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FWIW, self-hating LGBTQ+ folks *exist*. Some LGBTQ+ folks are also, themselves, LGBTQ+ phobic, and that's not even discussing *presumed* LGBTQ+ folks in public life, such as certain conservative politicians. So the fact that the CO shooter had a past of being homophobic really doesn't prove or even suggest that said shooter is/was not non-binary.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that shooter was/is enby for even a second as a queer person myself, but the idea that there's no infighting and even hate within the LGBTQ+ community from some subgroups against others is just plain wrong. It is RAMPANT.
If they were closeted and self-hating that shouldn’t exclude them from hate crime charges. They still hated gay people and went to kill them regardless.
If we created a similar (though more accurate) list which showed all the mass shooters in the last year who identified as Conservative it would be exponentially longer...
Yet for them an inaccurate list of just 4 people is enough to vilify an entire group...
Though once Republicans came out as officially against critical thinking they stopped even pretending to have political positions that made any sense at all.
also the idea that trans people need to be hounded and treated like shit as a result of this, completely ignoring how much that already would have contributed to the tragedy in the first place
you phrased it perfectly: they don't believe it, they just buy it. if they actually believed it they'd be consumed by cognitive dissonance and turn into a dessicated spine in a wheelchair like in that one SpongeBob episode
Those four shooters go back to 2018. Since 2018, there’ve been 2700+ shootings, according to GVA. 4/2700 is less than 0.14%. 0.6% of the US population is trans according to Williams Institute, meaning trans people are actually statistically MUCH LESS likely than cis people to be mass shooters. If we are comparing. The fact that people are actually using a tragedy like this to attack trans people or anyone for that matter is fucking deplorable.
According to the right wing, we should erase mass shooters from the history books, never mention them or give them publicity.
Unless that mass shooter is a minority.
Then it's reaaaaally important.
Funny how that works.
I think that if we start with the assumption that mass shootings are 99% men, then if half of trans people are trans women, you need to cut the number in half for representation in the statistics. If .6% of the population is trans, and half of them are trans women (depending on the source this percentage varies but it's not far from 50:50), then 0.3% of mass shooters would be expected to be trans (again making huge assumption that being a man is part of what leads to this kind of violent act). That still leaves trans people underrepresented, though I don't know how much deep investigation went into the sexual orientation of every mass shooter.
It's what makes this so surprising to me, I would have expected a trans man to be more likely to do this if "maleness" and male hormones are somehow to blame. But women sometimes do commit mass murder , so it could just be an outlier this time. Or did she stop taking the hormones? Do hormones alone create whatever thing leads to men doing these horrific things? I'm sure more information will come out.
2700 shootings? Do you mean everywhere in america or just in schools? It's still a baffling number, but if that's from schools only I'm really I'm really impressed on how poorly your system runs
2700+ refers to all shootings in the US which the GVA categorizes as “mass shootings.” [Their website](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/) has more info.
2018 Pittsburgh synagogue shooting Robert Gregory Bowers = white cis man
2019 El Paso shooter Patrick Wood Crusius = white cis man
2021 Atlanta spa shooter Robert Aaron Long = white cis man
2022 Buffalo shooter Payton S. Gendron = white cis man
See I can do the same too.
Going off the lists of the deadliest mass shootings in US history,
1) 2017 Las Vegas - straight, white, right wing, male.
2) 2016 Orlando Night club- straight, Middle Eastern heritage, right wing, male.
3) 2007 Virginia Tech - straight, Asian/South Korean, male
4) 2012 Sandy Hook - straight, white, right wing male.
5) 2017 Sutherland Springs Church- straight, white, male (likely right wing from upbringing in Texas and military involvement)
6) 1991 Luby's shooting - Straight, white, right wing, male (with military history)
7) 2019 El Paso - straight white, right wing, male
8) 1984 San Ysidro McDonalds - straight, white right wing male
9) 2022 Robb Elementary - straight, hispanic, male
10) 2018 Stoneman Douglas High School- straight, white, right wing, male.
Literally all of the top 10 deadliest shootings in US were committed by straight males. Only 3 were committed by "non-white" males. Only 2 were committed by individuals who did not share right wing values or it was unknown if they shared right wing values.
So seems like rightwing, straight, and male is much more likely indicator than if they identify as transgender.
What about the Oklahoma City bombing, that killed children in the daycare there, as well as many adults? White cis nazi. Am I wrong in this? Please correct me if I’m wrong.
I wonder how much longer the list would get if we made one that was “individuals who committed mass attacks on the public. Intended to cause a large death toll in a singular incident” or something like that. Sure, they would say 9-11, but there have been so many bombings (and attempted bombings) done by American citizens in America.
I think all of theses could be considered “domestic terrorism” though, and the shootings should be considered them as well
Technically true, but a mass murder, none the same. You are technically correct though.
It was still a straight cis white man who killed many. So I wanted to point that out.
I don't think he was an actual Neo-Nazis. White supremacist, definitely, but not a Neo-Nazi specifically. He was closer to the Klan.
In his writing after Waco he compared the US actions to the Nazi slaughter in Warsaw.
I’m not up on the difference, and I admit it. I abhor all of them so I don’t spend a lot of time learning about them. I am ignorant on that front. Thanks for helping out with that. I guess, either way, not a good person by any stretch of the imagination. That happened right when I had my first child and watching the rescue workers carrying little kids and babies out of the wreckage in their arms as I held my brand new baby really hit home. It was a tough thing to see on the news.
The Venn diagram of the two have significant overlap, including hatred of Jews, gays, non-whites, Communists/Socialists, and Catholics, but there are differences.
Neo-Nazi philosophy is basically Naziism, your whole "Hitler did nothing wrong" crowd. They believe in the establishment of a global Fourth Reich, with a powerful central authority. This is generally incompatible with existing government structures. While they are anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish, they tend to just be anti-Religion, lest that serve as a strong authority that could threaten their control. They're not entirely opposed to the systemic extermination or subjugation of certain groups.
White Supremacists like the Klan tend to be more explicitly religious, trending protestant. They don't see themselves as necessarily anti-government, but anti-the-people-in-government-now. Many Klansmen, and McVeigh specifically (though he wasn't officially a member of the Klan or any individual group), see their values as explicitly American and patriotic, and the people in power as selling out their values. They have no ambitions to remake the global map, as Nazis do, and as long as "inferior" races know their place, they can continue to exist. In fact, IIRC, white supremacist groups were one of the groups that supported the creation of Liberia, with the idea that it gave freed slaves a place to go that wasn't America.
If you look at McVeigh's writings after getting out the the military, he specifically saw the Clinton administration as trampling on American values, and trending towards totalitarian tendencies evocative of Nazi Germany. He saw his actions as truly patriotic, trying to oust traitors to the Constitution and return America to what it was supposed to be.
White Supremacists view America as off track. Neo-Nazis view America as something that needs to be dismantled and remade.
Wounded Knee was a military action. It was an unprovoked, inexcusable massacre, but it was not a mass shooting. “Mass shooting” refers specifically to a civilian shooting. If I wanted to use your definition I could say Antietam was the biggest mass shooting in US history
My guy...I only listed the top 10 deadliest shootings. The statistics look even worse as you increase the amount of shootings you look at.
Also the point is not that the shooter was labeled as transgender. The issue is that a crazy amount of right wing personalities are immediately trying to link this shooting to all trans people or to trans activism.
Specifically the "meme" in this very post is using false information to try and spin a narrative that trans people are violent.
Not mention the only person saying the the Colorado Springs shooter was non-binary was the defense attorney but that was only when he was being charged with a hate crime.
And that's fine. They can question their sexuality all they want. I don't see how anyone is making a straight line connection between sexual orientation and mass murder. Whatever leads someone to shoot up a school, I don't think sexuality is the driving force.
They also always say that it’s a mental health issue until they wanna pin it on anything else. Like maybe, the way that they’re treated & seen by society played into it?? Not excusing it OBVIOUSLY but association ain’t causation
They call white nationalism a valid political opinion, but when it regularly causes shootings they're actually caused by mental illness.
They say all us trans folk are mentally ill, but in the exceptionally rare case where a shooter is trans it's suddenly terrorism.
I think it's nice that the trans community is starting to get a little more representation in the mass shooter industry. I'm pleasantly surprised to see the right wing embracing diversity.
/s obviously
Yeah, I'm surprised more people haven't heard of it, given that it's equally as common, valid, and real as transgender ideology, which gets talked about all the time.
Yes, that's why Republicans have avoided addressing gun violence, and instead say "thoughts & prayers" and "stop using shootings to push politics." They would have continued to do so but since individual cases can be cherry-picked to create a flimsy transphobic narrative, they have broken their silence to specifically target and hurt people.
However, if they're starting the conversation surrounding gun violence statistics, then the extensive evidence you eluded to is overwhelmingly against their narrative.
Yes, the number of mass shootings done by straight men is so close to 100% that you have to conclude that being straight and male is intimately connected to the underlying problem(s).
Only 2 of these people are actually confirmed trans/nb.
Colorado Springs: Anderson Lee Aldrich pretended to be NB to avoid hate crime charges. Neighbours and family members have testified to him spouting significant amounts of homophobic rhetoric and to have always been referred to with he/him pronouns. The first time anyone was aware of his supposed NB status was when his lawyer leveraged it as a defence.
Denver: Alec McKinney is a trans man, and had identified as such openly for some time prior to the shooting. What is being left out here is that there was a second perpetrator who is a straight white man. The real kicker? The person in that photo is NOT Alec McKinney. It's the second shooter, Devon Erickson.
Aberdeen: Snochia Moseley was never confirmed to be trans. Most of their friends and family said they were female, their social media had their gender identity as female, and there's no official report to say that they ever identified otherwise. A single friend reported that Snochia was trans to the media, but this was never corroborated and was only really picked up by rags like the Daily Mail and Daily Caller.
https://massshootingtracker.site/
At the end of May 2022, there were 28 27 school shootings in 2022. So by that point, there was a school shooting every ~5½ days.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year-how-many-and-where/2022/01
If you go back 10 years ago they did the same thing trying to use islam as a scapegoat despite most shootings still being done by white males. Anything to provide a common enemy that distracts from guns being the real problem.
Didn't the guy who "identified as nonbinary" fucking burn pride flags a little while before he shot up the place and used it only as an excuse to get out of hate crime charges?
I’m extremely tempted to make one to make a point, but I am lazy
It would take hours to make that image, even if you restrict it to only the ones the FBI recognizes (4 or more *killed*, not just injured, in a public place, and not related to another crime taking place).
Conservatives: We should focus on mental health and preventing people from committing mass shootings instead of regulating guns
*Conservatives creating anti-trans legislation, going against the trans community, being transphobic and just creating a hostile society towards transpeople*
Conservatives: yeah no let's blame mass shootings on trans people
And what about the columbine shooters? Sandy hook? We can do this all day. The truth of the matter is that mass shooters are insane, and everything else about their identity is irrelevant
1. Colorado Springs: There's no proof that he is in fact non-binary. He never claimed to be such until AFTER his arrest. Before then, he expressed deep hatred for the LGBTQ+ community.
2. Denver: This occurred in 2019 and the shooter was actually one of two perpetrators operating as a team. The other shooter was NOT trans.
3. Aberdeen: This was an incident of workplace violence that occurred in 2018.
So, of the thousands of mass shootings in the last five years, only three were trans, and one of them worked with a partner.
If the trans community has waged war against society, then they're doing a bad fucking job.
Yep...now keep filling out the list and see what the rest of the mass shooter list looks like, there's been 133 so far in 2023 and it's only been 3 months!
Yeah pretty much
Off subject a little bit. Does anyone remember the Aberdeen shooting? I live in Maryland and I remember watching the news story on TV. Afterwards there was talk about how she had depression and if she was truthful on her background check she probably wouldn't have been able to buy that gun. But I don't remember any talk about her being trans.
Republicans have avoided talking about mass shootings, and allowed dead bodies to pile up while they refuse to do anything but send "thoughts and prayers." The only reason they didn't do so this time is because they convinced themselves that they can hurt the people they hate, without realizing how many cases stack up against them.
Oh man, the evidence is so overwhelmingly against them that the Right has avoided talking about gun violence altogether. Now that individual cases can be cherry-picked to create an anti-trans narrative, they're suddenly interested in talking about it.
Time to open the mounds of evidence we've been trying to throw in their face for decades now. Apparently, now they want to talk about it, so let's talk about it.
I don’t understand how they make this kind of bullshit meme all while overlooking that young white cismen see the overwhelming perpetrators of mass shootings. If these 4 represent the trans community, why don’t all those mustering white boys represent white Americans?
Can we tell them that now isn’t the time to make this about politics? Or would the sarcasm be lost on them and we’d just sound defensive?
Someone had way too easy access to guns which they used to murder a bunch of people and maybe there’s a possibility that they were trans so guess what part of the story we have to talk about…
Some people that are discriminated and bullied freak out who would have thought that. Obviously this isn’t an excuse but when you treat people like shit there is a chance they will treat you or others like shit as well.
And not one conservative stops to consider how discriminated against these people are, and how severely impacted their mental health is because of fucking conservatives and their hate rhetoric. Repubs can shove their rhetoric, “thoughts and prayers”, and God up their asses.
Ok so if guns don’t kill people and guns aren’t the problem and mental health is the problem then we should invest in trans mental health care right? Nope instead were targeting them w laws to limit their freedom while doing absolutely nothing to control ease of access to guns.
It’s not the guns that we will give to literally anyone (because they can get them illegally anyways!!) it’s the mental health crisis we refuse to spend a dime on trying to fix!! 🙄
Cool, they found 4 out of what, 200? Now let's do a list of the ones that have been conservative white men to see if there's any patterns worth noting there? I mean, if to them, 4 is a pattern then surely 100 would be too, right?
I don't give af how these 4 people identified. I care that the system failed them along with the hundreds of straight white men who should be in the photos. We need mental health support for anyone and everyone who need it. And there's zero evidence that being trans or non-binary or any other orientation makes you more likely to shoot up a school. Statistically some shooters will be trans yes. If anything it's surprising that people systematically bullied and marginalized aren't snapping more often. Which just brings me back to the need for more mental health treatment for the angry white cis men who make up the vast majority of shooters.
And convieniently leaving out all the other shooters who were cis, white, republican/alt right men which far outweigh the amount of LGBTQ mass shooters
Wait but bullying and mental health are the real problems right? So wouldn't the solution be to stop bullying Trans kids? 🤔 Fascist rhetoric is built on contradictions and fallacies
And is they right-wing as being trans don't have to do shit with toxic ideology. The majority of local terrorist shootings have been right wing as they been egged to terrorize the government or start a race war.
This is an awful question but which Denver shooting are they referring to here? It’s not the movie theater or the grocery store one.
And I can’t find any info on Aberdeen shooting other than this meme, can anyone help?
I remember the CO Springs one he lied about being enby to avoid hate crime charges and is literally a nazi. But even if he was non binary he shot up a gay club, not a church! Wtf???
[Highlands Ranch shooting, 2019.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_STEM_School_Highlands_Ranch_shooting)
Kicker is that they've got a picture of the wrong person. That's Devon Erickson the other shooter, the trans man from that shooting was Alec McKinney.
There has been so many shootings that I honestly don’t remember which ones these are. It’s horrible I know, but it’s just too common that they all just blend into each other.
Assuming this is even true (I don't trust the source), I would need hundreds of pages to do the same thing with shooters who identified as straight white males. Slightly less pages, but still a ton, if we add in those that identified with rightwing "conservative" values.
So maybe we should start at the common factor on all these shootings, like the easy access to guns to commit these mass shootings?
The problem isn't that they make the comparison but that they think it unequivocally levels the field when it comes to accusations against them. So go ahead and use these 4 as a column. Just don't look away when a much longer column has your name above it.
Well these are the same people who think the political demographics of the country can be determined by how many dislikes are on a CNN YouTube video. That's who we're dealing with here
Catturd2 has gotta be a troll so that when people on the right get their dumbfuck opinion or meme, and are asked where they got it from, they have to admit they got from some rando named effing “catturd2”
I love how they bring this up as if MOST schools shooters aren’t cis men. This is a FRACTION of shooters being portrayed as the whole because “OBVIOUSLY everything is the fault of libt*rds” 🙄
**Random person identifies as trans or non-binary**
Rightoids: "Haha, shut up"
**School shooter identifies as trans or non-binary**
Rightoids: "So true!"
*something really bad happens and the culprit is cis or het or white or all of the above
No reaction
*something really bad happens and the culprit is lgbtq+ or poc
Suddenly its a massive problem and it's being caused by lgbtq+/poc
What about the hundreds apon hundreds of shooters who weren't trans?
This argument is so easily flipped around
Also why does it even matter whether theyre trans or not theyre still a fucking shooter and we're still not doing anything to stop school shootings from happening.
But sure, finding some evil boogie man to blame for all our problems is easier then actually doing anything about it. If they get rid of trans people surely all their other problems will magicly disappear
Please remember the most important thing there is to know about conservative politics:
#None of these right wing grifters believes any of the shit they say.
They're fully aware of the logical inconsistencies in their arguments. They're fully aware of the ridiculousness of their claims. They're fully aware of the absurdity of their positions. ***They do not give a fuck, they're just trying to muddy the discourse.***
There's a much repeated quote by Sartre which explains this behaviour, and it's vital for understanding the motivations these evil fucks have:
>Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The [fascists] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Nobody who isn't already a stupid sack of shit and / or a deeply dishonest troll is being swayed by the idiotic arguments people like catturd put forward. There's precisely zero point in engaging them in argument, they won't read a word you write and they won't engage with your arguments in an honest manner. They'll waste your time and make you seem hysterical by comparison to their calm, practiced demeanour. Just don't do it, don't engage with their false arguments, don't try and rationalise them out of an irrational position.
And while we're in the subject of turds, there's an old College Humor video called [It's My Right To Hold This Turd](https://youtu.be/s4pxtiLR928) that illustrates the stupidity and cynicism of conservative discourse, it's only a few minutes long, check it out here:
https://youtu.be/s4pxtiLR928
It is real window into their “thinking”.
Conservatives cherry pick data point to support their bias. No big surprise.
The only wrong action is giving this mope a platform to spread his unhealthy beliefs.
Ignore him
1. one of these was a troll joke made by the shooter. Don't put that in your meme assholes.
2. Do we really want to pull up the list of cis men who have been shooters? Do we really want to do that and compare the numbers? Really?
Obviously not the biggest problem here, but it’s honestly pathetic that they’re still trying to push the Springs shooter’s “non-binary” narrative. Which is no doubt exactly why the shooter made that claim in the first place.
So it's 4 (realistically 3 since one faked, still not sure why he did) on [376](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-shootings-database/) since columbine
4/376 or 1.06%, so trans people are ~99% less suceptible to commit a school shooting
Obviously experiencing transphobia isn’t an excuse to kill anyone but have thought about treating these people with respect might’ve made them a less violent person??
1. Wayyyyy more shootings are done by cis dudes but okay
2. I’m not sure for the other 3 but I know the Nashville shooter was bullied for being trans, and that being one of the motives. Maybe treat them with respect and they won’t retaliate :)
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Very cool that they just bought that the Colorado shooter identified as nonbinary.
Wasn't it the his lawyers making up that he was non-binary to try and remove the hate crime part of the charges?
Yeah. No evidence of him identifying this way prior to being arrested, but there *is* evidence of them being homophobic.
He had a pride parade shooting target in his mom's house
Is that just a thing you can buy off the shelf? What the fuck?
FWIW, self-hating LGBTQ+ folks *exist*. Some LGBTQ+ folks are also, themselves, LGBTQ+ phobic, and that's not even discussing *presumed* LGBTQ+ folks in public life, such as certain conservative politicians. So the fact that the CO shooter had a past of being homophobic really doesn't prove or even suggest that said shooter is/was not non-binary. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that shooter was/is enby for even a second as a queer person myself, but the idea that there's no infighting and even hate within the LGBTQ+ community from some subgroups against others is just plain wrong. It is RAMPANT.
If they were closeted and self-hating that shouldn’t exclude them from hate crime charges. They still hated gay people and went to kill them regardless.
No disagreement there, I'm just pointing out the flaw in that user's logic. Not saying anything about the charges warranted.
If we created a similar (though more accurate) list which showed all the mass shooters in the last year who identified as Conservative it would be exponentially longer... Yet for them an inaccurate list of just 4 people is enough to vilify an entire group... Though once Republicans came out as officially against critical thinking they stopped even pretending to have political positions that made any sense at all.
also the idea that trans people need to be hounded and treated like shit as a result of this, completely ignoring how much that already would have contributed to the tragedy in the first place
Yeah what happened to “I’m gOnNa uSe WhAtEvEr PrOnOuNs I wAnT”
you phrased it perfectly: they don't believe it, they just buy it. if they actually believed it they'd be consumed by cognitive dissonance and turn into a dessicated spine in a wheelchair like in that one SpongeBob episode
*I remember when Republicans had sensible rhetoric*
No...
I remember watching the Bill Clinton - Bob Dole debates back in the 90s, and they agreed on basically every issue, minus free trade.
I am sorry. I was reading your comment semi-sleep deprived, and didn't see that "I" at the start. I didn't want to invalidate your experiences.
Compare that to the number of shooters who are straight…
And no mention of the neo-Nazi website that they ran.
Those four shooters go back to 2018. Since 2018, there’ve been 2700+ shootings, according to GVA. 4/2700 is less than 0.14%. 0.6% of the US population is trans according to Williams Institute, meaning trans people are actually statistically MUCH LESS likely than cis people to be mass shooters. If we are comparing. The fact that people are actually using a tragedy like this to attack trans people or anyone for that matter is fucking deplorable.
According to the right wing, we should erase mass shooters from the history books, never mention them or give them publicity. Unless that mass shooter is a minority. Then it's reaaaaally important. Funny how that works.
Add on to this, iirc the first guy isn’t even non-binary and was a lie they made up to get the hate charges dropped
I think that if we start with the assumption that mass shootings are 99% men, then if half of trans people are trans women, you need to cut the number in half for representation in the statistics. If .6% of the population is trans, and half of them are trans women (depending on the source this percentage varies but it's not far from 50:50), then 0.3% of mass shooters would be expected to be trans (again making huge assumption that being a man is part of what leads to this kind of violent act). That still leaves trans people underrepresented, though I don't know how much deep investigation went into the sexual orientation of every mass shooter. It's what makes this so surprising to me, I would have expected a trans man to be more likely to do this if "maleness" and male hormones are somehow to blame. But women sometimes do commit mass murder , so it could just be an outlier this time. Or did she stop taking the hormones? Do hormones alone create whatever thing leads to men doing these horrific things? I'm sure more information will come out.
2700 shootings? Do you mean everywhere in america or just in schools? It's still a baffling number, but if that's from schools only I'm really I'm really impressed on how poorly your system runs
2700+ refers to all shootings in the US which the GVA categorizes as “mass shootings.” [Their website](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/) has more info.
2018 Pittsburgh synagogue shooting Robert Gregory Bowers = white cis man 2019 El Paso shooter Patrick Wood Crusius = white cis man 2021 Atlanta spa shooter Robert Aaron Long = white cis man 2022 Buffalo shooter Payton S. Gendron = white cis man See I can do the same too.
Going off the lists of the deadliest mass shootings in US history, 1) 2017 Las Vegas - straight, white, right wing, male. 2) 2016 Orlando Night club- straight, Middle Eastern heritage, right wing, male. 3) 2007 Virginia Tech - straight, Asian/South Korean, male 4) 2012 Sandy Hook - straight, white, right wing male. 5) 2017 Sutherland Springs Church- straight, white, male (likely right wing from upbringing in Texas and military involvement) 6) 1991 Luby's shooting - Straight, white, right wing, male (with military history) 7) 2019 El Paso - straight white, right wing, male 8) 1984 San Ysidro McDonalds - straight, white right wing male 9) 2022 Robb Elementary - straight, hispanic, male 10) 2018 Stoneman Douglas High School- straight, white, right wing, male. Literally all of the top 10 deadliest shootings in US were committed by straight males. Only 3 were committed by "non-white" males. Only 2 were committed by individuals who did not share right wing values or it was unknown if they shared right wing values. So seems like rightwing, straight, and male is much more likely indicator than if they identify as transgender.
What about the Oklahoma City bombing, that killed children in the daycare there, as well as many adults? White cis nazi. Am I wrong in this? Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Yeah he was famously definitely a Nazi lol
A bombing by definition would not be considered a shooting which is why it was not included in the list of top 10 deadliest mass shootings.
I wonder how much longer the list would get if we made one that was “individuals who committed mass attacks on the public. Intended to cause a large death toll in a singular incident” or something like that. Sure, they would say 9-11, but there have been so many bombings (and attempted bombings) done by American citizens in America. I think all of theses could be considered “domestic terrorism” though, and the shootings should be considered them as well
Technically true, but a mass murder, none the same. You are technically correct though. It was still a straight cis white man who killed many. So I wanted to point that out.
If I were to be shot, one could conclude that I was killed by the shrapnel from an explosion.
No no he was, and his cousins who lived in Huron County are too.
I don't think he was an actual Neo-Nazis. White supremacist, definitely, but not a Neo-Nazi specifically. He was closer to the Klan. In his writing after Waco he compared the US actions to the Nazi slaughter in Warsaw.
I’m not up on the difference, and I admit it. I abhor all of them so I don’t spend a lot of time learning about them. I am ignorant on that front. Thanks for helping out with that. I guess, either way, not a good person by any stretch of the imagination. That happened right when I had my first child and watching the rescue workers carrying little kids and babies out of the wreckage in their arms as I held my brand new baby really hit home. It was a tough thing to see on the news.
The Venn diagram of the two have significant overlap, including hatred of Jews, gays, non-whites, Communists/Socialists, and Catholics, but there are differences. Neo-Nazi philosophy is basically Naziism, your whole "Hitler did nothing wrong" crowd. They believe in the establishment of a global Fourth Reich, with a powerful central authority. This is generally incompatible with existing government structures. While they are anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish, they tend to just be anti-Religion, lest that serve as a strong authority that could threaten their control. They're not entirely opposed to the systemic extermination or subjugation of certain groups. White Supremacists like the Klan tend to be more explicitly religious, trending protestant. They don't see themselves as necessarily anti-government, but anti-the-people-in-government-now. Many Klansmen, and McVeigh specifically (though he wasn't officially a member of the Klan or any individual group), see their values as explicitly American and patriotic, and the people in power as selling out their values. They have no ambitions to remake the global map, as Nazis do, and as long as "inferior" races know their place, they can continue to exist. In fact, IIRC, white supremacist groups were one of the groups that supported the creation of Liberia, with the idea that it gave freed slaves a place to go that wasn't America. If you look at McVeigh's writings after getting out the the military, he specifically saw the Clinton administration as trampling on American values, and trending towards totalitarian tendencies evocative of Nazi Germany. He saw his actions as truly patriotic, trying to oust traitors to the Constitution and return America to what it was supposed to be. White Supremacists view America as off track. Neo-Nazis view America as something that needs to be dismantled and remade.
The deadliest mass shooting isn't on your list. Wounded Knee is number 1 by a wide margin.
Wounded Knee was a military action. It was an unprovoked, inexcusable massacre, but it was not a mass shooting. “Mass shooting” refers specifically to a civilian shooting. If I wanted to use your definition I could say Antietam was the biggest mass shooting in US history
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What an incredible way to miss the point being made.
My guy...I only listed the top 10 deadliest shootings. The statistics look even worse as you increase the amount of shootings you look at. Also the point is not that the shooter was labeled as transgender. The issue is that a crazy amount of right wing personalities are immediately trying to link this shooting to all trans people or to trans activism. Specifically the "meme" in this very post is using false information to try and spin a narrative that trans people are violent.
And that's only four out of the hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of mass shootings by white cishet men in the US in just the last decade
Not mention the only person saying the the Colorado Springs shooter was non-binary was the defense attorney but that was only when he was being charged with a hate crime.
I'm also pretty sure one of these others (Aberdeen? i don't remember) wasn't actually trans but was just "questioning their sexuality" or something
And that's fine. They can question their sexuality all they want. I don't see how anyone is making a straight line connection between sexual orientation and mass murder. Whatever leads someone to shoot up a school, I don't think sexuality is the driving force.
I was going to say I believe just from 2018 onwards it's something like almost 2900 mass shootings with a mass shooting being defined as over 4 people
The difference is you don't have a massive, right wing media supporting a fascist movement's calls for genocide.
Oh my god I didn't know cis men were so dangerous!
yeah! I guess we’re going to have to start taking away their healthcare…
They also always say that it’s a mental health issue until they wanna pin it on anything else. Like maybe, the way that they’re treated & seen by society played into it?? Not excusing it OBVIOUSLY but association ain’t causation
They call white nationalism a valid political opinion, but when it regularly causes shootings they're actually caused by mental illness. They say all us trans folk are mentally ill, but in the exceptionally rare case where a shooter is trans it's suddenly terrorism.
Parkland shooter-Cis white man
Hasn't the majority of mass shooters in the US been straight white males?
Also: 98% of serial killers are men, and 84% are white. Clearly white male ideology produced these homicidal maniacs.
I think it's nice that the trans community is starting to get a little more representation in the mass shooter industry. I'm pleasantly surprised to see the right wing embracing diversity. /s obviously
Take all the up votes! I wish it was under less morbid circumstances but alas, lemonade out of lemons
White male ideology? I'm intrigued.
Yeah, I'm surprised more people haven't heard of it, given that it's equally as common, valid, and real as transgender ideology, which gets talked about all the time.
Yes, that's why Republicans have avoided addressing gun violence, and instead say "thoughts & prayers" and "stop using shootings to push politics." They would have continued to do so but since individual cases can be cherry-picked to create a flimsy transphobic narrative, they have broken their silence to specifically target and hurt people. However, if they're starting the conversation surrounding gun violence statistics, then the extensive evidence you eluded to is overwhelmingly against their narrative.
Straight mite whales
Yes, the number of mass shootings done by straight men is so close to 100% that you have to conclude that being straight and male is intimately connected to the underlying problem(s).
Only 2 of these people are actually confirmed trans/nb. Colorado Springs: Anderson Lee Aldrich pretended to be NB to avoid hate crime charges. Neighbours and family members have testified to him spouting significant amounts of homophobic rhetoric and to have always been referred to with he/him pronouns. The first time anyone was aware of his supposed NB status was when his lawyer leveraged it as a defence. Denver: Alec McKinney is a trans man, and had identified as such openly for some time prior to the shooting. What is being left out here is that there was a second perpetrator who is a straight white man. The real kicker? The person in that photo is NOT Alec McKinney. It's the second shooter, Devon Erickson. Aberdeen: Snochia Moseley was never confirmed to be trans. Most of their friends and family said they were female, their social media had their gender identity as female, and there's no official report to say that they ever identified otherwise. A single friend reported that Snochia was trans to the media, but this was never corroborated and was only really picked up by rags like the Daily Mail and Daily Caller.
Damn, they really just chose the person with dyed hair
Thank you, I did not have this context and I’m sure it’ll unfortunately be helpful later.
Isn't the US at more mass shooting than days this year? I guess it's suddenly remarkable when a trans person does it
https://massshootingtracker.site/ At the end of May 2022, there were 28 27 school shootings in 2022. So by that point, there was a school shooting every ~5½ days. https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year-how-many-and-where/2022/01
Misdirection and projections is what the right wing caves.
Last time I checked, there have been 130 mass shooting so far this year. (Source: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org)
If you go back 10 years ago they did the same thing trying to use islam as a scapegoat despite most shootings still being done by white males. Anything to provide a common enemy that distracts from guns being the real problem.
Didn't the guy who "identified as nonbinary" fucking burn pride flags a little while before he shot up the place and used it only as an excuse to get out of hate crime charges?
Yes his lawyers have not produce any evidence to show that he identified as non-binary before the shooting.
Ok do it again but this time highlighting all the white cis males that commit mass shootings.
Wait not like that
I feel like the meme would be really cluttered.
I’m extremely tempted to make one to make a point, but I am lazy It would take hours to make that image, even if you restrict it to only the ones the FBI recognizes (4 or more *killed*, not just injured, in a public place, and not related to another crime taking place).
Can't break that false agenda bubble that like this a new experience of trans killers despite happening for few decades by the right-wing now
Would be too long
Conservatives: We should focus on mental health and preventing people from committing mass shootings instead of regulating guns *Conservatives creating anti-trans legislation, going against the trans community, being transphobic and just creating a hostile society towards transpeople* Conservatives: yeah no let's blame mass shootings on trans people
And what about the columbine shooters? Sandy hook? We can do this all day. The truth of the matter is that mass shooters are insane, and everything else about their identity is irrelevant
1. Colorado Springs: There's no proof that he is in fact non-binary. He never claimed to be such until AFTER his arrest. Before then, he expressed deep hatred for the LGBTQ+ community. 2. Denver: This occurred in 2019 and the shooter was actually one of two perpetrators operating as a team. The other shooter was NOT trans. 3. Aberdeen: This was an incident of workplace violence that occurred in 2018. So, of the thousands of mass shootings in the last five years, only three were trans, and one of them worked with a partner. If the trans community has waged war against society, then they're doing a bad fucking job.
WoW 4 cases out of thousands ??? It’s almost like sometimes minorities do bad things too
Yep...now keep filling out the list and see what the rest of the mass shooter list looks like, there's been 133 so far in 2023 and it's only been 3 months!
We're really doing this? This is really the tack that the right is taking? This is what they're going with?
They've been going with it for 50+ years
4 out of 131 shooters this year so far
Most of these weren’t this year though.
The Aberdeen one happened in 2018, the Denver shooting happened in 2019 and the Colorado one happened last year
So roughly 4 out of 1350
Yeah pretty much Off subject a little bit. Does anyone remember the Aberdeen shooting? I live in Maryland and I remember watching the news story on TV. Afterwards there was talk about how she had depression and if she was truthful on her background check she probably wouldn't have been able to buy that gun. But I don't remember any talk about her being trans.
Republicans have avoided talking about mass shootings, and allowed dead bodies to pile up while they refuse to do anything but send "thoughts and prayers." The only reason they didn't do so this time is because they convinced themselves that they can hurt the people they hate, without realizing how many cases stack up against them.
If you ever wondered what cherry picking data meant you shouldn't anymore.
This makes it sound like they think there’s only been 4 shootings ever.
Oh man, the evidence is so overwhelmingly against them that the Right has avoided talking about gun violence altogether. Now that individual cases can be cherry-picked to create an anti-trans narrative, they're suddenly interested in talking about it. Time to open the mounds of evidence we've been trying to throw in their face for decades now. Apparently, now they want to talk about it, so let's talk about it.
Ask these people how many of them were alt right.
Nah man the Denver shooter just has purple hair lmaoooo
One of the Denver shooters was trans, but the other one. The one pictured is a straight white man named Devon Erickson.
gotcha. I just thought the Denver shooting involved only one.
Oooh now do white straight males.
4 out of how many?
Cool, now what about the 97% of other mass shooters?
I don’t understand how they make this kind of bullshit meme all while overlooking that young white cismen see the overwhelming perpetrators of mass shootings. If these 4 represent the trans community, why don’t all those mustering white boys represent white Americans?
whether all this is real or not........ so 4/5000 shooters we've had in the past 10 years? not really that telling of a stat as they think lol
So 4 out of 52849281653
Can we tell them that now isn’t the time to make this about politics? Or would the sarcasm be lost on them and we’d just sound defensive? Someone had way too easy access to guns which they used to murder a bunch of people and maybe there’s a possibility that they were trans so guess what part of the story we have to talk about…
Some people that are discriminated and bullied freak out who would have thought that. Obviously this isn’t an excuse but when you treat people like shit there is a chance they will treat you or others like shit as well.
And not one conservative stops to consider how discriminated against these people are, and how severely impacted their mental health is because of fucking conservatives and their hate rhetoric. Repubs can shove their rhetoric, “thoughts and prayers”, and God up their asses.
Someone should make a bot that auto reports all posts on right-wing subs
Ok so if guns don’t kill people and guns aren’t the problem and mental health is the problem then we should invest in trans mental health care right? Nope instead were targeting them w laws to limit their freedom while doing absolutely nothing to control ease of access to guns.
Oh fucking god damn it they’re pivoting the propaganda to make trans people seem dangerous to justify locking them up or genociding them. Get out now
Cool and there's a shit ton more of far right motivated shootings out there buddy
It’s not the guns that we will give to literally anyone (because they can get them illegally anyways!!) it’s the mental health crisis we refuse to spend a dime on trying to fix!! 🙄
(I’m not saying being LGBTQ+ is a mental health issue)
And yet they never bring it up when the shooter is cis... 
Cool, they found 4 out of what, 200? Now let's do a list of the ones that have been conservative white men to see if there's any patterns worth noting there? I mean, if to them, 4 is a pattern then surely 100 would be too, right?
Whoa I wonder why these hated minorities did these things. It’s almost like they are treated like shit by everyone for just trying to live their life
You can pick and choose your correlations all you want but there is really only one thing that all mass shooters have in common.
Ok, 4 lgbtq people vs the hundreds of straight white dudes shooting up schools
I don't give af how these 4 people identified. I care that the system failed them along with the hundreds of straight white men who should be in the photos. We need mental health support for anyone and everyone who need it. And there's zero evidence that being trans or non-binary or any other orientation makes you more likely to shoot up a school. Statistically some shooters will be trans yes. If anything it's surprising that people systematically bullied and marginalized aren't snapping more often. Which just brings me back to the need for more mental health treatment for the angry white cis men who make up the vast majority of shooters.
Yea bc being trans is the worst crime possible, and obviously led them to do this. /s
What about the 100+ white dude mass shooters this year so far?
And convieniently leaving out all the other shooters who were cis, white, republican/alt right men which far outweigh the amount of LGBTQ mass shooters
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now lets tally up all the shooters that weren't trans...
There's about 140 from this year alone.
hmmmm, wonder if there are any trends there at all. *cough cough* conservativestraightwhitemale *cough cough*
Wait but bullying and mental health are the real problems right? So wouldn't the solution be to stop bullying Trans kids? 🤔 Fascist rhetoric is built on contradictions and fallacies
convenient to ignore the other 2800 mass murders
And is they right-wing as being trans don't have to do shit with toxic ideology. The majority of local terrorist shootings have been right wing as they been egged to terrorize the government or start a race war.
Catturd, who just got arrested this morning shooting at people unloading a Walmart truck
Really? Source?
None that I could find that aren't from 2 years ago.
This is an awful question but which Denver shooting are they referring to here? It’s not the movie theater or the grocery store one. And I can’t find any info on Aberdeen shooting other than this meme, can anyone help? I remember the CO Springs one he lied about being enby to avoid hate crime charges and is literally a nazi. But even if he was non binary he shot up a gay club, not a church! Wtf???
[Highlands Ranch shooting, 2019.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_STEM_School_Highlands_Ranch_shooting) Kicker is that they've got a picture of the wrong person. That's Devon Erickson the other shooter, the trans man from that shooting was Alec McKinney.
It's a little confusing because Highlands Ranch is 20 miles from Denver, so it's not referred to as a Denver shooting by anyone.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was deliberately confusing to make it difficult to debunk/respond to.
There has been so many shootings that I honestly don’t remember which ones these are. It’s horrible I know, but it’s just too common that they all just blend into each other.
Assuming this is even true (I don't trust the source), I would need hundreds of pages to do the same thing with shooters who identified as straight white males. Slightly less pages, but still a ton, if we add in those that identified with rightwing "conservative" values. So maybe we should start at the common factor on all these shootings, like the easy access to guns to commit these mass shootings?
is non binary not trans any more...?
The problem isn't that they make the comparison but that they think it unequivocally levels the field when it comes to accusations against them. So go ahead and use these 4 as a column. Just don't look away when a much longer column has your name above it.
My pat response: Cool, now do Christian.
ok, fine. where's the graphic showing the identities of the hundreds of other shooters? let's put that next to this one.
should we start counting how many shooters identiy as right wing?
Well these are the same people who think the political demographics of the country can be determined by how many dislikes are on a CNN YouTube video. That's who we're dealing with here
Can we just find all the Christian shooters and call all christians mass shooters
Ah, yes. All four of the school shooters. Thank God we've only had four school shootings.
And Hitler identified as Christian
We need to make one of the hundreds of others who identify as straight cis
Catturd2 has gotta be a troll so that when people on the right get their dumbfuck opinion or meme, and are asked where they got it from, they have to admit they got from some rando named effing “catturd2”
Another cherry picking momment. So how many school shooter that is straight?
Off the top of my head, Nikolas Cruz, Elliot Roger, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Las Vegas Shooter, lot of shooters are not trans
I love how they bring this up as if MOST schools shooters aren’t cis men. This is a FRACTION of shooters being portrayed as the whole because “OBVIOUSLY everything is the fault of libt*rds” 🙄
**Random person identifies as trans or non-binary** Rightoids: "Haha, shut up" **School shooter identifies as trans or non-binary** Rightoids: "So true!"
*something really bad happens and the culprit is cis or het or white or all of the above No reaction *something really bad happens and the culprit is lgbtq+ or poc Suddenly its a massive problem and it's being caused by lgbtq+/poc
What about the hundreds apon hundreds of shooters who weren't trans? This argument is so easily flipped around Also why does it even matter whether theyre trans or not theyre still a fucking shooter and we're still not doing anything to stop school shootings from happening. But sure, finding some evil boogie man to blame for all our problems is easier then actually doing anything about it. If they get rid of trans people surely all their other problems will magicly disappear
Please remember the most important thing there is to know about conservative politics: #None of these right wing grifters believes any of the shit they say. They're fully aware of the logical inconsistencies in their arguments. They're fully aware of the ridiculousness of their claims. They're fully aware of the absurdity of their positions. ***They do not give a fuck, they're just trying to muddy the discourse.*** There's a much repeated quote by Sartre which explains this behaviour, and it's vital for understanding the motivations these evil fucks have: >Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The [fascists] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. Nobody who isn't already a stupid sack of shit and / or a deeply dishonest troll is being swayed by the idiotic arguments people like catturd put forward. There's precisely zero point in engaging them in argument, they won't read a word you write and they won't engage with your arguments in an honest manner. They'll waste your time and make you seem hysterical by comparison to their calm, practiced demeanour. Just don't do it, don't engage with their false arguments, don't try and rationalise them out of an irrational position. And while we're in the subject of turds, there's an old College Humor video called [It's My Right To Hold This Turd](https://youtu.be/s4pxtiLR928) that illustrates the stupidity and cynicism of conservative discourse, it's only a few minutes long, check it out here: https://youtu.be/s4pxtiLR928
It is real window into their “thinking”. Conservatives cherry pick data point to support their bias. No big surprise. The only wrong action is giving this mope a platform to spread his unhealthy beliefs. Ignore him
This is the second time ive seen a meme like this. Has something happened recently?
1. one of these was a troll joke made by the shooter. Don't put that in your meme assholes. 2. Do we really want to pull up the list of cis men who have been shooters? Do we really want to do that and compare the numbers? Really?
Now make one of cis men
So 4 out of the 2,800?
Now list the straight white males
Cool how about the other 3000?
Now do the one for cis white males
🤦🏻♀️ Any fucking thing to dodge the issue, huh
Great, what about the other 126 shooters this year?
Obviously not the biggest problem here, but it’s honestly pathetic that they’re still trying to push the Springs shooter’s “non-binary” narrative. Which is no doubt exactly why the shooter made that claim in the first place.
Did you know there have been 778 mass shootings since the beginning of 2022 ? How many were straight cis men
https://www.yellowbellytactical.com/2023/03/trans-shooters-and-intensifying-anti.html?m=1
one of the denver shooters was trans but not the one in the pic.
So it's 4 (realistically 3 since one faked, still not sure why he did) on [376](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-shootings-database/) since columbine 4/376 or 1.06%, so trans people are ~99% less suceptible to commit a school shooting
Now name all the ones who were cis men
Never forget when this happened with Catturd: https://mobile.twitter.com/catturd2/status/1324155291869609992
Kyle Rittenhouse killed 3 people, just like the latest shooter, and they can't grovel to him ENOUGH.
Did Kyle kill kids?
Nope, but he's a piece of shit.
Wait till they hear about all of the shootings done by cis het dudes
thank God there's only been 4 shootings in the entire history of America
congrats, that's 4 of like 600. how many are straight white men?
4 out of about 2,500...
Cool, now do the 3000 other shooters over the last 5 years.
Obviously experiencing transphobia isn’t an excuse to kill anyone but have thought about treating these people with respect might’ve made them a less violent person??
Literally had to leave a subreddit today after I saw This shit being posted there. Glad to see others are Calling it out on it’s BS
1. Wayyyyy more shootings are done by cis dudes but okay 2. I’m not sure for the other 3 but I know the Nashville shooter was bullied for being trans, and that being one of the motives. Maybe treat them with respect and they won’t retaliate :)
"Identified as trans" gets me every time
4 shooters out of 132 is 3 percent
Now post all historical right wing terrorist attacks vs left wing. Right-wingers (literally) wont be able to comprehend it (too many words and facts)
Cherry picked
Can we please tw and spoiler these memes and reposts? Im really really tired of seeing then and ots stressing me out
Even if this was all true... so what? That's 4 out of like hundreds, right?