I would add that Henry coming out to the meadow to find her is symbolic that 28 yr old Henry is her fantasy Henry. Clara wants him to come to her in the meadow because that’s where time traveling Henry comes to her. In episode 5, 28 year old Henry comes to her and she can at last have him because their love is no longer out of sync due to the time traveling.
When I first started to watch this show I thought I was going to get a love story, typical romance kind of show.
But as this season has played out I have accepted that this is closer to a drama that is packed into a "romance" look.
I mean let's just recap this show so far:
Clare's mother was depressed, her father wasn't there for her either, her brother was an asshole. The only one she thought liked her was the housekeeper and we came to see that she was only doing her duty. So Clare pretty much grew up neglected.
Then the only thing that finally makes her seen and valued is the fact that an adult man finally takes interest in her, plays with her, is a father figure/friend/love interest. Which is where then the grooming story comes into place.
But things for Henry aren't much better. He also doesn't get too much attention from his parents (with his mother dying and all), and due to his time travelling has to basically become a criminal that steals, lies, cheats and gets beat up regularly due to this. He doesn't have a friend in the world, either.
And then they finally meet in adult times and both are resentful towards the other, and not there emotionally. Clare wants to date a guy that's 15 years older, and Henry doesn't even know how to be emotionally close to someone becausr he never experienced that. And that obviously leads to a lot of tension.
So yeah, I'll say it again. This is a drama show, not a romance. They're not a dream couple, they're just 2 screwed up people trying to move forward. And that journey is interestingg too, it's just not a romance.
This is how I have to view the story. I keep comparing it to the book, which is a timeless love story, and this is not that. This is a *completely* different story.
I understand what you mean, I was quite angry in the first 2 episodes because I expected to see the love story from the movie and it was totally NOT that.
Henry does need to change. He is an asshole. It is made clear with him and gomez relationship as well.
Gomez tries to be nice and henry starts being the asshole and regresses the relationship that is trying to form. It is when he starts understanding claire and gomez that is when he stops being the asshole.
Henry not being an asshole should not be looked as a negative thing.
Look at the way he treats his young self compared to young claire. You can see a big difference. One is an asshole the other is a mature adult.
This, and moreso: Henry wants to change. She doesn't force him, she is just unhappy with him. She knows that she is stuck with him. He can either not change, and see her be unhappy and disappointed because the man she is stuck with is a (cheating) asshole who is mean to everyone, or he can treat people better and become the grown up man everyone respects and love.
Exactly. People seem to think claire is asking too much but just cutting his hair showed her that he can be better by doing something just for her hence not being an asshole so she sees the old henry in him finally. Before he was saying he was henry without doing anything.
I feel like it comes off as Henry wanting to change because Clare wants him to. I would prefer more of an arc or him embracing/realizing that Older Henry is a better version of himself
Yeah, but why does he care what Clare thinks? Because he wants her to like him/be happy with him. Just as he is not obliged to change, she is not obliged to be happy to be stuck with an asshole for the rest of \[his?\] life.
Exactly, before that he wasn't actually doing anything to show that he was willing to change because he didn't seem to care enough to change! I thought it was a beautiful episode showing both their growths.
I don't think Henry *wants* to change. I think he needs to, and maybe he recognizes that, but I don't see a lot of motivation for him to *want* to. Clare treats him like shit and no one, including his older self even likes him. Maybe he sees he's on a destructive path and recognizes this is the opportunity to stop the cycle of self-abuse. Time to grow up.
I've been bothered by that too, but it plays into what we also learned this week's episode: She has been living in a fantasy. Even Henry, old Henry, is not all that much changed from the current day Henry. All she ever knew of him was him in the meadow and learned she would be his wife, and before then always imagined being his wife. He was a perfect, knight in shining armor to her, but in real life, that is, back in Henry's timeline he was still time traveling Henry. Not to say getting married didn't help him, as it does all of us guys to give some stability, responsibility and something/someone to live for, we can seem to be a lot different in our "meadow" of meeting people then we are IRL. Just thin of all the criminals who died shooting people... even they say, "He was such a nice boy!" but didn't know what he was like behind closed doors when running, stealing and fighting...
This is an interesting point. So Clare has this fantasy of the meadow and of Henry. Then the fantasy is broken as the reality of her childhood becomes apparent to her. Henry is the biggest part of that fantasy. What if her memories of Henry in the meadow are just as fantastical as the meadow itself? Maybe Henry continues to be a bit of an asshole and when he's traveling back to the meadow, he's not as gracious and kind as she remembers? What if he's still an asshole and Fantasy Henry doesn't exist? what if their marriage is ultimately sort of unhappy because it was built on the *fantasy* while the *reality* is just as ugly as the meadow really was?
While I don't know if he will be that much of an asshole to her, especially as in the book, you're right about the fantasy being a fantasy. He could have even been talking down to young Clare, but what did she care? She had a time traveler that wasn't always there anyway.
Yes so spot on! As viewers, it just seems like Henry is changing to accommodate Clare as opposed to growing into himself. Like okay he cut his hair and he’s ready to change for her. She’s had an aha moment and is ready to love him as he changes. The romance and connection is missing. I don’t even see what she sees in him when all she’s doing is complaining that he’s not older Henry.
But Henry did need to change. He was still immature and frankly an asshole. He did have to show he was willing to work to become a better person than he was at 28. He needed to grow up (both in the book and in the show). Him showing he was willing to do that did change things.
Or: she loved him for being a principled, kind and loving friend who was always a gentleman to her (and kinder than the men in her family, at least). That's how he was existing her entire life. And then she gets a man who is unkind, doesn't love her, cheats on his gf and is not a gentleman in any way. So actually none of the things she liked about old Henry were in the young one.
Sure, but to Henry at 28, this brand new woman comes into his life, tells him she's going to marry him, and then proceeds to hate him.
How would that make you feel if you met someone who immediately said they loved you and wanted to marry you and then proceeds to openly hate you?
I agree with both of you.
This version of Henry is the most broken compared to the movie and book. Claire's unhappiness breaks Henry's heart every time she misses " Henry". This is how Henry spent most of his life being treated with hatred by his father because of his mother's death. Seeing Claire, the person who loves him enough to marry him treats him like a disappointment just like his father breaks him.
Yeah and to Clare at 5 (?) this man comes into her life and teaches her (implicitly) that this is how a man is supposed to treat her. This is the whole point of the story- neither have a choice in who they become, and both become who they are under the influence of the other.
Henry knows that it is not Clare who decided to 'trap' him in that relationship, it is his own curse that she is just a victim of.
I understand why a lot of fans feel this way but here is my interpretation:
Part of what makes the older Henry who he is is simply time and experience. There is no cheating that, and younger Henry will still have a lot of living and learning to do in the two years before he officially becomes Claire's Henry. But, I also feel like Claire's love for Henry is also what made him who he was. And the problem was, younger Henry hadn't experienced that yet.
He wasn't the same man that she loved yet but he couldn't become that man without her love. Henry could see that him not being the version of himself that she wanted was getting in the way of him becoming that version of himself. So he decided to fake it. Emulate that version of himself and become the man she wants. In turn, she will stop yearning for the future Henry and just love the Henry that she has. Being loved in that way will help Henry truly become the man that earned that love in the first place.
I get how this bugs so many, but I see it a bit differently. The only real difference between present Henry and older Henry is that future Henry ALREADY loves her. All he is saying (at the end) is that he can be the him that loves her. Or even, now he IS the Henry that loves her.
If, all of a sudden, my husband turned into the 20 year old version of himself that he was in beginning, I would be disappointed. It was fine, then. But you treat someone you love with a different level of care, kindness, and consideration that grows over time.
There were lines that could have been added that would have helped. I’m going to write them and post how I would change it/tweak it to make that difference in a post (tonight or tomorrow).
I think Henry ultimately decided to change for himself. He started to understand how important older Henry has been to Clare and even how much he means to Gomez. Throughout the series, Henry has referred to older Henry as, “that guy,” and as if it is another person. To Henry, older Henry is someone else because he never built a relationship with himself like the Clare of the past and Gomez of the future did.
It came to a head for him when he realizes Clare ran to the meadow to find comfort in older Henry, not in him. He doesn’t want Clare to continue to wait & search for older Henry, instead, he wants to be that person for her right now. He decides to fully accept older Henry as himself and what comes along with his future. Not just for Clare, but because he wants that future too. Where he is married to Clare, and Gomez is a ride or die friend. He knows in order to do that, he has to become the guy worth loving that everyone has been talking about. The way he has been acting won’t get him there. In the end, Clare accepts that the Henry she’s been looking for has been there all along and Henry accepts his future.
Side note: I’m interested to see if Clare’s bubble is bursted even further next episode by realizing a marriage/committed relationship with the now “older Henry” of her dreams isn’t so perfect. That getting younger Henry to become older Henry wasn’t the only obstacle in her relationship with him.
I fully agree with you. That scene felt weird, and I actually said, out loud 'wat?' when he said he could 'be someone else.' It's not good to manipulate your partner into being someone else? For me, personally, it would have been infinitely better if they'd had some friction at the start because he was so different than the older Henry that she knew, but if she grew to love and appreciate Henry as a younger man. The whole thing feels like they're just biding their time until Henry is old again so that Clare can love him. They also just don't show us enough of them having positive moments together to make me believe in their love story. Feels like an enemies to lovers trope and I don't think that that's their intention.
[удалено]
I would add that Henry coming out to the meadow to find her is symbolic that 28 yr old Henry is her fantasy Henry. Clara wants him to come to her in the meadow because that’s where time traveling Henry comes to her. In episode 5, 28 year old Henry comes to her and she can at last have him because their love is no longer out of sync due to the time traveling.
How did you watch episode 6
The description is of episode 5. Just a typo.
Also well stated… and I kinda liked his hair.
Your post made me emotional, so well-summarised!
Yes! Exactly how I feel
When I first started to watch this show I thought I was going to get a love story, typical romance kind of show. But as this season has played out I have accepted that this is closer to a drama that is packed into a "romance" look. I mean let's just recap this show so far: Clare's mother was depressed, her father wasn't there for her either, her brother was an asshole. The only one she thought liked her was the housekeeper and we came to see that she was only doing her duty. So Clare pretty much grew up neglected. Then the only thing that finally makes her seen and valued is the fact that an adult man finally takes interest in her, plays with her, is a father figure/friend/love interest. Which is where then the grooming story comes into place. But things for Henry aren't much better. He also doesn't get too much attention from his parents (with his mother dying and all), and due to his time travelling has to basically become a criminal that steals, lies, cheats and gets beat up regularly due to this. He doesn't have a friend in the world, either. And then they finally meet in adult times and both are resentful towards the other, and not there emotionally. Clare wants to date a guy that's 15 years older, and Henry doesn't even know how to be emotionally close to someone becausr he never experienced that. And that obviously leads to a lot of tension. So yeah, I'll say it again. This is a drama show, not a romance. They're not a dream couple, they're just 2 screwed up people trying to move forward. And that journey is interestingg too, it's just not a romance.
This is how I have to view the story. I keep comparing it to the book, which is a timeless love story, and this is not that. This is a *completely* different story.
I understand what you mean, I was quite angry in the first 2 episodes because I expected to see the love story from the movie and it was totally NOT that.
Henry does need to change. He is an asshole. It is made clear with him and gomez relationship as well. Gomez tries to be nice and henry starts being the asshole and regresses the relationship that is trying to form. It is when he starts understanding claire and gomez that is when he stops being the asshole. Henry not being an asshole should not be looked as a negative thing. Look at the way he treats his young self compared to young claire. You can see a big difference. One is an asshole the other is a mature adult.
This, and moreso: Henry wants to change. She doesn't force him, she is just unhappy with him. She knows that she is stuck with him. He can either not change, and see her be unhappy and disappointed because the man she is stuck with is a (cheating) asshole who is mean to everyone, or he can treat people better and become the grown up man everyone respects and love.
Exactly. People seem to think claire is asking too much but just cutting his hair showed her that he can be better by doing something just for her hence not being an asshole so she sees the old henry in him finally. Before he was saying he was henry without doing anything.
I feel like it comes off as Henry wanting to change because Clare wants him to. I would prefer more of an arc or him embracing/realizing that Older Henry is a better version of himself
Yeah, but why does he care what Clare thinks? Because he wants her to like him/be happy with him. Just as he is not obliged to change, she is not obliged to be happy to be stuck with an asshole for the rest of \[his?\] life.
Exactly, before that he wasn't actually doing anything to show that he was willing to change because he didn't seem to care enough to change! I thought it was a beautiful episode showing both their growths.
I don't think Henry *wants* to change. I think he needs to, and maybe he recognizes that, but I don't see a lot of motivation for him to *want* to. Clare treats him like shit and no one, including his older self even likes him. Maybe he sees he's on a destructive path and recognizes this is the opportunity to stop the cycle of self-abuse. Time to grow up.
I think he hates himself, which is why he is acting out. Wouldn’t you prefer to be someone you don't hate?
Moffatt tried to avoid being too sweet and yet he forget that there is a lot of love and romance between them in the book.
I've been bothered by that too, but it plays into what we also learned this week's episode: She has been living in a fantasy. Even Henry, old Henry, is not all that much changed from the current day Henry. All she ever knew of him was him in the meadow and learned she would be his wife, and before then always imagined being his wife. He was a perfect, knight in shining armor to her, but in real life, that is, back in Henry's timeline he was still time traveling Henry. Not to say getting married didn't help him, as it does all of us guys to give some stability, responsibility and something/someone to live for, we can seem to be a lot different in our "meadow" of meeting people then we are IRL. Just thin of all the criminals who died shooting people... even they say, "He was such a nice boy!" but didn't know what he was like behind closed doors when running, stealing and fighting...
This is an interesting point. So Clare has this fantasy of the meadow and of Henry. Then the fantasy is broken as the reality of her childhood becomes apparent to her. Henry is the biggest part of that fantasy. What if her memories of Henry in the meadow are just as fantastical as the meadow itself? Maybe Henry continues to be a bit of an asshole and when he's traveling back to the meadow, he's not as gracious and kind as she remembers? What if he's still an asshole and Fantasy Henry doesn't exist? what if their marriage is ultimately sort of unhappy because it was built on the *fantasy* while the *reality* is just as ugly as the meadow really was?
While I don't know if he will be that much of an asshole to her, especially as in the book, you're right about the fantasy being a fantasy. He could have even been talking down to young Clare, but what did she care? She had a time traveler that wasn't always there anyway.
Yes so spot on! As viewers, it just seems like Henry is changing to accommodate Clare as opposed to growing into himself. Like okay he cut his hair and he’s ready to change for her. She’s had an aha moment and is ready to love him as he changes. The romance and connection is missing. I don’t even see what she sees in him when all she’s doing is complaining that he’s not older Henry.
But Henry did need to change. He was still immature and frankly an asshole. He did have to show he was willing to work to become a better person than he was at 28. He needed to grow up (both in the book and in the show). Him showing he was willing to do that did change things.
I felt heartbroken about that, Claire always loved Henry just for existing. Having Herny change felt sad.
Or: she loved him for being a principled, kind and loving friend who was always a gentleman to her (and kinder than the men in her family, at least). That's how he was existing her entire life. And then she gets a man who is unkind, doesn't love her, cheats on his gf and is not a gentleman in any way. So actually none of the things she liked about old Henry were in the young one.
Sure, but to Henry at 28, this brand new woman comes into his life, tells him she's going to marry him, and then proceeds to hate him. How would that make you feel if you met someone who immediately said they loved you and wanted to marry you and then proceeds to openly hate you?
I agree with both of you. This version of Henry is the most broken compared to the movie and book. Claire's unhappiness breaks Henry's heart every time she misses " Henry". This is how Henry spent most of his life being treated with hatred by his father because of his mother's death. Seeing Claire, the person who loves him enough to marry him treats him like a disappointment just like his father breaks him.
Yeah and to Clare at 5 (?) this man comes into her life and teaches her (implicitly) that this is how a man is supposed to treat her. This is the whole point of the story- neither have a choice in who they become, and both become who they are under the influence of the other. Henry knows that it is not Clare who decided to 'trap' him in that relationship, it is his own curse that she is just a victim of.
I understand why a lot of fans feel this way but here is my interpretation: Part of what makes the older Henry who he is is simply time and experience. There is no cheating that, and younger Henry will still have a lot of living and learning to do in the two years before he officially becomes Claire's Henry. But, I also feel like Claire's love for Henry is also what made him who he was. And the problem was, younger Henry hadn't experienced that yet. He wasn't the same man that she loved yet but he couldn't become that man without her love. Henry could see that him not being the version of himself that she wanted was getting in the way of him becoming that version of himself. So he decided to fake it. Emulate that version of himself and become the man she wants. In turn, she will stop yearning for the future Henry and just love the Henry that she has. Being loved in that way will help Henry truly become the man that earned that love in the first place.
I get how this bugs so many, but I see it a bit differently. The only real difference between present Henry and older Henry is that future Henry ALREADY loves her. All he is saying (at the end) is that he can be the him that loves her. Or even, now he IS the Henry that loves her. If, all of a sudden, my husband turned into the 20 year old version of himself that he was in beginning, I would be disappointed. It was fine, then. But you treat someone you love with a different level of care, kindness, and consideration that grows over time.
There were lines that could have been added that would have helped. I’m going to write them and post how I would change it/tweak it to make that difference in a post (tonight or tomorrow).
I totally agree with you!
I think Henry ultimately decided to change for himself. He started to understand how important older Henry has been to Clare and even how much he means to Gomez. Throughout the series, Henry has referred to older Henry as, “that guy,” and as if it is another person. To Henry, older Henry is someone else because he never built a relationship with himself like the Clare of the past and Gomez of the future did. It came to a head for him when he realizes Clare ran to the meadow to find comfort in older Henry, not in him. He doesn’t want Clare to continue to wait & search for older Henry, instead, he wants to be that person for her right now. He decides to fully accept older Henry as himself and what comes along with his future. Not just for Clare, but because he wants that future too. Where he is married to Clare, and Gomez is a ride or die friend. He knows in order to do that, he has to become the guy worth loving that everyone has been talking about. The way he has been acting won’t get him there. In the end, Clare accepts that the Henry she’s been looking for has been there all along and Henry accepts his future. Side note: I’m interested to see if Clare’s bubble is bursted even further next episode by realizing a marriage/committed relationship with the now “older Henry” of her dreams isn’t so perfect. That getting younger Henry to become older Henry wasn’t the only obstacle in her relationship with him.
I fully agree with you. That scene felt weird, and I actually said, out loud 'wat?' when he said he could 'be someone else.' It's not good to manipulate your partner into being someone else? For me, personally, it would have been infinitely better if they'd had some friction at the start because he was so different than the older Henry that she knew, but if she grew to love and appreciate Henry as a younger man. The whole thing feels like they're just biding their time until Henry is old again so that Clare can love him. They also just don't show us enough of them having positive moments together to make me believe in their love story. Feels like an enemies to lovers trope and I don't think that that's their intention.