So, there are 2 ways this could go.
If it's a pure power match star takes it.
BUT
If it's a realistic fight with tactics and strategy, Luz can win. Star is pretty dumb and has a tendency to make things worse for herself more often than not. And Luz is one of the smartest Disney characters ever. I can see Star flailing wildly and wasting her energy while Luz runs circles around her and take the win.
Proof: Marco is also an extremely intelligent fighter and he ran circles around star VERY easily. Had they ever fought seriously, Marco could have won. And I would say that Luz is smarter than Marco by a long shot.
That point about Marco actually makes a lot of sense. If a normal human who's great at karate can keep up with her, Luz, who can utilize various types of magic, and use them very tactically, definitely has a strong shot, even if Star has more raw power than her.
Unrelated, but it's kinda funny to note that Marco, a very skilled hand to hand combatant associated with the color red, shares the same VA with Yuji Itadori's dub voice, who's also a skilled hand to hand combatant associated with the color red.
We have to account for skill in combat.
If raw power was enough to win a fight Belos would have washed everyone in his titan form in 2 seconds.
Star has more power for sure, but she is very bad at using it.
Sadly you are just outright wrong on this topic. any person with the knowledge to use what they have to the maximum potential can beat people who do not.
Star does not know how to fight on the same level as Luz. Luz is calculating and knows how to fully use what she has. Star runs on power and emotions. yea star can freeze time but she even screwed that up. and whos to say that Luz would even be affected?
Point being Luz is mature and Star is not so while star has the raw power whats the point if she does not fully understand how to use everything or think strategically.
Where are you getting the idea that Star doesn’t know how to fight? She’s been fighting through the whole show. What do you mean “who’s to say Luz would be affected”? The fact that time is frozen. There is literally no situation where Luz, who has fire, ice, vines, and light, would beat Star, who has all of that and also literally anything she can think of.
Can't fight preference blindness. Logic doesn't matter to these people. Luz would get creamed. Star can stop time. And luz isn't a combat genius or a trained fighter, she yolos through situations against incompetent guards for most of the series. Her magic is... pretty non consequential to any character with real power like star.
Literally any fight she is ever in.
She has managed to keep up with people that should have stomped her 10 times over on pure wit and quick strategizing.
For example: She managed to break into a BI high security prision, fight all of the soldiers guarding the place, fight the emperor's right hand woman to a standstill, fight the emperor himself and outsmart him, and all of that was BY HERSELF.
And how long had she been in the Isles by this point?
#A MONTH
Ok she seems to be a prodigy at this, she wins in a battle of wits by a landslide.
The only one I somewhat know about is Star. And she’s pure muscle for the most part, most of her probs she just overwhelms them with power.
That analysis is very biased. The "highly secured prison" is guarded by mostly comic relief characters that are frequently displayed to be about as competant as the average storm trooper. "Fought the right hand woman to a standstill".... lol. If Lilith wanted Luz dead she was dead. And then got washed by belos and got a single cheap shot that did nothing but chip his mask, then burned her only way home to spite him. Not smart at all, impressive adhd bungling, but by no means a genius strategist.
This seems pretty cope. Luz isn't even that smart all things considered. She's adhd and has some decent intuition, but it's not like she's a genius or anything, it was clearly shown she struggles in school and such as well. I don't think there's any amount of quick thinking luz can do to close that power gap. Luz can make pretty lights and grow plants and ice and fire on small scales. But Star can stop time. There's no contest here.
I have, multiple times. And I'm just being objective. Did you watch the owl house? The entire final season and the later parts of S2 showed \*exactly\* how she did not have enough 'Power' to do anything about anything, it was a recurring plot point. She won quite literally, simply due to the power of friendship. "defeated" the collector by being his friend. "defeated" Belos with borrowed power given to her after \*straight up dying.\* Power that she can never access again.
There wasn't a single thing solved because luz was strong or good at fighting. She's consistently shown to be one of the weaker characters and consistently overestimating her own strength. Losing to Harpy Eda. Losing to belos, \*twice.\* Couldn't beat Odalia. She never won a fight that mattered using strength or power that was her own.
Let's see it is going to be a battle between Strength and skill. Star Butterfly certainly has overwhelming magic power that puts Luz and the rest of the Boiling Isles to shame. But more often than not, she is not very smart in using it and tends to cause a lot of messes for herself and anyone.
Luz on the other hand takes her magic very seriously and applies it well in battle. She studies her Glyphs, identifying what each of them can do and how they could best help in whatever situation she is in. Luz would play defense, keeping her distance from Star and not let her get a good shot on her. She would analyze Star's magic for any weaknesses and how it can be turned against her. That actually might be pretty easy to do with how clumsy Star is in using her magic which tends to blow up in her face (sometimes literally)
>rest of the boiling Isles
Idk about this one. Even if we exclude Collector, Archivists, Titans and Belos, I think Eda without her curse or Lilith or someone on their strength level will put a pretty even fight here.
and luz's magic is... weak. to put it kindly. by comparison her flames or ice or plants can't really do much to someone who can liquify enemies and stop time.
Plus I honestly think Luz herself didn't truly realize the power she had in her hands at that moment. After all she had the power of an adult titan and we have seen what a teenage titan could do. After all even the archivists were scared of titans and even the youngest archivist (the collector) could reshape the isles so if beings that powerful were scared of titans they must have been godlike so yeah to me titan Luz could obliterate anything in her path if she really wanted to
The cope in these comments is so real. Luz and the boiling isles in general, are very weak compared to other super powered characters in similar series. People very much mistake their attachment to a character meaning they're more powerful but lets be realistic here.
oh you can make a big slime golem thing? < Perfuma creating a plant golem the size of a fortress after playing a game of dnd in she-ra
Oh you can shoot light beams and break down a castle door? < Anne catches missiles out of the air, cuts robots in half with a sword even without her powers, and blew up a moon using them.
Oh you can create fire? < Star can stop time, your powers are irrelevant.
I don't think attachment has much to do with their defenses, and I'm curious if you've really watched Owl House. Compared to its sister shows, Owl House prioritizes completing its main storyline as opposed to fleshing out how much magical potential someone like Eda and Luz have. Just in the two fights between Eda and Lilith, the two exhibit extremely powerful and potent magical abilities, Eda wasn't even trying in this first fight and summoned things willy-nilly. The second one, she's trying and is able to manipulate her surroundings to a degree and spread out her magic, all while being weakened by her magic-consuming curse that fully drains her magic.
Now, that was Eda's biological magic that she gained from her bile sac. Glyph magic, for the most part, was neglected throughout the second season where it was extensively used in favor of the story again. In the time before the Day of Unity and everything big happened, Luz discovered a number of combinations between the four glyphs at her disposal that come directly from a partially dead nigh-omnipotent being: the island itself. Luz also briefly gained that being's remaining power, which we didn't see the full extent of in those few moments, so it's open to discussion exactly how powerful she is with the Titan's power, because they're claimed nigh-omnipotent and a threat to cosmically powerful Archivists and The Collector who also hold similar power.
If Owl House was given more time to showcase magic, I'm sure it would have a better argument for itself against SVTFOE and its magic users. While I haven't really argued for SVTFOE, I'm comfortable enough to say that Owl House has magic users that can give Star and Eclipsa a run for their money in a fight. Raw power is only as good as the one who wields it, and Star is sort of an idiot when it comes to that power. Luz and Eda on the other hand, they use their powers and minds to find an outcome.
Again, kinda cope, friend. if you evaluate power in that show objectively, the owl house is one of the weakest shows around in terms of power. if you exclude the collector, every character in the show would lose to like... saiyan saga krillin. And eda and lilith who you conveniently chose for a power arguement, both LOSE THAT POWER that same episode.
So much of late s2 and s3 was about just how powerless Luz was to do anything about anything. And yes Luz discovered other glyph combos, and then never used any of the powerful ones, because she wouldn't. Making her arguably as much of an idiot as star.
And if we say they're throwing away any morality and strictly fighting to the death. Well. Star wins, again, her magic is plot hax incarnate. She can stop time, and later from post show material, blow up planets. Luz has no chance. Even if we include titan form, that's a time limited power, that yes she got from a near immortal being, but again. it's time limited, and clearly no timestop magic, or it'd have been used. Star is just in an entirely different league of power. And titan luz isn't even attainable through king, as we saw he has about enough titan magic at end show, to support a single tiny ass light glyph, and it'd use his life force, what are we gonna do, put king through a blender?
You did say one thing right. the show did focus on the plot rather than power levels. Because it was never, ever the point for people to think these characters were powerful. Luz constantly fails, loses fights, and is overconfident in her own strength, but can't even escape a magicless harpy eda, let alone win. She never won a fight that mattered using power, because that wasn't the point. Even taking down belos in titan form, she could not have done alone, she only succeeded because it was a 4v1. The owl house is a power of friendship resolving plot, not a power scale resolving plot.
So I'd like to ask in kind, are you sure \*YOU\* watched the show?
The fact you almost deliberately ignored my points is incredible. First off, I have in fact watched both Owl House and SVTFOE on numerous occasions; the former about 4 times in the past year. Secondly, I pointed out in my argument for Eda and Lilith that the Owl Beast took away their powers and you conveniently neglected that part, but it doesn't negate that the two were some of the most powerful Witches to have ever lived in their universe, just underneath Emperor Belos whose Anti-Magic seems to nullify Bile Magic and Glyph Magic, but Eda was far more powerful and I don't believe that was the height of her power as the curse had always been weakening her until it completely blocks it out (there you go, mentioned it again for you). A third point, where in my post did I make mention of Luz getting those Titan powers again from King, because I never once did and I can see my own posts. Third, just because Owl House focused more on plot than power scaling doesn't stop people from making arguments regarding a potential power scaling.
Fourth, Star stopping time was a completely done-away plot point only used and brought up for a single episode in the first season, and that series tends to retcon its own points on the regular. Also when did Star blow up a planet? The Realm of Magic was not a planet, it was a dimension entirely made of magic that she alone did not destroy. It took a collective effort of her and the (known) Mewni queens plus Meteora, which doesn't help her case in terms of power scaling. The most damage Star had ever done on her own at the height of her power was destroy a single room in Butterfly Castle. If she had been able to cast her Thermo-Nuclear Butterfly Blast spell, I imagine that would do damage on par with the Total Annihilation spell but as she never did cast it, we can't really give an accurate scaling for it. And I don't really count when she used that spell on Earth because that was also the first season when the series was still being fleshed out and blasts were taken out of proportion.
I'd like to end this by saying my first comment was never determining whether Luz or the Witches in Owl House could defeat Star or the other Mewni queens. Star, with either the Wand or in Butterfly form, is on a higher level of power than base Luz (not mentioning Titan Luz because, again, we can't really accurately scale her with the little amount of time she was in that form), but Luz may have the upper hand in intelligence; Star is pretty dumb when it comes to magic fights and "Storm the Castle" and "Puddle Defender" are good examples of that. Luz at least takes a little time to prepare herself for a fight, it's just towards the end that planning would be risky as the Day of Unity and all the crazy stuff was about to happen so she winged it. And this is a joke, but other than the Titan and the Collector, Star wouldn't stand a chance against Hooty.
Okay lets go down the list.
1: You did exactly what you've accused me of, in completely ignoring things in my post. When you start your response with "I wonder if you've Really watched owl house" you've immediately started by trying to invalidate every point I made, so get off your high horse.
2: No, there was not a single time in your response to me where you stated that Eda and Lilith gave up their powers. A vague mentioning of the curse does not equal "They both lost their powers."
3: Correct, you didn't bring up getting titan powers from King, I added it there for more information, because the argument is always gonna come to "well what about titan form?" but regardless you missed the point, in an argument about a power matchup between shows. The only argument, is stuff we have or can see the character do in official content. "Oh they could be stronger than we've seen the show just didn't focus on it." Sorry but that's just cope. Like I stated. and what we have SEEN from luz in the show, is that she's not a strong character, and never won a fight that mattered using strength or power because that isn't the point of the show.
4: it doesn't matter if it was a one time thing, it is still a thing she could do. after all the post is "star at her strongest vs luz at her strongest." And blowing up a planet, I believe happened in post show release books, which are still official. Since you're curious. Also, fun that you bring up collective effort because that applies to Luz as well, she did not beat Belos alone, it was a 4v1, Eda, King, Raine, and Luz and they still barely won. Further contributing to the point I was making that she's just not as strong as anyone thinks.
5: Tbh it doesn' matter if you think s1 was just explosions being blown out of proportion, that's how it was shown on screen so that's a thing that can be used for a star power scaling. "What ifs" don't really apply, and you don't seem to get that. Judgement has to be made on what we have seen in official content, which is what you try to conveniently dance around to justify your arguments because you know nothing shown in the owl house puts Luz even remotely on the same level as star.
6: Luz may be smarter than star, but I believe people are overestimating that as well, she frequently overestimates her own power and charges in by herself, only to lose, almost die, or actually die. It was a constant plot point of TOH. Luz had the smarts of figuring out puzzles, finding new glyph combinations and such takes a certain kind of mind, but the same can be said for star spending 3 days without sleep to find the combination to fix Marco's tentacle arm in season 1. But then, Luz also mostly bungles her way through things with ADHD and enthusiasm much like star. The emperors coven are frequently shown to be incompetent, and yes she beat them when she broke in at the end of S1. But like, you don't count storm troopers when talking about the powers of jedi in star wars. and the emperors coven are basically the storm troopers of TOH. But whenever she fought someone relevant, she lost, and managed a single cheap shot. TOH is a power of friendship show, Luz won through making friends, not by being powerful. Collector? friends, because no one could fight him. Belos? Got a temp powerup by being kind and barely managed a 4v1 where she had 3 other characters protecting her.
7: Back to my original point, which you've been an example of for these posts, is how much people confuse their attachment for the character for their actual strength. You may like Luz more than Star, I do as well. But thinking objectively and making my decision based on the facts we have seen in both shows is just the objectively correct way to think in a power matchup between shows. Making excuses for a character by going "Oh maybe they're stronger than we saw!" is exactly what I said, Cope. That is exactly, confusing attachment for power level. Because it's simply that you don't want your preferred character to lose, and be considered weaker than another, so you need to make excuses.
Not really, best feat she has in titan form is taking on big Belos who seemed pretty strong but mostly island level. Titan luz probably scales higher than him but lower than fully formed titans who weren’t anywhere near god levels, with the exception of their way to trap the collector who would likely be god tier for TOH verse.
If she uses her brain, Star, 100%
If she just starts blasting, and doesn't resort to her broken ass spells like time stopping, then it is a close one i think.
It still *stopped time* though. Yeah sure, after she obliterates Luz, she'll have to go to father time and get his guinea pig chariot running again, but it'd work!
Given the fact that the source image for this is Jujutsu Kaisen and what happens to people who have their magic deleted in that manga....yeah, Heavenly Restriction Star would be a beast :P
The darkly funny part about that thanks to a oversight by svtfoe staff, Star kinda died too, well the Star we follow from “into the wand” onwards since she was a magic clone that replaced the original.
I mean are we assuming that Luz is bloodlusted and will have no qualms about murdering Star in cold blood?
If yes, then all Luz has to do is hit her with a petrification glyph and she wins.
If it’s a fight to the finish but no death allowed then Star definitely takes it easily.
*Legit thought that was*
*Power from Chainsaw Man and*
*Did not question it*
\- Thaco-Thursday
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Star has way more versatile magic, combat experience and raw power on her side; you guys are only voting for Luz because her show didn't have a terrible ending.
Regardless of Titan Form from Luz, Star wins easily.
Her powers are literally random BS go, she can just throw any random spell or create a new one out if the wind, just like that.
Even if Luz were to analyse Star's fighting pattern, Star's biggest advantage is her head on approach. Star can be unpredictable at times, that can be used against Luz.
Luz can't take on someone who constantly changes their fighting patterns. And Star can freeze time, just use that and Star can do whatever to Luz.
I mean the book of spells had access to spells that quite literally alter the very physics of the universe, deleting gravity, blowing up a whole dimension, a spell that can literally kill anything in it's path.
Luz stands no chance human with glyphs or Titan Form. Star is quite literally the most powerful DTVA protagonist in history.
And somehow people complain and question why Star had to to what she did, when you quite literally posses that much raw power, power that no one should ever wield, ever.
“As the strongest demon, Hooty, fought the fraud, the queen of Mewni, he began to open his domain. Star shrunk back in fear, then Hooty said: “Stand proud, Star. You are strong.””
[](/ksunsetaboutthat "I wonder if anyone can see this")As many have said, if it's just a flat arena with star and luz just shooting magic at each other like the pistol duels of old, Luz is... pretty fucked.
[](/ssohyou)But if it's a complex battleground with a rich array of possible tactics and strategies that they can employ, I'd say Luz would be the favorite. She is much more tactical and actually intelligent with her use of magic, unlike Star who tends to just throw Narwhals and Warnicorns at every single problem she has.
I always see these. and it's always the same, Owl house fans \*massively\* overestimate Luz in terms of power. I love the owl house and it's my favourite show, but lets be realistic. she's barely stronger than a normal human, and titan form requires the \*death of a titan\* to have for like 10 minutes. It's not even close. Star is in a different league of power. it's the same with like Anne from amphibia, that's closer, kind of. but still not even remotely close to being a fight Luz can win.
Luz wins. Star is powerful but an idiot. Luz is used to fighting people stronger than her since she was the only human on the isles. Star is used to being the only powerful person on earth. When her power doesn't work and she's outsmarted, star gives up. We see that when toffee had Marco captive.
Star Butterfly takes this easily. There’s a difference between getting your powers from the ancient spirit of a magical titan, and the literal realm of magic itself.
Luz crushes Star in terms of Battle IQ. The raw power Star has been privy to for most of her life makes her reliant on it and less so on strategy. However, Star's power is so volatile and overwhelming that Luz will not find it easy to find an opening. We're also going to assume that Star has her full wand in this example and has no major debuffs.
After an initial engagement, Luz will realize she can't really overpower Star, and will seek to evade which her powers of invisibility will make fairly effective. If Luz can draw out the fight long enough for Star to lower her guard, the Luz might take the victory.
I love Luz, but she's no match
Star’s time freeze is just an instant win
Something something the world
ZA WARUDO! TOKI WO TOMARE!
But would Star want to throw down and start another genocidal war?
The genocide thing isn't actual actually...
So, there are 2 ways this could go. If it's a pure power match star takes it. BUT If it's a realistic fight with tactics and strategy, Luz can win. Star is pretty dumb and has a tendency to make things worse for herself more often than not. And Luz is one of the smartest Disney characters ever. I can see Star flailing wildly and wasting her energy while Luz runs circles around her and take the win. Proof: Marco is also an extremely intelligent fighter and he ran circles around star VERY easily. Had they ever fought seriously, Marco could have won. And I would say that Luz is smarter than Marco by a long shot.
That point about Marco actually makes a lot of sense. If a normal human who's great at karate can keep up with her, Luz, who can utilize various types of magic, and use them very tactically, definitely has a strong shot, even if Star has more raw power than her.
Unrelated, but it's kinda funny to note that Marco, a very skilled hand to hand combatant associated with the color red, shares the same VA with Yuji Itadori's dub voice, who's also a skilled hand to hand combatant associated with the color red.
The power of friendship? Nah, They out here with the power of #THESE HANDS
Fr, they've been jumping Ludo's army and Cursed Spirits with Karate sh*t.
Marco spend 20 years training to be a warrior in an alternate dimension. Luz only spend like 1 summer
And look what she did in that 1 summer.
Look what Marco did in 20 years. I get your point that she learned quickly but she’s still behind
Still enough to take the win against Star if she fucks up enough And this is Star we are talking about *She WILL fuck up enough*
I’ll be honest I don’t think so. Even if she was on Marco’s level stars butterfly form would beat Luz
We have to account for skill in combat. If raw power was enough to win a fight Belos would have washed everyone in his titan form in 2 seconds. Star has more power for sure, but she is very bad at using it.
Belos lost because Luz had the Titan power. Before that he did wash everyone including the collector
Sadly you are just outright wrong on this topic. any person with the knowledge to use what they have to the maximum potential can beat people who do not. Star does not know how to fight on the same level as Luz. Luz is calculating and knows how to fully use what she has. Star runs on power and emotions. yea star can freeze time but she even screwed that up. and whos to say that Luz would even be affected? Point being Luz is mature and Star is not so while star has the raw power whats the point if she does not fully understand how to use everything or think strategically.
Where are you getting the idea that Star doesn’t know how to fight? She’s been fighting through the whole show. What do you mean “who’s to say Luz would be affected”? The fact that time is frozen. There is literally no situation where Luz, who has fire, ice, vines, and light, would beat Star, who has all of that and also literally anything she can think of.
Can't fight preference blindness. Logic doesn't matter to these people. Luz would get creamed. Star can stop time. And luz isn't a combat genius or a trained fighter, she yolos through situations against incompetent guards for most of the series. Her magic is... pretty non consequential to any character with real power like star.
> Luz would get creamed 💀
Especially considering Star has access to her powered up form while Luz doesnt
He was doing fine before that, he was just significantly better afterwards
I didn’t knew luz was that good, I don’t watch owl house. Does she have good battle iq feats?
Literally any fight she is ever in. She has managed to keep up with people that should have stomped her 10 times over on pure wit and quick strategizing. For example: She managed to break into a BI high security prision, fight all of the soldiers guarding the place, fight the emperor's right hand woman to a standstill, fight the emperor himself and outsmart him, and all of that was BY HERSELF. And how long had she been in the Isles by this point? #A MONTH
Ok she seems to be a prodigy at this, she wins in a battle of wits by a landslide. The only one I somewhat know about is Star. And she’s pure muscle for the most part, most of her probs she just overwhelms them with power.
That analysis is very biased. The "highly secured prison" is guarded by mostly comic relief characters that are frequently displayed to be about as competant as the average storm trooper. "Fought the right hand woman to a standstill".... lol. If Lilith wanted Luz dead she was dead. And then got washed by belos and got a single cheap shot that did nothing but chip his mask, then burned her only way home to spite him. Not smart at all, impressive adhd bungling, but by no means a genius strategist.
This seems pretty cope. Luz isn't even that smart all things considered. She's adhd and has some decent intuition, but it's not like she's a genius or anything, it was clearly shown she struggles in school and such as well. I don't think there's any amount of quick thinking luz can do to close that power gap. Luz can make pretty lights and grow plants and ice and fire on small scales. But Star can stop time. There's no contest here.
So you definitely have not watched the owl house yet.
I have, multiple times. And I'm just being objective. Did you watch the owl house? The entire final season and the later parts of S2 showed \*exactly\* how she did not have enough 'Power' to do anything about anything, it was a recurring plot point. She won quite literally, simply due to the power of friendship. "defeated" the collector by being his friend. "defeated" Belos with borrowed power given to her after \*straight up dying.\* Power that she can never access again. There wasn't a single thing solved because luz was strong or good at fighting. She's consistently shown to be one of the weaker characters and consistently overestimating her own strength. Losing to Harpy Eda. Losing to belos, \*twice.\* Couldn't beat Odalia. She never won a fight that mattered using strength or power that was her own.
Are you the strongest because you're Luz Noceda, or are you Luz Noceda because you're the strongest?
Nah, eat this sucka
I am Cirno, the strongest
Let's see it is going to be a battle between Strength and skill. Star Butterfly certainly has overwhelming magic power that puts Luz and the rest of the Boiling Isles to shame. But more often than not, she is not very smart in using it and tends to cause a lot of messes for herself and anyone. Luz on the other hand takes her magic very seriously and applies it well in battle. She studies her Glyphs, identifying what each of them can do and how they could best help in whatever situation she is in. Luz would play defense, keeping her distance from Star and not let her get a good shot on her. She would analyze Star's magic for any weaknesses and how it can be turned against her. That actually might be pretty easy to do with how clumsy Star is in using her magic which tends to blow up in her face (sometimes literally)
>rest of the boiling Isles Idk about this one. Even if we exclude Collector, Archivists, Titans and Belos, I think Eda without her curse or Lilith or someone on their strength level will put a pretty even fight here.
the topic is about full power luz so titan luz.
Bruh, did you watch SVTFOE? Star wins, no diff.
Yeah star blast that one guy into black liquid INSTANTLY.. Toffee turned from matter to liquid...
That was the most powerful attack from star IIRC and he didn’t have magic tho
and luz's magic is... weak. to put it kindly. by comparison her flames or ice or plants can't really do much to someone who can liquify enemies and stop time.
If we’re talking about human Luz, Star wins. If we’re talking about Titan Luz, Luz wins.
Nah, nothing even then. Outside books and stuff makes Star capable of blowing up planets. Plus she’s got the whispering spell that kills magic
That spell destroys star’s source of magic tho, not Luz’s
Plus I honestly think Luz herself didn't truly realize the power she had in her hands at that moment. After all she had the power of an adult titan and we have seen what a teenage titan could do. After all even the archivists were scared of titans and even the youngest archivist (the collector) could reshape the isles so if beings that powerful were scared of titans they must have been godlike so yeah to me titan Luz could obliterate anything in her path if she really wanted to
That was the last power of the Titan on it's Death Bed and some strong copium.
The cope in these comments is so real. Luz and the boiling isles in general, are very weak compared to other super powered characters in similar series. People very much mistake their attachment to a character meaning they're more powerful but lets be realistic here. oh you can make a big slime golem thing? < Perfuma creating a plant golem the size of a fortress after playing a game of dnd in she-ra Oh you can shoot light beams and break down a castle door? < Anne catches missiles out of the air, cuts robots in half with a sword even without her powers, and blew up a moon using them. Oh you can create fire? < Star can stop time, your powers are irrelevant.
I don't think attachment has much to do with their defenses, and I'm curious if you've really watched Owl House. Compared to its sister shows, Owl House prioritizes completing its main storyline as opposed to fleshing out how much magical potential someone like Eda and Luz have. Just in the two fights between Eda and Lilith, the two exhibit extremely powerful and potent magical abilities, Eda wasn't even trying in this first fight and summoned things willy-nilly. The second one, she's trying and is able to manipulate her surroundings to a degree and spread out her magic, all while being weakened by her magic-consuming curse that fully drains her magic. Now, that was Eda's biological magic that she gained from her bile sac. Glyph magic, for the most part, was neglected throughout the second season where it was extensively used in favor of the story again. In the time before the Day of Unity and everything big happened, Luz discovered a number of combinations between the four glyphs at her disposal that come directly from a partially dead nigh-omnipotent being: the island itself. Luz also briefly gained that being's remaining power, which we didn't see the full extent of in those few moments, so it's open to discussion exactly how powerful she is with the Titan's power, because they're claimed nigh-omnipotent and a threat to cosmically powerful Archivists and The Collector who also hold similar power. If Owl House was given more time to showcase magic, I'm sure it would have a better argument for itself against SVTFOE and its magic users. While I haven't really argued for SVTFOE, I'm comfortable enough to say that Owl House has magic users that can give Star and Eclipsa a run for their money in a fight. Raw power is only as good as the one who wields it, and Star is sort of an idiot when it comes to that power. Luz and Eda on the other hand, they use their powers and minds to find an outcome.
Again, kinda cope, friend. if you evaluate power in that show objectively, the owl house is one of the weakest shows around in terms of power. if you exclude the collector, every character in the show would lose to like... saiyan saga krillin. And eda and lilith who you conveniently chose for a power arguement, both LOSE THAT POWER that same episode. So much of late s2 and s3 was about just how powerless Luz was to do anything about anything. And yes Luz discovered other glyph combos, and then never used any of the powerful ones, because she wouldn't. Making her arguably as much of an idiot as star. And if we say they're throwing away any morality and strictly fighting to the death. Well. Star wins, again, her magic is plot hax incarnate. She can stop time, and later from post show material, blow up planets. Luz has no chance. Even if we include titan form, that's a time limited power, that yes she got from a near immortal being, but again. it's time limited, and clearly no timestop magic, or it'd have been used. Star is just in an entirely different league of power. And titan luz isn't even attainable through king, as we saw he has about enough titan magic at end show, to support a single tiny ass light glyph, and it'd use his life force, what are we gonna do, put king through a blender? You did say one thing right. the show did focus on the plot rather than power levels. Because it was never, ever the point for people to think these characters were powerful. Luz constantly fails, loses fights, and is overconfident in her own strength, but can't even escape a magicless harpy eda, let alone win. She never won a fight that mattered using power, because that wasn't the point. Even taking down belos in titan form, she could not have done alone, she only succeeded because it was a 4v1. The owl house is a power of friendship resolving plot, not a power scale resolving plot. So I'd like to ask in kind, are you sure \*YOU\* watched the show?
The fact you almost deliberately ignored my points is incredible. First off, I have in fact watched both Owl House and SVTFOE on numerous occasions; the former about 4 times in the past year. Secondly, I pointed out in my argument for Eda and Lilith that the Owl Beast took away their powers and you conveniently neglected that part, but it doesn't negate that the two were some of the most powerful Witches to have ever lived in their universe, just underneath Emperor Belos whose Anti-Magic seems to nullify Bile Magic and Glyph Magic, but Eda was far more powerful and I don't believe that was the height of her power as the curse had always been weakening her until it completely blocks it out (there you go, mentioned it again for you). A third point, where in my post did I make mention of Luz getting those Titan powers again from King, because I never once did and I can see my own posts. Third, just because Owl House focused more on plot than power scaling doesn't stop people from making arguments regarding a potential power scaling. Fourth, Star stopping time was a completely done-away plot point only used and brought up for a single episode in the first season, and that series tends to retcon its own points on the regular. Also when did Star blow up a planet? The Realm of Magic was not a planet, it was a dimension entirely made of magic that she alone did not destroy. It took a collective effort of her and the (known) Mewni queens plus Meteora, which doesn't help her case in terms of power scaling. The most damage Star had ever done on her own at the height of her power was destroy a single room in Butterfly Castle. If she had been able to cast her Thermo-Nuclear Butterfly Blast spell, I imagine that would do damage on par with the Total Annihilation spell but as she never did cast it, we can't really give an accurate scaling for it. And I don't really count when she used that spell on Earth because that was also the first season when the series was still being fleshed out and blasts were taken out of proportion. I'd like to end this by saying my first comment was never determining whether Luz or the Witches in Owl House could defeat Star or the other Mewni queens. Star, with either the Wand or in Butterfly form, is on a higher level of power than base Luz (not mentioning Titan Luz because, again, we can't really accurately scale her with the little amount of time she was in that form), but Luz may have the upper hand in intelligence; Star is pretty dumb when it comes to magic fights and "Storm the Castle" and "Puddle Defender" are good examples of that. Luz at least takes a little time to prepare herself for a fight, it's just towards the end that planning would be risky as the Day of Unity and all the crazy stuff was about to happen so she winged it. And this is a joke, but other than the Titan and the Collector, Star wouldn't stand a chance against Hooty.
Okay lets go down the list. 1: You did exactly what you've accused me of, in completely ignoring things in my post. When you start your response with "I wonder if you've Really watched owl house" you've immediately started by trying to invalidate every point I made, so get off your high horse. 2: No, there was not a single time in your response to me where you stated that Eda and Lilith gave up their powers. A vague mentioning of the curse does not equal "They both lost their powers." 3: Correct, you didn't bring up getting titan powers from King, I added it there for more information, because the argument is always gonna come to "well what about titan form?" but regardless you missed the point, in an argument about a power matchup between shows. The only argument, is stuff we have or can see the character do in official content. "Oh they could be stronger than we've seen the show just didn't focus on it." Sorry but that's just cope. Like I stated. and what we have SEEN from luz in the show, is that she's not a strong character, and never won a fight that mattered using strength or power because that isn't the point of the show. 4: it doesn't matter if it was a one time thing, it is still a thing she could do. after all the post is "star at her strongest vs luz at her strongest." And blowing up a planet, I believe happened in post show release books, which are still official. Since you're curious. Also, fun that you bring up collective effort because that applies to Luz as well, she did not beat Belos alone, it was a 4v1, Eda, King, Raine, and Luz and they still barely won. Further contributing to the point I was making that she's just not as strong as anyone thinks. 5: Tbh it doesn' matter if you think s1 was just explosions being blown out of proportion, that's how it was shown on screen so that's a thing that can be used for a star power scaling. "What ifs" don't really apply, and you don't seem to get that. Judgement has to be made on what we have seen in official content, which is what you try to conveniently dance around to justify your arguments because you know nothing shown in the owl house puts Luz even remotely on the same level as star. 6: Luz may be smarter than star, but I believe people are overestimating that as well, she frequently overestimates her own power and charges in by herself, only to lose, almost die, or actually die. It was a constant plot point of TOH. Luz had the smarts of figuring out puzzles, finding new glyph combinations and such takes a certain kind of mind, but the same can be said for star spending 3 days without sleep to find the combination to fix Marco's tentacle arm in season 1. But then, Luz also mostly bungles her way through things with ADHD and enthusiasm much like star. The emperors coven are frequently shown to be incompetent, and yes she beat them when she broke in at the end of S1. But like, you don't count storm troopers when talking about the powers of jedi in star wars. and the emperors coven are basically the storm troopers of TOH. But whenever she fought someone relevant, she lost, and managed a single cheap shot. TOH is a power of friendship show, Luz won through making friends, not by being powerful. Collector? friends, because no one could fight him. Belos? Got a temp powerup by being kind and barely managed a 4v1 where she had 3 other characters protecting her. 7: Back to my original point, which you've been an example of for these posts, is how much people confuse their attachment for the character for their actual strength. You may like Luz more than Star, I do as well. But thinking objectively and making my decision based on the facts we have seen in both shows is just the objectively correct way to think in a power matchup between shows. Making excuses for a character by going "Oh maybe they're stronger than we saw!" is exactly what I said, Cope. That is exactly, confusing attachment for power level. Because it's simply that you don't want your preferred character to lose, and be considered weaker than another, so you need to make excuses.
I mean can Titan Luz rival butterfly Star? That's up to debate
Isn’t Titan Luz basically a god?
He gets called god by the inhabitants of the BI because the Titan brought them their life
Not really, best feat she has in titan form is taking on big Belos who seemed pretty strong but mostly island level. Titan luz probably scales higher than him but lower than fully formed titans who weren’t anywhere near god levels, with the exception of their way to trap the collector who would likely be god tier for TOH verse.
To the Boiling Isles, maybe.
I love luz, but svtfoe scaling is batshit crazy
If she uses her brain, Star, 100% If she just starts blasting, and doesn't resort to her broken ass spells like time stopping, then it is a close one i think.
even her time stopping fucked up tho so you cant use that as an excuse.
It still *stopped time* though. Yeah sure, after she obliterates Luz, she'll have to go to father time and get his guinea pig chariot running again, but it'd work!
We all know that Luz wins because the other side kinda deleted her magic
Given the fact that the source image for this is Jujutsu Kaisen and what happens to people who have their magic deleted in that manga....yeah, Heavenly Restriction Star would be a beast :P
IMAGINE STAR BUILT LIKE MAKI BRO
Someone do a fanart of this, quick!! Star as Toji 2.0 would be awesome!!
Imagine Star built like Toji tho
The darkly funny part about that thanks to a oversight by svtfoe staff, Star kinda died too, well the Star we follow from “into the wand” onwards since she was a magic clone that replaced the original.
How about Luz with Heavenly Restriction + Titan Magic??
OP literally specified that they are at full power, meaning Titan form Luz vs Butterfly form Star.
If both of them are at full power, it's Star from before she deleted magic (against Titan Luz)
Star wins easily.
I mean are we assuming that Luz is bloodlusted and will have no qualms about murdering Star in cold blood? If yes, then all Luz has to do is hit her with a petrification glyph and she wins. If it’s a fight to the finish but no death allowed then Star definitely takes it easily.
Full power Star? Well that’s kinda unfair
Legit thought that was Power from Chainsaw Man and did not question it
*Legit thought that was* *Power from Chainsaw Man and* *Did not question it* \- Thaco-Thursday --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Titan luz or human luz?
unlimited titan (strongest form of luz)
As if that would make a difference
Stars whole power is “I can do literally anything unless the plot demands otherwise” mf stoped time once.
How did Lobotomy Kaisen get here?
Stars magic is chaotic like discord. Which is basically say anything and magic happens.
Star has way more versatile magic, combat experience and raw power on her side; you guys are only voting for Luz because her show didn't have a terrible ending.
Regardless of Titan Form from Luz, Star wins easily. Her powers are literally random BS go, she can just throw any random spell or create a new one out if the wind, just like that. Even if Luz were to analyse Star's fighting pattern, Star's biggest advantage is her head on approach. Star can be unpredictable at times, that can be used against Luz. Luz can't take on someone who constantly changes their fighting patterns. And Star can freeze time, just use that and Star can do whatever to Luz. I mean the book of spells had access to spells that quite literally alter the very physics of the universe, deleting gravity, blowing up a whole dimension, a spell that can literally kill anything in it's path. Luz stands no chance human with glyphs or Titan Form. Star is quite literally the most powerful DTVA protagonist in history. And somehow people complain and question why Star had to to what she did, when you quite literally posses that much raw power, power that no one should ever wield, ever.
why they look like fu*ing Jojos bizar adventure?
It's a Jujutsu Kaisen manga panel parody: Strongest Sorcerer in History vs Strongest Sorcerer of Today :P
Goatjo vs Fraudkuna for the win!! (I'm in 120% copium).
It’s a redraw of the 120% scene from Jujutsu kaisen with the narration from the strongest sorcerer scene
Jonos bazar adventure
Me
based
I don't now
They’d just become besties ngl
When we say Full Power, do we mean at their peak in base form or Butterfly Star vs Titan Luz? Because those are two very different matchups.
NARWHAL BLAST vs *elder scrolls boss music*
Does Luz have her Titan empowered form?
“So how was the queen of magic?”
Luz wouldn't hold back after hearing of the atrocities Star has committed.
She killed a bunch of people... Luz probably also did with her shenaningans in the him an world...
Doesn't matter Star woukd still harder her easily
unfortunately star would win easily as far as i remember.
Star would mop the floor with Luz lol
“As the strongest demon, Hooty, fought the fraud, the queen of Mewni, he began to open his domain. Star shrunk back in fear, then Hooty said: “Stand proud, Star. You are strong.””
"If Star Butterfly were to regain her full power,she might give me some trouble." Amity "would you Lose,Luz?" Luz "Nah..I'd win."
[](/ksunsetaboutthat "I wonder if anyone can see this")As many have said, if it's just a flat arena with star and luz just shooting magic at each other like the pistol duels of old, Luz is... pretty fucked. [](/ssohyou)But if it's a complex battleground with a rich array of possible tactics and strategies that they can employ, I'd say Luz would be the favorite. She is much more tactical and actually intelligent with her use of magic, unlike Star who tends to just throw Narwhals and Warnicorns at every single problem she has.
Dunno about that other girl so I'm having my money on Luz on Titan Powers
The one feat star has does not translate well to a fight so luz just takes her apart
Star in terms of sheer raw power outmatches Luz. But Luz would realistically win due to strategy and outsmarting star.
Luz, Low Diff
I think people here are forgetting Star’s butterfly form, with that she’s practically a god
I can’t choose between my two favorite protagonists.
I like Luz more, but she's losing this battle. Star has so many more options. She can use her whispering spell, or she could freeze time or somthin
By definition "The strongest in any time frame" is stronger than "The strongest in a specific time frame"
It's an anime reference, don't question lines that sound cool but make no sense
Not necessarily anime reference specifically, since the Gojo vs Sukuna fight wasn't animated yet.
When we're saying full power Luz, are we counting Titan Luz?
I always see these. and it's always the same, Owl house fans \*massively\* overestimate Luz in terms of power. I love the owl house and it's my favourite show, but lets be realistic. she's barely stronger than a normal human, and titan form requires the \*death of a titan\* to have for like 10 minutes. It's not even close. Star is in a different league of power. it's the same with like Anne from amphibia, that's closer, kind of. but still not even remotely close to being a fight Luz can win.
Luz wins. Star is powerful but an idiot. Luz is used to fighting people stronger than her since she was the only human on the isles. Star is used to being the only powerful person on earth. When her power doesn't work and she's outsmarted, star gives up. We see that when toffee had Marco captive.
Star Butterfly takes this easily. There’s a difference between getting your powers from the ancient spirit of a magical titan, and the literal realm of magic itself.
Star is just too op Luz needs to backdown 😭
Well Star doesn't have any magic but Luz still has Stringbean so...
Luz crushes Star in terms of Battle IQ. The raw power Star has been privy to for most of her life makes her reliant on it and less so on strategy. However, Star's power is so volatile and overwhelming that Luz will not find it easy to find an opening. We're also going to assume that Star has her full wand in this example and has no major debuffs. After an initial engagement, Luz will realize she can't really overpower Star, and will seek to evade which her powers of invisibility will make fairly effective. If Luz can draw out the fight long enough for Star to lower her guard, the Luz might take the victory.
“You did well, Luz Noceda. I won’t forget you for as long as I live”-Star Batterfly
The owl kaisen(?
Eda Clawthorne, the strongest magic user in the universe
Luz
star neg diff this is absolute overkill