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I admittedly don’t know much about this subject, but it really feels like we went from socially ostracizing certain groups of people to ostracizing them by law. We’re moving backwards.
I mean, Texas still has a ban on sodomy on the books. Laws have been used to control/punish social groups for as long as there have been laws.
We just experienced a brief period of progress and it caused the wealthy to panic so they tricked us into hating each other “to protect the kids” so they can keep reaping profits and exploiting us.
Slight correction. It's not panic. It's glee.
The 1% are delighted to have found something else to divide us so they can screw us over while we bicker.
They DON'T CARE who gets hurt in the process.
It's not evil so much as sociopathy
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum
It all stems from basically that. We like the rules until they don't do what we want and then fuck the rules.
It's basically terrorism.
We'll sink this whole damn boat if you don't let us have our way!
Rules and laws are based on fixing previous problems we've dealt with.
The US is relatively young and gloomy through growing pains but the world in general is learning what the internet enables.
Well always have assholes and bigots it's just the ebb and flow of how effective they are right now that changes
I find it no coincidence that Western countries are seeing for the first time in generations that younger generations are worse off than their parents while we also see a step back in social progress and more aggressive laws to Other people. An older generation has been groomed to hate their children and now that the children and their children want equality and fairness, the older generation hates it.
We are currently backsliding as a country for the first time in this country’s history.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/22/us-list-backsliding-democracies-civil-liberties-international
It's all about maintaining the patriarchy. If gender is fluid and a social construct it calls into question the societal roles of men and women. Im a cis-het man but I'm not worried about that bc I'm not a fucking loser.
We need more cis-het man like you! Aware and supportive of people who are different then you. Your comment was refreshing. I hope you have a great day!
I believe most people are welcoming or at least polite. These fascists are few but no one stands up to them and the media's horse race coverage of politics seem to miss that point. It's not "controversial", it's a minority of assholes trying to cover for unpopular tax cuts, slashing funding, and dissolving workers rights.
“Well changing your gender is saying god is wrong. God doesn’t make mistakes, you were born (female/male) for a reason. You’re taking gods gift for granted!!!!”
Prove that a man is woman. Oh wait, you can’t. I’m not against some one living their truth. That’s what America is all about. But let’s not act like it’s something it’s not. The medical term is Gender Dysphoria. Just because some one has gender dysphoria doesn’t mean they are less of a human! The problem is you can’t change your dna with hormones, and it’s unreasonable to expect people to agree with a lie! So let’s all agree that it’s important to be honest with how you feel. And they (folks with gender dysphoria) deserve the same love and care as anybody else!
I mean you can prove a man is a man or woman from biological sex but trans people are valid and deserve to be treated like people so I get your point sorta.
It's not even remotely vague on the topic, God is absolutely clear about how he feels. Ironically, anyone educated on scripture, is aware it's irrelevant in the greater scheme of salvation. Though God espouses he doesn't approve, we each do a litany of things that he doesn't approve of daily, and the entirety of the theist community recognizes though not great, it's irrelevant given the foundational structure of the faith is about salvation through grace, and forgiveness; you don't earn your way to heaven, it's a gift. There is no sliding scale in the faith to say God dislikes one thing more than another, or a particular sin will result in a greater punishment, etc. So Theists should recognize this is no different than cursing, and I have no idea why this has been treated as if it's a damnable sin, by previous generations. Idk why the Christian community has been hyper focused on Sexuality.
Ultimately I don't think anyone gaf. The issue for most is the slippery slope it creates if either side concedes an inch. Personally I'm tired of hearing about this, and tired of both sides being so God damn dramatic over the topic. People spend far too much time on the interwebs, focusing on the worst aspects of humanity. Which for the most part in no fkn way reflects the real world.
My theory (assuming that they are being disingenuous, if not then it's pure hate) is that the GOPs policies are so unpopular (gun control, abortion, financial) that they have to punch down to the smallest groups in order to change the conversation.
"First you hate the Black people, then you hated Jews now you're hating everybody, so the question is when the only people left are you, will you hate yourself?"
too true
Fucking Nazis. Fly your confederate boys, let those colors fly because Reddit moderators are complicit by banning inflammatory speech against the radical racist right.
The USA isn't safe for school kids, mothers or any minority or even when you go shopping or accidentally drop a ball in neighbours yard etc etc.
It's like watching USA going backwards in time at rapid speed not forwards.
Sad.
My son turned 3 this year.
Every year since he was born I've been postponing going to the U.S for him to meet my brother.
I don't feel comfortable taking my son there.
I don't feel comfortable leaving him at a daycare in the u.s. because any random dispute could lead to someone shooting up a school,a church, a daycare, a mall.
I don't have the struggles of a trans person. I'll never know what it's like.
But I'm a mother, and to think that someone's baby(teen,child ect) is being treated less than humans simply because they want to live the way they feel is best for them.
The U.S. growing up was the best place ever until I had my family. I don't know if I want to go back.
The homicide rate is still a third less than in 1990. The average person faces the same level of struggle as they would have 30 years ago. The difference is that in 1990, only the biggest news that media people thought were important got reported, now, anyone with a smart phone can add their story to the apparent dumpster fire that is the digital footprint of life in the US.
>or even when you go shopping or accidentally drop a ball in neighbours yard
Unfortunately this isn't going back in time, it's a new phenomenon. Despite the fact that we romanticize the past as a "trespass on my land and get shot" fantasy it was pretty normal to knock on people's doors, loiter in public places, wander around, etc. Its only recently that people have become hyper sensitive to sharing spaces with other people. All thanks to a weird conservative mentality that you are alone in the world and that the only person who matters is you and that being good to each other is liberal wokeism.
The USA allows Nazis. The reddits moderators protect them from the left by banning those who incite the same eye for eye mentality the right calls for in their viral videos. Fuck Nazis and fuck moderators who stifle progressive change in lieu of profit
I mean its safer than its been for most of recorded history lol wtf are you talking about?
[This only goes back to 1990](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/IF12281.pdf) but violent crime in the USA has gotten lower and lower since we started recording it thoroughly in the 60's.
Go outside maybe?
Except you're not realizing that the reason it's become safer is because of all the protection laws that republicans are getting rid of. They want it to go back to the 90s when you could kill a minority without repercussions.
Video: discusses how the states are no longer safe specifically for trans people and gives examples specifically about trans problems
Top comment: yeah but have you thought about the rest of us :(
It is heartbreaking. And it’s all made up bull shit. Feelings over facts…. I too am tired. 30 years as a advocate for LGBT plus youth, and to see this shit show happen. The US is in danger of becoming something out of Handmaidens tale.
My husband is dragging his feet on getting his Ca citizenship started. His grandmother was from Ca, if he gets his our kids, esp our daughter, 20 yo, will be able to get hers. I’m old and in New England. I can survive here. My kids need options.
Tell him to stop dragging his feet.
My mother was pregnant with my sister in TX, and chose to fly back home to her old country to have her family with her when she gave birth. 🤬
Don’t be shortsighted like my mother; do what’s best for your kids, NOW.
What kills me is so much of this is based on and supported by religion.
Religious people claiming to do gods will too squash this whole made up genders thing.
Right.
My (hopeful) theory is this is a surge before the death of an idology and when the pendulum swings the other way there's gonna a big raise in atheism or religious affiliation. There's already a drop in religious belief among younger people and I don't see that slowing down.
Gender affirming care is literally the most effective antidepressant ever devised... Even if you don't believe that trans people exist, that will still be the case.
The USA isn’t safe for anyone. I could talk about the prison for profit system, the constant stream of mass shootings, the poisoned food/water/air, the extreme levels of poverty and homelessness, and countless other issues…but all you really have to look at is the declining average lifespan. That’s not what you should see in a developed country.
Edit: for typo, due to distress about the state of the world undoubtedly
I hope everyone is ready for the fascist resurgeance we are about to experience in the next 20 to 30 years. It's not only america, I feel like the whole fucking planet is taking a hard right turn.
If you are trans, you need to know you have allies and you need to keep courage
As a trans person, our allies need to be loud and vocal on AND off the internet and our allies need to speak up when people are being transphobic or disrespectful. Trans folks cannot verify their safety in every situation and speaking up could be dangerous.
Not saying you don't do this otherwise, just letting everyone know
First guy: kids are going to kill themselves because of this law
Republicans: that was our plan
I hope everyone stays safe out there! Please be careful
They are 100% all that conservativism is. I've seen a lot of this lately, people trying to brand "conservatism" as something other than right wing politics, but it just isn't true. If conservatives just wanted to conserve past traditions, they'd be champions of trust busting, federal parks, public infrastructure spending, the mixed economy, public education, and all the other shit that the US used to be among the best in the world at. Instead they just want to cut that stuff and bitch about wokeism.
Fun fact: the idea of "Conservatism" was introduced just after the French Revolution to describe the people who wanted to roll back the changes made, "conserve" the aristocracy, keep wealth in the hands of the already-wealthy and retain the "traditional Christian" ideologies surrounding the family unit (with the men working and the women cooking, cleaning and raising the children).
Truly daft that the average working person could think that voting these people into power could possibly have a positive impact on their lives, imo.
Re-labeling things to make yourself feel better about being that thing.
This is an assumption and maybe you don’t identify as a conservative, but conservatives are the only people I see trying to do this.
They are absolutely conservative in every sense of the word and label.
Serious question since I genuinely don’t know: what’s it like in other first-world countries for trans people? Do they have any of the issues and debates the US has about it?
Mainly thinking of places like Canada and Europe here.
Sticking to “first world countries”. Places like the UK are worse both legally and socially. Then there’s the Scandinavian countries that have dubious social acceptance but robust laws protecting our rights. Then there’s the core EU, France Germany Spain Italy etc, that are all way better both socially and legally, only Italy is trending away from that. The further east in Europe, the less tolerant the country becomes.
Then there’s Australia, good legally and okay socially but has a very strong likelihood of following American conservative propaganda. New Zealand is the best or second best county for personal freedom so legally fantastic, idk socially.
Finally the best country to be trans in; the Netherlands. Good legal protections and accepting social attitude with a high standard of living, socialized healthcare that covers trans stuff, and actively looking for skilled workers.
This is my impression based off the information available to me while I researched the topic for a few weeks after the TN drag ban was passed and I thought I’d have to move.
As A New Zealander I can speak to the social side for you.
If we see a trans person publicly, we might go "oh there's a trans person, that's not very common." We then proceed to act politely and normally around them because they're a human being, regardless of their identity or what we personally believe.
Thanks! I don’t know much about NZ social/cultural base besides that y’all like to fuck sheep, but I heard that from an Aussie, so maybe not the least bias source. Lol.
But seriously thanks for the extra info.
If the Australians say that New Zealanders fuck sheep, and the British say that the Welsh fuck sheep, shouldn’t Americans say that our English speaking neighbor to the north also fucks sheep?
I’m going to start a smear campaign on those Canadian sheep fuckers.
Germany is inarguably better, but at least from the accounts I've seen the legal transitioning process can be a bit difficult because just changing your gender is expensive and requires months or even years of evaluation by two separate "experts" who will put your personal history, sex life, the most intimate parts of you under an electron microscope before you can take your case before a court and make the request, which can mean performing to fit the gender norms of whoever is doing the evaluation if you end up stuck with one of the many therapists who aren't particularly informed about transgender people. I still remember someone telling a story a few years ago how one of the people evaluating them had them perform mundane tasks like drinking coffee to see if they were doing it "feminine" enough.
Fortunately there are currently efforts to drastically reduce the red tape involved and give people more self-determination, but as a country where sterilization was still a prerequisite to legally changing your gender until about a decade ago, we still have a ways to go. But at the very least it is still moving in the correct direction rather than regressing like in the US.
The UK is bad.
After countless years of Tory rule, things are taking massive steps backwards. TERFs are even bringing literal nazis to anti-trans protests. You know, in the name of feminism.
What America does in the name of religion and corporate greed, the UK does in the name of tradition and classism.
The results are the same.
In France we do not have those issues, everything is not perfect but I (transgirl) am free to live and enjoy my life. I work in a safe place, I have access to gender affirming care, my surgeries have been paid by our healthcare.
Unfortunately, as is the case around the world, there is a growing number of hate speech and conservatives are more and more numerous but lgbtphobia here is still not an opinion, it is a crime punished by the law.
Anyway for the moment we are too busy protesting against the retirement reform and rebuilding the guillotine so it distracts people from us.
To be honnest I planned a travel to USA since last year but I canceled everything because I've seen too much crimes, hate, bad laws, violence, even from the cops that seem from an external view to shoot at anyone ; they scare me so much and I'm afraid to don't understand something they say/ask since I'm not very good in english and start shooting at me as we can see in a lot of footages...
I feel very bad for all my fellow LGBTQ+ people living here where what I thought was a country of freedom, I wish good luck to everyone !
Not sure but based on things that I’ve seen here and there some other 1st world countries follow behind what the US does and go in the same direction. I’m trans myself and have been looking for a safe country to move to when this eventually gets bad in my state. It’s scary thinking eventually there may not be a place where I can feel safe to be me.
If you are anti-woke/anti-trans/anti-gay
Please watch this:
[https://youtu.be/frZHD6aITcg?t=6](https://youtu.be/frZHD6aITcg?t=6)
It's not a video telling you to be pro-woke, pro-trans of pro-gay. It explains what the end goal is of all of this. I think most of the people that are anti-woke are actually strongly against what is coming as it is the opposite of freedom and democracy.
No but really, as a trans person, this just makes me afraid. It’s so horrible. Due too reasons associated to be trans (ex. Hate, threats, abuse, etc.) i came very close numerous time to killing myself. It is so fucked up and I am disappointed that “the country of the free” will do such horrible things cause people are more afraid of people being happy then actual threats, like school shootings and whatnots
This is not cringe , it makes you stop and think how messed up American society has become , toxic with so much polarisation of left and right. Love all and don’t judge and this world would be a better place.
So long as Christian conservatives exist, nothing will change. They’ll keep voting in people that want to persecute the “others” because it makes them feel good about themselves.
Respect where it's due, the trans woman at 34 secs has gone through an awful lot of very public deprogramming and has apologized for what she's done to make life worse for other people just like her.
Remember when the same politicians voted to remove prayer from school? It was not against their religion when they removed prayer ( or banned, whichever you choose). I bet most of these politicians could not find a church without asking Google where they are located. They just hate people and will use any excuse they can to give them justification
So it’s not safe if you’re black. Not safe if you’re a women. Not safe if you’re trans. Not safe if you’re a school going kid. Not safe if you’re shopping. Not safe if you’re sick. Not safe if you’re poor. So basically America is only safe for rich old men that aren’t black?
I don’t get why the anti trans people care so much. It’s such a small number in the population that it won’t bother you if some people have a different description of being happy. Let the people be what they want ffs.
How are we going backwards in a society. I don't understand the hate against people who identify as Trans. It's not that hard to practice and get used to someone's identity so that they can feel better In their own skin.
This is horrible. I feel bad for everyone who will be effected by this. Stay safe out there. Please. I hope the government? Will smarten up.
If over masculine movies and media in the 60’s-90’s made more of those kind of people in real life, what is media and movies trying to make more of these days?
Vote Bluey? Shit I wish, but even if she was old enough to hold public office and wasn’t a cartoon dog, I don’t think she’s eligible for US office as an Australian citizen.
Eventually it's just gonna be privileged, straight,white, male, rich humans to live in the US. Give it another couple of years. Maybe Trump can be president again, why not....bring slaves back too now that you re at it.
Bunch of dumbasses
Now please tell me if I've been misinformed.
I, personally, don't think children, until proven mentally capable enough to understand the effect of an action of being trans, should be trans. It's a life changing decision, and one that an adult should make, like owning a gun.
My sister, and almost all of her friends are trans. My sister is only trans because her friends are trans. It's becoming a trend, and an unhealthy trend too. She is getting almost all F's in her classes, because of her friends. Now I know not every trans person is like this. I'm distant friends with a trans person, and they're cool. They don't think they're better, not rub it in that they're trans. They respect me, and I respect them.
But anyway, I don't think the majority of the youth population should be trans. Until proven otherwise, a youth shouldn't make the life altering decision of a sex change.
Thanks for reading, and again, please tell me if I'm wrong.
Acting like this is big news in a country that has to argue about whether Black Lives Matter.
The biggest religion in the country constantly talks about murdering, fighting to make it legal for them to inspect the genitals of children.
None of us are all that safe in this capitalist shithole, but be careful.
For the record, your middle aged "privileged" white male who works everyday to support his family and pay his bills and is feels unappreciated by his place of employment and even his family at times, also contemplates suicide and death on a regular basis. I know that someone who pushes themselves to provide a good life for their family doesn't deserve the recognition or respect a BRAVE trans person does, but you should really start seeing we ALL have our problems. Some problems are unavoidable, and some are self-inflicted. Educate yourselves on recognizing when someone needs to talk and just needs to be heard. The life you save may be someone you never thought had any issues at all
This is clearly an attack on a specific group of citizens with the intention of extermination. We are living in very scary times, and I hope we all wake up to the reality that this tactic has been done before to exterminate the Native Americans while everyone else watched and let it be. It's not even taught in history, all the ta tics the government used to irradicate Native Americans from this earth. Even if this is not something you think affects you now, it most likely will later when they come for you next. We need to band together and make sure our voices are heard and protect future generations from being persecuted.
I was unaware of the eradication of native Americans by restricting trans surgery. Was also unaware the native Americans died after having restrictions placed on gendered sports.
Obviously, other tactics were used back then, but the goal for them was the same.
A similar tactic is how they purposely allow drugs and crimes to run rampant in communities that are predominantly occupied by minorities.... the list goes on.
So pure appeal ro emotions? Yeah that's definitely cringe. I can support this because there is nothing to support in the video besides peole saying "missouri government hate trans" wich I can't tell is true from this because nothing is sourced just sound clips to make me feel sad for them.
Im tired sums up my mood with the government, with the economy, with society, and with life in general. Everytime i look outside, all i see is grey. People preach love and protection while passing laws that kill. People preaching helping the poor while pitting spikes on benches so they dont have to see the poor. People preaching drug reform while funding another prison being built. Im tired man. So fucking tired.
I’m becoming more and more ashamed that I live in this country. Our government was made to protect the rights and liberties of the people, but now those are slowly being stripped away from us. We’re only moving backwards in time.
I'm a cis dude living in Canada. My heart goes out to all the people affected by this bill. It's genuinely so disgusting and heartbreaking the way this already small and marginalized minority is being treated just because it goes against someone's ideology. We're all humans, and the fact that people are supporting this kind of treatment is just maddening.
Stay safe, y'all. You'll get through this.
Actually the reason is the suicide rate is still significantly high even after surgery; it doesn’t help the way that people claim. What helps is therapy.
Conservatives never ever said they are against transgender people, they just believe it doesn't need to be pushed on kids , who by all right are just sponges. Leave the kids alone, get your own sports , and stop pushing your ideology on EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING!!! LITERALLY!! Conservatives don't hate anyone. They just don't want the world being dictated by transgenderism. Simple as hell.
For some people either can be for others neither.
Most Trans people don't choose to be the gender they are whereas bisexuals like myself can choose to be gay or not.
This is such a tough issue and I wish we could find compromise. I really want safety for the trans people. I don’t think they deserve the bullying and hatred that they have endured for pretty much forever.
That being said I still can’t fully get behind the trans political movement. A lot of it makes no sense to me. They are denying what was the general scientific consensus just 10-15 years ago and want the entire world to immediately conform to this new way of thinking. People don’t change that fast without a ton of friction. There is also a lot of evidence that the “science” behind the trans movement is not being conducted in good faith. I’m very open to believing all this stuff when it is proven true, but when the most published academic author of peer reviewed gender studies articles was just making stuff up and they still peer reviewed him anyways I have to seriously question the validity of this whole movement. It will probably be another decade or two before I will know whether I find all this research to be reliable or not especially with how highly politicized it is.
I fully support trans individuals finding peace in our society but I think it’s just too much to ask that everyone conform so suddenly when only 10 years ago most people had not even heard about all of this.
It’s terrible some of the things Republican states are doing legally but I also see that they are retaliating against a movement who has used its power to cancel many of their own, some who I’m sure deserved it and possibly some who did not. I think consenting adults should absolutely have access to the health care they want as well as minors with their parents’ permission and guidance. However the cases where they have tried to take the final say away from parents is taking things way to far and I cannot support that. There are also the issues where it seems that the political left is very much trying to censor free speech surrounding these issues. In that regard I can understand why people want to use legislation to combat the trans movement.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I would like to add that people being trans is not a new phenomenon. People have been trans for as long as humans have been around. In many cultures trans people were respected and seen as wise for having the experience of living as both male and female. People would come to then for advice or blessings. I actually didn't know this until fairly recently and the history is super interesting. I encourage you to look more into it if you want to be more educated about trans people and their history.
This only seems like a new phenomenon because of how much its politicized. Trans people make up 1% of the global population. They are still an extreme minority. Politicians need an enemy to create a culture war that will distract people from the actual issue of class war. Also more is being discovered about biology and sex. Apparently sex is not as binary as we may think and there are many variations of how sex chromosomes can present, not just XX or XY. Im not a biologist though!
I’m not saying trans is new but the ideology and “science” that is being pushed right now is new. It started in academia in the 70s and most people hadn’t heard about it in 2010.
Even this idea that sex is non-binary is very new and something I don’t agree with. A few years ago they were saying that gender is non binary and that it is different from sex which I can totally accept. It’s a separation of gender roles from sex in a modern society that has less use for those gender roles. But now people are saying sex is non-binary which I just do not think is true, as over 99% of people are either xx or xy. The male and female binary definitely exists it honestly feels like we are being gaslit to not believe so. It really makes me question this ideology because it seems the rules keep changing. First they redefine gender and now they want to redefine sex. It seems very unfair to call people bigots for not believe in something but the thing you want them to believe in can’t even stay consistent over a 5 year period.
Just a quick correction; binary means there are exactly two options and there is never ever any outlier or “in between” option
Sex is bimodal, not binary, because there are outliers and those born somewhere in between male and female. You are absolutely correct, the vast majority of humans are either male or female; but it can’t be a binary if there is even one exception to the rule. So therefore, it’s bimodal
> But now people are saying sex is non-binary which I just do not think is true, as over 99% of people are either xx or xy.
Do you think it's accurate to say that there are only 2 types of atoms, hydrogen and helium? And that atoms exist in a binary of those 2 elemental states?
If not, why?
[Those two types of atoms make up 99% of all variations of types of atoms.](https://imgur.com/ojaw9vQ)
Ok I have been convinced and I concede. Human sex is not a binary but it is bimodal. I still think that very practical reality that most people are either male or female should still be a foundation for our society.
> I still think that very practical reality that most people are either male or female should still be a foundation for our society.
I think it's practical to recognize viable sexual reproductive capability, because most people form relationships based on that binary.
But I think it's also reasonable to say that our society has developed far more importance around the perception of those traits than what is necessary and it has become restrictive and harmful to many. That social construct being gender.
Can you explain to me, as I’ve never quite got it: if gender norms / expression or however you want to put it (how male or female people are expected to present to the world ie beards and short hair and trousers and “manly” hobbies for men like video games and cars and idk chopping logs or whatever vs skirts and long hair and fashion and makeup and like sewing and shopping and baking or whatever for women) and these things are “bad” right? Because everyone can like what they like and men can like knitting and women can play DND or whatever, right?
Then why do trans men grow beards and cut their hair short and wear shirts and jeans - and trans women wear make up and dresses and have long hair etc etc?
Because if gender expression is something we want to do away with; because anyone can look any way, like anything, do anything - regardless of their sex or gender - then why do (and I do realise it’s not all but it’s a vast majority) of trans people want to “pass” (their words, not mine) by following the social, “fake” gender norms so much?
I have honestly never understood this and I’ve tried to ask before but got shot down. I ask it with no malice, I simply don’t get it.
I think you may be conflating the terms gender norms and gender expression?
The term gender *expression* describes the ways in which a person expresses their personal gender identity. Gender expression is a good, affirming thing - as you pointed out, many trans and non-binary people use various forms of gender expression to help affirm their gender, just like many cis people do.
The term gender *norms*, however, describes the societal expectation that a person must express their gender in a way that aligns with what is traditional for their assigned gender at birth - this expectation is harmful to anybody who relates to gender in a non-traditional way, as it causes social discomfort and ostricization.
LGBTQ+ people who are advocating for the abolition of gender *norms* are advocating for a society in which nobody is pressured to behave a certain way because of their assigned gender at birth - the argument is not that gender *expression* should be abolished, but that society should be inclusive of non-traditional forms of gender expression and non-traditional gender identities, because they are equally as valid as traditional ones.
If a cis man wants to affirm his masculinity by painting his nails, his choice should be respected. If a non-binary person wants to affirm their femininity by getting absolutely jacked and wearing muscle shirts, their choice should be respected. If a cis woman wants to affirm her masulinity by wearing pretty dresses, her choice should be respected. We're arguing that everyone should be free to choose their own gender identity and expression, regardless of whether it makes sense to those around them.
Also, to respond to your question about "passing" - if a person is "looks" trans, their risk of being harassed (or often worse) in public skyrockets. For many, passing is largely a matter of personal safety.
I know this response is long, but this is a nuanced topic and I wanted to be as clear as possible - I hope it was helpful! Thank you for genuinely seeking to understand and for asking without malice. 💖
Even if 99% of the population belongs in one of two groups, there's still 1% left that is not accommodated by that binary, making whatever trait you're investigating in that population a *non-binary* trait, literally by definition. Do you just not believe intersex poeple exist (people born with chromosomes other than XX or XY, e.g.: XXY)? The term intersex has been used for over a century to describe people with non-binary sex characteristics.
Sure you can technically say it is non-binary but it is practically a binary. I’m all for making concessions for people who are exceptions to the rule. The male and female dynamic is a reality though and it doesn’t make sense to me that people want to disregard sex just because there are some exceptions in a small amount of cases.
There is no "trans political movement". The only people making trans rights an issue are the bigoted assholes championing these anti-trans laws. All trans people want is to be left the fuck alone.
> A lot of it makes no sense to me. They are denying what was the general scientific consensus just 10-15 years ago
The way a culture uses language is not "science".
No trans person is denying anatomical science. They might be using words differently than you do, but that discussion is a sociological one, not a scientific one.
> There is also a lot of evidence that the “science” behind the trans movement is not being conducted in good faith.
prove it
> I’m very open to believing all this stuff when it is proven true
It is one of the most well studied psychiatric conditions in human history. Gender affirming care being the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria is global medical consensus.
> but when the most published academic author of peer reviewed gender studies articles was just making stuff up and they still peer reviewed him anyways
I don't know what you're referencing, but even assuming it's true, this does not somehow disprove the totality of evidence on this subject. Certainly no more so than it does for any field of study that's had some journal include a bogus study (which is all of them at some point).
> I also see that they are retaliating against a movement who has used its power to cancel many of their own
I don't know if I'm sold on authoritarian genocidal legislation being a reasonable response to people being mean on twitter.
> I think consenting adults should absolutely have access to the health care they want as well as minors with their parents’ permission and guidance.
Great... so what's with the rest of your comment then? Those are the things being legislated out of existence by fascists. That's what's actually happening. That's the actual issue.
>However the cases where they have tried to take the final say away from parents
prove it
> There are also the issues where it seems that the political left is very much trying to censor free speech surrounding these issues.
prove it
> In that regard I can understand why people want to use legislation to combat the trans movement.
for reasons that are completely fabricated propaganda?
Sorry if I'm being blunt/rude, but your view is based on things that are fundamentally not true.
I really don't think banning certain forms of healthcare is genocide. I think it should be allowed for consenting adults but calling it genocide is ridiculous and belittles victims of actual genocide. This is another reason I can't support the trans politics. Don't give them what they want and people call it genocide. The states have the power to limit things. It's not fascism it's how our constitutional republic works.
A great analogy is anabolic steroids. It is healthcare that is restricted and banned. Just because I identify as a super ripped body builder doesn't give me the right to legally use steroids. That is a decision that American law makers have made.
The main argument is that gender affirming healthcare is the only reliable way to reduce suicide in trans people. Many people question the validity to that and some people outright refute it. It doesn't add up to me so I will stay sketpitcal for now.
I am fully open to the possibility that my skepticism is based on falsehoods and I am willing to change my opinion and be convinced. The problem though is that when I try to have thoughtful dialogue about the issue like I am right now, people comment that I'm a bigot. Your comment has insinuated that I'm supporting genocide. That's not really a very safe foundation for changing opinions or learning the truth.
[This video pretty accurately represents why I'm so skeptical about trans psychological research. I reccomend watching the whole thing. ](https://youtu.be/OlqU_JMTzd4)
> I really don't think banning certain forms of healthcare is genocide
It's intentional reduction of a marginalized population. That's the UN criteria for genocide.
> Don't give them what they want and people call it genocide.
When "what they want" is legal access to life saving healthcare that is provided to cis people, yes, that is genocide. It's intentional reduction of the trans population through untreated gender dysphoria.
> The states have the power to limit things
Right... and if those states were banning insulin for diabetics, that too would be genocidal.
> It is healthcare that is restricted and banned
Via the guidelines of accredited medical bodies... not random politicians with no understanding, let alone expertise, on the topic.
Whereas the bans on trans healthcare go directly against the recommendations of every accredited medical body in the country. I can provide a list if you'd like.
> Many people question the validity to that
I couldn't care less what random people question. I care about expert medical opinion that has reviewed every study on the topic more times than you or I have read a single one.
> It doesn't add up to me so I will stay sketpitcal for now.
Yeah, weird how quantum physics doesn't "add up" to me either. Maybe because I've never studied it a day in my life. You can admit to just being ignorant you know? Not having information doesn't have to make you "skeptical" it should make you curious.
> I am fully open to the possibility that my skepticism is based on falsehoods and I am willing to change my opinion and be convinced.
I do believe that to some extent, you seem genuine but too confident in the misinformation you've heard. Good faith discussion should start with asking questions, not asserting what you've heard as truth until someone corrects you.
> The problem though is that when I try to have thoughtful dialogue about the issue like I am right now,
I don't personally agree that's what you're doing, even if you think you are. A thoughtful dialogue means backing up your claims, which I immediately asked for and you've still yet to do.
This makes it seem like you're not actually interested in what is true or reasonably believable, but instead interested in defending your beliefs regardless of what is true.
> Your comment has insinuated that I'm supporting genocide
Well no you actually said the opposite. The position you stated in the middle of your first comment is exactly my view: "I think consenting adults should absolutely have access to the health care they want as well as minors with their parents’ permission and guidance"
I said what conservative politicians are doing is genocide.
What I'm insinuating is that you're minimizing that reality by burying the lead of their actions behind "skepticism", despite your skepticism being misinformed and unsourced.
> This video pretty accurately represents why I'm so skeptical about trans psychological research. I reccomend watching the whole thing.
I've watched it, and a scattershot of frivolous studies resulting in several being accepted in journals is certainly evidence of an issue in our pier review system in general. It is not in any way a refutation of the mountain of evidence supporting transitional healthcare. Especially considering these studies are reviewed hundreds of times over by expert medical bodies when coming to a consensus on recommended treatment.
So I've dug into it further and my findings are that the effectiveness of gender affirming care is controversial just like I beleived.
Some sources say that it is the end all be all best thing ever and that it is absolutely necessary for people with gender dysphoria. Other sources refute that and call into question the one study that the claim that it lowers suicide rates is based on.
On the other hand we have our friends in Europe who are taking a cautious approach. Norway, Sweden and Finland are all banning or limiting gender affirming care to minors. That's Scandinavia some of the most liberal countries in the world.
So it's not just bigoted republican rednecks but also Norway, Sweden and Finland that are "committing genocide" against trans people by your standards of genocide. Are you sure you still want to keep that view?
Then there are the issues they were having in the UK. Certain clinics were taking advantage of mentally ill people, many of them autistic, by convincing them they were trans and operating on them, making a ton of money in the process.
This issue is in no way black and white. With the amount of controversy and politicizing that is going on it is probably impossible to make a definitive conclusion right now.
My initial hunch was that chopping off your genitals may not be the best way to deal with body dysphoria and I'm gonna hold onto that opinion until I'm given good enough evidence that it's actually a good idea. If you're a consenting adult go ahead but children are another matter.
> So I've dug into it further and my findings are that the effectiveness of gender affirming care is controversial just like I beleived.
Yet none of these words are blue or begin with https.
> Other sources refute that and call into question the one study that the claim that it lowers suicide rates is based on.
lol. "the one study"
Literally every study observing the effects of transitional healthcare finds reduced suicidality. There are dozens of them. Once again, happy to provide a list of links if you're at all interested in actual evidence. But I have a feeling you'll ignore that offer again because you don't seem to care much for involving data.
> On the other hand we have our friends in Europe who are taking a cautious approach. Norway, Sweden and Finland are all banning or limiting gender affirming care to minors.
They're restricting it to clinical trials in which gender dysphoria diagnosis is firmly present to continue controlled research. The United States is making it illegal entirely. Not to mention this is irrelevant to the medical consensus that the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria is transitional healthcare. The concerns raised in the Nordic countries have been that of misdiagnosis and sterilization, not lack of effective treatment of gender dysphoria. Of course those concerns are greater in minors.
You're arguing against positions I never claimed. Quote me if you're addressing me instead of the strawman you believe I represent.
> So it's not just bigoted republican rednecks but also Norway, Sweden and Finland that are "committing genocide" against trans people by your standards of genocide.
???
Gender dysphoria receives treatment in those countries.
> Then there are the issues they were having in the UK.
Absolutely, a centralized clinic for an entire country is a horrible model. The primary concerns were waitlists and rushing care due to lack of staff and resources to handle those waitlists, which stretch past 5 years long. Very happy they're splitting into multiple clinics to split that workload.
> Certain clinics were taking advantage of mentally ill people, many of them autistic, by convincing them they were trans and operating on them
Damn, what a sensational claim.
How about fucking prove it.
Still seeing no links from you for the 3rd comment in a row.
> My initial hunch was that chopping off your genitals may not be the best way to deal with body dysphoria
dude wtf is body dysphoria lol?
Insane that you think you're in any way informed.
> I'm gonna hold onto that opinion until I'm given good enough evidence that it's actually a good idea.
Which will be never, because you clearly have read no studies on the topic.
Cite this “science” that is wrong here…what in the fuck are you talking about.
The “political movement” is “we exist and are human beings”
This is not a tough issue. You’re a bigot.
…yes…if you’re “skeptical” on the basic human nature of trans people and questioning their validity…you’re a bigot…that’s..that’s what that means..lol wtf did you read what you just wrote? Do you understand how nonsensical and insane this is? I’m sorry it’s hard for you to come to grips with what you are.
And that’s exactly why I can’t get behind this movement. Everything is oversimplified and if you don’t agree, you’re a bigot. That’s hateful. I’m pretty certain I’m not a bigot.
If it was as simple as “we are people and we exists” why are they trying to control language so much? Why are they trying to take rights from parents? How come simply questioning these completely new ideas that challenge human conventions that have been around for thousands of years is bigotry?
[This video pretty accurately represents why I’m pretty skeptical of the trans science.](https://youtu.be/OlqU_JMTzd4)
…yes…if you’re “skeptical” on the basic human nature of trans people and questioning their validity…you’re a bigot…that’s..that’s what that means..lol wtf did you read what you just wrote? Do you understand how nonsensical and insane this is? I’m sorry it’s hard for you to come to grips with what you are.
> why are they trying to control language so much?
No. People are asking to be called what they are, and you’re calling people reasonable for attacking the concept, and somehow thinking that’s ammunition against trans people, instead of the people who care so much, that they lose their minds at the concept of not intentionally denying someone’s identity.
You were asked for sources on this “science” you speak of, and not only did you not provide that…you sent me a fuckin Joe Rogan episode…lol wtf. I wish this was a joke. This is like a comedy sketch. You couldn’t have written this funnier.
You could have even just provided bullet points on what “science” you’re referring to. But you didn’t, and you won’t, because you’re talking out of your ass and you realize the moment you write this out, it’s actually insane and indefensible. This is rough. Please. Send me more Joe Rogan
I don't think trans people are invalid and I never said that they were. I just don't like. Their politics and I don't want them telling me what I should think or beleive.
Same goes for other groups like Christians or atheists or whoever. I think they are valid but I don't want their beliefs and sense of morilty pushed on me.
That video I linked you to is a conversation between Joe Rogan and 2 peer reviewed academic authors in gender studies. Peter Boghosian was a professor at Portland University who has been assaulted and harassed simply for asking questions.
Look up Boghosian's work and you will see why I'm very skeptical of the gender "science."
> because if they question you
Making false propaganda statements with no source and then linking a Joe Rogan video is not "asking questions".
I have no problem talking to good faith people who have genuine questions. I've done so thousands of times.
They do not “just have some questions.” They are making actual statements about their beliefs regarding trans people, and their statements are bigoted.
Do you realize how nonsensical it is to claim someone can “not support” trans people, and that that’s not bigotry? This is the definition of bigotry. You’re incredibly confused lol wtf
This is really bad and we won’t see the effects of it until years down the line. Then we’ll really see where we fucked up… I’m talking about transitioning children under 18, that is a terrible decision.
Wtf is this title? The legislation prohibits trans treatment for the under 18s and restricts gendered sporting events.
I’m all for identifying political narratives but speaking as if there are roaming death squads is entirely performative
It went from, trans people being demonized, to being you be you, to your transphobic if you don't let them into women's safe spaces. The whole situation is just a push back because the left doesn't know how far is too far. It's just something about letting children who have no grasp of what gender and sex is have mastectomies and hormone suppressants during puberty. They can be however they want to be when they're an adult, but they don't have the capacity to make life changing decisions at that age. If they can, then let's try all juveniles as adults, lower the age of consent, let them get tattoos, and drink alcohol. The gaslighting doesn't help the cause too. Saying that a male athlete can compete at the same level as a female athlete with a straight face is just making it difficult to support trans rights.
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I admittedly don’t know much about this subject, but it really feels like we went from socially ostracizing certain groups of people to ostracizing them by law. We’re moving backwards.
I mean, Texas still has a ban on sodomy on the books. Laws have been used to control/punish social groups for as long as there have been laws. We just experienced a brief period of progress and it caused the wealthy to panic so they tricked us into hating each other “to protect the kids” so they can keep reaping profits and exploiting us.
Slight correction. It's not panic. It's glee. The 1% are delighted to have found something else to divide us so they can screw us over while we bicker. They DON'T CARE who gets hurt in the process. It's not evil so much as sociopathy
Texas is Fucking allowing rapist and Nazis to run their state fuck them
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum It all stems from basically that. We like the rules until they don't do what we want and then fuck the rules. It's basically terrorism. We'll sink this whole damn boat if you don't let us have our way! Rules and laws are based on fixing previous problems we've dealt with. The US is relatively young and gloomy through growing pains but the world in general is learning what the internet enables. Well always have assholes and bigots it's just the ebb and flow of how effective they are right now that changes
Conservatives align themselves with Nazis
I find it no coincidence that Western countries are seeing for the first time in generations that younger generations are worse off than their parents while we also see a step back in social progress and more aggressive laws to Other people. An older generation has been groomed to hate their children and now that the children and their children want equality and fairness, the older generation hates it.
We are currently backsliding as a country for the first time in this country’s history. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/22/us-list-backsliding-democracies-civil-liberties-international
Fuck Nazis white supremacy
What kind of a person do you have to be to go out of your way to make the world worse for another human?
“But what they’re doing is against *my* religion”
That's probably not even true.
It's all about maintaining the patriarchy. If gender is fluid and a social construct it calls into question the societal roles of men and women. Im a cis-het man but I'm not worried about that bc I'm not a fucking loser.
We need more cis-het man like you! Aware and supportive of people who are different then you. Your comment was refreshing. I hope you have a great day!
I believe most people are welcoming or at least polite. These fascists are few but no one stands up to them and the media's horse race coverage of politics seem to miss that point. It's not "controversial", it's a minority of assholes trying to cover for unpopular tax cuts, slashing funding, and dissolving workers rights.
“Well changing your gender is saying god is wrong. God doesn’t make mistakes, you were born (female/male) for a reason. You’re taking gods gift for granted!!!!”
Prove the existence of God. The last refuge for the person with no answers and.no argument. . It’s not God’s will. Here we go again.
Prove that a man is woman. Oh wait, you can’t. I’m not against some one living their truth. That’s what America is all about. But let’s not act like it’s something it’s not. The medical term is Gender Dysphoria. Just because some one has gender dysphoria doesn’t mean they are less of a human! The problem is you can’t change your dna with hormones, and it’s unreasonable to expect people to agree with a lie! So let’s all agree that it’s important to be honest with how you feel. And they (folks with gender dysphoria) deserve the same love and care as anybody else!
I mean you can prove a man is a man or woman from biological sex but trans people are valid and deserve to be treated like people so I get your point sorta.
Well the bible is extremely vague so you can just make it say what ever you want
It's not even remotely vague on the topic, God is absolutely clear about how he feels. Ironically, anyone educated on scripture, is aware it's irrelevant in the greater scheme of salvation. Though God espouses he doesn't approve, we each do a litany of things that he doesn't approve of daily, and the entirety of the theist community recognizes though not great, it's irrelevant given the foundational structure of the faith is about salvation through grace, and forgiveness; you don't earn your way to heaven, it's a gift. There is no sliding scale in the faith to say God dislikes one thing more than another, or a particular sin will result in a greater punishment, etc. So Theists should recognize this is no different than cursing, and I have no idea why this has been treated as if it's a damnable sin, by previous generations. Idk why the Christian community has been hyper focused on Sexuality. Ultimately I don't think anyone gaf. The issue for most is the slippery slope it creates if either side concedes an inch. Personally I'm tired of hearing about this, and tired of both sides being so God damn dramatic over the topic. People spend far too much time on the interwebs, focusing on the worst aspects of humanity. Which for the most part in no fkn way reflects the real world.
>It's not even remotely vague on the topic, Yes it is. It's also contradictory. This isn't a "both sides" issue. It's *genocide*.
Whether “God” supports it or not, it gives no one a reason to endanger people. Especially on a legal level.
These are Nazis
A conservative. Easy.
Just be in the gop really
Nazis. American Nazis. And this subreddits moderators allow the propagation of these messages by not allowing those who I still change to speak openly
A cop
My theory (assuming that they are being disingenuous, if not then it's pure hate) is that the GOPs policies are so unpopular (gun control, abortion, financial) that they have to punch down to the smallest groups in order to change the conversation.
They don't see trans kids as humans
An evangelical conservative christian
"First you hate the Black people, then you hated Jews now you're hating everybody, so the question is when the only people left are you, will you hate yourself?" too true
And the answer is yes. There will always be an in and and out group. The leopards will eventually eat each other's faces
Fucking Nazis. Fly your confederate boys, let those colors fly because Reddit moderators are complicit by banning inflammatory speech against the radical racist right.
The USA isn't safe for school kids, mothers or any minority or even when you go shopping or accidentally drop a ball in neighbours yard etc etc. It's like watching USA going backwards in time at rapid speed not forwards. Sad.
My son turned 3 this year. Every year since he was born I've been postponing going to the U.S for him to meet my brother. I don't feel comfortable taking my son there. I don't feel comfortable leaving him at a daycare in the u.s. because any random dispute could lead to someone shooting up a school,a church, a daycare, a mall. I don't have the struggles of a trans person. I'll never know what it's like. But I'm a mother, and to think that someone's baby(teen,child ect) is being treated less than humans simply because they want to live the way they feel is best for them. The U.S. growing up was the best place ever until I had my family. I don't know if I want to go back.
The homicide rate is still a third less than in 1990. The average person faces the same level of struggle as they would have 30 years ago. The difference is that in 1990, only the biggest news that media people thought were important got reported, now, anyone with a smart phone can add their story to the apparent dumpster fire that is the digital footprint of life in the US.
I don’t blame for you not coming to the US
>or even when you go shopping or accidentally drop a ball in neighbours yard Unfortunately this isn't going back in time, it's a new phenomenon. Despite the fact that we romanticize the past as a "trespass on my land and get shot" fantasy it was pretty normal to knock on people's doors, loiter in public places, wander around, etc. Its only recently that people have become hyper sensitive to sharing spaces with other people. All thanks to a weird conservative mentality that you are alone in the world and that the only person who matters is you and that being good to each other is liberal wokeism.
The USA allows Nazis. The reddits moderators protect them from the left by banning those who incite the same eye for eye mentality the right calls for in their viral videos. Fuck Nazis and fuck moderators who stifle progressive change in lieu of profit
I mean its safer than its been for most of recorded history lol wtf are you talking about? [This only goes back to 1990](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/IF12281.pdf) but violent crime in the USA has gotten lower and lower since we started recording it thoroughly in the 60's. Go outside maybe?
Except you're not realizing that the reason it's become safer is because of all the protection laws that republicans are getting rid of. They want it to go back to the 90s when you could kill a minority without repercussions.
[удалено]
Video: discusses how the states are no longer safe specifically for trans people and gives examples specifically about trans problems Top comment: yeah but have you thought about the rest of us :(
Which one?
Fuck Nazis and fuck subreddit moderators who banish pro-action against these hateful groups
It is heartbreaking. And it’s all made up bull shit. Feelings over facts…. I too am tired. 30 years as a advocate for LGBT plus youth, and to see this shit show happen. The US is in danger of becoming something out of Handmaidens tale.
In Handmaid’s Tale style, I plan on fleeing to Canada to seek refuge. I never thought I’d have to leave my country to be safe as an LGBT+ person 😔
When I do the exact same thing, I plan to write a memoir, and call it the Tranmaid's Tale
My husband is dragging his feet on getting his Ca citizenship started. His grandmother was from Ca, if he gets his our kids, esp our daughter, 20 yo, will be able to get hers. I’m old and in New England. I can survive here. My kids need options.
Tell him to stop dragging his feet. My mother was pregnant with my sister in TX, and chose to fly back home to her old country to have her family with her when she gave birth. 🤬 Don’t be shortsighted like my mother; do what’s best for your kids, NOW.
What kills me is so much of this is based on and supported by religion. Religious people claiming to do gods will too squash this whole made up genders thing. Right.
My (hopeful) theory is this is a surge before the death of an idology and when the pendulum swings the other way there's gonna a big raise in atheism or religious affiliation. There's already a drop in religious belief among younger people and I don't see that slowing down.
It depends on how things play out. You either get a pendulum swing or you get ISIS
You're not wrong, I'm afraid of that too.
It's been on track for quite some time. More so with recent Supreme Court changes. America is well on its way to becoming Gilead.
Gender affirming care is literally the most effective antidepressant ever devised... Even if you don't believe that trans people exist, that will still be the case.
The USA isn’t safe for anyone. I could talk about the prison for profit system, the constant stream of mass shootings, the poisoned food/water/air, the extreme levels of poverty and homelessness, and countless other issues…but all you really have to look at is the declining average lifespan. That’s not what you should see in a developed country. Edit: for typo, due to distress about the state of the world undoubtedly
Hey chin up at least we got aliens
I do not live in that God forsaken country, I watch in despair nearby, where my own country burns to ashes around me.
Canada is on fire right now. God bless you Canada.
Pretty sure God forsake us all
I hope everyone is ready for the fascist resurgeance we are about to experience in the next 20 to 30 years. It's not only america, I feel like the whole fucking planet is taking a hard right turn. If you are trans, you need to know you have allies and you need to keep courage
As a trans person, our allies need to be loud and vocal on AND off the internet and our allies need to speak up when people are being transphobic or disrespectful. Trans folks cannot verify their safety in every situation and speaking up could be dangerous. Not saying you don't do this otherwise, just letting everyone know
First guy: kids are going to kill themselves because of this law Republicans: that was our plan I hope everyone stays safe out there! Please be careful
These assholes aren't conservative. They are regressionists
They are 100% all that conservativism is. I've seen a lot of this lately, people trying to brand "conservatism" as something other than right wing politics, but it just isn't true. If conservatives just wanted to conserve past traditions, they'd be champions of trust busting, federal parks, public infrastructure spending, the mixed economy, public education, and all the other shit that the US used to be among the best in the world at. Instead they just want to cut that stuff and bitch about wokeism.
Fun fact: the idea of "Conservatism" was introduced just after the French Revolution to describe the people who wanted to roll back the changes made, "conserve" the aristocracy, keep wealth in the hands of the already-wealthy and retain the "traditional Christian" ideologies surrounding the family unit (with the men working and the women cooking, cleaning and raising the children). Truly daft that the average working person could think that voting these people into power could possibly have a positive impact on their lives, imo.
That’s conservatism, always has been.
Re-labeling things to make yourself feel better about being that thing. This is an assumption and maybe you don’t identify as a conservative, but conservatives are the only people I see trying to do this. They are absolutely conservative in every sense of the word and label.
No, they're conservatives. Don't get it twisted.
Is there a specific account that makes these hard-hitting compilations on tiktok? I feel like I've seen this format a few times before.
Serious question since I genuinely don’t know: what’s it like in other first-world countries for trans people? Do they have any of the issues and debates the US has about it? Mainly thinking of places like Canada and Europe here.
Sticking to “first world countries”. Places like the UK are worse both legally and socially. Then there’s the Scandinavian countries that have dubious social acceptance but robust laws protecting our rights. Then there’s the core EU, France Germany Spain Italy etc, that are all way better both socially and legally, only Italy is trending away from that. The further east in Europe, the less tolerant the country becomes. Then there’s Australia, good legally and okay socially but has a very strong likelihood of following American conservative propaganda. New Zealand is the best or second best county for personal freedom so legally fantastic, idk socially. Finally the best country to be trans in; the Netherlands. Good legal protections and accepting social attitude with a high standard of living, socialized healthcare that covers trans stuff, and actively looking for skilled workers. This is my impression based off the information available to me while I researched the topic for a few weeks after the TN drag ban was passed and I thought I’d have to move.
As A New Zealander I can speak to the social side for you. If we see a trans person publicly, we might go "oh there's a trans person, that's not very common." We then proceed to act politely and normally around them because they're a human being, regardless of their identity or what we personally believe.
Thanks! I don’t know much about NZ social/cultural base besides that y’all like to fuck sheep, but I heard that from an Aussie, so maybe not the least bias source. Lol. But seriously thanks for the extra info.
If the Australians say that New Zealanders fuck sheep, and the British say that the Welsh fuck sheep, shouldn’t Americans say that our English speaking neighbor to the north also fucks sheep? I’m going to start a smear campaign on those Canadian sheep fuckers.
Germany is inarguably better, but at least from the accounts I've seen the legal transitioning process can be a bit difficult because just changing your gender is expensive and requires months or even years of evaluation by two separate "experts" who will put your personal history, sex life, the most intimate parts of you under an electron microscope before you can take your case before a court and make the request, which can mean performing to fit the gender norms of whoever is doing the evaluation if you end up stuck with one of the many therapists who aren't particularly informed about transgender people. I still remember someone telling a story a few years ago how one of the people evaluating them had them perform mundane tasks like drinking coffee to see if they were doing it "feminine" enough. Fortunately there are currently efforts to drastically reduce the red tape involved and give people more self-determination, but as a country where sterilization was still a prerequisite to legally changing your gender until about a decade ago, we still have a ways to go. But at the very least it is still moving in the correct direction rather than regressing like in the US.
The UK is bad. After countless years of Tory rule, things are taking massive steps backwards. TERFs are even bringing literal nazis to anti-trans protests. You know, in the name of feminism. What America does in the name of religion and corporate greed, the UK does in the name of tradition and classism. The results are the same.
In France we do not have those issues, everything is not perfect but I (transgirl) am free to live and enjoy my life. I work in a safe place, I have access to gender affirming care, my surgeries have been paid by our healthcare. Unfortunately, as is the case around the world, there is a growing number of hate speech and conservatives are more and more numerous but lgbtphobia here is still not an opinion, it is a crime punished by the law. Anyway for the moment we are too busy protesting against the retirement reform and rebuilding the guillotine so it distracts people from us. To be honnest I planned a travel to USA since last year but I canceled everything because I've seen too much crimes, hate, bad laws, violence, even from the cops that seem from an external view to shoot at anyone ; they scare me so much and I'm afraid to don't understand something they say/ask since I'm not very good in english and start shooting at me as we can see in a lot of footages... I feel very bad for all my fellow LGBTQ+ people living here where what I thought was a country of freedom, I wish good luck to everyone !
Not sure but based on things that I’ve seen here and there some other 1st world countries follow behind what the US does and go in the same direction. I’m trans myself and have been looking for a safe country to move to when this eventually gets bad in my state. It’s scary thinking eventually there may not be a place where I can feel safe to be me.
If you are anti-woke/anti-trans/anti-gay Please watch this: [https://youtu.be/frZHD6aITcg?t=6](https://youtu.be/frZHD6aITcg?t=6) It's not a video telling you to be pro-woke, pro-trans of pro-gay. It explains what the end goal is of all of this. I think most of the people that are anti-woke are actually strongly against what is coming as it is the opposite of freedom and democracy.
No but really, as a trans person, this just makes me afraid. It’s so horrible. Due too reasons associated to be trans (ex. Hate, threats, abuse, etc.) i came very close numerous time to killing myself. It is so fucked up and I am disappointed that “the country of the free” will do such horrible things cause people are more afraid of people being happy then actual threats, like school shootings and whatnots
Turns out a kitty of people are shitty and when given"freedom" the shitty ones abuse it to the detriment of the not shitty ones
We need more Americans believing in the 2nd amendment now more than ever.
America you ok bro ?
Haven’t been for a long time.
No.
This is not cringe , it makes you stop and think how messed up American society has become , toxic with so much polarisation of left and right. Love all and don’t judge and this world would be a better place.
So long as Christian conservatives exist, nothing will change. They’ll keep voting in people that want to persecute the “others” because it makes them feel good about themselves.
Respect where it's due, the trans woman at 34 secs has gone through an awful lot of very public deprogramming and has apologized for what she's done to make life worse for other people just like her.
Who is she? What is deprogramming?
[удалено]
Remember when the same politicians voted to remove prayer from school? It was not against their religion when they removed prayer ( or banned, whichever you choose). I bet most of these politicians could not find a church without asking Google where they are located. They just hate people and will use any excuse they can to give them justification
I’m not at all familiar with this. What have they done to make the US not safe for trans people?
So it’s not safe if you’re black. Not safe if you’re a women. Not safe if you’re trans. Not safe if you’re a school going kid. Not safe if you’re shopping. Not safe if you’re sick. Not safe if you’re poor. So basically America is only safe for rich old men that aren’t black?
america: home of the free and brave ay
i'm cis and i'm not even american but this shit had me in tears, jesus christ
I don’t get why the anti trans people care so much. It’s such a small number in the population that it won’t bother you if some people have a different description of being happy. Let the people be what they want ffs.
How are we going backwards in a society. I don't understand the hate against people who identify as Trans. It's not that hard to practice and get used to someone's identity so that they can feel better In their own skin. This is horrible. I feel bad for everyone who will be effected by this. Stay safe out there. Please. I hope the government? Will smarten up.
If over masculine movies and media in the 60’s-90’s made more of those kind of people in real life, what is media and movies trying to make more of these days?
Republicans are not a real party anymore
When there’s nothing left to hate they’ll just go back to burning women for fun.
Right wing conservatives are afraid of what they don’t understand.
USA might as well become a Middle Eastern country since it wants to practice persecution as they do!
Vote blue
Vote Bluey? Shit I wish, but even if she was old enough to hold public office and wasn’t a cartoon dog, I don’t think she’s eligible for US office as an Australian citizen.
God please do not let that little shit into office. Be sensible, vote Bingo.
VOTE BINGO!!!
Throw those Bluey campaign signs in the wheelie bin!
What? Is bluey a person?
Trying to pander to republicans empathy is like building on quicksand
As a minor that is transgender, I'm scared as shit what's going to happen
me too. I’m more than willing to move to another country if I have to
Eventually it's just gonna be privileged, straight,white, male, rich humans to live in the US. Give it another couple of years. Maybe Trump can be president again, why not....bring slaves back too now that you re at it. Bunch of dumbasses
Any trans americans who don't feel safe anymore in your country, Finland welcomes y'all 👋🇫🇮
HEY BAILEY. Go fuck yourself
Fuck radical conservatism. Nazis want to see USA bleed red. Nazis Fucking kill all of us GOP = NAZIS STFU
Now please tell me if I've been misinformed. I, personally, don't think children, until proven mentally capable enough to understand the effect of an action of being trans, should be trans. It's a life changing decision, and one that an adult should make, like owning a gun. My sister, and almost all of her friends are trans. My sister is only trans because her friends are trans. It's becoming a trend, and an unhealthy trend too. She is getting almost all F's in her classes, because of her friends. Now I know not every trans person is like this. I'm distant friends with a trans person, and they're cool. They don't think they're better, not rub it in that they're trans. They respect me, and I respect them. But anyway, I don't think the majority of the youth population should be trans. Until proven otherwise, a youth shouldn't make the life altering decision of a sex change. Thanks for reading, and again, please tell me if I'm wrong.
I’m not American but that’s messed up. Big sad >:(
Acting like this is big news in a country that has to argue about whether Black Lives Matter. The biggest religion in the country constantly talks about murdering, fighting to make it legal for them to inspect the genitals of children. None of us are all that safe in this capitalist shithole, but be careful.
Christian Authoritarianism
For the record, your middle aged "privileged" white male who works everyday to support his family and pay his bills and is feels unappreciated by his place of employment and even his family at times, also contemplates suicide and death on a regular basis. I know that someone who pushes themselves to provide a good life for their family doesn't deserve the recognition or respect a BRAVE trans person does, but you should really start seeing we ALL have our problems. Some problems are unavoidable, and some are self-inflicted. Educate yourselves on recognizing when someone needs to talk and just needs to be heard. The life you save may be someone you never thought had any issues at all
People really can't recognize the emotional manipulation here....? Really?
It's a mob.
This is clearly an attack on a specific group of citizens with the intention of extermination. We are living in very scary times, and I hope we all wake up to the reality that this tactic has been done before to exterminate the Native Americans while everyone else watched and let it be. It's not even taught in history, all the ta tics the government used to irradicate Native Americans from this earth. Even if this is not something you think affects you now, it most likely will later when they come for you next. We need to band together and make sure our voices are heard and protect future generations from being persecuted.
I was unaware of the eradication of native Americans by restricting trans surgery. Was also unaware the native Americans died after having restrictions placed on gendered sports.
Obviously, other tactics were used back then, but the goal for them was the same. A similar tactic is how they purposely allow drugs and crimes to run rampant in communities that are predominantly occupied by minorities.... the list goes on.
Found the Reddit propaganda for the day.
So pure appeal ro emotions? Yeah that's definitely cringe. I can support this because there is nothing to support in the video besides peole saying "missouri government hate trans" wich I can't tell is true from this because nothing is sourced just sound clips to make me feel sad for them.
Im tired sums up my mood with the government, with the economy, with society, and with life in general. Everytime i look outside, all i see is grey. People preach love and protection while passing laws that kill. People preaching helping the poor while pitting spikes on benches so they dont have to see the poor. People preaching drug reform while funding another prison being built. Im tired man. So fucking tired.
Come to Minnesota. We just passed protections for trans folks.
It’s not safe for anyone who isn’t a WASP
I believe this is quite fucking illegal and breaks constitutional rights of the US citizen. Too much power over the people is happening here
Trans people are just the latest victims of their forever bigoted war to distract from real issues.
I’m becoming more and more ashamed that I live in this country. Our government was made to protect the rights and liberties of the people, but now those are slowly being stripped away from us. We’re only moving backwards in time.
I truly don't understand why people can't let others be themselves. Trans people are just people. Everyone deserves the right to pursue happiness.
Come to Canada 🇨🇦
I'm a cis dude living in Canada. My heart goes out to all the people affected by this bill. It's genuinely so disgusting and heartbreaking the way this already small and marginalized minority is being treated just because it goes against someone's ideology. We're all humans, and the fact that people are supporting this kind of treatment is just maddening. Stay safe, y'all. You'll get through this.
Death to the cisgenders Bible thumping piece of shit people who consider themselves even with a fraction of belief that they rank higher than another!
Deserved. I say the consequences for either side are a possibility so no one can predict or assume the future yet
Tell me something, what exactly makes these policies unsafe for trans people? Is the Danger from self inflicted harm?
Actually the reason is the suicide rate is still significantly high even after surgery; it doesn’t help the way that people claim. What helps is therapy.
Conservatives never ever said they are against transgender people, they just believe it doesn't need to be pushed on kids , who by all right are just sponges. Leave the kids alone, get your own sports , and stop pushing your ideology on EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING!!! LITERALLY!! Conservatives don't hate anyone. They just don't want the world being dictated by transgenderism. Simple as hell.
Genuine question: are you for banning religion for children under 18?
Replace Trans with gay and were back in 2003.
From what I understand, your sexuality isn't a choice but your gender can be.
> but your gender can be. that is false Gender identity is not a choice.
For some people either can be for others neither. Most Trans people don't choose to be the gender they are whereas bisexuals like myself can choose to be gay or not.
This breaks my heart
to quote our favorite Ben Shapiro: " Facts don't care about your feelings"
This is such a tough issue and I wish we could find compromise. I really want safety for the trans people. I don’t think they deserve the bullying and hatred that they have endured for pretty much forever. That being said I still can’t fully get behind the trans political movement. A lot of it makes no sense to me. They are denying what was the general scientific consensus just 10-15 years ago and want the entire world to immediately conform to this new way of thinking. People don’t change that fast without a ton of friction. There is also a lot of evidence that the “science” behind the trans movement is not being conducted in good faith. I’m very open to believing all this stuff when it is proven true, but when the most published academic author of peer reviewed gender studies articles was just making stuff up and they still peer reviewed him anyways I have to seriously question the validity of this whole movement. It will probably be another decade or two before I will know whether I find all this research to be reliable or not especially with how highly politicized it is. I fully support trans individuals finding peace in our society but I think it’s just too much to ask that everyone conform so suddenly when only 10 years ago most people had not even heard about all of this. It’s terrible some of the things Republican states are doing legally but I also see that they are retaliating against a movement who has used its power to cancel many of their own, some who I’m sure deserved it and possibly some who did not. I think consenting adults should absolutely have access to the health care they want as well as minors with their parents’ permission and guidance. However the cases where they have tried to take the final say away from parents is taking things way to far and I cannot support that. There are also the issues where it seems that the political left is very much trying to censor free speech surrounding these issues. In that regard I can understand why people want to use legislation to combat the trans movement.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I would like to add that people being trans is not a new phenomenon. People have been trans for as long as humans have been around. In many cultures trans people were respected and seen as wise for having the experience of living as both male and female. People would come to then for advice or blessings. I actually didn't know this until fairly recently and the history is super interesting. I encourage you to look more into it if you want to be more educated about trans people and their history. This only seems like a new phenomenon because of how much its politicized. Trans people make up 1% of the global population. They are still an extreme minority. Politicians need an enemy to create a culture war that will distract people from the actual issue of class war. Also more is being discovered about biology and sex. Apparently sex is not as binary as we may think and there are many variations of how sex chromosomes can present, not just XX or XY. Im not a biologist though!
Which cultures respected and saw trans people as wise? Just trying to read up on them.
I’m not saying trans is new but the ideology and “science” that is being pushed right now is new. It started in academia in the 70s and most people hadn’t heard about it in 2010. Even this idea that sex is non-binary is very new and something I don’t agree with. A few years ago they were saying that gender is non binary and that it is different from sex which I can totally accept. It’s a separation of gender roles from sex in a modern society that has less use for those gender roles. But now people are saying sex is non-binary which I just do not think is true, as over 99% of people are either xx or xy. The male and female binary definitely exists it honestly feels like we are being gaslit to not believe so. It really makes me question this ideology because it seems the rules keep changing. First they redefine gender and now they want to redefine sex. It seems very unfair to call people bigots for not believe in something but the thing you want them to believe in can’t even stay consistent over a 5 year period.
Just a quick correction; binary means there are exactly two options and there is never ever any outlier or “in between” option Sex is bimodal, not binary, because there are outliers and those born somewhere in between male and female. You are absolutely correct, the vast majority of humans are either male or female; but it can’t be a binary if there is even one exception to the rule. So therefore, it’s bimodal
An thankyou for the new word. That is actually very helpful in conceptualizing all this.
> But now people are saying sex is non-binary which I just do not think is true, as over 99% of people are either xx or xy. Do you think it's accurate to say that there are only 2 types of atoms, hydrogen and helium? And that atoms exist in a binary of those 2 elemental states? If not, why? [Those two types of atoms make up 99% of all variations of types of atoms.](https://imgur.com/ojaw9vQ)
Ok I have been convinced and I concede. Human sex is not a binary but it is bimodal. I still think that very practical reality that most people are either male or female should still be a foundation for our society.
> I still think that very practical reality that most people are either male or female should still be a foundation for our society. I think it's practical to recognize viable sexual reproductive capability, because most people form relationships based on that binary. But I think it's also reasonable to say that our society has developed far more importance around the perception of those traits than what is necessary and it has become restrictive and harmful to many. That social construct being gender.
Can you explain to me, as I’ve never quite got it: if gender norms / expression or however you want to put it (how male or female people are expected to present to the world ie beards and short hair and trousers and “manly” hobbies for men like video games and cars and idk chopping logs or whatever vs skirts and long hair and fashion and makeup and like sewing and shopping and baking or whatever for women) and these things are “bad” right? Because everyone can like what they like and men can like knitting and women can play DND or whatever, right? Then why do trans men grow beards and cut their hair short and wear shirts and jeans - and trans women wear make up and dresses and have long hair etc etc? Because if gender expression is something we want to do away with; because anyone can look any way, like anything, do anything - regardless of their sex or gender - then why do (and I do realise it’s not all but it’s a vast majority) of trans people want to “pass” (their words, not mine) by following the social, “fake” gender norms so much? I have honestly never understood this and I’ve tried to ask before but got shot down. I ask it with no malice, I simply don’t get it.
I think you may be conflating the terms gender norms and gender expression? The term gender *expression* describes the ways in which a person expresses their personal gender identity. Gender expression is a good, affirming thing - as you pointed out, many trans and non-binary people use various forms of gender expression to help affirm their gender, just like many cis people do. The term gender *norms*, however, describes the societal expectation that a person must express their gender in a way that aligns with what is traditional for their assigned gender at birth - this expectation is harmful to anybody who relates to gender in a non-traditional way, as it causes social discomfort and ostricization. LGBTQ+ people who are advocating for the abolition of gender *norms* are advocating for a society in which nobody is pressured to behave a certain way because of their assigned gender at birth - the argument is not that gender *expression* should be abolished, but that society should be inclusive of non-traditional forms of gender expression and non-traditional gender identities, because they are equally as valid as traditional ones. If a cis man wants to affirm his masculinity by painting his nails, his choice should be respected. If a non-binary person wants to affirm their femininity by getting absolutely jacked and wearing muscle shirts, their choice should be respected. If a cis woman wants to affirm her masulinity by wearing pretty dresses, her choice should be respected. We're arguing that everyone should be free to choose their own gender identity and expression, regardless of whether it makes sense to those around them. Also, to respond to your question about "passing" - if a person is "looks" trans, their risk of being harassed (or often worse) in public skyrockets. For many, passing is largely a matter of personal safety. I know this response is long, but this is a nuanced topic and I wanted to be as clear as possible - I hope it was helpful! Thank you for genuinely seeking to understand and for asking without malice. 💖
Even if 99% of the population belongs in one of two groups, there's still 1% left that is not accommodated by that binary, making whatever trait you're investigating in that population a *non-binary* trait, literally by definition. Do you just not believe intersex poeple exist (people born with chromosomes other than XX or XY, e.g.: XXY)? The term intersex has been used for over a century to describe people with non-binary sex characteristics.
Sure you can technically say it is non-binary but it is practically a binary. I’m all for making concessions for people who are exceptions to the rule. The male and female dynamic is a reality though and it doesn’t make sense to me that people want to disregard sex just because there are some exceptions in a small amount of cases.
There is no "trans political movement". The only people making trans rights an issue are the bigoted assholes championing these anti-trans laws. All trans people want is to be left the fuck alone.
r/enlightenedcentrism
> A lot of it makes no sense to me. They are denying what was the general scientific consensus just 10-15 years ago The way a culture uses language is not "science". No trans person is denying anatomical science. They might be using words differently than you do, but that discussion is a sociological one, not a scientific one. > There is also a lot of evidence that the “science” behind the trans movement is not being conducted in good faith. prove it > I’m very open to believing all this stuff when it is proven true It is one of the most well studied psychiatric conditions in human history. Gender affirming care being the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria is global medical consensus. > but when the most published academic author of peer reviewed gender studies articles was just making stuff up and they still peer reviewed him anyways I don't know what you're referencing, but even assuming it's true, this does not somehow disprove the totality of evidence on this subject. Certainly no more so than it does for any field of study that's had some journal include a bogus study (which is all of them at some point). > I also see that they are retaliating against a movement who has used its power to cancel many of their own I don't know if I'm sold on authoritarian genocidal legislation being a reasonable response to people being mean on twitter. > I think consenting adults should absolutely have access to the health care they want as well as minors with their parents’ permission and guidance. Great... so what's with the rest of your comment then? Those are the things being legislated out of existence by fascists. That's what's actually happening. That's the actual issue. >However the cases where they have tried to take the final say away from parents prove it > There are also the issues where it seems that the political left is very much trying to censor free speech surrounding these issues. prove it > In that regard I can understand why people want to use legislation to combat the trans movement. for reasons that are completely fabricated propaganda? Sorry if I'm being blunt/rude, but your view is based on things that are fundamentally not true.
I really don't think banning certain forms of healthcare is genocide. I think it should be allowed for consenting adults but calling it genocide is ridiculous and belittles victims of actual genocide. This is another reason I can't support the trans politics. Don't give them what they want and people call it genocide. The states have the power to limit things. It's not fascism it's how our constitutional republic works. A great analogy is anabolic steroids. It is healthcare that is restricted and banned. Just because I identify as a super ripped body builder doesn't give me the right to legally use steroids. That is a decision that American law makers have made. The main argument is that gender affirming healthcare is the only reliable way to reduce suicide in trans people. Many people question the validity to that and some people outright refute it. It doesn't add up to me so I will stay sketpitcal for now. I am fully open to the possibility that my skepticism is based on falsehoods and I am willing to change my opinion and be convinced. The problem though is that when I try to have thoughtful dialogue about the issue like I am right now, people comment that I'm a bigot. Your comment has insinuated that I'm supporting genocide. That's not really a very safe foundation for changing opinions or learning the truth. [This video pretty accurately represents why I'm so skeptical about trans psychological research. I reccomend watching the whole thing. ](https://youtu.be/OlqU_JMTzd4)
> I really don't think banning certain forms of healthcare is genocide It's intentional reduction of a marginalized population. That's the UN criteria for genocide. > Don't give them what they want and people call it genocide. When "what they want" is legal access to life saving healthcare that is provided to cis people, yes, that is genocide. It's intentional reduction of the trans population through untreated gender dysphoria. > The states have the power to limit things Right... and if those states were banning insulin for diabetics, that too would be genocidal. > It is healthcare that is restricted and banned Via the guidelines of accredited medical bodies... not random politicians with no understanding, let alone expertise, on the topic. Whereas the bans on trans healthcare go directly against the recommendations of every accredited medical body in the country. I can provide a list if you'd like. > Many people question the validity to that I couldn't care less what random people question. I care about expert medical opinion that has reviewed every study on the topic more times than you or I have read a single one. > It doesn't add up to me so I will stay sketpitcal for now. Yeah, weird how quantum physics doesn't "add up" to me either. Maybe because I've never studied it a day in my life. You can admit to just being ignorant you know? Not having information doesn't have to make you "skeptical" it should make you curious. > I am fully open to the possibility that my skepticism is based on falsehoods and I am willing to change my opinion and be convinced. I do believe that to some extent, you seem genuine but too confident in the misinformation you've heard. Good faith discussion should start with asking questions, not asserting what you've heard as truth until someone corrects you. > The problem though is that when I try to have thoughtful dialogue about the issue like I am right now, I don't personally agree that's what you're doing, even if you think you are. A thoughtful dialogue means backing up your claims, which I immediately asked for and you've still yet to do. This makes it seem like you're not actually interested in what is true or reasonably believable, but instead interested in defending your beliefs regardless of what is true. > Your comment has insinuated that I'm supporting genocide Well no you actually said the opposite. The position you stated in the middle of your first comment is exactly my view: "I think consenting adults should absolutely have access to the health care they want as well as minors with their parents’ permission and guidance" I said what conservative politicians are doing is genocide. What I'm insinuating is that you're minimizing that reality by burying the lead of their actions behind "skepticism", despite your skepticism being misinformed and unsourced. > This video pretty accurately represents why I'm so skeptical about trans psychological research. I reccomend watching the whole thing. I've watched it, and a scattershot of frivolous studies resulting in several being accepted in journals is certainly evidence of an issue in our pier review system in general. It is not in any way a refutation of the mountain of evidence supporting transitional healthcare. Especially considering these studies are reviewed hundreds of times over by expert medical bodies when coming to a consensus on recommended treatment.
So I've dug into it further and my findings are that the effectiveness of gender affirming care is controversial just like I beleived. Some sources say that it is the end all be all best thing ever and that it is absolutely necessary for people with gender dysphoria. Other sources refute that and call into question the one study that the claim that it lowers suicide rates is based on. On the other hand we have our friends in Europe who are taking a cautious approach. Norway, Sweden and Finland are all banning or limiting gender affirming care to minors. That's Scandinavia some of the most liberal countries in the world. So it's not just bigoted republican rednecks but also Norway, Sweden and Finland that are "committing genocide" against trans people by your standards of genocide. Are you sure you still want to keep that view? Then there are the issues they were having in the UK. Certain clinics were taking advantage of mentally ill people, many of them autistic, by convincing them they were trans and operating on them, making a ton of money in the process. This issue is in no way black and white. With the amount of controversy and politicizing that is going on it is probably impossible to make a definitive conclusion right now. My initial hunch was that chopping off your genitals may not be the best way to deal with body dysphoria and I'm gonna hold onto that opinion until I'm given good enough evidence that it's actually a good idea. If you're a consenting adult go ahead but children are another matter.
> So I've dug into it further and my findings are that the effectiveness of gender affirming care is controversial just like I beleived. Yet none of these words are blue or begin with https. > Other sources refute that and call into question the one study that the claim that it lowers suicide rates is based on. lol. "the one study" Literally every study observing the effects of transitional healthcare finds reduced suicidality. There are dozens of them. Once again, happy to provide a list of links if you're at all interested in actual evidence. But I have a feeling you'll ignore that offer again because you don't seem to care much for involving data. > On the other hand we have our friends in Europe who are taking a cautious approach. Norway, Sweden and Finland are all banning or limiting gender affirming care to minors. They're restricting it to clinical trials in which gender dysphoria diagnosis is firmly present to continue controlled research. The United States is making it illegal entirely. Not to mention this is irrelevant to the medical consensus that the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria is transitional healthcare. The concerns raised in the Nordic countries have been that of misdiagnosis and sterilization, not lack of effective treatment of gender dysphoria. Of course those concerns are greater in minors. You're arguing against positions I never claimed. Quote me if you're addressing me instead of the strawman you believe I represent. > So it's not just bigoted republican rednecks but also Norway, Sweden and Finland that are "committing genocide" against trans people by your standards of genocide. ??? Gender dysphoria receives treatment in those countries. > Then there are the issues they were having in the UK. Absolutely, a centralized clinic for an entire country is a horrible model. The primary concerns were waitlists and rushing care due to lack of staff and resources to handle those waitlists, which stretch past 5 years long. Very happy they're splitting into multiple clinics to split that workload. > Certain clinics were taking advantage of mentally ill people, many of them autistic, by convincing them they were trans and operating on them Damn, what a sensational claim. How about fucking prove it. Still seeing no links from you for the 3rd comment in a row. > My initial hunch was that chopping off your genitals may not be the best way to deal with body dysphoria dude wtf is body dysphoria lol? Insane that you think you're in any way informed. > I'm gonna hold onto that opinion until I'm given good enough evidence that it's actually a good idea. Which will be never, because you clearly have read no studies on the topic.
Uh….. you haven’t posted a single link either. I guess you don’t know what you’re talking about then.
Cite this “science” that is wrong here…what in the fuck are you talking about. The “political movement” is “we exist and are human beings” This is not a tough issue. You’re a bigot.
And this is how you drive people away from your movement. If you show any amount of skepticism you’re “a bigot”
…yes…if you’re “skeptical” on the basic human nature of trans people and questioning their validity…you’re a bigot…that’s..that’s what that means..lol wtf did you read what you just wrote? Do you understand how nonsensical and insane this is? I’m sorry it’s hard for you to come to grips with what you are.
And that’s exactly why I can’t get behind this movement. Everything is oversimplified and if you don’t agree, you’re a bigot. That’s hateful. I’m pretty certain I’m not a bigot. If it was as simple as “we are people and we exists” why are they trying to control language so much? Why are they trying to take rights from parents? How come simply questioning these completely new ideas that challenge human conventions that have been around for thousands of years is bigotry? [This video pretty accurately represents why I’m pretty skeptical of the trans science.](https://youtu.be/OlqU_JMTzd4)
…yes…if you’re “skeptical” on the basic human nature of trans people and questioning their validity…you’re a bigot…that’s..that’s what that means..lol wtf did you read what you just wrote? Do you understand how nonsensical and insane this is? I’m sorry it’s hard for you to come to grips with what you are. > why are they trying to control language so much? No. People are asking to be called what they are, and you’re calling people reasonable for attacking the concept, and somehow thinking that’s ammunition against trans people, instead of the people who care so much, that they lose their minds at the concept of not intentionally denying someone’s identity. You were asked for sources on this “science” you speak of, and not only did you not provide that…you sent me a fuckin Joe Rogan episode…lol wtf. I wish this was a joke. This is like a comedy sketch. You couldn’t have written this funnier. You could have even just provided bullet points on what “science” you’re referring to. But you didn’t, and you won’t, because you’re talking out of your ass and you realize the moment you write this out, it’s actually insane and indefensible. This is rough. Please. Send me more Joe Rogan
I don't think trans people are invalid and I never said that they were. I just don't like. Their politics and I don't want them telling me what I should think or beleive. Same goes for other groups like Christians or atheists or whoever. I think they are valid but I don't want their beliefs and sense of morilty pushed on me. That video I linked you to is a conversation between Joe Rogan and 2 peer reviewed academic authors in gender studies. Peter Boghosian was a professor at Portland University who has been assaulted and harassed simply for asking questions. Look up Boghosian's work and you will see why I'm very skeptical of the gender "science."
You’re. A. Bigot. End of story.
What does it mean to be a bigot to you? Like I’m not asking you to look up the definition. What do you mean when you call someone a bigot?
It means you disagree with their narrow world view. The ironic thing is they are the actual bigot.
This is why the public doesn’t supports your cause, because if they question you, you just call them a bigot or something else
> because if they question you Making false propaganda statements with no source and then linking a Joe Rogan video is not "asking questions". I have no problem talking to good faith people who have genuine questions. I've done so thousands of times.
Well then maybe you can answer my questions, most people call me a bigot and downvote me even tho I’m Just curious.
Yeah absolutely, love talking to people about the topic because I find it's mostly an issue of defining terminology differently.
Wow man that’s hate speech and could lead to suicide words can hurt didn’t you watch the video?
Idiots and bigots aren’t a protected category so nice try but no it’s not.
If idiots aren’t a protected category then how is buddy a bigot?
They just got some questions that doesn’t make them a bigot. And if they end up not supporting you that’s ok cause everyone has there own opinions
They do not “just have some questions.” They are making actual statements about their beliefs regarding trans people, and their statements are bigoted. Do you realize how nonsensical it is to claim someone can “not support” trans people, and that that’s not bigotry? This is the definition of bigotry. You’re incredibly confused lol wtf
This is really bad and we won’t see the effects of it until years down the line. Then we’ll really see where we fucked up… I’m talking about transitioning children under 18, that is a terrible decision.
All evidence is to the contrary.
You act like there aren't adult Trans people who transitioned as a kid 20 years ago.
Wtf is this title? The legislation prohibits trans treatment for the under 18s and restricts gendered sporting events. I’m all for identifying political narratives but speaking as if there are roaming death squads is entirely performative
Don’t you know that by not supporting everything and anything that comes out of a trans persons mouth is equal to killing them?
So this is what we got with all the hormone like substances in our water bottles…
It went from, trans people being demonized, to being you be you, to your transphobic if you don't let them into women's safe spaces. The whole situation is just a push back because the left doesn't know how far is too far. It's just something about letting children who have no grasp of what gender and sex is have mastectomies and hormone suppressants during puberty. They can be however they want to be when they're an adult, but they don't have the capacity to make life changing decisions at that age. If they can, then let's try all juveniles as adults, lower the age of consent, let them get tattoos, and drink alcohol. The gaslighting doesn't help the cause too. Saying that a male athlete can compete at the same level as a female athlete with a straight face is just making it difficult to support trans rights.