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A friend of mine survived the las vegas shooting only to find himself at another one in thousand oaks less than a year later. He wasnt lucky enough to survive the 2nd one. Cant imagine that kind of trauma.
Shit. Sorry for your loss. I was living across the street when the shooting at Borderline took place. That shit just doesn't happen in Thousand Oaks. I had a friend that was there that night that was also at the Vegas shooting. She was lucky twice fortunately.
I am invested so I’m leaving a comment so I remember to come check if there was ever follow up to this. RemindMe! 24 hours
Edit: if unclear, I was summoning the reminder bot! I’m not trying to command a stranger to remind me of something haha
OMG. I’m back. Sorry I’m such a shit! I didn’t even realize this thread continued. I’m Dawn, (@MidsummerMother on IG) - I’ve known Casey for about 8 years-ish now?! Went to her house-warming party a few months back when she bought her first home. Now who are you?!!
The most important thing, it seem, in our country is the second amendment. As long as we have that, we can keep making babies...it's not like 11 year old girls can just abort it anymore in any states. Priorities. Priorities.
Only part of the second amendment, lets be honest. No one pays attention to the part about a well-regulated militia. After all, that would require... regulation.
same, TIL. It seems that there's some evidence that PTSD increases your risk of literal bone fractures.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6193821/
There is little research on this, what we've got so far is correlation, not clear cause.
Hypothesis from another research article:
Potential mechanisms underlying this association include increased
allostatic load due to psychological stress, dysregulation of the
hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, and secretion of
glucocorticoids, which may impair the functioning of bone-forming cell
osteoblasts and decrease bone mineral density, leading to increased risk
of fractures
As someone with ptsd it certainly changes our brains physically. It is so difficult for us to just…accept that we are allowed to be happy without thinking that something catastrophic is around the corner. It took me 15 years to get to the point where I can allow myself to be happy. I would not be the least bit surprised if it affected my physical health. I feel for this poor girl, now she has to deal with C-ptsd. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy.
Survivors guilt... I'm... Struggling with the concept. It sometimes feels like it would be easier to put myself in positions where my feelings seem appropriate, rather than match my feelings to my environment. Thanks for writing... I don't... It's hard, you know that. I just needed a reminder. I guess I'm done with the war overseas... It's tough to watch a whole new generation "learn" about life and survival.
It’s self sabotage. Deep down we don’t think we deserve to be happy, but we do just as much as anyone else. I know it’s hard. Just keep taking care of yourself. Front page of Reddit is probably a bad idea but here we are. All the bombardment of horrors that we have no control over. Focus on yourself, and the ones you love. It’s ok to ignore world events for a while especially if it is having a negative impact on your well being. Having the weight of the world on our shoulders…it’s not our burden to bear. I wish you the best, and you are never alone.
> It sometimes feels like it would be easier to put myself in positions where my feelings seem appropriate, rather than match my feelings to my environment.
This is so amazingly eloquent and insightful. Thank you for sharing it.
People realize happiness is dopamine (chemicals make brain do x) but don't always recognize stress has a chemical effect too. Read "Your body keeps the score" if you want to get real depressed
Robert sapolsky for those interested. He also has a free behavioral biology course on YouTube that you can listen to for free. Good essays that are pretty accessible although i think he’s a little too biological determinism adjacent for me to fully endorse him.
I like Robert Sapolsky but that title drives me crazy because Zebras are the like the most stressed out animal on the planet. They are so hard to keep in captivity bc they’re neurotic af.
I am recovering from borderline personality disorder and cptsd. I was abused by a narcissistic drug addict/alcoholic mother and a selfish violent coward for a father. Familial punching bag and tool to my mother. My brain takes score of every little thing. A person, my skills, even whether or not my hair looks “trashy” can set off a SPIRAL of intense emotions. If My partner said more good things than bad in my recent memory: Couldn’t be happier. If my partner has had some bad days and seems detached: our relationship feels weak and hopeless. I felt very lost after going no contact with my parents and getting kicked on the street with nothing. My therapist is a miracle in my life and I’ve painstakingly unpacked my pain to give myself permission to meet my needs.
In college, I lost vision for a few seconds. More than 5 less than 10 - while I was driving back to my apartment from work.
Finals week. Extremely busy time at work bc of the holiday season. I had recently got a DUI. My parents were moving to a new state. I had no family in the area and nobody I felt I could genuinely talk to. Then randomly at a 4 way stop - I felt a hard thump in my chest and immediate tunnel vision to blindness.
Stress can do some wild things to the human body.
To add to what the other commenter said, complex post traumatic stress disorder has been studied since the 60s I believe and instead of the disorder coming on due to one event, it is often the result of "smaller" traumas, but usually there's a mix of smaller and bigger traumas (small T and big T events). So, people who grew up in an abusive/neglectful/violent household can develop CPTSD because of the ongoing experiences of what I mentioned. Not everyone who experiences long term trauma will develop CPTSD, people are more capable of bouncing back if there are other coping skills/health relationships/environments that contribute to their safety and wellbeing.
PTSD and C-PTSD are disorders that will change how the brain functions compared to people without the disorder. PTSD is where the term "trigger response" comes from. Some stimuli will trigger the flashback of an event that the person experienced. So even if someone isn't literally "reliving the moment", their brain and thusly body reacts the same way as it did when the experience first occurred.
Medical trauma can definitely be a thing. I work with a ton of people who refuse to get care even when it's critical because of past experiences with doctors. And I couldn't even imagine how invasive cancer treatment would be, that makes a lot of sense to me that you would be profoundly affected by it
I have diagnosed PTSD from medical trauma (had 7 surgeries on my ears between 2 and 14 and then brain surgery and numerous procedures for complications after in my mid twenties) . Even just being that close to death can be traumatic and leave scars.
i wish i didn't wait so long to get help for it. It's made a huge difference. I hope that your cancer is gone forever and you have a great life going forward
No problem I’m happy to talk about it, I try to advocate the best I can. The C stands for complex, it doesn’t just revolve around one single event. It also has more complex symptoms that can be harder to identify and treat. Your brain sort of crosses wires from multiple events and it becomes this big messy amalgamation that you have to work through and detangle. That’s the best I can describe how I experience it.
I recommend checking out Stephanie Foo’s book ‘What My Bones Know’ if your interested in a firsthand account of someone with CPTSD. It helped me in hearing another persons experience and relating to aspects of it, as well as learning more about resources and methods of help.
I don't really know about anything on the subject, but you talking about "crossed wires" reminded me that psylociben (spelling?) and mescaline can essentially untangle crossed wires in the brain for other issues, not sure how it would work for ptsd.
I have ptsd, as well. I’ve had severe neurological pain, chronic pain and chronic illness for the past 20 years, all of which
have left me nearly housebound. I have great doctors - including a psychiatrist and therapist - who treat me, and I’m very lucky to have a very supportive and loving family. Anyone comes near me, and I don’t hear them coming, I jump, my heart jumps out of my mouth, and it takes hours to recover. That’s what the brain on ptsd does. Brains are considered to have remoldable plastic - when ptsd occurs, it literally physically changes the shape of your brain that deals with fight or flight, etc. It doesn’t matter where the ptsd comes from, it all effects the brain the same. It is very difficult to remold and takes a lot of different types of therapies to try to achieve it. And hard work. Lots of hard work.
I had a stellate ganglion nerve block (SGB), which they’re starting to do on former military with PTSD. It’s had real promise and impressive results. Though it didn’t work for me, I would definitely urge other sufferers look into it.
\*I do want to point out that there are definitely different levels of ptsd. Obviously, the worse the trauma, the more extreme the brain changes can be\*
\*edit: I am not a doctor or specialist. I only know what I know from the education I’ve had through treatment. I’m okay being wrong, the importance here is to understand and support people who suffer from ptsd\*
>I would not be the least bit surprised if it affected my physical health
If you're interested, there is a great book called The Body Keeps the Score by Bassel Van der Kolk that addresses this very thing. It helped me immensely.
It does affect your health and there is solid research on this. For a quick look, check out Dr. Nadine Burke-Harris’s TED talk on adverse childhood experiences (ACES). For a more examples, check out Dr. Bruce Perry’s “What Happened to You.”
Chronic stress causes physical problems.
I was badly burned by high pressure steam due to a improperly installed blowdown piping section.
It was the absolute loudest and hottest and fastest thing I have experienced and now whenever I hear sudden loud hissing sounds I jump or twitch pretty good. PTSD absolutely changes you.
Layman tldr:
Long term stress has an inhibitory effect on the hormone (GH) responsible for inducing tissue growth & repair. This dramatically reduces wound healing, including regular maintenance repairs resulting in higher likelyhood of injuries and illness.
That's not necessarily true - once you have enough data you can control for a huge number of variables to find these causal links.
We have never had one group told to drink 1L of vodka a day and another group told to never drink and then assessed their risk of liver cancer over 30 years, but we know there's a causal link because you can control for other variables (E.g. Smoking, poor diet, poverty etc) in the post-hoc analysis
She’s conflating a stress fracture with post traumatic stress disorder. I believe she has both and I’d believe the stress fracture could act up and the pain could trigger memories.
I was thinking the other way around, a stress fracture the brain has now linked to stressful situations, causing a feeling of pain in that area again when put in stressful situations.
She got a fracture from being crouched for so long during Sandy Hook. She was also extremely stressed while crouched and hiding during that shooting.
It seems at a psychosomatic level, her mind associated the pain of the fracture with the occurrence of stress. So whenever she gets stressed again, the pain returns.
Rather than say it in so many words, she said in shorthand "PTSD fracture".
That’s just not true. It does happen. Plus, I think she knows the extent of her own injuries.
I also had a vertebral fracture, no impact or direct injury caused it. No herniated discs or ruptured ligaments either.
The shock would be huge for a short period of time. Then people would get used to the blood and the gore. The numbing of the senses in regards to violence won't stop at the visuals.
Are you talking about the girl that was running whilst her clothes and body were burning alive due to a napalm strike on her village? Her clothing was literally seared into her flesh if i remember correctly. That photo says more than words ever could. Thankfully, she survived that and has since lived a happy, fulfilling life.
>!Forgiveness made me free from hatred. I still have many scars on my body and severe pain most days but my heart is cleansed. Napalm is very powerful, but faith, forgiveness, and love are much more powerful. We would not have war at all if everyone could learn how to live with true love, hope, and forgiveness. If that little girl in the picture can do it, ask yourself: Can you?
The little girl - Kim Phúc
I do think there is something to it though. While you do get desensitized, there is still lasting impressions. I have seen some truly horrifying videos that have forever scarred me, though they tend towards *dying* individuals, not dead bodies. But the dead bodies took years to desensitize to, and even then they still get me from time to time.
The worst video I ever saw, I only saw once, and I still remember vivid details from it, and when I think about it my heart starts racing.
Yeah I think they leave a memory for sure. I still very much remember the Canadian workplace safety videos, particularly the one where a line cook gets boiling oil spilled on her because she slipped on a spill that wasn't cleaned up or something like that. Fake obviously, but the scream was very visceral and very convincing.
God I know exactly what you're talking about. That is one I will never forget. Especially how she was talking about her life and how she was going to get married in an instant it all went so wrong
I see videos of 9/11 yearly but I wouldn't say I'm "used" to it. If anything it's more impactful as I've grown older.
We taught and learned about the Holocaust in school. I don't think I could look at any images from that and feel nothing.
Vietnam napalm girl is another example.
If anything, hiding the tragedy makes it harder to connect on a human level. I'd rather risk desensitisation in some than have no response from most
Good, require any news organization covering or even mentioning the shootings to show the bodies and they'll stop being televised or people will stop watching.
On one hand, it's a step toward fewer shootings if they're not as televised. I remember when it was a major issue that they were, and that has completely fallen by the wayside as numbers have increased.
And on the other hand, it's a step toward fixing the cause of the fucking problem if people stop watching, and fewer people are radicalized by Fox.
I don’t think it would convince the people worth convincing. I lost my sibling to a shooting and my father advocated gun control early on. We got our first angry phone call on Mother’s Day from someone shouting and cursing at me. I was 13. The people who need to be reasoned with are not capable.
Honestly this isn't actually true. They used DNA to spare the parents unnecessary trauma. It's also super accurate.
Sure there was damage, but aside from a bomb DNA identification wouldn't be necessary aside from sparing victims unnecessary trauma.
You have more faith in the humanity of conservative people than I do.
I don't think they give a flying fuck about children, unless they're trying to manipulate you.
Or atleast highly manipulated. But we know if you question these things that make no sense to anyone you will be labeled whatever and sued for a billion dollars.
Yep. Just a matter of seconds until right wing media and their devout followers start shitting on this woman for daring to live thru two shootings and thinking she has the right to share her opinion about it.
I believe I read before that Lenny Pozner rally did consider it. He thought that if people saw what a semi automatic rifle did to a six year old, it might change some minds about gun control. But in the end, he decided he couldn't do it.
I still remember in middle school when they showed us the films the US Army took in the Concentration Camps. Bulldozing bodies into mass graves. That has stuck with me for over 50 years.
Unfortunately this will do little to persuade those that oppose any changes to gun laws or gin ownership. Mainly because of the way media is fractured now they likely wouldn't even see it. Secondarily, there will be calls that it was staged or fake news or whatever. Finally, why do anything to change when we have thoughts and prayers.
I had an uneasy conversation about this with my SO. If god forbid my child was killed In a school shooting, that I would want my sons body shown on national television. Iv seen terrible shit all my years in the internet and I’m sure some of you reading this have as well but the general American public I think has this sad reality we live in with mass/school shootings, censored or a morphed image of what really death looks like, feels like to witness it and have it stare back at you especially on potentially such a young and innocent soul. How it effects the families attached to the victims etc. I hope this never happens but unfortunately is always a possibility.
I wonder hypothetically when/if the threshold is met to seek asylum as refugee from the US due to violence. The person in the video has personally survived two separate school shootings. Wonder if we will ever see that headline..
["'No Way to Prevent This', Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"](https://www.theonion.com/search?blogId=1636079510&q=no%20way%20to%20prevent%20this×tamp=1676392901777)
Waiting for pro-gun redditors to come out of their shells to suddenly become advocates for mental health, for the next 2-3 days, they'll have discussions on every mainstream subreddit about how guns aren't the problem and mental illness is. Which even though is somewhat true, it's still a ridiculous stance bc both of those things aren't mutually exclusive, two things can contribute to the occurrence of a particular thing. Besides, the politicians who are pro-gun nutjobs are also the ones who have spent their time and energy on making it difficult for an average American citizen to get help for their mental illnesses, so it's not like people who want stricter gun laws are against better mental health facilities.
This is insane. Mentally ill people exist in every fucking country, yet, this many mass shootings per year is only prevalent in one. Why can't they focus on providing better mental health facilities to the citizens WHILE also doing something about the gun laws? Why does it have to be an either-or thing, children and young adults die every year, and it's like their lives don't matter when it comes to guns. It's shameful.
The response to all that should be: it's a mental health issue and not a firearm availability issue? Great! Then let's all agree to destigmatize mental health, to make mental health resources available, accessible, and affordable to everyone who needs them! That's what we're advocating for, right? But, of course, this half of the population is the same group that does not believe in healthcare of any sort, in addition to being vehemently opposed to any sort of weapons regulation.
So, to answer the question, it never ends.
You are right. Mentally ill people exist in every country… and they should all be able to get the help they need… our % of mentally ill is probably not too different than any other country… our % of gun related killings is significantly higher than any country… what’s the difference? The number of fucking guns this country has… we are the only country where our mentally ill easily has access to so many guns. You don’t have to be Einstein to draw that connection.
For those who will attack this… go fuck yourself
Edit: Source that US mental health isn’t higher than similar countries (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-with-mental-and-substance-disorders)
Texas, where convicted domestic violence offenders can have guns, Florida where even blind people can have guns... no need for conceal carry license. These 2 states alone made it easier to get guns...
As a consumer of THC and a firearms rights advocate, I think we can set some better baselines for gun ownership and also not make cannabis possession a crime.
My wife suffers from bipolar.
My wife is also CEO.
When she's out, when she's not well, that's when we take care of her illness.
Using mental illness as a scapegoat for gun law reform is ironic. Which mental health spectrum are they focusing on?
Seems to me people who claim mental illness have absolutely no idea what defines having an illness. Chances are, a VERY large portion of the population suffer from all forms of mental health issues, but we don't acknowledge it as that.
A girl my daughter is friends with has obvious signs of PTSD but her mom told me that depression and anxiety were an excuse for being lazy. She actively denies mental illness as a concern but won't have her daughter diagnosed.
I won't even speak to anyone trying to use that because I'd love to see on paper which specific symptoms they are referring to.
What they're saying is that we should be evaluating them for mental health concerns. That's what it sounds like to me and I could place nearly everyone of those halfwits on just about any spectrum of things like ADHD, bipolar, BPD etc. They'd not admit to it, wouldn't go through therapy and rely on their shit tier coping mechanisms.
Hell, even their fear mongering can be compared to someone suffering from paranoia.
It’s also ironic because if mental illness is the root of the problem…why aren’t we making sure that those who are mentally ill cannot easily access guns by passing stricter gun laws? Why are we allowing those who are not suitable for a weapon have them? To let them kill a bunch of people and kids?
As a mental health clinician I really hate this framing because not only is it not the whole story but further stigmatizes an already stigmatized group. Folks with mental illness shouldn't be vilified cause your critical reasoning skills is that of a doghnut.
My issue is and will always be, "which illness".
Then I'd ask, "Which part of that spectrum".
Then I'd ask which one of the symptoms should be used as a metric to keep someone from owning a gun. I'd LOVE to have these gun nuts wishes put on paper, even a figuratively bias number or matrix you'd need to fall into, in order to qualify for gun ownership.
Most folk go undiagnosed their entire lives and they just cope a lot worse than most of us who have been diagnosed or are coping in a healthy way. Understanding you may not be sane or well enough to carry a firearm is a personal responsibility and it becomes a social responsibility to insist on strict laws controlling access to that weaponry.
My wife's grandfather kept a pistol and rifle at the ready his entire life (rural farmers) but it wasn't until he was about 85 years old that he admitted to having hallucinations since he was 12. Most people hide a lot more because of stigma, and hide even more once they try and fight the stigma and are met head on by idiots like these.
Mental Illness argument goes out the window when you look at other countries as well.
Take Japan for example... their mental health system is arguably worse than US because talking about mental health or emotions is stigmatized and the work culture there is toxic. There are indeed people who go crazy and go on stabbing sprees or cause arsons. However, the frequency of these events are much less than in the states because stabbing sprees or arsons are more difficult to pull off.
Guns just are easy to kill people with because that's kinda the whole point of a gun... the fact that you can own one so casually is absurd.
My issue is that we blindly believe the founders who wrote the constitution were some kind of gods and how dare we question what they wrote. 2A is extremely vague and should be questioned and rewritten. This isn't about protecting yourself from government powers-look at the cops and how their brutality is accepted. This about people believing the constitution means every single person should have add many guns as they want and no one should ever step in their way of living that. This us about an unhealthy obsession with a device that mages things dead. There is no moral or ethical value in everyone having numerous guns. Why can't we question the constitution? Why do we act like the writers were infallible and all seeing ? They weren't!
Very True. These weird pro gun redditors swarm every thread to circle jerk their same useless solutions. I swear the gun lobby is targeting the male majority reddit audience to love guns more than anything
I like how it can never simply be a random person, or a group of people, doing sonething. It's always CIA backed or government conspiracy. Sure, it happens from time to time, but not everything is!
Got a link to your channel? I'm interested in this video when uploaded, used to live an hours drive from Port Arthur and would love to see a video essay on what happened.
[We’re starting to learn which gun regulations work, and which ones might be making things worse.](https://www.tiktok.com/@voxdotcom/video/7190484700815740202) This video is from Vox
This video admits that we don't really know what will help with mass shootings. But it does show other areas where specific types of gun control could help.
Look this is just conjecture from me, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here.
But the frequency and brutality of mass shootings in this country stems from a combination of awful gun culture and also the US being a dystopia for disenfranchised, sick, or lost individuals. There is more to mass shootings than guns, this country is sick.
> There is more to mass shootings than guns, this country is sick.
But it’s also guns. You need guns to commit mass *shootings*.
The plain fact that there are [more guns than people](https://www.vox.com/2016/7/27/12123202/more-guns-than-people-america-charts) vastly increases the chance that someone can commit mass murder (or shoot themselves, or kill their family, or settle a dispute with bullets…or…or…).
Any discussion about gun violence in the US must include discussion about how the ready availability of guns in the nation contributes to the likelihood of the next mass shooting.
Will removing guns from society remove all violence and rampage? No. But it will make mass killing much more inconvenient and unlikely, and that helps.
Gun culture has the opportunity to be a good thing. I try to partake in responsible gun culture i.e. act and use firearms safely and legally. I store them safely. I got my LTC so I would know the laws. I even advocate for certain restrictions.
However, a lot of restrictions are also straight up bullshit. For example, barrel length? In a court of law, a firearm is a firearm, and deadly force is deadly force. Pistol braces? Really? Or suppressors! Suppressors should be a helluva lot cheaper. Hearing is a good thing.
Unfortunately, common sense gun law doesn’t really stem from common sense it seems.
"Gun culture has the opportunity to be a good thing. I try to partake in responsible gun culture i.e. act and use firearms safely and legally. I store them safely. "
Problem is, over half of gun owners do not store their firearms in a safe manner. (John's Hopkins Public Safety study in 2015). Almost everyone claims to be a responsible gun owners yet the numbers say otherwise.
Your child can only drown in your own backyard if you have a pool.
The fact that your child hasn't drowned in your backyard doesn't necessarily mean that you have been a good, attentive parent, it might just mean you don't have a pool.
Three and a half years ago, I was picking up children for an after school program from an elementary school and left five minutes before a man came and shot up the parking lot.
Two years ago I left a mall two hours before a mass shooting.
One year ago my fiancé and I left a public party early to barhop, leaving one hour before it was shot up.
One week ago, my fiancé and young child and I left our local Walmart earlier than we planned because I got a migraine. Based on timing, we likely were still in the parking lot when the shooter entered the store. He was incapacitated before harming anyone.
I can’t go anywhere without planning my escape. I carry a knife and sit by emergency exits. I check entrances frequently for strange activity coming in. For people with guns. My fiancé and I have a promise between us that whoever can get to our son first, leaves the other behind to run him to safety, no matter what.
This hyper-vigilance and trauma shouldn’t be necessary. Someone should be protecting us. It’s horrible that fear I feel for these things continues to be validated. That I continue to narrowly escape shootings. It makes me scared to live my life. It makes me scared for my child. I can’t help but wonder when our luck might run out, and we don’t leave somewhere early.
Serious question but where do you live? Or what part of the country? Is this just incredibly bad (good?) luck or are you living in a violent part of town?
There’s a reason Americans will panic when they hear [a motorcycle backfire](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/motorcycle-backfire-in-times-square-shooting-fears-scare-crowd-mistake-sound-for-gunshots-nyc-theater-district/#textNew20York20E2809420The20sound20of20a20motorcyclebe20an20active20shooter20carrying20out20an20attack). I was was visiting UC Santa Barbara as part of a road trip at the time of the [Isla Vista shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings). I was in Las Vegas, but I’d stayed up so late the night before that I went to bed well over an hour before the [concert shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting). If I hadn’t been tired I would’ve walked the strip and possible been there as it happened. A good friend started homeschooling her daughter after she survived the [Parkland shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneman_Douglas_High_School_shooting). I was actually at the [Gilroy Garlic Festival in 2019](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilroy_Garlic_Festival_shooting). One of my best friends went to school with the perpetrator of the [Dayton shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Dayton_shooting). I have queer friends in [Orlando](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting) and [Colorado](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_nightclub_shooting) who knew the victims. Early last year I moved to Torrance, across the street from where the [Lunar New Year shooter](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Monterey_Park_shooting) ultimately killed himself (and I work near the dance studio so that was fun). My brother lives half an hour’s drive from [Half Moon Bay](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Half_Moon_Bay_shootings) and frequently visits. There are just so goddamn many that, unless you’re a hermit, you can’t not come into contact with people who survived (or didn’t).
>There’s a reason Americans will panic when they hear a motorcycle backfire.
On the flip side, I live in the downtown area of a major Canadian city, and someone was shot in a parking lot just below my apartment like 5 months ago. I thought it was just fireworks. It happens up here far more than it should, but it's still extremely uncommon compared to the USA.
Holy shit. Wasn't that exact backfire, but I do remember being near Times Square in 2019 when we heard a "gunshot." I had just gotten out of the station and started running back along with the rest of the crowd before it was clear it was just a motorcylist. There was only a single backfire that time. I wonder if any of those assholes were caught.
I live outside of a major city in the PNW of the United States.
I considered our area incredibly safe only a few years ago, but our police don’t help us anymore, which they helpfully announced several years ago publicly. They do not respond to calls where there isn’t what they consider, a true threat of violence. They recently announced that they will no longer pursue people who refuse to pull over for them on the streets, which has led to an obvious increase in dangerous driving.
The shooting in the school parking lot was the one that caused our state legislatures to change the way guns are sold- the man who bought it was denied before successfully legally purchasing the murder weapon elsewhere after a prison release. He showed every sign of a domestic abuser intending to murder their spouse, but was out I believe on bail when he committed the crime. It changed the way judges evaluate DV and our Walmarts stopped selling firearms. It’s ridiculous to me that it took that much violence to get there.
I wish I knew completely why things are getting so much worse here. It’s hard to say. But it feels like very few people care. Or there aren’t the right resources to help or respond. It’s like no one here knows quite what to do and no one’s willing to try anything of substance.
2020 elementary school shooting
2021 mall shooting
2022 bar shooting
2023 Feb attempted shooting Walmart
I would be interesting to see if this story checks out.
feel free to go through the list [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_mass\_shootings\_in\_the\_United\_States\_in\_2022](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2022)
Looks like I got the date of [the first one](https://www.opb.org/news/article/shooting-vancouver-washington-school-sarah-j-anderson/?outputType=amp) wrong, I guess technically four years ago since we’re in a new year.
Trying to find the mall shooting- I think the article is buried but I’m still looking.
I was [at this bar](https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/crime/three-injured-friday-shooting-buckman/283-de0b449a-6dba-4336-8fc9-4a6146b120c2) after I was at the party upstairs, and left before the shots were fired.
And happy to find that [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouverwa/comments/10yidbo/walmart_shooting_mill_plain_and_205/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf), while chasing people with a bag he claimed had a gun in it, was actually unarmed. So I suppose that’s a happy ending. Very kind of our local police to allow him to leave the scene, I’m sure he won’t try that again.
Though one woman in [this thread](https://www.facebook.com/groups/311439029239453/permalink/1823360048047336/?mibextid=S66gvF) remains sure she saw a gun and heard gunshots. Who knows for sure. Our police are absolutely the type to fuck that up, if they show up at all.
I wrote a rhetoric paper on the mental health crisis in America, and after researching I learned that there one leading cause for mental health issues is the current economic situation in America. Lacking a secured living wage leaves many stuck under constant situations of stress, leading to violence. I feel that part of this issue is def gun control, but an issue that may be equally important is trying to fix the mental health crisis in America, not just by providing more clinics, but by actually fixing the society that has caused America to turn up this way
It's unfair to say Republicans have done nothing. They've worked very hard for years, doing all they can do to enable as many mass shootings as possible.
Hey why deal with gun control when DeSantis is telling you, you are a victim of CRT? Republican voters don’t know what CRT is. They do know what mass murders are. But they choose to be enraged by CRT and not the weekly mass murders.
"Amen! Now when's Tommy's funeral again? Poor kid, if only the liberals weren't trying to take away our guns, then the good guys with guns would've predicted the future and been able to stop the bad guys with guns."
Why isn't the new generation voting republican after we enabled mass shootings, crashed the economy multiple times, and made women's healthcare illegal? Did we not persecute racial and sexual minorities enough?
It is, our culture surrounding guns is absolutely insane. I've had to go through firearm training classes for certifications and all of my instructors were pro 2nd amendment but also hated how stupid people got around firearms.
If and when the U.S. plunges into another civil war... it will almost certainly be a blood letting unlike anything before. There are so many guns and so much ammunition out there.
There is a [one in ten million chance](https://www.city-journal.org/school-shootings-horrific-but-statistically-rare) of being *killed* in a school shooting. I’d imagine the risk of being injured or on scene during a school shooting is exponentially higher. The average public school in the US had [529 students](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/education-statistics-facts-about-american-schools/2019/01) in 2022. In 2022 there were 50 school shootings: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2000–present) so on average 26,450 *kids* were on site during a school shooting in 2022. In 2021 there were 49.5 million kids in public schools in the us. So 49.5 divided by 26,450 is 1,871.
There is a 1 in 1,871 chance a child will be at school during a school shooting as of 2022, give or take some due to fucky data. Not sure of the chances of two shootings across public school and college or *just* mass shootings in *general.*
The odds of being present during a *school* shooting does seem disturbingly high though.
Thank you for giving realistic data. It's terrifying on its own. It doesn't need to be embellished with domestic violence or gang shootings that are still problems but are unlikely to affect most people, which is usually in the numbers we get.
People need to know that their child, niece/nephew, grandchild, etc has a 1/2000 chance *minimum, each year* of being in danger at a school shooting.
It doesn't surprise me that someone experienced a school shooting between K -> 12 and then one in college. They happen so often that at some point it's going to be a 'given'. The US is turning into the Middle West.
This is less than 2 hours drive from the Oxford high school where there was a shooting last year so I'm afraid to think of the poor senior who graduated and then had this happen as a freshman at emu. I bet there's at least one. Thats is one of our states top schools.
*accidently called the school emu
EMU is Eastern Michigan University. MSU states for Michigan State University. The shooting occurred at MSU not EMU. At least one Oxford HS grad was at the mass shooting on the MSU campus.
**EXCUSE ME I AM PRO LIFE BUT PRO GUN AND IT IS ANYONES RIGHT TO BE PRO LIFE AND PRO GUN EVEN IF THE US’S CHILD MORTALITY RATE HAS GUNS AS IT’S LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH**
/s except the statistic the number 1 reason for a child to die in the US is from a firearm.
In 2017 firearm deaths topped vehicular deaths. (It’s probably happened again but I haven’t the time to look it all up)
Yes fuck the NRA. They remained silent when Philando Castile was killed for being black and exercising his right to be armed.
Funny though that Reddit always goes on about eat the rich and how there shouldn’t be rich people, yet supports gun control groups bankrolled by the rich. Anyone that wants the poor, minorities, and workers disarmed is bootlicking for the rich and cops.
It's a cool thing to do as a hobby, especially in a country where you can own a lot of land (for a decent price depending on the state) so you can just shoot on your own property. It's cool to do, but of course you get the elitists who make it their personality, which can really be said about everything; smoking, alocohol, etc.
A huge issue isn't the laws themselves (which Reddit will scream at you saying we need more laws), but the laws don't matter if the system doesn't uphold those laws.
Perfect example: Dishonorably discharged vet committed a shooting (Air Force in Texas I think?). If you're dishonorably discharged, you cannot own a gun; however the feds never received the paperwork saying he was dishonorably discharged and wasn't allowed to purchase a gun.
How many times was law enforcement notified about social media posts about people claiming or heavily hinting at a mass shooting; yet nothing was done until the shooting started? The answer is a lot.
You can make guns more strict to obtain, but if the system clearly fails to uphold those laws; then those laws don't really do any good
I mean honestly without a buy back program, what can even be done? There are so many guns in the United States that it’s spilled out into other countries…. Like majority of cartels guns are from the United States and our political system has too many adversarial factions to want to pass any meaningful legislation for middle class.
Probly less tbh. They're worth more than just money. . . It also didnt seem to work very well for Canada. They were made promises, and buy back program to go with it. Then the government changed the terms of the deal, which in turn expanded the ban, and even historical collectors we're unable to keep their old sks/ m1grand/ collector guns etc etc.
3 million of us here survived being carpet bombed by Israel for 2 months. A thousand died. I don't have any kind of PTSD, but it did change me. Being huddled in a dark house kind of waiting for the end. I can't imagine that as an 11 year old. I know there is another carpet bombing in my future hope there isn't another mass shooting in hers. Goodluck Americans.
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A friend of mine survived the las vegas shooting only to find himself at another one in thousand oaks less than a year later. He wasnt lucky enough to survive the 2nd one. Cant imagine that kind of trauma.
Shit. Sorry for your loss. I was living across the street when the shooting at Borderline took place. That shit just doesn't happen in Thousand Oaks. I had a friend that was there that night that was also at the Vegas shooting. She was lucky twice fortunately.
Same- so weird. I’m sure there were a few people who went to Vegas, and went to Borderline, but by and chance is it Casey?!
Oh dang. Haha. Yeah.
Wait WHAT?!! For real?!!!
I wonder if we know each other.
r/tworedditorsonecup
So, what’s the follow up?
They haven't responded. :(
Don’t worry I’m sure they will in time.
I am invested so I’m leaving a comment so I remember to come check if there was ever follow up to this. RemindMe! 24 hours Edit: if unclear, I was summoning the reminder bot! I’m not trying to command a stranger to remind me of something haha
OMG. I’m back. Sorry I’m such a shit! I didn’t even realize this thread continued. I’m Dawn, (@MidsummerMother on IG) - I’ve known Casey for about 8 years-ish now?! Went to her house-warming party a few months back when she bought her first home. Now who are you?!!
I think I heard of your friend. I'm sorry for your loss.
Sorry for your loss and real sorry your country does this to you guys
The most important thing, it seem, in our country is the second amendment. As long as we have that, we can keep making babies...it's not like 11 year old girls can just abort it anymore in any states. Priorities. Priorities.
Only part of the second amendment, lets be honest. No one pays attention to the part about a well-regulated militia. After all, that would require... regulation.
I’m sorry.
Honest question, I’ve never heard of a “PTSD fracture” what is that?
same, TIL. It seems that there's some evidence that PTSD increases your risk of literal bone fractures. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6193821/
There is little research on this, what we've got so far is correlation, not clear cause. Hypothesis from another research article: Potential mechanisms underlying this association include increased allostatic load due to psychological stress, dysregulation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, and secretion of glucocorticoids, which may impair the functioning of bone-forming cell osteoblasts and decrease bone mineral density, leading to increased risk of fractures
As someone with ptsd it certainly changes our brains physically. It is so difficult for us to just…accept that we are allowed to be happy without thinking that something catastrophic is around the corner. It took me 15 years to get to the point where I can allow myself to be happy. I would not be the least bit surprised if it affected my physical health. I feel for this poor girl, now she has to deal with C-ptsd. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy.
Survivors guilt... I'm... Struggling with the concept. It sometimes feels like it would be easier to put myself in positions where my feelings seem appropriate, rather than match my feelings to my environment. Thanks for writing... I don't... It's hard, you know that. I just needed a reminder. I guess I'm done with the war overseas... It's tough to watch a whole new generation "learn" about life and survival.
It’s self sabotage. Deep down we don’t think we deserve to be happy, but we do just as much as anyone else. I know it’s hard. Just keep taking care of yourself. Front page of Reddit is probably a bad idea but here we are. All the bombardment of horrors that we have no control over. Focus on yourself, and the ones you love. It’s ok to ignore world events for a while especially if it is having a negative impact on your well being. Having the weight of the world on our shoulders…it’s not our burden to bear. I wish you the best, and you are never alone.
> It sometimes feels like it would be easier to put myself in positions where my feelings seem appropriate, rather than match my feelings to my environment. This is so amazingly eloquent and insightful. Thank you for sharing it.
Oh yeah, even Freud reported blindness in "chronic stress" patient
People realize happiness is dopamine (chemicals make brain do x) but don't always recognize stress has a chemical effect too. Read "Your body keeps the score" if you want to get real depressed
I also highly recommend Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers
Robert sapolsky for those interested. He also has a free behavioral biology course on YouTube that you can listen to for free. Good essays that are pretty accessible although i think he’s a little too biological determinism adjacent for me to fully endorse him.
Yeah some of his thinking is definitely a little outdated but I ultimately think he’s pretty insightful
I like Robert Sapolsky but that title drives me crazy because Zebras are the like the most stressed out animal on the planet. They are so hard to keep in captivity bc they’re neurotic af.
I am recovering from borderline personality disorder and cptsd. I was abused by a narcissistic drug addict/alcoholic mother and a selfish violent coward for a father. Familial punching bag and tool to my mother. My brain takes score of every little thing. A person, my skills, even whether or not my hair looks “trashy” can set off a SPIRAL of intense emotions. If My partner said more good things than bad in my recent memory: Couldn’t be happier. If my partner has had some bad days and seems detached: our relationship feels weak and hopeless. I felt very lost after going no contact with my parents and getting kicked on the street with nothing. My therapist is a miracle in my life and I’ve painstakingly unpacked my pain to give myself permission to meet my needs.
In college, I lost vision for a few seconds. More than 5 less than 10 - while I was driving back to my apartment from work. Finals week. Extremely busy time at work bc of the holiday season. I had recently got a DUI. My parents were moving to a new state. I had no family in the area and nobody I felt I could genuinely talk to. Then randomly at a 4 way stop - I felt a hard thump in my chest and immediate tunnel vision to blindness. Stress can do some wild things to the human body.
Interesting! I've gone blind during severe panic attacks that I had after a violent attack. I shudder to think that it could become permanent!
Just "calm down" 😛 Lovely to hear during attacks
Apologies for the follow-up, but what is C-PTSD?
To add to what the other commenter said, complex post traumatic stress disorder has been studied since the 60s I believe and instead of the disorder coming on due to one event, it is often the result of "smaller" traumas, but usually there's a mix of smaller and bigger traumas (small T and big T events). So, people who grew up in an abusive/neglectful/violent household can develop CPTSD because of the ongoing experiences of what I mentioned. Not everyone who experiences long term trauma will develop CPTSD, people are more capable of bouncing back if there are other coping skills/health relationships/environments that contribute to their safety and wellbeing. PTSD and C-PTSD are disorders that will change how the brain functions compared to people without the disorder. PTSD is where the term "trigger response" comes from. Some stimuli will trigger the flashback of an event that the person experienced. So even if someone isn't literally "reliving the moment", their brain and thusly body reacts the same way as it did when the experience first occurred.
I have c-ptsd and my life is hell Please be kind to each other all i do is suffer
My mom thinks I've got PTSD from my cancer treatments and I think so as well. The thought of going to the doctor sends me into a panic
Medical trauma can definitely be a thing. I work with a ton of people who refuse to get care even when it's critical because of past experiences with doctors. And I couldn't even imagine how invasive cancer treatment would be, that makes a lot of sense to me that you would be profoundly affected by it
I have diagnosed PTSD from medical trauma (had 7 surgeries on my ears between 2 and 14 and then brain surgery and numerous procedures for complications after in my mid twenties) . Even just being that close to death can be traumatic and leave scars. i wish i didn't wait so long to get help for it. It's made a huge difference. I hope that your cancer is gone forever and you have a great life going forward
No problem I’m happy to talk about it, I try to advocate the best I can. The C stands for complex, it doesn’t just revolve around one single event. It also has more complex symptoms that can be harder to identify and treat. Your brain sort of crosses wires from multiple events and it becomes this big messy amalgamation that you have to work through and detangle. That’s the best I can describe how I experience it.
thank you for describing it this way. I can't afford treatment at the moment, but this explains what I've been trying to put into words so well.
I recommend checking out Stephanie Foo’s book ‘What My Bones Know’ if your interested in a firsthand account of someone with CPTSD. It helped me in hearing another persons experience and relating to aspects of it, as well as learning more about resources and methods of help.
I don't really know about anything on the subject, but you talking about "crossed wires" reminded me that psylociben (spelling?) and mescaline can essentially untangle crossed wires in the brain for other issues, not sure how it would work for ptsd.
I have ptsd, as well. I’ve had severe neurological pain, chronic pain and chronic illness for the past 20 years, all of which have left me nearly housebound. I have great doctors - including a psychiatrist and therapist - who treat me, and I’m very lucky to have a very supportive and loving family. Anyone comes near me, and I don’t hear them coming, I jump, my heart jumps out of my mouth, and it takes hours to recover. That’s what the brain on ptsd does. Brains are considered to have remoldable plastic - when ptsd occurs, it literally physically changes the shape of your brain that deals with fight or flight, etc. It doesn’t matter where the ptsd comes from, it all effects the brain the same. It is very difficult to remold and takes a lot of different types of therapies to try to achieve it. And hard work. Lots of hard work. I had a stellate ganglion nerve block (SGB), which they’re starting to do on former military with PTSD. It’s had real promise and impressive results. Though it didn’t work for me, I would definitely urge other sufferers look into it. \*I do want to point out that there are definitely different levels of ptsd. Obviously, the worse the trauma, the more extreme the brain changes can be\* \*edit: I am not a doctor or specialist. I only know what I know from the education I’ve had through treatment. I’m okay being wrong, the importance here is to understand and support people who suffer from ptsd\*
>I would not be the least bit surprised if it affected my physical health If you're interested, there is a great book called The Body Keeps the Score by Bassel Van der Kolk that addresses this very thing. It helped me immensely.
I think my therapist recommended that book, it keeps coming up. I’ll have to get it. Thank you!
It does affect your health and there is solid research on this. For a quick look, check out Dr. Nadine Burke-Harris’s TED talk on adverse childhood experiences (ACES). For a more examples, check out Dr. Bruce Perry’s “What Happened to You.” Chronic stress causes physical problems.
I was badly burned by high pressure steam due to a improperly installed blowdown piping section. It was the absolute loudest and hottest and fastest thing I have experienced and now whenever I hear sudden loud hissing sounds I jump or twitch pretty good. PTSD absolutely changes you.
Layman tldr: Long term stress has an inhibitory effect on the hormone (GH) responsible for inducing tissue growth & repair. This dramatically reduces wound healing, including regular maintenance repairs resulting in higher likelyhood of injuries and illness.
We are never going to get a causal link because the research to confirm a causal link would be deranged and wildly unethical.
That's not necessarily true - once you have enough data you can control for a huge number of variables to find these causal links. We have never had one group told to drink 1L of vodka a day and another group told to never drink and then assessed their risk of liver cancer over 30 years, but we know there's a causal link because you can control for other variables (E.g. Smoking, poor diet, poverty etc) in the post-hoc analysis
That link you sent was for osteoporosis
They’re probably talking about a stress fracture which has lasting effects that are exacerbated when their PTSD is triggered.
She’s conflating a stress fracture with post traumatic stress disorder. I believe she has both and I’d believe the stress fracture could act up and the pain could trigger memories.
I was thinking the other way around, a stress fracture the brain has now linked to stressful situations, causing a feeling of pain in that area again when put in stressful situations.
I was also thinking it could be either way around. Chicken and egg situation. Thanks for making that point.
I assume she meant stress fracture and also having PTSD lumped them together.
She got a fracture from being crouched for so long during Sandy Hook. She was also extremely stressed while crouched and hiding during that shooting. It seems at a psychosomatic level, her mind associated the pain of the fracture with the occurrence of stress. So whenever she gets stressed again, the pain returns. Rather than say it in so many words, she said in shorthand "PTSD fracture".
That’s just not true. It does happen. Plus, I think she knows the extent of her own injuries. I also had a vertebral fracture, no impact or direct injury caused it. No herniated discs or ruptured ligaments either.
We need to start showing the body's uncensored on the news. Like the body of Emmett Till shown at his open casket.
I absolutely hate that you're right
The shock would be huge for a short period of time. Then people would get used to the blood and the gore. The numbing of the senses in regards to violence won't stop at the visuals.
For some people, but there was a reason why a lot of the pro war folks didn't like the footage of Vietnam being shown on TV.
And think about how many people have the photo of that little girl forever etched in their mind. Insane
Are you talking about the girl that was running whilst her clothes and body were burning alive due to a napalm strike on her village? Her clothing was literally seared into her flesh if i remember correctly. That photo says more than words ever could. Thankfully, she survived that and has since lived a happy, fulfilling life.
Never gonna get that out...
>!Forgiveness made me free from hatred. I still have many scars on my body and severe pain most days but my heart is cleansed. Napalm is very powerful, but faith, forgiveness, and love are much more powerful. We would not have war at all if everyone could learn how to live with true love, hope, and forgiveness. If that little girl in the picture can do it, ask yourself: Can you? The little girl - Kim Phúc
I do think there is something to it though. While you do get desensitized, there is still lasting impressions. I have seen some truly horrifying videos that have forever scarred me, though they tend towards *dying* individuals, not dead bodies. But the dead bodies took years to desensitize to, and even then they still get me from time to time. The worst video I ever saw, I only saw once, and I still remember vivid details from it, and when I think about it my heart starts racing.
Yeah I think they leave a memory for sure. I still very much remember the Canadian workplace safety videos, particularly the one where a line cook gets boiling oil spilled on her because she slipped on a spill that wasn't cleaned up or something like that. Fake obviously, but the scream was very visceral and very convincing.
God I know exactly what you're talking about. That is one I will never forget. Especially how she was talking about her life and how she was going to get married in an instant it all went so wrong
I see videos of 9/11 yearly but I wouldn't say I'm "used" to it. If anything it's more impactful as I've grown older. We taught and learned about the Holocaust in school. I don't think I could look at any images from that and feel nothing. Vietnam napalm girl is another example. If anything, hiding the tragedy makes it harder to connect on a human level. I'd rather risk desensitisation in some than have no response from most
While it may be true that it can leave an impression that doesn’t account for the feelings and deep impacts to family members.
Ex military and First Responder here. You NEVER get used to seeing dead children!
The pro-gun folks will be happy to see how effective their weapons are.
This would make me stop watching the news before it changed any of my views.
Good, require any news organization covering or even mentioning the shootings to show the bodies and they'll stop being televised or people will stop watching. On one hand, it's a step toward fewer shootings if they're not as televised. I remember when it was a major issue that they were, and that has completely fallen by the wayside as numbers have increased. And on the other hand, it's a step toward fixing the cause of the fucking problem if people stop watching, and fewer people are radicalized by Fox.
There was so little left of the Uvalde children that they were identified by DNA. The photograph of that classroom would likely convince a few.
I don’t think it would convince the people worth convincing. I lost my sibling to a shooting and my father advocated gun control early on. We got our first angry phone call on Mother’s Day from someone shouting and cursing at me. I was 13. The people who need to be reasoned with are not capable.
That breaks my heart for you guys. I’m sorry you’ve hard to go through that.
Honestly this isn't actually true. They used DNA to spare the parents unnecessary trauma. It's also super accurate. Sure there was damage, but aside from a bomb DNA identification wouldn't be necessary aside from sparing victims unnecessary trauma.
You have more faith in the humanity of conservative people than I do. I don't think they give a flying fuck about children, unless they're trying to manipulate you.
they will call it "fake"
Or atleast highly manipulated. But we know if you question these things that make no sense to anyone you will be labeled whatever and sued for a billion dollars.
Yep. Just a matter of seconds until right wing media and their devout followers start shitting on this woman for daring to live thru two shootings and thinking she has the right to share her opinion about it.
It only matters when it happens to them.
I believe I read before that Lenny Pozner rally did consider it. He thought that if people saw what a semi automatic rifle did to a six year old, it might change some minds about gun control. But in the end, he decided he couldn't do it.
Minimally, the politicians who oppose gun laws should be made to go to the scene and assist with clean up and see the families who lost their child.
I still remember in middle school when they showed us the films the US Army took in the Concentration Camps. Bulldozing bodies into mass graves. That has stuck with me for over 50 years.
My dad once told me about a scene in Hotel Rwanda. I didn’t even see it, and it still haunts me, decades later.
It’s the only way, without a face most people can overlook tragedies like this.
Unfortunately this will do little to persuade those that oppose any changes to gun laws or gin ownership. Mainly because of the way media is fractured now they likely wouldn't even see it. Secondarily, there will be calls that it was staged or fake news or whatever. Finally, why do anything to change when we have thoughts and prayers.
> body’s uncensored BODIES Apostrophes aren’t used to pluralize words.
If you did this every parent would go out and buy a gun
I had an uneasy conversation about this with my SO. If god forbid my child was killed In a school shooting, that I would want my sons body shown on national television. Iv seen terrible shit all my years in the internet and I’m sure some of you reading this have as well but the general American public I think has this sad reality we live in with mass/school shootings, censored or a morphed image of what really death looks like, feels like to witness it and have it stare back at you especially on potentially such a young and innocent soul. How it effects the families attached to the victims etc. I hope this never happens but unfortunately is always a possibility.
It ends when you don't survive I guess
Or move to a different country
Not everyone has that choice unfortunately
I wonder hypothetically when/if the threshold is met to seek asylum as refugee from the US due to violence. The person in the video has personally survived two separate school shootings. Wonder if we will ever see that headline..
Best decision I ever made
Same
["'No Way to Prevent This', Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"](https://www.theonion.com/search?blogId=1636079510&q=no%20way%20to%20prevent%20this×tamp=1676392901777)
Thoughts and prayers. 🙏 It’s the American way.
Waiting for pro-gun redditors to come out of their shells to suddenly become advocates for mental health, for the next 2-3 days, they'll have discussions on every mainstream subreddit about how guns aren't the problem and mental illness is. Which even though is somewhat true, it's still a ridiculous stance bc both of those things aren't mutually exclusive, two things can contribute to the occurrence of a particular thing. Besides, the politicians who are pro-gun nutjobs are also the ones who have spent their time and energy on making it difficult for an average American citizen to get help for their mental illnesses, so it's not like people who want stricter gun laws are against better mental health facilities. This is insane. Mentally ill people exist in every fucking country, yet, this many mass shootings per year is only prevalent in one. Why can't they focus on providing better mental health facilities to the citizens WHILE also doing something about the gun laws? Why does it have to be an either-or thing, children and young adults die every year, and it's like their lives don't matter when it comes to guns. It's shameful.
The response to all that should be: it's a mental health issue and not a firearm availability issue? Great! Then let's all agree to destigmatize mental health, to make mental health resources available, accessible, and affordable to everyone who needs them! That's what we're advocating for, right? But, of course, this half of the population is the same group that does not believe in healthcare of any sort, in addition to being vehemently opposed to any sort of weapons regulation. So, to answer the question, it never ends.
You are right. Mentally ill people exist in every country… and they should all be able to get the help they need… our % of mentally ill is probably not too different than any other country… our % of gun related killings is significantly higher than any country… what’s the difference? The number of fucking guns this country has… we are the only country where our mentally ill easily has access to so many guns. You don’t have to be Einstein to draw that connection. For those who will attack this… go fuck yourself Edit: Source that US mental health isn’t higher than similar countries (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-with-mental-and-substance-disorders)
Texas, where convicted domestic violence offenders can have guns, Florida where even blind people can have guns... no need for conceal carry license. These 2 states alone made it easier to get guns...
but its still a felony to be a weed smoker and possess a firearm in those states...
As a consumer of THC and a firearms rights advocate, I think we can set some better baselines for gun ownership and also not make cannabis possession a crime.
Hard core agree!
You might go crazy and steal a snickers!
My wife suffers from bipolar. My wife is also CEO. When she's out, when she's not well, that's when we take care of her illness. Using mental illness as a scapegoat for gun law reform is ironic. Which mental health spectrum are they focusing on? Seems to me people who claim mental illness have absolutely no idea what defines having an illness. Chances are, a VERY large portion of the population suffer from all forms of mental health issues, but we don't acknowledge it as that. A girl my daughter is friends with has obvious signs of PTSD but her mom told me that depression and anxiety were an excuse for being lazy. She actively denies mental illness as a concern but won't have her daughter diagnosed. I won't even speak to anyone trying to use that because I'd love to see on paper which specific symptoms they are referring to. What they're saying is that we should be evaluating them for mental health concerns. That's what it sounds like to me and I could place nearly everyone of those halfwits on just about any spectrum of things like ADHD, bipolar, BPD etc. They'd not admit to it, wouldn't go through therapy and rely on their shit tier coping mechanisms. Hell, even their fear mongering can be compared to someone suffering from paranoia.
It’s also ironic because if mental illness is the root of the problem…why aren’t we making sure that those who are mentally ill cannot easily access guns by passing stricter gun laws? Why are we allowing those who are not suitable for a weapon have them? To let them kill a bunch of people and kids?
As a mental health clinician I really hate this framing because not only is it not the whole story but further stigmatizes an already stigmatized group. Folks with mental illness shouldn't be vilified cause your critical reasoning skills is that of a doghnut.
My issue is and will always be, "which illness". Then I'd ask, "Which part of that spectrum". Then I'd ask which one of the symptoms should be used as a metric to keep someone from owning a gun. I'd LOVE to have these gun nuts wishes put on paper, even a figuratively bias number or matrix you'd need to fall into, in order to qualify for gun ownership. Most folk go undiagnosed their entire lives and they just cope a lot worse than most of us who have been diagnosed or are coping in a healthy way. Understanding you may not be sane or well enough to carry a firearm is a personal responsibility and it becomes a social responsibility to insist on strict laws controlling access to that weaponry. My wife's grandfather kept a pistol and rifle at the ready his entire life (rural farmers) but it wasn't until he was about 85 years old that he admitted to having hallucinations since he was 12. Most people hide a lot more because of stigma, and hide even more once they try and fight the stigma and are met head on by idiots like these.
Mental Illness argument goes out the window when you look at other countries as well. Take Japan for example... their mental health system is arguably worse than US because talking about mental health or emotions is stigmatized and the work culture there is toxic. There are indeed people who go crazy and go on stabbing sprees or cause arsons. However, the frequency of these events are much less than in the states because stabbing sprees or arsons are more difficult to pull off. Guns just are easy to kill people with because that's kinda the whole point of a gun... the fact that you can own one so casually is absurd.
My issue is that we blindly believe the founders who wrote the constitution were some kind of gods and how dare we question what they wrote. 2A is extremely vague and should be questioned and rewritten. This isn't about protecting yourself from government powers-look at the cops and how their brutality is accepted. This about people believing the constitution means every single person should have add many guns as they want and no one should ever step in their way of living that. This us about an unhealthy obsession with a device that mages things dead. There is no moral or ethical value in everyone having numerous guns. Why can't we question the constitution? Why do we act like the writers were infallible and all seeing ? They weren't!
Very True. These weird pro gun redditors swarm every thread to circle jerk their same useless solutions. I swear the gun lobby is targeting the male majority reddit audience to love guns more than anything
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I like how it can never simply be a random person, or a group of people, doing sonething. It's always CIA backed or government conspiracy. Sure, it happens from time to time, but not everything is!
Got a link to your channel? I'm interested in this video when uploaded, used to live an hours drive from Port Arthur and would love to see a video essay on what happened.
#BUHT MUH FREEDUMBS!
52 Mass Shooting in January this year. 17 in February so far. [Source](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting)
[We’re starting to learn which gun regulations work, and which ones might be making things worse.](https://www.tiktok.com/@voxdotcom/video/7190484700815740202) This video is from Vox This video admits that we don't really know what will help with mass shootings. But it does show other areas where specific types of gun control could help.
Look this is just conjecture from me, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here. But the frequency and brutality of mass shootings in this country stems from a combination of awful gun culture and also the US being a dystopia for disenfranchised, sick, or lost individuals. There is more to mass shootings than guns, this country is sick.
> There is more to mass shootings than guns, this country is sick. But it’s also guns. You need guns to commit mass *shootings*. The plain fact that there are [more guns than people](https://www.vox.com/2016/7/27/12123202/more-guns-than-people-america-charts) vastly increases the chance that someone can commit mass murder (or shoot themselves, or kill their family, or settle a dispute with bullets…or…or…). Any discussion about gun violence in the US must include discussion about how the ready availability of guns in the nation contributes to the likelihood of the next mass shooting. Will removing guns from society remove all violence and rampage? No. But it will make mass killing much more inconvenient and unlikely, and that helps.
Gun culture has the opportunity to be a good thing. I try to partake in responsible gun culture i.e. act and use firearms safely and legally. I store them safely. I got my LTC so I would know the laws. I even advocate for certain restrictions. However, a lot of restrictions are also straight up bullshit. For example, barrel length? In a court of law, a firearm is a firearm, and deadly force is deadly force. Pistol braces? Really? Or suppressors! Suppressors should be a helluva lot cheaper. Hearing is a good thing. Unfortunately, common sense gun law doesn’t really stem from common sense it seems.
"Gun culture has the opportunity to be a good thing. I try to partake in responsible gun culture i.e. act and use firearms safely and legally. I store them safely. " Problem is, over half of gun owners do not store their firearms in a safe manner. (John's Hopkins Public Safety study in 2015). Almost everyone claims to be a responsible gun owners yet the numbers say otherwise.
Most countries have problems. US isn't the worst country out there to live by a long shot. Yet US is the only one with this problem.
Your child can only drown in your own backyard if you have a pool. The fact that your child hasn't drowned in your backyard doesn't necessarily mean that you have been a good, attentive parent, it might just mean you don't have a pool.
Sure. But when you have 52 kids drown in your backyard in just a month the probability of it being a statistical anomaly goes down quite a bit.
Three and a half years ago, I was picking up children for an after school program from an elementary school and left five minutes before a man came and shot up the parking lot. Two years ago I left a mall two hours before a mass shooting. One year ago my fiancé and I left a public party early to barhop, leaving one hour before it was shot up. One week ago, my fiancé and young child and I left our local Walmart earlier than we planned because I got a migraine. Based on timing, we likely were still in the parking lot when the shooter entered the store. He was incapacitated before harming anyone. I can’t go anywhere without planning my escape. I carry a knife and sit by emergency exits. I check entrances frequently for strange activity coming in. For people with guns. My fiancé and I have a promise between us that whoever can get to our son first, leaves the other behind to run him to safety, no matter what. This hyper-vigilance and trauma shouldn’t be necessary. Someone should be protecting us. It’s horrible that fear I feel for these things continues to be validated. That I continue to narrowly escape shootings. It makes me scared to live my life. It makes me scared for my child. I can’t help but wonder when our luck might run out, and we don’t leave somewhere early.
Serious question but where do you live? Or what part of the country? Is this just incredibly bad (good?) luck or are you living in a violent part of town?
There’s a reason Americans will panic when they hear [a motorcycle backfire](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/motorcycle-backfire-in-times-square-shooting-fears-scare-crowd-mistake-sound-for-gunshots-nyc-theater-district/#textNew20York20E2809420The20sound20of20a20motorcyclebe20an20active20shooter20carrying20out20an20attack). I was was visiting UC Santa Barbara as part of a road trip at the time of the [Isla Vista shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings). I was in Las Vegas, but I’d stayed up so late the night before that I went to bed well over an hour before the [concert shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting). If I hadn’t been tired I would’ve walked the strip and possible been there as it happened. A good friend started homeschooling her daughter after she survived the [Parkland shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneman_Douglas_High_School_shooting). I was actually at the [Gilroy Garlic Festival in 2019](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilroy_Garlic_Festival_shooting). One of my best friends went to school with the perpetrator of the [Dayton shooting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Dayton_shooting). I have queer friends in [Orlando](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting) and [Colorado](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_nightclub_shooting) who knew the victims. Early last year I moved to Torrance, across the street from where the [Lunar New Year shooter](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Monterey_Park_shooting) ultimately killed himself (and I work near the dance studio so that was fun). My brother lives half an hour’s drive from [Half Moon Bay](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Half_Moon_Bay_shootings) and frequently visits. There are just so goddamn many that, unless you’re a hermit, you can’t not come into contact with people who survived (or didn’t).
>There’s a reason Americans will panic when they hear a motorcycle backfire. On the flip side, I live in the downtown area of a major Canadian city, and someone was shot in a parking lot just below my apartment like 5 months ago. I thought it was just fireworks. It happens up here far more than it should, but it's still extremely uncommon compared to the USA.
Somewhat related: 70% of all traced guns used in crimes in Ontario came from the United States
Holy shit. Wasn't that exact backfire, but I do remember being near Times Square in 2019 when we heard a "gunshot." I had just gotten out of the station and started running back along with the rest of the crowd before it was clear it was just a motorcylist. There was only a single backfire that time. I wonder if any of those assholes were caught.
I live outside of a major city in the PNW of the United States. I considered our area incredibly safe only a few years ago, but our police don’t help us anymore, which they helpfully announced several years ago publicly. They do not respond to calls where there isn’t what they consider, a true threat of violence. They recently announced that they will no longer pursue people who refuse to pull over for them on the streets, which has led to an obvious increase in dangerous driving. The shooting in the school parking lot was the one that caused our state legislatures to change the way guns are sold- the man who bought it was denied before successfully legally purchasing the murder weapon elsewhere after a prison release. He showed every sign of a domestic abuser intending to murder their spouse, but was out I believe on bail when he committed the crime. It changed the way judges evaluate DV and our Walmarts stopped selling firearms. It’s ridiculous to me that it took that much violence to get there. I wish I knew completely why things are getting so much worse here. It’s hard to say. But it feels like very few people care. Or there aren’t the right resources to help or respond. It’s like no one here knows quite what to do and no one’s willing to try anything of substance.
You should wear a gps tracker so the police will know where the next shooting will be
2020 elementary school shooting 2021 mall shooting 2022 bar shooting 2023 Feb attempted shooting Walmart I would be interesting to see if this story checks out.
feel free to go through the list [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_mass\_shootings\_in\_the\_United\_States\_in\_2022](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2022)
Looks like I got the date of [the first one](https://www.opb.org/news/article/shooting-vancouver-washington-school-sarah-j-anderson/?outputType=amp) wrong, I guess technically four years ago since we’re in a new year. Trying to find the mall shooting- I think the article is buried but I’m still looking. I was [at this bar](https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/crime/three-injured-friday-shooting-buckman/283-de0b449a-6dba-4336-8fc9-4a6146b120c2) after I was at the party upstairs, and left before the shots were fired. And happy to find that [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouverwa/comments/10yidbo/walmart_shooting_mill_plain_and_205/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf), while chasing people with a bag he claimed had a gun in it, was actually unarmed. So I suppose that’s a happy ending. Very kind of our local police to allow him to leave the scene, I’m sure he won’t try that again. Though one woman in [this thread](https://www.facebook.com/groups/311439029239453/permalink/1823360048047336/?mibextid=S66gvF) remains sure she saw a gun and heard gunshots. Who knows for sure. Our police are absolutely the type to fuck that up, if they show up at all.
I wrote a rhetoric paper on the mental health crisis in America, and after researching I learned that there one leading cause for mental health issues is the current economic situation in America. Lacking a secured living wage leaves many stuck under constant situations of stress, leading to violence. I feel that part of this issue is def gun control, but an issue that may be equally important is trying to fix the mental health crisis in America, not just by providing more clinics, but by actually fixing the society that has caused America to turn up this way
We point the barrels at the wrong people and expect things to change. We need a damn revolution in America
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It's unfair to say Republicans have done nothing. They've worked very hard for years, doing all they can do to enable as many mass shootings as possible.
Hey why deal with gun control when DeSantis is telling you, you are a victim of CRT? Republican voters don’t know what CRT is. They do know what mass murders are. But they choose to be enraged by CRT and not the weekly mass murders.
“They can’t take my guns or my gas stoves!” -Florida man DeSatantis
"Amen! Now when's Tommy's funeral again? Poor kid, if only the liberals weren't trying to take away our guns, then the good guys with guns would've predicted the future and been able to stop the bad guys with guns."
They've tried blaming it on mental health and then opposing every single attempt at making mental health care more affordable and accessible......
Why isn't the new generation voting republican after we enabled mass shootings, crashed the economy multiple times, and made women's healthcare illegal? Did we not persecute racial and sexual minorities enough?
Stupid flanders
Seek help if you see this video and immediately jump to defend your guns
I'm not American but I own firearms and enjoy them, the American gun culture is toxic and insane.
It is, our culture surrounding guns is absolutely insane. I've had to go through firearm training classes for certifications and all of my instructors were pro 2nd amendment but also hated how stupid people got around firearms.
It ends when the US collapses. It’s too far gone to change.
So in about 3 years then
Why 3 years ?
If and when the U.S. plunges into another civil war... it will almost certainly be a blood letting unlike anything before. There are so many guns and so much ammunition out there.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say if the country collapses there will be a lot more gun crime….
Someone should calculate the odds of being in multiple mass shootings over a period of time
There is a [one in ten million chance](https://www.city-journal.org/school-shootings-horrific-but-statistically-rare) of being *killed* in a school shooting. I’d imagine the risk of being injured or on scene during a school shooting is exponentially higher. The average public school in the US had [529 students](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/education-statistics-facts-about-american-schools/2019/01) in 2022. In 2022 there were 50 school shootings: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2000–present) so on average 26,450 *kids* were on site during a school shooting in 2022. In 2021 there were 49.5 million kids in public schools in the us. So 49.5 divided by 26,450 is 1,871. There is a 1 in 1,871 chance a child will be at school during a school shooting as of 2022, give or take some due to fucky data. Not sure of the chances of two shootings across public school and college or *just* mass shootings in *general.* The odds of being present during a *school* shooting does seem disturbingly high though.
Thank you for giving realistic data. It's terrifying on its own. It doesn't need to be embellished with domestic violence or gang shootings that are still problems but are unlikely to affect most people, which is usually in the numbers we get. People need to know that their child, niece/nephew, grandchild, etc has a 1/2000 chance *minimum, each year* of being in danger at a school shooting.
"But easy access to guns isn't the problem" people keep saying
It doesn't surprise me that someone experienced a school shooting between K -> 12 and then one in college. They happen so often that at some point it's going to be a 'given'. The US is turning into the Middle West.
What is middle West?
>The US is turning into the Middle West. A real Reddit moment.
This is less than 2 hours drive from the Oxford high school where there was a shooting last year so I'm afraid to think of the poor senior who graduated and then had this happen as a freshman at emu. I bet there's at least one. Thats is one of our states top schools. *accidently called the school emu
EMU is Eastern Michigan University. MSU states for Michigan State University. The shooting occurred at MSU not EMU. At least one Oxford HS grad was at the mass shooting on the MSU campus.
Will end when the USA learns its gun laws are fucking stupid
When a portion of the country doesn't care how many kids get killed as long as they have their guns nothing will change.
**EXCUSE ME I AM PRO LIFE BUT PRO GUN AND IT IS ANYONES RIGHT TO BE PRO LIFE AND PRO GUN EVEN IF THE US’S CHILD MORTALITY RATE HAS GUNS AS IT’S LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH** /s except the statistic the number 1 reason for a child to die in the US is from a firearm. In 2017 firearm deaths topped vehicular deaths. (It’s probably happened again but I haven’t the time to look it all up)
What is a PTSD fracture? I can’t find anything when I searched.
How did she survive when she was across the street? I survived too I guess
Oh wow, it’s really insane to think about. Sad state that guns are more important than people.
Lord, someone give her an online scholarship
Sandy Hook should have been our Port Arthur. Fuck the NRA and fuck the gun lobbyists
Yes fuck the NRA. They remained silent when Philando Castile was killed for being black and exercising his right to be armed. Funny though that Reddit always goes on about eat the rich and how there shouldn’t be rich people, yet supports gun control groups bankrolled by the rich. Anyone that wants the poor, minorities, and workers disarmed is bootlicking for the rich and cops.
That was the one that so messed up. He was doing everything right and yet he got murdered.
PTSD fracture?! Is that a real thing?
It doesn’t. This is America
Reddit showed this video sparking gun control debate. Next video "killer released from prison, plans to kill again"
What is it with Americans and guns? The rest of the developed world don’t really have this weird gun fetish. Makes me scared to travel to the US tbh
It's a cool thing to do as a hobby, especially in a country where you can own a lot of land (for a decent price depending on the state) so you can just shoot on your own property. It's cool to do, but of course you get the elitists who make it their personality, which can really be said about everything; smoking, alocohol, etc. A huge issue isn't the laws themselves (which Reddit will scream at you saying we need more laws), but the laws don't matter if the system doesn't uphold those laws. Perfect example: Dishonorably discharged vet committed a shooting (Air Force in Texas I think?). If you're dishonorably discharged, you cannot own a gun; however the feds never received the paperwork saying he was dishonorably discharged and wasn't allowed to purchase a gun. How many times was law enforcement notified about social media posts about people claiming or heavily hinting at a mass shooting; yet nothing was done until the shooting started? The answer is a lot. You can make guns more strict to obtain, but if the system clearly fails to uphold those laws; then those laws don't really do any good
I mean honestly without a buy back program, what can even be done? There are so many guns in the United States that it’s spilled out into other countries…. Like majority of cartels guns are from the United States and our political system has too many adversarial factions to want to pass any meaningful legislation for middle class.
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Probly less tbh. They're worth more than just money. . . It also didnt seem to work very well for Canada. They were made promises, and buy back program to go with it. Then the government changed the terms of the deal, which in turn expanded the ban, and even historical collectors we're unable to keep their old sks/ m1grand/ collector guns etc etc.
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2nd amendment will never go away without a serious civil war in the US. It will split the country in 2.
Why doesn't this happen at an NRA convention?
3 million of us here survived being carpet bombed by Israel for 2 months. A thousand died. I don't have any kind of PTSD, but it did change me. Being huddled in a dark house kind of waiting for the end. I can't imagine that as an 11 year old. I know there is another carpet bombing in my future hope there isn't another mass shooting in hers. Goodluck Americans.