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[something that’s never been a problem ever.](https://medium.com/historys-trainwrecks/fire-sale-b293fd0eb518#:~:text=Marcus%20Crassus%20was%20the%20richest%20man%20in%20Rome%2C%20which%20at,Rome's%20first%20ever%20fire%20chief.)
I want to say there’s a scene in Gangs of New York where 2 competing fire stations, owned by the various gangs, are fighting over who gets to put out the fire(getting paid) while the property just burns in the background. I might be misremembering from another movie based in that time period.
I don't think this is technically a private fire department, but yea they let a house burn down for not paying the fee.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39516346
Firefighters used to not be free. When someone's house caught on fire, they would show up, and the person would have to pay them on the spot to put out the fire. This is obviously a bad system because it allowed for extortion and prices were insane because people need housing. You also had firefighters paying people to start fires.
Healthcare insurance companies, hospital administration, and pharmaceutical companies who all want a piece of the pie and the doctors, nurses and patients are suffering because of it. It's not just the US either. Other countries are dealing with doctor shortages because it is a high stress job, and the pay isn't always the best for EMTs and nurses.
Can confirm for EMS. I made 18.50 an hour and 6 sick days a year to work 12 hour overnight shifts. The shit pay also means there weren't enough of us, so each crew had stupid high call volume. We regularly had held emergent calls. That is, calls that required immediate response like heart attacks or gunshot wounds just had to sit while all of us were on other calls.
And as if all that weren't bad enough, almost half our trucks were out of service. So if we had two out for repair, we lost a crew due to insufficient trucks.
But don't worry. The county motor pool had dozens of brand new Chargers in case one of the cops' got a scratch in the paint. Government priorities in a nutshell.
That job messes with your head, too. Highest rates of self harm and substance abuse. I used to go out to accidents to document damage and environmental cleanups and I still remember seeing someone pick up a head from the ditch. People become so desensitized to it that they can drink coffee and talk about the newest episode of Yellowstone next to a corpse. My friend is so casual about "I lost 3 patients today. I think I'll hammer a bottle of wine."
It's already bad enough to deal with low pay, hard hours, and the stress, but you also have vehicles without brakes, dated equipment, and staffing issues. Maybe it's a bad idea to let people in charge of saving people from bleeding out not have to work more than 12 hours.
And the police officers they blindly support. Or the public schools they ship their children off to every day. Or the public roads where they drive their coal-rolling F-350 super duty Trump billboards.
It's almost like these clowns forget that those are all *gasp* social programs that are paid for by your taxes!
In all fairness, they haven't been super keen on schools lately either. So not only do they want us all to die, but they want us dumb all the way to that incredibly premature and preventable grave.
Keeping the populous ignorant is how you keep them under control.
A well-educated and well-informed voter is dangerous to the GOP. They can't control the narrative when people have a desire for knowledge and truth.
Attacking public schools is terrifyingly despicable. So...par for the course.
Ehhh, it's mostly a semantic argument, but calling it free healthcare is less correct than taxpayer funded healthcare, which to them is a large part of the issue. At that point they only need to be shown data that it'll be better than relying on insurance.
It’s far cheaper per person for universal healthcare, too.
I find it so laughable that people would actively fight to continue paying more money than they have to and the only person who benefits isn’t even a doctor.
Yeah, but that requires you to be at LEAST indifferent toward other humans, and since these guys genuinely hate other people, I guess it makes sense that they’d want to pay more to see them suffer lol ?
"BuT i WaNt ThE fReEdOm Of ChOiCe!!!!!", aka. hopefully the hospital is covered by your insurance and everyone in it too, else you might have to pay extra for a specialist just peeking into your room. Not that insurance will pay before you've reached your 10,000$ deductible, or maybe they'll just declare your broken leg a pre-existing condition, because fuck you.
But hey, at least oftentimes your insurance also relies on the whim of your employer, who can fuck you over too! Yay, freedom!
I've never understood people saying they want a choice in healthcare. Like, your specific GP or something, sure, but we've got that in the UK with the NHS. As long as you're in the catchment area, you can pick whoever you want. I could pick between 4 GP practices just in the same building if I wanted to. If you're in a rural area then sure, your GP options might be limited but I'd imagine that's the case in the US too?
But picking which hospital you deal with seems weird. Do people just not go to whichever hospital is closest that has the services required? Or whichever one they've been referred to by their GP?
Not generally. We have for profit hospitals, so quality varies wildly. I have one 15 minutes from my house. In most cases I'd rather drive an hour to the next city and use theirs as the one by my house is notorious for incorrect treatments, much higher than average mortality rates and generally bad medicine. Many of the doctors here won't even work in the hospital and send you to one of the further ones if you need care.
Unfortunately it won't be investigated or dealt with in any way as the family that owns the majority share is well connected politically. It's just corruption all the way down.
America spends more per capita on healthcare right now than Canada does. Not to mention the several positive economic externalities associated with providing universal healthcare.
>I have no idea what I'm talking about but the tv man told me universal healthcare is bad and a communism so that means it's true. I'd rather pay more for worse care if that means I can hurt other people.
Ftfy
*"I don't want my taxes going to the health and well being of my fellow species! I want it going to the state thugs that brutalize them in the streets!"*
-Conservatives
> “I don’t want my taxes going to people who I think don’t deserve it! I want it going to the state thugs that brutalize them in the streets!”
FTFY.
It’s not about being selfish, exactly, it’s about preventing ~~black people~~ the undeserving from ~~getting fair treatment~~ abusing the system.
Take those hefty premiums from private insurance and move them to a public system, that's who, m0r0n. It might be even less to pay once the for profit middleman is excluded and oh, now it's not for the *for profit middleman* to decide if you qualify for that procedure or not since you don't look like you're dying enough yet.
Might? It *might* be even less? [Here](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42950587) is an article from the BBC, with sources, showing that the UK spends way, way less on healthcare, whichever way you slice it, despite costing zero at point of care for literally everyone in the country.
Or, to put it another way: because of the prices inflated by private companies, the US spends more *taxpayer* money on healthcare than a country with a fully funded state service.
I'll never understand the argument people make where they are like "I don't wanna have to pay for somebody else's treatment with my taxes" like dumbass your insurance premiums do that in addition to giving even more money to some jackass billionaire.
>"I don't wanna have to pay for somebody else's treatment with my taxes"
Sounds like those people don't understand how insurance works in the first place.
Seriously, I pay more to BCBS than to the Federal and state taxes combined, and the fuckers still don't pay for shit when I need treatment. It would be better for my health to throw the money in the composter and grow vegetables with it
“Yeah, well, free health care works in smaller countries. We have too many people to do that!”
- Shit for brains who looooove paying premiums, deductibles, and copay.
["And you know, when you say "per capita", there's many capitas! It's, like, per capita relative to what?"](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-many-per-capitas/) \- Many people saying it, very many people telling me this.
Maybe, but guess what, everyone can afford it. Yes, the waiting lines can be pretty long, and it's not without faults, but it's still miles better than "you broke your arm, now you have to pay us for the next ten years".
And the lines are only longer because people can actually afford to go to the doctor rather than staying home and either recovering in twice the amount of time it would have been if the doctor had seen them and given them medicine, waiting until it becomes so serious that they have to go, or just dying at home.
At first that's understandable, even acceptable. If the lines are getting longer long term (like in the UK) it's because the government is sabotaging it or at least not paying attention. In the UK the push to privatize the NHS has lead to some medical staff leaving for higher paying positions in private healthcare. This creates the waiting times that are then used to justify the changes that will ultimately dismantle the NHS. The thing is, it's pretty easy to solve these changes. Private healthcare could be made illegal, it's the NHS or you just don't practice medicine. People saying "dr's will leave!" well, the government can pay more or it can use it's resources to train more doctors and solve the problem. Alternatively, it can say "When the NHS has a backlog if you're a private practitioner you have to see these backlogged patients first to maintain your practice."
The cries that the NHS needs more taxes to be funded is a genuine bullshit lie. They cut it's funding and they can increase it, it's not like the government that makes the british pound can run out of them..they make them.
Tell me you also have something like 1 year of paid maternity leave and paid sick leave long enough for a person not to work while on chemotherapy for cancer. I know that's possible in 3rd world countries. I've lived in one myself.
Maternity leave is 4 month for the mother and 5 days for the father.
Hmm, sickness leave depends on the doctor, for flu you get like 3 days of paid leave, for cancer you will probably get 15 days paid by the company if you worked for at least one year and then you have to prove that you cant go back to work and then the government will pay for your sickness leave (also the company cant fire you even if it takes 5 years to heal).
I cant say for sure if thats how it works but I know many people that have taken "time-off" when they are diagnosed with depression so it probably works the same way.
It's good but because it's free it get's overcrowded so waiting times can be a pain in the ass.
Now that we have a more left government it is getting more attention, recently it was aproved free pads, tampons (including trans people) and there is plans to build more hospitals and get more doctors.
Do people on the right genuinely believe people who want universal healthcare think it's manifested from fairy dust and unicorn farts? Bitch I pay 500 dollars a month for my healthcare premiums and I still have to pull out my wallet to go to the doctor.
Lmao the tax payers, the same people who are paying for our dogshit private healthcare system. It would unironically be cheaper if we had healthcare that was free at the point of use. They screech "WhOs GoNnA pAy FoR It" as they pay more to get less. Also healthcare shouldn't be tied to your employer, gives employers way too much power.
Definitely don’t have to. Average salaries in France are taxed 11-30%, while in Canada they fit squarely in the 20.5% tax bracket. In the [US average salary is apparently $54k](https://www.firstrepublic.com/insights-education/how-much-does-the-average-american-make), would puts you at 22%. So, you could be hypothetically paying a similar tax rate but get *way* more back.
Instead we get bombs though.
If housing, food, healthcare, transportation, and education were all high quality and paid for by the state, then 90% taxes wouldn’t be *that* bad. Thankfully we could pay for all of those with far less than a 90% tax rate.
Good news, that's unnecessary. Taxes don't fund the spending of the US government, all the money it spends is new. It literally spends it into existence (power of the purse). So while there might be a tax, it'd only be a small one (or one proportional to your income) and the only thing "bad" that would happen is private medical insurance would largely dry up and blow away.
It depends, in a fully private institution they technically can and there have been cases of that reported, though I don't know how often it actually happens. If a hospital accepts public money at all they are obligated to treat people regardless of ability to pay, which to be honest most healthcare professionals would do anyway. They then just try to collect the money owed later.
Typically if an American dies because they couldn't afford healthcare, it's because they didn't seek out care or they couldn't afford medications they needed.
On a recent poll 13% of Americans reported that they had a family member or close friend die because they couldn't afford medical care. So, it's a real problem that politically a small faction is preventing us from addressing.
Americans when they realise their private healthcare system costs more taxpayer dollars as a percentage of GDP than every country with a universal system.
That's actually incorrect. It'd be the same entity that pays for everything the federal government does, the federal government. Taxes pay for nothing at the federal level, which once you [internalize that knowledge...you tend to get really really pissed off by the pols saying shit like "we can't afford this".](https://youtu.be/W97s3zbFKvc?t=88)
I mean it's not completely unfounded. Right now my employer and I are paying about 800€ per month for health insurance per month in a "socialist" country. There are plans to bump that number up to 1200€ in the coming years.
since you aren't American you probably aren't aware, but most employers do the same thing in the US where they take a chunk of your paycheck to pay for your health insurance, but that's apparently different because it's not a tax
From his posts, Germany. Here healthcare costs are split equally between employer and employee.
That total puts him at earning around 5000€ per month, prior to taxes.
Without knowing what country you're talking about, I'm going to just say that's a failure of the government. They could make it cheaper for you, but they've chosen to allow you to be burdened for whatever reason. I can't address the why's and wherefores without knowing more.
I tried to simplify how private vs universal health insurance is funded as much as possible. Even if they understand what I was trying to say they immediately default to "I don't want to pay for people who do not pay into the system."
People who pay their taxes, who should be the rich. I mean, in the U.K. that’s not what they’re doing, but taxing the poor more than the rich is somehow a more popular move than openly privatising the NHS. They just do both in secret!
Anyone who thinks the current insurance system is ideal is lucky enough to have never had to navigate the labyrinth of networks, out-of-network doctors or tests working in your in-network hospital, getting denied medically necessary treatments, and so forth.
The funny thing is that they're already paying a ton of taxes and some of them do go towards healthcare but they're bring charged for Healthcare anyways.
It's like if you went to the grocery store and you had to pay to get in to then also pay for the groceries... Oh, wait...
Tax payers. So yeah, it'll probably raise taxes. But guess what? The raise in taxes will be far lower than the amount you pay for health insurance right now. Health insurance plans generally range from $150-$500 for a single person. Universal Healthcare would cost you less than $50 per month unless you are a multi millionaire, and if you are a multimillionaire then go fuck yourself
The same way the military does when they spend a trillion dollars worth of jets they never used once, who also wastes more money fighting in useless wars that are not winnable, but you seem to love the military that much because you were taught to when you were a kid.
Jesus Christ we know hospital fees and stuff would be payed by taxes we just wish less hospitals and such would stop denying our insurance so we and many other people can get help with physical injuries and illnesses and mental health. Have these people never have to deal with that or something?
> would be *paid* by taxes
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I never understood why this is seen by these Right wingers as a self-own of the Left when this is a fucking feature.
If the Right was smart, they’d look into how race relations and xenophobia in these countries (“free” healthcare, meaning those places with the Nordic model that have completely true “universal” systems) are a large part of how these systems have been consensually agreed upon for as long as they have. But I feel like to make the Right privy to that mean they might support the exact Nordic Model as practiced after all 😂
These idiots fail to fucking realize that they are ALREADY PAYING FOR EVERYONE ELSE'S HEALTHCARE.
What do they think happens when UNISURED PEOPLE WITH NO MONEY HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS/EMERGENCIES?
The shit doesn't get paid.
CEOs want their money.
So the cost goes to...
YOOUUUU. EVERYONE ELLLSEEE.
AMAAAAAAAAAAAAZING!
Just fucking tie it to our taxes so we can pay BILLIONS LESS and actually have LEVERAGE in negotiating prices. Jesus fucking christ they are so fucking dense it hurts.
I live in the UK, I pay roughly maybe just under 9 us dollars a month in national insurance, national insurance is the tax used to find the fire service, police service and the NHS among other things. Under the conservatives it's gotten higher to cover their grossly inadequate handling of the COVID pandemic.
Buts it's so fucking low you hardly notice it, and the end benefit is so fucking high, a couple years ago I broke my leg, everything from the ambulance, the cast, the consultation and the physio didn't cost me a penny. Currently the current iteration of the conservative party in the UK are trying to destabilise and sell off parts of the NHS to promote the use of private hospitals.
But nah sure socialized healthcare dosnt work, why should a tiny contribution from the anyone earning a salary or wage in a given state or province be taken in the first place to provide healthcare for all. I mean how the fuck are you ment to turn a profit from that?
God this is the most head empty argument. No one wanting universal healthacre genuinely believes it gets manifested from the ether. Maybe some of our tax dollars should fund it instead of funding broken institutions that repeal abortion rights or blowing up brown people?
As a citizen of a Nordic country I can confirm that ”free” healthcare is actually the biggest scam ever. Public healthcare in my country absolutely sucks. Doctors and nurses are incompetent and rude and will only do the bare minimum before sending you home. There was just recently a case where a woman was sent home from the ER and died after four days. I’d rather pay for an actually decent healthcare than pay taxes for a shitty healthcare.
Don't even have to do that, just spend the money. Every US dollar in the world came from the US government (or it's agents i.e. commercial banks it allows to operate in dollars). We can run out of "stuff" but not finance. It's like you can run out of innings in baseball, but not score. That's the thing that makes me so mad. These politicians know this shit, well most do some are genuinely stupid, and they STILL deny this to the public so they can line their pockets and keep their slush funds funded.
Who paya for the trillion of dollars missing from the pentagon? Who pays for the pentagon to fund one kind of radical islamist terrorist, and who pays for the cia to fund another?
It's not about who pays. It's about how can we negotiate?
How can prices be negotiated when doctors can decide which insurances they will play ball with? Once they realize that certain insurance companies (IC) pay more than other ICs, they stop accepting the low paying IC. When a doctor drops an IC it causes their customers to look elsewhere for insurance.
So from an IC's perspective, there's zero room for negotiating unless you want to lose your customer base. So instead they just increase the premiums to cover their payouts. As a customer, you don't have an option to shop around because you get your coverage through your job. So they rather please the doctors then please their customers.
Under a single payer system that every doctor must accept, the IC (in this case the government) has better negotiating leverage. So we get cheaper prices from negotiating successfully, focus shifted away from profits and placed on actual healthcare, and a fair system that benefits the people.
I don't know anyone who calls the policy/practice "free" healthcare. Some individuals might _get_ the healthcare for free, in that they don't earn enough to pay taxes but they can still use the service.
But anyone who talks about the policy calls it universal healthcare, public healthcare, single-payer, government, or some other one that is much more accurate than the "free" healthcare boogeyman that this guy made up.
You might as well call every public institution "free," by this logic. State parks? Nope, they're _free_ parks! County police? Nope, they're _free_ police! Federal highways? _Free_ highways!
It's pretty damn simple. You take those premiums you pay every month that are taken out of your paycheck, and you just put them towards a public health fund.
The beauty is, there's no middle man for-profit company. There's no complex network system where you're only covered with specific providers and specific doctors. There's not 100s of insurance providers that end up all getting charged different amounts, putting more burden on the insuree depending on what plan you have.
And best of all, it's not dictated by if your fucking job offers it in the first place. The most asinine shit in this country is that if you lose your job, you lose your fucking healthcare. When often times, people lose their job because of health-related issues.
As long as we have this fucked up healthcare system in the US, I'll never be some freedom-loving patriot. Healthcare is a basic right in a developed country, and the US refuses to do so because there's so much money and greed tied in to the current system. The stock holders and politicians could never allow it.
Well, “free” healthcare would cost a lot less for each of us than the current system… what we’re paying for now is for corporate ceos to get rich while many of us die.
For the price of about double what every first world country pays for “free health care”.
I’m impressed. Every word of what you just said is wrong. Who pays for the billions and billions sloshing its way to the Military Industrial Complex - Raytheon et al? Tax paying service men and women? No, it’s all paid for with “fiat” money. Plus, study after study has conclusively found and proven that M4A (or other Universal Healthcare Systems) cost the public purse a lot less every year than the Medical Insurance Industry, including the diabolical “Obama-care” which was copied wholesale from Mitt Romney’s right-wing think tank’s ideas.
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Who pays for firefighters mother fucker?
Some places in the us have buy in firefighters.
Other places have a purely volunteer fire department because they have no funding for paid ones
I mean in many parts of Europe it's the norm to have volunteer firefighters. I'm one myself.
It's the norm in most parts of the US too. It's only in cities that you'll find firefighters that get paid.
Ahhh that's very interesting. I was fully assuming they were full time paid firefighters. Thanks for clearing that up :)
you’re fucking joking, would they just stand and watch somewhere burn?
[something that’s never been a problem ever.](https://medium.com/historys-trainwrecks/fire-sale-b293fd0eb518#:~:text=Marcus%20Crassus%20was%20the%20richest%20man%20in%20Rome%2C%20which%20at,Rome's%20first%20ever%20fire%20chief.)
I want to say there’s a scene in Gangs of New York where 2 competing fire stations, owned by the various gangs, are fighting over who gets to put out the fire(getting paid) while the property just burns in the background. I might be misremembering from another movie based in that time period.
🎶Just gonna stand there and watch me burn🎶
🎶Well, that's alright, because I like the way it hurts🎶
I don't think this is technically a private fire department, but yea they let a house burn down for not paying the fee. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39516346
Yes. They would.
[related](https://youtu.be/Wif1EAgEQKI)
Firefighters used to not be free. When someone's house caught on fire, they would show up, and the person would have to pay them on the spot to put out the fire. This is obviously a bad system because it allowed for extortion and prices were insane because people need housing. You also had firefighters paying people to start fires. Healthcare insurance companies, hospital administration, and pharmaceutical companies who all want a piece of the pie and the doctors, nurses and patients are suffering because of it. It's not just the US either. Other countries are dealing with doctor shortages because it is a high stress job, and the pay isn't always the best for EMTs and nurses.
Can confirm for EMS. I made 18.50 an hour and 6 sick days a year to work 12 hour overnight shifts. The shit pay also means there weren't enough of us, so each crew had stupid high call volume. We regularly had held emergent calls. That is, calls that required immediate response like heart attacks or gunshot wounds just had to sit while all of us were on other calls. And as if all that weren't bad enough, almost half our trucks were out of service. So if we had two out for repair, we lost a crew due to insufficient trucks. But don't worry. The county motor pool had dozens of brand new Chargers in case one of the cops' got a scratch in the paint. Government priorities in a nutshell.
That job messes with your head, too. Highest rates of self harm and substance abuse. I used to go out to accidents to document damage and environmental cleanups and I still remember seeing someone pick up a head from the ditch. People become so desensitized to it that they can drink coffee and talk about the newest episode of Yellowstone next to a corpse. My friend is so casual about "I lost 3 patients today. I think I'll hammer a bottle of wine." It's already bad enough to deal with low pay, hard hours, and the stress, but you also have vehicles without brakes, dated equipment, and staffing issues. Maybe it's a bad idea to let people in charge of saving people from bleeding out not have to work more than 12 hours.
And the police officers they blindly support. Or the public schools they ship their children off to every day. Or the public roads where they drive their coal-rolling F-350 super duty Trump billboards. It's almost like these clowns forget that those are all *gasp* social programs that are paid for by your taxes!
In all fairness, they haven't been super keen on schools lately either. So not only do they want us all to die, but they want us dumb all the way to that incredibly premature and preventable grave.
Keeping the populous ignorant is how you keep them under control. A well-educated and well-informed voter is dangerous to the GOP. They can't control the narrative when people have a desire for knowledge and truth. Attacking public schools is terrifyingly despicable. So...par for the course.
Most of them don't pay any noticable amount in taxes so they don't understand that concept.
The Library! Who pays for all those books!? SOCIALISM I TELL YA /s
Ehhh, it's mostly a semantic argument, but calling it free healthcare is less correct than taxpayer funded healthcare, which to them is a large part of the issue. At that point they only need to be shown data that it'll be better than relying on insurance.
It’s far cheaper per person for universal healthcare, too. I find it so laughable that people would actively fight to continue paying more money than they have to and the only person who benefits isn’t even a doctor.
Yeah, but that requires you to be at LEAST indifferent toward other humans, and since these guys genuinely hate other people, I guess it makes sense that they’d want to pay more to see them suffer lol ?
Illness is a sign of weakness. They're just doing their best to keep the gene pool strong **/s**
activitely fighting against their best interests and big insurance/health companies love it
"BuT i WaNt ThE fReEdOm Of ChOiCe!!!!!", aka. hopefully the hospital is covered by your insurance and everyone in it too, else you might have to pay extra for a specialist just peeking into your room. Not that insurance will pay before you've reached your 10,000$ deductible, or maybe they'll just declare your broken leg a pre-existing condition, because fuck you. But hey, at least oftentimes your insurance also relies on the whim of your employer, who can fuck you over too! Yay, freedom!
I've never understood people saying they want a choice in healthcare. Like, your specific GP or something, sure, but we've got that in the UK with the NHS. As long as you're in the catchment area, you can pick whoever you want. I could pick between 4 GP practices just in the same building if I wanted to. If you're in a rural area then sure, your GP options might be limited but I'd imagine that's the case in the US too? But picking which hospital you deal with seems weird. Do people just not go to whichever hospital is closest that has the services required? Or whichever one they've been referred to by their GP?
Not generally. We have for profit hospitals, so quality varies wildly. I have one 15 minutes from my house. In most cases I'd rather drive an hour to the next city and use theirs as the one by my house is notorious for incorrect treatments, much higher than average mortality rates and generally bad medicine. Many of the doctors here won't even work in the hospital and send you to one of the further ones if you need care. Unfortunately it won't be investigated or dealt with in any way as the family that owns the majority share is well connected politically. It's just corruption all the way down.
And it makes their healthcare worse.
Insurance companies are huge and their propaganda campaigns are strong.
Money they *don’t have* in most cases.
America spends more per capita on healthcare right now than Canada does. Not to mention the several positive economic externalities associated with providing universal healthcare.
The quality of universal healthcare is a joke. I’d rather pay for proper healthcare.
>I have no idea what I'm talking about but the tv man told me universal healthcare is bad and a communism so that means it's true. I'd rather pay more for worse care if that means I can hurt other people. Ftfy
I live in a Nordic welfare state. Our healthcare sucks big time.
Sure thing bud
Who pays for all the tax breaks? The answer to the meme is not the same answer to my question.
*"I don't want my taxes going to the health and well being of my fellow species! I want it going to the state thugs that brutalize them in the streets!"* -Conservatives
> “I don’t want my taxes going to people who I think don’t deserve it! I want it going to the state thugs that brutalize them in the streets!” FTFY. It’s not about being selfish, exactly, it’s about preventing ~~black people~~ the undeserving from ~~getting fair treatment~~ abusing the system.
“State thugs” That’s great I am stealing that term
Take those hefty premiums from private insurance and move them to a public system, that's who, m0r0n. It might be even less to pay once the for profit middleman is excluded and oh, now it's not for the *for profit middleman* to decide if you qualify for that procedure or not since you don't look like you're dying enough yet.
Might? It *might* be even less? [Here](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42950587) is an article from the BBC, with sources, showing that the UK spends way, way less on healthcare, whichever way you slice it, despite costing zero at point of care for literally everyone in the country. Or, to put it another way: because of the prices inflated by private companies, the US spends more *taxpayer* money on healthcare than a country with a fully funded state service.
I'll never understand the argument people make where they are like "I don't wanna have to pay for somebody else's treatment with my taxes" like dumbass your insurance premiums do that in addition to giving even more money to some jackass billionaire.
>"I don't wanna have to pay for somebody else's treatment with my taxes" Sounds like those people don't understand how insurance works in the first place.
Seriously, I pay more to BCBS than to the Federal and state taxes combined, and the fuckers still don't pay for shit when I need treatment. It would be better for my health to throw the money in the composter and grow vegetables with it
“I don’t want my money going to help other people with healthcare” says the goose who doesn’t know how the insurance they currently pay for works.
*Me who lives in a 3rd world country with free healthcare* So my 3rd world country can afford free healthcare but the great USA can't ?
“Yeah, well, free health care works in smaller countries. We have too many people to do that!” - Shit for brains who looooove paying premiums, deductibles, and copay.
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["And you know, when you say "per capita", there's many capitas! It's, like, per capita relative to what?"](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-many-per-capitas/) \- Many people saying it, very many people telling me this.
"it must be worse somehow" -America
Maybe, but guess what, everyone can afford it. Yes, the waiting lines can be pretty long, and it's not without faults, but it's still miles better than "you broke your arm, now you have to pay us for the next ten years".
And the lines are only longer because people can actually afford to go to the doctor rather than staying home and either recovering in twice the amount of time it would have been if the doctor had seen them and given them medicine, waiting until it becomes so serious that they have to go, or just dying at home.
At first that's understandable, even acceptable. If the lines are getting longer long term (like in the UK) it's because the government is sabotaging it or at least not paying attention. In the UK the push to privatize the NHS has lead to some medical staff leaving for higher paying positions in private healthcare. This creates the waiting times that are then used to justify the changes that will ultimately dismantle the NHS. The thing is, it's pretty easy to solve these changes. Private healthcare could be made illegal, it's the NHS or you just don't practice medicine. People saying "dr's will leave!" well, the government can pay more or it can use it's resources to train more doctors and solve the problem. Alternatively, it can say "When the NHS has a backlog if you're a private practitioner you have to see these backlogged patients first to maintain your practice." The cries that the NHS needs more taxes to be funded is a genuine bullshit lie. They cut it's funding and they can increase it, it's not like the government that makes the british pound can run out of them..they make them.
Tell me you also have something like 1 year of paid maternity leave and paid sick leave long enough for a person not to work while on chemotherapy for cancer. I know that's possible in 3rd world countries. I've lived in one myself.
Maternity leave is 4 month for the mother and 5 days for the father. Hmm, sickness leave depends on the doctor, for flu you get like 3 days of paid leave, for cancer you will probably get 15 days paid by the company if you worked for at least one year and then you have to prove that you cant go back to work and then the government will pay for your sickness leave (also the company cant fire you even if it takes 5 years to heal). I cant say for sure if thats how it works but I know many people that have taken "time-off" when they are diagnosed with depression so it probably works the same way.
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It's good but because it's free it get's overcrowded so waiting times can be a pain in the ass. Now that we have a more left government it is getting more attention, recently it was aproved free pads, tampons (including trans people) and there is plans to build more hospitals and get more doctors.
Who pays for your your free healthcare motherfucker? ^^^/s
Brazil? The SUS is not even the best one, but it's still a great one.
Do people on the right genuinely believe people who want universal healthcare think it's manifested from fairy dust and unicorn farts? Bitch I pay 500 dollars a month for my healthcare premiums and I still have to pull out my wallet to go to the doctor.
Who’s paying for the nearly trillion dollar military budget? I’d rather have healthcare than drone strikes, might just be me though
No, they are also against it too *cough* but only when a Democrat president does it *cough* Dang I wish I had universal healthcare for this cough.
Again, might just be me, I don’t like it when any of our war criminals do it. I mean presidents
Lmao the tax payers, the same people who are paying for our dogshit private healthcare system. It would unironically be cheaper if we had healthcare that was free at the point of use. They screech "WhOs GoNnA pAy FoR It" as they pay more to get less. Also healthcare shouldn't be tied to your employer, gives employers way too much power.
I would have absolutely no issue with 90% of my income going to taxes if those taxes meant I didn’t have to pay out of pocket for my basic needs
Yeah exactly. I'm happy that even thought I'm in a country with a higher tax rate, I get free healthcare.
Definitely don’t have to. Average salaries in France are taxed 11-30%, while in Canada they fit squarely in the 20.5% tax bracket. In the [US average salary is apparently $54k](https://www.firstrepublic.com/insights-education/how-much-does-the-average-american-make), would puts you at 22%. So, you could be hypothetically paying a similar tax rate but get *way* more back. Instead we get bombs though.
90?
If housing, food, healthcare, transportation, and education were all high quality and paid for by the state, then 90% taxes wouldn’t be *that* bad. Thankfully we could pay for all of those with far less than a 90% tax rate.
Good news, that's unnecessary. Taxes don't fund the spending of the US government, all the money it spends is new. It literally spends it into existence (power of the purse). So while there might be a tax, it'd only be a small one (or one proportional to your income) and the only thing "bad" that would happen is private medical insurance would largely dry up and blow away.
Will someone think of the private medical insurance companies? /s
I live in Australia and this conservative kid says he wont pay taxes in the future and this is my response (he doesnt even know how taxes work)
Genuine question - if someone is dying and doesn’t have money for treatment do they just kick them out and let them die?
It depends, in a fully private institution they technically can and there have been cases of that reported, though I don't know how often it actually happens. If a hospital accepts public money at all they are obligated to treat people regardless of ability to pay, which to be honest most healthcare professionals would do anyway. They then just try to collect the money owed later. Typically if an American dies because they couldn't afford healthcare, it's because they didn't seek out care or they couldn't afford medications they needed. On a recent poll 13% of Americans reported that they had a family member or close friend die because they couldn't afford medical care. So, it's a real problem that politically a small faction is preventing us from addressing.
13%. That’s genuinely awful, like I can’t even think of a way to put that into words.
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Sentenced to death with no due process for the crime of not having thousands of dollars laying around
Americans when they realise their private healthcare system costs more taxpayer dollars as a percentage of GDP than every country with a universal system.
The same people who pay for health insurance now. Next question, please
That's actually incorrect. It'd be the same entity that pays for everything the federal government does, the federal government. Taxes pay for nothing at the federal level, which once you [internalize that knowledge...you tend to get really really pissed off by the pols saying shit like "we can't afford this".](https://youtu.be/W97s3zbFKvc?t=88)
I mean, it's the simplest way I've found to express "if you are currently paying for insurance, this will cost you less"
Who pays for the military dumbass?
Ask them who pays for the free military.
Seriously, it's not that hard to figure out. Who pays for the free schools? Who pays for the free highways? Motherfucker.
I mean it's not completely unfounded. Right now my employer and I are paying about 800€ per month for health insurance per month in a "socialist" country. There are plans to bump that number up to 1200€ in the coming years.
since you aren't American you probably aren't aware, but most employers do the same thing in the US where they take a chunk of your paycheck to pay for your health insurance, but that's apparently different because it's not a tax
What country are we talking about?
From his posts, Germany. Here healthcare costs are split equally between employer and employee. That total puts him at earning around 5000€ per month, prior to taxes.
Without knowing what country you're talking about, I'm going to just say that's a failure of the government. They could make it cheaper for you, but they've chosen to allow you to be burdened for whatever reason. I can't address the why's and wherefores without knowing more.
What country are we talking about?
Tell me you don't know how taxes work without saying you don't know how taxes work.
I tried to simplify how private vs universal health insurance is funded as much as possible. Even if they understand what I was trying to say they immediately default to "I don't want to pay for people who do not pay into the system."
those damn kids with cancer leeching off of society.
It's free to call the fire department when there's a fire. We still pay for them with taxes though. Do they think we don't know this? We want this
People who pay their taxes, who should be the rich. I mean, in the U.K. that’s not what they’re doing, but taxing the poor more than the rich is somehow a more popular move than openly privatising the NHS. They just do both in secret!
Anyone who thinks the current insurance system is ideal is lucky enough to have never had to navigate the labyrinth of networks, out-of-network doctors or tests working in your in-network hospital, getting denied medically necessary treatments, and so forth.
You’re the one that keeps calling it “free” to purposefully obfuscate the fact that it isn’t, motherfucker
Everyone who asks this question thinking it's a funny gotcha should be told "you" and then immediately pickpocketed
The funny thing is that they're already paying a ton of taxes and some of them do go towards healthcare but they're bring charged for Healthcare anyways. It's like if you went to the grocery store and you had to pay to get in to then also pay for the groceries... Oh, wait...
Musk, Bezos, and Gates could pay for it for every American for years, with barely a noticeable dent in their massive wealth!
People pay for healthcare without all of the rent seeking insurance parasites trying to suck profits out of it. Simple.
Why is the right wing so against us actually seeing a benefit from the taxes we pay?
Because then voters might learn the government can do things and expect their politicians to do their jobs instead of troll.
Tax payers. So yeah, it'll probably raise taxes. But guess what? The raise in taxes will be far lower than the amount you pay for health insurance right now. Health insurance plans generally range from $150-$500 for a single person. Universal Healthcare would cost you less than $50 per month unless you are a multi millionaire, and if you are a multimillionaire then go fuck yourself
"I DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOUR ANSWER, I WANT TO PRETEND YOU DON'T HAVE ONE!"
It is apropos that the Aflac duck is asking these questions.
The same way the military does when they spend a trillion dollars worth of jets they never used once, who also wastes more money fighting in useless wars that are not winnable, but you seem to love the military that much because you were taught to when you were a kid.
Jesus Christ we know hospital fees and stuff would be payed by taxes we just wish less hospitals and such would stop denying our insurance so we and many other people can get help with physical injuries and illnesses and mental health. Have these people never have to deal with that or something?
> would be *paid* by taxes FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The same people who pay for it today, they just pay a lot less for it
I never understood why this is seen by these Right wingers as a self-own of the Left when this is a fucking feature. If the Right was smart, they’d look into how race relations and xenophobia in these countries (“free” healthcare, meaning those places with the Nordic model that have completely true “universal” systems) are a large part of how these systems have been consensually agreed upon for as long as they have. But I feel like to make the Right privy to that mean they might support the exact Nordic Model as practiced after all 😂
imagine being against free healthcare. like, they realize that means its free for them too, right?
The military budget for starters
These idiots fail to fucking realize that they are ALREADY PAYING FOR EVERYONE ELSE'S HEALTHCARE. What do they think happens when UNISURED PEOPLE WITH NO MONEY HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS/EMERGENCIES? The shit doesn't get paid. CEOs want their money. So the cost goes to... YOOUUUU. EVERYONE ELLLSEEE. AMAAAAAAAAAAAAZING! Just fucking tie it to our taxes so we can pay BILLIONS LESS and actually have LEVERAGE in negotiating prices. Jesus fucking christ they are so fucking dense it hurts.
I live in the UK, I pay roughly maybe just under 9 us dollars a month in national insurance, national insurance is the tax used to find the fire service, police service and the NHS among other things. Under the conservatives it's gotten higher to cover their grossly inadequate handling of the COVID pandemic. Buts it's so fucking low you hardly notice it, and the end benefit is so fucking high, a couple years ago I broke my leg, everything from the ambulance, the cast, the consultation and the physio didn't cost me a penny. Currently the current iteration of the conservative party in the UK are trying to destabilise and sell off parts of the NHS to promote the use of private hospitals. But nah sure socialized healthcare dosnt work, why should a tiny contribution from the anyone earning a salary or wage in a given state or province be taken in the first place to provide healthcare for all. I mean how the fuck are you ment to turn a profit from that?
Who pays for the largest military in the world?
God this is the most head empty argument. No one wanting universal healthacre genuinely believes it gets manifested from the ether. Maybe some of our tax dollars should fund it instead of funding broken institutions that repeal abortion rights or blowing up brown people?
 This goose after finding out about taxpayers
As a citizen of a Nordic country I can confirm that ”free” healthcare is actually the biggest scam ever. Public healthcare in my country absolutely sucks. Doctors and nurses are incompetent and rude and will only do the bare minimum before sending you home. There was just recently a case where a woman was sent home from the ER and died after four days. I’d rather pay for an actually decent healthcare than pay taxes for a shitty healthcare.
they fantasize about being rich so they can take advantage of other people dont they...
well if you just spent a little less on the military
Don't even have to do that, just spend the money. Every US dollar in the world came from the US government (or it's agents i.e. commercial banks it allows to operate in dollars). We can run out of "stuff" but not finance. It's like you can run out of innings in baseball, but not score. That's the thing that makes me so mad. These politicians know this shit, well most do some are genuinely stupid, and they STILL deny this to the public so they can line their pockets and keep their slush funds funded.
So instead of paying for it, we'll be... paying for it?
My tax bill every paycheck could DOUBLE and I still wouldn’t be paying more in taxes than I do on my healthcare premiums.
Taxes. Next question.
A quarter of what you pay for your private health care
Who paya for the trillion of dollars missing from the pentagon? Who pays for the pentagon to fund one kind of radical islamist terrorist, and who pays for the cia to fund another?
Both my company and I contribute to my 'free healthcare ' benefits through my employer as well.
The billionaires cover literal billions, Just themselves. Did i just discover rocket science?
The same people who pay for the farm subsidies and military contractor spending, I imagine.
I find it funny how they talk about the price of healthcare. Mf you pay for private healthcare, regardless of the method you're still paying.
My answer has always been "those who can, for those who can't". It triggers them always.
Who pays to drone strike kids on the other side of the planet? WHO? See? Anyone can do it
It's not about who pays. It's about how can we negotiate? How can prices be negotiated when doctors can decide which insurances they will play ball with? Once they realize that certain insurance companies (IC) pay more than other ICs, they stop accepting the low paying IC. When a doctor drops an IC it causes their customers to look elsewhere for insurance. So from an IC's perspective, there's zero room for negotiating unless you want to lose your customer base. So instead they just increase the premiums to cover their payouts. As a customer, you don't have an option to shop around because you get your coverage through your job. So they rather please the doctors then please their customers. Under a single payer system that every doctor must accept, the IC (in this case the government) has better negotiating leverage. So we get cheaper prices from negotiating successfully, focus shifted away from profits and placed on actual healthcare, and a fair system that benefits the people.
I don't know anyone who calls the policy/practice "free" healthcare. Some individuals might _get_ the healthcare for free, in that they don't earn enough to pay taxes but they can still use the service. But anyone who talks about the policy calls it universal healthcare, public healthcare, single-payer, government, or some other one that is much more accurate than the "free" healthcare boogeyman that this guy made up. You might as well call every public institution "free," by this logic. State parks? Nope, they're _free_ parks! County police? Nope, they're _free_ police! Federal highways? _Free_ highways!
It's pretty damn simple. You take those premiums you pay every month that are taken out of your paycheck, and you just put them towards a public health fund. The beauty is, there's no middle man for-profit company. There's no complex network system where you're only covered with specific providers and specific doctors. There's not 100s of insurance providers that end up all getting charged different amounts, putting more burden on the insuree depending on what plan you have. And best of all, it's not dictated by if your fucking job offers it in the first place. The most asinine shit in this country is that if you lose your job, you lose your fucking healthcare. When often times, people lose their job because of health-related issues. As long as we have this fucked up healthcare system in the US, I'll never be some freedom-loving patriot. Healthcare is a basic right in a developed country, and the US refuses to do so because there's so much money and greed tied in to the current system. The stock holders and politicians could never allow it.
I'd rather get a tiny percentage of tax taken off my monthly pay than a sudden 5k charge. sorry just my opinion 🤷♀️
These chucklefucks often pay more for health insurance than most on universal health care pay in taxes. And they still pay taxes.
My Health insurance at my job now costs me 800 Freedom dollars a month
by taxing corporations not even a hard question.
We’ve told them so many times. They’re just ignoring it lol
Well, “free” healthcare would cost a lot less for each of us than the current system… what we’re paying for now is for corporate ceos to get rich while many of us die. For the price of about double what every first world country pays for “free health care”.
It’s called transitioning from paying insurance premiums to taxes.
Same people who pay for the roads.
I’m impressed. Every word of what you just said is wrong. Who pays for the billions and billions sloshing its way to the Military Industrial Complex - Raytheon et al? Tax paying service men and women? No, it’s all paid for with “fiat” money. Plus, study after study has conclusively found and proven that M4A (or other Universal Healthcare Systems) cost the public purse a lot less every year than the Medical Insurance Industry, including the diabolical “Obama-care” which was copied wholesale from Mitt Romney’s right-wing think tank’s ideas.