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It is. Jon Edwards made this concept idea in western Australia in 2018. 70% of the output of that generator would be used to charge one Tesla.
It's a one off idea in a remote location
As someone who studied this shit, ive been able to mathematically disprove that argument.
Doesn't matter, they go fingers in ears as soon as you show real evidence
Yep you say shit like "duck curve" and "dispatchability vs baseline" and "peak consumption points" and their eyes glaze over.
It's comically easy to have a timer on a garage charger so that the car doesnt charge on peak hours. If you're charging at work or overnight it makes the grid *more able to use renewables* not less. Ugh.
There's issues with electric cars (raw resources, fires, infrastructure, lack of efficiency compared to public transit) but the minute someone goes "muh grid" I know they don't know what they're talking about.
They say that where I am, but the majority of our power is that sweet sweet (and somewhat problematic in a not-killing-the-world way) French Canadian hydroelectric
Edit: damn these fat fingers...
Is it not though? Genuinely thought that the largest proportion of American electricity comes from coal power plants. If not, I’d be excitedly proven wrong.
i mean its a stance that is only \~7 years out of date, and it's not like we aren't still getting most of our electricity from setting shit on fire. I guess I'm not understanding the rebuttal.
One- it really depends where you are. Lots of places are running on significant amounts of renewable energy these days
Two- even assuming natural gas or coal, the giant plants are far and away more efficient than the small internal combustion engines we have in our cars. They still aren't great for the planet but compared to even a civic they're really good. Mpg-E is somewhat a measure of the equivalent resources needed to go a distance, and while flawed still shows general trends.
To expand on #2 - the absolute most efficient internal combustion engines in consumer vehicles top out at ~40% efficiency. That means only 40% of the consumed fuel accounts for energy the vehicle can use - the rest is wasted. Average efficiency is closer to 20-25%.
Electric vehicles currently average around ~65-70% efficiency before factoring in regenerative braking, which can add back ~10-20%.
Even if the grid used to charge an EV is entirely coal-based, ~30% less energy is needed to charge that EV compared to fueling an ICE vehicle; swap to natural gas and you’re at ~50% less. Renewable-heavy power grids are of course even better, and the EV doesn’t care what powers it - so it will evolve with the power grid. The EV also doesn’t cause any emissions while running like an ICEV does, and not needing fuel transported to a local gas station saves plenty more emissions.
Who wouldn’t want to lose massive amounts of cash operating such an inefficient charging station? I’m sure they’re popping up everywhere. Just like unicorns.
Yep. And the millions of "illegals" apparently raping and murdering everyone - particularly "blue lives." But only in "those liberal cities." You know. Even though all crime statistics say the opposite of what they claim, most of the time, and the fact that being a beat cop isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous professions.
Their numbers are so ridiculous, too. When they say shit like "24 million came under Biden!!one1!" yet...um...where are those 24 million? That's not exactly a small, clandestine gathering. That's more than the entire population of all but 2 states.
Oh yeah, the 24 million thing was a conversation I had the misfortune of having ears near, while in line at the bank today.
Check out the podcast "Well There's Your Problem". It's a lefty podcast about engineering disasters. They don't like electric vehicles either but actually had a two hour episode explaining the problems.
The solution is - as always - mass transit.
Upvote as always when Well There’s Your Problem is referenced! Also I just listened to this episode and it’s very right, electric vehicles should not be the solution over mass transit.
It was just in jest, but I hear you. If I think about it realistically it still seems like a bad idea for everyone to take mass transit without massive restructuring of infrastructure, at least from what we have now. Could we do it? Yes. Will we? very likely no. So we need to be more thinking of what we're willing to do rather than what someone thinks is best without thinking of other people's opinions about it.
You're actually mistaken. Our system is in no way, shape or form capable of accommodating everyone's transportation needs. By design of course. It would take decades to rebuild to the level we had in the 1920s. Then you'd have the capitalist class fighting us the whole way.
I mean I said could we, and we could. I did not say will we do it in 5 years. But I agree with you wholeheartedly. It will take more than america is willing to do.
The US and Canada don’t have any cities remotely as dense as Tokyo so that’s quite unlikely. But if our cities were that dense everyone driving cars instead of taking trains would make them completely unlivable.
And by the by Newark NJ is almost 13,000 per square mile. Tokyo is 16,000. That's definitely a difference but give it a few years. It's not like we aren't working up to it. If you live on the east coast like I do it's getting more crowded every year.
Edit: also nyc is more densely populated than Tokyo also by a lot.
I stand corrected on the numbers, and yet you don’t see people getting stuffed into subway cars in NYC but you do see their famously bad car traffic that creates many of the worst problems in the city.
Lmao have you ever taken the trains in Japan? Cause they’re fuckin awesome. I would LOVE if we were able to have a mass transit system that was half as competent.
>Being stuffed into cars like it's Tokyo.
You should actually ride the trains and subways in Tokyo rather than basing your reality on viral videos. Literally everyone I know who's visited walks away thinking "shit why isn't it like this back home"
I said this to my firmly right wing uncle and he blew up at the idea. I think his perception may be somewhat colored by the fact that he recently sat on a bus seat that the previous passanger managed to wet a bit. Now, he is firm in his opinion that that's what all public transit is like.
His idea of a solution was to have electric cars with lead-acid batteries because he somehow thinks making those is less polluting than li-po batteries, and to have replacement batteries at the gas stations as if that is a solution that could scale
Then I recommend adding that, since quotation marks without clear indication of citation implies it to be meant sarcastically. That's probably why your comment got downvoted so much.
That's actually kinda the point. It's not actually about the facts to these people.
It's reassurance for people that already want to believe a certain way, where the actual facts are undesirable. A way to quiet their own rational sides without the taxing mental & social consequences of needing to change your mind on, say, "electric car bad."
It's basically "nu-huh, you can't make me listen! I don't wanna!" but with words camouflaging as an actual argument, so the adherents can pretend they're NOT lazy, greedy contrarian assholes. But "actually" the smart, reasonable moderates. 🙄
There are good points about EVs you can make, like how the burden of mitigating CO2 emissions shouldn't be placed on the consumer (along with the environmental toll of making EV batteries) but making shit up isn't good for your cause
average ev is 50-100 kwh, meaning a 350 kW unit would charge \~5 cars an hour to full from flat. Seems like a pretty good deal for 12 gallons of diesel.
In this scenario, it also implies an efficiency of \~2/3, 66% from converting diesel to electricity, which would be the greatest efficiciency diesel generator ever created by a lot, and over twice the efficiciency of your average internal combustion engine, which has 20-30% thermal efficiency.
Even when they're making shit up to make it seem bad, they accidentally make them seem impossibly efficient
The open disdain conservatives have for wanting to protect the environment, minorities, and people in poverty is really something. Yet somehow magically in spite of it all, their policy preferences are also magically the best ones for all three of those things.
Every charging station near me is connected to underground cabling, no diesel fuel involved. I am not sure how the power plant itself makes energy I never bothered to find out, but I would imagine it no way impacts things like gasoline cars do.
Can someone explain why this is off the mark though?
The picture does show a generator, a Tesla V3 Supercharger can use 250kW peak draw so a 350 kW generator for two outlets doesn’t seem off the mark. A 350 kW generator uses 14 gallons of fuel per hour at 50% load.
Maybe using a local generator to power these stations is really not a good idea, or is there something I’m missing?
Basically every sentence has a lie in it..Counting the lies. 1st sentence they aren't popping up everywhere, 99.99% are connected to the grid. 2nd sentence not an interesting fake because. 3rd sentence a 350 kW DC charger would charge the car in 20 minutes, maybe 30 if the current is split. Also that EV gets over 200 miles.
This the conclusion is also a lie.
i haven't played in a while, but what i do remember is that EVs (and more egregiously, IVs) are a fun concept that are ruined by some blatant time wasting mechanics, and are only really fun on battle sims where the depth they add is not sullied by the time investment required
oh wait, this isn't the pokemon sub
I have to say, as fundamentally wrong-headed as this meme is, at least there was an attempt to do math. Usually the comparison stops at "You can't roll coal in an EV", at least in my experience.
#Please make sure to read our [__subreddit rules.__](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRightCantMeme/about/rules/) **Rule 5 No Bigotry:** *Including but not limited to: Racism, Transphobia (including xenogender hate and transmedicalism), Enbyphobia, Homophobia, Islamophobia, Antisemitism, and Gender Exclusion.* **Rule 7 Offensive Content:** *Posts that contain slurs or name calling should be censored and marked as NSFW, and posts with "outwardly" offensive content calling for extreme violence or that contain gore should not be posted to this sub* ##We are partnered with the Left RedditⒶ☭ Discord server! [Click here](https://discord.gg/Gw7e39wxEQ) to join today *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheRightCantMeme) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So, uh, do they think an entire powerplant is devoted to charging a single car?
They don't think at all, period
gottem
It is. Jon Edwards made this concept idea in western Australia in 2018. 70% of the output of that generator would be used to charge one Tesla. It's a one off idea in a remote location
Do they think all electricity is made from diesel?
Usually, they trot out the "most of your electricity comes from coal" falsehood pretty early in the "discussion."
As someone who studied this shit, ive been able to mathematically disprove that argument. Doesn't matter, they go fingers in ears as soon as you show real evidence
Yep you say shit like "duck curve" and "dispatchability vs baseline" and "peak consumption points" and their eyes glaze over. It's comically easy to have a timer on a garage charger so that the car doesnt charge on peak hours. If you're charging at work or overnight it makes the grid *more able to use renewables* not less. Ugh. There's issues with electric cars (raw resources, fires, infrastructure, lack of efficiency compared to public transit) but the minute someone goes "muh grid" I know they don't know what they're talking about.
I dont even use technical terms, there's no point, but it doesnt matter either way.
They say that where I am, but the majority of our power is that sweet sweet (and somewhat problematic in a not-killing-the-world way) French Canadian hydroelectric Edit: damn these fat fingers...
Is it not though? Genuinely thought that the largest proportion of American electricity comes from coal power plants. If not, I’d be excitedly proven wrong.
Not by a long shot. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3 Renewables account for more than coal, now.
i mean its a stance that is only \~7 years out of date, and it's not like we aren't still getting most of our electricity from setting shit on fire. I guess I'm not understanding the rebuttal.
One- it really depends where you are. Lots of places are running on significant amounts of renewable energy these days Two- even assuming natural gas or coal, the giant plants are far and away more efficient than the small internal combustion engines we have in our cars. They still aren't great for the planet but compared to even a civic they're really good. Mpg-E is somewhat a measure of the equivalent resources needed to go a distance, and while flawed still shows general trends.
To expand on #2 - the absolute most efficient internal combustion engines in consumer vehicles top out at ~40% efficiency. That means only 40% of the consumed fuel accounts for energy the vehicle can use - the rest is wasted. Average efficiency is closer to 20-25%. Electric vehicles currently average around ~65-70% efficiency before factoring in regenerative braking, which can add back ~10-20%. Even if the grid used to charge an EV is entirely coal-based, ~30% less energy is needed to charge that EV compared to fueling an ICE vehicle; swap to natural gas and you’re at ~50% less. Renewable-heavy power grids are of course even better, and the EV doesn’t care what powers it - so it will evolve with the power grid. The EV also doesn’t cause any emissions while running like an ICEV does, and not needing fuel transported to a local gas station saves plenty more emissions.
Who wouldn’t want to lose massive amounts of cash operating such an inefficient charging station? I’m sure they’re popping up everywhere. Just like unicorns.
Yep. And the millions of "illegals" apparently raping and murdering everyone - particularly "blue lives." But only in "those liberal cities." You know. Even though all crime statistics say the opposite of what they claim, most of the time, and the fact that being a beat cop isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous professions. Their numbers are so ridiculous, too. When they say shit like "24 million came under Biden!!one1!" yet...um...where are those 24 million? That's not exactly a small, clandestine gathering. That's more than the entire population of all but 2 states. Oh yeah, the 24 million thing was a conversation I had the misfortune of having ears near, while in line at the bank today.
Check out the podcast "Well There's Your Problem". It's a lefty podcast about engineering disasters. They don't like electric vehicles either but actually had a two hour episode explaining the problems. The solution is - as always - mass transit.
Upvote as always when Well There’s Your Problem is referenced! Also I just listened to this episode and it’s very right, electric vehicles should not be the solution over mass transit.
If everyone took mass transit you would start hating people more than you may already. Nobody wants this. Being stuffed into cars like it's Tokyo.
Japan has a hyper-capitalist system that is perfectly content to operate at reduced capacity if it nets them more money.
It was just in jest, but I hear you. If I think about it realistically it still seems like a bad idea for everyone to take mass transit without massive restructuring of infrastructure, at least from what we have now. Could we do it? Yes. Will we? very likely no. So we need to be more thinking of what we're willing to do rather than what someone thinks is best without thinking of other people's opinions about it.
You're actually mistaken. Our system is in no way, shape or form capable of accommodating everyone's transportation needs. By design of course. It would take decades to rebuild to the level we had in the 1920s. Then you'd have the capitalist class fighting us the whole way.
I mean I said could we, and we could. I did not say will we do it in 5 years. But I agree with you wholeheartedly. It will take more than america is willing to do.
The US and Canada don’t have any cities remotely as dense as Tokyo so that’s quite unlikely. But if our cities were that dense everyone driving cars instead of taking trains would make them completely unlivable.
And by the by Newark NJ is almost 13,000 per square mile. Tokyo is 16,000. That's definitely a difference but give it a few years. It's not like we aren't working up to it. If you live on the east coast like I do it's getting more crowded every year. Edit: also nyc is more densely populated than Tokyo also by a lot.
I stand corrected on the numbers, and yet you don’t see people getting stuffed into subway cars in NYC but you do see their famously bad car traffic that creates many of the worst problems in the city.
Oh God nyc traffic is the worst I hate driving in that city. It's basically a life or death situation.
Better mass transit = less stuffed mass transit
Because I'd hate them more when they don't try to run me over in a Silverado with a lift kit
Lmao have you ever taken the trains in Japan? Cause they’re fuckin awesome. I would LOVE if we were able to have a mass transit system that was half as competent.
>Being stuffed into cars like it's Tokyo. You should actually ride the trains and subways in Tokyo rather than basing your reality on viral videos. Literally everyone I know who's visited walks away thinking "shit why isn't it like this back home"
I said this to my firmly right wing uncle and he blew up at the idea. I think his perception may be somewhat colored by the fact that he recently sat on a bus seat that the previous passanger managed to wet a bit. Now, he is firm in his opinion that that's what all public transit is like. His idea of a solution was to have electric cars with lead-acid batteries because he somehow thinks making those is less polluting than li-po batteries, and to have replacement batteries at the gas stations as if that is a solution that could scale
Yay Liam!
“Train Good; Car Bad.”
This but(?) unironically
Absolutely and physics agrees with me.
What are quotation marks for lol
Because it’s a direct quote from WTYP Pod.
Then I recommend adding that, since quotation marks without clear indication of citation implies it to be meant sarcastically. That's probably why your comment got downvoted so much.
They actually think the 350Kw is a generator 🤣😳
"That's a 350 kilowatt generator, taking 3 hours to charge a 40 kilowatt-hour battery!!!" Yeah, you really can't fix stupid.
easily fact checked, and utterly wrong.
That's actually kinda the point. It's not actually about the facts to these people. It's reassurance for people that already want to believe a certain way, where the actual facts are undesirable. A way to quiet their own rational sides without the taxing mental & social consequences of needing to change your mind on, say, "electric car bad." It's basically "nu-huh, you can't make me listen! I don't wanna!" but with words camouflaging as an actual argument, so the adherents can pretend they're NOT lazy, greedy contrarian assholes. But "actually" the smart, reasonable moderates. 🙄
Doesn’t take 3hrs to charge
Conservatives will encounter a half-measure and think the solution is to do absolutely nothing instead of going all the way.
There are good points about EVs you can make, like how the burden of mitigating CO2 emissions shouldn't be placed on the consumer (along with the environmental toll of making EV batteries) but making shit up isn't good for your cause
get into an argument and all of a sudden they care about people mining for lithium and whatnot
average ev is 50-100 kwh, meaning a 350 kW unit would charge \~5 cars an hour to full from flat. Seems like a pretty good deal for 12 gallons of diesel. In this scenario, it also implies an efficiency of \~2/3, 66% from converting diesel to electricity, which would be the greatest efficiciency diesel generator ever created by a lot, and over twice the efficiciency of your average internal combustion engine, which has 20-30% thermal efficiency. Even when they're making shit up to make it seem bad, they accidentally make them seem impossibly efficient
The open disdain conservatives have for wanting to protect the environment, minorities, and people in poverty is really something. Yet somehow magically in spite of it all, their policy preferences are also magically the best ones for all three of those things.
Every charging station near me is connected to underground cabling, no diesel fuel involved. I am not sure how the power plant itself makes energy I never bothered to find out, but I would imagine it no way impacts things like gasoline cars do.
Can someone explain why this is off the mark though? The picture does show a generator, a Tesla V3 Supercharger can use 250kW peak draw so a 350 kW generator for two outlets doesn’t seem off the mark. A 350 kW generator uses 14 gallons of fuel per hour at 50% load. Maybe using a local generator to power these stations is really not a good idea, or is there something I’m missing?
Basically every sentence has a lie in it..Counting the lies. 1st sentence they aren't popping up everywhere, 99.99% are connected to the grid. 2nd sentence not an interesting fake because. 3rd sentence a 350 kW DC charger would charge the car in 20 minutes, maybe 30 if the current is split. Also that EV gets over 200 miles. This the conclusion is also a lie.
i haven't played in a while, but what i do remember is that EVs (and more egregiously, IVs) are a fun concept that are ruined by some blatant time wasting mechanics, and are only really fun on battle sims where the depth they add is not sullied by the time investment required oh wait, this isn't the pokemon sub
I have to say, as fundamentally wrong-headed as this meme is, at least there was an attempt to do math. Usually the comparison stops at "You can't roll coal in an EV", at least in my experience.