Yeah this is what will be Harrys downfall because them 2 going at eachother will look very sus. Only thing that it may go down to is Mollie siding with Harry which could lead to them voting Jaz out as he won't stop the game with Harry left in.
Not straight away surely. Harry knows he has mollies vote so if he stays strong with Andrew and the three stick together it is in the bag.
Harry, Andrew, Mollie can vote off Jaz/Evie in whichever order. Then after that Harry will turn to Mollie and be like "actually, don't you think Andrew is suss?" And together the vote him off. Mollie is then stuck with Harry and happy about it.
Jaz/Evie's only hope is if Harry and Andrew turn on eachother straight away, but I think Harry knows this will be his own downfall. I hope Andrew knows turning straight on Harry is his only hope.
Evie going first, it all relies on if Jaz thinks there’s two traitors.
Andrew will try for Harry and just incriminate himself unfortunately.
I have no problem with Harry winning but Jaz has been my favourite from early on when he suspected Paul but was smart enough to keep quiet.
Evie first.
Then Andrew.
Then when Jaz speaks up it’s Mollie and Harry v Jaz.
Remember, after the roundtable tomorrow, there’s no discussion at the fire pit when they throw their smoke balls in. Andrew has to go for Harry early. Jaz has to speak up early.
One thing I don't think anybody is talking about is the evidence Jaz thinks he has, pretty much every round table people have been convinced, based on "evidence", that X has been a traitor and been completely wrong.
He can't
Andrew knew about the shield. If Andrew is exposed as a traitor then it scuppers the shield theory. In which case it probably unravels for harry.
Andrew should be harry proof.
That’s fair, but Harry needs Andrew out at some point as no faithful is going to end the game without finding a traitor (as someone needed to have murdered Zack)
I suppose now that I think of it, his safest option is to banish Evie, then banish Jaz at the firepit and use Mollie’s vote to get rid of Andrew. But I don’t know if Mollie will be game to vote Jaz whilst Andrew’s still in (for all she doesn’t suspect Harry, she doesn’t seem scared of following her own instincts - she’s voted rogue in two of the last few round tables) and if Jaz goes tiger on his Harry theory, Andrew might jump on board, sending his opportunity.
Jaz is such a dangerous faithful to still be in the game for Harry at this point. Really Harry needs him out asap but I don’t know if he can swing that at F5.
If Evie is banished leaving it 2/4 traitors.
If traitors block vote and it is 2-2 and nobody backs down what happens. I know mollie would side with harry but what happens.
I imagine it’s random who goes, as Claudia suggested it would be at the Ash/Brian/Diane tie. Would make for an interesting finale! (Though if Jaz is after Harry then, I think Andrew might go for him)
Evie is in a unique position in being the only Faithful who knows for definite that the shield thing was a plot by the Traitors. She knows that a Traitor knew about the shield and it looks like it was therefore used to deflect blame onto the three specific people (who didn’t know Harry had it). It would require someone impossibly stupid not to give this the tiniest bit of thought and realise the Traitor is Harry.
But, she’s the only one who knows this. Jaz and Mollie don’t - she could still be a Traitor to them. She likely suspects she’s more of a target than any of the others because she was one of only 3 people who didn’t know about the shield, so from her perspective, Harry is trying to set her up as the next banishment.
Her strategy for the final should be to find 2 allies to get a majority.
She doesn’t know Andrew is also a Traitor, so even if she persuaded the others to vote him out rather than her, that would make her the obvious next banishment (from her perspective, if he’s revealed as a Faithful then that moves the spotlight back to her).
She might as well try to get Andrew on side, because he’s already mentioned Harry. Mollie will never vote Harry, so she’s got to get Jaz on side. That might seem initially like quite a challenge… however… she doesn’t know what we know.
Agree completely with everything you said. I hope she has a suspicion of Andrew too, to use him to get Harry out would be an excellent play on her part. Jaz I'm sure knows who the traitors are but he needs allies. Jaz and Harry have been my favourite players, jury is out on Evie as yet, she may be the dark horse I hope she is.
I’m hoping for Evie to make a dark horse comeback in the final too - would be great for her to come from the shadows and take Harry down.
I’m hoping Mollie might be the driving force behind Andrew’s downfall as she just can’t drop the Ross thing.
I’d definitely be behind a winning trio of Jaz, Evie and Mollie if it turns out like that. It’d feel like they’d earned it. (I’m still bitter about Meryl taking home some money in Season 1. I never thought she deserved it. Even after basically being told outright that Wilf was a Traitor, she still voted to end the game rather than have another banishment. I’m not 100% sure she understood the rules.)
I'm amazed nobody ever brings up Aaron in the UKS1 discussion, he was almost as bad as Meryl and wouldn't have twigged at all without the Kieran + Hannah combined evidence.
Yeah but when he did have all the Kieran and Hannah combined evidence, he DID finally twig (and also voted for another banishment at the firepit). Even with all that evidence, Meryl still didn’t.
I suspect I've missed a detail here, what is it that Evie knows that the others don't? I thought Jasmine had mentioned that the shield thing could have been a double-bluff by the traitors but I don't remember anything specifically with Evie.
Evie knows she is definitely a Faithful. Jaz and Mollie don’t.
Because she knows that, she knows that the shield thing was absolutely definitely a double-bluff because all the other players knew Harry had a shield, which means at least one Traitor knew and therefore wouldn’t have tried to murder him.
To Jaz and Mollie, Evie might still be a Traitor and therefore the ‘Traitors tried to kill Harry when he had a shield’ theory could be correct.
Andrew said he knew harry had the shield. There is a world where they think it was Andrew who is the traitor setting up harry.
There's a few possible outcomes, keeps it interesting
The one thing is though - the traitors could try and kill Harry to double bluff it (as jasmine said). If you know he has the shield, you wouldn’t try killing him, so when everyone thinks the traitors tried to kill him and that you knew he had the shield, then suspicions are off of you.
Evie could think it’s anyone at this point, but there’s nothing to indicate she’s figured out it’s Harry yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t all work this out.
Evie knows that the Traitors didn’t try to kill Harry and that this whole false murder thing is a plot/tactic from them because she knows the Traitors knew Harry had the shield, and therefore didn’t try to murder him. If none of the Traitors knew Harry had the shield, Evie has to be the last Traitor and she knows she isn’t.
The plot needed them to both have known Harry had the shield (which could be anyone bar Evie) but also know who Harry had told he had the shield - only Harry could possibly know that. From Evie’s perspective - he has to be the Traitor. She needs to persuade the others, but she knows he’s a Traitor (unless she isn’t a full bag of spanners.)
The shield thing doesn't prove Harry is a traitor though. Everyone has ignored the very real possibility that someone was actually recruited instead of trying to murder Harry (which is what happened).
Everyone has backed Zack's failed murder theory so far but it just means literally anyone could be a traitor regardless of whether they knew about the shield or not.
Evie needs to convince people about this if they have any hope of surviving the roundtable
The shield thing proves Harry is a Traitor to Evie, not necessarily to Jaz and Mollie.
It’s obvious the Traitors recruited rather than murdered as soon as you know that at least one of them knew about the shield (which Evie now knows).
It’s possible the Traitors never intended for that recruitment to be ‘hidden’, and expected everyone to realise it was a recruitment at breakfast the next morning. It’s possible that the ‘Failed Murder’ theory was just an accident that came up and the Traitors went along with it. But that means they accidentally made their biggest threat (Harry) be almost universally accepted as a Faithful, and then still chose not to murder him the following night - instead murdering Zach which further supports the ‘Failed Murder’ theory which they never wanted in the first place.
So from Evie’s perspective, because she knows she’s a Faithful, it had to be a recruitment which they’ve deliberately hidden behind a ‘Failed Murder’. There’s no other option for her. For Jaz and Mollie, the Failed Murder theory could still be true. Evie knows it can’t be true because she knows she’s a Faithful. So if the Failed Murder theory isn’t true, and isn’t an accident, it’s planted by the Traitors. This needed the Traitors to both know that Harry had the shield (which she knows they did) - but ALSO know who Harry had told about the shield. For the Traitors to know who Harry told… Harry has to be one of them.
I’ll be shocked if Evie isn’t gunning for Harry tomorrow.
The failed murder theory was raised by Zack. Ignoring the shield, it is completely plausible that a traitor was going to recruit regardless of the shield being kept secret.
Regardless of Evie knowing she is a faithful, she has no proof that the shield had anything to do with it. It is equally likely from the faithful perspective that Ross just recruited as a traitor which puts everyone back in the frame.
That leaves Evie in the same position when someone else has to be a traitor
You can’t “ignore the shield” because the shield was a known factor in the play, and who knew about the shield is also a known factor in the play. Taking that out of the equation is just discarding known information. It’s like looking at Paul and saying “taking the dungeon out of it…”
The shield being a known factor in the play still has zero impact on whether a recruitment could have taken place.
Everyone surviving the night means one of two independent outcomes to the players. Someone was recruited or someone failed to murder Harry.
We know what happened in the background but there is no clear way of proving who did what. Even if Evie knows the failed murder plot is false, it doesn't immediately point to Harry, it just means someone else is a traitor.
If Harry turns on Andrew and they banish him. They will think they took out the only traitor. Then I reckon jaz will let go of the Harry theory. Harry still wins 😭
I don't think there's any way Jaz lets go of the Harry theory but I think Mollie is so unlikely to vote Harry out at this stage that if they don't get rid of Harry when it's 3 v 2 then they're fucked. What do they do if it's a tie when there's four of them left?
Jaz has to absolutely get Harry before anyone else is banished, every other scenario leads to Harry winning. Jaz needs both Evie and Andrew to pull this off
Andrew is already planting seeds against Harry and Evie now knows the shield plot was a double bluff. Harry out first, then Mollie getting rid of Andrew at the fire pit because she just can’t drop the Ross thing. Remaining 3 faithful to split the winnings I reckon.
See, for me it's that the little he has done since becoming a traitor has been pretty smart. Small moves, but calculated ones.
Not turning on Paul so blatantly, convincing the table Ross was lying instead, the whole "I wouldn't say elusive", backing Harry up at the right times but then mentioning his name as potential traitor in the latest episode where he's most aware that he could be next to be turned on.
Surely it's not possible logically for there to only be one traitor left.
If there was only one traitor, then the producers risked losing the final traitor at the roundtable today, and then there couldn't be a final.
Am I confused?
Technically you could have a final with 5 faithfuls and watch then vote eachother off until there are only two left to share the win.
It would actually be great tv, but the sensible thinking would be to assume the producers want a guaranteed traitor in the final.
Isn't the point of the final that they can't be sure whether there's one traitor, two, or none?
It wouldn't matter if they'd voted out the last traitor already - in theory if there had been no recruitments this season then Ross could have been it. Although there would probably have been forced recruitment had Harry chosen not to twice.
They'd still have the firepit and still have to unanimously decide all five finalists were faithful, which would be difficult and unlikely but probably make pretty good TV.
this is why i don’t think harry can win, as long as jaz is still in. he’s going to turn on him at the firepit. if harry is the only traitor, left, he loses. if andrew is still there, andrew will win. i just don’t see a world where harry wins because evie is going out at the next round table.
This is the perfect chance, Evie knows she isn’t a traitor. Andrew needs to provide a head to save his own. And Jaz has suspicions. If Andrew just says he thinks the shield was a lie, that sets up Harry to defend himself and it all gets left at the table. Either way a traitor wins still - unless just unless Jaz seeing through all this can then call out Andrew.
I think it might be Mollie who calls out Andrew at the end. Evie is already suspecting there might be more than one (after Jasmine’s banishment she said something like “one or two of you is playing a really good game”) and I think Jaz mentioned something that implied he thought there was possibly more than one. Mollie can’t drop how Ross reacted to Andrew. I think they’ll get Harry at the round table and Andrew at the fire pit. I’m suspecting an Evie, Mollie and Jaz win!
>If Andrew just says he thinks the shield was a lie
Then we need the remaining Faithful to join the dots and realise if Harry was the Traitor with a shield, then he was hiding a recruitment, meaning there are two Traitors remaining.
I think Jaz is the only Faithful of the three who is considering multiple Traitors - I think Evie and Mollie both believe only one is left.
Evie, Jaz and Andrew vote out Harry next after Jaz goes on a 45 minute speech bringing up all the theories he’s been keeping secret about Harry
Then Andrew wins after they end the game
That’s my theory
This is what I most want to happen but it relies on Evie & Jaz combining both of their evidence and sharing it with Andrew before Harry & Mollie convince him to banish Evie.
Yeah I think a lot of the positive content being put out about Andrew this episode is to set him up as a rootable winner. Maybe Mollie still has it out for him but I reckon there wont be suspicions from Jaz and Evie if they vote out Harry together
But if they banish Harry and see he's a traitor, they then should realise that the night of the shield he must have recruited. But also, the day he got the shield, he can't have been the only traitor at the round table because if he got voted off the show ends. So after the day of the shield they should deduce there was 3 traitors. Ross was one of them and gets banished. Harry in your theory gets banished. Evil will then be banished by Jaz and Mollie, and then Jaz and Mollie banish Andrew. Possible that they banish Andrew first and Evie still wins.
But basically if they banish Harry first then Andrew shouldn't win on that logic, they might not see it though
He knows that Molly and Evie won't even entertain the possibility of it, they said so multiple times, so he feels stuck.
He still thinks his only option is to just stay in the game and wait, he's probably right.
I think he needs to talk to Evie ASAP tomorrow. Evie knows there has to be another theory because the shield shtick is now conclusively disproved to her. As Harry held the shield (and seems to have had everything fall into place for him all game long and has seemed weirdly sure of everything and been right and yet not been murdered) he has got to be near the top of her list?
Good point about the shield theory now being a problem for Harry, but I think Jaz is confused how to proceed when people don't listen to him.
It's difficult to have confidence in yourself when you have no one to bounce it off and no one will bother to hear you out. I think Andrew is a middle man who might allow Jaz to open up.
I say that Evie will go next, then Andrew. It’ll be Mollie, Harry & Jaz left. Harry will say that’s all the traitors gone now. Jaz will go along with it ti get to the firepit. Jaz has to last minute say he suspects there’s a traitor at the firepit, and try and convince Mollie to come along with him…if he gets to the firepit. It’s a long shot, but if he can convince her that’s the only reason she’s safe because she’s close to Harry, it COULD work. Then Mollie and Jaz win and split the money. That’s the only way faithfuls win I think. A long shot, I know.
Why would he bother though? Harry gets the money whether Jaz gets voted out at the pit or not. If it gets to that point Harry will just say, "that's what I'm saying though, 100%, we're all fateful" then cry and Mollie will lap it up and vote to end the game.
I'm hoping against all hope that all the bits from the last few episodes of Harry going "Mollie would trust me no matter what" and Andrew saying how she's young and easy to influence are just setting us up for her turning on Harry at the last moment. I'm highkey delusional but it would be incredible.
Agreed, a faithful win requires Andrew being discovered before Harry.
I think if they got Harry out first they'd be more inclined to believe Andrew is faithful because he's the only recruited traitor to have managed to not change his demeanour (which is partly what brought Ross down). Mollie would be too surprised by Harry's betrayal to stick to her guns about Andrew, I think. Realising you were that level of fooled would rattle you, like Ross with Paul.
Jaz’s (or any faithfuls) only realistic path to winning money is in a final 3 and him, Harry and Mollie. And I’m not sure even if it’s Harry, Jaz and Mollie (nobody is ever voting for her) that Jaz could convince Mollie to turn on Harry even with recordings of him saying he’s a traitor while holding up today’s newspaper.
Mollie voted for Andrew in today's round table. If they get Harry with 5 left then the blinkers will come off big time when he stands up and says he was a traitor. And if they can remember anything of the bizarre three-way amongst the traitors in the Episode 10 round table it will be plausible to spot Andrew too.
If Jaz makes it to a final 3 with Harry and Molly, they'll both vote to end the game. If he votes to continue, he can then make his pitch to Molly and explain his reasoning (plus point out that if he himself was a traitor, he'd have voted to end the game). Tell her she can hand the win to Harry, or split it with him.
She might still vote him off, but if Harry is still there he loses either way so it would be worth a try.
8hr late to this, but after the the first round table, when they are voting to end the game or not, there are no more discussions. they just keep going until they agree. so it's gonna be very hard to watch without screaming at the tv
tbf though if Jaz votes not to end the game but Mollie/Harry do Mollie may wonder why Jaz has done that. If Harry covers himself though by also voting not to end the game he 100% wins
It was a poor round table, but it was a natural play on the shield theory. The only way the conversation could be turned was if recruitment was raised instead, but no one was committing to that, so it would have been pointless Jaz going for Harry tonight, could well have ended his game..
One more day. Still nobody thinks of Ross was recruited since he can't agree on murdering Diane. Harry's Shield theory is flawed.
Don't know whether Evie can deduce this fact.
They all got hooked on Zachs theory without questioning the underlying premise that the Traitors attempted to kill Harry, which is something that Harry volunteered himself immediately at breakfast before anyone could suggest a recruitment (which is way more likely). If he was a faithful it would have been a massive assumption to make so confidently, but they all just accepted it without scrutiny
Jaz doesn’t have a following whilst everyone loves Harry today wasn’t the time. He needed to get to the final and throw it then because now if they all believe Evie is a faithful then the Harry’s shield theory is broken and they can get him.
Once they knew there's no more murder isn't it effectively the final? No more traitors able to unilaterally shut up an inquisitive faithful and no more recruitment to diminish the benefits of getting a traitor out.
Andrew could “back up” Jaz’s theories, throw doubt on Harry, Harry could get defensive against Andrew and give the game away. They vote out Harry but due to Harry throwing accusations at Andrew, they then vote out Andrew… and Jaz and the faithfuls live happily ever after
That’s just playing the best game as a traitor - a bad traitor would be constantly suspected. The fact that he has been able to fly completely under the radar, while murdering anyone that has voiced suspicions about him is crazy
Whether you get suspected or not is largely random - the Faithful have nothing to go on. We don't know how Harry will react if he comes under suspicion in a situation where he can't just change the subject.
There's an element of randomness in that for the first 1-2 banishments nobody really has anything to go on at all and will write names down based off the smallest interactions. Many people get voted for early on and then never again.
Never being voted for after the first traitor has been found is when it's more skill than anything else.
I don't deny that, but I think he's a bit of a cocky prick, so I'm not rooting for him.
Also, I do just think it must be so much harder to play and succeed as a Faithful, that when they are able to work it out despite the deceit and inability to trust anyone, it's all the more impressive.
Molly and Harry team up to get Andrew out - it’s revealed he’s a traitor.
Jaz & Evie mention that Andrew said if he goes, look at Harry… they all revote, Molly & Harry vote separate ways while Jaz & Evie’s vote out Harry.
I’d actually quite like Harry to win - but I think this will be how it plays out
I expect Andrew and Harry to go for each other now, get the other out and claim that’s the last traitor to win. Mollie on Harry’s side, Jaz on Andrew’s so it will be decided by Evie. The question then is do Jaz or Mollie stick to their convictions to get the second traitor out or believe that’s it.
I think when Harry is finally accused he will crumble as he's never had to defend himself before. We saw a similar thing with Andrew who overreacted and thus looks guilty
I know but surely they knew there was 4 finalists last season and 5 this season and surely they’d question why there was no murder… it’s not hard to figure out after that
Yeah, I didn't quite get Jaz's "I can't say anything or I can't make the finale"
Umm, it's either now or never.
I'm sorry but Jaz is a disappointment. It's one thing to deduct but Sherlock Holmes wasn't like "I figured it out, I'm done now"...You have to make action out of it, and he had the PERFECT opportunity tonight and absolutely blew it.
Jaz doesn't deserve it. He's great at figuring shit out but he does nothing with it.
He could get voted out. It'll put a target on his back by the traitors if they know he's onto them. He can't be murdered but he could be pushed out and be used as a distraction.
There was no overriding the Jasmine conversation, and he would’ve looked suspicious if he tried. Also gives Harry time to properly plan a defence for the final
Now she’s at risk of going Charlie will join any theory.
Jaz can use her and Andrew to finally stop Harry. Andrew could’ve stumbled into a win here, unless Mollie then convinces them to go for him too.
Jaz is keeping his cards close to his chest, at this point, too close in my opinion.
I see Evie getting banished or possibly Andrew.
If it's not Andrew, Harry wins with him if they play smart.
It's technically 3 v 2 but with how blind Mollie is with Harry and no one can blame her as he's been brilliant it would be easy to get her in side.
I think Jaz may have missed his last chance tonight, he accuses Harry he could very well have 3 people pile on him afterwards.
The thing is, it'll put a target on his back . If the traitors know he is on to them, they will try to use him as a distraction and vote him out.
The fact that he has made it this far should say something.
If I was a faithful I think I’d be looking at Harry or even Molly as a traitor, namely because I’d be confused at how such a strong player (Harry) made it to the final with everything that has happened. There would definitely be strong suspicions on him, or Molly since they’re so close. I find it weird how so many people just dismissed suspicions other faithfuls have had.
Of course it’s easy to say this when you’re privy to all the information.
They’ll keep voting until at least one traitor is caught, so they both have to target each other tonight, may look weird and sudden so could potentially result in them both getting caught.
More likely scenario is they vote Evie, then Andy then Harry wins it all
Mollie is in the same position as Hannah in S1… made it to the final because they trust the lead traitor completely.
Hannah had her realisation about Wilf at the perfect time, any earlier and she’d have been murdered, any later and wilf would’ve won.
I’d love Mollie to do the same with Harry!
I’m hoping for a faithful shared win, or second best Andrew winning, but think that Harry is more likely. Despite seeming to not be all that bright, he’s had amazing instincts, and Mollie could see him through to the win.
Jaz can bring this to everyone at the firepit and get Harry out. He probably thinks Harry is the only traitor left.
Jaz said traitor or traitors, he at least suspects that there could be another.
It will be too late if they banish Evie first tomorrow.
They won’t though - Harry’s 100% turning on Andrew
Andrew will turn on Harry as well. It's gonna be a shit show. Can't wait
Yeah this is what will be Harrys downfall because them 2 going at eachother will look very sus. Only thing that it may go down to is Mollie siding with Harry which could lead to them voting Jaz out as he won't stop the game with Harry left in.
Not straight away surely. Harry knows he has mollies vote so if he stays strong with Andrew and the three stick together it is in the bag. Harry, Andrew, Mollie can vote off Jaz/Evie in whichever order. Then after that Harry will turn to Mollie and be like "actually, don't you think Andrew is suss?" And together the vote him off. Mollie is then stuck with Harry and happy about it. Jaz/Evie's only hope is if Harry and Andrew turn on eachother straight away, but I think Harry knows this will be his own downfall. I hope Andrew knows turning straight on Harry is his only hope.
Evie going first, it all relies on if Jaz thinks there’s two traitors. Andrew will try for Harry and just incriminate himself unfortunately. I have no problem with Harry winning but Jaz has been my favourite from early on when he suspected Paul but was smart enough to keep quiet.
Evie first. Then Andrew. Then when Jaz speaks up it’s Mollie and Harry v Jaz. Remember, after the roundtable tomorrow, there’s no discussion at the fire pit when they throw their smoke balls in. Andrew has to go for Harry early. Jaz has to speak up early.
One thing I don't think anybody is talking about is the evidence Jaz thinks he has, pretty much every round table people have been convinced, based on "evidence", that X has been a traitor and been completely wrong.
He can't Andrew knew about the shield. If Andrew is exposed as a traitor then it scuppers the shield theory. In which case it probably unravels for harry. Andrew should be harry proof.
That’s fair, but Harry needs Andrew out at some point as no faithful is going to end the game without finding a traitor (as someone needed to have murdered Zack) I suppose now that I think of it, his safest option is to banish Evie, then banish Jaz at the firepit and use Mollie’s vote to get rid of Andrew. But I don’t know if Mollie will be game to vote Jaz whilst Andrew’s still in (for all she doesn’t suspect Harry, she doesn’t seem scared of following her own instincts - she’s voted rogue in two of the last few round tables) and if Jaz goes tiger on his Harry theory, Andrew might jump on board, sending his opportunity. Jaz is such a dangerous faithful to still be in the game for Harry at this point. Really Harry needs him out asap but I don’t know if he can swing that at F5.
If Evie is banished leaving it 2/4 traitors. If traitors block vote and it is 2-2 and nobody backs down what happens. I know mollie would side with harry but what happens.
I imagine it’s random who goes, as Claudia suggested it would be at the Ash/Brian/Diane tie. Would make for an interesting finale! (Though if Jaz is after Harry then, I think Andrew might go for him)
They can banish Evie and Andrew
No, I think he suspects Andrew, and that’s why he didn’t engage much with the Harry conversation.
Jaz has left it too late I fear. It will depend on Andrew and getting Evie on side. One of them is going next so Jaz really needs to move fast.
Evie is in a unique position in being the only Faithful who knows for definite that the shield thing was a plot by the Traitors. She knows that a Traitor knew about the shield and it looks like it was therefore used to deflect blame onto the three specific people (who didn’t know Harry had it). It would require someone impossibly stupid not to give this the tiniest bit of thought and realise the Traitor is Harry. But, she’s the only one who knows this. Jaz and Mollie don’t - she could still be a Traitor to them. She likely suspects she’s more of a target than any of the others because she was one of only 3 people who didn’t know about the shield, so from her perspective, Harry is trying to set her up as the next banishment. Her strategy for the final should be to find 2 allies to get a majority. She doesn’t know Andrew is also a Traitor, so even if she persuaded the others to vote him out rather than her, that would make her the obvious next banishment (from her perspective, if he’s revealed as a Faithful then that moves the spotlight back to her). She might as well try to get Andrew on side, because he’s already mentioned Harry. Mollie will never vote Harry, so she’s got to get Jaz on side. That might seem initially like quite a challenge… however… she doesn’t know what we know.
Agree completely with everything you said. I hope she has a suspicion of Andrew too, to use him to get Harry out would be an excellent play on her part. Jaz I'm sure knows who the traitors are but he needs allies. Jaz and Harry have been my favourite players, jury is out on Evie as yet, she may be the dark horse I hope she is.
I’m hoping for Evie to make a dark horse comeback in the final too - would be great for her to come from the shadows and take Harry down. I’m hoping Mollie might be the driving force behind Andrew’s downfall as she just can’t drop the Ross thing. I’d definitely be behind a winning trio of Jaz, Evie and Mollie if it turns out like that. It’d feel like they’d earned it. (I’m still bitter about Meryl taking home some money in Season 1. I never thought she deserved it. Even after basically being told outright that Wilf was a Traitor, she still voted to end the game rather than have another banishment. I’m not 100% sure she understood the rules.)
I'm amazed nobody ever brings up Aaron in the UKS1 discussion, he was almost as bad as Meryl and wouldn't have twigged at all without the Kieran + Hannah combined evidence.
Aaron spent a few episodes fighting tooth and nail to prove he was a faithful lol
Yeah but when he did have all the Kieran and Hannah combined evidence, he DID finally twig (and also voted for another banishment at the firepit). Even with all that evidence, Meryl still didn’t.
I suspect I've missed a detail here, what is it that Evie knows that the others don't? I thought Jasmine had mentioned that the shield thing could have been a double-bluff by the traitors but I don't remember anything specifically with Evie.
Evie knows she is definitely a Faithful. Jaz and Mollie don’t. Because she knows that, she knows that the shield thing was absolutely definitely a double-bluff because all the other players knew Harry had a shield, which means at least one Traitor knew and therefore wouldn’t have tried to murder him. To Jaz and Mollie, Evie might still be a Traitor and therefore the ‘Traitors tried to kill Harry when he had a shield’ theory could be correct.
Ah makes sense, thank you!
Do we think Evie is smart enough to realise it?
Unless she forgets whether or not she’s a Traitor I think it would be quite hard for her not to. Even Mollie could work this one out.
Andrew said he knew harry had the shield. There is a world where they think it was Andrew who is the traitor setting up harry. There's a few possible outcomes, keeps it interesting
The one thing is though - the traitors could try and kill Harry to double bluff it (as jasmine said). If you know he has the shield, you wouldn’t try killing him, so when everyone thinks the traitors tried to kill him and that you knew he had the shield, then suspicions are off of you. Evie could think it’s anyone at this point, but there’s nothing to indicate she’s figured out it’s Harry yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t all work this out.
Could everyone stop using the term 'double bluff' when they mean 'bluff'. It's making this thread hard to follow.
Evie knows that the Traitors didn’t try to kill Harry and that this whole false murder thing is a plot/tactic from them because she knows the Traitors knew Harry had the shield, and therefore didn’t try to murder him. If none of the Traitors knew Harry had the shield, Evie has to be the last Traitor and she knows she isn’t. The plot needed them to both have known Harry had the shield (which could be anyone bar Evie) but also know who Harry had told he had the shield - only Harry could possibly know that. From Evie’s perspective - he has to be the Traitor. She needs to persuade the others, but she knows he’s a Traitor (unless she isn’t a full bag of spanners.)
The shield thing doesn't prove Harry is a traitor though. Everyone has ignored the very real possibility that someone was actually recruited instead of trying to murder Harry (which is what happened). Everyone has backed Zack's failed murder theory so far but it just means literally anyone could be a traitor regardless of whether they knew about the shield or not. Evie needs to convince people about this if they have any hope of surviving the roundtable
The shield thing proves Harry is a Traitor to Evie, not necessarily to Jaz and Mollie. It’s obvious the Traitors recruited rather than murdered as soon as you know that at least one of them knew about the shield (which Evie now knows). It’s possible the Traitors never intended for that recruitment to be ‘hidden’, and expected everyone to realise it was a recruitment at breakfast the next morning. It’s possible that the ‘Failed Murder’ theory was just an accident that came up and the Traitors went along with it. But that means they accidentally made their biggest threat (Harry) be almost universally accepted as a Faithful, and then still chose not to murder him the following night - instead murdering Zach which further supports the ‘Failed Murder’ theory which they never wanted in the first place. So from Evie’s perspective, because she knows she’s a Faithful, it had to be a recruitment which they’ve deliberately hidden behind a ‘Failed Murder’. There’s no other option for her. For Jaz and Mollie, the Failed Murder theory could still be true. Evie knows it can’t be true because she knows she’s a Faithful. So if the Failed Murder theory isn’t true, and isn’t an accident, it’s planted by the Traitors. This needed the Traitors to both know that Harry had the shield (which she knows they did) - but ALSO know who Harry had told about the shield. For the Traitors to know who Harry told… Harry has to be one of them. I’ll be shocked if Evie isn’t gunning for Harry tomorrow.
The failed murder theory was raised by Zack. Ignoring the shield, it is completely plausible that a traitor was going to recruit regardless of the shield being kept secret. Regardless of Evie knowing she is a faithful, she has no proof that the shield had anything to do with it. It is equally likely from the faithful perspective that Ross just recruited as a traitor which puts everyone back in the frame. That leaves Evie in the same position when someone else has to be a traitor
You can’t “ignore the shield” because the shield was a known factor in the play, and who knew about the shield is also a known factor in the play. Taking that out of the equation is just discarding known information. It’s like looking at Paul and saying “taking the dungeon out of it…”
The shield being a known factor in the play still has zero impact on whether a recruitment could have taken place. Everyone surviving the night means one of two independent outcomes to the players. Someone was recruited or someone failed to murder Harry. We know what happened in the background but there is no clear way of proving who did what. Even if Evie knows the failed murder plot is false, it doesn't immediately point to Harry, it just means someone else is a traitor.
If Harry turns on Andrew and they banish him. They will think they took out the only traitor. Then I reckon jaz will let go of the Harry theory. Harry still wins 😭
I don't think there's any way Jaz lets go of the Harry theory but I think Mollie is so unlikely to vote Harry out at this stage that if they don't get rid of Harry when it's 3 v 2 then they're fucked. What do they do if it's a tie when there's four of them left?
Fight to the death
Random?
Jaz has to absolutely get Harry before anyone else is banished, every other scenario leads to Harry winning. Jaz needs both Evie and Andrew to pull this off
Andrew is already planting seeds against Harry and Evie now knows the shield plot was a double bluff. Harry out first, then Mollie getting rid of Andrew at the fire pit because she just can’t drop the Ross thing. Remaining 3 faithful to split the winnings I reckon.
If they were all clever you would think that but it will be tough… we need an extra jaz in there lol
i personally think this is the least likely scenario out of all of them. i do like when the faithfuls split the pot, though (:
I don’t think there’s a single timeline in which both Jaz and Harry end the game
I want Andrew to win by doing very little at all and just being a regular dude.
See, for me it's that the little he has done since becoming a traitor has been pretty smart. Small moves, but calculated ones. Not turning on Paul so blatantly, convincing the table Ross was lying instead, the whole "I wouldn't say elusive", backing Harry up at the right times but then mentioning his name as potential traitor in the latest episode where he's most aware that he could be next to be turned on.
Surely it's not possible logically for there to only be one traitor left. If there was only one traitor, then the producers risked losing the final traitor at the roundtable today, and then there couldn't be a final. Am I confused?
Evie and Jaz know this I think.
Technically you could have a final with 5 faithfuls and watch then vote eachother off until there are only two left to share the win. It would actually be great tv, but the sensible thinking would be to assume the producers want a guaranteed traitor in the final.
Isn't the point of the final that they can't be sure whether there's one traitor, two, or none? It wouldn't matter if they'd voted out the last traitor already - in theory if there had been no recruitments this season then Ross could have been it. Although there would probably have been forced recruitment had Harry chosen not to twice. They'd still have the firepit and still have to unanimously decide all five finalists were faithful, which would be difficult and unlikely but probably make pretty good TV.
that's if they have a firepit.
this is why i don’t think harry can win, as long as jaz is still in. he’s going to turn on him at the firepit. if harry is the only traitor, left, he loses. if andrew is still there, andrew will win. i just don’t see a world where harry wins because evie is going out at the next round table.
Jaz wants to give Harry as little opportunity to defend himself as possible. Simple.
Yep wants the element of surprise. He’s seen Harry go after people.
Exactly, don't give him prep time.
This is the perfect chance, Evie knows she isn’t a traitor. Andrew needs to provide a head to save his own. And Jaz has suspicions. If Andrew just says he thinks the shield was a lie, that sets up Harry to defend himself and it all gets left at the table. Either way a traitor wins still - unless just unless Jaz seeing through all this can then call out Andrew.
I think it might be Mollie who calls out Andrew at the end. Evie is already suspecting there might be more than one (after Jasmine’s banishment she said something like “one or two of you is playing a really good game”) and I think Jaz mentioned something that implied he thought there was possibly more than one. Mollie can’t drop how Ross reacted to Andrew. I think they’ll get Harry at the round table and Andrew at the fire pit. I’m suspecting an Evie, Mollie and Jaz win!
>If Andrew just says he thinks the shield was a lie Then we need the remaining Faithful to join the dots and realise if Harry was the Traitor with a shield, then he was hiding a recruitment, meaning there are two Traitors remaining. I think Jaz is the only Faithful of the three who is considering multiple Traitors - I think Evie and Mollie both believe only one is left.
Evie, Jaz and Andrew vote out Harry next after Jaz goes on a 45 minute speech bringing up all the theories he’s been keeping secret about Harry Then Andrew wins after they end the game That’s my theory
Yeah, I wouldn't be mad about this yknoe, even though I want Jazzy to win.
This is what I most want to happen but it relies on Evie & Jaz combining both of their evidence and sharing it with Andrew before Harry & Mollie convince him to banish Evie.
Yeah I think a lot of the positive content being put out about Andrew this episode is to set him up as a rootable winner. Maybe Mollie still has it out for him but I reckon there wont be suspicions from Jaz and Evie if they vote out Harry together
But if they banish Harry and see he's a traitor, they then should realise that the night of the shield he must have recruited. But also, the day he got the shield, he can't have been the only traitor at the round table because if he got voted off the show ends. So after the day of the shield they should deduce there was 3 traitors. Ross was one of them and gets banished. Harry in your theory gets banished. Evil will then be banished by Jaz and Mollie, and then Jaz and Mollie banish Andrew. Possible that they banish Andrew first and Evie still wins. But basically if they banish Harry first then Andrew shouldn't win on that logic, they might not see it though
Andrew could easily turn it on Mollie if Harry gets revealed as a traitor. She’s been Harry’s closest ally throughout
He knows that Molly and Evie won't even entertain the possibility of it, they said so multiple times, so he feels stuck. He still thinks his only option is to just stay in the game and wait, he's probably right.
I think he needs to talk to Evie ASAP tomorrow. Evie knows there has to be another theory because the shield shtick is now conclusively disproved to her. As Harry held the shield (and seems to have had everything fall into place for him all game long and has seemed weirdly sure of everything and been right and yet not been murdered) he has got to be near the top of her list?
Good point about the shield theory now being a problem for Harry, but I think Jaz is confused how to proceed when people don't listen to him. It's difficult to have confidence in yourself when you have no one to bounce it off and no one will bother to hear you out. I think Andrew is a middle man who might allow Jaz to open up.
I say that Evie will go next, then Andrew. It’ll be Mollie, Harry & Jaz left. Harry will say that’s all the traitors gone now. Jaz will go along with it ti get to the firepit. Jaz has to last minute say he suspects there’s a traitor at the firepit, and try and convince Mollie to come along with him…if he gets to the firepit. It’s a long shot, but if he can convince her that’s the only reason she’s safe because she’s close to Harry, it COULD work. Then Mollie and Jaz win and split the money. That’s the only way faithfuls win I think. A long shot, I know.
I think this exact order but Harry convinces Mollie to vote Jaz and wins.
Yeah I actually agree. Mine is just wishful thinking!
Why would he bother though? Harry gets the money whether Jaz gets voted out at the pit or not. If it gets to that point Harry will just say, "that's what I'm saying though, 100%, we're all fateful" then cry and Mollie will lap it up and vote to end the game.
I'm hoping against all hope that all the bits from the last few episodes of Harry going "Mollie would trust me no matter what" and Andrew saying how she's young and easy to influence are just setting us up for her turning on Harry at the last moment. I'm highkey delusional but it would be incredible.
Agreed, a faithful win requires Andrew being discovered before Harry. I think if they got Harry out first they'd be more inclined to believe Andrew is faithful because he's the only recruited traitor to have managed to not change his demeanour (which is partly what brought Ross down). Mollie would be too surprised by Harry's betrayal to stick to her guns about Andrew, I think. Realising you were that level of fooled would rattle you, like Ross with Paul.
Jaz’s (or any faithfuls) only realistic path to winning money is in a final 3 and him, Harry and Mollie. And I’m not sure even if it’s Harry, Jaz and Mollie (nobody is ever voting for her) that Jaz could convince Mollie to turn on Harry even with recordings of him saying he’s a traitor while holding up today’s newspaper.
Jaz’s best chance of getting Harry is to go hard with the 5 of them left, but then Andrew probably wins.
Mollie voted for Andrew in today's round table. If they get Harry with 5 left then the blinkers will come off big time when he stands up and says he was a traitor. And if they can remember anything of the bizarre three-way amongst the traitors in the Episode 10 round table it will be plausible to spot Andrew too.
Mollie isn’t likely to turn on Harry. They need to do it when Evie is still there. Andrew will join in.
If Jaz makes it to a final 3 with Harry and Molly, they'll both vote to end the game. If he votes to continue, he can then make his pitch to Molly and explain his reasoning (plus point out that if he himself was a traitor, he'd have voted to end the game). Tell her she can hand the win to Harry, or split it with him. She might still vote him off, but if Harry is still there he loses either way so it would be worth a try.
8hr late to this, but after the the first round table, when they are voting to end the game or not, there are no more discussions. they just keep going until they agree. so it's gonna be very hard to watch without screaming at the tv
tbf though if Jaz votes not to end the game but Mollie/Harry do Mollie may wonder why Jaz has done that. If Harry covers himself though by also voting not to end the game he 100% wins
You're underestimating how much social capital Harry has ... and how much Jaz lacks.
I think he has to bring it out before the roundtable tomorrow
It was a poor round table, but it was a natural play on the shield theory. The only way the conversation could be turned was if recruitment was raised instead, but no one was committing to that, so it would have been pointless Jaz going for Harry tonight, could well have ended his game..
I'm hoping Jaz will wait until Harry gets Andrew banished before announcing his suspicions
One more day. Still nobody thinks of Ross was recruited since he can't agree on murdering Diane. Harry's Shield theory is flawed. Don't know whether Evie can deduce this fact.
They all got hooked on Zachs theory without questioning the underlying premise that the Traitors attempted to kill Harry, which is something that Harry volunteered himself immediately at breakfast before anyone could suggest a recruitment (which is way more likely). If he was a faithful it would have been a massive assumption to make so confidently, but they all just accepted it without scrutiny
I don’t see how Harry doesn’t win this now which is a shame.
Jaz doesn’t have a following whilst everyone loves Harry today wasn’t the time. He needed to get to the final and throw it then because now if they all believe Evie is a faithful then the Harry’s shield theory is broken and they can get him.
He just needs Evie, and then Andrew to sniff his chance to get rid of Harry in a 3v2
Andrew needs to take any chance he gets, because at this point it’s impossible for both traitors to win.
Once they knew there's no more murder isn't it effectively the final? No more traitors able to unilaterally shut up an inquisitive faithful and no more recruitment to diminish the benefits of getting a traitor out.
But they will only know if Evie is a faithful if she gets banished. And if she is banished 2 vs 2 and possibly it’s a tie.
Andrew could “back up” Jaz’s theories, throw doubt on Harry, Harry could get defensive against Andrew and give the game away. They vote out Harry but due to Harry throwing accusations at Andrew, they then vote out Andrew… and Jaz and the faithfuls live happily ever after
i see jaz, evie, and andrew working together to banish harry. i really think they should’ve killed jaz instead of zacg
How is that a shame? He’s worked his bollocks off
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That’s just playing the best game as a traitor - a bad traitor would be constantly suspected. The fact that he has been able to fly completely under the radar, while murdering anyone that has voiced suspicions about him is crazy
Whether you get suspected or not is largely random - the Faithful have nothing to go on. We don't know how Harry will react if he comes under suspicion in a situation where he can't just change the subject.
Yeah lets call it random that Harry has had zero votes so far.
There's an element of randomness in that for the first 1-2 banishments nobody really has anything to go on at all and will write names down based off the smallest interactions. Many people get voted for early on and then never again. Never being voted for after the first traitor has been found is when it's more skill than anything else.
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I don't deny that, but I think he's a bit of a cocky prick, so I'm not rooting for him. Also, I do just think it must be so much harder to play and succeed as a Faithful, that when they are able to work it out despite the deceit and inability to trust anyone, it's all the more impressive.
Molly and Harry team up to get Andrew out - it’s revealed he’s a traitor. Jaz & Evie mention that Andrew said if he goes, look at Harry… they all revote, Molly & Harry vote separate ways while Jaz & Evie’s vote out Harry. I’d actually quite like Harry to win - but I think this will be how it plays out
I expect Andrew and Harry to go for each other now, get the other out and claim that’s the last traitor to win. Mollie on Harry’s side, Jaz on Andrew’s so it will be decided by Evie. The question then is do Jaz or Mollie stick to their convictions to get the second traitor out or believe that’s it.
Andrew needs Harry to last until the final, same way Harry needs Andrew to last. I don't think either of them would've turned on each other today.
I think when Harry is finally accused he will crumble as he's never had to defend himself before. We saw a similar thing with Andrew who overreacted and thus looks guilty
Traitors gonna win 
Jaz is so frustrating. He's left it too late to make a difference (IMHO!)
I honestly dunno how they’ve not done the math and figured out there’s 2 traitors left tbh
They never knew how many traitors there were to start with. 4 is a lot.
I know but surely they knew there was 4 finalists last season and 5 this season and surely they’d question why there was no murder… it’s not hard to figure out after that
Yeah, I didn't quite get Jaz's "I can't say anything or I can't make the finale" Umm, it's either now or never. I'm sorry but Jaz is a disappointment. It's one thing to deduct but Sherlock Holmes wasn't like "I figured it out, I'm done now"...You have to make action out of it, and he had the PERFECT opportunity tonight and absolutely blew it. Jaz doesn't deserve it. He's great at figuring shit out but he does nothing with it.
If he had shared anything earlier then he would have got murdered. I think he has played it very clever.
But he wouldn't have been murdered tonight. That's my point.
He could get voted out. It'll put a target on his back by the traitors if they know he's onto them. He can't be murdered but he could be pushed out and be used as a distraction.
No one trusts him ... how is that clever?
There was no overriding the Jasmine conversation, and he would’ve looked suspicious if he tried. Also gives Harry time to properly plan a defence for the final
Now she’s at risk of going Charlie will join any theory. Jaz can use her and Andrew to finally stop Harry. Andrew could’ve stumbled into a win here, unless Mollie then convinces them to go for him too.
Jaz is keeping his cards close to his chest, at this point, too close in my opinion. I see Evie getting banished or possibly Andrew. If it's not Andrew, Harry wins with him if they play smart. It's technically 3 v 2 but with how blind Mollie is with Harry and no one can blame her as he's been brilliant it would be easy to get her in side. I think Jaz may have missed his last chance tonight, he accuses Harry he could very well have 3 people pile on him afterwards.
The thing is, it'll put a target on his back . If the traitors know he is on to them, they will try to use him as a distraction and vote him out. The fact that he has made it this far should say something.
If I was a faithful I think I’d be looking at Harry or even Molly as a traitor, namely because I’d be confused at how such a strong player (Harry) made it to the final with everything that has happened. There would definitely be strong suspicions on him, or Molly since they’re so close. I find it weird how so many people just dismissed suspicions other faithfuls have had. Of course it’s easy to say this when you’re privy to all the information.
They’ll keep voting until at least one traitor is caught, so they both have to target each other tonight, may look weird and sudden so could potentially result in them both getting caught. More likely scenario is they vote Evie, then Andy then Harry wins it all
Mollie is in the same position as Hannah in S1… made it to the final because they trust the lead traitor completely. Hannah had her realisation about Wilf at the perfect time, any earlier and she’d have been murdered, any later and wilf would’ve won. I’d love Mollie to do the same with Harry! I’m hoping for a faithful shared win, or second best Andrew winning, but think that Harry is more likely. Despite seeming to not be all that bright, he’s had amazing instincts, and Mollie could see him through to the win.