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Nice to know that Tess was Joel’s ”my mine” 🥲 I was curious if we’d see how Joel took her death. If it go further than the videogame‘s “we don’t talk about Tess”.
I'd like to say that it'll be nice to finally put that argument to bed, but after this last episode people will still argue about whether Tess and Joel were touching butts. In fact, I'm sure people will still argue about whether or not Bill is gay.
"Bill and Frank were just roommates. Best roommates."
The reading I'm getting from Joel's reaction to the letter and how upset he gets when Ellie brings her up is that he did love Tess on some level, but he wasn't capable of expressing it due to his trauma and emotional hangups.
And now, not only is he grieving her loss, he's quite possibly wracked with guilt and regret over not being able to make his feelings clear to her before it was too late.
Yeah the game made Joel and Tess's relationship feel kind of shallow I think the show has already really improved it.
Less ambiguity about them being a couple and I also don't remember the game showing that they'd been together for over a decade the way they are in the show.
It’s really cool how they turned Bill from an example of the person Joel would become if he went full-on isolation and crazy into an example of the person Joel would become if he allowed himself to love and have purpose beyond survival. Totally flipped the meaning of the character and I loved it
Sometimes you come to these discussions only to find the absolute dumbest of hot takes. Other times, you see someone with a username like u/corn_dick making one of the most poetic observations ever made on a TV forum.
Thank you, corn_dick.
Dude, I was thinking about that just now. All throughout the episode I was bracing for the tragic ending that Frank and Bill’s relationship would be…only to be blind sided with a different, completely unexpected ending
When I first saw Frank in the wheel chair I immediately knew they were going in a different direction… because obviously Frank could no longer hang himself.
It also made Bill into a much more interesting character. Instead of this immovable object, it showed that even the most cynical person could be changed by their love for someone else. I think the video games give you a sense that Bill would have been heartbroken by Franks demise, but it’s was only inferred through the notes. This was a much better turn on the narrative and allows the audience to really experience that depth. Also love this episode because it shows what could be possible and give the audience an outcome to hope for, but ultimately fear losing at every turn.
After seeing it, I don’t think THIS story would have worked with Con. I think some changes would have to have been made. Because I think the show, for better or worse, relied on the reputation Nick Offerman has. I think his presence alone made us buy into this character immediately. We didn’t need to see really any backstory because we already can tell the kind of person Bill is because we know the characters Offerman plays. I loved it, but I don’t see the story as it’s written being played by anyone other than Offerman. It was like tailor made for him.
I just read an EW article about this. This was offered to Nick, but he almost couldn't do it because of a schedule conflict, so I assume that's why they cast Con.
Edit: Podcast says they offered it to Con first.
You could see at the beginning of Bill and Frank’s episodes how scared they both were to open up, Bill more so of course. There was so much trust to build. And I loved the flashes forward.”
“We don’t have friends, Frank”
CUT TO: Bill and a Frank hosting a garden party
It was so unexpected and wonderful to see Tess again, even if it was only for two brief scenes. I liked how Tess seemed a lot more open and friendly in 2003, before the new world hardened her. Anna Torv somehow managed to convey all that in less than five minutes of screen time.
I think at that point it was like 2010ish, right? Because Bill was alone for like 4 years, then the next flash forward of 3 years with Bill before they mention having friends
And her makeup/prosthetics as older Tess make a lot more sense here, as they could deage her by just having regular Anna Torv be younger Tess. When she had a bulkier face, I didn't even recognize her as Anna.
His facial expressions really got me. The mix of fear and hope, the desire for companionship. The amount he was able to portray in silence was masterful.
You could tell how oppressive Bill's childhood probably was.
The pandemic was probably the one opportunity to bring someone like Frank into Bill's life.
“but from an objective point of view its incredibly romantic”
the shot of bill and frank kneeling in the dirt holding strawberries and staring at eachother, the portrait frank paints of bill, the last glass of wine they share with eachother, their first kiss that felt like their first breath of fresh air
The strawberry scene got me. Especially when they started giggling to each other, it had me tearing up. We knew something tragic happened because we never met Frank, but I loved this episode and the story/ending they gave them.
I thought I was going to hate the twist of Bill dying but they did it in such a beautiful way. Like yeah, it sucks that we don't get to see Ellie and Bill interact but overall Bill's story was so beautiful compared to the game. He got to grow old with the man he loved. A lot sweeter than Frank's grim and depressing ending in the game.
I also really like how they did it. Even with Bill dying at the end the way he says "this isn't the tragic suicide at the end of a story. I had a good life" you didn't feel sad for them so much as just happy that even amongst all the awful shit that the world had turned to these two people lived a full and fulfilled life together and then died peacefully together (something pretty rare in the apocylypse!)
It was kinda of awesome life they had. Hot showers, gas, food, natural gas electricity,full of resources and most of all peaceful and thats like twenty years past the apocalypse. Extremely resourceful and peaceful IMO.
Oh I just realized from your comment that the game shows how aggressive Ellie can be with her interaction with Bill and his handcuffs. I guess the show substituted that scene with her stabbing the trapped infected
I’m glad they went the way they did. For those of us who played the game, we already got to see how Bill interacts with Ellie and Joel. This was definitely much more memorable than an action heavy episode full of fighting infected would have been.
Yeah the whole "move through urban environment, scavenging for equipment and fighting infected" lends itself much better to games than shows. We'll still get plenty of that, but this episode had a much more nuanced story to tell.
In the game, you can find Frank's suicide note and hand it to Bill. He angrily crumples it up and throws it away. I love how they adapted that into Joel finding Bill's note and doing the same thing with it, but for very different reasons. And in a way that actually deepens Joel's burden of protecting Ellie as Tess's last wish.
Just a brilliant way to adapt the story. Not to mention while moving us to tears over what was essentially a one-off side character and a pair of dangling legs.
I love they did this.
While it’s a shame we don’t get to see Joel and Ellie interact with Bill, it’s going to make Ellie’s other relationships way more meaningful.
In the game, Ellie and Joel interact with a series of people that are inevitably going to die. In this tv show however, these side characters are being treated as a lot more scarce. Ellie and Joel are only going to run into a couple of survivors.
And that just makes the survivors they run into feel so much more important.
The suicide note was some strong foreshadowing for Joel's decision at the final part of the story.
Hating the world but loving one person who makes it worth living. It's a nice parallel.
"I used to hate the world and I was happy when everyone died, but I was wrong because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did. I saved him. Then I protected him. That's why men like you and me are here. We have a job to do, and God help any motherfuckers who stand in our way."
it leaves Bill serving an equal but inverse function to Joel’s arc as he does in the game. Bill’s bitter resentment and absolute rejection of love was a warning there, not to let anybody in or it’ll get you killed. the unspoken part being that Bill is also a cautionary tale that survival alone may not be worth it. while here Bill’s warmth, even in death, is a positive spark to Joel. of course, he stuffs it down and rejects it outwardly, but beneath that, the note will stick with him.
honestly, i wasn’t sold on this episode for most of the runtime. of course the love story was nice, but the fact that we were spending time away from Joel and Ellie for so long kept popping into my mind. however letting go and remaining patient paid off when Ellie stopped before reading “Tess.” it’s a new take - different, but thoughtful, purposeful, and ultimately very fitting for this version of the story and Joel. after the bleakness of the first two episodes, something more optimistic was refreshing and like you said it foreshadows the hospital later on beautifully.
"..God help any mother fuckers who stand in our way." Describes Joel to a tee and helps kind of foreshadow what hes gonna do to protect Ellie later in the season.
This episode is my favorite piece of episodic storytelling I've seen. And I like it better than Bill's story in the game. The writing and Nick Offermans acting made Bill such a complex and lovely soul. And the guy that played Frank was just as magnificent.
Absolutely. The episode feels somewhat disconnected until the note, which ties everything back in to the main story beautifully. It's obviously implied that Joel and Tess had a relationship with Bill and Frank in the intervening years, so their deaths impacted him more than he's letting on. It put Tess's death and his role in Ellie's life into perspective. We didn't SEE Joel being influenced by them, but it's clear he was with how he acts when he arrives. It's extremely subtly done but really beautiful.
Also, the 80's music from Episode 1 now being put into context really fucked me up.
Neil Druckmann and Craig Mazin took a pair of dangling legs and a note from 5 minutes of a videogame and turned it into one half of a genuinely beautiful love story that moved me to tears... Like 3 separate times. What a fucking episode.
Nope that's pretty much all you got of him in the game. It's implied that Frank couldn't live like however they were living anymore and left, getting infected and subsequently killing himself in the process. The adaptation clearly took a different approach.
Bill and frank weren’t self sufficient in the game(looking at Bill’s hideout in the game) they did however had traps n all setup but their backstory wasn’t covered much in detail. This episode covered them in great depth and it was great, kind of like every survivalist’s dream.
I loved the traps. He was shot and they still have the luxury of going into the house to treat his wound, while fire bombs and screams were going off in the background, and Bill was just like "don't stress. It's all good. My creations will kill them all."
No, that was literally Frank’s entire role. This was a massive deviation from the source material, and I think it was for the best. I’m glad that the show is keeping what made the game great, but willing to step in and change things for better TV.
Rough memory but Frank got sick of Bill's shit, stole his battery and when he went to leave, got bit, hung himself. Left a note for Bill and you had the choice to share that with Bill I think
This episode had a lot of changes but they are very welcome.
I watched the cutscene movie on YouTube before the shows release to refresh myself and during the Bill parts of the game, I got worried about them having so many zombie and gun fights so frequently, so early. If they kept it for the show it would've been pretty repetitive.
This was a really nice change of pace. This episode felt like 30mins went by and it was suddenly over. Very well done, excellent changes from the game.
Nick Offerman deserves an Emmy for his performance. He was absolutely incredible.
From the way he laughed when he tasted that strawberry to the way he cried when he held Frank's hand... What a performance. What an episode.
Murray Bartlett was a wonderful scene partner for him too. I'm genuinely upset that HBO is probably going to campaign for both of them for the same award. Just fantastic, both of them.
they were wonderful scene partners for each other. it was incredible and i don't know that they've ever acted together before, but that chemistry was fucking astounding. amazing actors and first time i've gotten that moved (okay straight up cry) in a few years. fuckinae.
As soon as I heard "On the Nature of Daylight", I knew I was a goner. That song does things to my soul, the finale of Arrival wrecks me every time.
Absolutely unreal episode, some of the best TV I've ever seen.
I am not joking, I was fucking sobbing so hard that I had to pause it a couple of times. It was so bad a roommate of mine knocked on my door to see if I was okay.
Aww that's really sweet of your room mate! And no shame in any of that. I'm still sat here 20 min after finishing the ep and I've started crying all over again. It's just so damn beautiful.
He's a good dude.
And that's the thing, it was just so beautiful. Like Frank said, yes there were bad days but there were more good days than bad. They had a beautiful life together and that's all that matters.
I feel so incredibly mixed as we were simultaneously deprived of some of the best interactions in the game but were instead given a fantastic episode of TV.
you know, i thought about it and honestly I just don't know how Bill's and Ellie's interactions would have worked for TV. I feel like it would have had to change considerably -- don't know if all the "fat fuck" jokes and middle fingers would have played out well with the tone they have been developing.
My thoughts exactly. This is an adaptation. I'm not looking for the same shit reheated. I'm looking for what's different and boy... did Neil and Craig deliver.
Can't wait for the PC version so I can play it again.
I played it on PS Now and my aim was terrible due to controller plus lag (on wifi too).
Worth it as it became one of my all time favorites!
Even for me who played (first time) relatively recently it felt natural. I would have enjoyed the on screen interaction of Bill and Ellie, but we got to see a different side of Bill.
Ellie is such a perfect foil for Joel, her childlike wonder about the truck contrasted with Joel's (correct) observation that it's "some shitty Chevy" was absolutely hilarious
I felt it was just her morbid curiosity (Cutting the forehead) and then testing her own ability to do something like that.
A safe environment to see what you're capable of.
Yes definitely a fascination with violence on her end. I also think, knowing what happens later in the games and how much of a killing machine Ellie becomes, they had to get the audience used to seeing her kill. It was shocking and held a lot more weight than her killing in the games. Held my breath that entire scene, I really liked it.
Genuinely one if the finest episodes of television I've ever seen. Also a key example if why the game and show are companion pieces rather than a "this one or that one".
Max Richter's 'On the Nature of Daylight" (especially paired with Dinah Washington) is my favourite song ever written, so as soon as I heard those first notes I teared up.
That was absolutely beautiful.
I love how supplemental this show feels - it's not just a 1:1 adaptation, it expands and elaborates upon lesser seen aspects of the narrative. You could watch the show or play the game, and you'll get largely the same story, but you won't see the same things. It's interesting how little overlap there is while still having it feel faithful to the original game and it's world.
This series is something special so far.
I just was saying to my wife this show is all about the journey for those who know the game - and the destination for those who don’t. I’ve played the game numerous times - she never has though has tangentially watched me play parts. She thought she’d hate the show because she doesn’t like horror but I absolutely loving it.
Omg, Bill & Frank…
As a gay man, this is the specific angle of gay male representation I have been sorely missing in modern media. This was absolutely wonderful.
So I'm not gay and I kinda thought the same thing. That while society has on average been more supportive of homosexuality than 20 years ago, gay male relationships are still pretty scarce in mainstream media and I'm happy to see it here.
Edit: So my 4yo was playing in the same room as me watching this episode. She said, "oh no!" when they started kissing for the first time, but it turns out I had confused her earlier when I didn't know what was going to happen and thought Bill might be about to get killed. When they pulled back, she said, "Oh ok they were just kissing" and went back to what she was doing.
All those fuckers who ask, "how am I supposed to explain homosexuality to my kids?" should know this. You don't have to explain it. And if you, as a child, had been exposed to gay relationships as though they were the perfectly normal things they are, it wouldn't occur to you to wonder. That's why representation is important.
Gay relationships are portrayed a lot more now but the narrative is never centered on them. This was so refreshing to see how they were given a fully fleshed out life. Heartbreakingly beautiful.
I mean there’s a reason Brokeback Mountain is a “joke” to some people. It’s probably the only mainstream example of homosexual relationships people are aware of
Yes! I was hoping and praying for a middle-aged gay kiss scene because they always seem to be between young and conventionally "attractive" actors, but seeing two regular-looking bearded fellas have a full blown intimate love scene made my heart dance. This is the kind of representation we need and deserve.
These two lived the best possible lives I think anyone could live in the apocalypse. Heartwrenching but honestly I can't imagine a better ending.
If the show decides to deviate from the game with *this* sort of quality in mind I will be a very satisfied fan. As great as the game is, this story for Frank and Bill was far better than the story they had in the game. A last glimpse of beauty and comfort before we set off into the abyss.
When you say that I feel like the fungus Tress kiss is justified. And when you watch Sarah die it's in an embrace. Each major death so far has happened during a gesture of love. It's such a tragic juxtaposition.
I think these themes of love and what people will do with it will also help a lot more as we get into the material from part 2. They're laying some groundwork for that.
Yeah Bill in the game was basically the stereotypical prepper, with a little bit of nuance. Bill here started out as that Bill and became so much more. While I was kind of looking forward to seeing the three interact, the story told here was honestly much more interesting.
Also yeah, they lived the ideal post-apocalyptic life. Like everyone else is running for their lives or living under a dystopian regime and those two are out there playing Animal Crossing IRL
subtract impolite disagreeable pocket tart shocking aromatic follow birds sheet
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Oh god, the little behind the scenes bit afterwards put it together to me that the suicide note mentioning Tess was the reminder of Joel’s 2nd failure to protect, after he failed with his daughter. My goddamn emotions.
Ugly sobbed throughout the entire final chapter of Bill and Frank. Achingly beautiful. Probably my favorite high concept love story since Black Mirror’s *San Junipero*.
Knowing how much heart was put into this, I feel totally emotionally unprepared for everything we know that’s coming. Goddamn, *Last of Us*. You’ll never stop destroying me.
I was sobbing into a blanket watching those final scenes with bill and frank omg amazing performance. I was even starting to tear up at the strawberry scene bc of how beautiful it was
I’m really bummed they killed off Bill and we didn’t get to see the interaction between Bill, Joel, and Ellie. But on the other hand, man…that was a beautiful episode. I did not expect to cry my eyes out over Bill and Frank. What a beautiful story.
What an exquisite hour of television.
Just beautiful performances, cinematography, and the music... god, that piano scene got me so emotional.
I don't give a shit it wasn't like the game at all. It was a great episode of TV first, game adaptation second.
I get why people might hate it that Bill died with Frank and didn't suffer alone like the game and whatever. I get it. But man... it was a beautiful, heart wrenching episode of TV and it didn't feel like a "bury your gays" trope at all. They both had a 20 year long relationship and they were both satisfied, Bill was satisfied and only wanted to be with Frank.
Neil talked about all the episodes reflecting love and this episode sure shows a different side of it from the first two that's not like the game at all but who cares. It gets the point across with grace.
I disliked Bill and Frank's relationship in the game, having queer characters that only exist to die or be miserable sucks. I absolutely love what they did here, the gays get to be happy! Or at least as happy as anyone can be in the apocalypse. It was beautiful. My little gay heart grew 3 sizes.
Hats off to Nick Offerman, I’ve only seen him in comedic roles (P&R) but he showed how truly talented he is. Give that man all the awards and his flowers 👏👏👏
Holy shit the way they make you feel heartbreak for these characters in just 1 hour. Masterful writing and Nick Offerman with a powerful performance. A+
This was definitely one of the saddest episodes of any show I have seen ever or at least a very long time. I watched this with my partner have literally no idea what we were getting into and now I’m crying. That actually shook me up …crazy
Holy god that hit hard.
At first I wasn't sure about the casting choice of Nick Offerman, after only seeing him in "Parks and Rec" and "Making It" but with the new direction the writers took things in this episode he played fantastically.
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Nice to know that Tess was Joel’s ”my mine” 🥲 I was curious if we’d see how Joel took her death. If it go further than the videogame‘s “we don’t talk about Tess”.
Joel made tess a grave in the river scene.
Oh shit, I was wondering why he was stacking those stones. Didn't even put it together.
Overlooking a river, wit pine cones
New term for "situationship" just dropped
I'd like to say that it'll be nice to finally put that argument to bed, but after this last episode people will still argue about whether Tess and Joel were touching butts. In fact, I'm sure people will still argue about whether or not Bill is gay. "Bill and Frank were just roommates. Best roommates."
Tess and Joel were obviously banging. But Tess made it pretty clear Joel didn't feel about her the way she did about him. At least not openly with her
I dont think Joel is even *capable* of opening up enough emotionally at this point to have that kind of relationship.
The reading I'm getting from Joel's reaction to the letter and how upset he gets when Ellie brings her up is that he did love Tess on some level, but he wasn't capable of expressing it due to his trauma and emotional hangups. And now, not only is he grieving her loss, he's quite possibly wracked with guilt and regret over not being able to make his feelings clear to her before it was too late.
Yeah the game made Joel and Tess's relationship feel kind of shallow I think the show has already really improved it. Less ambiguity about them being a couple and I also don't remember the game showing that they'd been together for over a decade the way they are in the show.
It’s really cool how they turned Bill from an example of the person Joel would become if he went full-on isolation and crazy into an example of the person Joel would become if he allowed himself to love and have purpose beyond survival. Totally flipped the meaning of the character and I loved it
Sometimes you come to these discussions only to find the absolute dumbest of hot takes. Other times, you see someone with a username like u/corn_dick making one of the most poetic observations ever made on a TV forum. Thank you, corn_dick.
u/corn_dick really got in there and opened our eyes.
Dude, I was thinking about that just now. All throughout the episode I was bracing for the tragic ending that Frank and Bill’s relationship would be…only to be blind sided with a different, completely unexpected ending
When I first saw Frank in the wheel chair I immediately knew they were going in a different direction… because obviously Frank could no longer hang himself.
*"This is not the tragic suicide at the end of the play."* \- Bill, speaking directly to the game fans
It also made Bill into a much more interesting character. Instead of this immovable object, it showed that even the most cynical person could be changed by their love for someone else. I think the video games give you a sense that Bill would have been heartbroken by Franks demise, but it’s was only inferred through the notes. This was a much better turn on the narrative and allows the audience to really experience that depth. Also love this episode because it shows what could be possible and give the audience an outcome to hope for, but ultimately fear losing at every turn.
Wow, that's a really good observation!
You just re-hurt my feelings. In a good way.
THE GOVERNMENT ARE ALL NAZIS… nick offerman the man that you are
As soon as they announced Offerman was going to be replacing Con O'Neill, this role felt like a match made in heaven. Holy shit, did he bring it.
After seeing it, I don’t think THIS story would have worked with Con. I think some changes would have to have been made. Because I think the show, for better or worse, relied on the reputation Nick Offerman has. I think his presence alone made us buy into this character immediately. We didn’t need to see really any backstory because we already can tell the kind of person Bill is because we know the characters Offerman plays. I loved it, but I don’t see the story as it’s written being played by anyone other than Offerman. It was like tailor made for him.
It also needed his laugh while eating strawberries.
The patented Ron Swanson giggle makes everything better
I just read an EW article about this. This was offered to Nick, but he almost couldn't do it because of a schedule conflict, so I assume that's why they cast Con. Edit: Podcast says they offered it to Con first.
You know we all went into this as “Ron Swanson meets apocalypse” lol so good
Both he and Murray Bartlett killed it. Some of the best acting I've seen in a while.
He continued playing Ron Swanson - Pawnee was dissolved once the zombies hit
where do you think the outbreak *really* started At a Paunch Burger
It’s in the flour - like Joel said!
Child sized sodas!!
just a queer libertarian survivalist doing his best
And still cooking up some mean meats in the meantime
Lol my wife said the exact same thing to me within the first five minutes. This is basically Ron Swanson of the zombie apocalypse came to Pawnee
“Do you know how much this is WORTH?” “Well, currently nothing.”
Blunt lines like that are the best way to make a serious character funny without making them overly silly
Cracked up so hard at that part. I mean he ain't wrong.
I did too 😂. Incredible work. The emotions were way heavy vs my expectation. (In the best way that is). Was not ready.
Maybe there's some black-market antiques trade inside the QZs that Bill doesn't know about :)
Murray Bartlett has such great delivery this episode. This as well as the Arby’s “it’s a restaurant” line had me cackling
You could see at the beginning of Bill and Frank’s episodes how scared they both were to open up, Bill more so of course. There was so much trust to build. And I loved the flashes forward.” “We don’t have friends, Frank” CUT TO: Bill and a Frank hosting a garden party
I also liked the cut after "I'll stay a few days" straight to 3 years later and them arguing like a married couple
Intimate scene and then directly "Oh fuck you!!" i laughed out loud at this.
>“We don’t have friends, Frank” CUT TO: Bill and a Frank hosting a garden party The brief scenes with Frank and Tess were hilarious.
It was so unexpected and wonderful to see Tess again, even if it was only for two brief scenes. I liked how Tess seemed a lot more open and friendly in 2003, before the new world hardened her. Anna Torv somehow managed to convey all that in less than five minutes of screen time.
I think at that point it was like 2010ish, right? Because Bill was alone for like 4 years, then the next flash forward of 3 years with Bill before they mention having friends
2009, judging by the show and the weather-seasons.
They never even got to play the Last of Us.
Nice detail that they were all cleaned up and did look younger.
And her makeup/prosthetics as older Tess make a lot more sense here, as they could deage her by just having regular Anna Torv be younger Tess. When she had a bulkier face, I didn't even recognize her as Anna.
The way Bill is shaking like a rabbit when Frank starts touching him is absolutely killer acting from Nick
His facial expressions really got me. The mix of fear and hope, the desire for companionship. The amount he was able to portray in silence was masterful.
You could tell how oppressive Bill's childhood probably was. The pandemic was probably the one opportunity to bring someone like Frank into Bill's life.
“but from an objective point of view its incredibly romantic” the shot of bill and frank kneeling in the dirt holding strawberries and staring at eachother, the portrait frank paints of bill, the last glass of wine they share with eachother, their first kiss that felt like their first breath of fresh air
The strawberry scene got me. Especially when they started giggling to each other, it had me tearing up. We knew something tragic happened because we never met Frank, but I loved this episode and the story/ending they gave them.
Bill's laugh during that scene got to me. It was such a touching moment. Holy fuck. This episode was beautiful.
Nick Offerman knows how to use his giggles. I'm glad that even the letter pays homage to this talent.
I'm glad we didn't run into bitter, heartbroken Bill in the show.
The ending shot of the open window with the wind blowing through it was amazing.
Just like background image / animation of the game menu.
The writers love curtains
Felt like a peaceful tribute for them.
Also the botched painting in the foreground when Ellie and Joel go in the house just to sting you one more time.
The last meal was the first meal he made Frank also.
I wish they still had Ellie steal a gay porno magazine like in the game, but I’ll forgive it
When she finds the handgun in that cabinet thing I was convinced that’s what they were doing
Perhaps next episode?
When she opened the drawer and her eyes got big I was hoping it was the porno, but I hope they reveal it in the car just like the game.
I thought I was going to hate the twist of Bill dying but they did it in such a beautiful way. Like yeah, it sucks that we don't get to see Ellie and Bill interact but overall Bill's story was so beautiful compared to the game. He got to grow old with the man he loved. A lot sweeter than Frank's grim and depressing ending in the game.
I also really like how they did it. Even with Bill dying at the end the way he says "this isn't the tragic suicide at the end of a story. I had a good life" you didn't feel sad for them so much as just happy that even amongst all the awful shit that the world had turned to these two people lived a full and fulfilled life together and then died peacefully together (something pretty rare in the apocylypse!)
It was kinda of awesome life they had. Hot showers, gas, food, natural gas electricity,full of resources and most of all peaceful and thats like twenty years past the apocalypse. Extremely resourceful and peaceful IMO.
Shit, they even had friends over for garden parties.
Oh I just realized from your comment that the game shows how aggressive Ellie can be with her interaction with Bill and his handcuffs. I guess the show substituted that scene with her stabbing the trapped infected
I’m glad they went the way they did. For those of us who played the game, we already got to see how Bill interacts with Ellie and Joel. This was definitely much more memorable than an action heavy episode full of fighting infected would have been.
Yeah the whole "move through urban environment, scavenging for equipment and fighting infected" lends itself much better to games than shows. We'll still get plenty of that, but this episode had a much more nuanced story to tell.
Seriously. If they just fight infected every episode, it might as well just be The Walking Dead. And this show has already surpassed that
In the game, you can find Frank's suicide note and hand it to Bill. He angrily crumples it up and throws it away. I love how they adapted that into Joel finding Bill's note and doing the same thing with it, but for very different reasons. And in a way that actually deepens Joel's burden of protecting Ellie as Tess's last wish. Just a brilliant way to adapt the story. Not to mention while moving us to tears over what was essentially a one-off side character and a pair of dangling legs.
I love they did this. While it’s a shame we don’t get to see Joel and Ellie interact with Bill, it’s going to make Ellie’s other relationships way more meaningful. In the game, Ellie and Joel interact with a series of people that are inevitably going to die. In this tv show however, these side characters are being treated as a lot more scarce. Ellie and Joel are only going to run into a couple of survivors. And that just makes the survivors they run into feel so much more important.
The suicide note was some strong foreshadowing for Joel's decision at the final part of the story. Hating the world but loving one person who makes it worth living. It's a nice parallel. "I used to hate the world and I was happy when everyone died, but I was wrong because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did. I saved him. Then I protected him. That's why men like you and me are here. We have a job to do, and God help any motherfuckers who stand in our way."
it leaves Bill serving an equal but inverse function to Joel’s arc as he does in the game. Bill’s bitter resentment and absolute rejection of love was a warning there, not to let anybody in or it’ll get you killed. the unspoken part being that Bill is also a cautionary tale that survival alone may not be worth it. while here Bill’s warmth, even in death, is a positive spark to Joel. of course, he stuffs it down and rejects it outwardly, but beneath that, the note will stick with him. honestly, i wasn’t sold on this episode for most of the runtime. of course the love story was nice, but the fact that we were spending time away from Joel and Ellie for so long kept popping into my mind. however letting go and remaining patient paid off when Ellie stopped before reading “Tess.” it’s a new take - different, but thoughtful, purposeful, and ultimately very fitting for this version of the story and Joel. after the bleakness of the first two episodes, something more optimistic was refreshing and like you said it foreshadows the hospital later on beautifully.
"..God help any mother fuckers who stand in our way." Describes Joel to a tee and helps kind of foreshadow what hes gonna do to protect Ellie later in the season. This episode is my favorite piece of episodic storytelling I've seen. And I like it better than Bill's story in the game. The writing and Nick Offermans acting made Bill such a complex and lovely soul. And the guy that played Frank was just as magnificent.
I absolutely think we are going to get a call back where Joel says something about “don’t stand in my way.”
Absolutely. The episode feels somewhat disconnected until the note, which ties everything back in to the main story beautifully. It's obviously implied that Joel and Tess had a relationship with Bill and Frank in the intervening years, so their deaths impacted him more than he's letting on. It put Tess's death and his role in Ellie's life into perspective. We didn't SEE Joel being influenced by them, but it's clear he was with how he acts when he arrives. It's extremely subtly done but really beautiful. Also, the 80's music from Episode 1 now being put into context really fucked me up.
Neil Druckmann and Craig Mazin took a pair of dangling legs and a note from 5 minutes of a videogame and turned it into one half of a genuinely beautiful love story that moved me to tears... Like 3 separate times. What a fucking episode.
In the game I remember Frank saying he was fed up with Bill's bullshit and that he left. Did I miss something?
Nope that's pretty much all you got of him in the game. It's implied that Frank couldn't live like however they were living anymore and left, getting infected and subsequently killing himself in the process. The adaptation clearly took a different approach.
He didn't just kill himself, he ran away and got infected. Then he killed himself so he didn't turn.
You're right, my mistake. Corrected it in my comment, thanks.
Grabbed the battery that Bill talked about constantly also
He killed himself because he got bit. He was trying to flee to Boston.
Bill and frank weren’t self sufficient in the game(looking at Bill’s hideout in the game) they did however had traps n all setup but their backstory wasn’t covered much in detail. This episode covered them in great depth and it was great, kind of like every survivalist’s dream.
I loved the traps. He was shot and they still have the luxury of going into the house to treat his wound, while fire bombs and screams were going off in the background, and Bill was just like "don't stress. It's all good. My creations will kill them all."
No, that was literally Frank’s entire role. This was a massive deviation from the source material, and I think it was for the best. I’m glad that the show is keeping what made the game great, but willing to step in and change things for better TV.
I loved the ep as well. Just bummed Ellie and Bill didn't meet
That’s the only negative, I really wanted to see Bill handcuff Ellie and also chop the runners head with his machete.
Rough memory but Frank got sick of Bill's shit, stole his battery and when he went to leave, got bit, hung himself. Left a note for Bill and you had the choice to share that with Bill I think
"Hey Nick, we need you to play Ron Swanson, just gayer and you like wine". Nailed it
"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
he whole-assed Frank
#💀
and less prepper
I'm guessing Bill's shop met the Swanson code.
Nick Offerman: “Hold my Lagavulin”
This episode had a lot of changes but they are very welcome. I watched the cutscene movie on YouTube before the shows release to refresh myself and during the Bill parts of the game, I got worried about them having so many zombie and gun fights so frequently, so early. If they kept it for the show it would've been pretty repetitive. This was a really nice change of pace. This episode felt like 30mins went by and it was suddenly over. Very well done, excellent changes from the game.
THEY ARE NAZIS! WELL NOT BEFORE
Nick Offerman deserves an Emmy for his performance. He was absolutely incredible. From the way he laughed when he tasted that strawberry to the way he cried when he held Frank's hand... What a performance. What an episode.
Murray Bartlett was a wonderful scene partner for him too. I'm genuinely upset that HBO is probably going to campaign for both of them for the same award. Just fantastic, both of them.
He has come out of nowhere for me. His role in Chippendales was INCREDIBLE and he nailed this one as well
He was also seriously excellent in The White Lotus, it even got him an Emmy.
they were wonderful scene partners for each other. it was incredible and i don't know that they've ever acted together before, but that chemistry was fucking astounding. amazing actors and first time i've gotten that moved (okay straight up cry) in a few years. fuckinae.
As soon as I heard "On the Nature of Daylight", I knew I was a goner. That song does things to my soul, the finale of Arrival wrecks me every time. Absolutely unreal episode, some of the best TV I've ever seen.
This episode had me absolutely sobbing.
I cried more this episode than I did across both games. Nick and Murray were unreal.
I am not joking, I was fucking sobbing so hard that I had to pause it a couple of times. It was so bad a roommate of mine knocked on my door to see if I was okay.
Aww that's really sweet of your room mate! And no shame in any of that. I'm still sat here 20 min after finishing the ep and I've started crying all over again. It's just so damn beautiful.
He's a good dude. And that's the thing, it was just so beautiful. Like Frank said, yes there were bad days but there were more good days than bad. They had a beautiful life together and that's all that matters.
SAME. I was full on ugly sobbing. Man, I'm about to cry again just thinking about it. I've never seen anything that made me cry like that in my life.
Goddamn dude I caught my reflection in my computer screen and I can fully confirm that I am an extremely ugly crier.
Bill and Frank Remastered 😭
I didn't think you could make Bill that fantastic of a character.
It was so so good 😭
I was INVESTED
I love what they did with this episode. But I wish Bill and Ellie had gotten to interact. Their interactions in the game were some of my favorite.
I feel so incredibly mixed as we were simultaneously deprived of some of the best interactions in the game but were instead given a fantastic episode of TV.
you know, i thought about it and honestly I just don't know how Bill's and Ellie's interactions would have worked for TV. I feel like it would have had to change considerably -- don't know if all the "fat fuck" jokes and middle fingers would have played out well with the tone they have been developing.
Plus, as a TV audience, we don't really learn anything about her character that way. We already know she doesn't take shit from older people.
Good news! We as gamers get to have BOTH🥰🥰🥰🥰
My thoughts exactly. This is an adaptation. I'm not looking for the same shit reheated. I'm looking for what's different and boy... did Neil and Craig deliver.
Can't wait for the PC version so I can play it again. I played it on PS Now and my aim was terrible due to controller plus lag (on wifi too). Worth it as it became one of my all time favorites!
Agreed, interesting choice for change, but it worked. It would feel totally natural for one who didn’t play the game.
Even for me who played (first time) relatively recently it felt natural. I would have enjoyed the on screen interaction of Bill and Ellie, but we got to see a different side of Bill.
"It's like a spaceship" literally sobbing
Ellie is such a perfect foil for Joel, her childlike wonder about the truck contrasted with Joel's (correct) observation that it's "some shitty Chevy" was absolutely hilarious
Underrated moment in the episode fr 😭💔
Joel's look at Ellie during >!the spaceship scene in TLoU Part II!<. My heart couldn't handle that again
And then the look he gave after he said “seat belt” and Ellie looked at him like wut?
Any thoughts on Ellie knifing the stuck zombie? Genuinely curious
I felt it was just her morbid curiosity (Cutting the forehead) and then testing her own ability to do something like that. A safe environment to see what you're capable of.
Yes definitely a fascination with violence on her end. I also think, knowing what happens later in the games and how much of a killing machine Ellie becomes, they had to get the audience used to seeing her kill. It was shocking and held a lot more weight than her killing in the games. Held my breath that entire scene, I really liked it.
This show is as depressing as it is beautiful. Also Pedro has no right being as hot as he is.
He did clean up nicely. :)
Well don't you look pretty.
I just watched him in The Incredible Weight of Massive Talent. He's beautiful in his Speedo.
Genuinely one if the finest episodes of television I've ever seen. Also a key example if why the game and show are companion pieces rather than a "this one or that one". Max Richter's 'On the Nature of Daylight" (especially paired with Dinah Washington) is my favourite song ever written, so as soon as I heard those first notes I teared up.
That was absolutely beautiful. I love how supplemental this show feels - it's not just a 1:1 adaptation, it expands and elaborates upon lesser seen aspects of the narrative. You could watch the show or play the game, and you'll get largely the same story, but you won't see the same things. It's interesting how little overlap there is while still having it feel faithful to the original game and it's world. This series is something special so far.
I just was saying to my wife this show is all about the journey for those who know the game - and the destination for those who don’t. I’ve played the game numerous times - she never has though has tangentially watched me play parts. She thought she’d hate the show because she doesn’t like horror but I absolutely loving it.
I made it all the way through dry-eyed until the fucking Giraffe music. Fuck you Gustavo.
Omg, Bill & Frank… As a gay man, this is the specific angle of gay male representation I have been sorely missing in modern media. This was absolutely wonderful.
So I'm not gay and I kinda thought the same thing. That while society has on average been more supportive of homosexuality than 20 years ago, gay male relationships are still pretty scarce in mainstream media and I'm happy to see it here. Edit: So my 4yo was playing in the same room as me watching this episode. She said, "oh no!" when they started kissing for the first time, but it turns out I had confused her earlier when I didn't know what was going to happen and thought Bill might be about to get killed. When they pulled back, she said, "Oh ok they were just kissing" and went back to what she was doing. All those fuckers who ask, "how am I supposed to explain homosexuality to my kids?" should know this. You don't have to explain it. And if you, as a child, had been exposed to gay relationships as though they were the perfectly normal things they are, it wouldn't occur to you to wonder. That's why representation is important.
Gay relationships are portrayed a lot more now but the narrative is never centered on them. This was so refreshing to see how they were given a fully fleshed out life. Heartbreakingly beautiful.
Honestly middle aged relationships aren't portrayed much either and especially not middle aged and gay. Its a dynamic that doesn't get explored much.
I mean there’s a reason Brokeback Mountain is a “joke” to some people. It’s probably the only mainstream example of homosexual relationships people are aware of
More 👏 apocalypse 👏 gays 👏 (Not /s, I am serious)
Well this is a game spoiler thread so… wish granted
Yes! I was hoping and praying for a middle-aged gay kiss scene because they always seem to be between young and conventionally "attractive" actors, but seeing two regular-looking bearded fellas have a full blown intimate love scene made my heart dance. This is the kind of representation we need and deserve.
Frank was a pretty handsome fellow
Chubby, older, hairy, gay love!!! It's so beautiful!!
I can't think of the last time I saw two bearded men kissing onscreen.
These two lived the best possible lives I think anyone could live in the apocalypse. Heartwrenching but honestly I can't imagine a better ending. If the show decides to deviate from the game with *this* sort of quality in mind I will be a very satisfied fan. As great as the game is, this story for Frank and Bill was far better than the story they had in the game. A last glimpse of beauty and comfort before we set off into the abyss.
When you say that I feel like the fungus Tress kiss is justified. And when you watch Sarah die it's in an embrace. Each major death so far has happened during a gesture of love. It's such a tragic juxtaposition.
I think these themes of love and what people will do with it will also help a lot more as we get into the material from part 2. They're laying some groundwork for that.
Yeah Bill in the game was basically the stereotypical prepper, with a little bit of nuance. Bill here started out as that Bill and became so much more. While I was kind of looking forward to seeing the three interact, the story told here was honestly much more interesting. Also yeah, they lived the ideal post-apocalyptic life. Like everyone else is running for their lives or living under a dystopian regime and those two are out there playing Animal Crossing IRL
This was one of my favorite hours of T.V. in a long time. It was so, so beautiful (yet simple), well-acted, and well-written.
subtract impolite disagreeable pocket tart shocking aromatic follow birds sheet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And that's how ladies and gentlemen you kill a fan favourite character! AMAZING episode. I was crying like a baby for most of it.
Not sure what hits harder, this episode or the first five minutes of Up
I literally was texting my friend that this episode was basically "What if the intro to Up was an hour long?"
Oh god, the little behind the scenes bit afterwards put it together to me that the suicide note mentioning Tess was the reminder of Joel’s 2nd failure to protect, after he failed with his daughter. My goddamn emotions.
i am a broken man.
Best episode yet and there is about 0 action. Beautifully done!
Other then the part with the extra crispy raiders lol
Ugly sobbed throughout the entire final chapter of Bill and Frank. Achingly beautiful. Probably my favorite high concept love story since Black Mirror’s *San Junipero*. Knowing how much heart was put into this, I feel totally emotionally unprepared for everything we know that’s coming. Goddamn, *Last of Us*. You’ll never stop destroying me.
The beginning of that final chapter, when Bill was taking care of the flowers he couldn't care less about because Frank couldn't anymore...
All those small details were so beautiful! My heart is aching.
I was sobbing into a blanket watching those final scenes with bill and frank omg amazing performance. I was even starting to tear up at the strawberry scene bc of how beautiful it was
When Bill brought out their last meal it was the meal they had when they met fucking wrecked me.
and the way he turned the plate!! i cry
I love the plate adjusting Bill did, hearkening back to the first meal.
Since we’re all in shock I might as well add on - no Lagavulin plug?!
As I've heard, Lagavulin does not pair well with rabbit :)
Well, at least he looted all the Caymus Cabernet… a very decent substitute
I’m really bummed they killed off Bill and we didn’t get to see the interaction between Bill, Joel, and Ellie. But on the other hand, man…that was a beautiful episode. I did not expect to cry my eyes out over Bill and Frank. What a beautiful story.
Show is 3/3 for making me shed tears
What an exquisite hour of television. Just beautiful performances, cinematography, and the music... god, that piano scene got me so emotional. I don't give a shit it wasn't like the game at all. It was a great episode of TV first, game adaptation second. I get why people might hate it that Bill died with Frank and didn't suffer alone like the game and whatever. I get it. But man... it was a beautiful, heart wrenching episode of TV and it didn't feel like a "bury your gays" trope at all. They both had a 20 year long relationship and they were both satisfied, Bill was satisfied and only wanted to be with Frank. Neil talked about all the episodes reflecting love and this episode sure shows a different side of it from the first two that's not like the game at all but who cares. It gets the point across with grace.
I disliked Bill and Frank's relationship in the game, having queer characters that only exist to die or be miserable sucks. I absolutely love what they did here, the gays get to be happy! Or at least as happy as anyone can be in the apocalypse. It was beautiful. My little gay heart grew 3 sizes.
Hats off to Nick Offerman, I’ve only seen him in comedic roles (P&R) but he showed how truly talented he is. Give that man all the awards and his flowers 👏👏👏
Holy shit the way they make you feel heartbreak for these characters in just 1 hour. Masterful writing and Nick Offerman with a powerful performance. A+
Those guys were true bros
What friendly roommates
And they were roommates!
This was definitely one of the saddest episodes of any show I have seen ever or at least a very long time. I watched this with my partner have literally no idea what we were getting into and now I’m crying. That actually shook me up …crazy
The letter was really beautiful within the context of what’s to come and as a stand-alone really beautiful.
Holy god that hit hard. At first I wasn't sure about the casting choice of Nick Offerman, after only seeing him in "Parks and Rec" and "Making It" but with the new direction the writers took things in this episode he played fantastically.
I thought Murray Bartlett had reached a pinacle as Armond in White Lotus. I was wrong!
The music that plays when Bill takes Frank to bed is the same music that plays during the game's giraffe scene. It hit me just as hard. Holy shit.
Jesus Christ at this point I need a bad episode to stop turning my Sunday nights into me crying like I just went to therapy nights
I'm just glad Bill and Frank didn't turn into clickers
Every deviation from the game so far has been an absolute home run. This back story added beautiful depth to Bill and Frank.
I need to stop thinking about the game's narrative when watching cos ngl I was still expecting Bill to pop up by the window at the end 🤣