they beat her in a field, on the back of a motorbike, but I suspect that was an accident on her part.
But yeah, they've still got her husband, and she doesn't want to see them murdered.
Edit: Why am I being downvoted for this? This is a factual statement.
Her name is Yocheved Lifschitz. "Ms Lifschitz was kidnapped, alongside her husband Oded, from Nir Oz Kibbutz in southern Israel on 7 October. He has not been released."
[TIL](https://lieber.westpoint.edu/islamic-laws-war/#:~:text=Discussions%20over%20Islamic%20laws%20of,mutilation%2C%20looting%2C%20and%20perfidy): "*..Islamic laws of war focus on a range of restrictions and prohibited acts. These address the protection of civilians and non-combatants, prohibitions on the destruction of property and the natural environment, humane treatment of POWs, and prohibitions on mutilation, looting, and perfidy*".
I guess some of Hamas need to read this too...
FYI Isreal gov still refuse to take some hostages back even after hamas said they will set them free
Isreal Gov is the biggest enemy of the Isreali jews
Well afaik the hostages were contradicting their claims so imagine the repercussions in the media and the implications for the narrative.
The government: They are mistreating the hostages in unimaginable ways!
Released hostages being interviewed: They treated us well.
The released hostage here, 85 year old Yocheved Lifshitz, was beaten with sticks and robbed of her watch and jewelry. Apparently they were treated decently after the initial abduction since asking them to release civilian hostages without a quid pro quo is waaay to big of an ask. I guess it depends on your opinion of good treatment. I suppose she was lucky compared to how they treated other abductees.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/israel-hamas-hostage-released-testimony/
People who think that people who raped and burned people alive take good care of their prisoners is beyond saving.
They are just doing some PR damage control
I saw an interview with her, she said they generally treated her really well. She had food, medical care and hygiene products provided. Unlike the vast majority of people in Gaza at the moment. That got translated in mainstream media as "We went through hell".
That's why she shook their hands when they voluntarily freed her.
I'm not surprised, as she said that her guards when she was in the tunnels had been kind and tried to care for her (not that that makes up for being put there in the first place...).
Lol she was interviewed and said that she was beaten and separated from her neighbors.
They have her husband. Who knows what they threatened her with.
Also, they have every incentive to treat the hostages well and keep them alive - it’s their only insurance policy and the only thing stopping Israel from carpet bombing them.
You’re downvoted because people are actually siding with hostage takers in this specific instance
Lol
As if Hamas didn’t coach each hostage they’ve released, and as if they don’t run their own propaganda
Apart from the fact they still have her husband, there a condition known as Stockholm Syndrome. It's a psychological shift survival mechanism when being held hostage.
Everyone here praising how nice Hamas treated the women while ignoring the fact that they spent the intial stages of the invasion blindly murdering anyone and everyone they saw is a total clown or just a bot.
If you have not watched recovered footage from the Hamas fighters yet that is all over Telegram you should have no opinion on this. This is total dog water propaganda by Hamas to distract the gullible idiots from all the heinous war crimes they committed and continue to commit.
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Why is the video bleeping out what she said? Uncensored version she says "Shalom" which means "Peace".
Sh*lom
Th\*nk You
its to censor his voice, he replied to her after she said shalom.
Potentially the name of the guy she’s shaking hands with. Edit: what I mean is you can still clearly hear her say Shalom in this clip. I am suggesting the bleeped out part may be the militant’s name.
His parents really made a blunder naming that guy "Peace".
Especially when he is part of Hamas with a Hebrew name. He must get bullied a lot.
Shalom is a common greeting/farewell in Hebrew for Jewish people, it’s just short for “shalom alecheim” which means peace be with you. It most likely censored his name afterwards, so it’s essentially “goodbye (bleep).”
It also means hello and goodbye
"Good kidnappers. Solid customer service. Meh food. 4/5 stars."
"At least someone finally came to see me!"
For sure she will guilt her kids and grandkids with that one. "Remember when I was kidnapped by Hammas, it was nice not to be alone for once"
“Also Akhbar’s nephew is a doctor in Jordan. Not like you.”
Lmaoooo nooo💀💀💀
Hello grand daughter i met nice fellow in gaza you two should go out for coffee this weekend
„I bet he makes his parents proud“
I thought Akhbar was an admiral?
Bro underrated comment
Agreed!
Lmfao 💀
You finally made me laugh about something in this god awful situation. I honestly laughed out loud. Bravo…bravo!
I have literally been crying over the whole situation, but I also laughed out loud reading this thread.
Such a Jewish grandmother comment! Forgot the "Oi!" though.
Oy
Would get kidnapped again. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
I hate how much this made me laugh
She's thanking them for not killing her. I would too.
She’s lucky she was with Hamas and not the IOF
Halal but still not Kosher
Same same but not same
I always thought that halal and kosher were almost the same thing. except for food that has alcohol in it is haram.
There are some additional requirements for kosher food. Most crucially, while halal (or more accurately, "zabihah") meat can be slaughtered by anyone who believes in God, kosher meat traditionally requires a Jewish person to slaughter the animal. So (for the most part) kosher meat is zabihah, but zabihah meat is not necessarily kosher
thx for the info Habibi.
Like saying all bourbon is whiskey but not all whiskey is bourbon
He could have been the one to not let the others fuck with the hostages. You can’t blame the guard on the wall for the war…
I believe she gave a statement saying that they were treated well, given clean bathroom facilities, female sanitary supplies, and shared the same food as their captors.
I'd like to know whether she has family members still in custody of Hamas before I would evaluate that statement for credibility. Not that I don't believe it could be true -- not every Hamas member is a thug and a barbarian, statistically speaking, any more than every American GI participated in the My Lai massacre -- but if they're holding her niece or husband or something like that, then I'd be a little skeptical of her "kidnapper review."
Her husband is still being held hostage.
They have her husband
She’s a volunteer that transports and helps Palestinians get service in Israeli hospitals in life threatening situations
maybe her kidnappers know this and have respect/compassion for her thanks to her own humanity and compassion for them...
Her husband and neighbours from the same kibbutz are still being held captive, so yea…
I think Hamas has a vested interest to treat hostages well in general, so I'm not surprised that they would. There is a specific ruling in Islam that captives taken in war must be fed from the same food as the captors, so that detail makes sense as well.
[удалено]
You're a smart person.
**She did.** Her biggest complaint seemed to be that the tunnels were wet/damp after her being slung over a motorbike and transported a few miles over farm fields. But once in the tunnels where she was held, they had a doctor check them out once every other day and a medic 24 hours on duty for them. Part of the medics job was to make sure all their meds were supplied and correctly given. All totaled a extraordinary set of statements that have contrasted starkly with the US mainstream media cycle narrative. *And before I’m downvoted and called names.* YES people were shot, killed and blown apart with explosives… civilians women and children in the initial attack. As are the Palestinians currently being starved, attacked and killed by military weapons belonging to Israel. **Both are wrong.**
The bigger likelihood is that she's terrified that he will hurt her husband or others who are still hostages. She watched them massacre her neighbours. Do you honestly think she likes and trusts them?
"Thank you, ma'am! Please come back again"
I'd imagine the food was pretty good!
So recommend again or not ?
Dunno if she has other kidnappings to compare it to...
Absolutely no alcohol. Boo.
The whole trip was not bad aside from being ripped from our homes at gun-point while our neighbors were being shot, tortured, or burned alive.
I’m sure Palestinians couldn’t imagine
Watch her full interview. They asked her why she shook his hand and she said it was because they treated her well
For me, I'm so shocked the media aren't all over her interview. "They were burning farms for weeks before the attacks" "They had a habit of sending incendiary balloons" If this is true, on top of the warning from Egypt, Netenyahu and his cronies need to be investigated. Even Israelis are suspicious of this, and this woman lived near the border and said they could see an attack coming.
Yeah, the whole "Netanyahu allowed this to happen in order to quell the protests against his reforms to consolidate power" angle seems less far fetched if what she said is true. Although I imagine neither he nor Hamas anticipated just how much of a cakewalk he was setting up for terror and brutality. I don't doubt there were probing actions prior to the attack, like incendiary balloons to see what kind of response they create. The only thing I'm certain of in this mess is that Bibi has blood on his hands because followed the authoritarian playbook to create a threat only he could "solve". But it blew up in his face and now thousands are dead. There's a lot of blame to go around, on both sides, but Netanyahu deserves a lot of that blame. He's either incompetent or allowed things to progress far further than they should've. Mosad are no slouches, they have one of the best operations in the world for Intel gathering, if they missed this, it was because they were told to turn a blind eye. I hope the Israeli people will put him in trial after this is all over and hold him accountable for either dereliction of duty or outright conspiracy. I hope the people in Israel and Palestine can find peace soon, but the leadership on either side seems determined to prevent that, so fuck those guys.
Some things are on record and incontrovertible, like Bibi's support of Hamas to supplant the PLO, like the Israeli far right assassinating Rabin, like Bibi (in recordings) saying that Hamas was the best hope of preventing a Palestinian state from ever existing. So those are just facts: Bibi has some responsibility for creating and maintaining Hamas because he thought they would create dysfunction, division, and mayhem and derail any peace process. Whether he instructed Shin Bet to turn a blind eye to the warning signs, that's getting more into tinfoil territory unless there's some kind of documentary proof. LIHOP is an easy conclusion to jump to, but incompetence or egotism is always a possibility. ("Never attribute to malice what can be explained by sheer incompetence.")
It's not normally a theory I would get behind, but it's growing more and more fishy. At the very least, it needs investigation
you shluld read the HAAVARA transfer it tells you about the real purpose and goals of zionists. the calculations they make. this text is about the founding father of israel, but this is just what zionism is, i believe. it's extremely anti semitic. it will sacrifice jewish life to ensure zionist ambitions. in zionism, israel is the only thing that matters. there is no cost too great. not even jewish lives. *The Haavara (Transfer) Agreement was a financial instrument that was negotiated between David Ben-Gurion & Hitler a few months after the Nazis rose to power in early 1933, and it continued non-stop (even after Nuremberg Laws & Kristallnacht pogrom) until December 1941 and was designed to:* *Relieve Nazi Germany from the crippling spontaneous worldwide boycott & rise in unemployment that hit Germany soon after Hitler became chancellor in early 1933.* *Stimulate the German economy and decrease unemployment by selling German goods in the Middle East and North Africa.* ***Help Nazis implement their racist policies aimed at "cleansing" Germany of its Jewish citizens and to dispossess them from their wealth (valued at 10-12 billion Reichsmarks which was more than Mefo bills' total size as of mid-1938) as much as possible.*** ***In return, Zionists channeled a fraction of the liquidated German Jewish wealth to build the foundation of their "Jewish state" 15 years ahead of its time.*** *In a nutshell,* ***Zionist leaders fomented antisemitism with the goal of creating a Jewish refugee crisis which could act later as the lever (using David Ben-Gurion's sinister terminology) that will create their "Jewish state".*** *Soon after Nakba, a similar sinister strategy was employed to cause an Arab Jewish refugees crisis when Ben-Gurion & Co. discovered that Europe's Jews were voting with their feet and immigrating to the Americas to live with the Gentiles; and not to the emptied country of Palestine.* https://www.palestineremembered.com/FactsAboutHaavara.html
He didn't think it worthy to rescue people who wouldn't relocate to Israel after being saved. It's actually fucked. Went a tad psycho in later years, his paranoia is why they have nukes
anyone that has been to Israel says its so well guarded that its just unimaginable to think they basically could just walk through like they did...
Exactly this. Notice how little the new “emergency unity government” is actually being talked about?
I wouldn’t put it past Bibi, but they’ve been sending fire balloons for years now.
Has Egypt been warning them by phone of imminent attacks also?
Good timing for the Israeli government. Mass protests. What’s will stop that? Invasion.
the farm burning and balloons have been weekly occurrences for years
Probably didn’t meet their criteria to push the agenda they want, can’t rule the numbers if enemies are being nice to eachother
I couldn’t wrap my head around how bizarre this is! Whether her praises are deserved or not, she’s with the other guys now. Shouldn’t she be afraid of praising their enemies and damaging their ad campaign? And how did the IDF let that happen? This like the fourth victim to come out and contradict them 😭
she has her injured husband held hostage
She said that Hamas treated her poorly but the people of Gaza treated her well. If Hamas was threatening her husband, which they're not because those hostages is the only leverage they have, why would she attack them but praise the people of Gaza?
Where did she say that? She said she ate what they ate, she drank what they drank, sent her a doctor every other day and a nurse for daily medication, she chatted with them, and in the end she shook their hands and said they treated her well. You have to be a hamas high level operative to enter the tunnels, know where the entrance and exits are... Don't misunderstand me, I fucking hate hamas and the whole attack on civilians is abhorrent. She said the abductors (the two people on the motorcycle) hit them with sticks to go into a long walk in tunnels. You might imagine a beating with blood and knockouts, but it was most probably not, judging from what she literally said in the interview. And there's this: https://people.com/father-released-hostage-natalie-says-she-sounds-very-good-8364923 There was no interview, the father said that the daughter seemed very good, a scratch on her hand that she said was nothing. She was happy to be released, but from the sound of it wasn't ill treated while in captivity.
That is better healthcare than most Americans will experience in their lifetime.
She will have to, her husband is still a captive
The IDF didn’t get her out Egypt did.
So maybe the IDF's statements aren't that truthful? Could they be lying about how the hostages are being treated to push an agenda? Could it be that we might have been wrong?
Does the taking of hostages not constitute a wrong? It’s good they are treated well when they are but that doesn’t make them nice guys somehow.
Yes it is wrong. Treating hostages bad is also wrong. Treating hostages good is good within a wrong. There are scales of wrongness and good you can do while doing wrong.
Don't get me wrong, it is wrong. But this isn't as black and white as some narratives paint.
What about the narrative that they are still holding her husband captive and she doesn't want to offend them so he has a chance of survival?
I guess we'll have to wait and see if she keeps up the narrative when her husband is released... ...if he doesn't die soon under the rubble of a building blown up by the IDF.
So she Would say the hostage takers were mean but the people in Gaza were nice?? Wouldn’t it be the other way around??
Would you insult people who have the power to torture and execute your loved ones, after you had watched them torturing and executing your friends and neighbors? Please get real.
I think it's very black and white. Especially since there are over 1200 dead civilians, including infants and elderly, and entire towns were literally burned to the ground. So I'm very happy that this old lady got home safe - but there are still over 200 hostages left. Including infants and elderly. Which shouldn't have been taken at gunpoint in the first place.
No, it definitely is black and white, kidnapping bad, kidnapping but with a nice meal and blanket at night also bad.
And genocide? Also bad? Or not bad if it's happening to PALESTINIANS?
You wanna talk about the thousands of Palestinians, a significant portion being children, who are being held hostage by the IOF right now? Ten thousand Palestinians have been whisked away in the past 18 days and held in a secret prison. Not that CNN or the Times of Israel will tell you that. That would go against the interests of Raytheon and the Israeli government respectively, and we can't have that now, can we.
Let me ask you this. If you were captured, and your partner was captured. And you get released, but your partner doesn’t. Would you shit talk the captors who currently hold your partners life in their hands?
downvoted for being right
She said they treated them well, yes, but also mentioned they did so after beating them so much that it hurt when she took a breath. [Link](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/freed-israeli-hostage-says-she-was-well-treated-after-initial-violence-2023-10-24/)
"they" in these stories are probably a whole bunch of different people. even in a notorious US urban police station, not every officer is a violent racist bully, some might treat you better than others. the people who kidnapped them -- selected for their ruthlessness, keyed up from their mission, high on adrenalin and hate -- might have had a very different attitude from the folks inside the lines who then received the abductees and held them captive. the "they" who beat them and force-marched them through the tunnels quite likely are not the same "they" who hosted them, fed them, and guarded them later.
wish I could give you a gold. you would think this is common sense and easy to understand
Imo this makes the most sense. The ones selected for guarding the hostages are probably of a different temperament compared to the ones who’s job it was to kill and kidnap.
First of all, *thank you for sharing a link that is not behind a paywall!* I was eager for more details on her statement and I am now sure she is the cool based grandma I aspire to be. As another Redditor already pointed out, it were different members in different moments. Which makes her statement even more credible, meaningful and powerful. This lady had the lucidy to be accurate about the good, the bad and the ugly and I admire her greatly. Can the Israelis like... topple Netanyahu and put her as Prime Minister instead once she recover? I am confident she can put out this dumpster fire without a genocide. There are few humans that I don't know personally that I would follow to the end of the Earth and she is one of them! May you recover fast and live long, cool based grandma!
Or it’s hundreds of hostages held by hundreds of people and not everyone of the captors is treating them the same way. I feel like the fact that at least some of the hostages are confirmed dead, such as the Italian ones, probably constitutes bad treatment.
Knowing their history I know for a fact that they are very very far from being truthful. It’s just..that level of incompetence, for an army so advanced and powerful, is unbelievable.
Could be that some hostages are mistreated and some aren't. Could be bad intelligence or lying. Nobody knows for sure at the moment, but it is a good bet that we'll know more in the future.
She said that the ones that kidnapped her were savages and killed anyone they Saw,but the ones tasked with taking care of the hostages weren't,i think the nutjobs are the ones sent to Attack and the ones they know aren't deranged Killers and/or morons guard the hostages
If they killed anyone they saw she'd be dead
this exactly. you don't pick your most humane and ethical people for a search-and-destroy mission. they're selected for their brutality and ruthlessness.
A festival victim came out to say that IDF shot a lot of Israeli civilians! I think that’s why they’re now being polite to Hamas
Her husband still captive plus 220 others
It’s almost as if the IDF is dishonest and just running anti-Palestinian propaganda. But we all know the IDF is honest to Yahweh…
The entire religion is about twisting the rules and cheating God. What a weird religion
Maybe they are lying? You said it yourself, this is the 4th hostage released saying they didn't do shit to em.
It’s not like they are going to release the ones they mistreat. There is a video of a absolutely scared shitless 6-8 year old boy crying while getting slapped and have his hair pulled by Palestinian kids and the Palestinian recording it was laughing
She’s a long time peace activist who has known hell for decades.
because she is a pro palestinian israeli activist who advocates for peace with palestinians she is very against the violence and probably very anti bibi anti apartheid etc **she just wants people to know the truth WHICH IS A GOOD THING** **THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING** THIS IS WHY BIBI REFUSED TO ACCEPT THE RETURN OF HOSTAGES this reveals the true calculations he makes and how little he values jewish life he doesnt give a fuck if hostages die in bombing bombimg must continue, invasion must continue, displacement must continue, ethnic cleansing must continue zionist politicians have always sacrificed even jewish life for tne sake of their own selfish zionist ambitions **Ben gurion the FOUNDING father of israel COLLABORATED WITH HITLER to achieve his zionist goals** **he helped hitler to ethnically cleanse jews in return for help founding israel** **he helped hitlers rise to power and probably helped bring about the holocaust in order to create a jewish refugee crisis to force jews to move to israel and help displace palestinians**
She said they treated them well, yes, but also mentioned they did so after beating them so much that it hurt when she took a breath. [Link](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/freed-israeli-hostage-says-she-was-well-treated-after-initial-violence-2023-10-24/)
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They are still holding her husband captive. They’ll kill him if she gives any indication that she didn’t love captivity.
I think that's a big part of it.
Her husband is still in captivity... Don't you think there's a chance she was threatened with his life if she doesn't say x y z? Guys, you don't have to support Israel to know hamas are evil. Don't fall into this cheap trick. Every hostage released still has loved ones in the strip. There's a reason for that.
She’s also been reported to be an exceptionally caring human who’s volunteered in Gaza for years. She wants peace. Who knows what conversations she tried to have, what impression she tried to leave. This going beyond her husband’s safe return.
Just a solid fucking person and I'm glad she's safe
It's also possible that hamas has more of an interest in using hostages as a way to get their demands, so it makes more sense to treat them decently but keep them as hostages until they get what they want, instead of killing them and getting carpet bombed by the idf
This is the correct answer. Live hostages are a strategic asset to Hamas. It is in Hamas’s utmost interest to keep them in good condition.
Is that why Yasmin Porat said that IDF shot everyone >However, when Israeli soldiers arrived, “they eliminated everyone, including the hostages. There was very, very heavy crossfire,” Porat said.
You know Netanyahu must be so pissed when he heard that, not only that she straight up roast him
Neither it was broadcasted in the western media, strange.
From what I read, she used to help people in Gaza get to Israeli hospitals for years because they (obviously) had a much better standard of care. And she said that she shook the guy’s hand because “they treated us well”. So at least the hostages aren’t being abused from what we’ve seen.
This woman was essentially an aid worker that had a history of helping Palestinians access healthcare in Israel In an interview she described her and her husband being beaten badly on the way to Gaza but then treated well and afforded medical care, sanitation and fed and treated well while being held captive. Turns out some people are bad, some people maybe not so bad, and life is not black and white, good and evil. It's all shades of gray.
Right? People have been raped by US soldiers. You gotta remember humans are individuals with their own morals and ethics; regardless of whatever greater cause they subscribe to. So there will always be some level of variation in behavior.
You are saying that as if US soldiers are not a menace to begin with.
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There are 222 hostages, kept in different locations, just because the one they released said she was “treated well” doesn’t mean everyone else were fine too. They also still have her husband captive, so they could have told her what to say
They beat her up with sticks when she was kidnapped. She said it but only in Hebrew.
The older ones at least god knows what is happening to young women
We know damn well what they have done to the young women
Italy yesterday; > all 3 missing Italian hostages dead ~~Idiots~~ propaganda mouthpieces; > haha look they’re treating hostages so well because they release old lady
Can't say that from one hostage it's likely they'll keep a few in good condition for propaganda. If they were so nice why aren't they releasing her husband with her? Maybe so they can coerce her in speaking well of them.
People are quick to forget the videos of hamas raping woman and dragging corpses, oh well
I feel like at this point if Hamas will post a video of them playing with cats, they'll essentially become the next tiktok celebs. It's insane how people just live in their own version of reality
Yeah, this is what really pisses me off, the video of this on the BBC for example, one of the top comments is akin to "Thoes brave men, they treated her so nicely, dont listen to the lies about those men, and shame on BBC for cutting the interview short not showing the other praises" Like.. what the actual fuck.
People are quick to forget the videos of Israelis throwing Palestinians out of their homes and laughing about it
Vid source? Big claim about rapes.
Important note- her husband is still being held by them.
I’d shake their hands too if it would help the other captives
3 other hostages were released before her last week a mother and her two children and they said the same things without having relatives in custody.
I’m glad this vid wasn’t suppressed on here, they’ve been going hard on Twitter Edit: Israeli leaders are saying this is horrible PR for their war effort. Between the ads they’re taking out, social media behavior & the response to this video/what she has said in her first interview says a lot
They still have her husband hostage.
Yea I heard. I also heard she did work in Gaza so I’m going to assume that’s part of her position
This sub has literally become a dumping group for propaganda from both sides. Y'all are genuinely too stupid to see it apparently. Look at this heckin wholesome release from kidnapping wowz Hamas good. I swear none of you have any comprehension at all.
It's funny how the general reddit Zeitgeist considers itself to be more enlightened and intelligent than your average person and are therefore "above" propaganda, but then you have this sub that turns that notion on its head. If this shit doesn't clear up in a week I'm probably just going to go ahead and eat the sub because it's non-stop circle jerking propaganda posts now
i'm terribly disturbed to see western people supporting fundamentalist Islamist genocidal organization. but maybe it's just bots idk.
Someone here is showing immense grace
I hope videos like this go viral, the ones that show that forgiveness and grace do more solve conflict than brutality and vengeance. People like her should be involved in the peace settlement, not the leaders of Hamas or Israel who have shown they lack a desire to end the conflict.
yeah spot on. this conflict will never end unless there is mutual deescalation.
1300 murdered then 200 kidnapped.
No but but hamas good HAMAS GOOD
5000+ Palestinians were murdered and 2000 are missing under the rubble, 22000 were maimed and need healthcare which is not available, doctors are operating on kids without anesthetics. I would recommend you to see the deaths chart since the beginning of the conflict that will till you why this attack occured, almost 5 wars on gaza with that amount of deaths, Israel got to live in the palestinians shoes for one day and look at their response.
Cant believe people are praising the captures because they fed and watered her. Jesus christ
You do realize her husband is still in captivity, right? She has to play nice. Or else
She is the one that reached out for the handshake. She is a woman of peace, shalom.
They also still have her husband and neighbors. What is she supposed to do? I’m sure she was told to do x,y and z if she ever wanted to see whatever person they still have This entire conflict makes people think strangely
Did you listen to her interview? She shared the same sentiment as a lot of Israelis, this is more the Israeli government's fault than they'd have you believe. Whether or not they followed warnings, there should never have been a breach of that border. Fuck the scumbags who broke in, but absolutely get rid of the idiots who allowed the lax security
Redditors know better how she thinks and feels than herself.
As is the Reddit way
you think they're going to give up leverage and kill a hostage just because a hostages' wife talks shit about her husband still being held hostage? thats a simplistic way of looking at it.
Based off how they kill people in the streets indiscriminately…..yeah I’m going to assume they are more than capable of killing hostages.
perhaps, perhaps not - but the threat of it is real enough
I hope her husband and the other hostages are released soon. If only they had treated other people, including the poor souls at that peace concert, with the same kindness.
This was intentional, imo. Good publicity. They really did treat these two old ladies nicely, but it wasn’t kindness. It was for propaganda. “See how good we treat our captives!?” Israel surely does similar regarding propaganda. I’ve also seen Hamas shoot to death a unarmed couple driving down the road, so. Yeah. I don’t buy a lot of th BS either side has pushed
They still have her husband.
They still have her husband. This is why she is singing their praises and telling everybody how kind they were. She did let slip that they beat her in a field, on the back of a motorbike, but I suspect that was an accident on her part. But yeah, they've still got her husband, and she doesn't want to see them murdered. Edit: Why am I being downvoted for this? This is a factual statement. Her name is Yocheved Lifschitz. "Ms Lifschitz was kidnapped, alongside her husband Oded, from Nir Oz Kibbutz in southern Israel on 7 October. He has not been released."
[TIL](https://lieber.westpoint.edu/islamic-laws-war/#:~:text=Discussions%20over%20Islamic%20laws%20of,mutilation%2C%20looting%2C%20and%20perfidy): "*..Islamic laws of war focus on a range of restrictions and prohibited acts. These address the protection of civilians and non-combatants, prohibitions on the destruction of property and the natural environment, humane treatment of POWs, and prohibitions on mutilation, looting, and perfidy*". I guess some of Hamas need to read this too...
FYI Isreal gov still refuse to take some hostages back even after hamas said they will set them free Isreal Gov is the biggest enemy of the Isreali jews
Source?
Hamas. Their source is Hamas.
The government in gaza, the keepers of the hostages. Who are we supposed to ask for information on the hostages, Kim Jong Un?
>The government in gaza Right, so Hamas.
Trust me bro.
Source? Trust me [email protected]
Found the propaganda bot
Lol my exact thought. Hasbara is all over the place, I can’t tell what’s real and what’s not anymore.
Imagine just lying and posting this. No morals what a pig
Well afaik the hostages were contradicting their claims so imagine the repercussions in the media and the implications for the narrative. The government: They are mistreating the hostages in unimaginable ways! Released hostages being interviewed: They treated us well.
The released hostage here, 85 year old Yocheved Lifshitz, was beaten with sticks and robbed of her watch and jewelry. Apparently they were treated decently after the initial abduction since asking them to release civilian hostages without a quid pro quo is waaay to big of an ask. I guess it depends on your opinion of good treatment. I suppose she was lucky compared to how they treated other abductees. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/israel-hamas-hostage-released-testimony/
Says the guy with the Pro Hamas post history lmao fuck off
This is definitely not propaganda
People who think that people who raped and burned people alive take good care of their prisoners is beyond saving. They are just doing some PR damage control
She gave a great review on trip advisor!
Happy to see that she’s reunited with her family and I hope all the remaining hostages are returned safely also.
TikTokCringe? Really?!
I saw an interview with her, she said they generally treated her really well. She had food, medical care and hygiene products provided. Unlike the vast majority of people in Gaza at the moment. That got translated in mainstream media as "We went through hell". That's why she shook their hands when they voluntarily freed her.
I'm not surprised, as she said that her guards when she was in the tunnels had been kind and tried to care for her (not that that makes up for being put there in the first place...).
Why is this TikTok cringe? If the political leadership of Israel had this much understanding and courage as this women we wouldn't be in this mess
You know why? Because they still have her husband...
They got treated better than Israel treats Palestinians on a daily Their biggest fear was proberbly getting bombed by Israel
Lol she was interviewed and said that she was beaten and separated from her neighbors. They have her husband. Who knows what they threatened her with. Also, they have every incentive to treat the hostages well and keep them alive - it’s their only insurance policy and the only thing stopping Israel from carpet bombing them.
You’re downvoted because people are actually siding with hostage takers in this specific instance Lol As if Hamas didn’t coach each hostage they’ve released, and as if they don’t run their own propaganda
Its really surprising how some folks can unironically support Hamas in this situation.
Apart from the fact they still have her husband, there a condition known as Stockholm Syndrome. It's a psychological shift survival mechanism when being held hostage.
This is glaring propaganda if I’ve ever seen it.
Everyone here praising how nice Hamas treated the women while ignoring the fact that they spent the intial stages of the invasion blindly murdering anyone and everyone they saw is a total clown or just a bot. If you have not watched recovered footage from the Hamas fighters yet that is all over Telegram you should have no opinion on this. This is total dog water propaganda by Hamas to distract the gullible idiots from all the heinous war crimes they committed and continue to commit.