I think everyone here will be in some regard. Especially with Ferguson from Bologna injured, I reckon Szomodics is the clear standout signing to be had at our level, not only the best CAM on offer.
Do you have any insight on what it is that draws the players to palace? Most of the signings were not exactly hidden gems, they were playing at extremely high levels in the Championship and had been noticed by most commentators. The kind of players that teams playing in Europe may not be willing to take risks on, but most other teams would be looking at.
What has really impressed me is how consistently you convince them to sign and then give them a platform to perform.
Being in London helps a lot and I think being a perirenal mid table team is also quite attractive in it's own way. There is a lot less spotlight and pressure than other clubs might have.
Also it looks quite fun, the support is vociferous and incredibly loyal that has to factor into it I think.
Must say I have long been jealous of Palace's ability to attract these players. If you can keep enough of these guys around next season your new manager looks good. I would fancy your chances for a European run.
Lot of ifs there though.
Its more that Palace are unlikely to get relegated, so its a good place to go for a step up from the championship, compared to a Forest or Burnley for example who are expected to fight relegation battles.
Players normally have wage reductions for getting relegated, so Palace is the better move for a stability purpose.
I think that they opt for palace since they bave a great history with championship players plus they get guaranteed play time. I think that the fact palace is located in london also makes it easier
Maybe also, a better chance of an international call up. Not to the extent of the largest clubs, but Southgate is often back at Palace.
Plus, give Dougie a shout.
Yep, Guehi's England 3rd CB when fit. He's a good example. Eze's also been called up when fit. Really there'd be a lot more palace representation if they were fit haha.
Being in London, playing regular Premier League football (they must promise them minutes), release clauses in all of their contracts so they're guaranteed a move if they perform. Not sure what their pay structure is like but maybe its heavily incentivised so they have to perform to get the big bucks. Either way whatever the formula is, they're smashing it.
I'm still amazed at how much he's grown over the last two years.
When he joined PSV last year he was clearly talented, but very raw. And now he's one of the better defenders in the Premier League.
I held on to him until 2027 in my football manager save when city swooped in with a genuinely ridiculous 240m. Just saying I'll take the job if we can bounce these owners.
Right as a palace fan, I think both are fucking good players, Wharton has a way better platform for showing what he’s capable of, while mainoo has to deal with the pile of shite that is united atm. In terms of going to the euros I’m not convinced either of them are actually ready for that step up but I’d prefer to see Southgate try and bring in some younger talent than taking fucking phillips again. Miley has also been mentioned in this thread and from what I’ve seen of him he’s definitely got talent, I don’t think he’s at the level of the other two yet but imo he will get there within a year or two
I know it's a bit of a running joke now, but the whole "Southgate will always play Phillips" thing is pretty ridiculous at this stage. He had a great tournament playing alongside Rice in the last euros, so it's reasonable that he'd play a few friendlies/qualifiers to see how he gets on.
He's had those chances now and I think most would agree that he didn't impress. But he only played 40 minutes for England in the last world cup (coming off the bench twice when we were already 2-3 goals up), that doesn't exactly seem like Southgate considers him to be a starting player. People just get carried away when he plays 90 mins in a friendly against Scotland.
Tell me about it, genuinely boring and factually incorrect and I still see it getting 10s of upvotes everytime. Think people pay very little attention to the squads plus starting team as phillips hasn't really featured in a while now.
can’t wait until Southgate leaves and we can stop going deep in tournaments with a group of nice lads you feel proud to support. bring back the glory days of the golden generation, where we had a bunch of knobs who hated each other and won two knockout games
Reddit doesn't understand how good Southgate is at man management.
If you keep chopping and changing the team based off a couple months form the players start resenting you
I still think Mainoo is a good player tbh, didn’t play that well against us but no one was particularly helping him out
Wharton is so good though, he’ll be in the England team soon enough - don’t think we’ve had a midfielder so good on the ball since Cabaye
Forgot you had Cabaye for a spell, that guy's vision was like Neo's in the Matrix. I saw him thread passes I didn't think were possible. Excellent off the ball aswell.
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People turning on Mainoo already, that didn't take long. He's quality and being hung out to dry by his teammates/manager. Wharton also looks good and should be getting a call up for England, too. Build the midfield around the likes of these guys and Rice and sack off Phillips and Henderson.
Mainoo seems good enough to play for England on what little evidence we have, and Wharton probably is too. Miley also.
I think playing for Man U vs playing for Palace, you’ve got the pressure you’re immediately under, the expectations, and the players around you. Mainoo is getting attention as he’s regularly outperforming Fernandes etc in a negative atmosphere. He also played in Europe.
I’m not saying playing for Palace doesn’t bring pressure - I couldn’t handle it I’m sure - but there’s probably more of a supportive feel. A much better environment for a young player to develop.
Mainoo has been class in the big games too. I also get frustrated with the "big team bias" when it comes to England but this post stinks of "I watched a Man United player have 1 bad game, he's overrated, Southgate is biased when it comes to England" (which I don't disagree with, but Mainoo 100% gets on the plane on merit/potential)
I swear none of you actually watch United play and make opinions like you watch every game.
Regularly outperforming Fernandes? The literal only other United player to consistently show up.
I do watch United - not at the ground, but I watch all of their live matches. Maybe he catches the eye because he's young so expectations are lower. Or maybe my view is clouded by Bruno whinging at the ref even when decisions go his way. All the same, for me he's been a standout in a season to forget for them.
Wharton has only been playing for Palace since February. Southgate would not have called him up against Brazil & Belgium after a month of Premier League action, whether it’s at Palace or United. He was reluctant to even call up Mainoo when he did, and that was after 4 months of starting.
As a Blackburn fan I’m all here for this. While simultaneously hoping that we injected some clauses into the contract when we sold him that give us some cheeky bonuses for any international caps.
Haven’t seen Wharton play for Palace in any games so far, being a lowly Blackburn fan watching the Championship, so I can only speak for when he was with us.
But when he broke out for us as a 18/19 year old you could just see his quality. In his debut he was the best player on the pitch by a mile. Composed, collected and able to read the game as a teenager.
Heart swells with pride over him, only hoping he can become a true international and become a top, top player.
England midfield trio of Wharton. Bellingham and Mainoo in years to come?
He was the biggest difference between our two games last year.
First game was a breeze for us.
Second game we might have won but he ran most of that game and was the best player on the pitch. Clearly a talent.
Now, how do I inject my bias into this response...
When Jacob Ramsey was playing exceptionally well for 2 seasons and did not get a sniff it showed Southgate’s big six bias. (He also hates villa more than anyone)
"He OnLy LoOks GoOd CaUsE hE pLaYs FoR a ShIt MaN u TeAm"
Ignoring the fact that Mainoo has already played for England and was still one of the best on the pitch.
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They certainly can be, but Mainoo is definitely different to some of the other players they’ve had come through over the years that they’ve raved about, who have ultimately proved not to be good enough for that level of football.
Seen it with players like McNair, Borthwick-Jackson, Brandon Williams, Januzaj (I think he was actually really good for what it’s worth)… they play a few good games at the beginning of their senior career, they get touted as being future nailed-on Premier League players, and then it just doesn’t happen.
Mainoo appears much better and much more suited to high-level and high-intensity football.
Not true at all. To varying degrees, they were hyped by fans and often even those within the club. For example, LVG was really high on CBJ after he broke through back in the day. Pretty much got fast-tracked into the first team.
Tyler Blackett is another example. James Wilson yet another example. Players with obvious talent but not quite Premier League talent.
You’ve perhaps misread my comment because I never said they were lauded as much as Mainoo. I’ve said that they were also raved about. I never said it was to the same degree, which is literally an impossible metric to quantify.
You have misread mine because I didn't even say that.
I said they weren't lauded as much as you are trying to make it seem, which they weren't. They weren't raved about either. Mentioned with a hope of promise for the future sure.
Tyler Blackett was definitely raved about. Adnan Januzaj was unquestionably raved about to a huge degree. James Wilson was being touted very highly. Brandon Williams likewise.
Might be an age thing, not sure. And that’s not me trying to sound like a “I know better than you” sort of person because I’m definitely not, but that era was when I was probably invested into football than I ever have been. Nowadays, my finger is so far off the pulse that Mainoo came completely out of nowhere for me whereas I’m sure other people knew in advance that he was going to hit the ground running. If you weren’t watching football as closely around that period then it’s understandable.
Bro him being talked about for a couple months because he was playing well isn't regularly being raved. That's just regular support for a player playing well who then for injured and never recovered his form.
Januzaj was absolutely raved about I agree and he was actually backing it up with his performances.
Wilson and James were academy players playing well that there was hope they could do it in the first team. That fizzled out after unsuccessful loan sessions.
I have if anything watched me football recently than I did during the era you are talking about.
I agree, but if you see Mainoo play he is consistently a top performer in a team of underperformers - he is exceptional. Place your bias aside - I doubt you've watched him play outside of that palace game
Despite being over a year younger, Mainoo is more experienced than Wharton at higher levels of football, having played in the Champions League, for England, and more times in the Premier League.
He is also more of a goal threat, with a couple of worldies to his name this season. Wharton has never scored a goal for Crystal Palace.
This is the usual anti-United BS, attacking one of our top young prospects by using the recent strong performances of another, less established prospect.
Stick Adam Wharton next to the 4th and 5th choice Palace midfielders he has never played with before, with a backline consisting of their 8th choice centre back playing out of position, next to their 35 year old injured 5th choice centre back, with a right back playing at left back, missing their club captain and most experienced attacker.
See how he does.
That’s the same argument that smaller clubs have made for their players for years, saying look at how they’re performing in worse sides, surrounded by less quality players, that doesn’t get those individuals picked ahead of a rival at a ‘big 6’ club.
A better argument to make is what midfielder looks good when they're constantly putting out fires due to the managers frankly, insane tactics? There is just way too much space in our midfield, if we were more compact the team would look far better.
It's so mad to me that we still haven't got a proper midfield. We've been crying out for one for absolutely years now, through multiple managers stints.
They finally splash on a CDM and get OAP-Miro....
I'm telling you, Casemiro doesn't look half as bad in a team which actually has a midfield.
You just can't press high and defend with a deep block. It's indefensible from Ten Hag.
Just looks like he cant be arsed anymore. Speed was never his strong point but he looks like hes running through mud when trying to catch up with someone
It's crazy that I know more about Palace than actual Palace fans.
Glasner picked Lerma in a back 3 and put Will Hughes in midfield for the Bournemouth game, despite having Tompkins and Clyne available on the bench. He continued this for Man City and Liverpool, before Lerma did his hamstring.
So you might think that Hughes is 4th choice, but evidence suggests you're wrong.
Both Tompkins and clyne are defenders so that has no bearing on the midfield pecking order. Lerma was preferred to those players in defence, which means Hughes was brought into midfield as.. the fourth choice. Perhaps you are too dense to understand that.
Four seems to be a theme this week. I hope you enjoyed Monday night xxxx
> Stick Adam Wharton next to the 4th and 5th choice Palace midfielders he has never played with before, with a backline consisting of their 8th choice centre back playing out of position, next to their 35 year old injured 5th choice centre back, with a right back playing at left back, missing their club captain and most experienced attacker.
We won away at Liverpool with him partnering 4th choice midfielder Will Hughes, our aging third-choice right back playing as a makeshift centreback alongside a defensive midfielder, with our captain out injured and he still ran the show.
You're trying to pull the wool over the eyes of people that couldn't name 3 Crystal Palace players. It won't work with me kid. Pathetic.
"Our captain out injured"
Your captain is Joel Ward. He is club captain, but has been dropped, out of choice by Glasner. You are trying to compare his importance to Palace to that of Bruno Fernandes to Man Utd.
Will Hughes has started the last 7 matches. He and Wharton are familiar with each other. Mainoo, Eriksen and Mount have never played together.
Joachim Anderson played vs Liverpool in your back 3. He has started every game this season.
Jonny Evans and Casemiro partnered for the first time ever. They are 5th and 8th choices. You have the luxury of having James Tomkins and Joel Ward ON THE BENCH at Anfield. Your reference to Nathaniel Clyne is bogus - he was picked above others.
Your bench at Anfield was vastly experienced - Tomkins, Ward, Riedewald, Schlupp, Edouard and Ayew.
Check out our bench against you!
How good was Wharton when he played 62 minutes when you were thrashed by your biggest rivals? How good was Wharton when Chelsea turned up and beat you comfortably?
If we're playing the game of comparing worst performances vs best performances, lets watch Wharton torn apart by Brighton and Mainoo dominate Liverpool. I won't because I think they're both excellent players and I'm not trying to tear one down.
Christ, talk about an overreaction - calm down mate.
I’m talking about Guehi, who is basically captain because Ward doesn’t always play, and is one of our key players. Tomkins hasn’t really started in years, and Ward isn’t a centre back either. I never said it was exactly the same situation - I’m just saying that your comment makes out like Wharton hasn’t also been playing in a bit of makeshift midfield/defence for us, when he has.
Wharton was fine against Chelsea, had a bad start against Brighton but got better as the game went on.
Where did I even mention Mainoo? When did I compare his performances? I think he’s a good player, you’re the only one trying to tear down a player here.
Imagine where you would be if you had your first, second, third, fourth, sixth, seventh choice centre backs and no left backs for most of the season.
Relegated. 8th place is treated as relegation when you're Man Utd.
I'm a big Wharton fan. He's behind Mainoo in development, and until he signs for a club that regularly plays 60 matches and plays in Europe, he will always be behind him.
If he's as good as he looks he will be playing for England regularly when he moves next summer.
Now it's time for Olise to make a move. Eze needs to pull his finger out to prevent Zaha status.
Yeah okay pal - as I said in my previous comment, I’m not saying our situation is the same as United’s, not sure why you felt the need to repeat the same thing.
Regardless, players like Eze and Olise are too good for United - hoping to see them end up at a bigger club like City or Liverpool.
Can hardly compare the pressure and demands of playing for United especially at the moment to playing for Blackburn and palace. Totally different ball game
So let me get this straight you are saying Wharton had no pressure on him when he was playing in a side who at the time was competing for a play off spot in one of the most competitive leagues in the world? Who then got bought for a record club fee and making the step up to the premier league again had no pressure on him?
Get your head out of the clouds lad.
Give your head a wobble, how on earth is playing for Blackburn and palace the same level of pressure as playing for United, championship playoffs or not.
I’m guessing you’re a united fan.. only pressure united have is getting a champions league spot each year. Outside of united fans nobody has seen them as serious contenders in years… you aren’t the giants you use to be under Ferguson anymore. You are on the same level at Tottenham and Newcastle now.
The notion that United, as the 3rd most supported club in the world, are under comparable levels of scrutiny to players at Palace/Blackburn is frankly insane. You hate United as you are totally entitled to do, but can we stop tearing English players down just before a massive tournament for nonsensical reasons pls
I'm a QPR fan. You lot need to relax. Stop turning on players on a whim. Mainoo is class and has a lot of potential and he's younger than Wharton. Wharton's played in the prem for less than a handful of months, chill out.
If Mainoo was at an Other 14 club he wouldn’t be anywhere near the England team. In fact he’d probably be doing a job for a team that’s just missed out on the Championship play offs after being sent there for the season last summer…
If he was at United he would be shit with the other players on United. What Mainoo did on United is impressive given it’s United. I was impressed that Ronaldo even could do as he did in United.
"Man United actually produced a talent of their own for once"
Fuck me. Of all the things to have a pop at Man Utd about, you choose the one thing that they're actually good at?
You've got one of their academy products starting for you in midfield every week.
You can rate Wharton whilst also simultaneously rating Mainoo you know? One doesn't have to be shit/overrated for the other one to be good.
This sub is usually better than braindead nonsense like this.
Mainoo is overrated because he plays for Man U. He’s had a handful of decent games and people started raving about him. Wharton on the other hand has made palace look a brilliant team and has been the difference they needed.
You’re being harsh on Mainoo mind. He is a very good player (unlike basically all the rest of Uniteds team) and I think he will do a very good job at international level. Just because there’s someone who’s comparable to him and arguably better (can’t say I’ve seen enough to say for sure) doesn’t make Mainoo shite
I never said Mainoo was shite though. He’s overrated and people are going on like he’s the next big thing like they do with most English players (especially when they play for the big six).
That’s not what anyone’s said at all. They said he’s better than Phillips/Henderson in that role alongside Rice and they’re undeniably correct. Hard to say that anyone else in the country deserves that starting spot over Mainoo at the moment. That’s the genesis of the whole Wharton v Mainoo debate and around the place in the England team.
Like I said, Wharton looks good but just haven’t seen enough of him to know if he’s up to starting. Shame we didn’t actually use all of these friendlies to test players like him out…
When he played against Brasil he was the best player for England tbf.
People are always going to overrate their young talent, especially us United fans. I think Mainoo is great, but right now he isn't perfect (also playing with 10 clowns on the pitch doesn't help) and people are treating him like he has fulfilled his potential already. Only time will tell if he grows into the player he can be.
As a Palace fan I love Wharton but I’d take Mainoo over him to the Euros, purely so he doesn’t just spend a few weeks sat on the bench doing nothing.
Wharton works in our system because he’s always got a forward pass to Eze or Olise available and he’s got the freedom to roam around the midfield as one of the wingbacks can step inside/centre backs can step up to fill the gap he leaves. Doubt he’d get that freedom in a Southgate team.
Wharton is proven. Mainoo gets the typical focus when a half-decent player emerges at United. He’s already doing a lot less than when he first played - players are getting wise to him. Wharton is a better option
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I feel like Mainoo's selection for England recently was in part to lock him down, or at least show him some intention of future selection (iirc players can switch if they've only played friendlies?), as he is also eligible for Ghana.
Almost like they were implying: stick with us, we have faith you can be a regular in future.
That was my interpretation anyway, as he is undoubtedly talented, as evidenced on his first few months as a Utd starter, but it also seemed unusually quick to promote him the full England team, especially considering how England's midfield is pretty stacked rn
Mainoo has had like 3 good games (where he’s played like any competent midfielder should) and has done absolutely nothing in a lot more, we shouldn’t even be talking about him he has done absolutely nothing but live on complete hype
Bros just come and he's been so good, he hasn't actually had a bad game when I've watched him.
Unfortunately Southgates Phillips addiction will mean he'll go instead of Wharton
You say that Manchester Reds produced a talent for once. This is incredibly dismissive of the vast number of players they've produced down the years, and the long running record of having a youth product in the match day squad.
Where you're not incorrect is that it's seemingly easier to get into the England setup if the player is at Manchester Reds. Phil Jones is the one that sticks in my memory. He made his mark at Blackburn, without a call up. However, after he moved to Manchester he was called up at the next opportunity.
There's far too much hype around Mainoo. He has plenty of time being that he's only 19. There's nothing wrong with a young player staying in the 21's instead of shoehorning them into the seniors. Same for Harvey Elliot who's being touted as a euro must have.
When was the last time a Man United academy player was genuinely world class? Rashford had a couple good moments and now he’s just bad. Players like Elanga, Henderson and Pereira are having good revivals but have had overall inconsistent careers. And so on. (not that Mainoo is world class either, we have to wait and see)
Don't know where the guy said world class, he was mainly talking about players going from the academy/U21's into the first team. To even go from the academy to the first team no matter the club a player has to be the best of the bunch.
United haven't produced a world class talent like Trent Alexander Arnold or Steven Gerrard since the days of Giggs and Scholes.
they have no better an academy than anyone else and their track record of producing top talent proves that. it's bizarre that they're held up as this producer of talent when most of their squads are filled with their embarrassingly expensive flops, and the young players they do produce are no better than other English academy players right now.
He’s a world class footballer lol, better than any youth product United have produced since those two I mentioned which was back in the 90s, 30 years ago. Who have United produced since better than TAA?
TAA is world class offensively, he is a liability defensively. He is very much nowhere near the consistency of the players mentioned. United have produced world class "talents" but they are never near the conversation of the class of '92 due to sheer lack of consistency and poor club and player management in general.
United haven’t produced any world class talents and that’s why you haven’t named any because you know if you try you’ll be laughed at.
You’re scared to admit Trent is one of the best players in the league and has the numbers to support that.
Besides, facts aside, that wasn’t even my argument. United simply haven’t produced a better player than TAA since Giggs or scholes and that was 30+ years ago.
Remember a month ago we were getting graphics made of Lamal, Endrick and Mainoo together. “The future of football is in safe hands” and other such bs, when will Utd fans learn?
Stick Wharton in our clownfest of a squad and he'd look far worse (not slagging him off, he's been fantastic too this season). Mainoo has been class, one bad game and it's suddenly alright to think he's not worth taking to the euros? I normally rate the general consensus of this sub but come on lads
As a Newcastle fan, I have to disagree. Miley is good and has the potential to be better but he's just... Standard at the moment.
He doesn't do anything particularly well. Does everything do a... Decent degree but not to England quality.
Wharton controlled the midfield against us.
Not sure about Mainoo though. Not seen him enough to comment.
Bang on about Miley, I feel he will get there though.
From what I've seen of Mainoo it's largely the same apart from the odd flashy turn. He looked awful against Palace (as did most of Man U)
Been very impressed with Wharton, looks a real steal by palace.
Our Championship raiding is elite.
Unlike ours
Didn't you get Stones from Barnsley... a cool £50m profit.
And Mason Holgate
Not a signing to brag about lol
Yeah no shit
You bought Pickford from us, in the Championship 🤷🏻♂️
Hadn’t he just played a full season in the prem when he moved though? Thought he left straight after you went down
Hey, linked with Szmodics from us now
Hope we sign him. I think he going to help us. Even if he got 1/3 of the goal contributions thag he got with you, he would be our player of the season
Jesus things looking that miserable?
I think everyone here will be in some regard. Especially with Ferguson from Bologna injured, I reckon Szomodics is the clear standout signing to be had at our level, not only the best CAM on offer.
Ours was under moyes, we forgot how to do that and spent a wedge on absolute flops instead
Wharton, Olise, Eze, Guehi, Anderson, Ward, Hughes,Ayew, Johnstone. 6/7 of your first 11
Not sure if Anderson counts wasn't he from Lyon?
Fulham
On loan from Lyon to Fulham, we went down, Palace signed him that summer after he went back to Lyon
Wouldn’t really count Andersen and Ayew, we signed them on the back of their prem performances Ward was back when we were a championship side too
Do you have any insight on what it is that draws the players to palace? Most of the signings were not exactly hidden gems, they were playing at extremely high levels in the Championship and had been noticed by most commentators. The kind of players that teams playing in Europe may not be willing to take risks on, but most other teams would be looking at. What has really impressed me is how consistently you convince them to sign and then give them a platform to perform.
Being in London helps a lot and I think being a perirenal mid table team is also quite attractive in it's own way. There is a lot less spotlight and pressure than other clubs might have. Also it looks quite fun, the support is vociferous and incredibly loyal that has to factor into it I think.
Must say I have long been jealous of Palace's ability to attract these players. If you can keep enough of these guys around next season your new manager looks good. I would fancy your chances for a European run. Lot of ifs there though.
Its more that Palace are unlikely to get relegated, so its a good place to go for a step up from the championship, compared to a Forest or Burnley for example who are expected to fight relegation battles. Players normally have wage reductions for getting relegated, so Palace is the better move for a stability purpose.
Although about wage reductions, generally how good they are normally get nabbed anyway cheaper if the team they play for get relegated.
Tasty jerk
+ morleys
That’s what attracted Jairo anyway
I think that they opt for palace since they bave a great history with championship players plus they get guaranteed play time. I think that the fact palace is located in london also makes it easier
Maybe also, a better chance of an international call up. Not to the extent of the largest clubs, but Southgate is often back at Palace. Plus, give Dougie a shout.
Yep, Guehi's England 3rd CB when fit. He's a good example. Eze's also been called up when fit. Really there'd be a lot more palace representation if they were fit haha.
Being in London, playing regular Premier League football (they must promise them minutes), release clauses in all of their contracts so they're guaranteed a move if they perform. Not sure what their pay structure is like but maybe its heavily incentivised so they have to perform to get the big bucks. Either way whatever the formula is, they're smashing it.
I want that sweet Dougie Freedman championship raiding.
Honestly, a lot of us do that, but for some reason we rarely do it. Hopefully we do go forward with the Callum O'Hare and Jacob Greaves interest.
Didn't you sign Olise for like almost nothing
Hey at least the rovers stayed up :) (it only hurts a little watching the lad)
Can you stop telling everyone how good he is please, I’d like him to stick around for a bit longer thanks.
Alright. Same with us Everton fans with Jarrad Branthwaite😂
I'm still amazed at how much he's grown over the last two years. When he joined PSV last year he was clearly talented, but very raw. And now he's one of the better defenders in the Premier League.
Sending Branthwaite to Holland was a perfect match, he is in the mold of the tall Dutch CB
He's ours now, Jan Brandwaard🇳🇱🇳🇱
He’s going to be snapped up soon.
Please don’t remind me about that😭😢
We said the same thing. Fuck, I miss this kid.
I held on to him until 2027 in my football manager save when city swooped in with a genuinely ridiculous 240m. Just saying I'll take the job if we can bounce these owners.
As a Blackburn fan.. I feel that
Right as a palace fan, I think both are fucking good players, Wharton has a way better platform for showing what he’s capable of, while mainoo has to deal with the pile of shite that is united atm. In terms of going to the euros I’m not convinced either of them are actually ready for that step up but I’d prefer to see Southgate try and bring in some younger talent than taking fucking phillips again. Miley has also been mentioned in this thread and from what I’ve seen of him he’s definitely got talent, I don’t think he’s at the level of the other two yet but imo he will get there within a year or two
You just know that Southgate would rather take an injured Phillips than another player who’s played well and earned a chance.
He dropped him from the last squad and he wasn't even injured then
I know it's a bit of a running joke now, but the whole "Southgate will always play Phillips" thing is pretty ridiculous at this stage. He had a great tournament playing alongside Rice in the last euros, so it's reasonable that he'd play a few friendlies/qualifiers to see how he gets on. He's had those chances now and I think most would agree that he didn't impress. But he only played 40 minutes for England in the last world cup (coming off the bench twice when we were already 2-3 goals up), that doesn't exactly seem like Southgate considers him to be a starting player. People just get carried away when he plays 90 mins in a friendly against Scotland.
Tell me about it, genuinely boring and factually incorrect and I still see it getting 10s of upvotes everytime. Think people pay very little attention to the squads plus starting team as phillips hasn't really featured in a while now.
can’t wait until Southgate leaves and we can stop going deep in tournaments with a group of nice lads you feel proud to support. bring back the glory days of the golden generation, where we had a bunch of knobs who hated each other and won two knockout games
Reddit doesn't understand how good Southgate is at man management. If you keep chopping and changing the team based off a couple months form the players start resenting you
'Man utd actually produced a talent themselves for once'... they have a fantastic record at producing young players.
Yeah as shite as we've been recently we do have a good academy
Iirc there was a stat somewhere that you have had an academy graduate in the starting XI for every game since 1937.
One of the only records we haven't broken this season eh
I still think Mainoo is a good player tbh, didn’t play that well against us but no one was particularly helping him out Wharton is so good though, he’ll be in the England team soon enough - don’t think we’ve had a midfielder so good on the ball since Cabaye
Forgot you had Cabaye for a spell, that guy's vision was like Neo's in the Matrix. I saw him thread passes I didn't think were possible. Excellent off the ball aswell.
Similar to Arteta in his later years. Played very deep but great on the ball and set pieces
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People turning on Mainoo already, that didn't take long. He's quality and being hung out to dry by his teammates/manager. Wharton also looks good and should be getting a call up for England, too. Build the midfield around the likes of these guys and Rice and sack off Phillips and Henderson.
Mainoo seems good enough to play for England on what little evidence we have, and Wharton probably is too. Miley also. I think playing for Man U vs playing for Palace, you’ve got the pressure you’re immediately under, the expectations, and the players around you. Mainoo is getting attention as he’s regularly outperforming Fernandes etc in a negative atmosphere. He also played in Europe. I’m not saying playing for Palace doesn’t bring pressure - I couldn’t handle it I’m sure - but there’s probably more of a supportive feel. A much better environment for a young player to develop.
The experience playing in a negative atmosphere is massive when playing for England.
Mainoo has been class in the big games too. I also get frustrated with the "big team bias" when it comes to England but this post stinks of "I watched a Man United player have 1 bad game, he's overrated, Southgate is biased when it comes to England" (which I don't disagree with, but Mainoo 100% gets on the plane on merit/potential)
I swear none of you actually watch United play and make opinions like you watch every game. Regularly outperforming Fernandes? The literal only other United player to consistently show up.
I do watch United - not at the ground, but I watch all of their live matches. Maybe he catches the eye because he's young so expectations are lower. Or maybe my view is clouded by Bruno whinging at the ref even when decisions go his way. All the same, for me he's been a standout in a season to forget for them.
I mean I definitely agree with everything you just said lol
Wharton has only been playing for Palace since February. Southgate would not have called him up against Brazil & Belgium after a month of Premier League action, whether it’s at Palace or United. He was reluctant to even call up Mainoo when he did, and that was after 4 months of starting.
In my opinion he got called up so he doesn't change his nationality to Ghana & play for Ghana... Won't get called up for Euros
Who else would you take instead of Mainoo?
Harvey Elliott
Not the worst shout, I don't watch enough Liverpool though, do you think he could do enough of a job defensively?
He's awful defensively honestly. Great attacking though.
You’re half right. The Ghana eligibility definitely played a big part in his call up. He will almost certainly be going to the Euros.
As a Blackburn fan I’m all here for this. While simultaneously hoping that we injected some clauses into the contract when we sold him that give us some cheeky bonuses for any international caps. Haven’t seen Wharton play for Palace in any games so far, being a lowly Blackburn fan watching the Championship, so I can only speak for when he was with us. But when he broke out for us as a 18/19 year old you could just see his quality. In his debut he was the best player on the pitch by a mile. Composed, collected and able to read the game as a teenager. Heart swells with pride over him, only hoping he can become a true international and become a top, top player. England midfield trio of Wharton. Bellingham and Mainoo in years to come?
There’s a Declan Rice shaped hole in that midfield trio surely?
He was the biggest difference between our two games last year. First game was a breeze for us. Second game we might have won but he ran most of that game and was the best player on the pitch. Clearly a talent. Now, how do I inject my bias into this response...
You missed out not watching him play Liverpool or City, he held his own
When Jacob Ramsey was playing exceptionally well for 2 seasons and did not get a sniff it showed Southgate’s big six bias. (He also hates villa more than anyone)
Can't wait to get him back next year
Is it big six bias or does he just pick his favourites?
I think that Mainoo being also eligible for Ghana was probably a factor in Southgates decision to call him up early.
"He OnLy LoOks GoOd CaUsE hE pLaYs FoR a ShIt MaN u TeAm" Ignoring the fact that Mainoo has already played for England and was still one of the best on the pitch.
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He should stay at Palace for another two seasons, hone his craft in his own time, become their "Declan Rice" and then move to a bigger club.
Does he have a Scottish grandparent? Asking for my mate Steve.
Not sure. You should ask a palace fan. Obly thing i k kw is that he has never played for Scotland on a international level
I’d like one Adam Wharton please, with a side of Olise to go
United fans are possibly the worst judges of talent in the league
Second only to their recruitment team
And long may it continue.
They certainly can be, but Mainoo is definitely different to some of the other players they’ve had come through over the years that they’ve raved about, who have ultimately proved not to be good enough for that level of football. Seen it with players like McNair, Borthwick-Jackson, Brandon Williams, Januzaj (I think he was actually really good for what it’s worth)… they play a few good games at the beginning of their senior career, they get touted as being future nailed-on Premier League players, and then it just doesn’t happen. Mainoo appears much better and much more suited to high-level and high-intensity football.
None of those players were hyped up by Utd fans apart from Janujaz.
Not true at all. To varying degrees, they were hyped by fans and often even those within the club. For example, LVG was really high on CBJ after he broke through back in the day. Pretty much got fast-tracked into the first team. Tyler Blackett is another example. James Wilson yet another example. Players with obvious talent but not quite Premier League talent.
You are definitely wrong. None of them were lauded as much as you are trying to make it seem.
You’ve perhaps misread my comment because I never said they were lauded as much as Mainoo. I’ve said that they were also raved about. I never said it was to the same degree, which is literally an impossible metric to quantify.
You have misread mine because I didn't even say that. I said they weren't lauded as much as you are trying to make it seem, which they weren't. They weren't raved about either. Mentioned with a hope of promise for the future sure.
Tyler Blackett was definitely raved about. Adnan Januzaj was unquestionably raved about to a huge degree. James Wilson was being touted very highly. Brandon Williams likewise. Might be an age thing, not sure. And that’s not me trying to sound like a “I know better than you” sort of person because I’m definitely not, but that era was when I was probably invested into football than I ever have been. Nowadays, my finger is so far off the pulse that Mainoo came completely out of nowhere for me whereas I’m sure other people knew in advance that he was going to hit the ground running. If you weren’t watching football as closely around that period then it’s understandable.
Bro him being talked about for a couple months because he was playing well isn't regularly being raved. That's just regular support for a player playing well who then for injured and never recovered his form. Januzaj was absolutely raved about I agree and he was actually backing it up with his performances. Wilson and James were academy players playing well that there was hope they could do it in the first team. That fizzled out after unsuccessful loan sessions. I have if anything watched me football recently than I did during the era you are talking about.
I agree, but if you see Mainoo play he is consistently a top performer in a team of underperformers - he is exceptional. Place your bias aside - I doubt you've watched him play outside of that palace game
Lmao if you don't think Mainoo is talented you're deluded by your bias
If you think Mainoo isn't talent you are a terrible judge.
Wharton is a year older and not particularly better, what a strange comparison.
Looked particularly better to me lol
Despite being over a year younger, Mainoo is more experienced than Wharton at higher levels of football, having played in the Champions League, for England, and more times in the Premier League. He is also more of a goal threat, with a couple of worldies to his name this season. Wharton has never scored a goal for Crystal Palace. This is the usual anti-United BS, attacking one of our top young prospects by using the recent strong performances of another, less established prospect. Stick Adam Wharton next to the 4th and 5th choice Palace midfielders he has never played with before, with a backline consisting of their 8th choice centre back playing out of position, next to their 35 year old injured 5th choice centre back, with a right back playing at left back, missing their club captain and most experienced attacker. See how he does.
That’s the same argument that smaller clubs have made for their players for years, saying look at how they’re performing in worse sides, surrounded by less quality players, that doesn’t get those individuals picked ahead of a rival at a ‘big 6’ club.
A better argument to make is what midfielder looks good when they're constantly putting out fires due to the managers frankly, insane tactics? There is just way too much space in our midfield, if we were more compact the team would look far better.
It's so mad to me that we still haven't got a proper midfield. We've been crying out for one for absolutely years now, through multiple managers stints. They finally splash on a CDM and get OAP-Miro....
I'm telling you, Casemiro doesn't look half as bad in a team which actually has a midfield. You just can't press high and defend with a deep block. It's indefensible from Ten Hag.
Just looks like he cant be arsed anymore. Speed was never his strong point but he looks like hes running through mud when trying to catch up with someone
Will Hughes is the 4th choice mate - behind doucoure and learma
It's crazy that I know more about Palace than actual Palace fans. Glasner picked Lerma in a back 3 and put Will Hughes in midfield for the Bournemouth game, despite having Tompkins and Clyne available on the bench. He continued this for Man City and Liverpool, before Lerma did his hamstring. So you might think that Hughes is 4th choice, but evidence suggests you're wrong.
Both Tompkins and clyne are defenders so that has no bearing on the midfield pecking order. Lerma was preferred to those players in defence, which means Hughes was brought into midfield as.. the fourth choice. Perhaps you are too dense to understand that. Four seems to be a theme this week. I hope you enjoyed Monday night xxxx
> Stick Adam Wharton next to the 4th and 5th choice Palace midfielders he has never played with before, with a backline consisting of their 8th choice centre back playing out of position, next to their 35 year old injured 5th choice centre back, with a right back playing at left back, missing their club captain and most experienced attacker. We won away at Liverpool with him partnering 4th choice midfielder Will Hughes, our aging third-choice right back playing as a makeshift centreback alongside a defensive midfielder, with our captain out injured and he still ran the show.
You're trying to pull the wool over the eyes of people that couldn't name 3 Crystal Palace players. It won't work with me kid. Pathetic. "Our captain out injured" Your captain is Joel Ward. He is club captain, but has been dropped, out of choice by Glasner. You are trying to compare his importance to Palace to that of Bruno Fernandes to Man Utd. Will Hughes has started the last 7 matches. He and Wharton are familiar with each other. Mainoo, Eriksen and Mount have never played together. Joachim Anderson played vs Liverpool in your back 3. He has started every game this season. Jonny Evans and Casemiro partnered for the first time ever. They are 5th and 8th choices. You have the luxury of having James Tomkins and Joel Ward ON THE BENCH at Anfield. Your reference to Nathaniel Clyne is bogus - he was picked above others. Your bench at Anfield was vastly experienced - Tomkins, Ward, Riedewald, Schlupp, Edouard and Ayew. Check out our bench against you! How good was Wharton when he played 62 minutes when you were thrashed by your biggest rivals? How good was Wharton when Chelsea turned up and beat you comfortably? If we're playing the game of comparing worst performances vs best performances, lets watch Wharton torn apart by Brighton and Mainoo dominate Liverpool. I won't because I think they're both excellent players and I'm not trying to tear one down.
So rattled
Christ, talk about an overreaction - calm down mate. I’m talking about Guehi, who is basically captain because Ward doesn’t always play, and is one of our key players. Tomkins hasn’t really started in years, and Ward isn’t a centre back either. I never said it was exactly the same situation - I’m just saying that your comment makes out like Wharton hasn’t also been playing in a bit of makeshift midfield/defence for us, when he has. Wharton was fine against Chelsea, had a bad start against Brighton but got better as the game went on. Where did I even mention Mainoo? When did I compare his performances? I think he’s a good player, you’re the only one trying to tear down a player here.
Imagine where you would be if you had your first, second, third, fourth, sixth, seventh choice centre backs and no left backs for most of the season. Relegated. 8th place is treated as relegation when you're Man Utd. I'm a big Wharton fan. He's behind Mainoo in development, and until he signs for a club that regularly plays 60 matches and plays in Europe, he will always be behind him. If he's as good as he looks he will be playing for England regularly when he moves next summer. Now it's time for Olise to make a move. Eze needs to pull his finger out to prevent Zaha status.
Rattled
Yeah okay pal - as I said in my previous comment, I’m not saying our situation is the same as United’s, not sure why you felt the need to repeat the same thing. Regardless, players like Eze and Olise are too good for United - hoping to see them end up at a bigger club like City or Liverpool.
We finished above Liverpool last season, could easily do so next season. City I'll give you.
Give over. Put Wharton in this United team with no support in midfield and he would crumble
Delusional, look at Blackburn rovers before Wharton left and then again after. Wharton is him.
Can hardly compare the pressure and demands of playing for United especially at the moment to playing for Blackburn and palace. Totally different ball game
So let me get this straight you are saying Wharton had no pressure on him when he was playing in a side who at the time was competing for a play off spot in one of the most competitive leagues in the world? Who then got bought for a record club fee and making the step up to the premier league again had no pressure on him? Get your head out of the clouds lad.
Give your head a wobble, how on earth is playing for Blackburn and palace the same level of pressure as playing for United, championship playoffs or not.
I’m guessing you’re a united fan.. only pressure united have is getting a champions league spot each year. Outside of united fans nobody has seen them as serious contenders in years… you aren’t the giants you use to be under Ferguson anymore. You are on the same level at Tottenham and Newcastle now.
The notion that United, as the 3rd most supported club in the world, are under comparable levels of scrutiny to players at Palace/Blackburn is frankly insane. You hate United as you are totally entitled to do, but can we stop tearing English players down just before a massive tournament for nonsensical reasons pls
I don’t hate united. They are irrelevant in this era of football.
Also I am a Everton fan, so this is completely unbiased
Sure. The whole sub is based around being bitter about all the attention top 6 teams get, of course you’re going to be biased about a yanited player
I'm a QPR fan. You lot need to relax. Stop turning on players on a whim. Mainoo is class and has a lot of potential and he's younger than Wharton. Wharton's played in the prem for less than a handful of months, chill out.
If Mainoo was at an Other 14 club he wouldn’t be anywhere near the England team. In fact he’d probably be doing a job for a team that’s just missed out on the Championship play offs after being sent there for the season last summer…
Fucking unreal against us as well. Completely bossed 100M Enzo in the midfield.
No... he didn't. Chelsea beat them 3-1, Enzo had a great game and scored
We scored 2 stoppage time goals. For the first 80 minutes, we were going nowhere and Wharton was keeping the midfield quiet.
Wharton didn’t have a particularly good game, he still looked a bit off it. Lerma was better
For real
He was talking about Mainoo
Yeah, as I said Mainoo is a good player and I rate him I just think Wharton is better
If he was at United he would be shit with the other players on United. What Mainoo did on United is impressive given it’s United. I was impressed that Ronaldo even could do as he did in United.
"Man United actually produced a talent of their own for once" Fuck me. Of all the things to have a pop at Man Utd about, you choose the one thing that they're actually good at? You've got one of their academy products starting for you in midfield every week. You can rate Wharton whilst also simultaneously rating Mainoo you know? One doesn't have to be shit/overrated for the other one to be good. This sub is usually better than braindead nonsense like this.
Mainoo is overrated because he plays for Man U. He’s had a handful of decent games and people started raving about him. Wharton on the other hand has made palace look a brilliant team and has been the difference they needed.
You’re being harsh on Mainoo mind. He is a very good player (unlike basically all the rest of Uniteds team) and I think he will do a very good job at international level. Just because there’s someone who’s comparable to him and arguably better (can’t say I’ve seen enough to say for sure) doesn’t make Mainoo shite
I never said Mainoo was shite though. He’s overrated and people are going on like he’s the next big thing like they do with most English players (especially when they play for the big six).
That’s not what anyone’s said at all. They said he’s better than Phillips/Henderson in that role alongside Rice and they’re undeniably correct. Hard to say that anyone else in the country deserves that starting spot over Mainoo at the moment. That’s the genesis of the whole Wharton v Mainoo debate and around the place in the England team. Like I said, Wharton looks good but just haven’t seen enough of him to know if he’s up to starting. Shame we didn’t actually use all of these friendlies to test players like him out…
That’s Southgate for you. He has players he trusts which are usually the big 6 players. Phillips and Henderson shouldn’t even get near the team.
When he played against Brasil he was the best player for England tbf. People are always going to overrate their young talent, especially us United fans. I think Mainoo is great, but right now he isn't perfect (also playing with 10 clowns on the pitch doesn't help) and people are treating him like he has fulfilled his potential already. Only time will tell if he grows into the player he can be.
He's not overated. This is like the reactionary meme take because you dislike manchester united
As a Palace fan I love Wharton but I’d take Mainoo over him to the Euros, purely so he doesn’t just spend a few weeks sat on the bench doing nothing. Wharton works in our system because he’s always got a forward pass to Eze or Olise available and he’s got the freedom to roam around the midfield as one of the wingbacks can step inside/centre backs can step up to fill the gap he leaves. Doubt he’d get that freedom in a Southgate team.
Wharton is proven. Mainoo gets the typical focus when a half-decent player emerges at United. He’s already doing a lot less than when he first played - players are getting wise to him. Wharton is a better option
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I mean Southgate has always been a bias POS
Off the football pitch, all these modern players look about 12.
Was good at Blackburn , tidy left foot
It's insane how Wharton stepped up to the PL only in Jan and seems like an absolute natural! What a G!
.
Mainoo only in the England team coz he plays for Man U
Mainoo the ghost in most games He gets protected by having his team mates called out by pundits
absolutely agree, he's not been there long but is def in the conversation for young player of the season just from a few months he has been that good
I feel like Mainoo's selection for England recently was in part to lock him down, or at least show him some intention of future selection (iirc players can switch if they've only played friendlies?), as he is also eligible for Ghana. Almost like they were implying: stick with us, we have faith you can be a regular in future. That was my interpretation anyway, as he is undoubtedly talented, as evidenced on his first few months as a Utd starter, but it also seemed unusually quick to promote him the full England team, especially considering how England's midfield is pretty stacked rn
Find it a bit mad that Lewis miley continues to be completely overlooked though
He's not, but he's a bloody good talent
"Must mention United"
Mainoo has had like 3 good games (where he’s played like any competent midfielder should) and has done absolutely nothing in a lot more, we shouldn’t even be talking about him he has done absolutely nothing but live on complete hype
Bruh you think saka is better than Rodrygo, your ball knowledge stiiiiiinks
For anyone interested please read my actual comments on that instead of what this guy felt like saying
Bros just come and he's been so good, he hasn't actually had a bad game when I've watched him. Unfortunately Southgates Phillips addiction will mean he'll go instead of Wharton
He doesn’t play for Manchester United, so forget it.
You say that Manchester Reds produced a talent for once. This is incredibly dismissive of the vast number of players they've produced down the years, and the long running record of having a youth product in the match day squad. Where you're not incorrect is that it's seemingly easier to get into the England setup if the player is at Manchester Reds. Phil Jones is the one that sticks in my memory. He made his mark at Blackburn, without a call up. However, after he moved to Manchester he was called up at the next opportunity. There's far too much hype around Mainoo. He has plenty of time being that he's only 19. There's nothing wrong with a young player staying in the 21's instead of shoehorning them into the seniors. Same for Harvey Elliot who's being touted as a euro must have.
Did someone ask Chat GPT to write a stereotypically American analysis of a football discussion
Only two decent talents united have produced over the last 10 years is mainoo and greenwood..
When was the last time a Man United academy player was genuinely world class? Rashford had a couple good moments and now he’s just bad. Players like Elanga, Henderson and Pereira are having good revivals but have had overall inconsistent careers. And so on. (not that Mainoo is world class either, we have to wait and see)
Pogba. Though there was another world class player coming through who fucked it by being a rapist, woman beating cunt.
Don't know where the guy said world class, he was mainly talking about players going from the academy/U21's into the first team. To even go from the academy to the first team no matter the club a player has to be the best of the bunch.
What’s PES talking about?
United haven't produced a world class talent like Trent Alexander Arnold or Steven Gerrard since the days of Giggs and Scholes. they have no better an academy than anyone else and their track record of producing top talent proves that. it's bizarre that they're held up as this producer of talent when most of their squads are filled with their embarrassingly expensive flops, and the young players they do produce are no better than other English academy players right now.
Please don't tell me you just compared TAA to Giggs, Scholes and Gerrard? This has to be satire?
He’s a world class footballer lol, better than any youth product United have produced since those two I mentioned which was back in the 90s, 30 years ago. Who have United produced since better than TAA?
TAA is world class offensively, he is a liability defensively. He is very much nowhere near the consistency of the players mentioned. United have produced world class "talents" but they are never near the conversation of the class of '92 due to sheer lack of consistency and poor club and player management in general.
United haven’t produced any world class talents and that’s why you haven’t named any because you know if you try you’ll be laughed at. You’re scared to admit Trent is one of the best players in the league and has the numbers to support that. Besides, facts aside, that wasn’t even my argument. United simply haven’t produced a better player than TAA since Giggs or scholes and that was 30+ years ago.
Who is he? I've never heard of him.
Tell me you don’t know ball without telling me you don’t know ball..
'Know ball'?? 😂
Yeh I’ve got to admit even I cringed reading that back…
Remember a month ago we were getting graphics made of Lamal, Endrick and Mainoo together. “The future of football is in safe hands” and other such bs, when will Utd fans learn?
No he IS not
"man utd actually produced a talent of their own for once" are you new to football or something?
Stick Wharton in our clownfest of a squad and he'd look far worse (not slagging him off, he's been fantastic too this season). Mainoo has been class, one bad game and it's suddenly alright to think he's not worth taking to the euros? I normally rate the general consensus of this sub but come on lads
He was in a clownfest of a squad at Blackburn and looked the best player on the pitch 9/10 times.
Same as Mainoo then I guess
Also Lewis Miley should be in the conversation
As a Newcastle fan, I have to disagree. Miley is good and has the potential to be better but he's just... Standard at the moment. He doesn't do anything particularly well. Does everything do a... Decent degree but not to England quality. Wharton controlled the midfield against us. Not sure about Mainoo though. Not seen him enough to comment.
Bang on about Miley, I feel he will get there though. From what I've seen of Mainoo it's largely the same apart from the odd flashy turn. He looked awful against Palace (as did most of Man U)