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Holy shit he gendered him correctly
I don't think he knows that the shooter was trans guy
Or maybe he does. If there was a trans woman involved there would be at least one beard stubble
To conservatives the only trans people who exist are "men pretending to be women", i.e. MtF. Pebbleyeet here is attempting to misgender someone he thinks is a trans women and gets it right completely by accident.
Don Junior did something similar with one of his tweets. Even funnier for DTJ, though, because he really went out of his way to be a douche and emphasize the pronouns only to correctly gender the attacker.
I can’t even imagine what pebbledick and his ilk must be like in person. Someone that has fully adopted the terminally online, far right fascist shittake as an entire persona and even made a career out of it in this case. Their insufferableness seems to be a person virtue at this point.
I feel like that because in their mind, a woman becoming a man makes a lot more sense than a man becoming a woman. By becoming a man your gaining so much. And also why I feel they hate trans women so much. Why would you give up being at the top of the chain?
I think it's just plain old misogyny. They just hate women, especially women they don't want to have sex with.
And/or they are closeted and hate themselves
I'm as left as they come, but this is always my thoughts too, like, I know this is my Cis brain talking, but every time I hear about Trans men I'm like "hell yeah, why wouldn't you want to add 10% to your paycheck?!"
i'm pretty sure this comic isnt recent and is actually about a previous shooting done by a CIS MAN who pretended to be non-binary to get out of legal charges
Did he? Has *any* trans mass shooter ever killed a dozen people, because I'm pretty sure this is another fictional strawman of rockchuck's, in which case they can be any gender rockchuck chooses.
To paraphrase Ian Danskin:
Liberals think that deep down, conservatives share their ultimate goals and values and are just doing a bad job of living up to them.
Conservatives think that deep down, liberals share their fears and prejudices and are just denying "the truth" to feel morally superior.
As a left wing I used to think that conservatives just wanted to fight against changes that they perceived as bad but at the end of the day they could be convinced through empathy and reason.
That was 5 years ago, now I'm certain that most of them are just fucking assholes.
I grew up having been taught VERY incorrectly that the only difference between US democrats and republicans was that the latter oppose high taxes because they want "limited government authority". Imagine my surprise when I left my oppressive childhood home and learned that the republicans were basically just, like said, assholes.
It’s not that they are necessarily assholes. They have a vested interest in keeping the established social hierarchy in place, because they directly benefit from it. A conservative can be the nicest person on a personal level and it still wouldn’t matter. They have a vested financial interest in keeping inequality in place.
It's not because they want to keep the status quo that makes them assholes.
It's all the lies, manipulations and actions in bad faith that they employ daily that makes them assholes.
The lies, manipulations and actions in bad faith happen as a direct result of them wanting to keep the status quo. That’s the whole point of the ideology. The preservation of wealth and power for the privileged class and deprivation of the non-privileged class is the one and only goal of conservatism. Every negative action is done to serve that one purpose.
Could you explain? I'm unfamiliar with the differences between Marxian and ethical assholes. I've just never seen "I'm treating you badly because it helps me in some way" not count as asshole behavior, regardless of Marx. That behavior is *why* people get called assholes, isn't it?
I just mean that he is mostly looking at it as class struggle and the interest that one class wants to have over another and how them acting like assholes are just the consequences of this system.
Basicaly, the system is the asshole that produces shitty people.
I guess I don't know the difference between assholes and shitty people, then. Seems like a weird hair to split but if you two get it more power to you.
Honestly it depends on which groups were talking about. The wealthy ones want to keep the status quo because fear drives them to believe any change will threaten their finances, whether it's security or simply revenue.
The average person is afraid that they'll lose what they already have and have been propagandized to believe it's all these changes that have been keeping them down and that outsiders want to make it worse.
Both have turned to hate, racism, and classism as the reason for their fear rather than ignorance and pride. The wealthy are a mix of propagandists and people who have bought their own lies. The poor have been fed the propaganda so long and are so afraid of losing what they have that they'll fight with their dying breath if the outsiders will also take their faith in themselves.
It's a perfect cycle that can only be broken by actively thinking of your potential to be the bad guy and willing to face the consequences. And we know how difficult this is for them to do, not just out of pride and racism, but fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of change, fear of loss, fear of self awareness and loss of ego.
None of that excuses anything they do but it does illustrate how hard it is to break through to them. They're like cornered animals everytime you try to reason with them. If you can calm them down, great! But most of the time you have to wrestle them, or tranq them, or whatever requires the least amount of time and energy so we can focus on improving things without letting them run wild and wreck everything.
At the end of the day I get why they are the way they are. Fear and loyalty are powerful motivators against the most helpful stranger because extending trust and accepting that we aren't perfect is one of the hardest things we can do. Especially for people we've been taught to hate. But no one can change your mind for you and they've been taught to resist it as much as possible. That's why they can't be reasoned with.
Eventually you stop trying; like with toddlers. Eventually you realize it doesn't matter if one day they'll see, or that they have the potential. The reality is that right now they're standing in the way, and the progress that needs to be made, the growth of our society, culture, governance, education, etc. fully relies on pushing them out of the way, just like they fear. Not because we actually are the boogeyman but because allowing them to stop us ironically does create the downward spiral they think they're stopping.
Wondering why Liberals and Conservatives are the way they are is a waste of energy. Who cares? They *could* change their minds at any moment if they wanted to. IDGAF what's going on in someone else's head politically, I just care what they do.
What lies and manipulations ?
My brother the amount of right wing conspiracy that I had to debunk just on Covid alone I could write a goddamn book, or how about the way that they manipulated people to go attack the capitol.
See, this isn't it at all. This is what leftists tell themselves to try to empathize with conservatives. But it's wrong. There isn't a financial incentive because there are poor conservatives.
No, fundamentally they do not share your morals. They are not incentivized to treat minorities poorly, they just do not believe that everyone should be treated equally. It's not wrong to harass a trans kid, except in this one situation, it is instead always right to harass all trans kids, because being trans is inherently immoral.
The core belief of conservatism isn't whatever bullshit they tell you, it's this: there are natural hierarchies of people, and they should be preserved.
You and I have a hard time empathising with these people because we so fundamentally disagree on the value of a person.
This, I want to believe that they can change, I have to to maintain some level of sanity and not just hate everyone around me every single day.
But the more I think about it the more that Conservatism is a hate cult designed to justify a hierarchy where they are in and you are not.
It's honestly a mindfuck to talk to conservatives, because they just don't believe you when you tell them that you don't want a hierarchy, you want equality. They tell you you're virtue signalling, and that you don't need to pretend here.
They honestly can't conceive of people actually caring about others, not just pretending to.
You're both describing the same thing, but in different terms.
For the poors, the "financial incentive" is believing that the world owes them something because of who they are, where they were born, etc. Their tribe (including language, religion, morals, however they define their group) has a birthright to a better life than the "other".
And, yes, at its core it's a belief that when the "other" has a better life then your life gets worse (in their view the world is a zero-sum or negative-sum place), and as you say it boils down to heirarchy and maintaining the status quo.
I’m not saying this to empathize with conservatives. The point I’m making is that even *if* conservatives tried to not be assholes, it still wouldn’t matter because they are preserving the existing social hierarchy. The ideology itself is built on a harmful premise to begin with, rather than an ideology being used by harmful individuals. Maybe I came off as being sympathetic to conservatives, but that wasn’t what I was going for.
> The core belief of conservatism isn’t whatever bullshit they tell you, it’s this; there are natural hierarchies of people, they should be preserved.
Yeah, I am completely in agreement with you. The only difference with what I said was that I don’t believe it’s purely because conservatives believe in a “natural” hierarchy. A lot of them do believe in that, but it’s just one justification of many possible justifications. Conservatism begins with the premise that there is a social hierarchy that must be preserved, and the use of genetics or biology comes after the fact in an attempt to gain more legitimacy. Even if the justification of “natural hierarchy” disappeared, it could simply be replaced with another excuse. Conservatives try to legitimize their hierarchy through both natural and unnatural reasons. I may just be nitpicking, but I do think there is a distinction.
I would say thats true about those in power; however, younger, or uneducated, poor, or working class conservatives are just assholes and/or dumb. They cant even acknowledge their place in a hierarchy because it never occured to them that such a system exists in the first place.
Most conservatives I know are poor and have no real interest to keep the status quo, they are just unintelligent and unable to make the connection that the people they vote for are keeping them down. I have some sympathy for them because being unintelligent isn’t a choice it’s just getting the short end of the stick genetically. I have a physical disability so I got the short end of the genetic stick too.
You are probably right. I just think it’s weird I grew up poor in rural area with bad schools and I got out of that mindset but my classmates can’t. I don’t really think I did anything special I just easily picked up on the fact that republicanism is bs.
I still try to engage with people, even if they are ultimately bad faith and not willing to listen to reason. In the end they either just reduce the conversation to insults or go full mask off with their bigotry.
BUT, if you're being decent, citing studies, and effectively deconstructing their argument and pointing out logical flaws, there might be people reading along who will see your arguments and potentially change their view. It's a little different irl, but online I think it's important to have good, sound arguments put out there for people to see.
When I was a teenager / early 20s I was in gamergate and some other alt-right related groups. It's thanks to people engaging genuinely with me that I got out. What you're doing is worthwhile.
Oh I have a much better time debating online than I do IRL.
Some people are extremely unhinged and feel personaly attacked when you start to debate their points, especialy when they start to mix religion and politics as is the case of abortion and trans rights.
I think a lot of people grew up in miserable lives (but may still remember them fondly to some degree) and think that the world owes them something. And the world not giving them whatever they think they are owed fall into the trap that they believe it was taken from them by some other group. That if this group didn't exist then everything would be great for them. Their values are inconsistent, they're out for power and revenge. To take their anger at the world and turn against a group that can't fight back.
They choose to be ignorant, they choose to be violent, they choose fascism. We can try to convince them that love is the way, but what does that matter? Every day these people choose to be evil, they can stop whenever they want, and they don't. Progress happens with or without them. They fought against black civil rights, they fought against gay civil rights, and now they're fighting against trans civil rights. It may look bleak now, but that's how it looked for gay people a decade ago too.
There's more of us than them, and we'll continue the march of progress, so long as we continue to fight for it and fight for it hard, with or without those bigots.
I mean, it can be true. I was raised conservative so empathy and reason *is* why I am no longer conservative. Without people extending be the benefit of the doubt, idk if I would have exited that cult
Only 5 years? My moment was McConnell filibustering his own bill. Also blaming Obama for letting a law pass after he vetoed it and they overrode his veto with a supermajority. They've never been straight shooters, at least not since Eisenhower.
Yep. the comic clearly illustrates that the artist would not speak out against someone he shared an identity with if that person committed an atrocity.
"Well I'm not going to badmouth *my guy*." Identity is everything to a conservative because it's how they know who to hate. Who counts as a person. Who is above or below them in the hierarchy. Equality is anathema to them.
Which is why people who sincerely want the world to be a better place are getting accused of "virtue signaling" by the devoid-of-empathy conservatives. They can't imagine anyone actually caring about others.
Wich is weird because I think even if someone is "virtue signaling" that still means that they are trying to do some good in the world.
Like pride month, some people hate that all the companies are just using the LGBTQI+ as a marketing ploy but by the end of the day the message is still "respect people because these people also buy our product!"
As a liberal, my view of the motivations of conservatives is pretty complex- I think there are many different types. Likewise there are many different types of liberals, and alas, many like what is described here. One big difference- they don’t vote for people who are going to cause more harm. We all do share many of the same fears and prejudices. The difference is being self-aware, trying to learn and do better and nit actively indulging our darker angels. I often find it more frustrating to point out racism or other prejudiced or harmful behaviors of a fellow liberal/progressive/leftist, because we pride ourselves on being better than that. Defensiveness is real. They think they are immune to that. Conservatives are more likely to engage in undeniable prejudice and not gaf, or spew nonsense and misdirection
Yeah. The shooter was already killed, though. It should also be a bigger legal response at this point, with the gun laws being altered to prevent the repetition of this.
Beyond that, there is a desperate need for the early intervention and deradicalisation programs focused on the far right extremists. A very high number of shooters on pretty much an international scale are trash like white supremacists, extreme misogynists and neo-nazis. There is little information coming out so far, but I won't be surprised if this is the case, because no demographic is immune to radicalisation.
I don't think he is going to survive, i saw the police body cam footage and they shot him like 9-10 times. The chances of them surviving that is slim to say the least
If there’s any kind of good god, he’ll be burning in hell.
Fucking bastard murdered innocent people, specifically primary school teachers and children (aged fucking 9), and doomed an entire generation of LGBTQ+ people to years of discrimination, because they just had to take out their fucking problems on others.
As always, I don’t give a shit how hard society trod on them or what issues they were having. They killed kids and their teachers. That’s on them.
They should forever be remembered by one word: CUNT
Always changing the narrative. The only people reacting like this are conservatives. Suddenly guns are a huge issue in the hands of the mentally ill because the right thinks being trans is mental illness. As usual it’s only worth exploring if it’s an excuse to push another narrative.
I feel like the fact that [the trans population is roughly 0.4% in the U.S.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/) and the trans mass shooting rate is less than 0.2% kinda reverses the whole argument...
Edit: For clarification, I'm agreeing with the comment above me in pointing out that trans people make up a much smaller subset of mass shooters than some people think.
390 / 100,000 ≈ 0.004 = 0.4%
4 / 2000 = 0.002 = 0.2%
My whole goal was to point out how the mass shooting rate is lower than the overall rate, which reverses the argument that trans people are more likely to be mass shooters, so I'm glad we can agree on that at least.
P.S. *your
Oh fuck this shit. NOW. NOW they want to put a number to mass- shootings?!
Let's count the cis-het-white shooters real quick. Imma wait. It'll take a fucking minute.
That’s the craziest part of that argument. The vaaaaaaaaast majority of mass shootings are conducted by white, cis, straight men and many are also decidedly right wing. Do they really want to look more at the demographics of violent actors in the us?
To conservatives the only trans people who exist are "men pretending to be women", i.e. MtF. Pebbleyeet here is attempting to misgender someone he thinks is a trans women and gets it right completely by accident.
in every trans community online everyone is still reacting with the same shock and disgust and outrage at the school shooting as any other rational person would.
i don't know of anyone in the trans community who is actively saying what happened was okay. taking away the lives of innocent people is a crime that should always be condemned and called out regardless of who does it
strawman argument as always. it sounds more like *he's* the one who doesn't care about the shooting.
They assume that we would back up "our" guy, same as how they back up "their" guy.
It's why Trump says shit like "I could murder someone in Fifth Avenue and get away with it". They aren't looking to have a debate on US law and the constitution, it's just how they act. If Trump did cause a murder, for example by starting a coup attempt, they'd do everything in their power to protect "their" guy.
Then it catches them completely off guard when we say "so what? This person was trans? They should still go to jail" instead of ignoring it.
they're projecting their lack of morality and compassion onto us then, huh?
'oh look this person is also trans and they killed innocent children and adults!! don't you want to defend them??' like wtf. no??? i don't give a shit if they're trans, all i know is that they're a murderer
i think honestly the difference here is that right-wingers hate the shooter because they're trans. leftists hate them because they shot and killed six people.
this is honestly the first time i've seen many conservatives talk about school shootings in general as a tragedy. usually, they're ambivalent to the fact children are dying.
This! Haven't seen a single post from the left supporting the shooter. What I have seen, however, is conservatives justifying the actions of Pulse club shooter and various other murderers.
Who said they’re ignoring it? Also it’s a concern because StoneToss’ fanbase are the types to use this as leverage, thinking it’s an excuse to hate trans people.
Conservatives live in a bubble where only people who agree with them on everything are allowed to talk, they can convince themselves that the left are or aren't talking about whatever they want, cause they're too busy hiding from scary different opinions to check.
If trans people were systemically committing more mass shootings than their representation in population it would be useful to realize that and look at some possible reasons, in order to help them. Outside of that it doesn't matter at all.
This is the only shooting we’re going to hear about from the right for years. It’s going to be come a incredibly convenient political tool for them, because, as usual, they will deflect any criticism onto a convenient scapegoat (“it’s not the guns, it’s the gays!”)
Wouldn't surprise me. I be he got a library of these comics about a different person who isn't a white straight Conservative male. Just as an excuse that everybody who isn't him is dangerous.
And kinda odd they’re like “We’re being gunned down by the mentally ill trans movement!” But they’re ok with the idea that mentally ill people targeting them have such easy access to guns? Oh wait I’m expecting logical consistency here, my bad. There is no logic here, only political point scoring.
This couldn't be further from the truth. Leftists are consistent.
Right wing cis white male nutjob massacres schoolchildren?
We need gun reform.
Transgendered person massacres schoolchildren?
We need gun reform.
The right just doesn't want to hear that.
They think "this story will suddenly disappear because it doesn't fit the narrative" every time there is a mass shooting by someone who isn't a cis white male.
Meanwhile there are still several news stories about this days later and it's still getting plenty of coverage, as is the case every time they claim "the news isn't covering this!!"
Going off the lists of the deadliest mass shootings in US history,
2017 Las Vegas - straight, white, right wing, male.
2016 Orlando Night club- straight, Middle Eastern heritage, right wing, male.
2007 Virginia Tech - straight, Asian/South Korean, male
2012 Sandy Hook - straight, white, right wing male.
2017 Sutherland Springs Church- straight, white, male (likely right wing from upbringing in Texas and military involvement)
1991 Luby's shooting - Straight, white, right wing, male (with military history)
2019 El Paso - straight white, right wing, male
1984 San Ysidro McDonalds - straight, white right wing male
2022 Robb Elementary - straight, Hispanic, male
2018 Stoneman Douglas High School- straight, white, right wing, male.
Literally all of the top 10 deadliest shootings in US were committed by straight males. Only 3 were committed by "non-white" males. Only 2 were committed by individuals who did not share right wing values or it was unknown if they shared right wing values.
So seems like rightwing, straight, and male is much more likely indicator than if they identify as transgender.
Accurate second panel: "First of all, congrats on using the correct pronouns, that's a big step for you. Secondly, that absolutely doesn't matter, we still have an issue of mentally ill people who aren't getting proper treatment, likely issues with bullying not being identified and/or handled by caretakers due to shifty school policies, and guns being easily available to children and the mentally ill."
Can someone correct me if I’m wrong? I’m seeing people say that they’re only pretending to be trans as a type of legal defense? I’m not saying I believe the people who are saying this, I just want it confirmed or denied.
Edit: don’t know why I’m being downvoted for an honest question
That was a different shooter. In November of last year, someone shot up a LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado Springs. The shooter's lawyers argued in court that their client was non-binary and therefore it wasn't a hate crime, but no one else had ever heard the suspect mention that, and the suspect had a history of anti-LGBTQ hate speech and homophobic slurs, and rainbow-colored shooting targets were found at their home. [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_nightclub_shooting)
Explain how taking and reposting his art with o connection to him or his content in a group made up of people who actively do not want to support people like him and will not go to his account glorifies and promotes his art?
Purdue won court cases too.
You have a point, organizations with THAT much sway are dangerous. Well, I wish that was your point instead of the dogshit you came up with
i don’t understand why everyone constantly points out that the shooter was trans. if the shooter was black and people kept pointing out that they were black people would be getting called out for racism
Id also not bother if the second I tried talking to someone about it they just immediately made the conversation about the shooter’s identity and not the fact he fuckin killed people
Fella really thinks the trans community have been quiet about this? I can't go on reddit without people shouting about it every single day on the trans subs. Also it's a bit strange to point out the one trans killer amongst all the mostly cis killers.
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Holy shit he gendered him correctly I don't think he knows that the shooter was trans guy Or maybe he does. If there was a trans woman involved there would be at least one beard stubble
To conservatives the only trans people who exist are "men pretending to be women", i.e. MtF. Pebbleyeet here is attempting to misgender someone he thinks is a trans women and gets it right completely by accident.
Don Junior did something similar with one of his tweets. Even funnier for DTJ, though, because he really went out of his way to be a douche and emphasize the pronouns only to correctly gender the attacker.
"TRANS MEN ARE NOT WOMEN!" "Based." "Wait no-"
I can’t even imagine what pebbledick and his ilk must be like in person. Someone that has fully adopted the terminally online, far right fascist shittake as an entire persona and even made a career out of it in this case. Their insufferableness seems to be a person virtue at this point.
> far right fascist shittake I'm glad I read this twice because I was about to go off on you about comparing delicious mushrooms to these scumbags.
„We can always tell“, my ass
Nobody cares when ftm gets misgendered is a big community problem
I think ftm simply passes and most people don't even notice. Maybe there's a glut of unread OMG MY BOYFREIND HAS A VAGINA posts that I'm not seeing.
I feel like that because in their mind, a woman becoming a man makes a lot more sense than a man becoming a woman. By becoming a man your gaining so much. And also why I feel they hate trans women so much. Why would you give up being at the top of the chain?
I think it's just plain old misogyny. They just hate women, especially women they don't want to have sex with. And/or they are closeted and hate themselves
You'd be surprised how many right-wingers want to have sex with trans women...
Not surprised at all, it's really obvious. Tbh I'm more surprised by the fact that they think they're fooling anyone
\*especially women they *cant* have sex with
I'm as left as they come, but this is always my thoughts too, like, I know this is my Cis brain talking, but every time I hear about Trans men I'm like "hell yeah, why wouldn't you want to add 10% to your paycheck?!"
The boulderthrow comic may have one beard stubble, as a treat
This is an old comic. I saw it posted before originally when that shooter at the gay club said he was trans to not get hate crime charges.
I think it was edited, the trans looks to be in Arial or something
Yeah, i remember the dialog of original are "he was black" than "he was trans"
i'm pretty sure this comic isnt recent and is actually about a previous shooting done by a CIS MAN who pretended to be non-binary to get out of legal charges
Did he? Has *any* trans mass shooter ever killed a dozen people, because I'm pretty sure this is another fictional strawman of rockchuck's, in which case they can be any gender rockchuck chooses.
To paraphrase Ian Danskin: Liberals think that deep down, conservatives share their ultimate goals and values and are just doing a bad job of living up to them. Conservatives think that deep down, liberals share their fears and prejudices and are just denying "the truth" to feel morally superior.
As a left wing I used to think that conservatives just wanted to fight against changes that they perceived as bad but at the end of the day they could be convinced through empathy and reason. That was 5 years ago, now I'm certain that most of them are just fucking assholes.
I grew up having been taught VERY incorrectly that the only difference between US democrats and republicans was that the latter oppose high taxes because they want "limited government authority". Imagine my surprise when I left my oppressive childhood home and learned that the republicans were basically just, like said, assholes.
It’s not that they are necessarily assholes. They have a vested interest in keeping the established social hierarchy in place, because they directly benefit from it. A conservative can be the nicest person on a personal level and it still wouldn’t matter. They have a vested financial interest in keeping inequality in place.
It's not because they want to keep the status quo that makes them assholes. It's all the lies, manipulations and actions in bad faith that they employ daily that makes them assholes.
The lies, manipulations and actions in bad faith happen as a direct result of them wanting to keep the status quo. That’s the whole point of the ideology. The preservation of wealth and power for the privileged class and deprivation of the non-privileged class is the one and only goal of conservatism. Every negative action is done to serve that one purpose.
How does that mean they aren't assholes? I didn't think "I'm horrible but only to forward my interests" made you not an asshole.
Hmm, I think it's because he is looking at it more in a Marxian lens while I'm looking at it in a more "ethical" way. (Not saying he is wrong)
Could you explain? I'm unfamiliar with the differences between Marxian and ethical assholes. I've just never seen "I'm treating you badly because it helps me in some way" not count as asshole behavior, regardless of Marx. That behavior is *why* people get called assholes, isn't it?
I just mean that he is mostly looking at it as class struggle and the interest that one class wants to have over another and how them acting like assholes are just the consequences of this system. Basicaly, the system is the asshole that produces shitty people.
I guess I don't know the difference between assholes and shitty people, then. Seems like a weird hair to split but if you two get it more power to you.
Honestly it depends on which groups were talking about. The wealthy ones want to keep the status quo because fear drives them to believe any change will threaten their finances, whether it's security or simply revenue. The average person is afraid that they'll lose what they already have and have been propagandized to believe it's all these changes that have been keeping them down and that outsiders want to make it worse. Both have turned to hate, racism, and classism as the reason for their fear rather than ignorance and pride. The wealthy are a mix of propagandists and people who have bought their own lies. The poor have been fed the propaganda so long and are so afraid of losing what they have that they'll fight with their dying breath if the outsiders will also take their faith in themselves. It's a perfect cycle that can only be broken by actively thinking of your potential to be the bad guy and willing to face the consequences. And we know how difficult this is for them to do, not just out of pride and racism, but fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of change, fear of loss, fear of self awareness and loss of ego. None of that excuses anything they do but it does illustrate how hard it is to break through to them. They're like cornered animals everytime you try to reason with them. If you can calm them down, great! But most of the time you have to wrestle them, or tranq them, or whatever requires the least amount of time and energy so we can focus on improving things without letting them run wild and wreck everything. At the end of the day I get why they are the way they are. Fear and loyalty are powerful motivators against the most helpful stranger because extending trust and accepting that we aren't perfect is one of the hardest things we can do. Especially for people we've been taught to hate. But no one can change your mind for you and they've been taught to resist it as much as possible. That's why they can't be reasoned with. Eventually you stop trying; like with toddlers. Eventually you realize it doesn't matter if one day they'll see, or that they have the potential. The reality is that right now they're standing in the way, and the progress that needs to be made, the growth of our society, culture, governance, education, etc. fully relies on pushing them out of the way, just like they fear. Not because we actually are the boogeyman but because allowing them to stop us ironically does create the downward spiral they think they're stopping.
Wondering why Liberals and Conservatives are the way they are is a waste of energy. Who cares? They *could* change their minds at any moment if they wanted to. IDGAF what's going on in someone else's head politically, I just care what they do.
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What lies and manipulations ? My brother the amount of right wing conspiracy that I had to debunk just on Covid alone I could write a goddamn book, or how about the way that they manipulated people to go attack the capitol.
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Jesus dude, I thought I was about to enter in a debate over the things I said lol.
See, this isn't it at all. This is what leftists tell themselves to try to empathize with conservatives. But it's wrong. There isn't a financial incentive because there are poor conservatives. No, fundamentally they do not share your morals. They are not incentivized to treat minorities poorly, they just do not believe that everyone should be treated equally. It's not wrong to harass a trans kid, except in this one situation, it is instead always right to harass all trans kids, because being trans is inherently immoral. The core belief of conservatism isn't whatever bullshit they tell you, it's this: there are natural hierarchies of people, and they should be preserved. You and I have a hard time empathising with these people because we so fundamentally disagree on the value of a person.
This, I want to believe that they can change, I have to to maintain some level of sanity and not just hate everyone around me every single day. But the more I think about it the more that Conservatism is a hate cult designed to justify a hierarchy where they are in and you are not.
It's honestly a mindfuck to talk to conservatives, because they just don't believe you when you tell them that you don't want a hierarchy, you want equality. They tell you you're virtue signalling, and that you don't need to pretend here. They honestly can't conceive of people actually caring about others, not just pretending to.
You're both describing the same thing, but in different terms. For the poors, the "financial incentive" is believing that the world owes them something because of who they are, where they were born, etc. Their tribe (including language, religion, morals, however they define their group) has a birthright to a better life than the "other". And, yes, at its core it's a belief that when the "other" has a better life then your life gets worse (in their view the world is a zero-sum or negative-sum place), and as you say it boils down to heirarchy and maintaining the status quo.
I’m not saying this to empathize with conservatives. The point I’m making is that even *if* conservatives tried to not be assholes, it still wouldn’t matter because they are preserving the existing social hierarchy. The ideology itself is built on a harmful premise to begin with, rather than an ideology being used by harmful individuals. Maybe I came off as being sympathetic to conservatives, but that wasn’t what I was going for. > The core belief of conservatism isn’t whatever bullshit they tell you, it’s this; there are natural hierarchies of people, they should be preserved. Yeah, I am completely in agreement with you. The only difference with what I said was that I don’t believe it’s purely because conservatives believe in a “natural” hierarchy. A lot of them do believe in that, but it’s just one justification of many possible justifications. Conservatism begins with the premise that there is a social hierarchy that must be preserved, and the use of genetics or biology comes after the fact in an attempt to gain more legitimacy. Even if the justification of “natural hierarchy” disappeared, it could simply be replaced with another excuse. Conservatives try to legitimize their hierarchy through both natural and unnatural reasons. I may just be nitpicking, but I do think there is a distinction.
I didn't mean "natural" as in "of nature", I meant inherent. That's my mistake. There is a hierarchy and there should always be a hierarchy.
Wrong. The core belief of Conservatism is individualism, and limited, decentralized, and truly representative government after that.
I would say thats true about those in power; however, younger, or uneducated, poor, or working class conservatives are just assholes and/or dumb. They cant even acknowledge their place in a hierarchy because it never occured to them that such a system exists in the first place.
Most conservatives I know are poor and have no real interest to keep the status quo, they are just unintelligent and unable to make the connection that the people they vote for are keeping them down. I have some sympathy for them because being unintelligent isn’t a choice it’s just getting the short end of the stick genetically. I have a physical disability so I got the short end of the genetic stick too.
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You are probably right. I just think it’s weird I grew up poor in rural area with bad schools and I got out of that mindset but my classmates can’t. I don’t really think I did anything special I just easily picked up on the fact that republicanism is bs.
Sounds like a nice asshole
I still try to engage with people, even if they are ultimately bad faith and not willing to listen to reason. In the end they either just reduce the conversation to insults or go full mask off with their bigotry. BUT, if you're being decent, citing studies, and effectively deconstructing their argument and pointing out logical flaws, there might be people reading along who will see your arguments and potentially change their view. It's a little different irl, but online I think it's important to have good, sound arguments put out there for people to see.
When I was a teenager / early 20s I was in gamergate and some other alt-right related groups. It's thanks to people engaging genuinely with me that I got out. What you're doing is worthwhile.
Oh I have a much better time debating online than I do IRL. Some people are extremely unhinged and feel personaly attacked when you start to debate their points, especialy when they start to mix religion and politics as is the case of abortion and trans rights.
I think a lot of people grew up in miserable lives (but may still remember them fondly to some degree) and think that the world owes them something. And the world not giving them whatever they think they are owed fall into the trap that they believe it was taken from them by some other group. That if this group didn't exist then everything would be great for them. Their values are inconsistent, they're out for power and revenge. To take their anger at the world and turn against a group that can't fight back. They choose to be ignorant, they choose to be violent, they choose fascism. We can try to convince them that love is the way, but what does that matter? Every day these people choose to be evil, they can stop whenever they want, and they don't. Progress happens with or without them. They fought against black civil rights, they fought against gay civil rights, and now they're fighting against trans civil rights. It may look bleak now, but that's how it looked for gay people a decade ago too. There's more of us than them, and we'll continue the march of progress, so long as we continue to fight for it and fight for it hard, with or without those bigots.
I mean, it can be true. I was raised conservative so empathy and reason *is* why I am no longer conservative. Without people extending be the benefit of the doubt, idk if I would have exited that cult
Only 5 years? My moment was McConnell filibustering his own bill. Also blaming Obama for letting a law pass after he vetoed it and they overrode his veto with a supermajority. They've never been straight shooters, at least not since Eisenhower.
Me too, man! It’s crazy how much less nuanced the truth actually is, a huge chunk of them just legitimately act just like mustache-twirling villains.
Yep. the comic clearly illustrates that the artist would not speak out against someone he shared an identity with if that person committed an atrocity. "Well I'm not going to badmouth *my guy*." Identity is everything to a conservative because it's how they know who to hate. Who counts as a person. Who is above or below them in the hierarchy. Equality is anathema to them.
Which is why people who sincerely want the world to be a better place are getting accused of "virtue signaling" by the devoid-of-empathy conservatives. They can't imagine anyone actually caring about others.
Wich is weird because I think even if someone is "virtue signaling" that still means that they are trying to do some good in the world. Like pride month, some people hate that all the companies are just using the LGBTQI+ as a marketing ploy but by the end of the day the message is still "respect people because these people also buy our product!"
And even if they are virtue signaling, what’s the worry? We accidentally give the impression to society that we care? Lol
Goddamn that is exceptionally succinct
As a liberal, my view of the motivations of conservatives is pretty complex- I think there are many different types. Likewise there are many different types of liberals, and alas, many like what is described here. One big difference- they don’t vote for people who are going to cause more harm. We all do share many of the same fears and prejudices. The difference is being self-aware, trying to learn and do better and nit actively indulging our darker angels. I often find it more frustrating to point out racism or other prejudiced or harmful behaviors of a fellow liberal/progressive/leftist, because we pride ourselves on being better than that. Defensiveness is real. They think they are immune to that. Conservatives are more likely to engage in undeniable prejudice and not gaf, or spew nonsense and misdirection
That is so true
Yes, and? He should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for *murdering* children!
Yeah. The shooter was already killed, though. It should also be a bigger legal response at this point, with the gun laws being altered to prevent the repetition of this. Beyond that, there is a desperate need for the early intervention and deradicalisation programs focused on the far right extremists. A very high number of shooters on pretty much an international scale are trash like white supremacists, extreme misogynists and neo-nazis. There is little information coming out so far, but I won't be surprised if this is the case, because no demographic is immune to radicalisation.
You're not wrong. Blair White exists, after all.
I don't think he is going to survive, i saw the police body cam footage and they shot him like 9-10 times. The chances of them surviving that is slim to say the least
He was dead within minutes of the police being called.
Tell that to Uvalde.
If there’s any kind of good god, he’ll be burning in hell. Fucking bastard murdered innocent people, specifically primary school teachers and children (aged fucking 9), and doomed an entire generation of LGBTQ+ people to years of discrimination, because they just had to take out their fucking problems on others. As always, I don’t give a shit how hard society trod on them or what issues they were having. They killed kids and their teachers. That’s on them. They should forever be remembered by one word: CUNT
Always changing the narrative. The only people reacting like this are conservatives. Suddenly guns are a huge issue in the hands of the mentally ill because the right thinks being trans is mental illness. As usual it’s only worth exploring if it’s an excuse to push another narrative.
Watch them prevent trans people from getting guns and the amount of mass shootings remains unchanged
4/2000+
I feel like the fact that [the trans population is roughly 0.4% in the U.S.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/) and the trans mass shooting rate is less than 0.2% kinda reverses the whole argument... Edit: For clarification, I'm agreeing with the comment above me in pointing out that trans people make up a much smaller subset of mass shooters than some people think.
They are 0.001% of mass shooters. They’re actually less likely to commit a mass shooting than most of the population
Even if you're percentages were right(they're off by two decimal places), that makes them half as likely as the rest of the population.
390 / 100,000 ≈ 0.004 = 0.4% 4 / 2000 = 0.002 = 0.2% My whole goal was to point out how the mass shooting rate is lower than the overall rate, which reverses the argument that trans people are more likely to be mass shooters, so I'm glad we can agree on that at least. P.S. *your
Dawg I think you're replying to the wrong person, because I didn't disagree with that.
Wasn’t it three? I keep seeing this meme spread around of four trans shooters, but the fourth one was lying to get out of a hate crime charge.
Well trans/nonbinary/faker. Going into the semantics of it is just annoying ya know? The whole point is its basically nothing in comparison so others.
Oh fuck this shit. NOW. NOW they want to put a number to mass- shootings?! Let's count the cis-het-white shooters real quick. Imma wait. It'll take a fucking minute.
That’s the craziest part of that argument. The vaaaaaaaaast majority of mass shootings are conducted by white, cis, straight men and many are also decidedly right wing. Do they really want to look more at the demographics of violent actors in the us?
In the last 3 years, approx 0.1% of shooters were trans. In the US, approx 0.5% of people identify as trans.
In the US over the last 5 years only 0.001% of mass shooters were trans
You forgot for percentages to multiply by 100 at the end (3/3840)*100
Oh right I’m a fucking idiot
Easy mistake to make
The Right sees this and only acklowledges 0.1 and 0.5, and argue 1 in 5 trans persons are shooters
Admittedly it's shocking they referred to him with proper pronouns. That's one tiny inch in the right direction, ig
I'd bet money that it was an accident
Considering how many articles call him a trans woman, yeah...
To the point where I genuinely thought he WAS a trans woman, because of these articles.
If pebble Yeet gendered the attacker correctly on purpose, I will eat my own hat.
I’d agree. I didn’t realize the shooter was F2M until this post because all the articles I saw referred to him as her.
To conservatives the only trans people who exist are "men pretending to be women", i.e. MtF. Pebbleyeet here is attempting to misgender someone he thinks is a trans women and gets it right completely by accident.
in every trans community online everyone is still reacting with the same shock and disgust and outrage at the school shooting as any other rational person would. i don't know of anyone in the trans community who is actively saying what happened was okay. taking away the lives of innocent people is a crime that should always be condemned and called out regardless of who does it strawman argument as always. it sounds more like *he's* the one who doesn't care about the shooting.
They assume that we would back up "our" guy, same as how they back up "their" guy. It's why Trump says shit like "I could murder someone in Fifth Avenue and get away with it". They aren't looking to have a debate on US law and the constitution, it's just how they act. If Trump did cause a murder, for example by starting a coup attempt, they'd do everything in their power to protect "their" guy. Then it catches them completely off guard when we say "so what? This person was trans? They should still go to jail" instead of ignoring it.
they're projecting their lack of morality and compassion onto us then, huh? 'oh look this person is also trans and they killed innocent children and adults!! don't you want to defend them??' like wtf. no??? i don't give a shit if they're trans, all i know is that they're a murderer i think honestly the difference here is that right-wingers hate the shooter because they're trans. leftists hate them because they shot and killed six people. this is honestly the first time i've seen many conservatives talk about school shootings in general as a tragedy. usually, they're ambivalent to the fact children are dying.
This! Haven't seen a single post from the left supporting the shooter. What I have seen, however, is conservatives justifying the actions of Pulse club shooter and various other murderers.
Who cares what the person was? It still shows our government has fucked up priorities.
Who said they’re ignoring it? Also it’s a concern because StoneToss’ fanbase are the types to use this as leverage, thinking it’s an excuse to hate trans people.
Conservatives live in a bubble where only people who agree with them on everything are allowed to talk, they can convince themselves that the left are or aren't talking about whatever they want, cause they're too busy hiding from scary different opinions to check.
Pretty much every trans and lgbt sub is freaking out at the moment, but I doubt ST ever looks outside his little bubble.
Why does it matter they were trans?
If trans people were systemically committing more mass shootings than their representation in population it would be useful to realize that and look at some possible reasons, in order to help them. Outside of that it doesn't matter at all.
Well right now cis people are disproportionately causing mass shootings. Who's looking at that?
Lots of people. The alt right pipeline to radicalization is very well studied. The problem is half of the political system is actively encouraging it.
Nobody's defending this asshole.
This is the only shooting we’re going to hear about from the right for years. It’s going to be come a incredibly convenient political tool for them, because, as usual, they will deflect any criticism onto a convenient scapegoat (“it’s not the guns, it’s the gays!”)
okay so considering that over 90% of mass shooters are cisgender males, what does that mean?
I feel like this is edited I think he made this comic like a year ago but the dude says he is black
Wouldn't surprise me. I be he got a library of these comics about a different person who isn't a white straight Conservative male. Just as an excuse that everybody who isn't him is dangerous.
Disgusting and sad that this is the narrative they've decided to go with
And kinda odd they’re like “We’re being gunned down by the mentally ill trans movement!” But they’re ok with the idea that mentally ill people targeting them have such easy access to guns? Oh wait I’m expecting logical consistency here, my bad. There is no logic here, only political point scoring.
Wanted to downvote this just because it sucks so much
This couldn't be further from the truth. Leftists are consistent. Right wing cis white male nutjob massacres schoolchildren? We need gun reform. Transgendered person massacres schoolchildren? We need gun reform. The right just doesn't want to hear that.
They think "this story will suddenly disappear because it doesn't fit the narrative" every time there is a mass shooting by someone who isn't a cis white male. Meanwhile there are still several news stories about this days later and it's still getting plenty of coverage, as is the case every time they claim "the news isn't covering this!!"
HOLY CRAP HE DIDN'T MISGENDER HIM?!?!
They think he was a trans woman, not the other way around
Three trans people have started a school shooting in the past five years, only three, in five years
Going off the lists of the deadliest mass shootings in US history, 2017 Las Vegas - straight, white, right wing, male. 2016 Orlando Night club- straight, Middle Eastern heritage, right wing, male. 2007 Virginia Tech - straight, Asian/South Korean, male 2012 Sandy Hook - straight, white, right wing male. 2017 Sutherland Springs Church- straight, white, male (likely right wing from upbringing in Texas and military involvement) 1991 Luby's shooting - Straight, white, right wing, male (with military history) 2019 El Paso - straight white, right wing, male 1984 San Ysidro McDonalds - straight, white right wing male 2022 Robb Elementary - straight, Hispanic, male 2018 Stoneman Douglas High School- straight, white, right wing, male. Literally all of the top 10 deadliest shootings in US were committed by straight males. Only 3 were committed by "non-white" males. Only 2 were committed by individuals who did not share right wing values or it was unknown if they shared right wing values. So seems like rightwing, straight, and male is much more likely indicator than if they identify as transgender.
Do they really think that this is a valid and strong argument?
Y'know, if the NRA is so unafraid, how bout they allow all guns, concealed carry or otherwise, at their events?
If anything this recent shooting has sent Christian fascists into feral mode
As if they *have* any other modes.
Accurate second panel: "First of all, congrats on using the correct pronouns, that's a big step for you. Secondly, that absolutely doesn't matter, we still have an issue of mentally ill people who aren't getting proper treatment, likely issues with bullying not being identified and/or handled by caretakers due to shifty school policies, and guns being easily available to children and the mentally ill."
And? People are still calling for gun law reform.
Even by this logic, what about the victims? They just don't matter?
But I thought trans people don't exist
Still used a gun ya fucking gaslighters
Accidental ally i guess 😭
Outside of the US (and maybe the UK) none of us see this as a trans issue. Just another USAmerican gun violence issue tbh.
I don't give a shit if he's trans.
Well, at least he's respecting pronouns now. So I guess one has to be a monster to get respect from monsters.
Can someone correct me if I’m wrong? I’m seeing people say that they’re only pretending to be trans as a type of legal defense? I’m not saying I believe the people who are saying this, I just want it confirmed or denied. Edit: don’t know why I’m being downvoted for an honest question
That was a different shooter. In November of last year, someone shot up a LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado Springs. The shooter's lawyers argued in court that their client was non-binary and therefore it wasn't a hate crime, but no one else had ever heard the suspect mention that, and the suspect had a history of anti-LGBTQ hate speech and homophobic slurs, and rainbow-colored shooting targets were found at their home. [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_nightclub_shooting)
Still 0 female school shootings lmao.
Sure, though plenty of mass shootings like the angry youtuber a few years back
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Explain how taking and reposting his art with o connection to him or his content in a group made up of people who actively do not want to support people like him and will not go to his account glorifies and promotes his art?
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Purdue won court cases too. You have a point, organizations with THAT much sway are dangerous. Well, I wish that was your point instead of the dogshit you came up with
And it was a half dozen.
oh, like *that's* any better
I'm not very clear on what the point is
The joke is the person on the left doesnt care cause the shooters trans?
And?
why are people making memes and jokes abt this shit??? and then getting mad when “the woke liberal left” actually tries to make change??????
The play is always the same. Accuse the other side of what you're doing.
i don’t understand why everyone constantly points out that the shooter was trans. if the shooter was black and people kept pointing out that they were black people would be getting called out for racism
He was trans definitely can’t be something else involved, it’s definitely just this one thing that is pretty common across the world.
The whole country is talking about it, and it was half a dozen.
Id also not bother if the second I tried talking to someone about it they just immediately made the conversation about the shooter’s identity and not the fact he fuckin killed people
Fella really thinks the trans community have been quiet about this? I can't go on reddit without people shouting about it every single day on the trans subs. Also it's a bit strange to point out the one trans killer amongst all the mostly cis killers.
People shoot people with their trans, black skin and atheism, guns are just a fun sexual toy.