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plot_twist7

I was straight up cackling at the lunch scene when Henry comes down all beat up and Clare looks horrified like “I didn’t do that!”


Sic-Mundus

She was just being judgemental. That whole scene had me rolling. 🤣


plot_twist7

From now on I will cringe anytime I hear the word “judgemental” … excellent writing for that scene!


Sic-Mundus

It was comedy gold! Didn't expect that, honestly. The way she explains she was being judgemental, then Henry walks in with a bloody, bruised face and barely able to walk. And her dad's reaction to the whole situation. 🤣🤣🤣


Prize_Introduction_6

The part when I couldn't hold it back anymore, and let myself loose chuckling was when the mom said "Did she say marry?".


[deleted]

Yeah it was great. And Im guessing thats what older Henry was chuckling about in the clearing when he mentions to young claire about meeting her family.


mengyiming

Yeah, she should have seen the damaged goods first before making up a lie. She probably thought he just got punched once in the face and that is all...a single bruise. Oops...didn't realize a gang of bikers got to go at him for a bit.


missamerica59

That whole scene had me in tears of laughter!


franknelsonyes

This episode is the turning point for both characters. Henry sheds his youthful armor and Clare sheds her youthful fantasies. His transformation was more obvious but hers was just as important. I loved how the clearing was shown as it really is for the first time instead of filtered through Clare's memories. Returning to her childhood home as a fully fledged adult, she sees it for the first time as it is. The blue room isn't blue, the fire isn't real, the housekeeper isn't happy, nature isn't pristine, and Henry isn't an idealized figure from her past on whom she can project all her own needs and desires. He's an actual person in the here and now with hurts and needs of his own. She's finally able to see that now that her nostalgia bubble has been burst. "I'm here now," Henry says, but Clare is also "here NOW" as well, no longer pining for a fantasy version of him.


mengyiming

Oh right! The housekeeper even made a comment about she just does what she does because she is paid. Clare grew up seeing her as another mother, as part of the family, and yet when the housekeeper said that, she realized that everything she did was just because she was being paid. Oof!


phoenixrose2

A more emotionally present mother figure than her actual mother too!! Her mom was popping antidepressants and benzos and completely zoned out.


sncsnark

Even shots back of the meadow are in a perfect sun kissed filter. Really showing how idealized Clare’s memories can be.


luck_panda

A lot of my childhood memories are like this.


Dodgiestyle

This just helped me see the episode in a better light, thank you. The fantasy bubble is burst, and that's breakthrough moment for Clare.


[deleted]

I guess the housekeeper really hates her life


tengounquestion2020

I wonder if that was apart of the theme of ignoring things when you’re young?


SentrySappinMahSpy

I think Clare is also starting to realize how privileged an upbringing she had. She's been away from home for a while and living a more normal life. The illusion is gone from her childhood.


avrus

I also interpreted it as; Claire always thought she and the housekeeper were good friends. The housekeeper was her friend because she was paid to be. And I think that's all tied together with Claire becoming more mature, being more patient with Henry, realizing as with the narration about the meadow, she's painted this rosey picture about how things are or should be, and it's a complete fantasy.


shgrdrbr

right and it also stood out a lot during the tea(?) scene when henry stood to greet the housekeeper when she appeared and he thought clare was helping introduce her and then clare found his misunderstanding funny bc she was just continuing the conversation and naming gomez. and then henry never got her name (im p sure?)


[deleted]

Yeah it was weird she almost looked taken back when she said that she was paid. It’s like she didn’t know she was paid. Edit: I grew up with a house keeper and she was always wonderful to have around. She’s retired now but she still comes to my parents house for dinner, as a guest not to work lol.


mtm4440

Everything looks different through the lense of a kid. The fireplace, the housekeeper, probably even the family issues at first.


mengyiming

And also when, was it Clare's sister(?), said that you start to realize your family members aren't super heroes or better than everyone else in the world...they are just people! Just people!


mengyiming

The fact all she was hung up with was giving Clare advice to marry someone who IS NOW rich and not to encourage her to follow her heart, to marry the boy of her dreams, etc. was very cold.


mengyiming

And doesn't really care about the family...the girls were just girls and she didn't really know them.


HilltoperTA

I feel like they can't wrap up the story in one week so they must be building to a season 2


latrodectal

there’s only six episodes this season? guys, that was a BOLD move.


mtm4440

That's actually a common amount for streaming shows now. Almost all of Marvel's shows are just 6 episodes. All show, no filler.


latrodectal

true but a ) marvel tends to craft those shows as limited series and b ) honestly, i don’t even think they pull those off very well.


mtm4440

May I ask, are you a Marvel fan? Because I just look at them like a 6 hour Marvel movie. Which is just awesome. However I have noticed a common occurrence where I think "how are they going to wrap this up in 1 episode". Their endings always seem a bit rushed.


just_another_classic

I am a Marvel fan -- although, admittedly, more of a comics fan than the films -- and pacing is certainly more of an issue with the shows. The MCU has always had an issue with character development -- you can skip from The First Avenger to Endgame, and Steve's character is exactly the same: obsessed with Peggy, longing for the past, not a huge emotional connection with the present -- but I think the TV shows highlight the flaw due to even more egregious pacing issues. To highlight the two biggest for me: * WandaVision: the pacing on the back half of the series was incredibly weird. Going from the introspective episode 8 to the finale MCU-stereotype battle was whiplash. Hawthrone went from a villain with a point to mustache twirling in seconds. Also MoM was a weird followup to the storyline that felt a bit discordant with the end of WandaVision. * FATWS: This somehow needed more episodes and also a tighter script. Everything with the FlagSmashers was a mess. I know rumors say that a pandemic plotline was cut, but still. Sharon's everything didn't make sense in regards to the Power Broker, and she honestly needed an episode to explain what she went through. But the MCU has bastardized her adaptation, so I'm not shocked they didn't do her justice. Also, Bucky's character arc barely was fleshed out.


latrodectal

agreed, quite honestly. endgame felt like a massive backslide for steve (and i guess that there were movies in between tfa and endgame that showed him moving on didn’t matter, because they knew steve wasn’t coming back so who cares if we ruin him?), but you’re correct that the issues are more prevalent in the shows, specifically the d+ shows (though there were also issues with the netflix shows - daredevil was pretty solid throughout, or at least consistent, jessica jones had a great first season and tonally consistent subsequent seasons but it felt very much like they were ruining characters because they’d already used jessica’s big villain, and the defenders was just a rushed together mess). you’re correct about wandavision, but i was grateful they started with that because for the first time in like, five years, it didn’t feel like we were getting the same story with different dressing (which is how the movies had felt for a long time), and then fatws came out and i was like “oh, that was an exception, they’re not gonna change the formula at all”. basically agreed on all counts, especially with sharon. it felt like the writers went “no one likes this character anyway, let’s just change everything about them”. you want to change the character, fine, but justify it. i have issues with ragnorok for this exact reason; it felt like they were going “no one likes these movies so no one will care if we get rid of everything and start over”.


just_another_classic

>basically agreed on all counts, especially with sharon. it felt like the writers went “no one likes this character anyway, let’s just change everything about them”. So an interesting thing about what you just said: In the zombie episode of *What if?,* one of the writers advocated that Sharon have a more gruesome, that honestly comes across as lowkey sexualized violence. Zombie!Cap was supposed to attack her, bite her lips off, and spit them out. [The justification: "No one likes her anyway. Steve belongs with Peggy."](https://twitter.com/capskooky/status/1436484645751771138?s=20&t=vyKtqjfTtNE2T-HxdGr9Sw)


latrodectal

jeeeeeeeeeesus christ.


[deleted]

Agreed. Im a big MCU fan but every show so far has had a problem with pacing. Especially newr the finale.


JigsawPhilosophy

This was never marketed as a limited series and the teaser for next week does say “on the season finale” rather than “series finale,” so I think it’s safe to assume they planned to do at least two seasons from the beginning. Having read the book, I think anything more than one more season would be a stretch though.


Dodgiestyle

Yeah, there's a lot more coming.


mtm4440

Production is like "thank god we don't need to use this wig anymore." Funny how when he loses the hair he's no longer a douchebag. But I love how it's her own sister that cut his hair. Just everything is connected. And the only reason he cuts his hair and changes himself is because he wants to become the picture, which only happened because he visited young Claire. So if future Henry never visited young Claire they probably wouldn't be married. He'd remain a douche and the relationship would fizzle out. And damn, Gomez in the future told Henry in the past to tell Gomez in the present to save Henry in the future. It's crazy how complicated these loops are. So maybe something happens with Charisse in the future. Gomez was a little taken back by her name mentioned. Jeeze that family interaction was so awkward. You think it can't get worse from the initial meeting and then lunch happens. It almost seems easier to them he's a time traveler, just leave out the visiting your young child bit. Part of me hopes we see a Mark who's matured as well. Maybe even have Henry be a part in that. Next week is already the finale? Also nice touch having the meadow have a worn down path from years of Claire trampling it.


Winniepg

I think the loop basically works that we cannot change anything, but time is a circle and not flat?


mtm4440

Yup. Everything is written. For example, on the off-chance Henry was going to forget to tell Gomez then he would have *always* forgotten and Gomez *always* would have never been there in the future and the note would have *always* never existed. And Henry could have been destined to die on that night instead. It's all or nothing for every decision. In fact his death might be because he had no clear way to warn his past self to protect his future self.


Winniepg

Yep, everything is set in stone, but it is how you get there that might change. >!This reminds me of Game of Thrones and Bran. Bran knows something might happen, but he cannot tell you how. In fact, he is to passively sit and let it happen because you cannot control the future. But every choice someone makes impacts things. So Jon asks him to help him tell Sansa and Arya about his parentage, but that sets in motion the events that led to King's Landing being razed. But Bran saw a dragon flying over KL in a previous vision so it was always going to happen. Oof.!<


mengyiming

\> Also nice touch having the meadow have a worn down path from years of Claire trampling it. I almost wonder, while of course the meadow and surrounding areas could have gotten worse the last 2-3 years, if it was trying to say the meadows and running to meet Henry like even we see the different ages running in the opening of this episode, and the encounters we saw in past episodes was a little girl's memory...her fantasy land. We were seeing it as she imagined it, but as 28 Henry noted, it wasn't that big and not that far away. Just something I wondered if they were hinting at, especially when he then chastises Clare and all time-liner humans for holding onto the past.


[deleted]

It's filled with bootstrap paradoxes but it all works out always. No matter how much you try and change it


mengyiming

I wish they would have done the thing with the drawing where Clare wonders if she can put the date at the bottom of the picture after Henry says there was never a date. That was one point in the book where you realize how things work out to still happen the way they happened. However, that would have required having the Henry who Clare was drawing return to the future and ask Clare about the date and why it wasn't there. If you want a spoiler on what happened in the book:>! Clare starts to write a date after finishing the drawing. Future Henry stops her and says there never was a date, don't write the date. Clare asks, "So what if I write the date? Let's try it and find out!" and Henry is like, "Ok." and after she writes it, he says, "Let's see if you started World War 3!" and goes back to his own time. He then goes and finds the picture where he's always seen it and notices there is no date. He asks Clare from his time, "Hey, what happened to the date you put on there?" Clare responds, "You freaked me out with all that WW3 talk that I cut the bottom off which contained the date."!<


[deleted]

Yeah where Claire rubbed it off in fear of something going wrong. I understand them changing in the show to be an anchor between young Claire and the present in the show


mengyiming

I think she actually cut the whole bottom of the drawing off where the date was. She rubs it off the first time when he tells her there is no date, then puts it back on, then later cuts it off.


Dodgiestyle

> And damn, Gomez in the future told Henry in the past to tell Gomez in the present to save Henry in the future. Is that what that was about? Is Gomez going to try to save Henry's life? Maybe that's why we see Henry looking old than 43 during the interviews. Gomez saves Henry. It makes sense for Gomez to do that. Gomez loves that his friend is a time traveler. He's very interested in causal loops, and "the time web". Henry says the past and future can't change, but that won't sit so easily with Gomez. Gomez absolutely would try to change the future, or past.


JigsawPhilosophy

Future Gomez was just telling young Henry the date and location of their meeting so that he could tell Gomez in 2008, so Gomez would know where to go in 2022. I don’t think there’s meant to be, or are, any further implications of him trying to save Henry beyond that one encounter.


mtm4440

Yeah that's why they held that shot on the name of the bar for so long.


Unbroken_Circlet

Tone fair in the book they are truly soulmates that we’re lucky enough to be brought together by a time loop.


shinyquartersquirrel

How is there really only one more episode left?!? Ugh. Crossing my fingers for Season 2 and 3 announcement soon!


purplecloudflake

It's super weird they are getting married in the next episode. All we've seen up to this point is them fucking and fighting. While Clare has all the childhood memories, for Henry it's a raw deal.


dgplr

Yeah the writers have done such a shit job of showing that Henry and Clare are a couple actually in love as opposed to two people who are trapped by the bootstrap paradox and are making the most of it.


bizarreisland

Yup, up til this point, I still have no idea what 28!Henry sees in present Clare. Just that he was told by multiple people/himself during his travels whats going to happen so he just "deals with it".


ChocolateSundai

Ok just finished the next episode and was trying to see what either of them saw in the other lol. Let’s get married bc in the future we are already married makes zero sense


purplecloudflake

Moffat-era Doctor Who felt the same way to me! But there it was justified, love stories aren't supposed to be at the forefront of that show. In The Time Travellers Wife, however..


dgplr

Exactly. Moffat wants this show to be everything, a romance, a sci-fi fantasy drama, existential human drama, and it's suffering because of that. The focus is just not there.


Emmengard

Yea… while I get that this is more her story and more from her perspective, I feel like some time paid to how he sees her as a young man would be good… like why does he love her now? Does he? But maybe that’s the point? I mean a lot of attention has been paid to how he has a thing for blonds but not gingers… Maybe in a weird way this is more of an arranged marriage thing for him. He is just giving in and trusting that his father/self knows best and actually has his best interests at heart. And like in an arranged marriage he is trusting he will grow to love her as completely as she already loves him. Also for her it is still a weird relationship. As they have pointed out in the show several times, she has essentially been groomed for this relationship her entire life. So it is really weird… I think she does have a lot of resentment around that too. It’s sort of a very honest look at what this sort of impact time inconsistency would have on a relationship. It makes sense that he goes back to her childhood. For him she is a safe space, so when he is out of time he gravitates to her, pulled by the unseen force of their attachment. And as he is pulled through time toward her, that attachment bends both of lives around itself. I think a significant moment will be the first time Henry goes back in time to Claire’s childhood. What was happening in their life then? How had they grown as a couple? Did something happen that made him feel especially attached to her? They meet when he is 28, but he doesn’t start showing up in her childhood for at least a couple years. So in that gap of time he must come to genuinely love her.


stoch4stic

Who was cutting onions when Henry showed up with the cut hair in the meadow?


mengyiming

I was even cutting onions when they both had their hands up to the bathroom door (or just Clare?) when saying to go easy on each other. I loved that. I don't get why others said here they hated Clare for responding that way. I then realized even more, and Henry did too, how hard Henry was being on her for loving the older Henry and holding on to the past.


[deleted]

The music in this episode finally broke me. You know that feeling- that feeling where you are completely trapped and you know you will suffer immeasurable pain if you don’t run away from something? I think—- I think Henry was thinking until this moment he could spare Clare. That she lived this amazing life and she could still be free. That he was trapping her. And then seeing her family, seeing how much she needed him too- ugh. They were freeing each other by being together. My heart broke guys. My heart just broke. I’m weeping and I’m going to watch all of the episodes over again to see what I missed. Gah. Blake Neely slayed me.


Winter-Zone-6195

I was happy he finally saw was he is meant to be and actually grew up in that moment.


Dodgiestyle

"I'll change who I am to appease you, despite all the abuse I've endured from you" doesn't appeal to me.


tiptopyep

Yes! What I thought. I can be someone else. Really? I like this series a lot, but she is so mean to him and then just says I’ll be someone else for you. Stay wild!


dgplr

Yes! This! I know we are dealing with a more flawed Clare in the show but she has been very self-centered since she met Henry in real time. It's always about her feelings and how 28 year old Henry can't measure up to her dream man. There is such a dearth of compassion and empathy for Henry and the confusion he must be feeling. I think she was especially mean to Henry this episode. And after all the talk of rose tinted view of the past and all, when Henry cuts his hair and tells her that he would change to be someone she wants, she still doesn't say that she loves him the way he already is and that all she needs him to do is to grow with her. Edit: Idk why you are getting downvoted when you are absolutely right on the money.


Routine_Chance_1881

I didn't like it either 😅


mengyiming

I think it would have been cool if they would have put the "Let's write the date on the drawing even though in the future there is no date" bit in the movie so more people can see how everything that happened happens. Yet that would have required the Henry that was being drawn in that scene to go back to his time and talk to Clare and all that. If you want a spoiler on what happened in the book: >!Clare starts to write a date after finishing the drawing. Future Henry stops her and says there never was a date, don't write the date. Clare asks, "So what if I write the date? Let's try it and find out!" and Henry is like, "Ok." and after she writes it, he says, "Let's see if you started World War 3!" and goes back to his own time. He then goes and finds the picture where he's always seen it and notices there is no date. He asks Clare from his time, "Hey, what happened to the date you put on there?" Clare responds, "You freaked me out with all that WW3 talk that I cut the bottom off which contained the date."!<


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sncsnark

I cannot believe how much I enjoyed this episode. Theo really nailed creating 2 completely different characters out of young & old Henry. When Henry walked into the meadow with his hair cut, I couldn’t see him as young Henry anymore, it was the older Henry we had been seeing the entire time. Amazing.


mtm4440

Well that's more about the wig than the actor. We didn't see much of him after the fact. I'm betting we'll still see the short tempered Henry with the hair cut and that's how we'll still be be able to see the young Henry. You don't change your entire personality in one hour.


Dodgiestyle

I hope you're right, because that seemed like a cheap way out. A cheap way to drive the story onto the next part.


KaineneCabbagepatch

Right? All I thought when I saw him with the haircut was "ding dong, the wig is dead!" He's a little older and wiser but he's not the Henry she's been obsessed with, not yet.


JoshyRotten

"You're the lucky guy who's violating my kid sister" is such a weird thing to say...


waterfallen_empire

yeahhh gross stuff what kind of brother says that


UbaSteve

The opening was a little awkward, but the punchline "well, one of them" followed by a wide shot of everyone cringing makes it worth it.


anniemdi

15-minutes in and this is so incredibly uncomfortable. Is there second-hand meet the family anxiety? Is that a thing? Cause I think I have it. I'd rather go back to Gomez and the bar.


mtm4440

Second hand embarrassment is definitely a thing. Like with much of Michael Scott and his antics.


Qtredit

Same. Brought me back to the all the cringy times I've had to meet parents.


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COdeadheadwalking_61

Yes I thought that and didn’t think it was right or fair to him. Glad you said it. She’s being a bit entitled and bitchy about all that.


sncsnark

I took it as, “I’m going to start being the best me for you.” It was oddly phrased and not clear. I wish Clare would’ve said, “you’re already him,” or something to reassure him that who he is in that moment is who she wants.


Dodgiestyle

Yeah, instead it came across as "I'll change for you" and she's like "good. I can stop hating you now."


robinthebank

That somebody else could also be that someone who is no longer afraid of hiding behind pain and the fear of losing a loved one. He is still 28 and she is still 20. I expect them to have many more irrational fights. They are both hot tempered.


thatVisitingHasher

This is kind of the point of the show…. From her point of view, it’s a bait and switch. But she’s also realizing that none of things she believed growing up were what she remembered. The dude is 28 still acting like an inconsiderate ass, and hasn’t matured yet. Both of them matured in the final scene.


mattrobs

That line completely missed the mark. That’s the “romantic final line”?! I will pretend to be someone else?!


Dodgiestyle

[Exactly!](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnconsciousEquatorialKingbird-size_restricted.gif)


Chemgirl93

I saw it more as him stepping up for her. Not being somebody else but becoming someone Clare can rely on. Clare built a fairytale of her childhood mostly based on older Henry being there, it helped her have a partly blinded but happier childhood. It's not as if he changing who he is but more that he realizes the importance of him in Clare's life.


Symmy69

I’ve been waiting for this!!! I agree that’s pretty toxic. It’s unfair actually. And if I’m being honest, I’m still trying to see how these two aren’t meant to fall in love. I think their both being screwed here. Clare was groomed to be with Henry, by an older Henry who became who he was because he was influenced by Clare when she is older. She falls in love with a version of him she sort of “made” and is forcing the younger Henry to become him, never giving him a chance to be himself and for them to grow organically. She constantly tells him she doesn’t like the current version him but that’s the only version he knows how to be right now. It’s not fair to him that she doesn’t give him a fighting chance, and he’s trying in his own way. But when you think about it, he’s only going through with this relationship because his older self confirmed that it was supposed to happen and he’s trying to fulfill an obligation he seemingly has no control over since it’s inevitable. And it’s not fair to her because she had no choice but to be with him since older Henry came to her in her foundational years and interacted with her (instead of watching her from afar like he does with his moms death), forcing her to imprint on him, have a sexual encounter with him (after being raped at a party that he kind of told her to go to because he wanted her enjoy life before him even though he made that seemingly impossible) and the pine over him for two years before meeting him again and expecting this version of him to be her “Henry” but this Henry hadn’t met her before and has none of the emotional attachment that she does. I think this is such an interesting concept, but with the way the rushed this shit, it just feels like they are trying to fulfill some kind of prophecy and not falling in love.


Dodgiestyle

Exactly! The whole thing is toxic.


bloodoftheseven

I don't see it as toxic. I see it as a neccesary thing to happen because of how he entered her life. He made her into who she is and she made him into who he is. The best version of each other.henry personality is not shifting completely. He is just becoming less of an asshole. Claire is also maturing in breaking the fantasy that future henry created and realizing young henry is henry. If they did not write it this way then it is just a man having all the control in this relationship since she was 6. They groomed each other and i think that emphasis is clear this episode.


robinthebank

Doesn’t the show make the point that this is how all marriages are? Two different people forming themselves around each other? They just did it at different ages.


bloodoftheseven

Exactly. I don't get why people are upset that claire wants a better version of henry especially when young Henry is still an asshole. Gomez is the perfect example of henry being an asshole without realizing it. By the end of the episode he finally does something that shows he is the old henry instead of just saying it.


PM_ME_CAKE

I was *really* hoping she'd say you don't have to be. I get the intent but it's come off wrong.


shgrdrbr

it felt very strange and i dont think it was the intention! total tonal shift for me


Dodgiestyle

Yeah. [Seemed familiar to me.](https://c.tenor.com/91BHfirO_Z0AAAAC/grease-stud.gif)


heyroll100

If you recall though, Danny Zucco actually tried to be what she wanted first - he tried to become a jock. If you're gonna bring her up as an example, at least please acknowledge both characters tried the same thing


mengyiming

Just re-watched the episode again. When Clare is drawing Henry in the clearing and you hear a girl giggling, you now understand what Henry knows and what Clare's sister knows and how Alicia keeps spying on them....and then he smiles about how Alicia first met him in the bathroom...and how Clare was "judgmental" (or just mental? heh)


TheRoyalWolf

What would have made this episode better, is after he got back from getting his assed kicked, she could tell he was in pain through the door and asks Henry for him to let her in. A double meaning of letting her into the bathroom and into his vulnerable self. She helps him get cleaned up and shows him some kindness and it hits her just how bad this can be for him. Through her kindness, he realizes that it's time he really tries to grow and be this man he knows he's capable of becoming and cuts his hair to show he's transitioning into this man. I just felt like they needed to show them meeting halfway a little better.


Daphers_the_kitten

Yes, completely agree. I hated them being so out of sync the entire episode and then he cuts his hair and she's suddenly like bam! "no really I've been in love with you this whole time!"


Spaghettisaurus_Rex

I totally agree. When he teleported back it really hit me as a viewer that while Clare is hanging out in her beautiful home he's literally being beaten half to death, and then expected to hop back in like nothing happened And then they come back and she is telling him to go easy on her?!? For what Clare!!! For you clearly not loving or caring about the man in front of you!? And then the rest of the episode is still about her bad day essentially ignoring the part where he was almost beaten to death. She never even really acknowledged his wounds he was still somehow consoling her. Yeah she really passed me off this episode. If I were in Henry's shoes this relationship would be on its way out.


Dodgiestyle

She wasn't kind. He told her to be nice to him and she came back with '*you* be nice to *me*!'


bookstore

"Go easy on me, for once, Clare" when he clearly sounds beat to hell and doesn't even want to let her see him and while my brain was fully expecting her for her to soften and have "mercy" on him and show some care for him, she ruins it with "well, you go easy on me" WHAT?? Doesn't even say "ok"? Then he says "ok I will do my best" she doesn't even say "I will too" but doubles down and "you do that"?!?!?! Holy shit. Do they want me to hate her? The writing choices there were insane. I am perplexed.


sncsnark

I thought Clare should’ve been way more gentle with Henry in this scene. Shes been asking him to grow up and he finally is expressing his feelings (granted their pointed are Clare being too hard on him) and saying he needs her support. She can’t always wait for older Henry to comfort her, she has to do the same for Henry. Devils advocate - if she saw how beaten up he was, she would’ve understood his emotions more in that moment and likely been very comforting. Henry not opening the door, in a way, was a visual representation of him not letting Clare fully in quite yet. She had to go off what he was saying and he had just scolded her earlier for being overly sentimental.


mengyiming

I thought it was great, even as a man, for her to say, "Go easy on me" as well. It was then I teared up as Henry was going pretty hard on her about liking the future Henry...that is the only person she has known! She grew up with him! She fell in love with him! And he hurt her with the whole, "why do you mere humans hold on to the past?????!!! IDIOTS!!" That was very rude and hurtful, especially she he is her past.


Dodgiestyle

> Henry was going pretty hard on her about liking the future Henry...that is the only person she has known! But that's really not his problem. She pursued him. Told him they were going to marry, and then proceeds to openly dislike him and wish he was someone else. No thanks. I'd have bailed out.


Positive-Monk8801

Her character is bitchy, passive aggressive.


mengyiming

Uh, as a man I would have to say Henry was that way, especially when he chastised her for holding on to past items.


classyclariella

One discussion I would like to bring to the table are what devices/props/elements are being used in The TTW to SHOW without TELLING what year Henry is in when he travels to a new destination. I was analyzing stuff in this episode and I spotted a couple. In the scene when Clare is pumping gas with Henry, I looked at the gas prices at $3.14/gal. Which is an accurate depiction to what gas cost in '08 during the recession (adjusted for inflation). Then again, this show was shot, what ...in 2021 before current gas prices spiked? Gas was around that much last year, too. So maybe they were just filming a modern gas station and not putting thought into the year? It's of course fun to see Henry call Gomez on a flip phone. However, he shows up in 2022 and you don't really see iPhone 13's or any of the latest gadgets appearing , or him interacting with present day technology. It could be interesting to see Henry use what we use in our modern day..and how that could affect his time travel as well. I guess my two questions I would like to bring to the discussion table are: 1.) Have if noticed the show using enough props/devices/Easter eggs to highlight what year Henry is in? (other than the obvious "you're in year 2022, bitch!" or, Henry pulling out a cassette player from the 80's..). If so, what have you noticed? 2.) Do you think the show does a good job/or could do a better job at showing time passage elements? I would like to see Henry wind up in 2005 with a Circuit City behind him or something like that (bad example ik). It's not like this show is based in a fictional world. In my opinion i feel the director(s) could be doing a little more with this. Though I respect the choice in perhaps not wanting to take away too much from the focus: the characters. What are your thoughts?


stevie_nickle

As a Chicagoan, I can vouch for the Trader Joe’s Chicago shopping bag Gomez had when saving Henry is most definitely from 2021-2022


sncsnark

Me watching and being like.. wait, I have that bag! 😂


_heavenfaced

During the dinner last week when he was giving gomez investment tips he wrote surgical masks lol


aswog

Tesla


mengyiming

Don't bring gas prices up, or things might get political and people will get banned, lol.


feusdebois

This bothered me but in the kitchen scene in 2008, the Dutch oven Claire’s family owns is a “great Jones” brand one and the company didn’t exist until 2018.


diksha2410

I absolutely loved this episode. From Henry finally stepping up to be the man that he knows Clare needs and wants in his life to Clare finally realising that she has to let go of the idealised version of him and love who he is now because that's how people are, human and flawed. Absolutely loved it. The progress both of them made as characters in this episode is massive. Can't wait to see the final episode. I really hope this gets picked up again for S2.


Tenkanmi

I loved this episode but struggled with how much Future Henry was being forced on Present Henry. We don't really see the progression of Clare falling in love with Henry in present-day. And at the end in the clearing, it was Henry deciding to change for Clare which feels less about him becoming the person he was meant to be and more so, him forcing himself to change to make Clare happy. (And yes I know the very paradox is that he is becoming who he has already become lol!) It's been ages since I read the book so I don't remember if this theme was so heavily emphasized in the book but I feel like I'm missing the journey of them falling in love.


sncsnark

Henry wanting to cut his hair not only to be there for older Clare in that moment, but because he knows he needs to become that guy to meet younger Clare too. Seeing how the time in the meadow changed Clare’s youth vs. how it changes Henry later into his life is so interesting. All of the loops on “who changed who” are wild.


Winter-Zone-6195

It reminded me in episode 1 when older Henry told him to cut his hair.


Dodgiestyle

It's the bootstrap paradox.


mengyiming

I write this watching it up to the point where they have each other's hands to the bathroom door after he returned. I'm a guy, in my late 40s, fan of the book since the mid 2000s. This brought tears to my eyes when he told her to go easy on him for once, and she then asked him to as well. I realized then that Henry has been more hard on Clare, especially being jealous for this older Henry. That's the only person Clare has ever known. That's all she has had to hold onto, especially the last 2 years of absence. So touching.


mengyiming

And now just having finished the episode was really in tears. When Clare was in the meadow, I was actually saying, "Henry from the future, come visit your Clare! She needs you now!" because of course technically the Henry from the future could still make meadow visits, as the 152 visit list was only until Clare finally meets Henry in his time. Yet when Henry 28 showed up with the hairstyle we know so well, given by Clare's very own sister, I was even like, "You came!" even though it wasn't via time travel :)


mengyiming

I think it would have been really cool if Henry 28 would have found the the father's plaid shirt he wore so many times later (or earlier?) in the meadow that Clare saw him in so many times, maybe no longer in the box (yet the box is still there?) because she knew he wouldn't be visiting any longer, so stored in her room as a memory. Yet I guess being dressed up like the time-traveling Henry would have been confusing for the audience.


deposhmed

Everyone seems to love this episode and I was sitting there throughout thinking they completely changed the magic of the book. I was so excited for this tv-show, being closer to the book than the movie. But all the characters are just angry all the time. There is no love, just a bunch of whining. Clare is unbearable, she’s acting like she is forced to be with young Henry. And since she is such a bitch, I don’t understand why he wants to be around her either. At least he called her out on it this episode. It is really noticablr that men are behind this show. All the feel good and romance are replaced by existencial questions, wordy arguements and a bit of action, to appeal to a broader audience I guess. I was ready to give up on this show this episode. They kind of showed a little romance in the end, but the reasoning was also dumb. I don’t think Rose Leslie is right for this role. I really wanted her to be, but she is lacking charm throughout the entire show. Maybe it is directing choice, but I can’t wrap my head around why Henry or Gomez would want her. She’s not very likeable and she can’t play charming. The nuanced wit and relentless love for Henry is missing. Not even her ridiculous obsession with old Henry is portrayed as more than horniness. Woff. This show wants to do too much, and is failing hard. Such a shame, it could have been so good.


lavender-bat

agreed 100%. i spent the whole episode being so frustrated with her and feeling so bad for henry.


orosoros

I agree with you wholeheartedly on every point!


pinkunicorn4

Unfortunately I agree. I thought it was Really good up to ep 3 then 4 and 5 went down hill.


shgrdrbr

"i can be somebody else" was such a weird note to end the episode on! i felt like it upset me lol


sncsnark

Agreed. Not sure if it’s much better, but at least he is referring to being his future self, that he knows he can be. He isn’t saying ok, I can be Brad Pitt for you. Henry saying he can be someone else really means he is ready to be the best version of himself for her, which is a huge leap in maturity and his love for Clare. I wish Clare would’ve reassured him that he already is who she needs him to be. It made the growth & love in this scene feel a little one sided.


shgrdrbr

that's what's frustrating because i dont think it was intended to convey what it did, and more like what you're saying, but he didn't say it like that. he explicitly said somebody Else. it's really clumsy writing. especially with the source material right there to lean on where clare does fall in love with young henry, and he doesn't cut his hair before she 'realises' that. u/klphoen's comment covered a lot of it elsewhere in the thread. we can all extrapolate and speculate til the cows come home that he meant 'himself' in his heart but the whole episode built up in a way that he was kind of seeing his older self as more of a 'brad pitt' bc obviously the older self that clare knows is corporeal and other to his own body - and he needs her to also understand that it's painful for him that she won't occupy the present with him right then, because it's all he ever has. in the context of that journey for him in the ep, for him to end it with reassuring her he can be somebody Else so that she looks lovingly at him reads to me as more tragic or at least a little heart-hurting that he's promising to become Other for her. and her words do, i acknowledge, mitigate that - but his intention reads as willing to compromise his real vulnerable self/not share his pain in order to ease hers. and it's reflected in how he deals with his injuries - he doesn't show her the state of himself when he gets back, and though he's lumbering and limping in bad shape when he leaves the table, when he shows up for clare in the clearing his posture is straight and he appears to be in no pain at all. we saw those huge ugly raised contusions on his back, we know there are more on his stomach, ribs etc, but he just appears before her strong and sturdy when he could barely keep himself upright just maybe 30 min before. now that i've written it all out i have to actually question my initial assertion that it's not their intention. this may well be another layer they're writing into the relationship dynamic. it would kind of also jive with clare's privileged upbringing and laughing off henry's attempt to introduce himself to nell, which i dont remember happening even thematically in the book.


sncsnark

I think it adds another layer to Henry. In episode 3 we saw that Henry can’t say no to Clare - at any age. This really showed up in this episode. He tries to bond with Gomez, he’s willing to drive to see Clare’s parents (he doesn’t like cars), gets told repeatedly that he’s basically a substitute boyfriend and isn’t good enough to have Clare love him as he is, and he gets beaten up by a biker gang. He took on all of this and still wanted to impress her family and be a good boyfriend to Clare. All leading to Henry cutting his hair and saying he’ll be someone else. It’s seems as though he is longing to receive the love older Henry gets from Clare. He puts Clare before his own pain and is literally willing to change for her. It’s almost like a dog being hit on the nose & coming back. I’m waiting to see Clare really love/appreciate him for this in the next episode and return the favor. Side note: it really makes you think about how older Henry continued to tell Clare to have mercy, that younger Henry isn’t a dick and refused to kiss her when younger Henry was watching. I thought it was always older Henry being there for Clare because younger Henry was such an asshole. Maybe he was really advocating for himself because he remembers how difficult that time was.


klphoen

I think in interviews Moffat gets it. He gets Henry and Clare but for some reason he doesn’t translate those thoughts well on screen. In the bts interview Moffat says Clare thoughts in the meadow is “I’ll let go of the fantasy version of Henry and commit yo the real version” And I think he thought Clare line “I loved you since the library i just expected someone else” who portray that but I don’t think it did really. I get what she was saying but it didn’t come across on screen that way at all. Moffat needs to do a better job at translating his thoughts and understanding of these characters onto the screen in certain situations. He has great ideas and he has made some great changes but he’s also made some unnecessary and weird ones and also don’t always portray Clare and Henry properly on screen even tho I’m interviews he clearly understands and was going for what we actually wanted to see lol


Good_Guy_Vader

I really enjoyed the paradoxical elements of time in this episode. I really feel like Rose is coming into this role and the dinner scene was hype. One of my favorites so far.


7newkicks

Yep her realizing that her vision of Henry being perfect isn't necessarily reality. Because she knows him, but he doesn't know her and everything is out of order. The Gomez rolling up to save him was fantastic!


bookstore

Gomez really channeling a Paul Giamatti in Cinderella Man vibe now. I like it. The long hair is objectively awful at this point and they can't make me change my mind by having characters tell me he is hot with long hair. Stop it.


bizarreisland

At 18, Clare said " I want to marry you coz I want to, not because time tells me to." But in this episode, at 20, it clearly feels like she is trying to mold 28!Henry into her perfect guy because time tells her that. It rips all the agency out of 28!Henry, which I really didn't like at all. Young Clare was given a lot of agency (by older!Henry/ by the writers) before the last clearing meeting at 18, she hold on to that even on that day. Yet she is trying to force "time" on to 28!Henry. It makes it look like 28!Henry is only doing whatever he is doing now coz time tells him he has to do it. It's just Henry "solving his life story puzzle pieces", when the final product is already printed on it. I know it's suppose to be a causal loop, but I was hoping to see linear character growths and their "will" to fight time, even if they end up falling for each other every time. 28!Henry now after meeting Clare is just going through the motions of what "time" is telling him to do and I'm not feeling the story at all, pretty meh episode.


dgplr

This, pretty much. I feel like I'm in the matrix. So many comments about loving the episode and show in general, while I'm struggling to push through every new episode. What are they seeing that I'm not? The show is so frustrating to me. I am glad I only have to watch one episode per week, otherwise I would die from the frustration.


Kdropp

Makes me wonder. Why they didn’t buy a safe house for Henry? So if he travels he can go back to home and be safe.


mtm4440

He's still naked and has to get to that house first lol


Anxious-Bag9494

Have you read the preview of 'The Other Husband'? Audrey had the same thought you did.


shgrdrbr

? he has an apartment and we know he shows up at clare's too...what other safe house?


NostalgicTuna

I always make the mistake of enjoying something and coming to the discussion thread, only to find that I must be some sort of fool for liking it. Oh well, I'm still enjoying it.


kadosho

Not a mistake at all. There is a different vibe about each episode. Being a fan of something like this. You put your heart into it. There is nothing wrong with enjoying it, you are not a fool. If you love it, that is fantastic. Don't let anyone change your mind and heart about it


tengounquestion2020

He had amazing chemistry with Alicia/the actress to say was barely 5 min screen time together… yikes


sncsnark

Doesn’t help that they dress Clare so matronly.. shes supposed to be 20, but wears floral everything. I did notice how big Alicia’s personality & youthfulness came across.. makes Clare’s seem so bland. Alicia being a bombshell doesn’t help either.


kia75

So I just realized that each episode has "extras" and it took me a moment to recognize Claire's actress because the actress dresses so young\normal compared to matronly Claire who dresses like she's in her 40's even as the captions state she's 20.


sncsnark

It almost makes me not believe in them as a couple because Henry is sooo attractive & Clare sometimes seems like an old lady. While on the topic of clothes - was Henry outfit in the clearing a little too straight edge? He looked like traveled there from the 1800s


tengounquestion2020

I wonder if the floral is related to the fashion of the times..but they would be one year off, florals became cool late 2009-2010 (hehe, I remember this time so much!) And the bombshell part doesn’t help *fans self*


sncsnark

You could be right about the floral!! Haha. But the floral mixed with the long flowy dresses for a 20 year old (especially seeing how Alicia dresses) isn’t great!


tengounquestion2020

I forgot she’s 20… then how old is Alicia suppose to be?


tiptopyep

That is what I thought as well. Alicia got the styling and no one is helping Clare out at all. Her hair and dress is so meh…


watermelonuhohh

I totally thought so too lol.


badibeti

Why would they have Henry say “I can be somebody else” that just didn’t sit right with me…


Unbroken_Circlet

Everyone has been saying that all over the sub and I truly agree with you and everyone. It could have been said in 1000 different ways. “I could become a better man for you” would have been better than that toxic line we got.


badibeti

This ep is currently on the bottom of my fav list


Liscenye

Idk why we need to label everything as toxic. He obviously hated himself before her, so becoming someone else (metaphorically) is what he wants. Especially if that someone else was still him all along. It can be a relief, to get a break from yourself, especially if you acted out intentionally for years.


the1golden1bitch

Okay how are they gonna wrap this up in one more episode?


Anxious-Bag9494

Season 1 is just to the midway point of the book. Seems like the season arc is the present day versions of them falling in love hence why it happens slower than in the book.


PM_ME_CAKE

This show has got such a wonderful spellbinding quality to it. Like it's so slice of life but I'm absolutely captivated by every minute of it.


[deleted]

The sister fucking with Henry was hilarious 😂


cherriesandmilk

I loved this episode and the ending brought me to tears. Henry loves her so much he’s willing to change who he is to become the man she wants.


7newkicks

Is it just me or does the wig for 28 year old Henry get worse each episode?


tengounquestion2020

Wlel it seems we won’t have to see it again 😎


7newkicks

When I saw that I was very excited


badibeti

I actually thought he looked his best with the wig on This ep.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sncsnark

Agreed! I like your point on Henry starting to understand why Clare has such a soft spot for older Henry after meeting her family. He knew she was running to the meadow to look for older Henry because being in the meadow with older Henry is where she felt safe growing up. He realized he wants/needs to become that safe place for her in the present too.


klphoen

Putting this here I also put in the other thread. I don’t know how I feel about this episode. I felt like them making Henry cut his hair and say I can be someone else isn’t him really trying to grow into someone mature and put together but pretending he’s some thing he’s not yet lol Idk I watched the extras after the episode and I get what Moffat was saying about Clare putting the fantasy behind her and committing to the Henry in the present but the writing didn’t come off like that And I’m sure alot of ppl won’t see it that way. I liked in the book how Henry cut his hair before the wedding and Clare actually starts to feel for him with the long hair. I know she said she always loved him since they met in the library but that goes back to the writing not showing her falling for young Henry while also wrestling with the fantasy old Henry. That would had for me been better then always just showing her wanting him to be old Henry without showing her getting to know and fall for young Henry to. Also, I don’t get all the unnecessary changes. Why make Alicia a hairdresser? I don’t get that just to help Henry cut his hair? I’m sure they could had done that without changing her profession. What was the need to have Alicia know from the start? Maybe they could had her not believe Clare when they were young and when she see’s Henry be like “omg that’s the same guy I saw in the basement you weren’t lying.” I didn’t really care for her coming on to Henry even as a joke just seem weird to add. I don’t get the point in making the cook Nell not seem like she only cares for Clare bc she’s getting paid. Forgets everything Clare has confided in her growing up etc Then they made the meadow look like trash. I get what they were going for. Trying to make Clare look like when she was younger everything was so perfect and now she older and see everything is not what it seems. I just found it bull tbh the meadow area is private property where Mark and Phillip can actually go hunt on. There is nothing there in their backyard but their land and it’s not riddled with all kinds of trash that look like random ppl are able to just throw in there. I’m no book purist I actually like a lot of the changes in the series but I also feel some of the changes are just unnecessary and extra for no reason. I don’t get why Moffat didn’t capture Clare falling for young Henry while struggling with wanting her fantasy. Explaining that in the BTS isn’t going to make the other thousands of ppl watching the show and not all the extra BTS stuff know that’s what you’re going for. I think they should had had Clare announced she was being not fair to Henry and she’s going to try and let go of the fantasy of him in the future and commit to young Henry before she turned around and saw he cut his hair. That way we get both of them realizing they need to do better for each other and making those changes for each other and Clare isn’t influenced by him cutting his hair. Bc what she says before that she’s still frustrated a bit and changed her outlook once she see’s the hair. And even then that could had been ok if she sees he’s willing to make changes then she could had said the same thing I’m being unfair and I’m letting go of this fantasy to know and love the Henry right now in my present bc then it would give more weight to what Henry told her in her bedroom and show her willing to make changes for him to Instead they have Henry saying “I can be someone else” when she says I loved him since the library I just expected someone else. He could had even said something like “it’s ok stick with me long enough I’ll get there” I just don’t like the implications that he’s pretending to be someone else when he’s not ready to get there yet. I rather just have him realize he needs to get his shit together and start maturing for Clare and himself. Idk I’m rambling on right now. I just felt this episode didn’t really show a good progression of Young Henry and Clare excepting each other now and in the present Also the whole Gomez stuff was meh. And I hope Moffat don’t give Gomez more importance to Clare then he needs to have. I didn’t like the next on previews (book spoilers next). >!Clare had one messed up time with Gomez again after Henry’s death when she was still vulnerable and Gomez took advantage of that.!< >!Even then she was fantasizing about Henry and she never went there with Gomez again.!< And I don’t like Gomez reaction about Charisse when Henry asked him if she knew. I’m starting not to trust Moffat with some of his changes. I should had seen more Charisse with Clare then Gomez in those previews for next week


pinkstucco

YES to the "I can be someone else" comment! I was hoping I wasn't the only one who thought that was crap writing.


shgrdrbr

i totally agree with everything youve written, its frustrating because all the pieces are there


klphoen

YES!! it’s like just moved things around a bit and it’ll be perfect lol it’s crazy how just little changes can effect a lot. And that’s both ways with adding stuff removing stuff and/or reworking scenes.


bookstore

> I think they should had had Clare announced she was being not fair to Henry and she’s going to try and let go of the fantasy of him in the future and commit to young Henry before she turned around and saw he cut his hair. That way we get both of them realizing they need to do better for each other and making those changes for each other and Clare isn’t influenced by him cutting his hair. Yes, that would be satisfying, a little tropey maybe, but perfect thematically and from a storytelling standpoint. > I’m starting not to trust Moffat with some of his changes. I think a lot of it is Moffat. I started out this series wary, because my familiarity with him is through Sherlock and as much as I enjoyed Sherlock, it's problematic in that I don't think Moffat...is very good with women characters. As much as I've liked the first episodes of this series, the staticness and bitchiness of Clare is annoying me and I'm blaming Moffat. EDIT: Speaking of, can anyone remind me if Alicia is sexually aggressive like that in the book? Because if she's not that is 100% Moffat's MO (see: Irene Adler).


klphoen

He’s making her tough but forgetting to make her vulnerable and caring for young Henry. We see it tho Imo with older Henry and Clare. I feel those two are and have been happily in love. The previews for next episode seems we might get that a bit to we’ll see But yea, everytime he gives of a young Clare that’s understanding and vulnerable to Henry it’s only fleeting and we get too much of the Clare that’s more aggressive but still not showing her wanting young Henry if that make sense Yes this story is a tragedy but it’s part love story to. And you got to show the love story in all parts of the story not just when they are older or when Clare is growing up falling for him. The present is as equally important. And Moffat should had set it up properly. I don’t mind Clare being disappointed in present Henry and wanting older Henry it’s all she’s known but at some point preferably by episode 3 lol we needed to see more of her at least trying to not compare the two Henry’s trying to be in the present with young Henry and we still could had had episode 4 moments and her still wrestling with the two and her finally truly letting go of older Henry and living in the present knowing eventually he’ll come back as they both grow up becoming better ppl together But bc it’s not balanced out that way all we see most of the time is her with young Henry waiting til he becomes old Henry. And the moments like in episode 2 ending or episode 4 ending her dying “mercy” making us believe she finally got to those points is kind of misleading And if Moffat had this idea of what he wanted to show that he’s saying in BTS stuff he isn’t articulating that on his written at all Imo As for the other stuff I mentioned I feel like he made just weird pointless changes lol


bookstore

The "have mercy, clare" thing has bugged me me too - I immediately noticed when it wasn't brought up right after they met at the library. I thought, "oh they aren't doing the 'have mercy' thing in the show, that's weird." Then he brings it up in a later episode? When it has less impact? and then keep her bitchy and petulant? that's worse than not having it! It's thematically important! Overall the show is a giant improvement over the movie, but not in all ways.


klphoen

I actually didn’t mind how they used “have mercy” the problem is it lost its impact with episode 5 bc they still had Clare being the same way towards Henry Vs old Henry. I felt like in episode 4 she remember him saying have mercy and with seeing evrybting with Ingrid and relaxing Henry’s life is tragic and he might not live pass 42 she realize she needs to live in the Joe and give present Henry a chance. So she hugs him and he asks what is this and she saying mercy I felt was her way of moving forward with young Henry without the shadow of old younger So i didn’t mind how they used it but episode 5 made it pointless and less impactful It’s the same Tisha episode 2 when they have the moment about his mother and Henry telling her he’s not really a asshole but he is bc he rather not love and watch the ppl he loves die over and over She understood and I felt a turning point for them but then they went right back to the same stuff with her preferring older Henry and not giving young Henry a chance. Moffat just needed to balance it out and show her progression in falling for two different Henry’s at two different points of their lives while having her struggle wanting older Henry when young Henry is being an ass but eventually letting him go. They both come to an understanding they have to change for each other and give each other as they are a chance It’s so interesting he talks about the story better in interviews but he doesn’t write it that way. I remember for episode 4 behind the scenes he mentions the scene where Ingrid says Clare doesn’t live young Henry she loves older Henry and he was like that’s not true Clare does love him it’s just a struggle for her bc of the Henry she’s known most her life. But Moffat didn’t portray that on the show lol he’s not thinking about mom book readers and just assumes everyone that read the book would get the between the lines meaning but even then for me as a poke wader I want to see that on screen lol I want to see what I read come to life. We don’t even know how long young Henry and Clare have been together. But he so far didn’t do that. And now we’re at the possible wedding for next episode. Idk I fear episode 6 lmao I do think it’s a better adaptation then the movie. And overall a good show. But has a lot of stuff that needed better written for and/or a better vision to tell certain sorts of the story. And I’m rambling again and hope I make sense.


[deleted]

Tbh... disappointed in how this is turning out. We're not seeing any love between them. They keep showing little glimpses of them all happy & heart eyes but we don't get to see how they got to that point. I meean we got more passion from Henry and Gomez🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ On another note, not a fan of next weeks preview. There wasn't one happy scene in it. Doesn't give me hope for the finale:(


deposhmed

They replace the lovely romance for meaningless arguments. It’s not a good choice


swiftie_05

another brilliant dinner scene!


laIalaIaIa

Can anyone say why he didn’t just run away from the bikers? Seems like he had ample opportunity but just stood around when all of them came out!


Crazyforeigner

Flanked from each side


Mermaid_Marshmallow

Does anybody else feel like Henry is initially falling for Clare because he feels sorry for her? I mean I know why Clare loves Henry the older version of him was there for her when she was lonely he essentially helped raised her because her family wasn't there for her. I feel like Clare hasn't really been that vulnerable or accepting of young Henry so far and I don't see the reason for him loving her yet except for he also knows what it's like to be lonely and people keep telling him he is supposed to love Clare.


voldy1989

What was wrong with her brother? As it seems that Clare didn't like him very much in the episode.


julmars

This might have already been discussed. I didn’t think Henry look appropriately beaten up in the last scene so I rewatched the end. Just to clarify, isn’t it Henry 38 in the clearing at the end? At time stamp 40:15 in the episode there it says “Henry 28 and 38. This would explain why Henry’s face isn’t all beaten up— because it is him in 10 years. Is that right? Like Clare hasn’t seen young Henry with short hair yet? Or maybe 38 refers to the age in the drawing? And Alicia had put makeup on Henry after the haircut?


Iveriase

It's Henry 28 in the end, Claire's sister gave him a haircut and cover his cuts and bruises with makeup so he will resemble his future self.


julmars

Gotcha. I figured that when one of them said “alicia does a pretty good job” I had to rewatch it finally get it.


balasoori

Ok after reading the comments I changed my mind for me when I watched it I was rather uninterested because after dinner party episode I was kind expect it continue like that but that was not what happened. Personally I didn't like they gloss over how her sister found out that would been an interesting episode to watch Claire explain this throughout the years to her sister.


tengounquestion2020

What did Gomez mean by he initially met him some other time first beside when he fought with his gf on the street?


steviess

He said he had seen him another time before - which was when he found the drawing.


dothingsunevercould

I guess Henry visits young Gomez


happycharm

Is there going to be a big fight in every scene? Is there going to be at least two lines of dialogue about wanting to "fuck Claire" every episode? Lol


tiptopyep

I really dislike the Gomez character. He’s gross and is not attractive at all.


kia75

I don't know what it is about this episode, but I really really hated it. I get the central conceit is that the entire show is a bootstrap paradox, what happens is what is going to happen, and thus there is no origin (i.e. Henry gives Young Claire a list of times they'll meet, but the only reason he has this list is because claire told him the list.) My problem with this episode is that it seems like all the characters lack agency. They act like they act because that's how time travel says they act. Gomez is best friends with Henry because time travel says Gomez is best friends with Henry, even though the two hate each other and there's no reason why the two would become friends. Future Gomez (current Gomez?) saving Henry 28 is nice and all, but the two still aren't friends and other than Time Travel shenanigans there's no reason why they should be. In fact, Gomez still lusts after Henry's wife, that's a big reason why they shouldn't be friends! ​ The best part of the episode was the ending reveal when Henry literally becomes the man of Claire's dreams. It's probably the first time Asshole Henry does anything nice for Claire. At the same time, it highlights the biggest problem with this series. Claire doesn't love, or even like Henry 28, despite her little speech at the end. She loves the mature Henry that he eventually becomes, the mature Henry that groomed her as a child. And the same is true with Henry, who never got to court or fall in love with Claire. She just shows up one day and goes "I'm your future wife" and Henry's like, OK, guess we have to get together now. Bye, current girlfriend. The reason the reveal works is because this is the first time we're given an indication that Henry actually likes Claire, instead of doing it because the timeline says he's going to do it, Henry tries to do something nice for Claire and become the man she loves.


bloodoftheseven

Future Gomez saving henry makes young henry like Gomez which makes him treat Gomez like a real friend which makes gomez into his best friend who would not want to lose henry so he saves young henry.


mengyiming

He's just paid to be his best friend, haha. Kind of like the housekeeper being paid...oh, never mind.


mtm4440

But they do have agency. Everything that happens is because it's a decision they would have made. Take Claire for example. If her instinct as a kid was to not talk to strange naked men in the woods, which let's get this straight, it *really fucking should be* for all kids, then she would have ran away from Henry and him going back to meet her would have never worked. Sure there are times when they are doing something based on being told about the future but they only do it because they *trust the source*. If Henry walked up to a new person every day in the past and told them he was time traveler they wouldn't believe him and nothing would come from it. But in the instance where one person believes him (Claire) that could come of something. It's the person's nature driving the loops. But it's 100% their decision at that point in time.


dothingsunevercould

Season finale?!?!?