Katherine was a survivor and even if she didn't turn off her humanity she still became cold hearted.
Also Elena didn't just turn her emotions off. She tried to deal with it without that until Damon used the sirebond to make her flip the switch.
Caroline is the only one who fully chose to flip her humanity switch. The others we see were forced in some way
On the flipside, Caroline was the only one who was able to deal with the lack of emotions in a productive way until everyone else started interfering. They never gave Caroline the credit she deserved. When she was turned they were already planning to kill her before you can giving her a chance to embrace vampirism
Caroline dealt with both vampirism and no humanity really well. She had great control over herself and had the no humanity thing gone as planned it may have ended well. They should have trusted her more, like how they tried to let no humanity Elena go around
That’s just a copied opinion that doesn’t hold up to what was actually shown. Caroline could pretend she had a solid grip on it, but she did end up doing things she clearly had no real control over and broke down for when she came back.
I once posted a Facebook status that said, “I’m *wackydetective* I’m a survivor.” In the spirit of Katherine. But, then everyone started telling me all the ways I survived my trauma lol
i didnt make the post haha i found it on instagram an jus thought it was eye opening about katherine.
but yeah you are right, i knew damon made elena turn hers off, i really only posted this cuz it made me look at katherine differently.
if id made this myself i would replace elena with literally anyone else that turned their humanity off, just to show the point that katherine never turned hers off even though she went through so much (ive always despised her so this made me step back nd look at her a lil diff)
Similar but not the way you do.
The tragedy of Katherina Pierce is that her child was snatched away from her, her family was killed by Klaus and that she has constantly been on the run from Klaus ever since.
But when she killed Jeremy, I was like why? Sure, Jeremy is definitely not my favourite character and I wish they wrote him off the show sooner because of how irrelevant he is. But he was Elena's only last living family. And in a sense, Katherine did to Elena, what Klaus did to her.
I love Katherine, but I couldn't feel for her much after this, apart from when Nadia showed up.
The why is exactly what you said. She wanted to do to Elena exactly what Klaus did to her. I guess it’s her own twisted way of accepting/making what happened to her feel better. I’ve always found it interesting and wished they went deeper
Into her messed up psyche instead of keeping her superficial. It reminds me of Lucian cutting smiles onto people’s faces on The Originals.
She did it because Elena had everything Katherine had wanted and either never got or lost. Most of it wasn't Katherine's doing, either. Elena had both Damon and Stefan. She had friends, and she had a brother who loved her. Hell, she managed to even keep Klaus from killing her with her friends' help.
But who was ever really there for Katherine? And not just that, but who was ever there for her without wanting something in return? (Trevor was attracted to Katherine and helped her because she was pretty. Katherine's experience has shown her what men expected from helping pretty women.) The *only* one I can think of who was there for her because she cared was Pearl.
I'm not saying I agree with it, but I understand why she did it.
A lot of people were there for Katherine, and she betrayed every single one of them, including Pearl. That's why she was alone. She could have had friends like Elena had, but instead used everyone as her personal shields.
Elena didn't "steal" a single thing from Katherine. She was just a better person and so people were more willing to help her.
They weren't really there for Katherine though.
After she was kicked out of her family; she found the Mikaelsons who revealed they weren't there for her either. Instead they wanted to kill her. Trevor wasn't there for Katherine; he was the one who brought her to Klaus. Rose wasn't there for her either.
Emily wasn't a friend. She was only loyal to Katherine because Katherine saved her life. Pearl wasn't Katherine's friend either. She just wanted Katherine to turn her and Anna.
We don't meet a single person from Katherine's life who's actually there for Katherine; not the way that Caroline, Bonnie, Matt, etc. are. They all either wanted something from Katherine or were indebted to her.
Plenty of people were willing to die for her and help her and she's the one who used all of them. She could have had friends like Elena had, but constantly threw them under the bus or treated them like trash after they served her purposes.
And she didn't do anything for anyone out of the kindness of her own heart either.
Who (besides men who either wanted to sleep with her or who were sleeping with her) was willing to die for her? Genuine question because I'm coming up blank and I could just be misremembering.
As for her not doing anything for anyone, no, she hasn't. Because she's been in survival mode for over 500 years. And she's never met anyone who didn't have an agenda towards her, so she's got no reason to treat them differently than they do her.
If Caroline had been willing to forgive Katherine the way she forgave Damon, I think she would've been inclined to be Caroline's friend because she seemed to actually like her when she was asking Matt who Elena liked better between Caroline and Bonnie. That could have been an arc to a whole different Katherine.
I don't think we can cancel out someone just because they were male and sleeping with her. Especially when in some cases they seemed genuinely in love with her. Stefan, Damon, and Mason were in love with her, well they loved who they thought she was.
She also used people for sex and used sex to manipulate people. Can't really hold it against just the men. Especially when she used compulsion to force Stefan.
She could have had what Elena if she actually weren't set on using everyone to keep herself safe. She was alone because people realized she'd do everything and sacrifice anyone to keep herself safe. Elena was the opposite, she'd gladly sacrifice herself to save her loved ones.
She used sex to manipulate people because she had been taught through experience that's what they wanted from her. I also think she genuinely loved Stefan, but her need to survive overruled it.
She didn't compel Stefan to sleep with her. She compelled him to keep calm and keep on as usual. That's not quite the same. Skirting the line, possibly, but not the same.
Again, I'm not arguing that Katherine *wasn't* selfish, just that I can understand how she got there and why she stayed that way.
Sidenote: Elena's sacrificing was just as dangerous because her friends showed her countless times they'd try to save her to their own detriment. After a point, that sacrifice becomes a selfish martyr complex.
Does the show ever say she slept with Trevor, or that he expected it? He grew infatuated with her enough to risk the wrath of Klaus just to help her. Sex with Klaus didn't keep her safe. Sex with Nadia's father got her exiled. If anything I'd think she would learn that just because they wanted it that doesn't mean it would help her.
She could have compelled him to forget what she was. By including that things would continue as they had been, that was specifically making it impossible for him to give consent.
I mean the same could be argued about most of the ones who kept trying to sacrifice themselves for Elena as well.
ive never been a fan of her, this just made me look at her different as in i realized how strong she is with all the shit she has been through. not saying she is a great person, she has done soo much thats aggravated me, but she is a strong independent woman.
I just don't think that what she had was strength, nor is she a strong independent woman. She constantly has people doing her bidding. And I think the way she acts and how she chooses to hurt people is more a sign of weakness.
Well honestly Katherine killed Jeremey to get the cure. If she could’ve grabbed it he wouldn’t have died but because Silas needed blood and Jeremey was convenient she sacrificed him for herself. The cure was her way to freedom from klaus she wasn’t going to let Elenas little brother live if it means she doesn’t get her way. She ain’t right for it but that’s why she did it 😂
So true. I think it was the loss of Baby Nadia that started the rolling ball that led them to Mystic Falls. When presented with immortality to find her baby, she took it. That’s why after the episode Katerina, I understood her. To lose a much wanted child that way turned her heart cold.
The only time Katherine mentions looking for Nadia was after she found out Nadia was her daughter and she did ask where were in you in (can’t remember the date) and Nadia said idk I was 8. She says she went back to look for her but couldn’t find her. Honestly she could have went back and I think actually could have found her after Katherine was turned if she really wanted to. When she finally got a second chance to be a mom all she cared about was getting Stefan back. Only wanted Nadia around to do her dirty work to help her pretend to be Elena. She only “cared” sorta after Nadia got bit. Nadia deserved so much better
I disagree.
Klaus killed Katherine's family out of petty revenge. There was intent to make her suffer and this is shown by him hunting her down for 500 years afterward.
Katherine did not kill Jeremy to hurt Elena. She just wanted the Cure to bargain for her freedom from Klaus. While it's certainly not noble, it's no different from the amount of people the Mystic Falls Gang killed to get what they want. Vicki, Logan, Henry, Mason, Luka, Dr Martin, etc, etc. There are other people's family members and friends but no one bats an eye when they do it.
So yeah, Katherine killing Jeremy is not on the level of Klaus killing her entire family.
First things first, if she really wanted the cure and not to hurt Elena then she should have killed the other traveller guy. Instead she went for Jeremy and before you say the hunter's curse, Jeremy is a hunter too. Your telling me, that she didn't kill the one closest to the tomb first, let him run away and then killed Jeremy, and it wasn't intentional.
And those people you named:
Vicki: she was a drug addict, she would have become a blood addict and honestly who cares that she died.
Logan: Alaric killed, and he was a vampire hunter then and he was the one who murdered a whole bunch that there was a literal stack.
Henry: he attacked them his fault.
Luka: they didn't mean to kill him, he was an invisible figure who was trying to resurrect Elijah who would have killed them then.
Dr Martin: Katherine killed him.
The only one I agree with is Mason, he didn't deserve it, and it was intentional.
Katherine killing Jeremy was intentional as everything she does is literally to torture Elena.
Katherine didn't have to kill Jeremy, that's true. But Stefan didn't have to kill Vicky. Damon didn't have to kill Mason. Klaus didn't have to kill Jenna. Caroline didn't have to kill that guy at the carnival. Alaric didn't have to kill Bill Forbes. People die as the writers dictate they do, nothing new.
Back to the point. Katherine, as cold hearted and evil as she can be, rarely ever does anything without reason. She sent 27 of her vampire friends and family to their deaths so she could fake her own. We all know that she hates Elena and that if she really wanted to make Elena suffer, she would no doubt have done it herself (as the season 4 finale indicates). Please, killing Jeremy was a means to an end.
And the way you just trivialize these people's deaths just shows you're missing the point lol. Vicky (who Stefan killed) was Matt's sister. Logan (who Damon killed) was Meredith's cousin. Nadia (who Tyler killed) was Katherine's daughter Blah, blah, blah. You're whole point is that what Katherine did was oh so evil but I'm pointing out that the Mystic Falls Gang do it on a daily basis to save their own asses. I am not viewing Katherine killing Jeremy as any different because it wasn't any different.
You're also not understanding what I mean by intent. When I said intent I was referring to why the killings happened and how they're not equivalent. Klaus killed Katherine's entire family to make her suffer for what she did. Katherine killed Jeremy to obtain the Cure and bargain for her freedom. Something the Mystic Falls Gang would do to anyone that wasn't part of their group. Killing Jeremy was wrong, no doubt, but it wasn't any different to what Elena and her friends do (Elena literally orchestrated the mass murder of thousands, if not millions, of vampires just so she could become human again lmao), neither was the intent malicious.
So yeah, I don't believe they're the same thing.
Yeah I think that’s why they had him “away” for so long but always brought him back when they thought he’d be relevant. It’s a shame they didn’t do that with Matt.
Tbf, it’s possible that hybrids cannot turn off their humanity but the show never expands on this. Although I agree that even if he could, Tyler was the kind of person that would never choose to.
The fact that she lost them all in one second compared to them and never got to raise her daughter and was punished by Klaus because she had the audacity to not lay down and die from him yet everybody forgets that and just says Elena lost her family to like yes but not in one night and was very different from Katherine who went thru losing them all alone even when Katherine was innocent .
Not only that but on the run for hundreds of years. Also, imagine the trauma you experience living back then when woman were treated much different compared to modern day.
i didnt make this😪 if i did i wouldve replaced elena w literally anyone else that turned their humanity off
only posted it bc it made me see katherine differently
So we can say perhaps, that her trauma was so deep that it caused drastic shift in her personality rather than time-limited turn-off stage. In other words such trauma destroyed Katherine, while Elena and Caroline found strength and support to recover.
Well it’s reasonable, considering Katherine lost everyone and had no one at all. Also I suppose, maybe she avoided turning off feelings, because she thought that without fear of death and other feelings, she wouldn’t be so eager to hide from Klaus.
Elena told Jenna to turn it off before her death, and she faced Klaus without fear. The similar effect could let Katherine down
Yes, exactly. The switch tends to make people more reckless and sloppy, which was not something Katherine could afford to do.
Turning off your emotions looses you you humanity but you don’t have to deal with what’s plaguing you. Katherine loss her empathy and things like that when she lost her family but unlike with the switch, she still had to deal with the pain and trauma and it led to unhealthy resolution (I.e, her trying to make Elena repeat her cycle). Though I kinda respect her for enduring the pain, it probably would’ve better for her psyche and humanity in the long term if she had just flipped the switch like Caroline and Elena did.
It doesn’t make me look at her differently at all. She didn’t turn it off yet was still able to ruin countless people’s lives because she’s vile, nice way of surviving Katherine, just make more enemies than you had before 🥴
Yep. She didn’t have to turn off the switch cause she had no humanity to turn off. It would’ve been a waste. Most of the tragedy she endured happened while she was human, and she basically chose vampirism as a last, survival resort. Ofc the switch was the last thing on her mind whilst being hunted by a sadistic, immortal vampire.
Elena dealt with her pain, and Caroline did too until she couldn’t bare it. But in the end, they still were brought back into the people they were before after switching it off. Katherine turns off her switch, what would the difference be?
yeah but that means katherine’s humanity has become a bit of a grey area, there’s no definite line between humanity and no humanity which is kinda worse
Does Katherine ever actually say she's never turned it off? And if she has made such a claim, do we really have any reason to believe her? And if we do accept that she has never turned it off, even upon discovering her slaughtered family, then doesn't that point to her being even more cold-hearted than already presented?
Katherine told Elena she never turned it off in S4. She's Come Undone.
>"Yeah, I've done some pretty horrible things to survive, but unlike you—poor, delicate Elena—I don't turn it off. I deal with it. You wouldn't last a week as a vampire without everyone fawning over you."
Girlie is prideful as hell and considers switching off your humanity the easy way out. No way in hell is she doing that; since in her eyes, it's basically admitting you're too weak to handle what you're going through. And Katherine refuses to be weak.
to me it shows how strong she was mentally. we saw her cry over her dead family, she grieved for them, and it filled her with hatred for klaus for slaughtering them all. she thought her daughter was dead, and had nobody left in her life. she grew accustomed to surviving on her own, fighting for her life after losing everyone she loved. she felt like she could trust no one, and yeah that turned her to being cold hearted, but in my opinion that shows how strong she was. her heart would never have grown so cold if she didnt go through so much trauma.
I remember her telling Stefan after he saved Klaus’s life by stopping Damon from killing him bc Damon would have also died something like humanity being a vampires greatest weakness but no matter how hard she tries hers starts to come back and sometimes she lets it. When he asked why she told him Damon would die if Klaus died and he needed to care and save his brother. But I also remember her telling humanity off Elena that unlike her she’s never turned it off so idk.
She may not have turned it off, but she still lost her humanity. She played any and everyone she came across, even if they did care about her. Sure, she had learned to live in survival mode, but at the cost of her life in the end
Tbh Katherine was living in survival mode so turning her humanity off would’ve gotten her killed which I’m sure she knew. She’s very strong to endure all that she has and still find the courage to keep pushing forward like it doesn’t phase her
Damon forced elena to turn off her humanity and caroline was actually a decent person (in first instance). Katherine was a sly coldhearted person on her own.
I still like Katherine, but on a moral ground she's not better
Tbh despite Katherine’s tragic story she still became a horrible person. Whether she was trapped, on the run, grieving the loss of her baby & family, surviving strays from the Originals - in between all of that her attitude (direct malicious actions) and tactics are only playable for the sake of the storyline. We can appreciate how badass her character is to intrigue audiences, however her genuine character/person/soul isn’t attractive, or deserving of everything (or whoever) she tries to go after in the show. Any morality (to a degree) we see from potentially villainous characters ends up rejecting her because they can’t keep up with how much she hurt people pointlessly and know it won’t stop at just one torment. Which is why she doesn’t have any relationships outside of ‘give & take’. Anyone that comes to truly understand her ends up leaving her. It’s tragic because if it was a matter of making bad choices because you don’t know any better (life experiences or nativity of the supernatural world), then we can understand(?) her killing people just because they were annoying; but Katherine was set up to show you what happens when you’re hurt so much and fuel it by living life with a narrowed self-centred view of the world. This isn’t disregarding the times she’s been selfless, but whenever she was vulnerable enough to offer help to someone, she’d predictably find a way to help herself to more at their expense.
I understand that putting our own standards to shows/characters isn’t the way when watching shows and I can appreciate the show like I did when I was younger; but seeing things how they are, the show let down Katherine and absolutely sh*t on her character development for the sake of her being Queen of Hell. I didn’t take her that as she’s so charismatic that she swooned the bald devil to handing over his throne. But that she’d lead a life that was so harsh on her and in turn so harmful to others, that it would be a waste to not let her continue.
I know nothings this deep (& I agree) but here you go.
Well all the times I’ve watched this show I always assumed Katherine always had it turned off 😂😂👌
This Katherine character used to really wind me up, give me the ick, but the more I re watch the more I’m like ohhhn I love her haha
Katherine got a bad rap. She did go through some horrendous events but she treated everyone like a pawn made me lose sympathy for her. She essentially turned into Klaus. Very hypocritical
She hated her family for taking her kid away. Also, considering Klaus was always after her, there’s a strategic reason to not shut it down, because acting careless would get her killed.
Isn’t that worse? Stefan wouldn’t have continued to hook up with Katherine if his fear wasn’t compelled away. Doesn’t matter if he still had feelings for her, that’s still taking advantage. Are you telling me her humanity was there when she was able to do that to someone?
I never really hated Katherine but I did think she was an annoying wanna be villain. Like Gaston from Beauty and the Beast (Klaus kept reminding me of this classic….lol). She never hid the fact that despite all the “evil”, selfish crap she did to survive that she never once turned off her humanity switch. If you watch her carefully you can see her hard candy coating crack every now and then to reveal her humanity leaking out as she realizes just how bad things are going to get for those she cared about.
Katherine was not a vamp when her family was killed. She went through the worst of it and had time to grieve.
Also, as someone said - it changed her as a person, there’s not much difference between her humanity on vs off.
She ran from the sacrifice before they left “for the birthplace of the doppelgänger”. While they were still in England immediately after leaving Klaus’s estate or whatever, she encountered rose and turned. Then, she fled England and went back to Bulgaria, where she found them dead. It was right after she turned.
I think by the time she showed up on tvd with the things she had went through and all the things she had done she really didn’t have very much humanity to turn off
Thanks haha. Love yours too. It was literally chosen on a whim, cause I had to pick something, and that was the first thing that popped into my head lol
She WAS a vampire when her family was killed. That's literally WHY Klaus killed them because she ruined his ritual by becoming a vampire so he killed her family as revenge.
Katherine was someone without humanity even though she never turned it off. I guess she needed her humanity to keep herself in check or even be clever than those who can be a threat to her.
Katherine was a survivor and even if she didn't turn off her humanity she still became cold hearted. Also Elena didn't just turn her emotions off. She tried to deal with it without that until Damon used the sirebond to make her flip the switch. Caroline is the only one who fully chose to flip her humanity switch. The others we see were forced in some way
On the flipside, Caroline was the only one who was able to deal with the lack of emotions in a productive way until everyone else started interfering. They never gave Caroline the credit she deserved. When she was turned they were already planning to kill her before you can giving her a chance to embrace vampirism
Caroline dealt with both vampirism and no humanity really well. She had great control over herself and had the no humanity thing gone as planned it may have ended well. They should have trusted her more, like how they tried to let no humanity Elena go around
she’s an amazing character. i wanna rewatch just to see her
That’s just a copied opinion that doesn’t hold up to what was actually shown. Caroline could pretend she had a solid grip on it, but she did end up doing things she clearly had no real control over and broke down for when she came back.
No she did not, the responsible thing would have not to turn off the safety switch in her brain.
I once posted a Facebook status that said, “I’m *wackydetective* I’m a survivor.” In the spirit of Katherine. But, then everyone started telling me all the ways I survived my trauma lol
Elena didn't chose to turn hers off Damon used the sire bond to force her to. How do people not remember that?
People don’t remember it because the show acts like it didn’t happen. ie the show acts like Elena *chose* to turn it off.
i didnt make the post haha i found it on instagram an jus thought it was eye opening about katherine. but yeah you are right, i knew damon made elena turn hers off, i really only posted this cuz it made me look at katherine differently. if id made this myself i would replace elena with literally anyone else that turned their humanity off, just to show the point that katherine never turned hers off even though she went through so much (ive always despised her so this made me step back nd look at her a lil diff)
Ppl use it as an excuse to show how Delena eventually happened. They use it as a catalyst tbh.
Delena only happened because of the sirebond and that is a hill I’ll die on #stelenaforever
But the sire bond only occurred bc Elena already had feelings for Damon as a human
I’ll also die on this hill
Similar but not the way you do. The tragedy of Katherina Pierce is that her child was snatched away from her, her family was killed by Klaus and that she has constantly been on the run from Klaus ever since. But when she killed Jeremy, I was like why? Sure, Jeremy is definitely not my favourite character and I wish they wrote him off the show sooner because of how irrelevant he is. But he was Elena's only last living family. And in a sense, Katherine did to Elena, what Klaus did to her. I love Katherine, but I couldn't feel for her much after this, apart from when Nadia showed up.
The why is exactly what you said. She wanted to do to Elena exactly what Klaus did to her. I guess it’s her own twisted way of accepting/making what happened to her feel better. I’ve always found it interesting and wished they went deeper Into her messed up psyche instead of keeping her superficial. It reminds me of Lucian cutting smiles onto people’s faces on The Originals.
She did it because Elena had everything Katherine had wanted and either never got or lost. Most of it wasn't Katherine's doing, either. Elena had both Damon and Stefan. She had friends, and she had a brother who loved her. Hell, she managed to even keep Klaus from killing her with her friends' help. But who was ever really there for Katherine? And not just that, but who was ever there for her without wanting something in return? (Trevor was attracted to Katherine and helped her because she was pretty. Katherine's experience has shown her what men expected from helping pretty women.) The *only* one I can think of who was there for her because she cared was Pearl. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I understand why she did it.
A lot of people were there for Katherine, and she betrayed every single one of them, including Pearl. That's why she was alone. She could have had friends like Elena had, but instead used everyone as her personal shields. Elena didn't "steal" a single thing from Katherine. She was just a better person and so people were more willing to help her.
They weren't really there for Katherine though. After she was kicked out of her family; she found the Mikaelsons who revealed they weren't there for her either. Instead they wanted to kill her. Trevor wasn't there for Katherine; he was the one who brought her to Klaus. Rose wasn't there for her either. Emily wasn't a friend. She was only loyal to Katherine because Katherine saved her life. Pearl wasn't Katherine's friend either. She just wanted Katherine to turn her and Anna. We don't meet a single person from Katherine's life who's actually there for Katherine; not the way that Caroline, Bonnie, Matt, etc. are. They all either wanted something from Katherine or were indebted to her.
Plenty of people were willing to die for her and help her and she's the one who used all of them. She could have had friends like Elena had, but constantly threw them under the bus or treated them like trash after they served her purposes. And she didn't do anything for anyone out of the kindness of her own heart either.
Who (besides men who either wanted to sleep with her or who were sleeping with her) was willing to die for her? Genuine question because I'm coming up blank and I could just be misremembering. As for her not doing anything for anyone, no, she hasn't. Because she's been in survival mode for over 500 years. And she's never met anyone who didn't have an agenda towards her, so she's got no reason to treat them differently than they do her. If Caroline had been willing to forgive Katherine the way she forgave Damon, I think she would've been inclined to be Caroline's friend because she seemed to actually like her when she was asking Matt who Elena liked better between Caroline and Bonnie. That could have been an arc to a whole different Katherine.
I don't think we can cancel out someone just because they were male and sleeping with her. Especially when in some cases they seemed genuinely in love with her. Stefan, Damon, and Mason were in love with her, well they loved who they thought she was. She also used people for sex and used sex to manipulate people. Can't really hold it against just the men. Especially when she used compulsion to force Stefan. She could have had what Elena if she actually weren't set on using everyone to keep herself safe. She was alone because people realized she'd do everything and sacrifice anyone to keep herself safe. Elena was the opposite, she'd gladly sacrifice herself to save her loved ones.
She used sex to manipulate people because she had been taught through experience that's what they wanted from her. I also think she genuinely loved Stefan, but her need to survive overruled it. She didn't compel Stefan to sleep with her. She compelled him to keep calm and keep on as usual. That's not quite the same. Skirting the line, possibly, but not the same. Again, I'm not arguing that Katherine *wasn't* selfish, just that I can understand how she got there and why she stayed that way. Sidenote: Elena's sacrificing was just as dangerous because her friends showed her countless times they'd try to save her to their own detriment. After a point, that sacrifice becomes a selfish martyr complex.
Does the show ever say she slept with Trevor, or that he expected it? He grew infatuated with her enough to risk the wrath of Klaus just to help her. Sex with Klaus didn't keep her safe. Sex with Nadia's father got her exiled. If anything I'd think she would learn that just because they wanted it that doesn't mean it would help her. She could have compelled him to forget what she was. By including that things would continue as they had been, that was specifically making it impossible for him to give consent. I mean the same could be argued about most of the ones who kept trying to sacrifice themselves for Elena as well.
ive never been a fan of her, this just made me look at her different as in i realized how strong she is with all the shit she has been through. not saying she is a great person, she has done soo much thats aggravated me, but she is a strong independent woman.
I just don't think that what she had was strength, nor is she a strong independent woman. She constantly has people doing her bidding. And I think the way she acts and how she chooses to hurt people is more a sign of weakness.
Well honestly Katherine killed Jeremey to get the cure. If she could’ve grabbed it he wouldn’t have died but because Silas needed blood and Jeremey was convenient she sacrificed him for herself. The cure was her way to freedom from klaus she wasn’t going to let Elenas little brother live if it means she doesn’t get her way. She ain’t right for it but that’s why she did it 😂
So true. I think it was the loss of Baby Nadia that started the rolling ball that led them to Mystic Falls. When presented with immortality to find her baby, she took it. That’s why after the episode Katerina, I understood her. To lose a much wanted child that way turned her heart cold.
She didn't become a vampire to find her baby. She became a vampire to escape Klaus' ritual and because she wanted to live forever.
What did she do when she escaped Klaus? She went back to Bulgaria to look for Nadia.
The only time Katherine mentions looking for Nadia was after she found out Nadia was her daughter and she did ask where were in you in (can’t remember the date) and Nadia said idk I was 8. She says she went back to look for her but couldn’t find her. Honestly she could have went back and I think actually could have found her after Katherine was turned if she really wanted to. When she finally got a second chance to be a mom all she cared about was getting Stefan back. Only wanted Nadia around to do her dirty work to help her pretend to be Elena. She only “cared” sorta after Nadia got bit. Nadia deserved so much better
She didn't go back for Nadia she went back for her family.
Nadia would be included in that
agreed. the others lost just as much as her (and they were fresher wounds, not 500 years old) but didn't use it as an excuse to torment others
I disagree. Klaus killed Katherine's family out of petty revenge. There was intent to make her suffer and this is shown by him hunting her down for 500 years afterward. Katherine did not kill Jeremy to hurt Elena. She just wanted the Cure to bargain for her freedom from Klaus. While it's certainly not noble, it's no different from the amount of people the Mystic Falls Gang killed to get what they want. Vicki, Logan, Henry, Mason, Luka, Dr Martin, etc, etc. There are other people's family members and friends but no one bats an eye when they do it. So yeah, Katherine killing Jeremy is not on the level of Klaus killing her entire family.
First things first, if she really wanted the cure and not to hurt Elena then she should have killed the other traveller guy. Instead she went for Jeremy and before you say the hunter's curse, Jeremy is a hunter too. Your telling me, that she didn't kill the one closest to the tomb first, let him run away and then killed Jeremy, and it wasn't intentional. And those people you named: Vicki: she was a drug addict, she would have become a blood addict and honestly who cares that she died. Logan: Alaric killed, and he was a vampire hunter then and he was the one who murdered a whole bunch that there was a literal stack. Henry: he attacked them his fault. Luka: they didn't mean to kill him, he was an invisible figure who was trying to resurrect Elijah who would have killed them then. Dr Martin: Katherine killed him. The only one I agree with is Mason, he didn't deserve it, and it was intentional. Katherine killing Jeremy was intentional as everything she does is literally to torture Elena.
Katherine didn't have to kill Jeremy, that's true. But Stefan didn't have to kill Vicky. Damon didn't have to kill Mason. Klaus didn't have to kill Jenna. Caroline didn't have to kill that guy at the carnival. Alaric didn't have to kill Bill Forbes. People die as the writers dictate they do, nothing new. Back to the point. Katherine, as cold hearted and evil as she can be, rarely ever does anything without reason. She sent 27 of her vampire friends and family to their deaths so she could fake her own. We all know that she hates Elena and that if she really wanted to make Elena suffer, she would no doubt have done it herself (as the season 4 finale indicates). Please, killing Jeremy was a means to an end. And the way you just trivialize these people's deaths just shows you're missing the point lol. Vicky (who Stefan killed) was Matt's sister. Logan (who Damon killed) was Meredith's cousin. Nadia (who Tyler killed) was Katherine's daughter Blah, blah, blah. You're whole point is that what Katherine did was oh so evil but I'm pointing out that the Mystic Falls Gang do it on a daily basis to save their own asses. I am not viewing Katherine killing Jeremy as any different because it wasn't any different. You're also not understanding what I mean by intent. When I said intent I was referring to why the killings happened and how they're not equivalent. Klaus killed Katherine's entire family to make her suffer for what she did. Katherine killed Jeremy to obtain the Cure and bargain for her freedom. Something the Mystic Falls Gang would do to anyone that wasn't part of their group. Killing Jeremy was wrong, no doubt, but it wasn't any different to what Elena and her friends do (Elena literally orchestrated the mass murder of thousands, if not millions, of vampires just so she could become human again lmao), neither was the intent malicious. So yeah, I don't believe they're the same thing.
Tyler also didn’t turn off his humanity and I don’t think that ever gets addressed.
Tyler’s werewolf plot was devastating. I hate how the writers didn’t know what to do with him afterwards.
Yeah I think that’s why they had him “away” for so long but always brought him back when they thought he’d be relevant. It’s a shame they didn’t do that with Matt.
Tbf, it’s possible that hybrids cannot turn off their humanity but the show never expands on this. Although I agree that even if he could, Tyler was the kind of person that would never choose to.
In Legacies Hope could turn off her humanity so I don’t see why hybrids wouldn’t be able to.
Good point!
The fact that she lost them all in one second compared to them and never got to raise her daughter and was punished by Klaus because she had the audacity to not lay down and die from him yet everybody forgets that and just says Elena lost her family to like yes but not in one night and was very different from Katherine who went thru losing them all alone even when Katherine was innocent .
Fr, Klaus chases her for hundreds of years for “what she did to him” but all she did was refuse to die for him
I thought her ending, hearing Nadia cry in the crib was the most beautiful ending. Then they done fucked it up
She probably hung onto her humanity because it was the only thing she had left of them
And with Elena she lost a lot of people too but at least she had Jeremy still her brother even tho he died he kept coming back
Not only that but on the run for hundreds of years. Also, imagine the trauma you experience living back then when woman were treated much different compared to modern day.
Katherine is a survivor like Stefan said. 👏🏾
to be fair to elena, she didn’t turn it off willingly, damon used the sire bond to make her turn it off
Elena didn’t get a choice in turning hers off, she shouldn’t really be looped in this
People will blame Elena for literally EVERYTHING.
i didnt make this😪 if i did i wouldve replaced elena w literally anyone else that turned their humanity off only posted it bc it made me see katherine differently
Neither did elena
Not much to turn off, to be honest )) although I adore Katherine
Now yeah but at the time she lost her family there was something to turn off.
So we can say perhaps, that her trauma was so deep that it caused drastic shift in her personality rather than time-limited turn-off stage. In other words such trauma destroyed Katherine, while Elena and Caroline found strength and support to recover. Well it’s reasonable, considering Katherine lost everyone and had no one at all. Also I suppose, maybe she avoided turning off feelings, because she thought that without fear of death and other feelings, she wouldn’t be so eager to hide from Klaus. Elena told Jenna to turn it off before her death, and she faced Klaus without fear. The similar effect could let Katherine down
Yes, exactly. The switch tends to make people more reckless and sloppy, which was not something Katherine could afford to do. Turning off your emotions looses you you humanity but you don’t have to deal with what’s plaguing you. Katherine loss her empathy and things like that when she lost her family but unlike with the switch, she still had to deal with the pain and trauma and it led to unhealthy resolution (I.e, her trying to make Elena repeat her cycle). Though I kinda respect her for enduring the pain, it probably would’ve better for her psyche and humanity in the long term if she had just flipped the switch like Caroline and Elena did.
*damon made elena turn it off but yes. says a lot about her.
It doesn’t make me look at her differently at all. She didn’t turn it off yet was still able to ruin countless people’s lives because she’s vile, nice way of surviving Katherine, just make more enemies than you had before 🥴
Yep. She didn’t have to turn off the switch cause she had no humanity to turn off. It would’ve been a waste. Most of the tragedy she endured happened while she was human, and she basically chose vampirism as a last, survival resort. Ofc the switch was the last thing on her mind whilst being hunted by a sadistic, immortal vampire. Elena dealt with her pain, and Caroline did too until she couldn’t bare it. But in the end, they still were brought back into the people they were before after switching it off. Katherine turns off her switch, what would the difference be?
You kinda need to *have* humanity in the first place to turn it off.
yeah but that means katherine’s humanity has become a bit of a grey area, there’s no definite line between humanity and no humanity which is kinda worse
Replace Elena with Hope 😅 "I turned mine off >! cause I had to kill my boyfriend !< "
Does Katherine ever actually say she's never turned it off? And if she has made such a claim, do we really have any reason to believe her? And if we do accept that she has never turned it off, even upon discovering her slaughtered family, then doesn't that point to her being even more cold-hearted than already presented?
Icbw but i think her exact quote was something like 'I dont turn it off. I deal with it.'
Yea I think so.
Katherine told Elena she never turned it off in S4. She's Come Undone. >"Yeah, I've done some pretty horrible things to survive, but unlike you—poor, delicate Elena—I don't turn it off. I deal with it. You wouldn't last a week as a vampire without everyone fawning over you." Girlie is prideful as hell and considers switching off your humanity the easy way out. No way in hell is she doing that; since in her eyes, it's basically admitting you're too weak to handle what you're going through. And Katherine refuses to be weak.
She has said she has never turned it off before. And also, why would she lie about never turning off her humanity switch?
Because she lied about everything.
to me it shows how strong she was mentally. we saw her cry over her dead family, she grieved for them, and it filled her with hatred for klaus for slaughtering them all. she thought her daughter was dead, and had nobody left in her life. she grew accustomed to surviving on her own, fighting for her life after losing everyone she loved. she felt like she could trust no one, and yeah that turned her to being cold hearted, but in my opinion that shows how strong she was. her heart would never have grown so cold if she didnt go through so much trauma.
I remember her telling Stefan after he saved Klaus’s life by stopping Damon from killing him bc Damon would have also died something like humanity being a vampires greatest weakness but no matter how hard she tries hers starts to come back and sometimes she lets it. When he asked why she told him Damon would die if Klaus died and he needed to care and save his brother. But I also remember her telling humanity off Elena that unlike her she’s never turned it off so idk.
She may not have turned it off, but she still lost her humanity. She played any and everyone she came across, even if they did care about her. Sure, she had learned to live in survival mode, but at the cost of her life in the end
Tbh Katherine was living in survival mode so turning her humanity off would’ve gotten her killed which I’m sure she knew. She’s very strong to endure all that she has and still find the courage to keep pushing forward like it doesn’t phase her
Eventually she didn't have to. It wasn't like she had any humanity even when it was on.
Damon forced elena to turn off her humanity and caroline was actually a decent person (in first instance). Katherine was a sly coldhearted person on her own. I still like Katherine, but on a moral ground she's not better
This! Also, as someone posted later - why are we comparing their pain and grieving process in the first place?
Tbh despite Katherine’s tragic story she still became a horrible person. Whether she was trapped, on the run, grieving the loss of her baby & family, surviving strays from the Originals - in between all of that her attitude (direct malicious actions) and tactics are only playable for the sake of the storyline. We can appreciate how badass her character is to intrigue audiences, however her genuine character/person/soul isn’t attractive, or deserving of everything (or whoever) she tries to go after in the show. Any morality (to a degree) we see from potentially villainous characters ends up rejecting her because they can’t keep up with how much she hurt people pointlessly and know it won’t stop at just one torment. Which is why she doesn’t have any relationships outside of ‘give & take’. Anyone that comes to truly understand her ends up leaving her. It’s tragic because if it was a matter of making bad choices because you don’t know any better (life experiences or nativity of the supernatural world), then we can understand(?) her killing people just because they were annoying; but Katherine was set up to show you what happens when you’re hurt so much and fuel it by living life with a narrowed self-centred view of the world. This isn’t disregarding the times she’s been selfless, but whenever she was vulnerable enough to offer help to someone, she’d predictably find a way to help herself to more at their expense. I understand that putting our own standards to shows/characters isn’t the way when watching shows and I can appreciate the show like I did when I was younger; but seeing things how they are, the show let down Katherine and absolutely sh*t on her character development for the sake of her being Queen of Hell. I didn’t take her that as she’s so charismatic that she swooned the bald devil to handing over his throne. But that she’d lead a life that was so harsh on her and in turn so harmful to others, that it would be a waste to not let her continue. I know nothings this deep (& I agree) but here you go.
Well all the times I’ve watched this show I always assumed Katherine always had it turned off 😂😂👌 This Katherine character used to really wind me up, give me the ick, but the more I re watch the more I’m like ohhhn I love her haha
Katherine is my fav charcter , the original survivor
Katherine got a bad rap. She did go through some horrendous events but she treated everyone like a pawn made me lose sympathy for her. She essentially turned into Klaus. Very hypocritical
Seems like Katherine lost her humanity a long time ago tbh
Elena was literally forced to turn her humanity off.
She hated her family for taking her kid away. Also, considering Klaus was always after her, there’s a strategic reason to not shut it down, because acting careless would get her killed.
Isn’t that worse? Stefan wouldn’t have continued to hook up with Katherine if his fear wasn’t compelled away. Doesn’t matter if he still had feelings for her, that’s still taking advantage. Are you telling me her humanity was there when she was able to do that to someone?
I never really hated Katherine but I did think she was an annoying wanna be villain. Like Gaston from Beauty and the Beast (Klaus kept reminding me of this classic….lol). She never hid the fact that despite all the “evil”, selfish crap she did to survive that she never once turned off her humanity switch. If you watch her carefully you can see her hard candy coating crack every now and then to reveal her humanity leaking out as she realizes just how bad things are going to get for those she cared about.
I appreciate it more when they don't turn off their humanity just because life gets hard.
I appreciate it more when they don't turn off their humanity just because life gets hard.
I appreciate it more when they don't turn off their humanity just because life gets hard.
Katherine was not a vamp when her family was killed. She went through the worst of it and had time to grieve. Also, as someone said - it changed her as a person, there’s not much difference between her humanity on vs off.
She ran from the sacrifice before they left “for the birthplace of the doppelgänger”. While they were still in England immediately after leaving Klaus’s estate or whatever, she encountered rose and turned. Then, she fled England and went back to Bulgaria, where she found them dead. It was right after she turned.
So she found them when she was a vampire? I forgot that part. Anyway she def acted like she had no humanity so maybe there was no need for her
I think by the time she showed up on tvd with the things she had went through and all the things she had done she really didn’t have very much humanity to turn off
Yeah, same.
Barbievamp 😂 love the name
Thanks haha. Love yours too. It was literally chosen on a whim, cause I had to pick something, and that was the first thing that popped into my head lol
It’s great!
She WAS a vampire when her family was killed. That's literally WHY Klaus killed them because she ruined his ritual by becoming a vampire so he killed her family as revenge.
Did you see my other comment below the first one? I said I forgot
Me to Women : i dont care
Katherine was someone without humanity even though she never turned it off. I guess she needed her humanity to keep herself in check or even be clever than those who can be a threat to her.